Thanks Again for more great info.I really appreciate The way you keep simple In your delivery in your delivery. As a trucker that got his ticket mainly to get away from the crap on enough,I really enjoy the fact that you present all of this purposely in a manner for the average Joe to not only understand it,but thoroughly enough to make use of it.as opposed to LOOK HOW SMART I AM,HOW YOUR DOING IT WRONG AND I JUST WANTED EVERYONE TO KNOW THAT.73.KE5SRB
Very interesting video. Really good information. The HSMM-MESH addresses the communication of data in a really innovative way. Look forward to your videos on field (tactical) deployment testing and further exploration into this method of off grid communications. Thanks for sharing.
We can actually encrypt our mesh's. The FCC rules state that encrytion cannot be used to "obscure" conversations. However, part 97 (part97.113) allows us the ability to make sure we secure our communications so non-hams cannot use our network when part 15 commercial equipment shares some common frequencies with the ham equipment. To those ends we can indeed encrypt out network as long as the encryption key is made available for other ham operators. In other words, Part 97.113(e) and it is also implied in 97.105, allows us to ecrypt our network to keep Part 15 device information from being re-transmitted by a ham network. Intent is the key. We are not encrypting to "obscure" the conversation, but rather encrypting to secure our Part 97 network from Part 15 transmissions as required by the FCC and the law.
+thallium200 I thought the reason they banned encryption is so the government can monitor communications. Does this mean that the government does not have to be given the key; only other HAM operators?
The guys in Albuquerque love them. They have a pretty large setup running from what I remember talking to some of the guys at Duke City. While I hate to say it…I pretty much gave up on the setup about 3 years ago. It has it's negative aspects but also it's pluses. Plus, it runs off of 12V. Negative, mobile 2.4 GHz antennas are not extremely practical (most of them either aren't tall enough to clear luggage rack rails or don't offer practical amounts of gain for a 19 dBm transmitter). I'm holding off for some 900 MHz mesh equipment to become more practical.
I would like to see the setup perform voip, video, and site hosting between neighbors. Since it's hsmm-high speed multi media, I would love to see it in action.
***** I do not have a reply option with your comments (you need to change one of your settings). When setting up Paclink you have to create "tactical call signs" for each PC in the Paclink program. You will also need to permit LAN accessible in the Paclink setup. When setting up the pop3 clients you need to enter the IP address for the computer running Paclink in the POP and SMTP server settings. If you also want to check email with the PC also running Paclink you set the POP and SMTP settings to "localhost." CommsPrepper
Its fine and dandy that the routers are able to be tuned into a ham frequency, but isnt it theoretically possible that the exact same functionality could be obtained with these routers on channels that everyone is allowed to operate them on and furthermore not have to abide by the encryption rules for the ham channels? Im sure that the fact that these being able to be tuned to a ham frequency is what inspired the project of writing the custom firmware for the routers but honestly I do not see any reason that this functionality is frequency dependant.
Very Good Video Brother. Informative & Helpful to those who are not familiar with this system setup. Hope you & your family are keeping well. God Bless Savvas
I tend to have bad luck setting up Thunderbird. Can you explain a bit about that? I'm trying the same set up as you basically, I have the Broadband Hamnet firmware on the router, so basically what you've done is loaded paclink (what are the settings for that?) and you have Thunderbird-the settings here ask for an email address and such, but like this, I'm using it offline. Can you explain settings in both of these as I pretty much can't get them to talk. Thanks!
I have thought about remoting an HF rig on the mountain ridge to the east of my QTH and wondered if I cold use these routers to pass rig control and voip. Might make a fun project just to do it. Great video.
I see 2.4 GHz antennas advertised in various catalogs. Would it be possible to wire these little Yagis up to the routers to increase gain and directivity?
To the best of my knowledge (no, I'm not a lawyer), you don't *HAVE* to be an amateur radio operator to use HSMM-mesh, just don't enter a call sign in the "node name" box and stick to part 15 rules. Yes, you're limited on power, but even with the restrictions, you can create a 60 watt EIRP point-to-point link
This software is created specifically for amateur radio users. It modifies the radio to work on the amateur band of wifi. So you can't use this software specifically, but there are other software that allows you to that would follow part15.
