I once got put into mordial gaol. I waited in there the entire day and once the mod came, I asked why I was in gaol. Literally told me there was no reason and that I was placed there by accident. I was freaking out because recently I was doing the nier raid and had pulled a tank buster in a group of people killing 2 and a half alliances.
Being able to change the color and alter UI actually makes it easier for people with disabilities to use, especially people who are color blind. Usually Yoshi P doesn't care, as long as you aren't cheating, and I am of the same opinion. But if someone snitched about the mod, they probably feel obligated to enforce a ban since it was reported to them directly. They rarely come after cosmetics, unless you are blatantly showing them off. I do think they need to alter the TOS so that it isn't an issue anymore.
Agreed. My wife made me a mod that makes my wind-up Dragonet the color of my dragonet character, and I love it to death. The idea that that's treated the same as FFXIV's version of DBS is an absolute shambles.
I dont use UI mods, but this might actually work. Just claim that the already implemented color blind settings were not working and the UI mod helps. Then if they still ban you it's discrimination!
I'm colourblind and the colourblind modes in all games don't really help, if I could change the colours of specific aspects legitimately ingame without mods, that would make my life so much easier!
I know somebody who was harassed and stalked so bad in game and after reporting it like half a dozen times and never getting it resolved decided to use a mod that makes it so that if you ignore them they totally disappear forever into the Void. It's the only mod she uses and with the fact the SE still has done nothing to help people with this issue I don't blame her.
The ban is dumb but the dude should have known better especially with recent incidents. Asking him to delete his whole channel vods tho, while it's sad, it's also expected when this kind of ban happens. This is, like many said, only a streamer issue. Don't stream/broadcast yourself breaking the ToS and whine when they do something about it. The person who reported it tho gotta be a very pathetic individual to go through the whole shitty reporting system and be "yeah, this is worth my time". People are still gonna use mods, this literally does nothing.
I do agree that this guy should of had a mild ban. But you can't come and tell me that you didn't know that this was gonna happen? We all know how SE handles stuff like this, you KNOW that you're gonna get banned / possibly gonna get banned. While knowing this, you still do it. It's your own fault. However I do agree on that the UI mods we're talking about should be in the game already.
Fully agree on all fronts. Wanting your hud and stuff prettier's nice and all, but for love of god wait for SQEX to impliment the changes! There's no benefit to jumping off the cliff into a ban!
As someone who has come from wow, im not used to people thinking addons are bad. It was very shocking to find out how report happy people are for "cheating" when all you do is make a cute lil chat bubble.
just remember though, ffxiv community is nowhere near as toxic as WoWs or any other games community, it's the bestest gaming community in the whole wide worlded! /s
Actually Yoshi P has implied he doesn't care if people use ui/visual mods. He can't outright say its okay because of SE Terms but he is the game director and he does not care. Yoshi cannot control the companies ToS for FF14 unfortunately.
Yoshi has implied its ok to use act and ui mods, but to not be toxic and don't get caught streaming with your mods active. Because then you're giving them evidence against you. It's stupid, but until SE changes their ToS, it will continue to be this way. I use ACT and UI mods to better my play and make things better for my visual liking. Nothing about them inherently make me a better player. But there are crybabies out there who will rat you out in a heartbeat
@Siberian Yoshi does not care what you do on your own PC. Yoshi has no way of knowing what you are doing on your own PC. Yoshi does not package spyware with his game to find out what you are doing on your own PC. The only way he knows what your are doing on your PC is if your PC sends data to his servers, or you stream yourself breaking the TOS like a moron.
SE: "Hey, for the 900th time we still don't allow any mods whatsoever and will ban you for using them but we can't tell that you're using mods as long as you don't make it public. Wink wink." Literally Any Streamer That Gets Banned: "Okay, but how about I stream myself playing while using mods which aren't allowed to a large amount of people anyway? Surely I'll be fine." Like, don't use them on stream and nothing will happen. You're filming yourself doing something that SE has explicitly said many times is bannable, it doesn't matter if it's a mod that changes a pixel of the letter A to look more like you prefer it'll get you banned if SE knows you're using it. Yes, that wouldn't give you any sort of advantage or disadvantage but a mod is a mod and SE have been very clear time and again that any and all mods will get you banned if they know you're using them regardless of what mod they are. People need to stop being dumb and just use them when they're not streaming.
