Dustin, I feel your tears.... What a miracle to see what our Heavenly Father Jehovah and his son Christ Jesus through Holy Spirit has accomplished through you men. I am very grateful that you, Daniel and Marg (through prayer) were put in my path a couple of years ago. What Satin wants to seal up and label as a Trinitarian mystery you have meticulously uncovered. Page by page and word by word you have given us the material we need, to ignite a passion FOR TRUTH in the hearts and minds of men.
The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Catholic Church, pp. 72,73 said, "The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father." By this confession, the church recognizes the Father as "the source and origin of the whole divinity"....The council of Florence in 1438 explains: "The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; ...He proceeds eternally from both as from one principle and through one spiration,... And since the Father has through generaton given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, exept being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son." For the Catholic Church, The "Father as the source of the whole divinity" because for them the Son is eternally born of the Father, and the origin of the Spirit in not unconnected with the Son's origin. Same teaching with your group
“But in the ordinance of baptism (according to the gospel commission), in which ordinance we take upon us the name of the God we worship, he is known as the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.... But when we are baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, as the true living God, our Creator, Preserver, and Saviour, we at once and forever renounce and separate ourselves from every kind and species of idolatry and false worship.” - E. Goodrich, “Baptism,” Review and Herald, March 16,1876, p.82
Thank you PHM for these presentations. I have been so blessed by the precious truths presented. Would it be possible to make available the original old copy of "Daniel and the Revelation" on your website so we can all study it too? God continue to bless your ministry.
The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Catholic Church, pp. 72,73 said, "The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father." By this confession, the church recognizes the Father as "the source and origin of the whole divinity"....The council of Florence in 1438 explains: "The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; ...He proceeds eternally from both as from one principle and through one spiration,... And since the Father has through generaton given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, exept being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son." For the Catholic Church, The "Father as the source of the whole divinity" because for them the Son is eternally born of the Father, and the origin of the Spirit in not unconnected with the Son's origin. Same teaching with your group
There is someone trying to tell me I'm wrong about what is true at the church I was going to. I sent her this video, i pray she sees truth! I can't wait to see you all in March for my baptismal! We cut all ties from the church
Joy, may I ask if you chose to leave or were you disfellowshipped? And if you chose to leave, what brought you to that point? I’m in the same boat.. I’ve been asked not to share my “ideas” as they are not the belief of the denomination.
The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Catholic Church, pp. 72,73 said, "The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father." By this confession, the church recognizes the Father as "the source and origin of the whole divinity"....The council of Florence in 1438 explains: "The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; ...He proceeds eternally from both as from one principle and through one spiration,... And since the Father has through generaton given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, exept being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son." For the Catholic Church, The "Father as the source of the whole divinity" because for them the Son is eternally born of the Father, and the origin of the Spirit in not unconnected with the Son's origin. Same teaching with your group
@@saults2577 the basis of this group is based on the so called "pioneers" here are some examples: “The Father was greater than the Son in that he was first. The Son was equal with the Father in that he had received all things from the Father.” (James White, Review and Herald, Jan. 4, 1881) 1889) “God alone is without beginning. At the earliest epoch when a beginning could be, - a period so remote that to finite minds it is essentially eternity, - appeared the Word. 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.' John 1:1. This uncreated Word was the Being, who, in the fullness of time, was made flesh, and dwelt among us. His beginning was not like that of any other being in the universe. It is set forth in the mysterious expressions, 'his [God's] only begotten Son' (John 3:16; 1 John 4:9), 'the only begotten of the Father' (John 1:14), and 'I proceeded forth and came from God.' John 8:42. Thus it appears that by some divine impulse or process, not creation, known only to Omniscience, and possible only to Omnipotence, the Son of God appeared. And then the Holy Spirit (by an infirmity of translation called 'the Holy Ghost'), the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the divine afflatus and medium of their power, representative of them both (Ps.139:7), was in existence also.” (Uriah Smith, Looking Unto Jesus, 1898, p. 10.1) I called this "big bang theology" because for this group "the Son of God appeared by some divine impulses or process" where can you find in the Word of God? They also claimed that Jesus Christ is the literal son of God in eternity past!- where can you find that in God's word? “Christ is the only literal Son of God. 'The only begotten of the Father.' John 1:14. He is God because he is the Son of God; not by virtue of His resurrection. If Christ is the only begotten of the Father, then we cannot be begotten of the Father in a literal sense. It can only be in a secondary sense of the word.” (John Matteson, Review and Herald, Oct. 12, 1869) Again Mr. John Matteson puts his own interpretation on John 1:14, then rejected the teaching of apostle Paul in Romans 1:3,4 NKJV- concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. For apostle Paul, He was declared Son of God by the resurrection from the dead, but for Mr. John Matteson "not by virtue of His resurrection." Who is right here? John Matteson or apostle Paul? Here is another explanation of apostle Paul (for me he is one of our Pioneers), let us read Acts 13: 28-34 NKJV- And though they found no cause for death in Him, they asked Pilate that He should be put to death. Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb. But God raised Him from the dead. He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. And we declare to you glad tidings-that promise which was made to the fathers. God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.’ And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: ‘I will give you the sure mercies of David.’ Apostle Paul said, "And we declare to you glad tidings-that promise which was made to the fathers. God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.’ The context is about resurrection connecting the passage to the book of second Psalm. Therefore the bible is right and not your so called pioneers. Proverbs 30:5,6 Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
Even seasoned theologians often make mistakes in the translation and interpretation of the first verse of the Bible. The first mistake interpreters make is answering the question: “What is “in the beginning?” Many answer it this way: “in the beginning” - this is at the beginning of time. And, speaking of the beginning, they mean the adverb of time, answering the question “When did God create heaven and earth?” Therefore, if this question is incorrectly posed, then the answer will be erroneous. When? At first. If there was no space and time yet, then the questions “when?” and where?" are simply ridiculous in themselves. Because “when” - there is no countdown of time yet, and “where” - there is no place where creation would take place. In Hebrew, articles, prepositions and conjunctions are written together with the part of speech to which they relate (noun, adjective, verb, etc.). When a preposition is written together with a noun, it puts this noun in the required case. The first word בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית “bereshit”, which sounds in our translation as “in the beginning”, is written together and consists of two parts: the noun “decides” and the preposition “be”. If translated literally according to the rules of Hebrew grammar, it would answer the Prepositional case question “in what?” in whom?”, and carry the meaning “at the beginning (beginning - as a noun).” Since we know that this is not an adverb, Jewish grammar allows us to translate it in another way, which does not contradict the first meaning: “through the beginning” (by whom? with what?), - the noun is in the instrumental case. Thus, the logical conclusion suggests itself that the beginning is not a time moment and not a place in which creation begins, but a certain person, a subject in which and by whom God created heaven and earth. (equivalent to the New Testament “in Christ” (Prev. Fall) “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away, everything has become new (2 Cor. 5:17). From here we come to a correct understanding of the first word of the Bible and how this verse and the first word were understood by the apostles: “The beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1. see 1:14) . John writes his Gospel, realizing that we are talking not about time or place, but about the Person through whom everything was created: “The beginning was the Word.” The beginning was Jesus, the promised Messiah. Before His incarnation, Jesus was the true Creator, the true Word (Aramic - Mamra - this is how the Jews of Jesus' time understood the Messiah). In Revelation 3:14, John continues the theme of the Beginning: “And to the angel of the church of Laodicea write: Thus says the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the Beginning of the creation of God.” And in the last chapter of the Bible, he writes: “I am Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last” (Rev. 22:13). This corresponds to the logic of the entire Holy Scripture, so that the Name of God, as the First Cause of all things, should be the first word in the Bible, because He himself called Himself “Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.” David writes: “For You have magnified Your Word above every Name of Yours” (Ps. 137:2) “By the Word of the Lord the heavens were made, and by the breath of His mouth all their host:” (Ps. 33:6) Then the first verse of the Bible would be correctly translated as follows: “Someone named “BEGINNING” created the angels, heaven and earth.” Of course it's Jesus! The Promised Messiah!
“But in the ordinance of baptism (according to the gospel commission), in which ordinance we take upon us the name of the God we worship, he is known as the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.... But when we are baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, as the true living God, our Creator, Preserver, and Saviour, we at once and forever renounce and separate ourselves from every kind and species of idolatry and false worship.” - E. Goodrich, “Baptism,” Review and Herald, March 16,1876, p.82
Bro. The presentation is very well done! I am having trouble we finding the resource of AT Jones you used as reading through his writing I can't find anything to confirm his beliefs in the Trinity I just read a paper written in July 1897 on Christian Education where he notes the Spirit as Christ's spirit
Dear Elizabeth, Thank you for commenting. We hope this was a blessing to you. Here is the quote from the sermon which is taken from "The Christian Church" by A. T. Jones 1907. 1907 AT Jones (The Christian Church) And the Holy Spirit is a Person. This great truth is not recognized, indeed, it is not believed, by more than a very few even of Christians. For everybody knows that almost invariably, with very, very few exceptions, the Holy Spirit is referred to and spoken of by Christians as “it.” But the word “it” never applies to a person. The word “it,” in the very genius of our language refers and applies to only things, never to persons; to things of inanimate substance, as a stone, a house, a tree; or to things of concept or experience, as space, height, breadth, peace, joy, grief, an impression, an influence. But the Holy Spirit is none of these: the Holy Spirit is not an influence, nor an impression, nor peace, nor joy, nor any thing. The Holy Spirit gives peace, and gives joy, assuages grief, makes an impression, exerts an influence; but the Holy Spirit is none of these things, nor any other thing. No, eternally, no! The Holy Spirit is a Person, eternally a divine Person. And he must be always recognized and spoken of as a Person, or he is not truly recognized or spoken of at all. The Christian Church 201-202 Also, Here is a link to the entire book: revelation.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Jones-The-Christian-Church.pdf Ellen White also wrote the following: 1908 EGW to Haskell about AT Jones We did not see anything to encourage us in the hope that Elder Jones is coming out from the darkness that is upon him. He feels that he understands himself; but he is as the blind and is feeling about, to know what step to take next. I felt that I must speak plainly to him. I told him that notwithstanding the warnings that had been given regarding Dr. Kellogg’s influence over him, he had gone into the very path he had been cautioned not to take; he had not spiritual discernment to understand the doctor’s religious standing. I told him that he had become Dr. Kellogg’s voice to the people. Lt234-1908.6
Thank you for the clear understanding of the holy spirit, for years I have always wondered and prayed to understand, now I thank God the Father for this blessing, amen. an SDA member, listening from Sydney Australia
Ezekiel ch. 1 describes the Trinity. Where the Father goes, Son and the also goes. Ezekiel's vision of wheel within wheel described the presence of the Father, the Son and the Sprit.
Does it make any difference in the understanding of what God is, when you consider *when* Jesus the Word/Emanuel, was begotten? This was at His Incarnation, not before. This is also when that part of God that stayed in heaven became the Father (so to speak). *God is an entity* that has from eternity past been comprised of God who became a Father, and the Word which became the Son, and the Holy Spirit *which they have always shared*. These three are who and what GOD is, always have been, and always will be. That is just One God in my way of thinking. All man-made definitions and labels are not completely satisfactory to describe the I AM. They are merely constructs/mechanisms we use to speak about a GOD that is undefinable with human words. We pray to the Father, in the name of His Son, and "the Spirit maketh intercession for us with groanings that cannot be uttered." What about that can any Christian not agree with? Do you not all agree that there might always be some element of semantics related to this topic? What is wrong with letting some people hold to a slightly different choice of words to define the undefinable? Why does that rise to the level of breaking communion with the Seventh-Day Adventists? Is this the only thing that separates the SDCR from the SDA's theologically?
Trinitarianism is polytheism I’m trying to masquerade as a monotheism. They have to turn God from a person into a state of being that three people can share in.
Trinity is Bible's doctrine. You people believe not the trinity mean you are denying the Christ and the Holy Spirit. When you are baptized, you are introduced to 3 entities: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Thus, you are baptized. Trinity in the Bible In heaven and on earth, two witness are required as proof. Here are the two witnesses who testifies for trinity: 1. Matthew 28:19. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" Three entities mentioned here: The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost 2. 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." Here also three entities mentioned: The Father, The Word (The Son) and The Holy Ghost QUESTION: ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN? ARE YOU BAPTIZED CHRISTIAN? If so, you believe trinity doctrine. When you are baptized you have been introduced the Three Heads of God, the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY GHOST. Pastor says, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost." All Christian churches believe in Trinity, knowing or unknowing, and therefore they baptize or be baptized in the name the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. ONE WHO DENY TRINITY, HE DENIES THE SON. "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father; he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also". (1 John 2:23)
Alpha of Apostasy from Kellogg. I thought Froom was the Omega by his book about the Holy Spirit and Questions on Doctrine. Books of a new order that changed SDA religion. B. G. Wilkinson said Leroy Froom was the most dangerous man in Adventism. Now our Conference follows these heresies. I stand on the platform laid by our Master Builder! This is the true church. SDA Conference has apostitized. The head has become the tail.