***** Yes, this firmware is designed specifically for amateur radio operators (I am one), but the only thing really special about this firmware is that it beacons the node name every few minutes (5 I believe). The instructions say to include your call sign in the node name thereby, by beaconing the node name, IDing the radio and keeping it in line with Part 97 requirements. If you desire to have a Part 15 mesh, you may leave your call sign out of the node name and (preferably) change the SSID. Now you have a legal Part 15 mesh network while still using "ham" software. In case of emergencies, you can simply rename the SSID and include your call sign in the node name and instantly have a Part 97 node. As a side note, I have a legal Part 15 mesh using HSMM-Mesh firmware and was actually encouraged to do so by the software designers for my purpose (experimentation and passing full internet connection to remote/mobile locations). This also allowed for me to experiment before getting my license and allow friends/family to exeriment along with me even though they are unlicensed. Again, you can run this firmware on a device as a Part 15 network.
***** Matt - Any chance you can send me a link that talks about the Part 97 vs. Part 15 use? I think these can be more useful in a non-Amateur mode. CommsPrepper
Commsprepper I don't have a one-stop-shop for the info I gathered, so I'll just paste some info & links in the comments. As long as you are compiling with the part 15 rules (since you do not yet have a Amateur Radio License) you can still run these as BBHN Nodes. Once you have your license you could potentially kick up the power once you put your callsign in the node name fields. Open-wrt, DD-WRT and Tomato are all firmware updates to the WRT. People have been using these for years under part 15. Here is some info that pertains to Part 15 2.4GHz wireless bridges. The point I would like you to take from this page is the sliding power output chart. A WRT54G product can only, at best, put out 24dBm, so if you match that with a 24dBi antenna, you now have a 60+ watt EIRP node that from my research is legal under Part 15 for point to point links. www.countrymilewifi.com/how-to-set-a-bridge.aspx This link may also provide some useful information. www.qsl.net/kb9mwr/projects/wireless/plan.html I also learned alot by reading an ebook called Wireless Networking in the Developing World. wndw.net/download/WNDW_Standard.pdf Hope this information helps. I'll keep sharing related information with you.
Can the firmware raise the power levels far enough to communicate at a distance? (IE a few miles?) Or do you need special antennas/equipment to do that? What about USB wifi antennas connected to a Raspberry Pi? Can power levels be raised by the software or do you have to connect an antenna to an antenna jack on certain types of USB wifi sticks and use special equipment and such?
Thanks for the experimenting and sharing, we learn a great deal! But the first question that pops in my mind with this video is: Why reflash a bunch of the same routers when everybody has a ready to go node via.... wifi-band... If everybody shares a part of their network (with all the different routers) you are done... I know you can boost the linksys' power (I have one with wrt) but that doesnt help stability. Isnt it easier to have more nodes (via different routers) than a few nodes because not all can have the same one?
Peter Enis I think the niche here is the MESH is established and maintained via the wireless side of the router vice a traditionally network where the "MESH" is created via cable.
+Commsprepper, wow.... thats a fast reply! So if I understand you correctly you setup a network with self-regulating-self-maintence nodes on devices wich are always on (i.e. routers)?
Awesome video, myself and a few of the local amateurs in virginia have been able to setup a 30 mile link. Primarily using the ubiquity hardware and the software they've developed for that.
I'm in VA. too but there are no nodes in my area (Fairfax County). Can I ask what you guys are using for chat and video? I can't seem to find programs that are not encrypted. CommsPrepper
Commsprepper Right now no video, I'm supposed to setup a chat/video client, and have been looking at using Jabber, Openfire has a nice client that integrates all that. However I had issues trying to get the video bit to work. I really want something decentralized though and I don't know if any software is out like that. It can also do voice, but we have an asterisks server running on a rasberry pi. So we have our own VoIP setup on it. I know there are groups up that way that are trying to get something setup in the fredericksburg area. I did a quick search and KE4HGN is working on something. His website is roteno .com. Another resource is this: www.remoteamateur.com/ClubPages/Virginia.aspx
***** I tried to google Focus Phone and could not find a link. Could you share that? Also, can you advise how to add options within the MESH software? Thanks. CommsPrepper
Problem with that set up is you have redundant mesh but not redundant server. And it literally a pain to set up. You should try qtox, utox, antox, antidote. You could chat. Send files, and even do video conference wothout having to set up all those ip's call sign and stuff. All you have to do is create username and share your generated keys. The software does all the set up for you. No need to input ip's. No centralized servers and it works offline.
You might want to check out andrew mcneil's UA-cam channel. He has videos about building a variety of 2.4GHz (and 5.8GHz) directional (and omnidirectional) antennas.
I am not sure how much time (money) I am going to invest in this project. I started it because there were so many requests but in my area there are no other hams to work this with. I may give the setup away in my next contest.
