I'm 25 years sober and have been to a LOT of meetings over the years. Anonymity has gone out the window and ego-driven people are leading/controlling the meetings. I've tried new places, new meetings and unfortunately, I'm not comfortable there anymore. the "absolutes" are intimidating and I'm amazed I'm still sober, based on their standards. I've never fit in, because I don't follow the crowd. I learned from the 12 steps and have moved on with my life. I'm here to support anyone who asks for help, but I will not pressure anyone to follow my steps "or else".
Dude your post is 100% spot on it exactly how I see it. I’m not saying there ain’t some you know common sense things in the ideas but boys got it right people control the meeting they basically want you to become a very big dependent. Now I got issue with drinking vodka and I’ve got to go ahead and get that behind me but I want to thank you for your post God bless and is always greetings from the state of Kentucky.
@@Americanpatriot-zo2tk Vodka about killed me. I was very grateful for the help I got at the beginning. It made so much difference after I made the decision to go to rehab and start over. Gotta be willing to get out of our comfort zone if we want change. So damned worth it to be liberated from the friggin ball and chain while running from everything.
@@Vashti0825 I wanna thank you for this post I just woke up in my sober living facility I’ve got a good amount of clean time behind me don’t ever want to go back vodka didn’t do a whole lot for me that was positive. Very encouraging God bless you and as always greetings from the state of Kentucky.
I first joined forty years ago at the age of 21. They said I would die if I left the program (I was self referred, working, healthy). Thank goodness now we have the internet.
Thanks, im struggling right now because I realized I was being sucked into the cult mentality of my local fellowship so I had to stop going but now I don’t have much of a support system at the moment.
The problem is people obsess about recovery too much. Everyone wants to know the answer. Everyone wants to claim they have FOUND the answer. There isn’t usually one single answer to obstacles in life. Mental illness is rampant in recovery. The most symptoms I see in myself, the more I notice the various mental illnesses others in recovery have, two of the key indicators being hypersensitivity and paranoia. People spend their whole lives trying to change their behaviors and trying to teach others to change their behaviors… the phrase “it’s all in your head” rings more true to me every second. Life is too short to waste it trying to accomplish the impossible- perfection. The beautiful thing about free will is power of choice. People in AA tend to subconsciously choose replacement therapy (food, promiscuity, adult content, caffeine, nicotine, money…) I do believe the vast majority of AA is people convincing themselves a program has changed them, when in fact they made their own choices, and would have done so regardless of participation. It’s about self glorification and being able to present to fellow followers their accomplishments that helps them, so essentially any group that has that method in itself would manufacture the same synthetic emotional phenomenon of gratification.
Wow i needed to hear that. Ive been struggling with wanting to stop going or not. First though I do say, it absolutely takes away the desire to drink, immediately for me. But I was in a high control religious group growing up so I'm very sensitive about any group that feels cultish. Like you said, they elevated Bill and Bob often as almost to a religious prophet status. The big book to an infallible holy book. They say, " if it's not in the big book beware of doing it". Really that's the only thing I felt wrong with it. Some groups say the Lord's our Father prayer, and some don't. That prayer is uncomfortable because what if people in there are Muslim or athiest, or agnostic... believing in a creator but not being contacted by God itself to know the right way to worship it. I do highly recommend going if you are wanting to quit drinking and wanting a great group of friends to care about you. I'll probably keep going, but because I was in a religious cult I do struggle occasionally. Thank you for your video.
The best way to decide😊 if AA is cult or not would be your definition of what a cult is. If you believe your attendance at that meeting is imperative for any success. Have to believe you can't challenge any tenants or the ideology, be in lock step with the group. Without their assistance and support you will soon lose all chances to succeed. Yup you're definitely in a cult
Who was raised; the principles are the same surrender control of your thoughts surrender control of your mind and now they’re bleeding other social implications into the meetings I’ll leave it at that.
