I was fighting a friend who was running two clan mechs vs my lance. Both my wolverines were down and I just had my locust and my C4 catapult. Miraculously, my locust had managed to survive every attack against it with only minimal damage, so against my friends heavily damaged Timberwolf, it was still a big threat. He has been closing on where my Catapult had been hidden behind some hills and My catapult was in danger from being attacked when he backed up because he determined it was his only chance to not be flanked... And he walked so he was exactly 7 spaces away. So, using my locust to shoot at his butt, I also used it as the spotter mech for my Catapult. I fired my first lrm20. Hit, I think for 12 missiles. They splatter all across the armor. Then my second LRM 20 hits... 19 missiles this time. On the last damage grouping of 4, I hit the previously damaged head taking our the last 3 points if armor and hitting his head with exactly one point of internal damage. Crit. Cockpit hit. I killed his pilot and win the game.
@@MechanicalFrog Indeed, my clanner friend now despises the Locust, and calls it "The Bug". I have a feeling this story is going to change how he deals with my light mechs from now on haha
First time l played the tabletop game, in a 2vs2 fight. My first shot was a AC20 to the head of my target, killing the pilot. Let's say that we all had a surprised laugh at that.
In my opinion, LRMs really come into their own when your fielding larger units with support. Battleforce comes to mind, but I've been in a few Battalion - scale Battletech campaigns as well. With larger units, strategy can take a higher role then small unit tactics, and having units dedicated to roles such as artillery spotting, and long range suppression. So do units such as LRM and SRM carriers. In smaller engagements, such as lance on lance, knowing how to deploy one's LRMs and when to back the hell up is crucial, especially if the machine(s) your using isn't fitted out for close combat, but I guess that would be Mech combat 101. As for a story, and we here at the Table do love our stories, one involving LRMs comes to mind: "Barkeep! Round on junior over there... Now, see. There was this young wannabe, back in the day. You know, back in the aught 20's when you damn near had to see the glow of their PPCs to hit anything, an' salvage was king. None of these shuckin' and chunkin' Mechs like they do theses days, you know. Anyway, this wannabe or was he a Wannamaker? Too many rounds, you know. "Anyway, this young fellar ends up bagging a CGR-01, which wasn't really all that hard. Hell, I heard of this gal over in Kuria space that gutted a Charger with nothing more then her Warhammer and a hard kick to the mid section... Anyway, this here youngster didn't like that small laser loadout that the CGR-01 made infamous, plus the only redeeming factor of the Mech, aside from being in the Assault class of big stompy robots, was it's speed. For a big, armored Dofuss, Chargers are quick. Actually live up to their name, eh, yeah, surprising I know. "So, this particular Mech had a really big hole in the back, left torso...or was it the right torso? I was the unit's chief tech back then and had stocked up some surplus LRM-10's, so he asks if I can mount one in the back. The Back, yeah, that's what I said. Ain't ever been done, I said. But he insisted and, in all honesty, couldn't come up with any reason why you couldn't. I mean, it wasn't like there were any hard rules sayin' you couldn't He also insisted on a weird paint job that left me scratching my head. "Well, the kid took a lot of flack from the unit an' the Captain, but still, a back mounted LRM-10 it was. So, a few months later an a pack of Davion's lads came callin' and a real brawl broke out. So there's the kid an' his weirded up Charger, standing in place and firing that LRM. So, it doesn't take long before several of those Davion's flanked him with the intention of attacking him in the back. They even got up close, only, it wasn't the back they were facing, now was it. Man, those small lasers aren't much o' a threat, one at a time, but four up close? I think that first Wasp was a smoking wreck before it's pilot realized that what he thought was the back of the Charger wasn't...his mistake, but in the Feder's defense, from a distance painting an image of the Charger's face on the back of it's head, well, told ya it was weird. Between you an me, though. I think that wannabe watched too many Immortal Warrior episodes growin' up, you know?".
I pretty much exclusively play HBS BT with the BTA3062 mod installed but something I learned during my first ever run (which didn't use mods) was that LRMs were extremely useful because not needing to care about LoS is excellent. Having a weapon that can, heat willing, fire every turn is extremely potent, even if it doesn't do much damage with each hit.
@@MechanicalFrog Yeah, even basic LRMs are really good for just chip damage. Plus it's also fun to watch a mech barf out 30+ missiles even if less than half of those hit.
Had one tabletop moment with LRMs... The dice gods just smiled on my Mad Dog pilot and while one LRM20 missed a 4+ shot, the other landed three groups of five right on a Highlander's head. I've clipped heads with an erPPC plenty of times, but never with an LRM salvo like that. Felt damn good.
I usually downsize the LRM-20's on my Timberwolves and Mad Dogs from 20's to 15's to stock another ton of ammo and an extra heat sink, and the compromise has never done me wrong. The extra longevity makes up for the loss of burst damage.
Swarm LRMs are very cumbersome, but at least once they made the game for me. I managed to get a Catapult with a clear shot on an enemy lance for 2 turns early on in the game once. They were slow moving and movement meant they ended in an open tunnel between two sets of trees. After the first wave chewed them up, my opponent decided that he'd already stepped in it, and started charging the catapult. Second wave sanded a nice amount of armor off the incoming lance as well. It didn't feel like much, but when my brawlers engaged, I noticed I was rolling for crits a lot sooner than normal. I guess I'm saying that while they are complicated and risky, there is a place for them, too.
@@MechanicalFrog I know I got a few myself. More than once (in 3025 play) I got charged, they got into about 5 hexes, and when I declared I was firing 4 medium lasers instead of any missiles that turn, and the "oh sh*t" look would cross their face. Of course, the rare but delicious one is when my Catapult runs away, they pursue, and if I guess where they will go right, land right in the 7-hex range directly behind me. Then I get that same look, even more exaggerated, when I announce I'm flipping both arms in the reactions phase. Short range with no minimum range penalty LRMs are pretty nasty. As much as people loved the Archers for missile support, it will never have the option to target its full missile barrage at a target directly behind itself.
Indirect fire LRMs have made the difference between victory and failure in many games I have played, both video game and tabletop. I like to place a Clan LRM15 rack on every mech in my assault group, each mech putting 15 LRMs on a single mech with concentrated fire as they advance towards or delay the enemy's advance, thanks to a single spotter. By the time I reach the enemy many times they are down several mechs or the mechs remaining have tissue paper left for armor before I even start taking any real damage to my assault group. Nothing makes your enemy more furious than having a half ton or more of high explosive LRMs dropping on one of their prized mechs every turn, especially when they can not even return fire due to terrain, line of sight, or range limitations.
Oh I was a bad man... I used to run 20 savannah masters modified with flamers and have heat seeker loaded LRM carriers. I was a bad man but the salvage gave me comfort.
The fact that LRMs have such an enormous minimum range really vexes me. With the MML launcher the ability to switch to an SRM payload makes the system far more forgiving. Clan LRMs (even more Clan Streak LRMs) are just broken at half the weight and no minimum range whatsoever. In the brief days of the original MWO LURMpocalypse, when PGI gave them a crazy flight pattern that effectively bypassed all terrain, I ran a Jenner spotter for a trio of LRM boats. Over the two or three days before the hotfix brought an end to the shenanigans we managed to wipe entire teams by the simple expedient of focusing indirect fire on one target at a time as the enemy struggled to hit me and couldn't engage the boats at all. It was glorious, but in the most abusive way possible.
We used to play with our custom designs, and I remember fondly using Swarm LRMs in several engagements to great effect. They remain my favorite LRM ammunition to this day.
I loved playing a LRM boat in early MWO. When they introduces the mechs that negated lockon for mechs it wasnt as fun and then they lowered the LRM dmg and I gave up. But LRM mechs are still my favourites in Battletech. Catapult, Madcat, Longbow etc are so fun to play.
HBS BT BEX mod first time meeting a Night Gyr D. I was like oh a missile boat that's cool..(the enemy was an unknown mech blip). A couple seconds later.. Oh its not finished shooting yet... A few moments later.... Please for the love stop shooting... My personal refit for the D is trade the L Pulse it has for a M Pulse and more LRM ammo.
I haven't played MWO in a few years, mostly due to the money sink they turn it into, but back in the day I could consistently be top dmg in my Catapult C4. It's always been a playstyle I like in the slower paced games and it was easy to grind credits with if you had some half-decent teammates
There was a period in the early days of MWO when the LRM, combined with effective team-play, was king of the battlefield. It was a game of patience and positioning. Any fool who got spotted by the front-liners was called out, and would immediately find hundreds of LRMs headed his way from three or four LRM boats. Once the team had lost their impatient brawler mechs, our own front-liners could charge in for the finish. Victory went to whichever team was more patient, or more effectively concentrated their LRM fire to knock down individual targets. The LRM boats would get stupendous damage numbers and maybe a kill or two, while the brawlers who'd finish things off would get less damage but more kills. Eventually the battlefield evolved, though, as many of the LRM boat captains moved towards sniper builds with PPCs or other high-burst direct-fire weapons in pursuit of more kills. Brawler builds were buffed so the impatient were rewarded for their stupidity.