I think Xeno's problem with this line of thinking is that Square's actions are incongruent with their words when it comes to this matter. They can say they don't allow mods all they want but the fact of the matter is streamers still get away with streaming with mods all the time with no repercussions. Especially when considering how long Xeno has been streaming with mods or 3rd party tools without being banned for it, I think it's very understandable why he would take such umbrage with the way square has handled it. Now I'm not even saying I disagree with you, but I think you can cut some of these streamers some slack. If you had mods you really wanted to use and you knew that hundreds of streamers stream with mods everyday with no problem, and the amount of time you play FFXIV without streaming it was really small, don't you think it would at least be really tempting to try using the mods on stream?
But why take the risk? If you know it's something that could happen one day why steam with them on? Just because one person does it and doesn't get banned just means that they have never been reported for it.
@@tnabrams64 No. The very few times I stream I turn them off and I'm a complete nobody with maybe one or two viewers at most and both of them are people I know. All it takes is a single report and you're gonna have a nice GM chat and vacation from 14 if you're dumb enough to stream with mods, and I would only have myself to blame if I got reported for streaming with any mod. Just because they've been lax when people aren't being reported doesn't mean the rules changed. There is no slack to be cut, and it should have been especially clear with how much SE has been cracking down on mods.
@@thatrandom_canadian Like I said, I don't necessarily disagree with you, I'm just asking you to put yourself in their shoes. Since you appealed to how little you stream, I'll emphasize that the point is to pretend we're one of these big streamers to determine if we can offer them any charity. It's not exactly as easy as just streaming less (however I will grant that some streamers, such as Pint, actually don't stream that often in the grand scheme of things.)
@@averyoya4683 It's easy to say that if you're not a streamer. I would liken it to speeding. When it's something you do frequently, it conveniences you, and you see people do it all the time with no repercussions, I don't think it's unreasonable to be tempted to do it. Again, I'm not even siding with the streamers per se. I just think calling all of them dumb is a little unreasonable.
I think, at the end of the day it has nothing to do with severity, what the mod does, or other rules and punishments that they enforce, it is about high profile players actively flaunting ToS so as a result they HAVE to ban them otherwise the wider community will believe that mods are okay.
My thoughts on this is that they don't think that "All Mods are Bad" but it is easier to have a blanket ban on all Mods than to try and write rules that clearly differentiate between the ones they think are ok and the ones they don't like. So many modders would try and twist and bend the rules to the point of them needing so many clarifications they become confusing. Easiest thing to do is ban all instead of police what ones are and aren't ok.
They should have just supported UI mods from the beginning and developed their own API so they have some amount of control over what people can do within the rules. They don't need to worry about defining rules in writing if they can just disable access to certain functions for mods. Like, this isn't an issue at all in something like WoW or ESO or other games with built in UI modding support. When people do something that they think is too much they just break whatever function people were using to enable the mod. Having the foresight for this kind of stuff seems like it would have saved so much headache for both SE and the players.
They have said the UI mods that are often used, they're going to try to incorporate into the system. The blanket ban is as you said, it's easier but I believe it's aimed toward the mods that help you cheat through raid content and create toxic behavior.
@@ArborusVitae That's something that they very distinctly said they don't want to do, along with any form of automatic oversight like PC local anti-cheat. This conversation has been had; they're not going to design their cross-platform mmo (ESO is multi, not cross) in a way that gives any of the platforms an edge over another, and that includes the ability to modify the game. no, it doesn't necessarily give a gameplay advantage, but they're not going to give pc players tools to devise their own mods and tell Playstation users to go screw themselves while playing with those that have an inherently superior experience. it's not a technical foresight issue, it's a community curation one. PC players need to understand that unlike ESO and WoW, FF14 does not entitle players to modify the game. And while SE would rather leave the modding community be, it's a privilege to be done at their own risk. And unlike WoW, they're not so keen on letting the community design their game for them, to the point where raids are being designed around the addons as opposed to the players.