Hello, This is Dustin Butler. I am not a pastor, just a bible student and elder. Please respond with your email and I will contact you directly. Thank you for reaching out to me.
I'm amazed the way my church is trying to speak about God from the voice of H.W. and you guys shall believe when she says "THE BIBLE AND ONLY THE BIBLE" , The BIBLE has all the information and more about God,Jesus,and God spirit, we shall go back to the truth only in the BIBLE. obey God
EGW wrote always IT. Heavenly Trio is also not from her! "As to any special controversy, or agitation, over the matter of the Trinity, I cannot recall anything serious at all. Of course I have always known that Elder Uriah Smith was an Arian in belief, (‘Thoughts on Daniel and the Revelation’ reveal that!) and that our people undoubtedly generally followed that view. But we, as a family, had been brought up in the Church of England, and were naturally, may I say, Trinitarians. We just believed it, subconsciously, and I do not remember our ever discussing the question with the brethren who brought us into the Truth, Elder M. C. Israel, and young brother W. L. H. Baker. ONE THING I DO RECALL IS MY MOTHER’S REMARKING ON THE STRANGE LANGUAGE USED BY OUR MINISTERS IN SPEAKING OF THE HOLY GHOST AS ‘IT’ AND ‘ITS’ AS THOUGH THEY THOUGHT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AS AN INFLUENCE, INSTEAD OF AS A PERSON. THAT SEEMED VERY STRANGE TO HER, AND IN A MEASURE TO ME ALSO (I was about 17 then).” {H. C. Lacey letter to LeRoy Froom Aug. 30, 1945} All Adventists have used IT and not HE for holy Spirit! Also EGW. After her death they changed all to HE. Just Dr. Kellog and A.T. Jones after his FALL used HE. Heavenly Trio is also falsificated! „I am sorry for A. T. Jones, who has been warned over and over again. Notwithstanding these warnings, he has allowed the enemy to fill his mind with thoughts of self-importance. Heed not his words, for he has rejected the plainest light and has chosen darkness instead. The Holy One hath given us messages clear and distinct, but some poor souls have been blinded by the falsehoods and the deceptive influences of satanic agencies and have turned from truth and righteousness to follow these fallacies of satanic origin.“ {EGW Ms 39, 1906.5} „We did not see anything to encourage us in the hope that Elder Jones is coming out from the darkness that is upon him. He feels that he understands himself; but he is as the blind and is feeling about to know what step to take next. I felt that I must speak plainly to him. I told him that notwithstanding the warnings that had been given regarding Dr. KELLOG INFLUENCE over him, he had gone into the very path he had been cautioned not to take; he had not spiritual discernment to understand the doctor’s religious standing. I told him that he had become Dr. Kellogg’s VOICE to the people.“ {Ellen White, Lt 234, 1908.5} „And the holy Spirit is a person. This great truth is NOT recognized, indeed it is not believed, by more than a very few even of Christians. For everybody knows that almost invariably, with very, very few exceptions, the holy Spirit is referred to and spoken of by Christians as IT.” But the word “it” never applies to a person. The word “it,” in the very genius of our language, refers and applies only to things, never to persons; to things of inanimate substance, as a stone, a horse, a tree; or to things of concept, or experience, as space, height, breadth, peace, joy, grief, an impression, an influence. But the holy Spirit is none of these: the holy Spirit is not an influence; nor an impression, nor peace, nor joy, nor any thing. The holy Spirit gives peace, and gives joy, assuages in grief, makes an impression, exerts an influence; but the holy Spirit is none of these things, nor any other thing. No, eternally no! The holy Spirit is a Person, eternally a divine Person. And he must be always recognised and spoken of as a Person, or he is not truly recognised or spoken of at all.“ {A.T. Jones The Christian Church, 1907, p. 201-202} {@t ( Internet p. 95, p. 96,- und p. 97} “He (Dr. Kellog) told me that he now believed in God the Father, God the Son, and God the holy Ghost; and his view was that it was God the holy Ghost, and not God the Father, that filled all space, and every living thing.” {Letter by A. G. Daniells to W. C. White on October 29, 1903 p. 1+2} „I am sorry for A. T. Jones, who has been warned over and over again. Notwithstanding these warnings, he has allowed the enemy to fill his mind with thoughts of self-importance. Heed not his words, for he has rejected the plainest light and has chosen darkness instead. The Holy One hath given us messages clear and distinct, but some poor souls have been blinded by the falsehoods and the deceptive influences of satanic agencies and have turned from truth and righteousness to follow these fallacies of satanic origin.“ {EGW Ms 39, 1906.5} HE, instead of IT was falsificated after her death! „Message after message has come to me from the Lord concerning the dangers surrounding you and Elder Prescott. I have seen that satan would have been greatly pleased to see Elders Prescott and Daniells undertake the work of a general overhauling of our books that have done a good work in the field for years. But neither of you is called of God to that work.…I have been instructed that the Lord is not the author of the proposal to make many changes in books already published." {Ellen White, Lt 70 - 1910-2+15} Heavenly Trio is falsificated and broth after her death. Look those two texts: completely incompatible! “There are three LIVING persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the holy Spirit- those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ. . . “ {"Ellen White": Testimonies for the Church, Series B, No. 7, 63, 1905. Evangelism, p. 615} TRUTH: “...it is God, the ONLY true and LIVING God, to whom our worship and reverence are due. ...Let the brightest example the world has yet seen be your example, rather than the greatest and most learned men of the age, who know not God, nor Jesus Christ whom he has sent. The Father and the Son alone are to be exalted.” {Ellen White: YI, July 7, 1898 par. 2} Also 1. Thessalonik 1, 9.10 Revelation 7, 2.3 Matthias 16.16 It is just one of many proofs, that those FEW texts with Trio are all falsificated, to have "proof" that trinity would be "truth".. „Whatever wrong construction may be placed upon my testimony by those who profess righteousness, yet know not God, I shall in humility go forward with my work“ {Ellen White: SM1 p. 73} „Satan has worked upon human minds, and will continue to betray sacred trust in a spurious way.“ {Ellen White: SM Book 1 p. 57} ELLEN WHITE WAS AGAINST TRINITY! “But after catechizing us upon the trinity, and finding that we were not sound upon the subject of his triune god, he became earnest in denouncing unitarianism, which takes from Christ his divinity, and leaves him but a man. Here, as far as our views were concerned, he was combating a man of straw. We do not deny the divinity of Christ. [..] We believe him to be the divine person addressed by Jahveh in the words, " Let us make man." He was with the Father before the world was. [..] We have NOT as much sympathy with Unitarians that deny the divinity of Christ, as with TRINITARIANS who hold that the Son is the eternal Father, and talk so mistily about the three-one God. Give the Master all that divinity with which the Holy Scriptures clothe him.“ {ELLEN WHITE, Review and Herald, 6. June, 1871, p. 196, Western Tour} {@t
The "Trinity" doctrine held by most Christians in the early part of the 19th century - that one entity morphed between being the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, was rightly rejected by our early Adventist forefathers. . The term "Trinity" today is not held to have the same meaning. It would have saved much trouble if our SDA Church had stayed with the biblical word "Godhead", and not used this problematic word infused with Catholic theology - "Trinity".
Read Desire of Ages pages 671, 21-22, Testimonies to Ministers p 392, Reflecting Christ p129 , 285,133, Counsels on Health p222, and Steps to Christ p 21. I could give other quotes ,from Ellen White, but many more verses from the Bible in my book, "The Godhead."
Leaving out facts is not fair. The book Evangelism pages 614 to 617 by Ellen White who says that the Father is fully God, Christ is fully God, the Holy Spirit is fully God.
The pioneers nor Ellen White tgought the Holy Spirit was a person, although some of the verbage could be misunderstood if you aren't looking at thw big picture or studing everything she has to say on the subject. The Bible calls a lampstand "he" (Exodus 25:32) so we can't go by that alone.
Evangelism, p. 616: "We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds."--Manuscript 66, 1899. (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.) "The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. When this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we believe and are sure that we are the children of God. . . . " "The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."--Manuscript 20, 1906. "The prince of the power of evil can only be held in check by the power of God in the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit."--Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 10, p. 37. (1897) "We are to co-operate with the three highest powers in heaven,--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, --and these powers will work through us, making us workers together with God."--Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, p. 51. (1905)
BIBLE SAYS, THERE ARE THREE: I believe in Trinity because the following 3 texts: 1 John 5:7 - "For there are THREE that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD (THE SON), and the HOLY GHOST: and these three are ONE." 2. Matthew 28:19 - "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the HOLY GHOST:" ***When Jesus mention about THREE, why should not I believe? 3. Matthew 3:16, 17 - (16)"As soon as Jesus (SON) was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God (HOLY GHOST) descending like a dove and alighting on him." (17) "And a voice (VOICE OF THE FATHER) from heaven said, 'This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.'” These three verses prove the THREE HEADS OF GOD. THEY ARE ONE IN UNITY. It is not an invention of the Catholic church.
Honesty is the best policy. @13:10 of the video, Dustin should have continued with the quote... SADLY he did NOT. This is the Trinity that JNL referred to : These positions we will remark upon briefly in their order. And 1. It is not very consonant with common sense to talk of three being one, and one being three. Or as some express it, calling God “the Triune God,” or “the three-one-God.” If Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are each God, it would be three Gods; for three times one is not one, but three. There is a sense in which they are one, >>but not one person, as claimed by Trinitarians.
Thank you for taking the time to write a comment. This is a really big topic and I am sorry that you perceive that I intentionally left information out. If you will notice JNA is not quoting trinitarians but rather drawing logical conclusions from the words and phrases that they actually do use. This continues in our day. President Ted Wilson routinely uses the phrase “God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit”. Wilson’s phrasing which is also used by many others more than just implies that there are three Gods. This does not fit the official Trinitarian position. To accomplish this he should rightly say “The person of the Father, the person of the Son, and the person of the Holy Spirit which comprise one God.” But instead, the fundamental beliefs are self contradicting according to common sense. Each is called God as an individual. This also contradicts scripture. If God is made up of three then John 17:3 makes no sense if we take it as it reads. “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” The bottom line for me is that if the church would have restrained themselves to using biblical language they would not have found themselves in the mess that they are currently in regarding the personality of God. Responding to a question on the Trinity, Wilson referred to the Scriptures and the writings of Ellen White as he affirmed, “God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit have been together from eternity and will be together through eternity. . . . They work in complete harmony . . . they are the Godhead. They cannot work in opposition to each other. Yes, they have specific roles, but they work in perfect unity and harmony.” Ted Wilson Addresses Questions on the Campus of Andrews University AR MARCH 8, 2019 The Bible does not use such confusing language and neither does Ellen White. In describing the meaning of Mat. 28:19 she states the following. Note her parenthetical explanations.: Before He left them, Christ gave His followers a positive promise that after His ascension He would send them the Holy Spirit. “Go, ye therefore,” He said, “and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father (a personal God) and of the Son (a personal Prince and Saviour), and of the Holy Ghost (sent from heaven to represent Christ); teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you; and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.” [Matthew 28:19, 20.] Ms41-1897 Here are some more quotes from SDA scholars and writers who use the term being which is synonymous with person by definition. We do not believe in three Gods but ‘one God in three persons.’ In other words, God has revealed his nature as Trinity, that is, three coeternal and coequal persons, who, though distinct, constitute the ‘ONE DIVINE TRINITARIAN BEING.’“ - Ekkehardt Mueller “Our God,” 2008 BRI “Given Adventists’ commitment to biblical inspiration, the inability of human reason to describe the inner structure of God’s being should not distract from the fact that ‘in Scripture God has revealed His transcendent nature as Trinity, namely three distinct divine Persons who act directly and historically in history and ‘constitute the one divine Trinitarian being’” Kwabena Donkor (Assoc. Dir. BRI), God in Three Persons "The most we can say is that in Genesis we find, ‘within the intradivine being,’ ‘the one God,’ a plurality of persons that through further divine revelation will be identified as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" Angel Rodriguez (Assoc. Dir. BRI), Adventist World, April 2017 God is one, but that one name, Ha-Shem, is shared by three (see Matt 28:19). ‘One being’ but three persons is the language we use" Paul Petersen, "God in Three Persons - in the New Testament," BRI May 2015 I only wish that we could agree to use inspired language in our doctrinal statements then the conflict regarding the personality of God would virtually disappear.