You might as well just set up a LAN with one router and several WAP's. With MESH, you are still on the 2.4Ghz band so its not like you are getting anything from using it over a standard LAN running on IPv4... well, that's not all true, you are getting way less interoperability, a big headache, less bandwidth, AND very restrictive rules to deal with. My vote; stick with standard networking for something like this. You can even get long distance directional antenna that will beam IP packets miles. MESH is fun to play with, but realistically it would be much easier to just stick with an IP based network; IE a router, WAPs, and some kind of a server to host services such as a small PBX for VoIP, a NAS, SMTP, etc... the possibilities are endless. Another benefit of doing this is that it would be easier to support BYOD since you dont have to have a special router for each endpoint... each new user can simply connect to your network like any other network. Now, where MESH makes sense is if you are already invested in HAM, have all the stuff, except for maybe the routers... at that point it would be cheaper to do do MESH but in the long run, and as a prepping item... yeah, you get the point.
Good stuff, I can see a future use for a system think this. However, I may have some questions about Thunderbird email because I have downloaded but I am still having issues using it.
Problem is that you need somebody to connect with. For this to be feasible, you need one ham every block in a urban environment to make this work. Unless you just want to make a mesh on your own property.
Richard - It's a cool project but I can't seem to find a use for it. I'm thinking I will give these away in my next 8K sub contest. Perhaps one of subs can make something cool with them. CommsPrepper
I could maybe see an EmComm use possibly. Maybe put them in Pelican cases so they could be put up on a hilltop? I'd be interested to see what the range is on them. How'd you connect them to your batteries?
Richard Slusher I just connected them to the batteries. The units are 12VDC and the batteries are also 12VDC. The MESH is great and you can see all the units once they map. The challenge is finding programs that are Part 97 compliant (i.e. no encryption bundled in the program). I will tinker with them a bit more, maybe make one more video, then give them away. I only did they video because I got several requests to make a video on MESH. The coolest thing I saw was the VOIP over the MESH but I would have to buy too many things to make that work.
Yeah, I've heard VOIP was an option; but it sounds like a lot more hassle than it's worth to be practical. Might not be too terrible of a thing to tinker with now and then and keep on the shelf. I'm gonna build a second one of my 30Ah battery boxes here soon. Then I'm going to start working on getting the foldable solar panel paired up with them.
+Amaroq64 Wow, that's a question with too many variables to actually answer. It would be dependant on power output at the antenna, type of antenna, antenna gain and what obsticles are between you and the antenna. Trees blocking the signal is the number one issue when using the 2.4gig band.
I don't know anything about radio yet, haha. Sorry for the bad question. Wow, so even something relatively soft like trees can block it? Which means if you live in a city with houses/buildings/etc, you are simply not going to be able to use this?
very cool. been looking at doing this with standard routers and yagi's. routers will be common place and act as a very secure line of site communication channel, with encryption built in automatically. I've not heard of mesh, but it's interesting as long as it provides additional protocal support . to include ip phones. standard router in my opion is going to give you way more options, you've also got a large number of ip capable devices like phone, IM,/chat, video services that you could continue to use or build from stuff found out in the space. establishing a "mesh" network would be the same as what most folks are doing with the routers they have in their home, with the difference being that you just connect them to each other and over longer distances in a "daisy" chain. maybe mesh is easier to setup but to be honest, some planning and directional antennas give you some great very secure comms.
Not strictly mail server. That was the only thing I could get to work that was Amateur radio Part 95 compliant. There are guys that have videos showing VoIP (phones) and chat services but they had the extra hardware to make those videos (I was working with what I had). It is worth checking out HSMM-MESH website www.broadband-hamnet.org/
Commsprepper cool,, thank you, I'm all for having lots of options, with stuff we find in the space. this falls into that catagory and looks like it is very well worth exploring. I've picked up more than a dozen linksys routers from the local thrift shop and never paid more the 7 bucks for them and what's awesome is they are 12v out of the box
It has been awhile but I recall that only early models of the 54G can be used. That may have changed in the past two years. Checking the HMSS-MESH webstie might help.
With quality external antennas you should get more out of them. The Wi-Fi power and antenna rules don't apply once you convert them into Amateur radio units.
Yes, the link listed above will give you some direction - also if you want more distance look at Ubiquiti Devices product line 5x power depending on the model indo or exterior - I have a system in Colordao that is made up of 2 Ubiquiti Bullets with concave antenna's that are separated by 25 miles, the 3rd and 4th systems are 1500ft apart and use Ubiquiti Nano's - we are running a video survalence system, "phone" system and txt message. Not screaming fast, I does workd very well
Michael Jordan Can you tell me what programs you are running for phone and text messaging? Also, can you tell me how you worked with the different subnets between nodes? I have been unable to get basic file and print sharing to work. Trying to come up with ideas how this can be used.