@@kotori87gaming89 which im my personal opinion was a VERY good decision because...let's all play 5 hours of hump the hill or else the LRM boats will kill every single one of us...is not exactly the most fun activity out there, for anyone involved missile boats included, and with 12 people on both sides of the field there's not exactly much of anything else you CAN do, though tbh this is more of an issue with team and map sizes than LRM's themselves, if the game either got far larger maps, or far smaller teams per matches, this would probably not be an issue since well...than you can do something about it outside of just wait
One of the best LRM boats in the game is the Highlander IIC, it can run 80 tubes and about 4200 spare shots, with room for a pair of medium pulse lasers as a backup weapon.
Great video. I liked the Black Adder reference😉. In AlphaStrike we have used a couple of the specialist ammo types namely smoke and Thunder. The former my son used well to give himself cover against long-range fire early in the game, and the latter has been used -as you said- to direct and channel the OpFor. Even when it hasn’t been a particularly high density minefield, I avoided it just because I didn’t want to take the chance.
LRM's are quite cost effective, there is an LRM for every weight class and anything with decent spare tonnage can carry multiple ones. Great range, moderate heat/damage value. Minimum range can be a pain, but nothing in BT is unlimited perks. I remember a duel between and Archer and Marauder, my opponent was a firm believer in punching holes and that my LRM's would take too much time to whittle away his armour. For 3-4 turns it looked like he would be right as I had a damaged arm and my center torso didn't look great either, but then my heat was low enough to do another twin salvo and everything went into his arms, rolled two crits on one PPC and another on his other PPC and time for a quick retreat.
If you want to play an LRM boat in MWO, I recommend the Arctic wolf with 9 missile hardpoints. Stock engine, 8 LRM 5s, NARC beacon with 1 ton of ammo, run around at 120 kmh spotting for yourself and maintaining indirect sightlines, using your mobility to reposition. Plays like nothing else
Ermagerd I finally have time to watch this video about my favorite weapon from the MechWarrior series! It's one of the few things in MechWarrior that differentiates itself from other shooters. As allies spotting something so someone else can shoot there is something extremely rare, but I have never seen a weapon that behaves like LRMs do in MechWarrior. Direct fire weapons are still fun, but I like having something different. Having many thousands of hours in shooters might make you want to have something with a bit more thought behind it besides aim + click of most direct fire guns. It also helps people that use direct fire weapons have more fun adapting to where the mech was shot since unlike direct fire weapons, your positioning determines where it will hit usually. As opposed to everyone using direct fire weapons always going for CT/legs/whatever spot that mech is particularly weak in. Of course, I like having LRMs on all my mechs even if they aren't LRM boats, unless I'm boating something else or trying to be meta. Certain mechs can have a lot of downtime, but LRMs allow you to fire continuously so you may deal even more damage by the time you get to a target. Separation will happen, especially if you and your friends aren't the most competitive/meta friends, and don't care for tactics because they are playing MechWarrior 5 just having a fun casual time with stompy robots. LRMs lets me help all of them all the time, no matter how far away they are. So if they get in over their head, you can save them enough that they don't die, and they'll be cautious for the rest of the match, and then feel amazing for being close to death but barely making it out. 1:57 - I mean I haven't played it in years since I have MechWarrior 5 and BattleTech now, and all my friends got full time jobs or busy with another game. BT I can play solo, and MechWarrior 5 everyone will have the same progress I have. That said, surely MWO isn't that bad, I mean they did start listening to the community after a lot more after a while yeah? 'course I did prefer it when it was new because people weren't godly at the game, and mechs weren't optimized like crazy, and it was 8v8 instead of 12v12 so it's not as much deathballing. 2:30 I still haven't messed with the new weapons much, but with mechs being 1-3 shot with the old weapons, I can't imagine it being much different. 2:09 - Understandable that LRMs weren't for you, especially looking at that footage you showed for LRMs since that's what it looks like when people are not used to LRMs. Like, with the targets disappearing like that, most people don't initially have the self control to not fire right away when trying something new, so LRMs don't get a good chance from the first couple times trying it out. Also while LRM boats shouldn't always be up front for obvious reasons, they are still armor and a distraction for teammates to do things, thus requiring a bit more teamwork, and going against the nature of the indirect fire nature of LRMs to sometimes get your own locks (which is all the much harder to do properly in 12v12s where there's more eyes to stop you from safely getting locks) LRMs are never the meta option either since the counter play is either a few AMS, ECM or people just using cover like they are supposed to (especially if you aren't used to the maps or know how to reposition efficiently). LRMs are primarily a support weapon, and most people just want to see enemies die immediately by their own hands. Using LRMs is a different skill set for sure. If you're just firing at the first target that shows up all the time, you're gonna have a bad time, and I feel that's what turns off most people off to LRMs. Gotta know which target to prioritize, how if it's worth taking the time to lock on, and when to shoot the LRMs to maximize the damage dealt, and force a player to move into a more unfavorable position. With direct fire weapons, you're often limited to whatever mech is right around the corner, so prioritization isn't as necessary. It also really depends on the type of LRM boat you are trying to run. Mad Dog (favorite mech design visually in BattleTech. Also heavily biased by shredding mechs in the first wolf mission in MW2 with the Mad Dog when I was new to the series) - 1. Nice balance of armor, mobility, and firepower. 2. Incredibly hot mech (and Nova is one of my favorite mechs to use. I like hot mechs). You'll be waiting for stuff to cooldown all match more than other mechs, so another thing to be cautious of. 3. 4-5 medium clan lasers runs hot, but it does have enough range for most maps. So when you harm people enough with LRMs, or if someone is harassing you, you can shove them away, and perhaps take a component or even kill them. Archer - Similar to Mad Dog, but with inner sphere tech. Emphasis on LRMs, less on lasers. Stalker - Same, but bigger and slower. I like the stalker for more casual days because the lack of speed really limits the amount of decisions you make. Though I do like the heavier emphasis on when you move, that decision matters more. Catapult (favorite IS mech and design in MWO. Favorite gameplay in general for MWO too) - 1. Nice balance like Mad Dog, but less firepower & range with lasers for more efficient LRMs. 2. Jumpjets (I'm a sucker for jumpjets) - Combined with the decent speed you already have, jumpjets will let you engage/retreat with ease, and always be near your allies. It also pairs well with LRMs, because it's quite easy to be up front shooting LRMs at 400-500 where it's pretty much unavoidable. Which teases the enemy to come after a supposed lone LRM boat being stupid, only for them to go around the corner into the rest of your allies (happens less in 12v12 compared to 8v8s though). Then when you are by your allies, you can shoot LRMs over them as they are fighting the enemy, and the enemy might get distracted by trying to reposition to target you, for you might be injured, or they really despise LRMs. Medium LRM boats - Generally don't deal the damage required, but some have more mobility, so if you want to sacrifice even more firepower, they are there. However, I do have troubles getting them to have a nice build as they lack tonnage. That said I have not used the dervish or kintaro. It feels like blasphemy to use LRMs on the Kintaro since the point of the mech is to be an SRM brawler, but I've seen people use it to great effect as an LRM boat in MWO sometimes. Crusader - I haven't used it in MWO yet. However, it might become one of my favorite mechs in general, I'm definitely getting peer pressured by my friends to use it in MechWarrior 5 (Most of them because it looks really friggin cool, the rest who are sillier because the little "horn" makes it look like a unicorn, and they want me to make the legs pink so it looks like high thighs lol). Just taking it stock is a great time. LRMs to fire on enemies to soften stuff up and help my friends with their targets (who all love seeing stream LRMs rain down). Got 2 medium lasers to deal with pests like turrets/aircraft. 2 SRMs for close range punch. Then machine guns + fists for when I want to keep attacking while overheating. Lots of different weapons, but still an LRM boat since that's where most of the tonnage is. Only problem is slapping on jumpjets like I'd like means the missiles have to be downgraded to have enough tonnage, and I prefer having LRM 15s/20s on my LRM boats. Now I haven't gotten around to using LRMs to much effect in BattleTech the video game as I actually failed my first playthrough. It just kept giving me harder and harder missions until there was no easy missions left, and I was regularly fighting mechs above my weight class. I tried to focus fire and reposition so the enemy can only use one mech at a time, but that wasn't enough. So I wasn't able to get a catapult, but I will attempt again to see if I can do so. I'm also trying to get into tabletop so I can learn how to make custom mechs based on how they play in all games, and the lore that is in BattleTech. So I'm curious about the effectiveness of LRMs there. MechWarrior 5 having different tonnage limits does give me very different views on what is a good LRM boat though, since I mostly used heavies in MWO. Favorite example is starting some early missions where we picked Davion to begin, my friend would use the enforcer and they were taking on all the big guys, while I was a locust, using LRMs to pick off any vehicles/aircraft using 2 LRM 5s getting tons of kills, while staying out of sight because of how fragile locusts are. I had a blast being super fast, tiny, and taking cover. They got to be the center of attention, murdering everything with the big mech they had. Locust is still going to be weak, but when tonnage comes into play, it does it's job, and it can get to objectives quickly. As for my friends opinions of LRMs. Most of them love the absolute heck out of LRMs, and Archer is one of the most beloved mechs for most of them. However, in MW5 they sometimes graduate to direct fire weapons because they are like "oh, but if I use this, the enemy is just dead, LRMs are so weak", since they don't view the LRMs as a support weapon just yet. Other people that just want to relax from a long day of work and are totally fine with playing a turret standing on top a hill firing off LRMs, and just watching it rain down and kill everything, hearing their allies make comments about the lovely weather. Only a couple have always preferred direct fire weapons from the very start, and they usually struggle to use LRMs properly whenever they've had the opportunity for an LRM boat. One of the most recurring friends kept hopping around until they found the rifleman with 4 energy hard points and the annihilator. LRMs can't really beat 4 Large lasers when it comes to melting something at a distance when you have sight of it.