@@dustinbutler6571 I appreciate the dialogue. I see here that, from the 1828 Websters Dictionary : ( Pertaining to humans and the Godhead. ) BEING, n. Existence; as, God is the author of our being. 1. A particular state or condition. [This is hardly a different sense.] 2.>> A person existing
the quote from Joshua Himes about the millerites becoming non-trinitarian in 1835 IS a TOTAL MISQUOTATION i read that quote myself from its original source and he was NOT talking about the millerite adventists at all whatsoever.
So what. Just because pagans did something first does it mean other people can’t use them. Just because they were the first to decorate a tree doesn’t mean that we can’t use it. Where is that written?
@@Sirach144 " (Jeremiah 10:3-5), God describes some of their idolatrous customs. They cut a tree from the forest, shaped it with an ax and overlaid it with precious metals. Although this account is specifically referring to the making of an idol (Jeremiah 10:6-8), God's command, 'Do not learn the way of the Gentiles,' applies to all pagan customs. Christmas trees, mistletoe and colorful lights that come from pagan winter-solstice celebrations, rabbits and Easter eggs as fertility symbols, and demonic concepts at Halloween, all fit this prohibition"
Ellen G. White repeatedly affirms that the Holy Spirit is a Person: The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. . . . The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God.l The Holy Spirit is presented in the writings of Ellen G. White as God, not an inferior emanation from the Deity, but in every sense God, as are Christ and the Father: The prince of the power of evil can only be held in check by the tower of God in the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit. (2) Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. It is the Spirit that makes effectual what has been wrought out by the world’s Redeemer. (3) The Holy Spirit is not spoken of as a subordinate representative, a tool used by the Father and the Son. As is Christ so is the Holy Spirit the "fullness of the Godhead:" The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven is the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons in the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and those powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their effort to live the new life of Christ. (4) ENDNOTES 1 E. G. White, Evangelism (Washington, D. C.: Review and Herald Publishing Association, l946), pp. 616, 617. Citing Manuscript 20, 1906. 2 lbid., p. 617. Citing Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 10, p. 37. (l897) 3 E. G. White, The Desire of Ages (Mountain View, Cal.: Pacific Press Publishing Association, l898), p. 671. 4 White, op. cit., pp. 614 6l5. Citing Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (l905).
Of course the Holy Spirit is a person, it is the spirit of Christ. As SDA's we know that a spirit is never separated from its owner, that would be spiritualism. "The Lord is soon to come. We want that complete and perfect understanding which the Lord alone can give. It is not safe to catch the spirit from another. We want the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ." Letter 66- 1894.18 " The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, which is sent to all men to give them sufficiency, that through His grace we might be complete in Him." 14 MR p. 84 "The juices of the vine, ascending from the root, are diffused to the branches sustaining growth and producing blossoms and fruit. So the life-giving power of the Holy Spirit, proceeding from Christ, and imparted to every disciple, pervades the soul..." SOP, vol 3, p. 418, 1878 "The influence of the Holy Spirit is the life of Christ in the soul." MR vol 4, p. 332, 1896
@@disccattopdog9134 "The Holy Spirit is Christ’s representative, but divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally. Therefore it was for their interest that He should go to the Father, and send the Spirit to be His successor on earth. No one could then have any advantage because of his location or his personal contact with Christ. By the Spirit the Saviour would be accessible to all. In this sense He would be nearer to them than if He had not ascended on high."-The Desire of Ages, 669. {ChS 255.3}
@@Nirky I couldn't agree more. I love this quote. Since we know without a doubt that the Holy Spirit is Christ Himself in spirit form, this quote helps us confirm that fact. One can only "divest" what has been vested. The only being ever vested with humanity was Christ. Therefore He is the only being ever "divested of humanity". The original source for the DA quote you shared is found in a Review & Herald article, November 19, 1908, Art. B. This article in its entirety is clearer than the portion included in DA. Incidently, Ellen clearly switches back & forth between using Christ (The Father's Annointed) & the Holy Spirit (of Christ, the spirit of the Annointed High Priest). The sanctuary proves that there is only one High Priest who has to be a human.There is only one mediator between God & men, the man Christ Jesus. "By the spirit the Father and the Son will come and make Their abode with you." The Bible Echo, Jan 15, 1893, par. 8 "The impartation of the spirit is the impartation of the life of Christ." DA, p. 805 (nobody else's life). "Christ gives them the breath of His own spirit, the life of His own life. The Holy Spirit puts forth its highest energies to work in the heart and mind." DA, p. 827 "While Jesus ministers in the sanctuary above, He is by His spirit the minister of the church on earth. He is withdrawn from the eye of sense, but His parting promise is fulfilled, "Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world." Mat 20:12. While He delegates His power to inferior ministers, His energizing presence is still with His church." DA, p. 166 There is clearly no unbiblical God the Holy Spirit being spoken of here. Blessings
The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Catholic Church, pp. 72,73 said, "The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father." By this confession, the church recognizes the Father as "the source and origin of the whole divinity"....The council of Florence in 1438 explains: "The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; ...He proceeds eternally from both as from one principle and through one spiration,... And since the Father has through generaton given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, exept being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son." For the Catholic Church, The "Father as the source of the whole divinity" because for them the Son is eternally born of the Father, and the origin of the Spirit in not unconnected with the Son's origin. Same teaching with your group
One month and nobody answers your question. Unfortunately the people here have been led by the deceiver to believe Jesus was created. YES Jesus is God and has been with the Father from the beginning. John 1:1 Jesus has no beginning of days. Heb 7:3 Believe the word of God!
Hebrews 1:8 {the Father calls Jesus God} But unto the Son he {God } saith, Thy throne, O God {Theos}, is, forever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom. The Holy Spirit applies this to Jesus in (Hebrews) and to The Father in (Psalm 45:6). Psalm 45:6 Your throne, O God, will last, forever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. Deuteronomy 6:13-14 {Holy Spirit said worship only God.} "You shall fear only the LORD your God; and you shall worship Him and swear by His name. “You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you, Luke 4:8 {Jesus reminds satan only God is to be worshiped} And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve. Hebrews 1:6 {the Father tells the angels to worship Jesus} And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world he {God} saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Daniel 7:13-14, (The Father decrees all will worship him) In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.” Matthew 28:17 {Apostles worship Jesus} Luke 24:52 And when they saw him, they worshiped him: And they worshiped him. John 20:28, 29 {Thomas calls Jesus God}{ o Kurios mou kai o Theos mou } the definite article. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ· ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου …..Does Jesus correct Thomas? No, he calls him blessed. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. Romans 9:5 {The Holy Spirit thru Paul calls Jesus GOD} Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen…NIV I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles believed on in the world, received up into glory. Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Titus 2:13 Titus 3:4-7 Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior Philippians 2:5-7 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of man: John 1:1, 2,3,14 {The Holy Spirit thru John calls Jesus God} In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word . Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος. En arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton Theon kai theos en ho Logos He was in [the] beginning with God. All things through him came into being, and without him came into being not even one [thing] which has come into being. And the Word flesh became, and tabernacled among us, John 1:9-10 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. Acts 20:28 {The Holy Spirit thru Luke calls Jesus God} Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 2 Peter 1:1 {The Holy Spirit thru Peter calls Jesus God} Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours: 2 Peter 1:11 "for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.," 2 Peter 2:20 "For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first," 2 Peter 3:18 "but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen," Jude 4,5 (The Holy Spirit thru Jude calls Jesus God) For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. Isaiah 7:14 {The Holy Spirit thru the prophets calls Jesus God} Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Matthew 1:23 (The Holy Spirit thru Matthew defines the name Immanuel, Jesus is GOD} Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Revelation 1:8, 22:13, 16 (Jesus claims to be GOD) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end the first and the last… I JESUS have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. Matthew 4:7 (after satan tempts Jesus, Jesus states) Jesus said to him again, 'It hath been written, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.' Exodus 3:13-14 (the Father states he is I AM THAT I AM) And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, what is his name? What shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. John 8:58 10:30-36 {John states Jesus said he is I AM} Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. And Yet God is one Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all ? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Deuteronomy 5:7 You shall have no other gods before me. So who is HE? ua-cam.com/video/2OoUvneyE5Q/v-deo.html Psalm 119:18 Open my eyes to see wonderful things in your Word. In His service,
Isaiah 42:8 48:11-12 {God will never give his glory} I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, and I will not give my glory unto another. I am he; I am the first, I also am the Last. Revelation 1: 8 (He is the first and the last the beginning and the end the Alpha and Omega) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was and which is to come, the Almighty. Philippians 2:5-7 {of what did he empty himself} Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation (emptied), and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of man: {The Greek reads as follows} Who in form of God subsisting not rapinesteemed it to be equal with god; John 14:28 {Jesus in human form occupies a lower position then the Father} "You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.'"
Hebrews 2:9 {Jesus Humbled himself while walking among us} But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone Galatians 4:4 {Jesus is born as a human} But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, until that time he assumed his correct position in heaven. John 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will, but the will of Him who sent me.” Colossians 1:19 {Yet he was still GOD} For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, Colossians 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Deity bodily., ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς Θεότητος σωματικῶς …This indicates most unequivocally the full divinity of Jesus Christ, for neither any man, even the godliest one, nor any angel, even the highest in angelic hierarchy can contain the "fullness" or "entirety" of Divinity. There is no human word that embodies the very essence of the Divine Being which dwells in Jesus. John 14:9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
To behold Jesus was to see GOD John 17:5 {God gives Jesus his glory back} {of his right to exercise his deity} And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Matthew 28:18 {which he takes up after the resurrection} And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, all power {authority} is given (surrendered) unto me in heaven and in earth. Revelation 1: 11-14, 22:13, 16 {Jesus assumes his correct position as GOD} Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: … And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;… And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; I am Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End the First and the Last… >> have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. Revelation 1:17-18 {the Holy Spirit thru John states Jesus is the First and the Last?} And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, fear not; I am the first and last: I am he that liveth, and was…………….. Dead, and, behold, I am alive for evermore, A-men; and have the keys of hell and of death John 1:1, 2,3,14 {The Holy Spirit states Jesus is God} In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word . Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος. En arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton Theon kai theos en ho Logos And the Word flesh became, and tabernacled among us, Matthew 1:23 (The Holy Spirit thru Matthew calls Jesus GOD} Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Isaiah 7:14 {The Holy Spirit calls Jesus God} Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. …..When did the First and the Last (GOD), the Beginning and the End (GOD), the Alpha and Omega (GOD) taste death? Matthew 26:53 (Jesus was obedient to what was prophesied) Are you not aware that I can call on My Father, and He will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen this way?”… Daniel 7:13-14, (Daniel saw the Son of Man approaching the Father) In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, . His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.” Deuteronomy 6:13-14 {Holy Spirit said worship only God.} "You shall fear only the LORD your God; and you shall worship Him and swear by His name. “You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you, Luke 4:8 {Jesus reminds satan only God is to be worshiped} And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve. ua-cam.com/video/2OoUvneyE5Q/v-deo.html And Yet God is one Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all ? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Psalm 119:18 Open my eyes to see wonderful things in your Word. In His Service,
the basis of this group is based on the so called "pioneers" here are some examples: “The Father was greater than the Son in that he was first. The Son was equal with the Father in that he had received all things from the Father.” (James White, Review and Herald, Jan. 4, 1881) “God alone is without beginning. At the earliest epoch when a beginning could be, - a period so remote that to finite minds it is essentially eternity, - appeared the Word. 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.' John 1:1. This uncreated Word was the Being, who, in the fullness of time, was made flesh, and dwelt among us. His beginning was not like that of any other being in the universe. It is set forth in the mysterious expressions, 'his [God's] only begotten Son' (John @; 1 John 4:9), 'the only begotten of the Father' (John @), and 'I proceeded forth and came from God.' John @. Thus it appears that by some divine impulse or process, not creation, known only to Omniscience, and possible only to Omnipotence, the Son of God appeared. And then the Holy Spirit (by an infirmity of translation called 'the Holy Ghost'), the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the divine afflatus and medium of their power, representative of them both (Ps.139:7), was in existence also.” (Uriah Smith, Looking Unto Jesus, 1898, p. 10.1) I called this "big bang theology" because for this group "the Son of God appeared by some divine impulses or process" where can you find in the Word of God? They also claimed that Jesus Christ is the literal son of God in eternity past!- where can you find that in God's word? “Christ is the only literal Son of God. 'The only begotten of the Father.' John @. He is God because he is the Son of God; not by virtue of His resurrection. If Christ is the only begotten of the Father, then we cannot be begotten of the Father in a literal sense. It can only be in a secondary sense of the word.” (John Matteson, Review and Herald, Oct. 12, 1869) Again Mr. John Matteson puts his own interpretation on John @, then rejected the teaching of apostle Paul in Romans 1:3,4 NKJV- concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. For apostle Paul, He was declared Son of God by the resurrection from the dead, but for Mr. John Matteson "not by virtue of His resurrection." Who is right here? John Matteson or apostle Paul? Here is another explanation of apostle Paul (for me he is one of our Pioneers), let us read Acts 13: 28-34 NKJV- And though they found no cause for death in Him, they asked Pilate that He should be put to death. Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb. But God raised Him from the dead. He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. And we declare to you glad tidings-that promise which was made to the fathers. God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.’ And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: ‘I will give you the sure mercies of David.’ Apostle Paul said, "And we declare to you glad tidings-that promise which was made to the fathers. God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.’ The context is about resurrection connecting the passage to the book of second Psalm. Psalm 2:7 is about the "decree" and that decree said “I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. Therefore the bible is right and not your so called pioneers. Proverbs 30:5,6 Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
You want truth? Well. Look at the date of the scripts that makes up the bible. Look at the errors. Look at the politics in the early church. The corruption in the early Catholic church. Read the Arian disagreements. There is so, so much wrong i don't know where to begin? I'm at the point of looking at the early Nazarene 100 or so a.d. Deciding if i even want Paul in my bible. Looking at the books not put in the bible. Reading early non trinitarian apoligist like origen. I'll shred long as i need to keep finding the truth in this hole. It falls apart like a house of cards.
unfortunately you are one of the deceived ones, I pray that one day your blindness will be removed but you have a choice to make, the darkness you are currently in or the light presented in this video.