Commsprepper I was and am the hardware guy on this project, So I don't know the software side as well. I'll try and track down what we used, However it seems to me that it all came from www.broadband-hamnet.org, but I'll have to check my notes
Good thing I didn’t guess! As a computer network engineer and a prepper who is studying for his technician’s license I want to thank you for the great videos that have helped me in all three areas. I look forward to watching more.
m craig I looked into this a little. It seems the WRT54GL has a larger memory capacity than the WRT54G and is apparently designed for user installed operating systems. Being a network engineer I mistook this subtle difference since externally they appear identical. The WRT54G (Wireless RouTer 54Ghz.) family has long been used by many hobbyists for experimentation. You need to be careful there are 2 different versions with the same model number; the correct one has the external antennas. I checked on EBay and found the WRT54GLs for as little as $20 shipped along with a wide assortment of accessories. I want to be clear I have never used one of these routers for other than its original purpose as a wireless network router, I am no expert on modifying these routers. If you search UA-cam there are a lot of videos on the WRT54GL and how to modify it. There may be other routers that would work but with what I have seen now and in past this is a good router to convert. Right now I’m concentrating on my ham license and hope to be able to pass both the technician and general tests in about a month but now this is on my radar and I’ll have to get a couple of these routers and try and pit my own system together. The Commsprepper is doing a wonderful job showing us so many facets of radio communication and doing an outstanding job, I for one appreciate his efforts.
Have you tried setting up a MIRC server on 1 pc.. Yet. Mail is ok though becomes an issue when taking it out of context of service sorry under wifi you do need some form of encryption for data security ..
Can you use ctss/dcs on ham radio if you can that is encryption its lowest form for domestic use for local area so the fcc commenting you can't use aes becomes a standing joke as it is to an encryption.system in itself as far as I know I have yet to see a linksys 54 gl operate on 5 ghz given it is a 2.4 ghz transiiever when in wifi mode, unles you replace the wifi chipset with something that can be used in 5 ghz band I would think the chipset have to be upgraded..not to mention upgrading the connections to be compliant with roof mount antennas
Ham radio mesh networking has advanced a LOT since this video was recorded, and a lot has changed. Please consider pulling this video down due to its age. Thanks in advance!
Nice presentation - love the idea of a self-healing mesh for network resilience. You might also check out episode 18 of the QSO Today podcast [www.qsotoday.com/podcasts/k5ktf] had some good material on mesh networkings, including how to implement on routers currently in production and to use other bands including 900 Mhz.
Is there a way of powering the routers in a remote location or in a grid-down situation? I am guessing solar panels to keep the batteries charged would be ideal. Any suggestions?
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #1 НАЧАЛО ПУТЕШЕСТВИЯ [Новый сезон] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/380Q7gLWGvk/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you CP, we appreciate you taking the time away from family to put out good info. good stuff
Thanks Again for more great info.I really appreciate The way you keep simple In your delivery in your delivery. As a trucker that got his ticket mainly to get away from the crap on enough,I really enjoy the fact that you present all of this purposely in a manner for the average Joe to not only understand it,but thoroughly enough to make use of it.as opposed to LOOK HOW SMART I AM,HOW YOUR DOING IT WRONG AND I JUST WANTED EVERYONE TO KNOW THAT.73.KE5SRB
Bruce thanks for the positive feedback and taking the time tom comment. Respectfully - CommsPrepper
Very cool, I tell ya I learn something new every day. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment. CommsPrepper
Very interesting video. Really good information. The HSMM-MESH addresses the communication of data in a really innovative way. Look forward to your videos on field (tactical) deployment testing and further exploration into this method of off grid communications. Thanks for sharing.
We can actually encrypt our mesh's.
The FCC rules state that encrytion cannot be used to "obscure" conversations. However, part 97 (part97.113) allows us the ability to make sure we secure our communications so non-hams cannot use our network when part 15 commercial equipment shares some common frequencies with the ham equipment.
To those ends we can indeed encrypt out network as long as the encryption key is made available for other ham operators.
In other words, Part 97.113(e) and it is also implied in 97.105, allows us to ecrypt our network to keep Part 15 device information from being re-transmitted by a ham network.
Intent is the key. We are not encrypting to "obscure" the conversation, but rather encrypting to secure our Part 97 network from Part 15 transmissions as required by the FCC and the law.
+thallium200 I thought the reason they banned encryption is so the government can monitor communications. Does this mean that the government does not have to be given the key; only other HAM operators?
