I went through UPT in Laredo in 1971. Jimmy Doolittle III (grandson of the WWII general) was one of our instructors. On one mission we were coming in behind Doolittle and his student on final, and the student aero-braked too soon and popped up off of the runway. The airplane ended up in a full stall with the left wing down about 10 feet off the runway. The only surface still flying was that huge rudder, and Doolittle jammed the right rudder pedal to the floor, forcing the T-38 to slam down in a 3-point landing. It was a marvelous thing to see. So the rudder could save your life too if used properly.
Great info. My son has a 12ft long RC model of the 38. Early in his flying of it he had a fan come off of his electric motor. It cut his ailerons wires so he had no roll control. I told him use the rudder. He made a 270 degree turn and landed on the center line of the runway. So yep the rudder is very effective on a T-38 full size or 1/4 scale😊
Three, thank you for sharing this captivating video! Not only is it a riveting story, but it also serves as an exceptional flying tutorial. Aspiring pilots can learn valuable lessons from your experience. Keep up the great work and fly safe! ✈👍
I always wanted to fly a T-38/F-5. My dad was a Block 5 jet engine mechanics instructor at Sheppard AFB in 1968-1970. I've sat in the cockpit of a T-33 when I was 10 years old
How hard was the student in the other aircraft working to follow you through the maneuvers since they didn't know how you were using the rudder? This is a great story.
Not one student, or IP in the other aircraft (Nr. 2) ever realized we were flying the extended trail profile using rudder only. Until the debriefing...
Yes indeed, the rudder *will* kill you…still, the biggest threat in the 38 was the student. Especially if he was dancing on the rudder pedals in the final turn.
Exactly! We used to say that the only difference between a North Vietnamese gunner and a UPT student was, on graduation day the student 'thought' he liked you! Welcome to Three's in!
400 miles is a good "ballpark" range for the '38, giving you gas for a couple approaches at your destination. However, I have "squeezed" a couple-3 of 700 mile legs out of it. (Always Eastbound, in winter!).
@@threesin7107 Well just One "almost multi" - add maintenance and you're close. Flew her in 1964. Vietnamese liked it or the F5 version but loved the T 37 conversation better.
Rudder is awesome. I could use it to slice down and get the shot much quicker. In the F-16 it made the difference in ACM with another 16. 99% do not use rudder in a 16. A quick jab can answer an angles issue much quicker. In some situations it was quicker than over banking, pulling then rolling back. Just don’t assault 2 limiters at the same time.
Holloman AFB at fighter lead in put mini gun pods on the AT-38B for certain sorties. Also, in a short close pattern with an aggressive pull up, a bit of “nose down” rudder helped square the climb.
A friend had a T-38 rudder on his garage wall……?? well the jet tried to kill him on a fcf flight, he jumped, and he was able to acquire that piece of the wreckage.
High Time IPs of High Performance Aircraft have something called Functional Nuance. And Oral Questions only God can answer. This is why a SP should never ...never...NEVER...get cocky in an Oral, Stand or Check Ride. As an IP can BUST anyone !!!! Anyone!!!!
Interesting perspective, thanks. I could tolerate an IP, Check Pilot or Stan Eval Pilot who would berate or humiliate a SP or rated pilot on a ground eval. I actually relieved a couple of my check pilots for maltreatment of SPs. On another note, we used to laugh about not ever wanting to take a Tweet eval vs. a '38 eval. We felt that Tweet pilots took a relatively simple aircraft and made their evals nightmares while 38 guys tended to simplify their ground evals...
A "little more" than I had intended to go into with this story but very informative just the same. Thank you, I learned something, though I doubt I should ever need it! I love the 'bag' in the jet behind your picture here! Cheers, Bobo
I went through UPT in Laredo in 1971. Jimmy Doolittle III (grandson of the WWII general) was one of our instructors. On one mission we were coming in behind Doolittle and his student on final, and the student aero-braked too soon and popped up off of the runway. The airplane ended up in a full stall with the left wing down about 10 feet off the runway. The only surface still flying was that huge rudder, and Doolittle jammed the right rudder pedal to the floor, forcing the T-38 to slam down in a 3-point landing. It was a marvelous thing to see. So the rudder could save your life too if used properly.
Wow! What a "crowd-pleaser" event! Imagine what went through the RSU Controller's mind! Thanks for your comment here!
Great info. My son has a 12ft long RC model of the 38. Early in his flying of it he had a fan come off of his electric motor. It cut his ailerons wires so he had no roll control. I told him use the rudder. He made a 270 degree turn and landed on the center line of the runway. So yep the rudder is very effective on a T-38 full size or 1/4 scale😊
Now that is a great story also, thanks for sharing!
Three, thank you for sharing this captivating video! Not only is it a riveting story, but it also serves as an exceptional flying tutorial. Aspiring pilots can learn valuable lessons from your experience. Keep up the great work and fly safe! ✈👍
Thank you, and you captured another one of my motivations for producing this channel!
I agree. Lot's to think about here in GA.
I like this video, great explanation, my dad was stationed in Sheppard and i can still remember seeing the 38's flying over 😆
I always wanted to fly a T-38/F-5.
My dad was a Block 5 jet engine mechanics instructor at Sheppard AFB in 1968-1970. I've sat in the cockpit of a T-33 when I was 10 years old
Cool!
my sister flew in one, when I wuz 10
The 38 did a great barrel roll with a bit of rudder trim and a little back stick.