That statement from James White needs to be interpreted in the light of what he said elsewhere, and not isolated from his other writings. Even within that article, a paragraph or so previous to what is quoted, James White refers to Christ as "God the Son." But another article from Review and Herald, November 29, 1877 is even more clear: ***** "The great mistake of the Unitarian is in taking Christ when enfeebled with our nature as the standard of what he was with the Father before the creation of the world, and what he will be when all divine, seated beside the Father on his eternal throne. "True, Christ prayed to a superior. This is during the time of his humiliation, when enfeebled by the seed of Abraham. There was no such dependence before lie humbled himself that he might reach the feeble sinner in all his weakness and shame. Neither will there be when Christ shall be seated at the right hand of power in Heaven. "We may look upon the Father and the Son before the worlds were made as a creating and law administering firm of equal power. Christ did not then rob God in regarding himself equal with the Father. Sin enters the world and the fall occurs. Christ steps out of this firm for a certain time, and takes upon himself the weakness of the seed of Abraham, that he may reach those who are enfeebled by transgression. With his divine arm our adorable Redeemer has hold of the throne of Heaven, and with his human arm he reaches to the depths of human wretchedness, and thus he becomes the connecting link between Heaven and earth, a mediator between God and man. "We notice the steps leading from Christ's position with the Father before the worlds were made, down to his being made weak on account of the sinner, then up to his final position, strength, and glory. "1. Before the fall he was equal with God. "2. When he accepted the position as Redeemer with all its dependence and agony. Then he laid aside his glory as one of the creating and law administering firm. This glory he left with the Father, and then and there made himself of no reputation. "3. He next in due time became obedient to the death of the cross. "4. From this point lie rises. God highly exalted Christ at the resurrection. Then and there he left the seed of Abraham, so that it was the divine Son o God that arose from the dead and ascended to Heaven. "5. Then was there given him a name above men and holy angels. "6. Of all created intelligences in. Heaven and on earth every knee will bow to Jesus Christ, and every tongue will confess. "Redemption is then completed, and again the Son is equal with the Father." ***** You are correct, Matteson was in error regarding the resurrection of Christ. Every time Christ's life is placed into a created body, there is a birth: which is simply a new life resulting from the union of two lives (divinity and the created form). Christ's resurrection was the union of His divine life with a glorified human body. Therefore, it was a birth. "You are my Son; this day [of the resurrection] I have begotten You."
Actually, the antitrinitarian opinion is an old theology in Christianity, and our pioneers brought it from their original churches, even from „Babylon”, according to Dustin’s language. Yes it was from Babylon, like the pioneers habit of pork eating, up to 20 years after 1844. Antitrinitarian concepts were not a new light revealed by God to His remnant at or after 1844, but an old error that especially Unitarians succeeded to spread throughout the Christendom. It is true that pure Unitarianism is not the only error regarding the Biblical Godhead. There are also various trinitarian erroneous understandings, and even binitarian. The last Godhead model says: the truth is in the middle, not Trinity, not One, but two persons only. An this last model of Godhead is also contradictory, because its supporters do not know for sure that Christ is really God. They say He is God by „eternal” birth, which is a pagan manner of understanding Scripture. Nowhere in the Bible will you find that Christ AS GOD is begotten of the Father. Every Biblical statement about His sonship refers exclusively to His human messiaship: Ps 2:6-7 "Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion." "I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me,`You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.” (TODAY refers clearly to the day of His enthronement, as a Son of David, not to any immemorial and imaginary birth from God. The Apostles applied it to His messiaship, proven by His resurrection, not to a supposed „eternal birth”: Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:5; 5:5 ). Luke 1:32 "He will be great, and WILL BE CALLED the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.” (Consequently, He is not born a literal Son of God from the past ages of eternity, but He will be CALLED Son of God, as it is written in Psalm 2, as a future Messiah, who is to be enthroned as a Davidic king). Luke 1:35 ”And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born WILL BE CALLED THE SON OF GOD”. (Similarly, here He IS CALLED the Son of God, as being born from the Spirit, as a human being, but without a human father, somehow similar to Adam, who is called „the son of God”, cf. Luke 3:23, 38. Therefore, he is a Representative Messiah not only for Jews but for the entire humanity). Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Thus Son of God is another way of saying Christ/Messiah, and the title Messiah is exclusively human) Matthew 26:63 ”I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" (Surely Caiaphas does not deal here with subtle Christian opinions. He clearly implies what the Jews at large understood by the phrase ”Son of God”: the Christ/Messiah/The Annointed One, that is the future Davidic King). Luke 4:41 «And DEMONS also came out of many, crying out and saying, "You are the CHRIST, the SON OF GOD!" And He, rebuking them, did not allow them to speak, for they knew that He was the Christ.» (The demons also used to disclose this title, in order to compromise His mission, see Mat 16:20; Mrk 1:34; 8:30; 9:9; Lk 9:20; not to announce the people that Christ is born of God from the remote ages past. There also many NT verses where the speakers say simply, the Son of God. They must be understood like the verses above, as another title, equivalent to Messiah / the Christ). If this ”birth from God” referred to Christ’s supposed origin in the remote past as a literal / ontological Son of God, then we should expect such revelation in the Old Testament, and the title Son of God to be thus applied by Moses and Prophets, instead of Yahweh or the ”Angel” of God. As you could see above, the title SON is figurative, not realistic descriptive. There only one way of understanding the literal birth from a father, in the Jewish culture: Lev 18:11 ”You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife's daughter, BEGOTTEN BY YOUR FATHER.” But if someone would take it rather literally, he or she should remember that a literal birth from God makes God a Mother, not a Father, and by giving the Son a real birth, makes Him a created being, no matter the linguistic difference between born and made. Actually, the Hebrew term for created (verb ברא bara’) is used also for creation by ”birth”: Ps 102:19. The Divine nature has no beginning, no origin. All things have there origin, since they are created directly or indirectly. But Christ cannot be both God and created or born. Each entity that has beginning and end cannot be God. Christ had birth and death as a human being only. As God, He is eternal. We cannot play with the notion of deity, thus confounding the Creator with His creature. In Christ both natures are present, but there is no intermediary nature (kind of God, but not really God!). As regards the expression ”born (or begotten) of God” or ”son of God” it is always used in a figurative way, and it is specific to John: John 1:14 ”And the Word BECAME FLESH and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the ONLY BEGOTTEN (unique son) of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (Thus Christ is the only begotten of the Father, by becoming ”flesh”. There is no reference anywhere that He was begotten before the foundation of the world. In fact, the traditional expression ”only-begotten” is supported only by the Latin Vulgate /”unigenitus”/, but not supported by the Greek text, where μονογενὴς = ”unique”, not ”only-begotten”. Isaac is called the unique or only-begotten son of Abraham, cf. Heb 11:17, but he was not his only son, because it is written that he had eight sons: Ishmael, Isaac, Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah, Gen 16:15; 21:3; 25:1-2). John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (The oldest manuscripts have: μονογενὴς θεὸς = a unique God, thus Christ is declared God, even though His divinity could not be seen, as it was ”veiled” in human nature). John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” John 3:8 "....So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten (= unique) Son....” John 3:18 "...because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten (= unique) Son of God.” 1 Corinthians 4:15 ”...yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.” (clearly a figurative ”birth from Paul”) Philemon 1:10 ”...my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten while in my chains...” 1 Peter 1:3 ”...God ..... has begotten us again to a living hope ...” 1 John 3:9 ”Whoever has been BORN OF GOD does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been BORN OF GOD.” 1 John 4:7 ”...and everyone who loves is BORN OF GOD and knows God.” 1 John 4:9 ”...that God has sent His only begotten (=unique) Son into the world...”. 1 John 5:1 ”Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is BORN OF GOD, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.” 1 John 5:4 ”For whatever is BORN OF GOD overcomes the world.” 1 John 5:18 ”We know that whoever is BORN OF GOD does not sin; but He who has been BORN OF GOD keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. Be faithful to the Scripture! It is our only safety as a source of faith.
The longer the explanation the troublesome it becomes..."For God so loved so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son...John 3 :16...he was already the Son before his incarnation...ain't that simple enough?..why do you have to go on on a tirade?
Antitrinitarian fight not the good fight of the Christian faith, but it is a Jewish, Islamic, unitarian, liberal or sectarian „Christian” spirit. The whole presentation of Dustin Butler is just speculation, both logical and absurd reasoning, conspirational and „reform” mentality. It should not be accepted, no matter how many EGW and other pioneers’ quotations will he bring. Our SDA theologians and historians deserve more credit. Especially the Bible, as it is corporately understood and promoted, is our doctrinal standard.
Your commentary is just an attack to the speaker's address. You didn't provide any proof to what you say or any other method to validate your statement. So I should believe you just because you use some complex words or the one witch provides quotes and actual proof?
The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Catholic Church, pp. 72,73 said, "The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father." By this confession, the church recognizes the Father as "the source and origin of the whole divinity"....The council of Florence in 1438 explains: "The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; ...He proceeds eternally from both as from one principle and through one spiration,... And since the Father has through generaton given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, exept being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son." For the Catholic Church, The "Father as the source of the whole divinity" because for them the Son is eternally born of the Father, and the origin of the Spirit in not unconnected with the Son's origin. Same teaching with your group
Oh, how I wish you'd get new glasses - or ?something? - to help avoid the all-too-frequent mistakes in the simple reading of your PRECIOUS QUOTATIONS! This message is SO IMPORTANT -- it bears precision nigh PERFECTION so that nay-sayers will have less over which they might quibble! Oh well - lots of good stuff here, if one has the GRACE to gloss over so many blunders. (Actually, it seems that one "page" must have been so obvious that it bore an outright DO-OVER....) Blessings on your efforts!!!
This is funny. He's quoting all these people in the past, and it means nothing because they didn't know either. Think they knew more than you do? They didn't have a fraction of info available as you do on the internet. Everyone assumes some one else must have known. Ha ha No one knows., ha ha. It was written from a jewish oppressed tribe, influenced by multiple neighboring nations. Repeatedly orally, possibly forged. Influence in greco roman, then translated by a power hungry corrupt church who hand picked which books you get to have. And your worried about what?? Ja ja ja ja ja
Dustin, I feel your tears.... What a miracle to see what our Heavenly Father Jehovah and his son Christ Jesus through Holy Spirit has accomplished through you men. I am very grateful that you, Daniel and Marg (through prayer) were put in my path a couple of years ago. What Satin wants to seal up and label as a Trinitarian mystery you have meticulously uncovered. Page by page and word by word you have given us the material we need, to ignite a passion FOR TRUTH in the hearts and minds of men.
Praise God that this was a blessing to you.
oops...... i meant Satan, not satin.
Awesome presentation... it should be sent to every SDA preacher and member
Wonderful presentation, Pastor. A message to every Seventh Day Adventist, who have in their hearts a genuine desire to know the truth.
Preach it brother! We need more straight testimonies like this. I believe this is the outpouring of the Latter Rain. Praise God.
I believe the same. Stay tuned for a flood of media coming from Pioneer Health and Missions. Thank you for your kind words.
The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Catholic Church, pp. 72,73 said, "The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father." By this confession, the church recognizes the Father as "the source and origin of the whole divinity"....The council of Florence in 1438 explains: "The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; ...He proceeds eternally from both as from one principle and through one spiration,... And since the Father has through generaton given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, exept being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son."