I actually agree with this. I was in A.A. before and I hid in the rooms and didn’t work on other things. This time around I’m not doing that. I’m integrating faith and spiritual practices from my own practices and learning new things and applying them. I’m not hiding in the rooms. I’m using what I learned from my life experiences. I did sobriety with A.A. and without it. I’m going back because I want the social aspect but I’m not limiting myself. I’m going to grow however I can and I’m going to incorporate outside lessons into my recovery. The truly “recovered” alcoholic person does that. I’ve met some and they are recovered. Even the big book uses the word recovered a bunch of times. The 12 steps is about finding freedom not only from alcoholism. It’s finding freedom from limiting beliefs and finding a sense of right and wrong and reconciliation with our past and others and continuing to monitor our motives and not repeat the same mistakes we made many times over and over. So the problem is that A.A. is not looked at what it is really about. It’s way more than just staying sober.
Thank you for this reasoned take. The evangelical aspect of AA is what makes it feel cult like and it triggers the hell out of me. That being said, I have been involved in Recovery Dharma for the past 5 years and while it has a softer approach, I still recommend some people to AA because of the structure of meetings and the program. There is a dharma version of AA as well so replace dharma for Higher Power. For some, that's all it takes. Kevin Griffin whole a book called "One Breath At A Time - Buddhism & the 12 Steps". It's helpful for those of us with the issues around Christianity and evangelicalism. Again, thank you!
It’s definitely a society within a society. Some persons idolize the founders and the big book..as a woman of God, I often wonder why am I sitting there absorbing some of the things that are spoken and believed. My spirit tells me that it is not of God and anything that I place before God, is a sin. I can’t do that.
Human beings are social creatures and we need CULTures of like minded people, otherwise you are isolating and alone, the worst place for an alcoholic to be. You could argue anything is a cult. Is going to church a cult? Is joining a motorcycle club a cult? Is joining a sports team a cult? You could argue that's all similar to joining a recovery group. At the end of the day when people don't wanna go to AA because they think it's a cult.. I would say, that's EXACTLY why it works. And it does work. Your desire to drink will go away if you keep yourself in meetings, but it definitely feels like a type of self-improvement cult; however, there is no real obligation to stay, you can take your will back at any time, BUT, theirs a greater chance you will drink again. A recovery safety net is going to feel like a cult. You're going against mainstream society when you choose to quit drinking. Which is a good thing because mainstream society is nuts, they drink and poison themselves. But I would say overall it's a fellowship, not a cult. But I completely agree here, every meeting is different, it depends which one you go to. Some people probably do make it a cult.
I grew up in a cult & AA is heathen pagan ungodliness compared to actual cults, also remember how we begged & prayed for a way out when we were at deaths door, the psych ward, the police cell, the park bench, the utter loneliness & despair, next time you are being picky about which group is a cult
Just the fact that so many people have to ask if it's a cult tells you there's something terribly wrong with AA. The God bit is crazy and gives me the creeps. People in AA always counter with "It's a God of your own understanding." Well, that's still God. That thing they read at the beginning of all meetings-- "How It Works" is crazy religious talk: "There is one who has all power. That is God. May you find him now." Hearing that is a complete turn-off and gives me the creeps. Their Chapter to the Agnostic is nuts. It takes the view that if you don't believe in God now, you eventually will because you must. Not true. Just because AA does not fit the exact criteria for a strict definition of a cult does not mean that it's not a lot like one. The program is awful for people who don't believe in God.
The 12 steps can be helpful in some ways but the ideology is incredibly harmful. It's not the only way for people to get sober and you will not die or relapse if you decide to leave. It is highly reinforcing of religious/guilt driven traumas and has harmful limiting effects due to the fear based belief system tied to the program. I left after 7 years and that allowed me to actually heal the root causes of my dependency issues, which is trauma related. Addiction is not a disease, it is the result of deep rooted unhealed trauma.
I'm 25 years sober and have been to a LOT of meetings over the years. Anonymity has gone out the window and ego-driven people are leading/controlling the meetings. I've tried new places, new meetings and unfortunately, I'm not comfortable there anymore. the "absolutes" are intimidating and I'm amazed I'm still sober, based on their standards. I've never fit in, because I don't follow the crowd. I learned from the 12 steps and have moved on with my life. I'm here to support anyone who asks for help, but I will not pressure anyone to follow my steps "or else".