In HBS I often have something in the back (Trebuchet, Catapult, Archer or Stalker) loaded to the gills with LRM Launchers, stripped of most other weapons and given more ammo. It's job was mostly to inflict stability damage and knock something over.
Only fielded it twice so far but my Grasshopper has had some obscene luck with its LRM5. I only use if for potshots while closing the distance but in one battle it put a full flight in a Kodiaks face at long range. And in the other it found the ammo in an unfortunate Archer trying to hide its damaged side torso from the rest of my lance.
The LRM-5 is underrated, IMO. It compares very favorably to the AC/2 when you take its weight into account, and it fills the same role of taking long-range shots at VTOLs and light vehicles very effectively. I love the one on the Grasshopper and the ones on the Longbow.
@@kumarsalib722 The standard AC/2 and AC/5 only really become useful when you introduce special munitions. Precision ammo can help stop fast-moving vehicles and flak can help shoot down VTOLs.
If I remember right the clan LRMs were supposed to have a minimum range. But when fasa introduced the clans that rule didn't make it. I think it was supposed to be half the IS range. It was in a note in the first run of the battletech tactical handbook.
Yep 3 hex minimum same as ppc. But when clan er ppc got no minimum distance, it carried over to clan lrms. Interview was in a BT magazine, one of the merc special editions, had dev talk on clan invasion, which was just periphery rumors at time. Half readers voted they were aliens if I remember correctly.
I learned that the most fun way to play an LRM boat in MWO is to not. Inner Sphere? Swap 'em out for MRMs. Clanner? ATMs are great fun. I built a Cauldron-Born (the one Clan 'mech whose Inner Sphere name I prefer unequivocally) with 4 ATM-9s. Way more fun than LRMs. Turning a corner and finding a 'mech just entering your short range bracket was like Christmas morning.
If you ever delve into playing the non mech defender in table top thunder equipped LRM carriers are invaluable. They let you really even the odds by restricting mech mobility and let you setup immensely fun surprises such as mining near (Or in) bodies of water hot mech might move towards.LRM carriers also make cheap bait because many players will try to move towards them as to curtail the damage they take during the engagement.
Long Range Missiles are an important part of Battletech. In the 3025 era LRMs are the only practical Long Range weapon. The other option for Long Range is the Autocannon-2 which is too heavy to be practical and lacks any ability to be used for indirect fire support. The various videogames handle them differently, usually worse. In Mechwarrior 2 they are very effective, firing a continuous stream of missiles and can Lock-On to targets, making them the most accurate weapon at range, but no Indirect fire. In Mechwarrior 4 LRMs are less effective as now they fire arcs in Salvos. At close range this makes them nearly useless, and they still cannot fire indirectly. In Mechcommander 1 they are the only practical long range weapon, but cannot carry extra ammunition or reload making acquire Extended Range Large Lasers important. In Mechcommander 2 weapons have unlimited ammo by default and LRMs are very effective. In Battletech 2018-PC LRMs are very valuable as every weapon only has a random chance to hit, and every individual missile from an LRM has its own roll to hit. Upgraded LRMs from that game can easily cause enemies to become imbalanced, causing them to fall, killing the pilot, and allowing salvage of high value Battlemechs. On the Tabletop Clan-grade LRMs are a significant improvement for 2 reasons. Number 1 is that they weight half as much in tonnage. This allows all sorts of options like mounting larger, more damaging launchers, carrying more ammunition, or additional weapons. Number 2 is that Clan LRMs have no penalties at short range, making them All-Range-Missiles. Not encountered in any most of the Videogames are special LRM ammnition types. There was a Mechcommander 2 exclusive "Swarm"(high explosive) LRMs that didnt track enemies as the regular LRMs would.
Thank you so much for weighing in with this additional info. One of my favorite bits of the Battletech community is the willingness to share knowledge.
As for MWO, they do need constant repositioning and smart target selection to make them worth bringing, especially on heavier mechs, since they they are rather easy to avoid when played passively
We were playing a game at the local game store and my side was a unit short so I asked the guy running it if I could add some vehicles and when he said yes I chose 3 LRM carriers. I used my Thunderbolt as a spotter while they were setup behind the high ground for indirect fire. When the enemy assault lance started receiving fire in the form 180 LRM's sailing at them they and they couldn't hit the targets back, they freaked out and got royally pissed. By the time the fight was over the enemy Awesome had lost a torso PPC and some internals and it's center torso and other side torso had virtually no armor left so they had to retreat. My Thunderbolt didn't need to fire a shot at them. We won the game and I lost one LRM carrier but the crew survived, the second LRM carrier's crew was killed but it was mostly intact, all due to an enemy LAM that found them. That's when my Thunderbolt finally got to shoot when he blasted the LAM to pieces. Thus did House Steiner defeat the Kuritan wretches! :)
I was the victim of a lone LRM from a LRM 15. With enough armor to soak up the damage. I wasn't to concerned, but a lone missile hit my gyro. Every time I tried to stand up. I failed, and took pilot damage. The knockdowns killed my pilot. One lucky missile took out my brand new Naginata off the table.
I've always thought it would be fun to launch a bunch of thunders i to a shallow point in a river to make a minefield where the enemy might cross. No idea if this would actually work.
Made the mistake of chasing a lance of Locusts one of which was an LRM variant that laid a carpet of mines setting my heavy lance of two Warhammers and two marauders to wind up legless and immobile
Recently played with a Valkyrie (old tech) and it got shot to hell, losing both legs and one of it's arms, only having it's LRMs left. As a hail mary I fired them at the enemy while doing a 1 handed pushup and got maximum cluster, a head hit, and knocked out the pilot. Was a good day
Last battle I had a Longbow, just the bog standard one and the sheer volume of LRMs that thing can send down range is horrifying. But I did get it killed by a Mercury that I just couldn't hit :p
LRMs are the poor man's artillery. The only indirect fire weapon aside from true artillery, and it's even decent in the direct fire mode. It's not going to take down enemy 'mechs on it's own, although it can be good for long-range crit-seeking on vehicles. But it can weaken armor for the mid-range weapons like PPC, Large Laser, and mid-range Autocannon to exploit.
I am just getting into BattleTech and I decided to try my hand at a custom 'mech. I did an assault weight Catapult with 2 Art-IV LRM-20s, two small lasers, Beagle Probe, ECM and C3i. This joker also has around 300 points of armor. My thought is to field a Lance with two of these and either a 'mech or hovercraft as a spotter and try to take out the enemy Lance across the board without having to move the Catapults. Think it'll work?
@MechanicalFrog I was off by a small bit. I forgot I needed LRM-15s instead of LRM-20s, forgot the ECM and probe were on the scout and I miscalculated my BV. I did it in MegaMekLab. It maxes armor (19.5 tons) and structure points, has an Endo-Steel frame, a total of 20 heat sinks, fusion XL engine, and C3i, so it's a Civil War era.
