brilliant (: myself and my dad have been following along your journey and it is so fascinating to watch and learn about this fantastic hobby, thank you for sharing and we look forward to the rest of this journey (:
Another good video. Happy that you are sharing your watchmaking journey. I see that you are wearing a dedicated mic but the audio seems low to me. I have the volume maxed on my tv and it’s still low. Don’t know if anyone else has noticed this?
I'm sorry about the audio! I'm still dialing it in... I'm using a DJI MIC. In an earlier video, I boosted its gain, which resulted in some clipping. So I set the gain back down and now no clipping (that I can hear) but it seems I undershot the acceptable audio level. (I find the audio aspects of making videos to be the most challenging. More than the video itself or lighting.) I think I need to up the gain from the wireless receiver into the laptop. That should be possible without introducing clipping. Thank you for mentioning this! I'll give this a try on the very next video.
Well done getting that mainspring fitted. I watched that video, but it seems my comment disappeared. If I still have the draft, I’ll repost it. It was mostly about parts interchangeability. 9415 is great for pallet stones, regardless of beat rate. I use it on both slow and high beat calibres, as do many other professionals. There is no need for 941 if you have 9415. It’s great for lubricating cylinder escapements, too. That roller jewel has been snapped. Watch jewels are very brittle, and this watch is old enough that it would contain natural ruby/sapphire jewels, which are more fragile than synthetic jewels. When installing the balance in the watch, you need to ensure that the roller jewel is oriented such that it can enter the pallet fork mouth. If the roller jewel is on the wrong side of the fork, it is trapped and the watch cannot run until you remove the balance and reinstall it with the jewel on the right side of the fork. In case you don’t know what I’m referring to, if you watch videos of this, you’ll see the watchmaker deliberately set the fork to one side, lower the balance into its jewel with the roller jewel on the correct side of the fork (according to which side they positioned the fork) and then rotate the movement so that the roller jewel enters the fork as the balance cock is seated. I strongly suspect you placed the balance back in the watch with the roller jewel on the wrong side of the pallet fork (ie ‘out of action’). Then you attempted to get the balance to oscillate, which slams the roller jewel against the outside of the pallet fork horns. The impact between the roller jewel and the outside of the fork will cause the balance will bounce off. The footage of you testing the balance in the watch at 5:30 onwards in the video seems to show the roller jewel initially out of action, trapped on the wrong side of the fork. The way the balance sits rigidly when you turn the movement (I’d expect it to oscillate a little) is a strong indication. The hairspring is trying to swing to its neutral position, but being prevented from doing so by the roller jewel hitting the outside of the fork, so the balance sits rigidly, with the roller jewel pushing against the outside of the fork. You try to get it oscillating with your tweezers and after each of the first couple of attempts the balance snaps back in the other direction after you flick it. This is due to you forcing the roller jewel into the outside of the fork, pushing it against the banking pin, so it bounces back, until the roller jewel snaps and then the balance oscillates freely, after the jewel has broken. Watchmakers do use tweezers, pegwood, or the tip of an oiler to move the balance wheel, but a safer and more gentle way, especially when learning, is to use a fine tipped artist’s paintbrush. Jewels are very brittle, especially in watches this old, the balance is heavier in an 18S watch, and the hairspring stronger to drive a heavier balance wheel. All this means it’s not difficult to snap a roller jewel in this manner. It is true that roller jewels are usually held in place by shellac, but Waltham went from using shellac to secure roller jewels (you’ll see a round hole for the jewel in the roller table) to friction fit roller jewels that used no shellac, which have a D shaped hole, as seen in your Granddad’s watch. There may be Walthams with an oversized D shaped hole that required shellac to fix the jewel, but I’ve never seen one. Once you’ve cleared out the hole in the roller table (with the roller removed from the staff), I suggest you check if the remnant of the roller jewel is a friction fit in the hole, or if it has sufficient play to necessitate shellac to hold it in place. Were there traces of shellac left on the roller table? Unless old shellac has been abused, it tends to remain intact and there should be some visible if there was some there originally. Ideally, you need a friction fit jewel to suit this watch. A jewel that is loose enough to be shellacked in place will be too narrow for the pallet fork. My first suggestion is to contact Dave’s Watch Parts and give him the serial number and grade of the watch. He may have the jewel, or a roller table with jewel. If you have to use a replacement roller table, there’s a good chance you’ll have to adjust the escapement to run well and with proper safety action - when this watch was made, the escapement parts were hand adjusted to eachother in every watch and aren’t necessarily interchangeable. That means you might have to adjust the safety dart, pallet stones and the banking pins. I agree that you should be fine to run a watch that wasn’t oiled perfectly if you’re going to clean and lubricate it again soon, but there’s one consequence of using too much oil that is overlooked. You can remove excess oil from the areas you can see it, but excess oil that has run down into the setting, between the jewel and pivot (as it should, whether you use the right amount or too much) will overflow from the jewel/pivot interface where it belongs, and run down the pivot. Once there’s enough oil for this to happen, the oil has a tendency to creep out from where it’s needed and by virtue of surface tension, the bearing is left dry, and the oil ends up where it isn’t welcome. If you use just the right amount of oil, it will be held in place by capillary action. Once it can run down the pivot away from the setting, then you end up with dry pivots in dry jewel as the oil migrates elsewhere. It takes a lot of practice to learn to oil well. You need to practice gathering the desired amount on your oiler, and you need to learn how much each pivot needs. Alex Hamilton’s channel has an excellent video demonstrating oiling, it is well worth watching. Thanks for the shoutout and feel free to hit me up for more information if/when you need it.