For the Catholic Church, The "Father as the source of the whole divinity" because for them the Son is eternally born of the Father, and the origin of the Spirit in not unconnected with the Son's origin. Same teaching with your group
“But in the ordinance of baptism (according to the gospel commission), in which ordinance we take upon us the name of the God we worship, he is known as the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.... But when we are baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, as the true living God, our Creator, Preserver, and Saviour, we at once and forever renounce and separate ourselves from every kind and species of idolatry and false worship.” - E. Goodrich, “Baptism,” Review and Herald, March 16,1876, p.82
Thank God for this sermon , if people will only listen!
I will gladly join this church. because it is biblical truth.
The remnant, God bless you
Amen thank you very well done
Pioneer Health and Missions Very good sermon
And changes in Desire of ages and Evangelist to promote trinity
Thank you PHM for these presentations. I have been so blessed by the precious truths presented. Would it be possible to make available the original old copy of "Daniel and the Revelation" on your website so we can all study it too? God continue to bless your ministry.
The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Catholic Church, pp. 72,73 said, "The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father." By this confession, the church recognizes the Father as "the source and origin of the whole divinity"....The council of Florence in 1438 explains: "The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; ...He proceeds eternally from both as from one principle and through one spiration,... And since the Father has through generaton given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, exept being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son."
For the Catholic Church, The "Father as the source of the whole divinity" because for them the Son is eternally born of the Father, and the origin of the Spirit in not unconnected with the Son's origin. Same teaching with your group
God bless you.
Amen!!!
Praise JAH!
There is someone trying to tell me I'm wrong about what is true at the church I was going to. I sent her this video, i pray she sees truth! I can't wait to see you all in March for my baptismal! We cut all ties from the church
Joy, may I ask if you chose to leave or were you disfellowshipped? And if you chose to leave, what brought you to that point? I’m in the same boat.. I’ve been asked not to share my “ideas” as they are not the belief of the denomination.
The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Catholic Church, pp. 72,73 said, "The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father." By this confession, the church recognizes the Father as "the source and origin of the whole divinity"....The council of Florence in 1438 explains: "The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; ...He proceeds eternally from both as from one principle and through one spiration,... And since the Father has through generaton given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, exept being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son."
For the Catholic Church, The "Father as the source of the whole divinity" because for them the Son is eternally born of the Father, and the origin of the Spirit in not unconnected with the Son's origin. Same teaching with your group
@@lmaca7032 No,,it is not...
@@saults2577 the basis of this group is based on the so called "pioneers" here are some examples:
“The Father was greater than the Son in that he was first. The Son was equal with the Father in that he had received all things from the Father.” (James White, Review and Herald, Jan. 4, 1881)
1889)
“God alone is without beginning. At the earliest epoch when a beginning could be, - a period so remote that to finite minds it is essentially eternity, - appeared the Word. 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.' John 1:1. This uncreated Word was the Being, who, in the fullness of time, was made flesh, and dwelt among us. His beginning was not like that of any other being in the universe. It is set forth in the mysterious expressions, 'his [God's] only begotten Son' (John 3:16; 1 John 4:9), 'the only begotten of the Father' (John 1:14), and 'I proceeded forth and came from God.' John 8:42. Thus it appears that by some divine impulse or process, not creation, known only to Omniscience, and possible only to Omnipotence, the Son of God appeared. And then the Holy Spirit (by an infirmity of translation called 'the Holy Ghost'), the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the divine afflatus and medium of their power, representative of them both (Ps.139:7), was in existence also.” (Uriah Smith, Looking Unto Jesus, 1898, p. 10.1)
I called this "big bang theology" because for this group "the Son of God appeared by some divine impulses or process" where can you find in the Word of God?
They also claimed that Jesus Christ is the literal son of God in eternity past!- where can you find that in God's word?
“Christ is the only literal Son of God. 'The only begotten of the Father.' John 1:14. He is God because he is the Son of God; not by virtue of His resurrection. If Christ is the only begotten of the Father, then we cannot be begotten of the Father in a literal sense. It can only be in a secondary sense of the word.” (John Matteson, Review and Herald, Oct. 12, 1869)
Again Mr. John Matteson puts his own interpretation on John 1:14, then rejected the teaching of apostle Paul in Romans 1:3,4 NKJV-
concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
For apostle Paul, He was declared Son of God by the resurrection from the dead, but for Mr. John Matteson "not by virtue of His resurrection."
Who is right here? John Matteson or apostle Paul?
Here is another explanation of apostle Paul (for me he is one of our Pioneers), let us read Acts 13: 28-34 NKJV-
And though they found no cause for death in Him, they asked Pilate that He should be put to death. Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb. But God raised Him from the dead. He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. And we declare to you glad tidings-that promise which was made to the fathers. God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.’
And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus:
‘I will give you the sure mercies of David.’
Apostle Paul said, "And we declare to you glad tidings-that promise which was made to the fathers. God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.’
The context is about resurrection connecting the passage to the book of second Psalm.
Therefore the bible is right and not your so called pioneers.
Proverbs 30:5,6
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
Awesome
Even seasoned theologians often make mistakes in the translation and interpretation of the first verse of the Bible. The first mistake interpreters make is answering the question: “What is “in the beginning?” Many answer it this way: “in the beginning” - this is at the beginning of time. And, speaking of the beginning, they mean the adverb of time, answering the question “When did God create heaven and earth?” Therefore, if this question is incorrectly posed, then the answer will be erroneous. When? At first.
If there was no space and time yet, then the questions “when?” and where?" are simply ridiculous in themselves. Because “when” - there is no countdown of time yet, and “where” - there is no place where creation would take place. In Hebrew, articles, prepositions and conjunctions are written together with the part of speech to which they relate (noun, adjective, verb, etc.).
When a preposition is written together with a noun, it puts this noun in the required case.
The first word בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית “bereshit”, which sounds in our translation as “in the beginning”, is written together and consists of two parts: the noun “decides” and the preposition “be”. If translated literally according to the rules of Hebrew grammar, it would answer the Prepositional case question “in what?” in whom?”, and carry the meaning “at the beginning (beginning - as a noun).” Since we know that this is not an adverb, Jewish grammar allows us to translate it in another way, which does not contradict the first meaning: “through the beginning” (by whom? with what?), - the noun is in the instrumental case. Thus, the logical conclusion suggests itself that the beginning is not a time moment and not a place in which creation begins, but a certain person, a subject in which and by whom God created heaven and earth. (equivalent to the New Testament “in Christ” (Prev. Fall) “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away, everything has become new (2 Cor. 5:17).
From here we come to a correct understanding of the first word of the Bible and how this verse and the first word were understood by the apostles: “The beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1. see 1:14) . John writes his Gospel, realizing that we are talking not about time or place, but about the Person through whom everything was created: “The beginning was the Word.” The beginning was Jesus, the promised Messiah. Before His incarnation, Jesus was the true Creator, the true Word (Aramic - Mamra - this is how the Jews of Jesus' time understood the Messiah). In Revelation 3:14, John continues the theme of the Beginning: “And to the angel of the church of Laodicea write: Thus says the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the Beginning of the creation of God.” And in the last chapter of the Bible, he writes: “I am Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last” (Rev. 22:13).
This corresponds to the logic of the entire Holy Scripture, so that the Name of God, as the First Cause of all things, should be the first word in the Bible, because He himself called Himself “Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.” David writes: “For You have magnified Your Word above every Name of Yours” (Ps. 137:2) “By the Word of the Lord the heavens were made, and by the breath of His mouth all their host:” (Ps. 33:6)
Then the first verse of the Bible would be correctly translated as follows: “Someone named “BEGINNING” created the angels, heaven and earth.” Of course it's Jesus! The Promised Messiah!
Thank you for taking the time to write this.
Dustin__ Awesome presentation !!
“But in the ordinance of baptism (according to the gospel commission), in which ordinance we take upon us the name of the God we worship, he is known as the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.... But when we are baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, as the true living God, our Creator, Preserver, and Saviour, we at once and forever renounce and separate ourselves from every kind and species of idolatry and false worship.” - E. Goodrich,
“Baptism,” Review and Herald, March 16,1876, p.82
Could I have the full presentation without the edits. He was saying something regarding SN Haskell and other things and it left it up in the air
How can I get the H. C. Lacy quote on the Holy Spirit?
Hallelujah !
Bro. The presentation is very well done! I am having trouble we finding the resource of AT Jones you used as reading through his writing I can't find anything to confirm his beliefs in the Trinity I just read a paper written in July 1897 on Christian Education where he notes the Spirit as Christ's spirit
Dear Elizabeth, Thank you for commenting. We hope this was a blessing to you. Here is the quote from the sermon which is taken from "The Christian Church" by A. T. Jones 1907.
1907 AT Jones (The Christian Church)
And the Holy Spirit is a Person. This great truth is not recognized, indeed, it is not believed, by more than a very few even of Christians. For everybody knows that almost invariably, with very, very few exceptions, the Holy Spirit is referred to and spoken of by Christians as “it.” But the word “it” never applies to a person. The word “it,” in the very genius of our language refers and applies to only things, never to persons; to things of inanimate substance, as a stone, a house, a tree; or to things of concept or experience, as space, height, breadth, peace, joy, grief, an impression, an influence. But the Holy Spirit is none of these: the Holy Spirit is not an influence, nor an impression, nor peace, nor joy, nor any thing. The Holy Spirit gives peace, and gives joy, assuages grief, makes an impression, exerts an influence; but the Holy Spirit is none of these things, nor any other thing. No, eternally, no! The Holy Spirit is a Person, eternally a divine Person. And he must be always recognized and spoken of as a Person, or he is not truly recognized or spoken of at all. The Christian Church 201-202
Also, Here is a link to the entire book:
revelation.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Jones-The-Christian-Church.pdf
Ellen White also wrote the following:
1908 EGW to Haskell about AT Jones
We did not see anything to encourage us in the hope that Elder Jones is coming out from the darkness that is upon him. He feels that he understands himself; but he is as the blind and is feeling about, to know what step to take next. I felt that I must speak plainly to him. I told him that notwithstanding the warnings that had been given regarding Dr. Kellogg’s influence over him, he had gone into the very path he had been cautioned not to take; he had not spiritual discernment to understand the doctor’s religious standing. I told him that he had become Dr. Kellogg’s voice to the people. Lt234-1908.6
Thank you for the clear understanding of the holy spirit, for years I have always wondered and prayed to understand, now I thank God the Father for this blessing, amen. an SDA member, listening from Sydney Australia
Ezekiel ch. 1 describes the Trinity. Where the Father goes, Son and the also goes. Ezekiel's vision of wheel within wheel described the presence of the Father, the Son and the Sprit.
Is any other church not following the interpretations of EGW in Babylon?
Does it make any difference in the understanding of what God is, when you consider *when* Jesus the Word/Emanuel, was begotten? This was at His Incarnation, not before. This is also when that part of God that stayed in heaven became the Father (so to speak). *God is an entity* that has from eternity past been comprised of God who became a Father, and the Word which became the Son, and the Holy Spirit *which they have always shared*. These three are who and what GOD is, always have been, and always will be. That is just One God in my way of thinking. All man-made definitions and labels are not completely satisfactory to describe the I AM. They are merely constructs/mechanisms we use to speak about a GOD that is undefinable with human words. We pray to the Father, in the name of His Son, and "the Spirit maketh intercession for us with groanings that cannot be uttered." What about that can any Christian not agree with? Do you not all agree that there might always be some element of semantics related to this topic? What is wrong with letting some people hold to a slightly different choice of words to define the undefinable? Why does that rise to the level of breaking communion with the Seventh-Day Adventists? Is this the only thing that separates the SDCR from the SDA's theologically?
Trinitarianism is polytheism I’m trying to masquerade as a monotheism. They have to turn God from a person into a state of being that three people can share in.
Trinity is Bible's doctrine. You people believe not the trinity mean you are denying the Christ and the Holy Spirit. When you are baptized, you are introduced to 3 entities: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Thus, you are baptized.
Trinity in the Bible
In heaven and on earth, two witness are required as proof.
Here are the two witnesses who testifies for trinity:
1. Matthew 28:19.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
Three entities mentioned here: The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost
2. 1 John 5:7
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
Here also three entities mentioned: The Father, The Word (The Son) and The Holy Ghost
QUESTION:
ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN? ARE YOU BAPTIZED CHRISTIAN? If so, you believe trinity doctrine.
When you are baptized you have been introduced the Three Heads of God, the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY GHOST.
Pastor says, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost."
All Christian churches believe in Trinity, knowing or unknowing, and therefore they baptize or be baptized in the name the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.
ONE WHO DENY TRINITY, HE DENIES THE SON. "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father; he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also". (1 John 2:23)
Alpha of Apostasy from Kellogg. I thought Froom was the Omega by his book about the Holy Spirit and Questions on Doctrine. Books of a new order that changed SDA religion. B. G. Wilkinson said Leroy Froom was the most dangerous man in Adventism. Now our Conference follows these heresies. I stand on the platform laid by our Master Builder! This is the true church. SDA Conference has apostitized. The head has become the tail.