Tbf i very much get the LRM situation when it comes to MWO, because well, if they kept them the same, the game turns into 5 hours of hump the hill till someone in the enemy team gets bored, because with 12v12 stealth killing the LRM boats is not exactly an option and snowballing is near impossible to stop, which is a scenario that isn't fun for anyone, LRM can't fire since no targets in sight, and the other people can't do things either because if they get spotted it's over and done, if the game had fewer players per match or far lager maps to keep the lances apart until the very end though, well than the story would be different
Mw5 mercs has some bullshit spawns and even worse with mods. Having 2 ai lancemates with LRM boats and some cautious gameplay can carry you through some seriously unfair battles. Or with mods you can build and pilot your own super sandpaper machine. LRM stream variants recommended so you can watch a river of missiles core a mech in less than 20 seconds from 900 meters away.
I have a lot of problems with MW5's AI and tendency to design missions with never-ending waves of enemies. What military leader would trickle in a handful of forces to slowly wear down an opponent rather than just crush them with the forces available? It's lazy game design.
Merctech makes LRMs way better by not requiring a lock on to fire them, the missiles seek on their own. They also add all the fancy missile variants that work way better.
I am quite disappointed that swarm LRMs aren't high explosive area effect weapons like in Mechcommander 2. I can't get anything like that in my LRMs, right?
I have a LRM 15 Raven I've used in the past 2 weeks. Two games, it has gotten 3 headshots. One in a Thunderbolt, one on an Atlas, and one on a Black Knight.. hehe best pilot ever.
My best LRM story goes thusly: I fired a single LRM10 from my HBK 4J at an Atlas on the first turn. Rolled three 12s in a row, destroying the gyro and doing one hit on the engine.
When I have 3 tons of artillery support, by God I am going to use all of it. Any claims of "brutality" can be explained away by my ""spotty"" radio antenna
I dont know about LRM 5s they're a bit marginal ....... one of the few customs I allow myself is an Assassin that swaps the LRM and Ammo for 2 more SRM 2s and a ton of extra armour much better use of 3 tons
LRM5 depends on the mech, though I mostly would rather replace. The grasshopper I would rather replace with flamers and a heat sink. The vendicator the LRM5 complements the PPC.
We DON'T love LRMs. Back in the day, it was HARD to actually hit something. Between the range, your movement, their movement, forests or rocks in between, the wind speed, a bird flying through, and a butterfly flapping it's wings in India you were left with having to roll less than a 4 on 2D6 (about a 15% chance) if you weren't left with having to roll a -2. Then when your LRM's actually hit you have to consult the missile cluster table. There, for some reason, you NEVER had problems rolling snakeyes which means only 5 or 6 of your LRM 20 rack actually hit the damn target. Even if you manage to not roll a 2, you have a 50% chance of rolling a 6,7, or 8 which means only 12 of your LRMs are going to hit (with the damage spread out over 3 potential hit locations). At least once Mechwarrior came out and you could make pilots with actual skills you could give them an LRM specialty that let them land more missiles, but back in the early days of Battletech all my friends regarded LRMs as the most inferior of the weapons systems available. The extra range (especially how hard it was to hit a target at long range after all the modifiers were plugged in) wasn't worth it given how little chance you had to score a hit and how little damage you did when you actually did score a hit (and how few shots you had before your LRM 20 ran dry).
I looked into that myself 'back in the day'. I found that LRM-15s were the 'best' as to weight ratio to damage output. The other thing that I did note was that LRM-5s were cheaper and easier to get for a Mercenary. But, when I took three Atlas chassis and mounted 10 LRM-5's on 'em, along with enough ammo to fire at least 14 salvos, the other players decided that I was 'min-maxing' things, and ruled my Mechs as 'unplayable'. I don't really see the problem... 10 LRM-5s and 6 medium lasers were far cheaper to obtain and mount on each Mech, than their 'normal' weapons allotments. 5 LRM-5's all feeding from a central 'bin' of ammo in each torso, where the 5 launchers were located, was a simpler arrangement than trying to feed all 10 out of the same ammo bin arrangement. Oh, and to make this understandable, I was doing this with 3025 Era tech during the first couple of years after the game was first published. I did make sure to have enough heat sinks to fully cover the heat burden of the LRMs, or the multiple lasers... but not able to fire all weapons at one time. Three such missile boats, along with a Phoenix Hawk to act as scout and target locator, as well as lure the Enemy under the missile umbrella, were considered 'cheating' for some reason. I guess they didn't like me firing 150 missiles at them every turn of battle for 13 or 14 turns. And since they could not work out a 'counter' to that strategy, they just up and made my Mechs 'illegal' to play against them, even though they were designed legally using the Construction Rules in the game! Yeah, still 'bitter' about that, even 3 and half decades later.
whats that? you're hiding on the side of hte map behind several walls nice and safe? MISSILES INCOMING btw, i thought the min range on LRMs was waiting on them to arm?
@@MechanicalFrog Get in close, do some damage with your medium lasers, then back right off and bomb them into submission. If you use the Royal version of the Bombardier, this becomes a very fun tactic because you get more than 1 ton of reloads per launcher. Fire all the way up to minimum range, hit with the short range arsenal, then back right off and keep hitting them with those LRM-20s. It is glorious!
"Once a mech closed on me I tended to die pretty quickly" Yeah no shit you're in an LRM boat. Same thing goes for people boating PPC's, ERLL's, UAC2's, etc. Keeping distance is important (especially for IS LRM mechs) as you can deal full damage up to 1000m. If you wanna succeed with LRM's you can't play the mouthbreathing potato "allies pls hold locks for me" style unless you're dropping with a dedicated spotter. Get a TAG, BAP, TCOMP & Artemis and learn to love the reduced spread of direct fire guided munitions. If you still wanna play LRM rain then you have to max out target decay skill nodes (TBH in any LRM mech you should be doing this) so you can hold locks after the target breaks LOS.
What is the game you are playing at the very beginning? It looks like a computer adaptation of the tabletop game. In addition, I just discovered your page and enjoy your videos.
As for MWO I stopped playing when they stopped even pretending to look into the massive cheating by some players. Players who continually got 4+ head shot kills per fight, each and every fight for instance. Remember the world championship team that suddenly couldn't do anything, once they had to play on standardized machines without their aimbots and hacks.
not having a min for lrms is NOT a technological advance..!! 🤨 any military should b able to change it...🙄 its just that they should be less effective at shorter range as, since they are designed for longer range, they don't have the speed advance of physics..
I was fighting a friend who was running two clan mechs vs my lance. Both my wolverines were down and I just had my locust and my C4 catapult. Miraculously, my locust had managed to survive every attack against it with only minimal damage, so against my friends heavily damaged Timberwolf, it was still a big threat. He has been closing on where my Catapult had been hidden behind some hills and My catapult was in danger from being attacked when he backed up because he determined it was his only chance to not be flanked... And he walked so he was exactly 7 spaces away. So, using my locust to shoot at his butt, I also used it as the spotter mech for my Catapult. I fired my first lrm20. Hit, I think for 12 missiles. They splatter all across the armor. Then my second LRM 20 hits... 19 missiles this time. On the last damage grouping of 4, I hit the previously damaged head taking our the last 3 points if armor and hitting his head with exactly one point of internal damage. Crit. Cockpit hit. I killed his pilot and win the game.
Heh, great story!
@@MechanicalFrog Indeed, my clanner friend now despises the Locust, and calls it "The Bug". I have a feeling this story is going to change how he deals with my light mechs from now on haha
First time l played the tabletop game, in a 2vs2 fight. My first shot was a AC20 to the head of my target, killing the pilot. Let's say that we all had a surprised laugh at that.
This is the stuff tabletop stories are made of!
That’s the kind of game, why we play IS
In my opinion, LRMs really come into their own when your fielding larger units with support. Battleforce comes to mind, but I've been in a few Battalion - scale Battletech campaigns as well.
With larger units, strategy can take a higher role then small unit tactics, and having units dedicated to roles such as artillery spotting, and long range suppression. So do units such as LRM and SRM carriers. In smaller engagements, such as lance on lance, knowing how to deploy one's LRMs and when to back the hell up is crucial, especially if the machine(s) your using isn't fitted out for close combat, but I guess that would be Mech combat 101.
As for a story, and we here at the Table do love our stories, one involving LRMs comes to mind:
"Barkeep! Round on junior over there... Now, see. There was this young wannabe, back in the day. You know, back in the aught 20's when you damn near had to see the glow of their PPCs to hit anything, an' salvage was king. None of these shuckin' and chunkin' Mechs like they do theses days, you know. Anyway, this wannabe or was he a Wannamaker? Too many rounds, you know.
"Anyway, this young fellar ends up bagging a CGR-01, which wasn't really all that hard. Hell, I heard of this gal over in Kuria space that gutted a Charger with nothing more then her Warhammer and a hard kick to the mid section... Anyway, this here youngster didn't like that small laser loadout that the CGR-01 made infamous, plus the only redeeming factor of the Mech, aside from being in the Assault class of big stompy robots, was it's speed. For a big, armored Dofuss, Chargers are quick. Actually live up to their name, eh, yeah, surprising I know.