I've seen other UA-cam comments go AWOL. It's an odd and disturbing bug to have in a social networking service! I see your point about how the jewel snapped. That makes sense. Very sloppy of me!! Interesting information about maybe not needing shellac. I was mentally set up to learn-by-doing how to shellac a jewel but if that's not the right approach then obvs. I don't want to do it. I'll contact daveswatchparts today! I'm hesitant to adjust the movement because of non-interchangeability. I don't shy away from a challenge but everyone has their limits. That would be way beyond my comfort zone to the extent that even I would suck in a sharp breath. But I will take this one step at a time. I'll measure the existing jewel remnant vs. the hole and see if it friction fits, as you advise. I hear you about the lubrication. I didn't do a horrible job but I did a beginner's job. :-) I'll do it again in three months as I said (ok ok maybe in two months :-) ) In the meantime I'll be doing lubrication and reassembly of two other movements in class so by then I should be better at it. I thank you again for all your advice. You are a boulder among rocks!
Learning to set up or adjust a lever escapement so it runs properly is an incredibly important skill, and it’s surprising how many people who work on watches these days don’t know how to do it properly. I have no doubt that you can learn how to do it, and do it well, but you don’t want to learn on a full plate movement. You want to learn on a larger pocket watch with a 3/4 plate or finger bridge type architecture, because you need to be able to examine the interaction of the roller table with the safety dart, the roller jewel with the fork horns and the pallet stones with the escape wheel teeth. There’s a special tool for full plate watches called an escapement setup tool, which replaces the dial plate of the movement, and holds the lower pivots of the escape wheel and fork (and sometimes the balance staff) in moveable safety centres, to give you a clear view of everything, but these are hard to come by. As long as you can find a replacement roller jewel that fits your existing roller table, you won’t need to explore escapement setup/adjustment just yet.
One thing I forgot to write in my other comment. The correction you added calling the lever an English lever was incorrect and unnecessary. The difference between a Swiss lever escapement and an English lever escapement is the shape of the escape wheel teeth, not the layout or shape of the lever. A Swiss lever escapement has the club shaped teeth, like little feet, whereas an English lever escapement (or ratchet wheel escapement) has simple pointed teeth. Both Swiss and English lever escapements can be in a right angle or tangential layout, where the line between the balance wheel pivot and escape wheel pivot is at right angles to the line connecting the escape wheel pivot and the lever’s pivot. The Swiss lever escapement is also commonly seen in a straight line configuration, where the pivots for the balance wheel, escape wheel are collinear. While I’m explaining this terminology, it’s worth mentioning that whilst the terms lever/‘pallet fork’ get used very loosely these days, in the subject watch, the lever is the part that carries the pallets (the pallet jewels in their pallet frame), it has the fork and safety dart at the end that interacts with the roller.
brilliant (: myself and my dad have been following along your journey and it is so fascinating to watch and learn about this fantastic hobby, thank you for sharing and we look forward to the rest of this journey (:
Thanks! I with I had fewer mistakes and blunders and blind alleys to share. :-/
@@Oldguyponderingacareerch-ip9tf no worries (: its all part of the experience and apart of learning, you're doin great (: keep up the good work
Another good video. Happy that you are sharing your watchmaking journey. I see that you are wearing a dedicated mic but the audio seems low to me. I have the volume maxed on my tv and it’s still low. Don’t know if anyone else has noticed this?