May I have the email address for this pastor please?
Hello, This is Dustin Butler. I am not a pastor, just a bible student and elder. Please respond with your email and I will contact you directly. Thank you for reaching out to me.
I'm amazed the way my church is trying to speak about God from the voice of H.W. and you guys shall believe when she says "THE BIBLE AND ONLY THE BIBLE" ,
The BIBLE has all the information and more about God,Jesus,and God spirit, we shall go back to the truth only in the BIBLE. obey God
EGW wrote always IT. Heavenly Trio is also not from her!
"As to any special controversy, or agitation, over the matter of the Trinity, I cannot recall anything serious at all. Of course I have always known that Elder Uriah Smith was an Arian in belief, (‘Thoughts on Daniel and the Revelation’ reveal that!) and that our people undoubtedly generally followed that view. But we, as a family, had been brought up in the Church of England, and were naturally, may I say, Trinitarians. We just believed it, subconsciously, and I do not remember our ever discussing the question with the brethren who brought us into the Truth, Elder M. C. Israel, and young brother W. L. H. Baker. ONE THING I DO RECALL IS MY MOTHER’S REMARKING ON THE STRANGE LANGUAGE USED BY OUR MINISTERS IN SPEAKING OF THE HOLY GHOST AS ‘IT’ AND ‘ITS’ AS THOUGH THEY THOUGHT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AS AN INFLUENCE, INSTEAD OF AS A PERSON. THAT SEEMED VERY STRANGE TO HER, AND IN A MEASURE TO ME ALSO (I was about 17 then).” {H. C. Lacey letter to LeRoy Froom Aug. 30, 1945}
All Adventists have used IT and not HE for holy Spirit! Also EGW. After her death they changed all to HE. Just Dr. Kellog and A.T. Jones after his FALL used HE. Heavenly Trio is also falsificated!
„I am sorry for A. T. Jones, who has been warned over and over again. Notwithstanding these warnings, he has allowed the enemy to fill his mind with thoughts of self-importance. Heed not his words, for he has rejected the plainest light and has chosen darkness instead. The Holy One hath given us messages clear and distinct, but some poor souls have been blinded by the falsehoods and the deceptive influences of satanic agencies and have turned from truth and righteousness to follow these fallacies of satanic origin.“ {EGW Ms 39, 1906.5}
„We did not see anything to encourage us in the hope that Elder Jones is coming out from the darkness that is upon him. He feels that he understands himself; but he is as the blind and is feeling about to know what step to take next. I felt that I must speak plainly to him. I told him that notwithstanding the warnings that had been given regarding Dr. KELLOG INFLUENCE over him, he had gone into the very path he had been cautioned not to take; he had not spiritual discernment to understand the doctor’s religious standing. I told him that he had become Dr. Kellogg’s VOICE to the people.“ {Ellen White, Lt 234, 1908.5}
„And the holy Spirit is a person. This great truth is NOT recognized, indeed it is not believed, by more than a very few even of Christians. For everybody knows that almost invariably, with very, very few exceptions, the holy Spirit is referred to and spoken of by Christians as IT.” But the word “it” never applies to a person. The word “it,” in the very genius of our language, refers and applies only to things, never to persons; to things of inanimate substance, as a stone, a horse, a tree; or to things of concept, or experience, as space, height, breadth, peace, joy, grief, an impression, an influence. But the holy Spirit is none of these: the holy Spirit is not an influence; nor an impression, nor peace, nor joy, nor any thing. The holy Spirit gives peace, and gives joy, assuages in grief, makes an impression, exerts an influence; but the holy Spirit is none of these things, nor any other thing. No, eternally no! The holy Spirit is a Person, eternally a divine Person. And he must be always recognised and spoken of as a Person, or he is not truly recognised or spoken of at all.“ {A.T. Jones The Christian Church, 1907, p. 201-202} {@t ( Internet p. 95, p. 96,- und p. 97}
“He (Dr. Kellog) told me that he now believed in God the Father, God the Son, and God the holy Ghost; and his view was that it was God the holy Ghost, and not God the Father, that filled all space, and every living thing.” {Letter by A. G. Daniells to W. C. White on October 29, 1903 p. 1+2}
„I am sorry for A. T. Jones, who has been warned over and over again. Notwithstanding these warnings, he has allowed the enemy to fill his mind with thoughts of self-importance. Heed not his words, for he has rejected the plainest light and has chosen darkness instead. The Holy One hath given us messages clear and distinct, but some poor souls have been blinded by the falsehoods and the deceptive influences of satanic agencies and have turned from truth and righteousness to follow these fallacies of satanic origin.“ {EGW Ms 39, 1906.5}
HE, instead of IT was falsificated after her death!
„Message after message has come to me from the Lord concerning the dangers surrounding you and Elder Prescott. I have seen that satan would have been greatly pleased to see Elders Prescott and Daniells undertake the work of a general overhauling of our books that have done a good work in the field for years. But neither of you is called of God to that work.…I have been instructed that the Lord is not the author of the proposal to make many changes in books already published." {Ellen White, Lt 70 - 1910-2+15}
Heavenly Trio is falsificated and broth after her death. Look those two texts: completely incompatible!
“There are three LIVING persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the holy Spirit- those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ. . . “ {"Ellen White": Testimonies for the Church, Series B, No. 7, 63, 1905. Evangelism, p. 615}
TRUTH:
“...it is God, the ONLY true and LIVING God, to whom our worship and reverence are due. ...Let the brightest example the world has yet seen be your example, rather than the greatest and most learned men of the age, who know not God, nor Jesus Christ whom he has sent. The Father and the Son alone are to be exalted.” {Ellen White: YI, July 7, 1898 par. 2}
Also 1. Thessalonik 1, 9.10 Revelation 7, 2.3 Matthias 16.16
It is just one of many proofs, that those FEW texts with Trio are all falsificated, to have "proof" that trinity would be "truth"..
„Whatever wrong construction may be placed upon my testimony by those who profess righteousness, yet know not God, I shall in humility go forward with my work“ {Ellen White: SM1 p. 73}
„Satan has worked upon human minds, and will continue to betray sacred trust in a spurious way.“ {Ellen White: SM Book 1 p. 57}
ELLEN WHITE WAS AGAINST TRINITY!
“But after catechizing us upon the trinity, and finding that we were not sound upon the subject of his triune god, he became earnest in denouncing unitarianism, which takes from Christ his divinity, and leaves him but a man. Here, as far as our views were concerned, he was combating a man of straw. We do not deny the divinity of Christ. [..] We believe him to be the divine person addressed by Jahveh in the words, " Let us make man." He was with the Father before the world was. [..] We have NOT as much sympathy with Unitarians that deny the divinity of Christ, as with TRINITARIANS who hold that the Son is the eternal Father, and talk so mistily about the three-one God. Give the Master all that divinity with which the Holy Scriptures clothe him.“ {ELLEN WHITE, Review and Herald, 6. June, 1871, p. 196, Western Tour} {@t
I'm not finding this reference, could you review and give the correct reference
Your last quote can not be found. Please double check it and correct this. Thank you
The "Trinity" doctrine held by most Christians in the early part of the 19th century - that one entity morphed between being the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, was rightly rejected by our early Adventist forefathers.
.
The term "Trinity" today is not held to have the same meaning.
It would have saved much trouble if our SDA Church had stayed with the biblical word "Godhead", and not used this problematic word infused with Catholic theology - "Trinity".
Read Desire of Ages pages 671, 21-22, Testimonies to Ministers p 392, Reflecting Christ p129 , 285,133, Counsels on Health p222, and Steps to Christ p 21. I could give other quotes ,from Ellen White, but many more verses from the Bible in my book, "The Godhead."
Leaving out facts is not fair. The book Evangelism pages 614 to 617 by Ellen White who says that the Father is fully God, Christ is fully God, the Holy Spirit is fully God.
The pioneers nor Ellen White tgought the Holy Spirit was a person, although some of the verbage could be misunderstood if you aren't looking at thw big picture or studing everything she has to say on the subject. The Bible calls a lampstand "he" (Exodus 25:32) so we can't go by that alone.
Evangelism, p. 616:
"We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds."--Manuscript 66, 1899. (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.)
"The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. When this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we believe and are sure that we are the children of God. . . . "
"The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."--Manuscript 20, 1906.
"The prince of the power of evil can only be held in check by the power of God in the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit."--Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 10, p. 37. (1897)
"We are to co-operate with the three highest powers in heaven,--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, --and these powers will work through us, making us workers together with God."--Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, p. 51. (1905)
BIBLE SAYS, THERE ARE THREE: I believe in Trinity because the following 3 texts:
1 John 5:7 - "For there are THREE that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD (THE SON), and the HOLY GHOST: and these three are ONE."
2. Matthew 28:19 - "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the HOLY GHOST:"
***When Jesus mention about THREE, why should not I believe?
3. Matthew 3:16, 17 - (16)"As soon as Jesus (SON) was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God (HOLY GHOST) descending like a dove and alighting on him." (17) "And a voice (VOICE OF THE FATHER) from heaven said, 'This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.'”
These three verses prove the THREE HEADS OF GOD. THEY ARE ONE IN UNITY. It is not an invention of the Catholic church.
Honesty is the best policy. @13:10 of the video, Dustin should have continued with the quote... SADLY he did NOT.
This is the Trinity that JNL referred to :
These positions we will remark upon briefly in their order. And 1. It is not very consonant with common sense to talk of three being one, and one being three. Or as some express it, calling God “the Triune God,” or “the three-one-God.” If Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are each God, it would be three Gods; for three times one is not one, but three.
There is a sense in which they are one, >>but not one person, as claimed by Trinitarians.
Thank you for taking the time to write a comment. This is a really big topic and I am sorry that you perceive that I intentionally left information out.
If you will notice JNA is not quoting trinitarians but rather drawing logical conclusions from the words and phrases that they actually do use. This continues in our day. President Ted Wilson routinely uses the phrase “God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit”. Wilson’s phrasing which is also used by many others more than just implies that there are three Gods. This does not fit the official Trinitarian position. To accomplish this he should rightly say “The person of the Father, the person of the Son, and the person of the Holy Spirit which comprise one God.” But instead, the fundamental beliefs are self contradicting according to common sense. Each is called God as an individual. This also contradicts scripture. If God is made up of three then John 17:3 makes no sense if we take it as it reads. “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” The bottom line for me is that if the church would have restrained themselves to using biblical language they would not have found themselves in the mess that they are currently in regarding the personality of God.
Responding to a question on the Trinity, Wilson referred to the Scriptures and the writings of Ellen White as he affirmed, “God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit have been together from eternity and will be together through eternity. . . . They work in complete harmony . . . they are the Godhead. They cannot work in opposition to each other. Yes, they have specific roles, but they work in perfect unity and harmony.” Ted Wilson Addresses Questions on the Campus of Andrews University AR MARCH 8, 2019
The Bible does not use such confusing language and neither does Ellen White. In describing the meaning of Mat. 28:19 she states the following. Note her parenthetical explanations.:
Before He left them, Christ gave His followers a positive promise that after His ascension He would send them the Holy Spirit. “Go, ye therefore,” He said, “and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father (a personal God) and of the Son (a personal Prince and Saviour), and of the Holy Ghost (sent from heaven to represent Christ); teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you; and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.” [Matthew 28:19, 20.] Ms41-1897
Here are some more quotes from SDA scholars and writers who use the term being which is synonymous with person by definition.
We do not believe in three Gods but ‘one God in three persons.’ In other words, God has revealed his nature as Trinity, that is, three coeternal and coequal persons, who, though distinct, constitute the ‘ONE DIVINE TRINITARIAN BEING.’“ - Ekkehardt Mueller “Our God,” 2008 BRI
“Given Adventists’ commitment to biblical inspiration, the inability of human reason to describe the inner structure of God’s being should not distract from the fact that ‘in Scripture God has revealed His transcendent nature as Trinity, namely three distinct divine Persons who act directly and historically in history and ‘constitute the one divine Trinitarian being’” Kwabena Donkor (Assoc. Dir. BRI), God in Three Persons
"The most we can say is that in Genesis we find, ‘within the intradivine being,’ ‘the one God,’ a plurality of persons that through further divine revelation will be identified as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" Angel Rodriguez (Assoc. Dir. BRI), Adventist World, April 2017
God is one, but that one name, Ha-Shem, is shared by three (see Matt 28:19). ‘One being’ but three persons is the language we use" Paul Petersen, "God in Three Persons - in the New Testament," BRI May 2015
I only wish that we could agree to use inspired language in our doctrinal statements then the conflict regarding the personality of God would virtually disappear.
@@dustinbutler6571
I appreciate the dialogue.