Dude your post is 100% spot on it exactly how I see it. I’m not saying there ain’t some you know common sense things in the ideas but boys got it right people control the meeting they basically want you to become a very big dependent. Now I got issue with drinking vodka and I’ve got to go ahead and get that behind me but I want to thank you for your post God bless and is always greetings from the state of Kentucky.
@@Americanpatriot-zo2tk Vodka about killed me.
I was very grateful for the help I got at the beginning. It made so much difference after I made the decision to go to rehab and start over. Gotta be willing to get out of our comfort zone if we want change. So damned worth it to be liberated from the friggin ball and chain while running from everything.
@@Vashti0825 I wanna thank you for this post I just woke up in my sober living facility I’ve got a good amount of clean time behind me don’t ever want to go back vodka didn’t do a whole lot for me that was positive. Very encouraging God bless you and as always greetings from the state of Kentucky.
Former member I was and still am suffering from the trauma of AA. I am sober because I chose to be not because of aa
I first joined forty years ago at the age of 21. They said I would die if I left the program (I was self referred, working, healthy). Thank goodness now we have the internet.
Thanks, im struggling right now because I realized I was being sucked into the cult mentality of my local fellowship so I had to stop going but now I don’t have much of a support system at the moment.
The problem is people obsess about recovery too much. Everyone wants to know the answer. Everyone wants to claim they have FOUND the answer. There isn’t usually one single answer to obstacles in life. Mental illness is rampant in recovery. The most symptoms I see in myself, the more I notice the various mental illnesses others in recovery have, two of the key indicators being hypersensitivity and paranoia. People spend their whole lives trying to change their behaviors and trying to teach others to change their behaviors… the phrase “it’s all in your head” rings more true to me every second. Life is too short to waste it trying to accomplish the impossible- perfection. The beautiful thing about free will is power of choice. People in AA tend to subconsciously choose replacement therapy (food, promiscuity, adult content, caffeine, nicotine, money…) I do believe the vast majority of AA is people convincing themselves a program has changed them, when in fact they made their own choices, and would have done so regardless of participation. It’s about self glorification and being able to present to fellow followers their accomplishments that helps them, so essentially any group that has that method in itself would manufacture the same synthetic emotional phenomenon of gratification.
Damn, that's so well put. Bravo.
Wow i needed to hear that. Ive been struggling with wanting to stop going or not. First though I do say, it absolutely takes away the desire to drink, immediately for me. But I was in a high control religious group growing up so I'm very sensitive about any group that feels cultish. Like you said, they elevated Bill and Bob often as almost to a religious prophet status. The big book to an infallible holy book. They say, " if it's not in the big book beware of doing it". Really that's the only thing I felt wrong with it. Some groups say the Lord's our Father prayer, and some don't. That prayer is uncomfortable because what if people in there are Muslim or athiest, or agnostic... believing in a creator but not being contacted by God itself to know the right way to worship it. I do highly recommend going if you are wanting to quit drinking and wanting a great group of friends to care about you. I'll probably keep going, but because I was in a religious cult I do struggle occasionally. Thank you for your video.
The best way to decide😊 if AA is cult or not would be your definition of what a cult is. If you believe your attendance at that meeting is imperative for any success. Have to believe you can't challenge any tenants or the ideology, be in lock step with the group. Without their assistance and support you will soon lose all chances to succeed. Yup you're definitely in a cult
Who was raised; the principles are the same surrender control of your thoughts surrender control of your mind and now they’re bleeding other social implications into the meetings I’ll leave it at that.
I actually agree with this. I was in A.A. before and I hid in the rooms and didn’t work on other things.
This time around I’m not doing that. I’m integrating faith and spiritual practices from my own practices and learning new things and applying them. I’m not hiding in the rooms.
I’m using what I learned from my life experiences. I did sobriety with A.A. and without it.