@@ArborusVitae It actually *IS* a pretty big issue for games like WoW and ESO, that have a modding API. Notably, WoW has had to made modifications to their API after many expansions/major patches because people figure out how to make mods that go against what the devs want to be possible. Making a modding API is not as simple as giving people access to certain features. People will *always* find ways that those given features are linked to other features that aren't supposed to be used, and they will exploit those links. No matter how good of a QA team a development company has, it is never going to be a match for the tens/hundreds of thousands, or even millions of players the game could potentially have. Along the same vein, it's not always just a simple thing to break a specific part of an API, and have everything else be perfect and have no issues. Even simple changes in a piece of software that have millions of lines of code could introduce unintended bugs. In the case of a modding API, making a change has to make sure that other functionality remains the same, while also not introducing other parts of the system that can be access. And, again, people are still *always* going to find a way to exploit the API, even after changes are made. For FF14 specifically, the entire game engine has always been based on the horribly broken 1.0 engine. It was also built to be played on both PC and PlayStation - two vastly different architectures. Making a modding API that would support both would already be difficult enough, and when you add in all the spaghetti code that 1.0 had, it makes it exponentially worse. Having modding available only on PC for an MMO game would make things extremely unbalanced between the two platforms, so it's not really something that would be very viable. Quite honestly, streamers just need to stop being dumb when they stream the game, simple as that. If you stream the game using mods of any kind, you're just asking for a ban. Their rules are extremely simple to follow, people just want to complain when they get caught doing something against the rules.
GShade is explicitly permitted as it doesn't tamper with in-game files. That being said, SE likely won't change their stance whilst console is still supported. The whole point of 'no mods' in the ToS is to prevent scenarios where console players are discriminated against in-game, especially in high-end raiding. The devs watch World First streams, they know all the top players use ACT, and it's not something they care about. However, preserving the 'appearance' of equality between console and PC is a major part of the whole mess surrounding 'third-party' software. Not explaining the actual reasoning behind these policies, as well as leaning heavily on 'the ToS' as an excuse to avoid explaining these reasonings, is where the devs keep failing.
Actually this is explicitly false. GShade and ReShade both actually alter the rendering methods of the game client and alter how it presents information. It goes in your FF14 Folder for a reason, because it's an injector. Should be bannable? Of course not. But it's actually more intrusive than 99% of all third party mods out there.
I think its generally pretty ridiculous to punish people so harshly for UI mods, but I'm also not super sympathetic when streamers get reprimanded for this. They know the rules and choose to break them on camera. Sure its stupid, sure these options _should_ be in the game, but they're still breaking the rules that they agreed to follow. Although, this does seem like a little much. Hopefully all of the reasonable things people currently mod into their UIs become official options someday soon. Edit: Apparently, as many people have mentioned, the length of the punishment is actually protocol. 1 offense being 3 days, 2 being a week and a half, and 3 being perma ban (I believe). Since Haru has had a suspension before, he's on the second level. Meaning: according to the FFXIV ToS, they're just following the policy and not treating him any harsher than anyone else. Turns out this is just how the strikes work. Idk if it's changed since Xeno's suspension, but I'm kinda surprised he didn't know about that given his history.
Tbh its not the mods themselfs that are bad, but the insane amount of publicity they have gotten up until the ERP party desaster. They never wanted to hardcore crack down on wholesome mods, they never did, but after it got brought so hard into the public eye AND it hurt Square Enixes reputation they are going ballistic. Dont be angry at the devs or moderators or even those that report them, be angry at those people that just went WAY too fucking far with their mods. They fucked it up for everyone. + Game is still amazing without mods, I never modded and I still cleared savage and still have fun at Parties.
