The Incriminating History of Priestly Celibacy - The Magisterium's Mess
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- In this video, I show why the implementation of Priestly celibacy is itself a good argument against magisterial authority. I hope this video helps move the conversation forward!
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You are probably in my top 5 favorite UA-cam channels right now. This is SO good.
the atheist channels are better, they aren't pretending god is real.
This topic is a good example on how many today simply accept positions of the past while failing to understand how the past thinkers reasoned and arrived at such a position. "Such and such person, group, or council believed this so I'll believe it." But they don't actually know if those person's reason or arguments are any good (sometimes they are and sometimes they're not).
if only it weren't all just hot air, no one has even established if god is real yet.
Thank you for this video this topic is very important:
1 Timothy 4: But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will *fall away from the faith* , paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by the hypocrisy of liars, who have been seared in their own conscience, 3 *who forbid marriage* and advocate abstaining from foods which God created to be shared in with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. (LSB)
That was very interesting! I had no idea they so flagrantly opposed the Biblical teaching on marriage and sex, even to the point of ordering married priests to divorce and subject their own children to slavery
In their minds it wasn't a divorce because Rome had the ability to retroactively say they are invalid (even in the absence of any prior formal declaration)
@@anglicanaesthetics interesting - that makes sense. I mean it does fit with their overall perspective and system but it definitely still rests in defiance of the clear Biblical teaching and precedent.
@@anglicanaesthetics I had read some historical source that about some married pastors opposing those who were insisting on celibacy during the middle aged, and they argued the pro-celibacy people were pro-sodomite. So it was a reversal of the charge that it was the married pastors who were wicked. I still am looking for that source. Are you familiar or could point me in the right direction? I'm also looking for a historical source I recall seeing many years ago that talked about how many regular Spanish lay people could actually say the Creed when questioned. Any ideas?
The whole thing It reminds me of Thomas Moore and his hatred for Luther's wife.
How did the Church flagrantly oppose the Biblical teaching on marraige and sex?
@@sterlingstafford2671 by first turning marriage and sex, which God called good and created as the norm for all people, into a disdained thing which was regarded as being for those who couldn't control themselves - for those weak in the faith. And then explicitly defying scripture where Paul actively commands that elders and deacons be married by mandating that all clergy be unmarried and even going so far as to force those who are married to separate and for their children to become slaves of the church.
This is why (along with other reasons) i am an Anglo catholic and not and anglo papists. Rome is not the goal for the Anglican and we where right to seperate from them.
you can be whatever you want, none of it is real. start your own religion if you want to, no one can stop you, and god certainly won't he couldn't care less who believes what according to this channel, he never explains anything to anyone, all this channel does is pretend to answer questions god isn't
Children actually help theology. I agree with you but have to disagree on that. Reading Scripture with children and praying with them and following the one another's and other commands, and loving the one you can see who was given by the invisible one. It's actually a weird idea that if you have kids or a wife you can't study. We know that many scholars have shown otherwise. Andrew Willet was a great scholar and had tons of kids and played with them when he wasn't studying. And singing and playing music. Rome is still forbidding marriage. I'm glad to see criticism of their view. Eastern Orthodox actually forbids marriage too but just to less people.
For sure--I don't want to say that you can't study theology if you're married (otherwise I'd be in trouble!). But you do have less time to give to the disciplined study of theology. However, as you point out, that doesn't mean your life with God loses out or that kids can't show you amazing aspects of God's character. Parenting definitely facilitates union with Christ.