+Amaroq64
Search "N5DUX encryption is legal". You'll find a PDF in the search results that explains everything in greater detail than I did.
The guys in Albuquerque love them. They have a pretty large setup running from what I remember talking to some of the guys at Duke City.
While I hate to say it…I pretty much gave up on the setup about 3 years ago. It has it's negative aspects but also it's pluses. Plus, it runs off of 12V. Negative, mobile 2.4 GHz antennas are not extremely practical (most of them either aren't tall enough to clear luggage rack rails or don't offer practical amounts of gain for a 19 dBm transmitter).
I'm holding off for some 900 MHz mesh equipment to become more practical.
Not an easy technology for sure. I am still trying to meet up with an elmer on the topic to get my units to do something meaningful.
I would like to see the setup perform voip, video, and site hosting between neighbors. Since it's hsmm-high speed multi media, I would love to see it in action.
***** I do not have a reply option with your comments (you need to change one of your settings). When setting up Paclink you have to create "tactical call signs" for each PC in the Paclink program. You will also need to permit LAN accessible in the Paclink setup. When setting up the pop3 clients you need to enter the IP address for the computer running Paclink in the POP and SMTP server settings. If you also want to check email with the PC also running Paclink you set the POP and SMTP settings to "localhost." CommsPrepper
Great video. I am starting on this tonight. A great snow day project.
Cool. Let us know how it works! CommsPrepper
2 nodes up,and running.
Its fine and dandy that the routers are able to be tuned into a ham frequency, but isnt it theoretically possible that the exact same functionality could be obtained with these routers on channels that everyone is allowed to operate them on and furthermore not have to abide by the encryption rules for the ham channels? Im sure that the fact that these being able to be tuned to a ham frequency is what inspired the project of writing the custom firmware for the routers but honestly I do not see any reason that this functionality is frequency dependant.
Very Good Video Brother.
Informative & Helpful to those who are not familiar with this system setup.
Hope you & your family are keeping well.
God Bless
Savvas
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
I wish I could see the screen, converted a wrt54g the other day & guess I need to do another in order to see how these really work
AA1PR OH I forgot why paclink ?
How have been further tests?? Could there be a way to reprogram the router after the grid went down and no internet was available??
I tend to have bad luck setting up Thunderbird. Can you explain a bit about that? I'm trying the same set up as you basically, I have the Broadband Hamnet firmware on the router, so basically what you've done is loaded paclink (what are the settings for that?) and you have Thunderbird-the settings here ask for an email address and such, but like this, I'm using it offline. Can you explain settings in both of these as I pretty much can't get them to talk. Thanks!
I have thought about remoting an HF rig on the mountain ridge to the east of my QTH and wondered if I cold use these routers to pass rig control and voip. Might make a fun project just to do it. Great video.
It can been done - check out this link: www.broadband-hamnet.org/applications-for-the-mesh/158-remote-control-hf-rig-over-mesh.html
Commsprepper Ha. Cool. Thanks.
I see 2.4 GHz antennas advertised in various catalogs. Would it be possible to wire these little Yagis up to the routers to increase gain and directivity?
Yes. There are several videos on UA-cam with guys using old direct TV antennas, can antennas, yagi antennas, and whip high-gain antennas.
I meant crap on 11Mtr.sorry about. The poor typing.
To the best of my knowledge (no, I'm not a lawyer), you don't *HAVE* to be an amateur radio operator to use HSMM-mesh, just don't enter a call sign in the "node name" box and stick to part 15 rules. Yes, you're limited on power, but even with the restrictions, you can create a 60 watt EIRP point-to-point link
This software is created specifically for amateur radio users. It modifies the radio to work on the amateur band of wifi. So you can't use this software specifically, but there are other software that allows you to that would follow part15.
*****
Yes, this firmware is designed specifically for amateur radio operators (I am one), but the only thing really special about this firmware is that it beacons the node name every few minutes (5 I believe). The instructions say to include your call sign in the node name thereby, by beaconing the node name, IDing the radio and keeping it in line with Part 97 requirements. If you desire to have a Part 15 mesh, you may leave your call sign out of the node name and (preferably) change the SSID. Now you have a legal Part 15 mesh network while still using "ham" software.
In case of emergencies, you can simply rename the SSID and include your call sign in the node name and instantly have a Part 97 node.
As a side note, I have a legal Part 15 mesh using HSMM-Mesh firmware and was actually encouraged to do so by the software designers for my purpose (experimentation and passing full internet connection to remote/mobile locations). This also allowed for me to experiment before getting my license and allow friends/family to exeriment along with me even though they are unlicensed. Again, you can run this firmware on a device as a Part 15 network.