I see here that, from the 1828 Websters Dictionary :
( Pertaining to humans and the Godhead. )
BEING, n. Existence; as, God is the author of our being.
1. A particular state or condition. [This is hardly a different sense.]
2.>> A person existing
the quote from Joshua Himes about the millerites becoming non-trinitarian in 1835 IS a TOTAL MISQUOTATION
i read that quote myself from its original source and he was NOT talking about the millerite adventists at all whatsoever.
What is the original source?
Please address SDA still celebrating pagan Roman holidays … traditions of men….instead of accepting keeping God’s Holy feasts and festivals.
So what. Just because pagans did something first does it mean other people can’t use them. Just because they were the first to decorate a tree doesn’t mean that we can’t use it. Where is that written?
It means because it is pagan we should not worship as the pagans do.
@@Sirach144 Where is it written that you should? Are you commanded to do it, or are you just satisfying your own lusts?
@@eddielasowsky7777
Where does it say we can t do something just because a pagan thought of it first.
@@Sirach144 " (Jeremiah 10:3-5), God describes some of their idolatrous customs. They cut a tree from the forest, shaped it with an ax and overlaid it with precious metals. Although this account is specifically referring to the making of an idol (Jeremiah 10:6-8), God's command, 'Do not learn the way of the Gentiles,' applies to all pagan customs. Christmas trees, mistletoe and colorful lights that come from pagan winter-solstice celebrations, rabbits and Easter eggs as fertility symbols, and demonic concepts at Halloween, all fit this prohibition"
Ellen G. White repeatedly affirms that the Holy Spirit is a Person:
The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. . . .
The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God.l
The Holy Spirit is presented in the writings of Ellen G. White as God, not an inferior emanation from the Deity, but in every sense God, as are Christ and the Father:
The prince of the power of evil can only be held in check by the tower of God in the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit. (2)
Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. It is the Spirit that makes effectual what has been wrought out by the world’s Redeemer. (3)
The Holy Spirit is not spoken of as a subordinate representative, a tool used by the Father and the Son. As is Christ so is the Holy Spirit the "fullness of the Godhead:"
The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven is the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons in the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and those powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their effort to live the new life of Christ. (4)
ENDNOTES
1 E. G. White, Evangelism (Washington, D. C.: Review and Herald Publishing Association, l946), pp. 616, 617. Citing Manuscript 20, 1906.
2 lbid., p. 617. Citing Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 10, p. 37. (l897)
3 E. G. White, The Desire of Ages (Mountain View, Cal.: Pacific Press Publishing Association, l898), p. 671.
4 White, op. cit., pp. 614 6l5. Citing Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (l905).
Amen.
Of course the Holy Spirit is a person, it is the spirit of Christ. As SDA's we know that a spirit is never separated from its owner, that would be spiritualism.
"The Lord is soon to come. We want that complete and perfect understanding which the Lord alone can give. It is not safe to catch the spirit from another. We want the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ." Letter 66- 1894.18
" The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, which is sent to all men to give them sufficiency, that through His grace we might be complete in Him." 14 MR p. 84
"The juices of the vine, ascending from the root, are diffused to the branches sustaining growth and producing blossoms and fruit. So the life-giving power of the Holy Spirit, proceeding from Christ, and imparted to every disciple, pervades the soul..." SOP, vol 3, p. 418, 1878
"The influence of the Holy Spirit is the life of Christ in the soul." MR vol 4, p. 332, 1896
@@disccattopdog9134 "The Holy Spirit is Christ’s representative, but divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally. Therefore it was for their interest that He should go to the Father, and send the Spirit to be His successor on earth. No one could then have any advantage because of his location or his personal contact with Christ. By the Spirit the Saviour would be accessible to all. In this sense He would be nearer to them than if He had not ascended on high."-The Desire of Ages, 669. {ChS 255.3}
@@Nirky I couldn't agree more. I love this quote. Since we know without a doubt that the Holy Spirit is Christ Himself in spirit form, this quote helps us confirm that fact. One can only "divest" what has been vested. The only being ever vested with humanity was Christ. Therefore He is the only being ever "divested of humanity".
The original source for the DA quote you shared is found in a Review & Herald article, November 19, 1908, Art. B. This article in its entirety is clearer than the portion included in DA. Incidently, Ellen clearly switches back & forth between using Christ (The Father's Annointed) & the Holy Spirit (of Christ, the spirit of the Annointed High Priest). The sanctuary proves that there is only one High Priest who has to be a human.There is only one mediator between God & men, the man Christ Jesus.
"By the spirit the Father and the Son will come and make Their abode with you." The Bible Echo, Jan 15, 1893, par. 8
"The impartation of the spirit is the impartation of the life of Christ." DA, p. 805 (nobody else's life).
"Christ gives them the breath of His own spirit, the life of His own life. The Holy Spirit puts forth its highest energies to work in the heart and mind." DA, p. 827
"While Jesus ministers in the sanctuary above, He is by His spirit the minister of the church on earth. He is withdrawn from the eye of sense, but His parting promise is fulfilled, "Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world." Mat 20:12. While He delegates His power to inferior ministers, His energizing presence is still with His church." DA, p. 166
There is clearly no unbiblical God the Holy Spirit being spoken of here.
Blessings
The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Catholic Church, pp. 72,73 said, "The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father." By this confession, the church recognizes the Father as "the source and origin of the whole divinity"....The council of Florence in 1438 explains: "The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; ...He proceeds eternally from both as from one principle and through one spiration,... And since the Father has through generaton given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, exept being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son."
For the Catholic Church, The "Father as the source of the whole divinity" because for them the Son is eternally born of the Father, and the origin of the Spirit in not unconnected with the Son's origin. Same teaching with your group
So is Jesus God?
One month and nobody answers your question. Unfortunately the people here have been led by the deceiver to believe Jesus was created.
YES Jesus is God and has been with the Father from the beginning. John 1:1
Jesus has no beginning of days. Heb 7:3 Believe the word of God!
Hebrews 1:8 {the Father calls Jesus God}
But unto the Son he {God } saith,
Thy throne, O God {Theos}, is, forever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.
The Holy Spirit applies this to Jesus in (Hebrews) and to The Father in (Psalm 45:6).
Psalm 45:6
Your throne, O God, will last, forever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
Deuteronomy 6:13-14 {Holy Spirit said worship only God.}
"You shall fear only the LORD your God; and you shall worship Him and swear by His name. “You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you,
Luke 4:8 {Jesus reminds satan only God is to be worshiped}
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve.
Hebrews 1:6 {the Father tells the angels to worship Jesus}
And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world he {God} saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Daniel 7:13-14, (The Father decrees all will worship him)
In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”
Matthew 28:17 {Apostles worship Jesus} Luke 24:52
And when they saw him, they worshiped him:
And they worshiped him.
John 20:28, 29 {Thomas calls Jesus God}{ o Kurios mou kai o Theos mou } the definite article.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ· ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου
…..Does Jesus correct Thomas? No, he calls him blessed.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Romans 9:5 {The Holy Spirit thru Paul calls Jesus GOD}
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen…NIV
I Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Titus 2:13 Titus 3:4-7
Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior
Philippians 2:5-7
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of man:
John 1:1, 2,3,14 {The Holy Spirit thru John calls Jesus God}
In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word .
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.
En arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton Theon kai theos en ho Logos
He was in [the] beginning with God.
All things through him came into being, and without him came into being not even one [thing] which has come into being.
And the Word flesh became, and tabernacled among us,
John 1:9-10
The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Acts 20:28 {The Holy Spirit thru Luke calls Jesus God}
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
2 Peter 1:1 {The Holy Spirit thru Peter calls Jesus God}
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
2 Peter 1:11
"for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.,"
2 Peter 2:20
"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first,"
2 Peter 3:18
"but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen,"
Jude 4,5 (The Holy Spirit thru Jude calls Jesus God)
For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.
Isaiah 7:14 {The Holy Spirit thru the prophets calls Jesus God}
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Matthew 1:23 (The Holy Spirit thru Matthew defines the name Immanuel, Jesus is GOD}
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Revelation 1:8, 22:13, 16 (Jesus claims to be GOD)
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end the first and the last…
I JESUS have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.
Matthew 4:7 (after satan tempts Jesus, Jesus states)
Jesus said to him again, 'It hath been written, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.'
Exodus 3:13-14 (the Father states he is I AM THAT I AM)
And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, what is his name? What shall I say unto them?
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
John 8:58 10:30-36 {John states Jesus said he is I AM}
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.
John 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
And Yet God is one
Mark 12:28
And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all ? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is,
Hear, O Israel;
The Lord our God is one Lord:
Deuteronomy 5:7
You shall have no other gods before me.
So who is HE?
ua-cam.com/video/2OoUvneyE5Q/v-deo.html
Psalm 119:18
Open my eyes to see wonderful things in your Word.
In His service,
So is Jesus GOD?
Isaiah 42:8 48:11-12 {God will never give his glory}
I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, and I will not give my glory unto another. I am he; I am the first, I also am the Last.
Revelation 1: 8 (He is the first and the last the beginning and the end the Alpha and Omega)
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was and which is to come, the Almighty.
Philippians 2:5-7 {of what did he empty himself}
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation (emptied), and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of man:
{The Greek reads as follows}
Who in form of God subsisting not rapinesteemed it to be equal with god;
John 14:28 {Jesus in human form occupies a lower position then the Father}
"You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.'"
Hebrews 2:9 {Jesus Humbled himself while walking among us}
But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone
Galatians 4:4 {Jesus is born as a human}
But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
until that time he assumed his correct position in heaven.
John 5:30
“I can do nothing on my own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will, but the will of Him who sent me.”
Colossians 1:19 {Yet he was still GOD}
For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,
Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Deity bodily.,
ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς Θεότητος σωματικῶς
…This indicates most unequivocally the full divinity of Jesus Christ, for neither any man, even the godliest one, nor any angel, even the highest in angelic hierarchy can contain the "fullness" or "entirety" of Divinity. There is no human word that embodies the very essence of the Divine Being which dwells in Jesus.
John 14:9
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
To behold Jesus was to see GOD
John 17:5 {God gives Jesus his glory back} {of his right to exercise his deity}
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Matthew 28:18 {which he takes up after the resurrection}
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, all power {authority} is given (surrendered) unto me in heaven and in earth.
Revelation 1: 11-14, 22:13, 16 {Jesus assumes his correct position as GOD}
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: …
And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;…
And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man,
His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
I am Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End the First and the Last…
>> have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.
Revelation 1:17-18 {the Holy Spirit thru John states Jesus is the First and the Last?}
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, fear not; I am the first and last:
I am he that liveth, and was…………….. Dead, and, behold, I am alive for evermore, A-men; and have the keys of hell and of death
John 1:1, 2,3,14 {The Holy Spirit states Jesus is God}
In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word .
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.
En arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton Theon kai theos en ho Logos
And the Word flesh became, and tabernacled among us,
Matthew 1:23 (The Holy Spirit thru Matthew calls Jesus GOD}
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Isaiah 7:14 {The Holy Spirit calls Jesus God}
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
…..When did the First and the Last (GOD), the Beginning and the End (GOD), the Alpha and Omega (GOD) taste death?
Matthew 26:53 (Jesus was obedient to what was prophesied)
Are you not aware that I can call on My Father, and He will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?
But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen this way?”…
Daniel 7:13-14, (Daniel saw the Son of Man approaching the Father)
In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, . His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”
Deuteronomy 6:13-14 {Holy Spirit said worship only God.}
"You shall fear only the LORD your God; and you shall worship Him and swear by His name. “You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you,
Luke 4:8 {Jesus reminds satan only God is to be worshiped}
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve.
ua-cam.com/video/2OoUvneyE5Q/v-deo.html
And Yet God is one
Mark 12:28
And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all ? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is,
Hear, O Israel;
The Lord our God is one Lord:
Psalm 119:18
Open my eyes to see wonderful things in your Word.
In His Service,
@@canderssonswedican7486 Jesus is the "Almighty" according to Revelation. Anti-Trinitarians always try to demote Jesus. Let's call on them to repent.
the basis of this group is based on the so called "pioneers" here are some examples:
“The Father was greater than the Son in that he was first. The Son was equal with the Father in that he had received all things from the Father.” (James White, Review and Herald, Jan. 4, 1881)
“God alone is without beginning. At the earliest epoch when a beginning could be, - a period so remote that to finite minds it is essentially eternity, - appeared the Word. 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.' John 1:1. This uncreated Word was the Being, who, in the fullness of time, was made flesh, and dwelt among us. His beginning was not like that of any other being in the universe. It is set forth in the mysterious expressions, 'his [God's] only begotten Son' (John @; 1 John 4:9), 'the only begotten of the Father' (John @), and 'I proceeded forth and came from God.' John @. Thus it appears that by some divine impulse or process, not creation, known only to Omniscience, and possible only to Omnipotence, the Son of God appeared. And then the Holy Spirit (by an infirmity of translation called 'the Holy Ghost'), the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the divine afflatus and medium of their power, representative of them both (Ps.139:7), was in existence also.” (Uriah Smith, Looking Unto Jesus, 1898, p. 10.1)
I called this "big bang theology" because for this group "the Son of God appeared by some divine impulses or process" where can you find in the Word of God?