I’m going back because I want the social aspect but I’m not limiting myself. I’m going to grow however I can and I’m going to incorporate outside lessons into my recovery. The truly “recovered” alcoholic person does that. I’ve met some and they are recovered. Even the big book uses the word recovered a bunch of times. The 12 steps is about finding freedom not only from alcoholism. It’s finding freedom from limiting beliefs and finding a sense of right and wrong and reconciliation with our past and others and continuing to monitor our motives and not repeat the same mistakes we made many times over and over. So the problem is that A.A. is not looked at what it is really about. It’s way more than just staying sober.
Thank you for this reasoned take. The evangelical aspect of AA is what makes it feel cult like and it triggers the hell out of me. That being said, I have been involved in Recovery Dharma for the past 5 years and while it has a softer approach, I still recommend some people to AA because of the structure of meetings and the program. There is a dharma version of AA as well so replace dharma for Higher Power. For some, that's all it takes. Kevin Griffin whole a book called "One Breath At A Time - Buddhism & the 12 Steps". It's helpful for those of us with the issues around Christianity and evangelicalism. Again, thank you!
Thank you for articulating everything i was already feeling ❤️
Love the ongoing cult investigations!
It’s definitely a society within a society. Some persons idolize the founders and the big book..as a woman of God, I often wonder why am I sitting there absorbing some of the things that are spoken and believed. My spirit tells me that it is not of God and anything that I place before God, is a sin. I can’t do that.
Human beings are social creatures and we need CULTures of like minded people, otherwise you are isolating and alone, the worst place for an alcoholic to be. You could argue anything is a cult. Is going to church a cult? Is joining a motorcycle club a cult? Is joining a sports team a cult? You could argue that's all similar to joining a recovery group. At the end of the day when people don't wanna go to AA because they think it's a cult.. I would say, that's EXACTLY why it works. And it does work. Your desire to drink will go away if you keep yourself in meetings, but it definitely feels like a type of self-improvement cult; however, there is no real obligation to stay, you can take your will back at any time, BUT, theirs a greater chance you will drink again. A recovery safety net is going to feel like a cult. You're going against mainstream society when you choose to quit drinking. Which is a good thing because mainstream society is nuts, they drink and poison themselves. But I would say overall it's a fellowship, not a cult. But I completely agree here, every meeting is different, it depends which one you go to. Some people probably do make it a cult.
Thank you 🙏
Getting asked to pay has me thinking this is a business
Yes, its a cult and new age. I just go becuase I am mandated!!!!
Cult does not mean "To Worship". Why you lying?
Actually, if you look up the Latin (cultus)) and French (culte) origins of the word, it does mean worship.
I grew up in a cult & AA is heathen pagan ungodliness compared to actual cults, also remember how we begged & prayed for a way out when we were at deaths door, the psych ward, the police cell, the park bench, the utter loneliness & despair, next time you are being picky about which group is a cult
Just the fact that so many people have to ask if it's a cult tells you there's something terribly wrong with AA. The God bit is crazy and gives me the creeps. People in AA always counter with "It's a God of your own understanding." Well, that's still God. That thing they read at the beginning of all meetings-- "How It Works" is crazy religious talk: "There is one who has all power. That is God. May you find him now." Hearing that is a complete turn-off and gives me the creeps. Their Chapter to the Agnostic is nuts. It takes the view that if you don't believe in God now, you eventually will because you must. Not true. Just because AA does not fit the exact criteria for a strict definition of a cult does not mean that it's not a lot like one. The program is awful for people who don't believe in God.
The 12 steps can be helpful in some ways but the ideology is incredibly harmful. It's not the only way for people to get sober and you will not die or relapse if you decide to leave. It is highly reinforcing of religious/guilt driven traumas and has harmful limiting effects due to the fear based belief system tied to the program. I left after 7 years and that allowed me to actually heal the root causes of my dependency issues, which is trauma related. Addiction is not a disease, it is the result of deep rooted unhealed trauma.
AMEN