***** Matt - Any chance you can send me a link that talks about the Part 97 vs. Part 15 use? I think these can be more useful in a non-Amateur mode. CommsPrepper
Sure can. I'll have to look some stuff up again. I'll try to post some info tomorrow.
Commsprepper I don't have a one-stop-shop for the info I gathered, so I'll just paste some info & links in the comments.
As long as you are compiling with the part 15 rules (since you do not yet have a Amateur Radio License) you can still run these as BBHN Nodes. Once you have your license you could potentially kick up the power once you put your callsign in the node name fields. Open-wrt, DD-WRT and Tomato are all firmware updates to the WRT. People have been using these for years under part 15.
Here is some info that pertains to Part 15 2.4GHz wireless bridges. The point I would like you to take from this page is the sliding power output chart. A WRT54G product can only, at best, put out 24dBm, so if you match that with a 24dBi antenna, you now have a 60+ watt EIRP node that from my research is legal under Part 15 for point to point links. www.countrymilewifi.com/how-to-set-a-bridge.aspx
This link may also provide some useful information. www.qsl.net/kb9mwr/projects/wireless/plan.html
I also learned alot by reading an ebook called Wireless Networking in the Developing World. wndw.net/download/WNDW_Standard.pdf
Hope this information helps. I'll keep sharing related information with you.
Can the firmware raise the power levels far enough to communicate at a distance? (IE a few miles?) Or do you need special antennas/equipment to do that?
What about USB wifi antennas connected to a Raspberry Pi? Can power levels be raised by the software or do you have to connect an antenna to an antenna jack on certain types of USB wifi sticks and use special equipment and such?
+Amaroq64 Hams can.
Thanks for the experimenting and sharing, we learn a great deal! But the first question that pops in my mind with this video is: Why reflash a bunch of the same routers when everybody has a ready to go node via.... wifi-band... If everybody shares a part of their network (with all the different routers) you are done... I know you can boost the linksys' power (I have one with wrt) but that doesnt help stability. Isnt it easier to have more nodes (via different routers) than a few nodes because not all can have the same one?
Peter Enis I think the niche here is the MESH is established and maintained via the wireless side of the router vice a traditionally network where the "MESH" is created via cable.
+Commsprepper, wow.... thats a fast reply!
So if I understand you correctly you setup a network with self-regulating-self-maintence nodes on devices wich are always on (i.e. routers)?
Very cool!
Thanks. CommsPrepper
Awesome video, myself and a few of the local amateurs in virginia have been able to setup a 30 mile link. Primarily using the ubiquity hardware and the software they've developed for that.
I'm in VA. too but there are no nodes in my area (Fairfax County). Can I ask what you guys are using for chat and video? I can't seem to find programs that are not encrypted. CommsPrepper
Commsprepper Right now no video, I'm supposed to setup a chat/video client, and have been looking at using Jabber, Openfire has a nice client that integrates all that. However I had issues trying to get the video bit to work. I really want something decentralized though and I don't know if any software is out like that. It can also do voice, but we have an asterisks server running on a rasberry pi. So we have our own VoIP setup on it. I know there are groups up that way that are trying to get something setup in the fredericksburg area. I did a quick search and KE4HGN is working on something. His website is roteno .com. Another resource is this: www.remoteamateur.com/ClubPages/Virginia.aspx
***** I tried to google Focus Phone and could not find a link. Could you share that? Also, can you advise how to add options within the MESH software? Thanks. CommsPrepper
Commsprepper This might be useful, it has info on an alternative called linphone as well...
civies cant communicate via the node with hams
Problem with that set up is you have redundant mesh but not redundant server. And it literally a pain to set up. You should try qtox, utox, antox, antidote. You could chat. Send files, and even do video conference wothout having to set up all those ip's call sign and stuff. All you have to do is create username and share your generated keys. The software does all the set up for you. No need to input ip's. No centralized servers and it works offline.
You might want to check out andrew mcneil's UA-cam channel. He has videos about building a variety of 2.4GHz (and 5.8GHz) directional (and omnidirectional) antennas.
I am not sure how much time (money) I am going to invest in this project. I started it because there were so many requests but in my area there are no other hams to work this with. I may give the setup away in my next contest.