"So, this particular Mech had a really big hole in the back, left torso...or was it the right torso? I was the unit's chief tech back then and had stocked up some surplus LRM-10's, so he asks if I can mount one in the back. The Back, yeah, that's what I said. Ain't ever been done, I said. But he insisted and, in all honesty, couldn't come up with any reason why you couldn't. I mean, it wasn't like there were any hard rules sayin' you couldn't He also insisted on a weird paint job that left me scratching my head.
"Well, the kid took a lot of flack from the unit an' the Captain, but still, a back mounted LRM-10 it was. So, a few months later an a pack of Davion's lads came callin' and a real brawl broke out. So there's the kid an' his weirded up Charger, standing in place and firing that LRM. So, it doesn't take long before several of those Davion's flanked him with the intention of attacking him in the back. They even got up close, only, it wasn't the back they were facing, now was it. Man, those small lasers aren't much o' a threat, one at a time, but four up close? I think that first Wasp was a smoking wreck before it's pilot realized that what he thought was the back of the Charger wasn't...his mistake, but in the Feder's defense, from a distance painting an image of the Charger's face on the back of it's head, well, told ya it was weird. Between you an me, though. I think that wannabe watched too many Immortal Warrior episodes growin' up, you know?".
wow... being stuck with a Charger. Now that's a rough turn of the key.
I pretty much exclusively play HBS BT with the BTA3062 mod installed but something I learned during my first ever run (which didn't use mods) was that LRMs were extremely useful because not needing to care about LoS is excellent.
Having a weapon that can, heat willing, fire every turn is extremely potent, even if it doesn't do much damage with each hit.
LRMs are very strong in HBS Battletech. I always have at least one boat in the lance.
@@MechanicalFrog Yeah, even basic LRMs are really good for just chip damage. Plus it's also fun to watch a mech barf out 30+ missiles even if less than half of those hit.
Had one tabletop moment with LRMs... The dice gods just smiled on my Mad Dog pilot and while one LRM20 missed a 4+ shot, the other landed three groups of five right on a Highlander's head.
I've clipped heads with an erPPC plenty of times, but never with an LRM salvo like that. Felt damn good.
Wow. Lucky ducky.
I usually downsize the LRM-20's on my Timberwolves and Mad Dogs from 20's to 15's to stock another ton of ammo and an extra heat sink, and the compromise has never done me wrong. The extra longevity makes up for the loss of burst damage.
That is reasonable.
Play with your build a bit and you can get 3x LRM15s in place of the 2x LRM20s, depending on the game you are playing. Clan tech LRM's of course.
Swarm LRMs are very cumbersome, but at least once they made the game for me. I managed to get a Catapult with a clear shot on an enemy lance for 2 turns early on in the game once. They were slow moving and movement meant they ended in an open tunnel between two sets of trees. After the first wave chewed them up, my opponent decided that he'd already stepped in it, and started charging the catapult. Second wave sanded a nice amount of armor off the incoming lance as well. It didn't feel like much, but when my brawlers engaged, I noticed I was rolling for crits a lot sooner than normal. I guess I'm saying that while they are complicated and risky, there is a place for them, too.
I wonder how many mechwarriors have died after thinking, "I'll charge the Catapult."
@@MechanicalFrog I know I got a few myself. More than once (in 3025 play) I got charged, they got into about 5 hexes, and when I declared I was firing 4 medium lasers instead of any missiles that turn, and the "oh sh*t" look would cross their face.
Of course, the rare but delicious one is when my Catapult runs away, they pursue, and if I guess where they will go right, land right in the 7-hex range directly behind me. Then I get that same look, even more exaggerated, when I announce I'm flipping both arms in the reactions phase. Short range with no minimum range penalty LRMs are pretty nasty.
As much as people loved the Archers for missile support, it will never have the option to target its full missile barrage at a target directly behind itself.
Indirect fire LRMs have made the difference between victory and failure in many games I have played, both video game and tabletop. I like to place a Clan LRM15 rack on every mech in my assault group, each mech putting 15 LRMs on a single mech with concentrated fire as they advance towards or delay the enemy's advance, thanks to a single spotter. By the time I reach the enemy many times they are down several mechs or the mechs remaining have tissue paper left for armor before I even start taking any real damage to my assault group.
Nothing makes your enemy more furious than having a half ton or more of high explosive LRMs dropping on one of their prized mechs every turn, especially when they can not even return fire due to terrain, line of sight, or range limitations.
Oh I was a bad man... I used to run 20 savannah masters modified with flamers and have heat seeker loaded LRM carriers. I was a bad man but the salvage gave me comfort.
Wow. You're a monster.
@@MechanicalFrog What can I say, those who fight fair in the periphery don't last long...
@@wargameforge Get gud.
@@MechanicalFrog 🤣🤣🤣
The fact that LRMs have such an enormous minimum range really vexes me. With the MML launcher the ability to switch to an SRM payload makes the system far more forgiving. Clan LRMs (even more Clan Streak LRMs) are just broken at half the weight and no minimum range whatsoever.
In the brief days of the original MWO LURMpocalypse, when PGI gave them a crazy flight pattern that effectively bypassed all terrain, I ran a Jenner spotter for a trio of LRM boats. Over the two or three days before the hotfix brought an end to the shenanigans we managed to wipe entire teams by the simple expedient of focusing indirect fire on one target at a time as the enemy struggled to hit me and couldn't engage the boats at all. It was glorious, but in the most abusive way possible.
I think it was really just an attempt to balance them in the early days of BT.
We used to play with our custom designs, and I remember fondly using Swarm LRMs in several engagements to great effect. They remain my favorite LRM ammunition to this day.
I'm glad someone has used them to great effect.
I loved playing a LRM boat in early MWO. When they introduces the mechs that negated lockon for mechs it wasnt as fun and then they lowered the LRM dmg and I gave up. But LRM mechs are still my favourites in Battletech. Catapult, Madcat, Longbow etc are so fun to play.
Still fun in the tabletop, and that's all that matters.
HBS BT BEX mod first time meeting a Night Gyr D.
I was like oh a missile boat that's cool..(the enemy was an unknown mech blip).
A couple seconds later..
Oh its not finished shooting yet...
A few moments later....
Please for the love stop shooting...
My personal refit for the D is trade the L Pulse it has for a M Pulse and more LRM ammo.
All the pretty lights...
I haven't played MWO in a few years, mostly due to the money sink they turn it into, but back in the day I could consistently be top dmg in my Catapult C4. It's always been a playstyle I like in the slower paced games and it was easy to grind credits with if you had some half-decent teammates
The game has definitely changed in the years since I played.
There was a period in the early days of MWO when the LRM, combined with effective team-play, was king of the battlefield. It was a game of patience and positioning. Any fool who got spotted by the front-liners was called out, and would immediately find hundreds of LRMs headed his way from three or four LRM boats. Once the team had lost their impatient brawler mechs, our own front-liners could charge in for the finish. Victory went to whichever team was more patient, or more effectively concentrated their LRM fire to knock down individual targets. The LRM boats would get stupendous damage numbers and maybe a kill or two, while the brawlers who'd finish things off would get less damage but more kills. Eventually the battlefield evolved, though, as many of the LRM boat captains moved towards sniper builds with PPCs or other high-burst direct-fire weapons in pursuit of more kills. Brawler builds were buffed so the impatient were rewarded for their stupidity.
@@kotori87gaming89 in short MWO became Call Of Duty with extra steps...
@@kotori87gaming89 which im my personal opinion was a VERY good decision because...let's all play 5 hours of hump the hill or else the LRM boats will kill every single one of us...is not exactly the most fun activity out there, for anyone involved missile boats included, and with 12 people on both sides of the field there's not exactly much of anything else you CAN do, though tbh this is more of an issue with team and map sizes than LRM's themselves, if the game either got far larger maps, or far smaller teams per matches, this would probably not be an issue since well...than you can do something about it outside of just wait
One of the best LRM boats in the game is the Highlander IIC, it can run 80 tubes and about 4200 spare shots, with room for a pair of medium pulse lasers as a backup weapon.
Great video. I liked the Black Adder reference😉. In AlphaStrike we have used a couple of the specialist ammo types namely smoke and Thunder. The former my son used well to give himself cover against long-range fire early in the game, and the latter has been used -as you said- to direct and channel the OpFor. Even when it hasn’t been a particularly high density minefield, I avoided it just because I didn’t want to take the chance.
Glad you enjoyed it. Keep up the great work!