@@anglicanaesthetics thanks for explaining. Maybe it depends on the circumstances of the person and how much child care they provide and the age of the child perhaps? I mean if we are talking about a single father with a newborn or a father whose kid is in school and the mother does 60 percent of the child care? If we are talking about comparing a pastor with no kids vs a pastor with kids and provides little to no child care? I don't know how you are defining disciplined theology - if you mean like a pastor with wife and kids, I mean thats like a 40 to 60 hour job in modern times right? Lots of married people go to college when they have kids and lots of non pastors and non seminary students work 40 to 80 hour jobs and still provide child care. I would think it would just depend on the circumstances of the person. Maybe it's the more modern leisurely idea that one reads silently to themselves in a completely quiet office, rather then having wife and children in a one bedroom house? I have read that American fathers are proving more child care then their parents did. Then you have preachers and pastors that work 40 hour job and also preach. And you read about those preachers who had wife and 7 kids and preached twice a day.
Helpful and insightful. Thank you
A couple questions about the video, no worries if you don't have time to answer all these. :)
1) What copy of the canons of the 1021 Council of Pavia are you using? I'm having trouble finding the canons, and I'm finding that different sources date that council differently; some say 1018, some say 1022. Is the council you're referring to the one that was presided over by Pope Benedict VIII? There is very little data about it online; if you could share some of your sources that would be very helpful and strengthen your argument, especially since it seems to be the only of those pro-celibacy councils that mandates slavery.
2) What impact do the regional natures of the Pavia and Rome councils have on your argument against magisterial infallibility? Could it be that these councils were addressing particular local issues, or is there evidence that the councils were applied broadly to all the faithful? Can a regional synod that errs invalidate Rome's universal claims to magisterial infallibility, even if that council isn't applied universally? Or is this more an argument against papal infallibility?
3) Isn't it the same thing to say that celibacy is "solid food for the spiritually mature" and that celibacy is a "higher state"? Is celibacy only a "higher state" to Paul because it means he has less distractions from his ministry or is there deeper theological significance to that? Is there a way to objectively affirm that celibacy is a higher state than marriage without demonizing sex?
4) I imagine the answer is no, but was there an option for married priests to step down from their ministry and remain married? Or were they forced to lay aside their wives and continue in the priesthood?
Beautifully said Sean! We all have our own callings from the Lord. Some will be celibate, some will be married and have families. I’m sure Luther never imagined he would one day be married with children while he was beating himself to death in the monastery. God loves giving gifts and blessings to His children when the time is right. Why would the Roman Church after the Great Schism think otherwise, other than for nefarious purposes?
I think at a minimum it shows that there are negative consequences to having an over inflated ecclesiology. Aka Roman error has had consequences
it never fails to astonish me, grown men discussing whether santa will bring you toys or put
you on the naughty list if you fail to obey. grow up ffs.
//
@HarryNicNicholas
3 weeks ago
it never fails to astonish me, grown men discussing whether santa will bring you toys or put
you on the naughty list if you fail to obey. grow up ffs.//
Did you forget to take your meds? No one mentioned santa here.
which council of Pavia? there were 3 in the 11th century...
The one in 1021 AD
What is your source? I want to read the council at Pavia (which is not under full authority of all the bishops Magisterium(not ecumenical). Also, are you ignoring the circumstances of the abuse of priest's power to give the church money and goods to their children?
Hard to find this thing about children being slave
Thanks, it's fascinating! This is very good, but I kind of regret that you don't give exact references to sources when quoting.
have you done a video on utraquism?
ua-cam.com/video/u50CjrE4s_0/v-deo.html
@@anglicanaesthetics this is one of the biggest signs for me why the church of Rome's claims aren't true
Both the Lord Jesus and the Apostle Paul taught that the best servants of the Church are those who are celibate for the sake of dedicating themselves to that service (not just for time to study theology as you said). The Church has the right to choose her priests from among those who are dedicated to the service of the Lord by celibacy. When the Church was founded, it had servants who were already married, but in time there were more people who were voluntarily celibate from whom the clergy could be chosen. Bishops would be chosen from those who had shown ability to manage the "household" of the faithful either in parishes or in a monastic setting.
I'm not arguing that consecrating oneself via celibacy to the Lord is illicit. It's a good thing. But for all the reasons I mentioned in the video, the church cannot mandate this and then proceed to enslave priest's children