I'm sorry about the audio! I'm still dialing it in...
I'm using a DJI MIC. In an earlier video, I boosted its gain, which resulted in some clipping. So I set the gain back down and now no clipping (that I can hear) but it seems I undershot the acceptable audio level. (I find the audio aspects of making videos to be the most challenging. More than the video itself or lighting.)
I think I need to up the gain from the wireless receiver into the laptop. That should be possible without introducing clipping.
Thank you for mentioning this! I'll give this a try on the very next video.
@
No problem. Understand this stuff is more difficult than it looks. Keep up the good work. 👍🏼
Big Dan, I posted a new video. Could I impose upon you to watch it and report on its audio levels?
Well done getting that mainspring fitted. I watched that video, but it seems my comment disappeared.
If I still have the draft, I’ll repost it. It was mostly about parts interchangeability.
9415 is great for pallet stones, regardless of beat rate. I use it on both slow and high beat calibres, as do many other professionals. There is no need for 941 if you have 9415.
It’s great for lubricating cylinder escapements, too.
That roller jewel has been snapped.
Watch jewels are very brittle, and this watch is old enough that it would contain natural ruby/sapphire jewels, which are more fragile than synthetic jewels.
When installing the balance in the watch, you need to ensure that the roller jewel is oriented such that it can enter the pallet fork mouth. If the roller jewel is on the wrong side of the fork, it is trapped and the watch cannot run until you remove the balance and reinstall it with the jewel on the right side of the fork.
In case you don’t know what I’m referring to, if you watch videos of this, you’ll see the watchmaker deliberately set the fork to one side, lower the balance into its jewel with the roller jewel on the correct side of the fork (according to which side they positioned the fork) and then rotate the movement so that the roller jewel enters the fork as the balance cock is seated.
I strongly suspect you placed the balance back in the watch with the roller jewel on the wrong side of the pallet fork (ie ‘out of action’).
Then you attempted to get the balance to oscillate, which slams the roller jewel against the outside of the pallet fork horns. The impact between the roller jewel and the outside of the fork will cause the balance will bounce off.
The footage of you testing the balance in the watch at 5:30 onwards in the video seems to show the roller jewel initially out of action, trapped on the wrong side of the fork.
The way the balance sits rigidly when you turn the movement (I’d expect it to oscillate a little) is a strong indication. The hairspring is trying to swing to its neutral position, but being prevented from doing so by the roller jewel hitting the outside of the fork, so the balance sits rigidly, with the roller jewel pushing against the outside of the fork.
You try to get it oscillating with your tweezers and after each of the first couple of attempts the balance snaps back in the other direction after you flick it. This is due to you forcing the roller jewel into the outside of the fork, pushing it against the banking pin, so it bounces back, until the roller jewel snaps and then the balance oscillates freely, after the jewel has broken.
Watchmakers do use tweezers, pegwood, or the tip of an oiler to move the balance wheel, but a safer and more gentle way, especially when learning, is to use a fine tipped artist’s paintbrush.
Jewels are very brittle, especially in watches this old, the balance is heavier in an 18S watch, and the hairspring stronger to drive a heavier balance wheel. All this means it’s not difficult to snap a roller jewel in this manner.
It is true that roller jewels are usually held in place by shellac, but Waltham went from using shellac to secure roller jewels (you’ll see a round hole for the jewel in the roller table) to friction fit roller jewels that used no shellac, which have a D shaped hole, as seen in your Granddad’s watch.
There may be Walthams with an oversized D shaped hole that required shellac to fix the jewel, but I’ve never seen one. Once you’ve cleared out the hole in the roller table (with the roller removed from the staff), I suggest you check if the remnant of the roller jewel is a friction fit in the hole, or if it has sufficient play to necessitate shellac to hold it in place.
Were there traces of shellac left on the roller table? Unless old shellac has been abused, it tends to remain intact and there should be some visible if there was some there originally.
Ideally, you need a friction fit jewel to suit this watch. A jewel that is loose enough to be shellacked in place will be too narrow for the pallet fork.
My first suggestion is to contact Dave’s Watch Parts and give him the serial number and grade of the watch. He may have the jewel, or a roller table with jewel.