Mods got insane publicity? What are you smoking? The incident got mild publicity from one official news site, then got reposted multiple times by a bunch of content mill sites. If anything, the articles on these sites are all about the incessant crying happening on r/ffxiv. Look, the general public doesn't give a shit. All they see is a billboard with some anime characters. They're not going to think mods or ERP, because how would they even know? It's not like they play the game and know its references. It's people like you crying about ERP and mods, that made it an issue about ERP and mods. Only the mentally ill segment of this community thinks it's a big deal. They're the ones going on and on about mods, ERP, and copyright. Oh no! Children play this game too you know! SE is definitely gonna sue their ass! Yeah? When are they going to court? This incident has no bearing on anything, it means nothing.
There is a line... I come from wow high end raiding and think the raid alerts/cactbot/rotation automation is an issue and should be handled. However the majority of the community seems to agree with qol mods being allowed. I don't wanna squint to see dot timers. however as it stands right now some of the community have taken it upon themselves to report anything and everything. Its worth noting however that taking such hardline stances towards ur community even on third party platforms like twitch is a big reason why so many people dont stream ff xiv
It is sadly a calculation Square decided to make. I think Yoshi P did allude to other games allowing modifications or even giving modders the keys so to say and stated it causes some problems (what these problems are he didn't say). I like the QoL mods or mods that can help with accessibility and shouldn't be lumped with the DSR cheat mods or things like Parsley Park (a bot that automatically changed Waymarks mid-battle until they got rid of that ability to change waymarks mid-fight). But unfortunately until the legal side of Square updates the ToS, we are going to have the blanket ban. Fortunately, Yoshi P and his team are investigating into more QoL changes (likely augmented by researching forums or looking at the most popular QoL mods) and are working to implement them in future patches. 6.1 came with many QoL changes, though minor and I hope they continue this trend.
It's a catch 22 really. I get the community myself included don't want to have 600 pages of addons to boot up with the game everytime we click play that basically beats the fight for you. And at the same time i also just wanna be allowed to run the game with a Gshade on. If anything due to me playing the game on max eye candy it makes shit harder cuz i can't see a damn thing at times.
@@SuddenFool gshade/reshade has been brought up multiple times and last I heard it was fine since it's just like applying a filter to your whole screen. Of course, that was prior to all this BS so who knows anymore.
There is no way to "handle" one without the other. They either allow mods or they don't. UNLESS, what you are saying is only streamers who cheat using alerts/cactobot/rotation automation should get banned... EMPHASIS on STREAMERS... And you're totally cool with non-streamers using any cheats, any mods, and whatever the hell they want so long as they don't flaunt it. Otherwise, you and everyone else need to understand that what they are asking for is a wholesale anti-cheat which will eliminate ALL mods, not just some, because they can't possibly keep up with a whitelist for it, and thus, its all or nothing. They also just won't do it. The theory seems sound to me. Basically, the way they do it is straight forward, any public display of ANY third party addon and ANY report by ANY party for ANY addon = ban. Period. no questions asked, severity is irrelevant, doesn't matter if its a cheat, UI, bigger boobs, or just making some boxes a bit bigger or some minor stupid stuff, any and all third party publicly displayed is bannable. If you don't want SE downloading the equivalent of adware and rootkits on your system (What most game anti-cheats are), then that's your only option. Most people are ignorant, and talking out their ass on this issue, and want some unicorn happy rainbow butterfly pie in the sky magical solution appealing to exactly their wishes with no compromises... IE... The community is stupid as shit and doesn't know what they are talking about. But it's cool, we aren't all programmers.