You might as well just set up a LAN with one router and several WAP's. With MESH, you are still on the 2.4Ghz band so its not like you are getting anything from using it over a standard LAN running on IPv4... well, that's not all true, you are getting way less interoperability, a big headache, less bandwidth, AND very restrictive rules to deal with. My vote; stick with standard networking for something like this. You can even get long distance directional antenna that will beam IP packets miles. MESH is fun to play with, but realistically it would be much easier to just stick with an IP based network; IE a router, WAPs, and some kind of a server to host services such as a small PBX for VoIP, a NAS, SMTP, etc... the possibilities are endless. Another benefit of doing this is that it would be easier to support BYOD since you dont have to have a special router for each endpoint... each new user can simply connect to your network like any other network. Now, where MESH makes sense is if you are already invested in HAM, have all the stuff, except for maybe the routers... at that point it would be cheaper to do do MESH but in the long run, and as a prepping item... yeah, you get the point.
Good stuff, I can see a future use for a system think this. However, I may have some questions about Thunderbird email because I have downloaded but I am still having issues using it.
Great video, Hank! I've got one of those old routers in my junk drawer. I guess I can add that to my To-Do list now too! :)
Problem is that you need somebody to connect with. For this to be feasible, you need one ham every block in a urban environment to make this work. Unless you just want to make a mesh on your own property.
Richard - It's a cool project but I can't seem to find a use for it. I'm thinking I will give these away in my next 8K sub contest. Perhaps one of subs can make something cool with them. CommsPrepper
I could maybe see an EmComm use possibly. Maybe put them in Pelican cases so they could be put up on a hilltop? I'd be interested to see what the range is on them. How'd you connect them to your batteries?
Richard Slusher I just connected them to the batteries. The units are 12VDC and the batteries are also 12VDC. The MESH is great and you can see all the units once they map. The challenge is finding programs that are Part 97 compliant (i.e. no encryption bundled in the program). I will tinker with them a bit more, maybe make one more video, then give them away. I only did they video because I got several requests to make a video on MESH. The coolest thing I saw was the VOIP over the MESH but I would have to buy too many things to make that work.
Yeah, I've heard VOIP was an option; but it sounds like a lot more hassle than it's worth to be practical. Might not be too terrible of a thing to tinker with now and then and keep on the shelf.
I'm gonna build a second one of my 30Ah battery boxes here soon. Then I'm going to start working on getting the foldable solar panel paired up with them.
What kind of maximum range between routers could one achieve (legally) if boosting transmission signals and using external antennas?
Some guys are getting twenty plus miles with directional gain antennas. I have not tested range.
BC ElginTex The present record is over 70 miles.
+thallium200 How far with omnidirectional antennas? Not necessarily the record, but the average/expected/etc.
+Amaroq64 Wow, that's a question with too many variables to actually answer. It would be dependant on power output at the antenna, type of antenna, antenna gain and what obsticles are between you and the antenna.
Trees blocking the signal is the number one issue when using the 2.4gig band.
I don't know anything about radio yet, haha. Sorry for the bad question.
Wow, so even something relatively soft like trees can block it? Which means if you live in a city with houses/buildings/etc, you are simply not going to be able to use this?
But to get any real distance out of this you would need to setup a repeater ?
10 miles sounds a little optimistic but I understand the theory. Thanks for responding.
gringogallego With a grid dish antenna you can easily do over 20 miles. The line of sight is real problem.
very cool. been looking at doing this with standard routers and yagi's. routers will be common place and act as a very secure line of site communication channel, with encryption built in automatically. I've not heard of mesh, but it's interesting as long as it provides additional protocal support . to include ip phones.
standard router in my opion is going to give you way more options, you've also got a large number of ip capable devices like phone, IM,/chat, video services that you could continue to use or build from stuff found out in the space. establishing a "mesh" network would be the same as what most folks are doing with the routers they have in their home, with the difference being that you just connect them to each other and over longer distances in a "daisy" chain. maybe mesh is easier to setup but to be honest, some planning and directional antennas give you some great very secure comms.
Not strictly mail server. That was the only thing I could get to work that was Amateur radio Part 95 compliant. There are guys that have videos showing VoIP (phones) and chat services but they had the extra hardware to make those videos (I was working with what I had). It is worth checking out HSMM-MESH website www.broadband-hamnet.org/
Commsprepper cool,, thank you, I'm all for having lots of options, with stuff we find in the space. this falls into that catagory and looks like it is very well worth exploring.
I've picked up more than a dozen linksys routers from the local thrift shop and never paid more the 7 bucks for them and what's awesome is they are 12v out of the box
What Linksys routers will work? Will anything else besides the WRT54GL models work?
It has been awhile but I recall that only early models of the 54G can be used. That may have changed in the past two years. Checking the HMSS-MESH webstie might help.