It truly did! I can sit here in my lounge chair, close my eyes and enjoy it all over again! Thanks for the reminder!
Love the F5 & T38
Good listen thanks sir.
Thanks for stopping by! More to follow!
Seen a student run off the runway at Williams AFB in a T-38.
T-38/F-5 still beautiful aircraft!
Welcome to "Three's In!".
How hard was the student in the other aircraft working to follow you through the maneuvers since they didn't know how you were using the rudder? This is a great story.
Not one student, or IP in the other aircraft (Nr. 2) ever realized we were flying the extended trail profile using rudder only. Until the debriefing...
Yes indeed, the rudder *will* kill you…still, the biggest threat in the 38 was the student. Especially if he was dancing on the rudder pedals in the final turn.
Exactly! We used to say that the only difference between a North Vietnamese gunner and a UPT student was, on graduation day the student 'thought' he liked you! Welcome to Three's in!
Great video!
Actually, after a bit more thought, it's not the misuse of the rudder that kills folks; it's that damned ground!
@@threesin7107 🤣 Very true!
Whoa ! nice teaching. Subscribed !
Thank you.
Will there be a part II
Actually, yes.
Yeah!!!@@threesin7107
Retired pilot here... Too much rudder on ANY airplane will kill you. Re: V-tail Bonanza. Baron. Twin Cessna. Beech 18. Lear Jet.
Truth!
Except in the Phantom where at very high AOA using the ailerons will depart the plane. F-4 was an all rudder plane at high AOA.
TRUE!!!....LMMFAO!!!...Too much rudder on my 172 could groundloop me.
Too much rudder=Applying it when it's not needed or overuse.
Fighting with the AT-38B, the rudder was effective during jinking/slow speed maneuvers.
Truly!
I always wanted a T38/F5.
But it only has a 400 mile range.
So, if I was rich, I'd buy a Mooney M20V Ultra. Really sweeeeet.
400 miles is a good "ballpark" range for the '38, giving you gas for a couple approaches at your destination. However, I have "squeezed" a couple-3 of 700 mile legs out of it. (Always Eastbound, in winter!).
Yep one hop 600 is easy.
@@threesin7107 As I recall the astronauts really pushed the range of the NASA -38's a few times.
Elbow to hand length on a high chart for fuel planning.
Used to two hop from McConnell in Kansas to CA no problem.
so how many g locks did you have doing unauthorized maneuvers in a multi million dollar aircraft?
ZERO! And the T-38A was not a "multi-million dollar aircraft." In 1961 it cost $756,000. Pretty good deal, huh!
@@threesin7107 Well just One "almost multi" - add maintenance and you're close. Flew her in 1964. Vietnamese liked it or the F5 version but loved the T 37 conversation better.
Rudder is awesome. I could use it to slice down and get the shot much quicker. In the F-16 it made the difference in ACM with another 16. 99% do not use rudder in a 16. A quick jab can answer an angles issue much quicker. In some situations it was quicker than over banking, pulling then rolling back. Just don’t assault 2 limiters at the same time.
I looked at your channel. Are you a QB? Bobo
You ever do any ground attack/close air support training in the T-38?
No, that wasn't in our syllabus. We used the T-38 as an 'advanced jet trainer,' covering the 'basics' of advanced jet flying.
Holloman AFB at fighter lead in put mini gun pods on the AT-38B for certain sorties. Also, in a short close pattern with an aggressive pull up, a bit of “nose down” rudder helped square the climb.
A friend had a T-38 rudder on his garage wall……?? well the jet tried to kill him on a fcf flight, he jumped, and he was able to acquire that piece of the wreckage.
Good morning! I have an FCF story, from Reese, coming soon...stay tuned!
I went to school with a girl named Jessica rudder. Ty great video!
Wow that is so not even a ittle interesting or funny
@@slowery43 it wasn't meant to be.. it is true
High Time IPs of High Performance Aircraft have something called Functional Nuance. And Oral Questions only God can answer. This is why a SP should
never ...never...NEVER...get cocky in an Oral, Stand or Check Ride. As an IP can BUST anyone !!!! Anyone!!!!
Interesting perspective, thanks. I could tolerate an IP, Check Pilot or Stan Eval Pilot who would berate or humiliate a SP or rated pilot on a ground eval. I actually relieved a couple of my check pilots for maltreatment of SPs. On another note, we used to laugh about not ever wanting to take a Tweet eval vs. a '38 eval. We felt that Tweet pilots took a relatively simple aircraft and made their evals nightmares while 38 guys tended to simplify their ground evals...
I fly by rudder alone when I’m refilling my Gatorade
Makes sense to me! Thanks for tuning in to Three's In!
I was with Boeing when we upgraded the T38 to Glass cockpits at Ole Willy. I was Egress. The engines on those were the worst. 😅 Love the stories.
Ham boot that rudder.
Maybe twice with me; the first, and the last time! LOL!
Proverse roll- roll induced by yaw. Opposite of adverse yaw- yaw induced by uncoordinated roll.
A "little more" than I had intended to go into with this story but very informative just the same. Thank you, I learned something, though I doubt I should ever need it! I love the 'bag' in the jet behind your picture here! Cheers, Bobo