They don't really have a choice in the matter. UI Mods for example, can be great pieces of info like seeing certain timers of party friendly buffs, but they can also be abused to see opponents "Guard" cd remaining in PVP, which is information not natively visible. SE can't seperate these with a singular approval of 1 over the other. Mods are all accessing the same files. So outside of someone just not saying anything and outting themselves, you approve 1, you approve all, good and bad. SE literally can't do anything to win here. The safest answer was the one Yoshi P stated, which is building the most popular mods into the client. However while that does and will work to some extent, it will ALWAYS be behind the customizeable options of the modding community which will constantly push the barrier anyway. The answer isn't really to embrace modding openly. The safest thing they can probably do, is get a primary task force involved and have an open entry submission platform for mods that can be reviewed by the team. The turnaround time for this being perhaps every 2 months or so to allow for QA testing, but the idea in that timeframe would be to review a portion of the popular submissions and implement them into the client assuming they are not gamebreaking with the current flow of things. Then once they get a foothold on the mainstream items, build some sort of file protection into the client to prevent access to it from unverified sources. Outside of something like that, the current stance is the best stance unironically. It gives them freedom to go heavy handed when needed and it gives people the power to play the game as comfortable as wanted while also keeping the ToS ambiguous enough to discourage people from publicizing mods. Any other stance will literally harm everyone involved in some way.
Think my favorite part of this is that I know folks who've suffered severe harassment. They spent weeks reporting their attackers, but because the attackers were making tons of alts to accomplish it, nothing happened. But heaven forbid you make your cluttered af UI a little easier to look at.
I do not think he got the ban because of Square's ego as Xeno said, I think he got the ban because he is a well known XIV streamer and he was openly streaming using mods. Streaming and using mods is asking for trouble its like you are giving a finger to square on top of doing something against the tos. Regardless of how innocent or hideously cheating each mod is they are all against the tos and when their attention is drawn to an example like this they have to react to it else it will just make more and more players think using mods is okay, something square obviously does not want to happen.
Yeah, one guy has a mod that shows the literal mechanics of the raid, and one guy just has a prettier UI. While the rules are the rules. The severity of how SE enforces its mod rules, should differ based on the mod.
@@qlcrane8019 then change the TOS. Like this is the problem FFXIV has and the reason why I believe eventually it will become just as shit as WoW. Because it suffers from the same WoW suffered back in the day. The community is full of yes men who will defend anything the company does even if it fucks over the players because there's this idea of Yoshi-P is a god and can't do no wrong. If these mods don't affect other people's experience, don't make the game easier and can't bring legal problems to SE and they actually make people's experience better, there is no reason to ban them. Or an even easier idea, and which is something every company who gives two fucks about their players' experience does, you ban all mods to be as general as possible, just in case, but then you just ban the people that use mods who are bad from the game and you ignore everyone else. And if you weren't too busy smelling Yoshi-P's asshole, you would realise that
@@BS-se4yg What exactly is the difference between what you said in your last paragraph and what Square can do in a reasonable context? Like, what's the point of banning all mods if they only enforce that ban for specific mods? People already complain about 'inconsistency in enforcement' but they don't have any way of detecting most mods, so all they can rely on is reports from other players that they can reasonably investigate.
@Anonymous Turkey You aren't the company either. You're also no one's mom. If people want to complain that the TOS is stupid, it's within their right as customers of the game.
@@qlcrane8019 Other games manage to allow UI mods and other harmless cosmetic mods without the community going on some unholy purist crusade. This includes games that are *gasp* not named WoW. And considering that the FFXIV community recently caught their ass on fire for harassing people for the billboard which turned out to be a perfectly fine in game event, maybe it's time the community chilled out a bit. I personally also blame the developers for creating this weird witchunting community over harmless shit players do to make their play experience better.
I mean, yes, those are the kinds of mods that should be ok but for 10 years, they've been saying "Just don't show us" and content creators stay out here with mods in full display, that's on you at that point, especially since there have been so many incidenta with crazy cheating and bots now so you're begging to be made an example of. Don't break TOS on stream, why is it so hard? Lol
@@RaccoonBrigade But shit rules are still rules. Most people think weed should be legal everywhere but if you live in a state where it isn't, are you going to smoke weed live on stream and act surprised when you get arrested? No, same here, these streamers keep getting in trouble because they are showing the whole internet when they break TOS so Square has to do something when they get reported even if it's something they don't actually want or care to punish.