LRM's are quite cost effective, there is an LRM for every weight class and anything with decent spare tonnage can carry multiple ones. Great range, moderate heat/damage value. Minimum range can be a pain, but nothing in BT is unlimited perks.
I remember a duel between and Archer and Marauder, my opponent was a firm believer in punching holes and that my LRM's would take too much time to whittle away his armour. For 3-4 turns it looked like he would be right as I had a damaged arm and my center torso didn't look great either, but then my heat was low enough to do another twin salvo and everything went into his arms, rolled two crits on one PPC and another on his other PPC and time for a quick retreat.
Quite the slugfest.
If you want to play an LRM boat in MWO, I recommend the Arctic wolf with 9 missile hardpoints. Stock engine, 8 LRM 5s, NARC beacon with 1 ton of ammo, run around at 120 kmh spotting for yourself and maintaining indirect sightlines, using your mobility to reposition. Plays like nothing else
Sounds like a feisty loadout.
Ermagerd I finally have time to watch this video about my favorite weapon from the MechWarrior series! It's one of the few things in MechWarrior that differentiates itself from other shooters. As allies spotting something so someone else can shoot there is something extremely rare, but I have never seen a weapon that behaves like LRMs do in MechWarrior. Direct fire weapons are still fun, but I like having something different. Having many thousands of hours in shooters might make you want to have something with a bit more thought behind it besides aim + click of most direct fire guns.
It also helps people that use direct fire weapons have more fun adapting to where the mech was shot since unlike direct fire weapons, your positioning determines where it will hit usually. As opposed to everyone using direct fire weapons always going for CT/legs/whatever spot that mech is particularly weak in.
Of course, I like having LRMs on all my mechs even if they aren't LRM boats, unless I'm boating something else or trying to be meta. Certain mechs can have a lot of downtime, but LRMs allow you to fire continuously so you may deal even more damage by the time you get to a target. Separation will happen, especially if you and your friends aren't the most competitive/meta friends, and don't care for tactics because they are playing MechWarrior 5 just having a fun casual time with stompy robots. LRMs lets me help all of them all the time, no matter how far away they are. So if they get in over their head, you can save them enough that they don't die, and they'll be cautious for the rest of the match, and then feel amazing for being close to death but barely making it out.
1:57 - I mean I haven't played it in years since I have MechWarrior 5 and BattleTech now, and all my friends got full time jobs or busy with another game. BT I can play solo, and MechWarrior 5 everyone will have the same progress I have. That said, surely MWO isn't that bad, I mean they did start listening to the community after a lot more after a while yeah? 'course I did prefer it when it was new because people weren't godly at the game, and mechs weren't optimized like crazy, and it was 8v8 instead of 12v12 so it's not as much deathballing. 2:30 I still haven't messed with the new weapons much, but with mechs being 1-3 shot with the old weapons, I can't imagine it being much different.
2:09 - Understandable that LRMs weren't for you, especially looking at that footage you showed for LRMs since that's what it looks like when people are not used to LRMs. Like, with the targets disappearing like that, most people don't initially have the self control to not fire right away when trying something new, so LRMs don't get a good chance from the first couple times trying it out. Also while LRM boats shouldn't always be up front for obvious reasons, they are still armor and a distraction for teammates to do things, thus requiring a bit more teamwork, and going against the nature of the indirect fire nature of LRMs to sometimes get your own locks (which is all the much harder to do properly in 12v12s where there's more eyes to stop you from safely getting locks)
LRMs are never the meta option either since the counter play is either a few AMS, ECM or people just using cover like they are supposed to (especially if you aren't used to the maps or know how to reposition efficiently). LRMs are primarily a support weapon, and most people just want to see enemies die immediately by their own hands.
Using LRMs is a different skill set for sure. If you're just firing at the first target that shows up all the time, you're gonna have a bad time, and I feel that's what turns off most people off to LRMs. Gotta know which target to prioritize, how if it's worth taking the time to lock on, and when to shoot the LRMs to maximize the damage dealt, and force a player to move into a more unfavorable position. With direct fire weapons, you're often limited to whatever mech is right around the corner, so prioritization isn't as necessary.
It also really depends on the type of LRM boat you are trying to run.
Mad Dog (favorite mech design visually in BattleTech. Also heavily biased by shredding mechs in the first wolf mission in MW2 with the Mad Dog when I was new to the series) -
1. Nice balance of armor, mobility, and firepower.
2. Incredibly hot mech (and Nova is one of my favorite mechs to use. I like hot mechs). You'll be waiting for stuff to cooldown all match more than other mechs, so another thing to be cautious of.
3. 4-5 medium clan lasers runs hot, but it does have enough range for most maps. So when you harm people enough with LRMs, or if someone is harassing you, you can shove them away, and perhaps take a component or even kill them.
Archer - Similar to Mad Dog, but with inner sphere tech. Emphasis on LRMs, less on lasers.
Stalker - Same, but bigger and slower. I like the stalker for more casual days because the lack of speed really limits the amount of decisions you make. Though I do like the heavier emphasis on when you move, that decision matters more.
Catapult (favorite IS mech and design in MWO. Favorite gameplay in general for MWO too) -
1. Nice balance like Mad Dog, but less firepower & range with lasers for more efficient LRMs.
2. Jumpjets (I'm a sucker for jumpjets) - Combined with the decent speed you already have, jumpjets will let you engage/retreat with ease, and always be near your allies. It also pairs well with LRMs, because it's quite easy to be up front shooting LRMs at 400-500 where it's pretty much unavoidable. Which teases the enemy to come after a supposed lone LRM boat being stupid, only for them to go around the corner into the rest of your allies (happens less in 12v12 compared to 8v8s though). Then when you are by your allies, you can shoot LRMs over them as they are fighting the enemy, and the enemy might get distracted by trying to reposition to target you, for you might be injured, or they really despise LRMs.
Medium LRM boats - Generally don't deal the damage required, but some have more mobility, so if you want to sacrifice even more firepower, they are there. However, I do have troubles getting them to have a nice build as they lack tonnage. That said I have not used the dervish or kintaro. It feels like blasphemy to use LRMs on the Kintaro since the point of the mech is to be an SRM brawler, but I've seen people use it to great effect as an LRM boat in MWO sometimes.
Crusader - I haven't used it in MWO yet. However, it might become one of my favorite mechs in general, I'm definitely getting peer pressured by my friends to use it in MechWarrior 5 (Most of them because it looks really friggin cool, the rest who are sillier because the little "horn" makes it look like a unicorn, and they want me to make the legs pink so it looks like high thighs lol). Just taking it stock is a great time. LRMs to fire on enemies to soften stuff up and help my friends with their targets (who all love seeing stream LRMs rain down). Got 2 medium lasers to deal with pests like turrets/aircraft. 2 SRMs for close range punch. Then machine guns + fists for when I want to keep attacking while overheating. Lots of different weapons, but still an LRM boat since that's where most of the tonnage is. Only problem is slapping on jumpjets like I'd like means the missiles have to be downgraded to have enough tonnage, and I prefer having LRM 15s/20s on my LRM boats.
Now I haven't gotten around to using LRMs to much effect in BattleTech the video game as I actually failed my first playthrough. It just kept giving me harder and harder missions until there was no easy missions left, and I was regularly fighting mechs above my weight class. I tried to focus fire and reposition so the enemy can only use one mech at a time, but that wasn't enough. So I wasn't able to get a catapult, but I will attempt again to see if I can do so.
I'm also trying to get into tabletop so I can learn how to make custom mechs based on how they play in all games, and the lore that is in BattleTech. So I'm curious about the effectiveness of LRMs there.
MechWarrior 5 having different tonnage limits does give me very different views on what is a good LRM boat though, since I mostly used heavies in MWO. Favorite example is starting some early missions where we picked Davion to begin, my friend would use the enforcer and they were taking on all the big guys, while I was a locust, using LRMs to pick off any vehicles/aircraft using 2 LRM 5s getting tons of kills, while staying out of sight because of how fragile locusts are. I had a blast being super fast, tiny, and taking cover. They got to be the center of attention, murdering everything with the big mech they had. Locust is still going to be weak, but when tonnage comes into play, it does it's job, and it can get to objectives quickly.
As for my friends opinions of LRMs. Most of them love the absolute heck out of LRMs, and Archer is one of the most beloved mechs for most of them. However, in MW5 they sometimes graduate to direct fire weapons because they are like "oh, but if I use this, the enemy is just dead, LRMs are so weak", since they don't view the LRMs as a support weapon just yet. Other people that just want to relax from a long day of work and are totally fine with playing a turret standing on top a hill firing off LRMs, and just watching it rain down and kill everything, hearing their allies make comments about the lovely weather.