They also claimed that Jesus Christ is the literal son of God in eternity past!- where can you find that in God's word?
“Christ is the only literal Son of God. 'The only begotten of the Father.' John @. He is God because he is the Son of God; not by virtue of His resurrection. If Christ is the only begotten of the Father, then we cannot be begotten of the Father in a literal sense. It can only be in a secondary sense of the word.” (John Matteson, Review and Herald, Oct. 12, 1869)
Again Mr. John Matteson puts his own interpretation on John @, then rejected the teaching of apostle Paul in Romans 1:3,4 NKJV-
concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
For apostle Paul, He was declared Son of God by the resurrection from the dead, but for Mr. John Matteson "not by virtue of His resurrection."
Who is right here? John Matteson or apostle Paul?
Here is another explanation of apostle Paul (for me he is one of our Pioneers),
let us read Acts 13: 28-34 NKJV-
And though they found no cause for death in Him, they asked Pilate that He should be put to death. Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb. But God raised Him from the dead. He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. And we declare to you glad tidings-that promise which was made to the fathers. God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.’
And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus:
‘I will give you the sure mercies of David.’
Apostle Paul said, "And we declare to you glad tidings-that promise which was made to the fathers. God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.’
The context is about resurrection connecting the passage to the book of second Psalm. Psalm 2:7 is about the "decree" and that decree said “I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me, ‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
Therefore the bible is right and not your so called pioneers.
Proverbs 30:5,6
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
You want truth? Well. Look at the date of the scripts that makes up the bible. Look at the errors. Look at the politics in the early church. The corruption in the early Catholic church. Read the Arian disagreements. There is so, so much wrong i don't know where to begin? I'm at the point of looking at the early Nazarene 100 or so a.d.
Deciding if i even want Paul in my bible. Looking at the books not put in the bible. Reading early non trinitarian apoligist like origen.
I'll shred long as i need to keep finding the truth in this hole. It falls apart like a house of cards.
unfortunately you are one of the deceived ones, I pray that one day your blindness will be removed but you have a choice to make, the darkness you are currently in or the light presented in this video.
That statement from James White needs to be interpreted in the light of what he said elsewhere, and not isolated from his other writings. Even within that article, a paragraph or so previous to what is quoted, James White refers to Christ as "God the Son." But another article from Review and Herald, November 29, 1877 is even more clear:
*****
"The great mistake of the Unitarian is in taking Christ when enfeebled with our nature as the standard of what he was with the Father before the creation of the world, and what he will be when all divine, seated beside the Father on his eternal throne.
"True, Christ prayed to a superior. This is during the time of his humiliation, when enfeebled by the seed of Abraham. There was no
such dependence before lie humbled himself that he might reach the feeble sinner in all his weakness and shame. Neither will there be when Christ shall be seated at the right hand of power in Heaven.
"We may look upon the Father and the Son before the worlds were made as a creating and law administering firm of equal power. Christ did not then rob God in regarding himself equal with the Father. Sin enters the world and the fall occurs. Christ steps out of this firm for a certain time, and takes upon himself the weakness of the seed of Abraham, that he may reach those who are enfeebled by transgression. With his divine arm our adorable Redeemer has hold of the throne of Heaven, and with his human arm he reaches to the depths of human wretchedness, and thus he becomes the connecting link between Heaven and earth, a mediator between God and man.
"We notice the steps leading from Christ's position with the Father before the worlds were made, down to his being made weak on account of the sinner, then up to his final position, strength, and glory.
"1. Before the fall he was equal with God.
"2. When he accepted the position as Redeemer with all its dependence and agony. Then he laid aside his glory as one of the creating and law administering firm. This glory he left with the Father, and then and there made himself of no reputation.
"3. He next in due time became obedient to the death of the cross.
"4. From this point lie rises. God highly exalted Christ at the resurrection. Then and there he left the seed of Abraham, so that it
was the divine Son o God that arose from the dead and ascended to Heaven.
"5. Then was there given him a name above men and holy angels.
"6. Of all created intelligences in. Heaven and on earth every knee will bow to Jesus Christ, and every tongue will confess.
"Redemption is then completed, and again the Son is equal with the Father."
*****
You are correct, Matteson was in error regarding the resurrection of Christ. Every time Christ's life is placed into a created body, there is a birth: which is simply a new life resulting from the union of two lives (divinity and the created form). Christ's resurrection was the union of His divine life with a glorified human body. Therefore, it was a birth. "You are my Son; this day [of the resurrection] I have begotten You."
Actually, the antitrinitarian opinion is an old theology in Christianity, and our pioneers brought it from their original churches, even from „Babylon”, according to Dustin’s language. Yes it was from Babylon, like the pioneers habit of pork eating, up to 20 years after 1844. Antitrinitarian concepts were not a new light revealed by God to His remnant at or after 1844, but an old error that especially Unitarians succeeded to spread throughout the Christendom.
It is true that pure Unitarianism is not the only error regarding the Biblical Godhead. There are also various trinitarian erroneous understandings, and even binitarian. The last Godhead model says: the truth is in the middle, not Trinity, not One, but two persons only. An this last model of Godhead is also contradictory, because its supporters do not know for sure that Christ is really God. They say He is God by „eternal” birth, which is a pagan manner of understanding Scripture. Nowhere in the Bible will you find that Christ AS GOD is begotten of the Father. Every Biblical statement about His sonship refers exclusively to His human messiaship:
Ps 2:6-7 "Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion." "I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me,`You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.” (TODAY refers clearly to the day of His enthronement, as a Son of David, not to any immemorial and imaginary birth from God. The Apostles applied it to His messiaship, proven by His resurrection, not to a supposed „eternal birth”: Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:5; 5:5
).
Luke 1:32 "He will be great, and WILL BE CALLED the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.” (Consequently, He is not born a literal Son of God from the past ages of eternity, but He will be CALLED Son of God, as it is written in Psalm 2, as a future Messiah, who is to be enthroned as a Davidic king).
Luke 1:35 ”And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born WILL BE CALLED THE SON OF GOD”. (Similarly, here He IS CALLED the Son of God, as being born from the Spirit, as a human being, but without a human father, somehow similar to Adam, who is called „the son of God”, cf. Luke 3:23, 38. Therefore, he is a Representative Messiah not only for Jews but for the entire humanity).
Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Thus Son of God is another way of saying Christ/Messiah, and the title Messiah is exclusively human)
Matthew 26:63 ”I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" (Surely Caiaphas does not deal here with subtle Christian opinions. He clearly implies what the Jews at large understood by the phrase ”Son of God”: the Christ/Messiah/The Annointed One, that is the future Davidic King).
Luke 4:41 «And DEMONS also came out of many, crying out and saying, "You are the CHRIST, the SON OF GOD!" And He, rebuking them, did not allow them to speak, for they knew that He was the Christ.» (The demons also used to disclose this title, in order to compromise His mission, see Mat 16:20; Mrk 1:34; 8:30; 9:9; Lk 9:20; not to announce the people that Christ is born of God from the remote ages past. There also many NT verses where the speakers say simply, the Son of God. They must be understood like the verses above, as another title, equivalent to Messiah / the Christ).
If this ”birth from God” referred to Christ’s supposed origin in the remote past as a literal / ontological Son of God, then we should expect such revelation in the Old Testament, and the title Son of God to be thus applied by Moses and Prophets, instead of Yahweh or the ”Angel” of God.
As you could see above, the title SON is figurative, not realistic descriptive. There only one way of understanding the literal birth from a father, in the Jewish culture: Lev 18:11 ”You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife's daughter, BEGOTTEN BY YOUR FATHER.” But if someone would take it rather literally, he or she should remember that a literal birth from God makes God a Mother, not a Father, and by giving the Son a real birth, makes Him a created being, no matter the linguistic difference between born and made. Actually, the Hebrew term for created (verb ברא bara’) is used also for creation by ”birth”: Ps 102:19. The Divine nature has no beginning, no origin. All things have there origin, since they are created directly or indirectly. But Christ cannot be both God and created or born. Each entity that has beginning and end cannot be God. Christ had birth and death as a human being only. As God, He is eternal. We cannot play with the notion of deity, thus confounding the Creator with His creature. In Christ both natures are present, but there is no intermediary nature (kind of God, but not really God!).
As regards the expression ”born (or begotten) of God” or ”son of God” it is always used in a figurative way, and it is specific to John:
John 1:14 ”And the Word BECAME FLESH and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the ONLY BEGOTTEN (unique son) of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (Thus Christ is the only begotten of the Father, by becoming ”flesh”. There is no reference anywhere that He was begotten before the foundation of the world. In fact, the traditional expression ”only-begotten” is supported only by the Latin Vulgate /”unigenitus”/, but not supported by the Greek text, where μονογενὴς = ”unique”, not ”only-begotten”. Isaac is called the unique or only-begotten son of Abraham, cf. Heb 11:17, but he was not his only son, because it is written that he had eight sons: Ishmael, Isaac, Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah, Gen 16:15; 21:3; 25:1-2).
John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (The oldest manuscripts have: μονογενὴς θεὸς = a unique God, thus Christ is declared God, even though His divinity could not be seen, as it was ”veiled” in human nature).
John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
John 3:8 "....So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten (= unique) Son....”
John 3:18 "...because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten (= unique) Son of God.”
1 Corinthians 4:15 ”...yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.” (clearly a figurative ”birth from Paul”)
Philemon 1:10 ”...my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten while in my chains...”
1 Peter 1:3 ”...God ..... has begotten us again to a living hope ...”
1 John 3:9 ”Whoever has been BORN OF GOD does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been BORN OF GOD.”
1 John 4:7 ”...and everyone who loves is BORN OF GOD and knows God.”
1 John 4:9 ”...that God has sent His only begotten (=unique) Son into the world...”.
1 John 5:1 ”Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is BORN OF GOD, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.”
1 John 5:4 ”For whatever is BORN OF GOD overcomes the world.”
1 John 5:18 ”We know that whoever is BORN OF GOD does not sin; but He who has been BORN OF GOD keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
Be faithful to the Scripture! It is our only safety as a source of faith.
The longer the explanation the troublesome it becomes..."For God so loved so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son...John 3 :16...he was already the Son before his incarnation...ain't that simple enough?..why do you have to go on on a tirade?
Read the Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop
Those are the same pagan that gives us Jesus...the pagan God
Antitrinitarian fight not the good fight of the Christian faith, but it is a Jewish, Islamic, unitarian, liberal or sectarian „Christian” spirit. The whole presentation of Dustin Butler is just speculation, both logical and absurd reasoning, conspirational and „reform” mentality. It should not be accepted, no matter how many EGW and other pioneers’ quotations will he bring. Our SDA theologians and historians deserve more credit. Especially the Bible, as it is corporately understood and promoted, is our doctrinal standard.
Your commentary is just an attack to the speaker's address. You didn't provide any proof to what you say or any other method to validate your statement. So I should believe you just because you use some complex words or the one witch provides quotes and actual proof?
The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Catholic Church, pp. 72,73 said, "The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father." By this confession, the church recognizes the Father as "the source and origin of the whole divinity"....The council of Florence in 1438 explains: "The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; ...He proceeds eternally from both as from one principle and through one spiration,... And since the Father has through generaton given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, exept being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son."
For the Catholic Church, The "Father as the source of the whole divinity" because for them the Son is eternally born of the Father, and the origin of the Spirit in not unconnected with the Son's origin. Same teaching with your group
😁🤣
Oh, how I wish you'd get new glasses - or ?something? - to help avoid the all-too-frequent mistakes in the simple reading of your PRECIOUS QUOTATIONS! This message is SO IMPORTANT -- it bears precision nigh PERFECTION so that nay-sayers will have less over which they might quibble!
Oh well - lots of good stuff here, if one has the GRACE to gloss over so many blunders. (Actually, it seems that one "page" must have been so obvious that it bore an outright DO-OVER....)
Blessings on your efforts!!!
False teacher 100%
This is funny. He's quoting all these people in the past, and it means nothing because they didn't know either. Think they knew more than you do? They didn't have a fraction of info available as you do on the internet. Everyone assumes some one else must have known. Ha ha
No one knows., ha ha.
It was written from a jewish oppressed tribe, influenced by multiple neighboring nations. Repeatedly orally, possibly forged. Influence in greco roman, then translated by a power hungry corrupt church who hand picked which books you get to have. And your worried about what??
Ja ja ja ja ja