If you have to use a replacement roller table, there’s a good chance you’ll have to adjust the escapement to run well and with proper safety action - when this watch was made, the escapement parts were hand adjusted to eachother in every watch and aren’t necessarily interchangeable.
That means you might have to adjust the safety dart, pallet stones and the banking pins.
I agree that you should be fine to run a watch that wasn’t oiled perfectly if you’re going to clean and lubricate it again soon, but there’s one consequence of using too much oil that is overlooked.
You can remove excess oil from the areas you can see it, but excess oil that has run down into the setting, between the jewel and pivot (as it should, whether you use the right amount or too much) will overflow from the jewel/pivot interface where it belongs, and run down the pivot.
Once there’s enough oil for this to happen, the oil has a tendency to creep out from where it’s needed and by virtue of surface tension, the bearing is left dry, and the oil ends up where it isn’t welcome.
If you use just the right amount of oil, it will be held in place by capillary action. Once it can run down the pivot away from the setting, then you end up with dry pivots in dry jewel as the oil migrates elsewhere.
It takes a lot of practice to learn to oil well. You need to practice gathering the desired amount on your oiler, and you need to learn how much each pivot needs.
Alex Hamilton’s channel has an excellent video demonstrating oiling, it is well worth watching.
Thanks for the shoutout and feel free to hit me up for more information if/when you need it.
I've seen other UA-cam comments go AWOL. It's an odd and disturbing bug to have in a social networking service!
I see your point about how the jewel snapped. That makes sense. Very sloppy of me!! Interesting information about maybe not needing shellac. I was mentally set up to learn-by-doing how to shellac a jewel but if that's not the right approach then obvs. I don't want to do it. I'll contact daveswatchparts today!
I'm hesitant to adjust the movement because of non-interchangeability. I don't shy away from a challenge but everyone has their limits. That would be way beyond my comfort zone to the extent that even I would suck in a sharp breath. But I will take this one step at a time. I'll measure the existing jewel remnant vs. the hole and see if it friction fits, as you advise.
I hear you about the lubrication. I didn't do a horrible job but I did a beginner's job. :-) I'll do it again in three months as I said (ok ok maybe in two months :-) ) In the meantime I'll be doing lubrication and reassembly of two other movements in class so by then I should be better at it.
I thank you again for all your advice. You are a boulder among rocks!
Learning to set up or adjust a lever escapement so it runs properly is an incredibly important skill, and it’s surprising how many people who work on watches these days don’t know how to do it properly.
I have no doubt that you can learn how to do it, and do it well, but you don’t want to learn on a full plate movement.
You want to learn on a larger pocket watch with a 3/4 plate or finger bridge type architecture, because you need to be able to examine the interaction of the roller table with the safety dart, the roller jewel with the fork horns and the pallet stones with the escape wheel teeth.
There’s a special tool for full plate watches called an escapement setup tool, which replaces the dial plate of the movement, and holds the lower pivots of the escape wheel and fork (and sometimes the balance staff) in moveable safety centres, to give you a clear view of everything, but these are hard to come by.
As long as you can find a replacement roller jewel that fits your existing roller table, you won’t need to explore escapement setup/adjustment just yet.
An update. The roller jewel *was* held in with shellac. I have microscope video proof that I'll put up later this week!
Success is measured by the ticks of a clock. ( I just made that up ). The only way you can remount the roller is try. Patience lad.
Thank you for your support. The last time I was called "lad" was sometime in 1974. :-) :-)
One thing I forgot to write in my other comment.
The correction you added calling the lever an English lever was incorrect and unnecessary.
The difference between a Swiss lever escapement and an English lever escapement is the shape of the escape wheel teeth, not the layout or shape of the lever.
A Swiss lever escapement has the club shaped teeth, like little feet, whereas an English lever escapement (or ratchet wheel escapement) has simple pointed teeth.
Both Swiss and English lever escapements can be in a right angle or tangential layout, where the line between the balance wheel pivot and escape wheel pivot is at right angles to the line connecting the escape wheel pivot and the lever’s pivot.
The Swiss lever escapement is also commonly seen in a straight line configuration, where the pivots for the balance wheel, escape wheel are collinear.
While I’m explaining this terminology, it’s worth mentioning that whilst the terms lever/‘pallet fork’ get used very loosely these days, in the subject watch, the lever is the part that carries the pallets (the pallet jewels in their pallet frame), it has the fork and safety dart at the end that interacts with the roller.
Thank you for the correction!