Only a couple have always preferred direct fire weapons from the very start, and they usually struggle to use LRMs properly whenever they've had the opportunity for an LRM boat. One of the most recurring friends kept hopping around until they found the rifleman with 4 energy hard points and the annihilator. LRMs can't really beat 4 Large lasers when it comes to melting something at a distance when you have sight of it.
Wow, thank you for the reading material. :D
In HBS I often have something in the back (Trebuchet, Catapult, Archer or Stalker) loaded to the gills with LRM Launchers, stripped of most other weapons and given more ammo. It's job was mostly to inflict stability damage and knock something over.
I usually have 1 LRM boat in HBS BT, and one spotter for it with the sensor lock skill.
Only fielded it twice so far but my Grasshopper has had some obscene luck with its LRM5. I only use if for potshots while closing the distance but in one battle it put a full flight in a Kodiaks face at long range. And in the other it found the ammo in an unfortunate Archer trying to hide its damaged side torso from the rest of my lance.
If the dice go your way, LRMs can be bigtime game changers.
The LRM-5 is underrated, IMO. It compares very favorably to the AC/2 when you take its weight into account, and it fills the same role of taking long-range shots at VTOLs and light vehicles very effectively. I love the one on the Grasshopper and the ones on the Longbow.
It's no secret a LRM5 is more tonnage efficient than an AC2
@@Circ00mspice Yeah, big time. I hope we get a Warrior H-8 plastic model soon.
I would take an LRM5 over an AC2.
The AC/2 and AC/5 are just awful weapons. Their only redeeming values are low heat and fewer dice to roll than LRMs.
@@kumarsalib722 The standard AC/2 and AC/5 only really become useful when you introduce special munitions. Precision ammo can help stop fast-moving vehicles and flak can help shoot down VTOLs.
If I remember right the clan LRMs were supposed to have a minimum range. But when fasa introduced the clans that rule didn't make it. I think it was supposed to be half the IS range. It was in a note in the first run of the battletech tactical handbook.
When I saw Clan LRM stats for the first time I thought there must be a typo and they left out the minimum range by accident.
*Chuckling in Jade Falcon*
Yeah that's what I remember, 90 meters instead of 180.
Yep 3 hex minimum same as ppc.
But when clan er ppc got no minimum distance, it carried over to clan lrms.
Interview was in a BT magazine, one of the merc special editions, had dev talk on clan invasion, which was just periphery rumors at time.
Half readers voted they were aliens if I remember correctly.
I learned that the most fun way to play an LRM boat in MWO is to not. Inner Sphere? Swap 'em out for MRMs. Clanner? ATMs are great fun. I built a Cauldron-Born (the one Clan 'mech whose Inner Sphere name I prefer unequivocally) with 4 ATM-9s. Way more fun than LRMs. Turning a corner and finding a 'mech just entering your short range bracket was like Christmas morning.
I'm a big fan of the Ebon Jaguar.
If you ever delve into playing the non mech defender in table top thunder equipped LRM carriers are invaluable. They let you really even the odds by restricting mech mobility and let you setup immensely fun surprises such as mining near (Or in) bodies of water hot mech might move towards.LRM carriers also make cheap bait because many players will try to move towards them as to curtail the damage they take during the engagement.
Sounds like fun.
Long Range Missiles are an important part of Battletech. In the 3025 era LRMs are the only practical Long Range weapon. The other option for Long Range is the Autocannon-2 which is too heavy to be practical and lacks any ability to be used for indirect fire support.
The various videogames handle them differently, usually worse. In Mechwarrior 2 they are very effective, firing a continuous stream of missiles and can Lock-On to targets, making them the most accurate weapon at range, but no Indirect fire. In Mechwarrior 4 LRMs are less effective as now they fire arcs in Salvos. At close range this makes them nearly useless, and they still cannot fire indirectly. In Mechcommander 1 they are the only practical long range weapon, but cannot carry extra ammunition or reload making acquire Extended Range Large Lasers important. In Mechcommander 2 weapons have unlimited ammo by default and LRMs are very effective. In Battletech 2018-PC LRMs are very valuable as every weapon only has a random chance to hit, and every individual missile from an LRM has its own roll to hit. Upgraded LRMs from that game can easily cause enemies to become imbalanced, causing them to fall, killing the pilot, and allowing salvage of high value Battlemechs.
On the Tabletop Clan-grade LRMs are a significant improvement for 2 reasons. Number 1 is that they weight half as much in tonnage. This allows all sorts of options like mounting larger, more damaging launchers, carrying more ammunition, or additional weapons. Number 2 is that Clan LRMs have no penalties at short range, making them All-Range-Missiles.
Not encountered in any most of the Videogames are special LRM ammnition types. There was a Mechcommander 2 exclusive "Swarm"(high explosive) LRMs that didnt track enemies as the regular LRMs would.
Thank you so much for weighing in with this additional info. One of my favorite bits of the Battletech community is the willingness to share knowledge.
As for MWO, they do need constant repositioning and smart target selection to make them worth bringing, especially on heavier mechs, since they they are rather easy to avoid when played passively
Fair. I was likely doing it wrong. It's not my play style.
We were playing a game at the local game store and my side was a unit short so I asked the guy running it if I could add some vehicles and when he said yes I chose 3 LRM carriers. I used my Thunderbolt as a spotter while they were setup behind the high ground for indirect fire. When the enemy assault lance started receiving fire in the form 180 LRM's sailing at them they and they couldn't hit the targets back, they freaked out and got royally pissed. By the time the fight was over the enemy Awesome had lost a torso PPC and some internals and it's center torso and other side torso had virtually no armor left so they had to retreat. My Thunderbolt didn't need to fire a shot at them. We won the game and I lost one LRM carrier but the crew survived, the second LRM carrier's crew was killed but it was mostly intact, all due to an enemy LAM that found them. That's when my Thunderbolt finally got to shoot when he blasted the LAM to pieces. Thus did House Steiner defeat the Kuritan wretches! :)
I was the victim of a lone LRM from a LRM 15. With enough armor to soak up the damage. I wasn't to concerned, but a lone missile hit my gyro. Every time I tried to stand up. I failed, and took pilot damage. The knockdowns killed my pilot. One lucky missile took out my brand new Naginata off the table.
Live by the Gyro, die by the Gyro.
Archer is a classic of course, as is the Trebuchet, one of my favorites in MWOS7. More obscurely the Naginata.
The Naginata is a pretty good one.
The moment I found a Stalker with two LRM15 with Artemis, it hasn't left my Lance since.
Very nice mech, hot but effective.
Steel rain.
I've always thought it would be fun to launch a bunch of thunders i to a shallow point in a river to make a minefield where the enemy might cross. No idea if this would actually work.
Made the mistake of chasing a lance of Locusts one of which was an LRM variant that laid a carpet of mines setting my heavy lance of two Warhammers and two marauders to wind up legless and immobile
Life is full of little explodey challenges...
Longbow 12C is my favorite LRM boat. Just does its work.
The Longbow is great!
Recently played with a Valkyrie (old tech) and it got shot to hell, losing both legs and one of it's arms, only having it's LRMs left. As a hail mary I fired them at the enemy while doing a 1 handed pushup and got maximum cluster, a head hit, and knocked out the pilot. Was a good day
The Valkyrie is one of my favorite IS lights!
@@MechanicalFrog I'm glad it got reseen, it's a fun mech
@@TheScifiMusicAgreed!
More love for the totem mech of the frenchman's favorite food.
Last battle I had a Longbow, just the bog standard one and the sheer volume of LRMs that thing can send down range is horrifying. But I did get it killed by a Mercury that I just couldn't hit :p
Yeah this is why it's a good idea to throw a couple of pulse lasers on your missile boats.
LRMs are the poor man's artillery. The only indirect fire weapon aside from true artillery, and it's even decent in the direct fire mode.
It's not going to take down enemy 'mechs on it's own, although it can be good for long-range crit-seeking on vehicles. But it can weaken armor for the mid-range weapons like PPC, Large Laser, and mid-range Autocannon to exploit.
As for my opinion on LRMs, the Catapult is my favourite heavy mech.
I am just getting into BattleTech and I decided to try my hand at a custom 'mech. I did an assault weight Catapult with 2 Art-IV LRM-20s, two small lasers, Beagle Probe, ECM and C3i. This joker also has around 300 points of armor. My thought is to field a Lance with two of these and either a 'mech or hovercraft as a spotter and try to take out the enemy Lance across the board without having to move the Catapults. Think it'll work?
Maybe. I'd have to see all the details to see if that mech is legal. did you build it in an online mechbay?
@@MechanicalFrog negative, I just went step by step with the TechManual. I can try an online system to double check though
@@RvnKnight Could be worth doing just for a nice clean record sheet.