Thanks!
ok whats the range on your lil home brew net
I can't day. I have not done a range test yet. However, others using MESH are reporting on youtube 20-30 miles with gain antennas.
ElfNet Gaming
i think that answered my question not far
But isn't the range only a few hundred ed feet?
With quality external antennas you should get more out of them. The Wi-Fi power and antenna rules don't apply once you convert them into Amateur radio units.
does anyone know of any plans to migrate the software to 5Ghz band/equipment?
Not sure.Here is the list of supported hardware www.broadband-hamnet.org/section-blog/37-hardware-faqs/101-supported-hardware.html
Yes, the link listed above will give you some direction - also if you want more distance look at Ubiquiti Devices product line 5x power depending on the model indo or exterior - I have a system in Colordao that is made up of 2 Ubiquiti Bullets with concave antenna's that are separated by 25 miles, the 3rd and 4th systems are 1500ft apart and use Ubiquiti Nano's - we are running a video survalence system, "phone" system and txt message. Not screaming fast, I does workd very well
Michael Jordan Can you tell me what programs you are running for phone and text messaging? Also, can you tell me how you worked with the different subnets between nodes? I have been unable to get basic file and print sharing to work. Trying to come up with ideas how this can be used.
Commsprepper I was and am the hardware guy on this project, So I don't know the software side as well. I'll try and track down what we used, However it seems to me that it all came from www.broadband-hamnet.org, but I'll have to check my notes
anyway for me to contact you off the public list ?
does this work only on LINKSYS or can it be done with other routers? i.e. D-LINK
Camopreacher
Here is the link with the list of supported hardware. www.broadband-hamnet.org/section-blog/37-hardware-faqs/101-supported-hardware.html
Thank You !
Are those WRT54G Linksys router?
They are WRT54GL routers.
Good thing I didn’t guess! As a computer network engineer and a prepper who is studying for his technician’s license I want to thank you for the great videos that have helped me in all three areas. I look forward to watching more.
Does it have to be the WRT54GL model?
m craig
I looked into this a little. It seems the WRT54GL has a larger memory capacity than the WRT54G and is apparently designed for user installed operating systems. Being a network engineer I mistook this subtle difference since externally they appear identical. The WRT54G (Wireless RouTer 54Ghz.) family has long been used by many hobbyists for experimentation. You need to be careful there are 2 different versions with the same model number; the correct one has the external antennas. I checked on EBay and found the WRT54GLs for as little as $20 shipped along with a wide assortment of accessories. I want to be clear I have never used one of these routers for other than its original purpose as a wireless network router, I am no expert on modifying these routers. If you search UA-cam there are a lot of videos on the WRT54GL and how to modify it. There may be other routers that would work but with what I have seen now and in past this is a good router to convert. Right now I’m concentrating on my ham license and hope to be able to pass both the technician and general tests in about a month but now this is on my radar and I’ll have to get a couple of these routers and try and pit my own system together.
The Commsprepper is doing a wonderful job showing us so many facets of radio communication and doing an outstanding job, I for one appreciate his efforts.
You are absolutely correct I was mistaken. Thanks for correcting this I don’t ever intend to put out incorrect information.
Have you tried setting up a MIRC server on 1 pc.. Yet. Mail is ok though becomes an issue when taking it out of context of service sorry under wifi you do need some form of encryption for data security ..
Jason howe My channel is Amateur radio orientated. Use of encryption is not permitted in the Amateur radio service under FCC Part 97 rules.
Can you use ctss/dcs on ham radio if you can that is encryption its lowest form for domestic use for local area so the fcc commenting you can't use aes becomes a standing joke as it is to an encryption.system in itself as far as I know I have yet to see a linksys 54 gl operate on 5 ghz given it is a 2.4 ghz transiiever when in wifi mode, unles you replace the wifi chipset with something that can be used in 5 ghz band I would think the chipset have to be upgraded..not to mention upgrading the connections to be compliant with roof mount antennas
Could come in very useful.
Ham radio mesh networking has advanced a LOT since this video was recorded, and a lot has changed. Please consider pulling this video down due to its age. Thanks in advance!
Nice presentation - love the idea of a self-healing mesh for network resilience. You might also check out episode 18 of the QSO Today podcast [www.qsotoday.com/podcasts/k5ktf] had some good material on mesh networkings, including how to implement on routers currently in production and to use other bands including 900 Mhz.
WOOO !! PRE-5G rF .... w\WIFi terminals ...kinda ??
Is there a way of powering the routers in a remote location or in a grid-down situation?
I am guessing solar panels to keep the batteries charged would be ideal.
Any suggestions?
Solar should work fine if designed correctly.