@@MechanicalFrog I'll knock one up here in a bit.
@MechanicalFrog
I was off by a small bit. I forgot I needed LRM-15s instead of LRM-20s, forgot the ECM and probe were on the scout and I miscalculated my BV. I did it in MegaMekLab. It maxes armor (19.5 tons) and structure points, has an Endo-Steel frame, a total of 20 heat sinks, fusion XL engine, and C3i, so it's a Civil War era.
Tbf i very much get the LRM situation when it comes to MWO, because well, if they kept them the same, the game turns into 5 hours of hump the hill till someone in the enemy team gets bored, because with 12v12 stealth killing the LRM boats is not exactly an option and snowballing is near impossible to stop, which is a scenario that isn't fun for anyone, LRM can't fire since no targets in sight, and the other people can't do things either because if they get spotted it's over and done, if the game had fewer players per match or far lager maps to keep the lances apart until the very end though, well than the story would be different
I just feel zero joy playing the game now. Can't quite explain why.
Mw5 mercs has some bullshit spawns and even worse with mods. Having 2 ai lancemates with LRM boats and some cautious gameplay can carry you through some seriously unfair battles.
Or with mods you can build and pilot your own super sandpaper machine. LRM stream variants recommended so you can watch a river of missiles core a mech in less than 20 seconds from 900 meters away.
I have a lot of problems with MW5's AI and tendency to design missions with never-ending waves of enemies. What military leader would trickle in a handful of forces to slowly wear down an opponent rather than just crush them with the forces available? It's lazy game design.
Merctech makes LRMs way better by not requiring a lock on to fire them, the missiles seek on their own.
They also add all the fancy missile variants that work way better.
@@ghoulbuster1 That's cool.
PGI kind of shit the bed with LRMs. The last time I played MWO, they were closer to streak MRMs.
HBS got the right though. I love my STK-3F.
LRMs in HBS Battletech are great.
Very good video, Frog. I wonder if you'll cover MRMs in the future...
Probably...
No wonder you feel dirty Lurm Boating MechFrog, you are using CLAN-LRMS!
Well... I am a Jade Falcon...
I am quite disappointed that swarm LRMs aren't high explosive area effect weapons like in Mechcommander 2.
I can't get anything like that in my LRMs, right?
I have a LRM 15 Raven I've used in the past 2 weeks. Two games, it has gotten 3 headshots. One in a Thunderbolt, one on an Atlas, and one on a Black Knight.. hehe best pilot ever.
Very nice.
My best LRM story goes thusly:
I fired a single LRM10 from my HBK 4J at an Atlas on the first turn. Rolled three 12s in a row, destroying the gyro and doing one hit on the engine.
Wow...
When I have 3 tons of artillery support, by God I am going to use all of it. Any claims of "brutality" can be explained away by my ""spotty"" radio antenna
Make it rain.
@@MechanicalFrog *laughs in inferno rounds*
Thunder missiles you say? I will have to look into those for jump jet troopers.
As you can tell by my pfp, I am a longbow pilot by nature.
I dont know about LRM 5s they're a bit marginal ....... one of the few customs I allow myself is an Assassin that swaps the LRM and Ammo for 2 more SRM 2s and a ton of extra armour much better use of 3 tons
I always thought the Assassin would do better if it focused on one range bracket instead of trying to cover them all.
LRM5 depends on the mech, though I mostly would rather replace. The grasshopper I would rather replace with flamers and a heat sink. The vendicator the LRM5 complements the PPC.
@@zraal3759 i agree that an lrm 5 works on mechs with other long range weapons is fine
Not on Tabletop, but BTA 3062 "Bee's" LRM ammo *XD*
We DON'T love LRMs.
Back in the day, it was HARD to actually hit something. Between the range, your movement, their movement, forests or rocks in between, the wind speed, a bird flying through, and a butterfly flapping it's wings in India you were left with having to roll less than a 4 on 2D6 (about a 15% chance) if you weren't left with having to roll a -2. Then when your LRM's actually hit you have to consult the missile cluster table. There, for some reason, you NEVER had problems rolling snakeyes which means only 5 or 6 of your LRM 20 rack actually hit the damn target. Even if you manage to not roll a 2, you have a 50% chance of rolling a 6,7, or 8 which means only 12 of your LRMs are going to hit (with the damage spread out over 3 potential hit locations).
At least once Mechwarrior came out and you could make pilots with actual skills you could give them an LRM specialty that let them land more missiles, but back in the early days of Battletech all my friends regarded LRMs as the most inferior of the weapons systems available. The extra range (especially how hard it was to hit a target at long range after all the modifiers were plugged in) wasn't worth it given how little chance you had to score a hit and how little damage you did when you actually did score a hit (and how few shots you had before your LRM 20 ran dry).
Well, at least you aren't bitter about it? :D
I looked into that myself 'back in the day'. I found that LRM-15s were the 'best' as to weight ratio to damage output.
The other thing that I did note was that LRM-5s were cheaper and easier to get for a Mercenary. But, when I took three Atlas chassis and mounted 10 LRM-5's on 'em, along with enough ammo to fire at least 14 salvos, the other players decided that I was 'min-maxing' things, and ruled my Mechs as 'unplayable'. I don't really see the problem... 10 LRM-5s and 6 medium lasers were far cheaper to obtain and mount on each Mech, than their 'normal' weapons allotments. 5 LRM-5's all feeding from a central 'bin' of ammo in each torso, where the 5 launchers were located, was a simpler arrangement than trying to feed all 10 out of the same ammo bin arrangement. Oh, and to make this understandable, I was doing this with 3025 Era tech during the first couple of years after the game was first published. I did make sure to have enough heat sinks to fully cover the heat burden of the LRMs, or the multiple lasers... but not able to fire all weapons at one time. Three such missile boats, along with a Phoenix Hawk to act as scout and target locator, as well as lure the Enemy under the missile umbrella, were considered 'cheating' for some reason. I guess they didn't like me firing 150 missiles at them every turn of battle for 13 or 14 turns. And since they could not work out a 'counter' to that strategy, they just up and made my Mechs 'illegal' to play against them, even though they were designed legally using the Construction Rules in the game! Yeah, still 'bitter' about that, even 3 and half decades later.
whats that? you're hiding on the side of hte map behind several walls nice and safe?
MISSILES INCOMING
btw, i thought the min range on LRMs was waiting on them to arm?
We love LRMs for crit fishing!
Yes we do... yes we do...
@@MechanicalFrog Get in close, do some damage with your medium lasers, then back right off and bomb them into submission.
If you use the Royal version of the Bombardier, this becomes a very fun tactic because you get more than 1 ton of reloads per launcher. Fire all the way up to minimum range, hit with the short range arsenal, then back right off and keep hitting them with those LRM-20s. It is glorious!
"Once a mech closed on me I tended to die pretty quickly" Yeah no shit you're in an LRM boat. Same thing goes for people boating PPC's, ERLL's, UAC2's, etc. Keeping distance is important (especially for IS LRM mechs) as you can deal full damage up to 1000m.
If you wanna succeed with LRM's you can't play the mouthbreathing potato "allies pls hold locks for me" style unless you're dropping with a dedicated spotter. Get a TAG, BAP, TCOMP & Artemis and learn to love the reduced spread of direct fire guided munitions. If you still wanna play LRM rain then you have to max out target decay skill nodes (TBH in any LRM mech you should be doing this) so you can hold locks after the target breaks LOS.
Thanks for the helpful advice and taking my comments in the light-hearted manner in which they were intended rather than a genuine complaint.
@@MechanicalFrog 👍
That is one sturdy coffee mug. Is it magnetized?
Apparently.
What is the game you are playing at the very beginning? It looks like a computer adaptation of the tabletop game. In addition, I just discovered your page and enjoy your videos.
HBS Battletech, it's a fun conversion of the BT Tabletop ruleset and has a pretty decent storyline campaign. Thank you for the kind encouragement.
@@MechanicalFrog interesting, and thank you!
As for MWO I stopped playing when they stopped even pretending to look into the massive cheating by some players. Players who continually got 4+ head shot kills per fight, each and every fight for instance.
Remember the world championship team that suddenly couldn't do anything, once they had to play on standardized machines without their aimbots and hacks.
LRMs in MWO are best used in a coordinated team, or as a midrange, LOS weapon. It sucks.
It's not a role I ever enjoyed in the game.
Frog, It's because of Macross :P
Ah yes...
not having a min for lrms is NOT a technological advance..!! 🤨 any military should b able to change it...🙄
its just that they should be less effective at shorter range as, since they are designed for longer range, they don't have the speed advance of physics..
*shrug*
Because shooting poprocks at your enemy is the epitome of fun
Apt analogy.