@Siberian This is a lie. They have always enforced their ToS provided they have the evidence. Streamers have always gotten banned routinely for mod use. The difference now is, it's far more common due to mass reporting and there's a big ass Sauron eye (SE) on the lookout because of the PVP mod abuse.
Let me take it to the extreme. If there was a law that said you are obligated to bend over and take it while everything is taken from you. Will you still be on the side of rules are rules? Too extreme? Funny cause that's the reality we live in, increasingly day by day.
@@per-terjenoreng3947 Lol this is no where near the same. This is in the TOS, if you don't agree, you don't have to play, if you agree to the TOS then you can't be mad if you get in trouble for breaking it, especially when they've been saying for almost a decade, they don't actually care what you do on your own personal computer, but if you show it and promote it, then you will get in trouble. It's no where near close to your example. It's literally like the cops saying to your face, we don't care if you do drugs, just don't put us in a position where we're forced to act by being an idiot and recording yourself live smoking crack.
The Dev team has said before that for them to curate and pick through every mod/plugin and give a list of this is okay, and this is not okay just isn't practical for them. So it's easier to just put a blanket ban on everything. Which in my opinion is fine. They have never been super aggressive at banning people for modding/plugins as long as people are smart about it, been playing with mods since heavenward and never once been banned, simply because I A: Don't talk about it in game, B: Don't talk about it on social media or any official Final Fantasy media with my user name/character name visible and C: Don't post screenshot's or content showing mods with any FF14 branding, hashtags or anything else. As long as people in the modding community followed those simple unwritten rules, they left you alone. For once I am going to say the problem isn't on Square's side, the problem is on the community side with the influx of players come's and influx of people who couldn't give a shit about Square's TOS & about the community that had already been built. I also understand why Square is cracking down on streamers showing this stuff, because end of the day it could cause trouble for them in a myriad of ways. While I fully agree not all mods/plugins are equal many are harmless, cool & helpful, many improve the quality of life in game but end of the day if you're a streamer/content creator the onus is on them. We all know the TOS, if you're going to knowingly break it and show it to the world take your lumps when you get caught out.
This is the truest true. Xeno and others are getting emotionally charged about the wrong things. Im not privy to Haru's suspension/warning history but I know it goes up in increments. Warning, 3 day suspension, 10 day, perma. With some Decay on account penalty points after 3 to 4 YEARS after the latest offense. I think Haru has gotten a suspension before, and thats why they are getting a 10 day ban for this. The GM's just add up penalty points to determine the length. The other guy cheating in DSR? We don't know if he was caught, or if he was suspended/banned. Doesn't really matter though, streamers are aware they shouldn't be using any mods of any kind while streaming the game. Its a blanket ban on all Plugins/mods because they aren't going to filter through them and give them stamps of approval/test them for security breaches. Its too resource intensive for the dev team, and console players can't use them in the first place.
@@slimfastsubaru2043 If I'm understanding how all this works (and I might not be), considering Japanese law on the matter, they actually _can't_ just say "this type of mod is ok, and this type isn't" because they would need to be specific for legal reasons.
@@slimfastsubaru2043 It sounds simple enough but end of the day Square isn't a scrappy little Indie Dev team with a single player game. They are a large corporate entity and with that comes a lot of red tape or procedures. Not to mention everything legally that comes with that comes with running a live service. If they were making absolutely no effort to update their UI & just generally improve quality of life overall, then i'd say yeah fine. They are however making that effort, granted it's a slow process but they are doing what they can when they can, and have at least acknowledged they do need to do it. Between that, and their stance of we aren't going to do anything to do you, if you are not flaunting it. It's just daft Imo to do it publicly.
@@slimfastsubaru2043 They *would* have to go through every single plugin to make sure it doesn't inject malicious code into the game. You might not think thats very important, but to a developer of a massive game, that is only multiplayer, that is extremely important. Some of the plugins people use are literal speedhacks to 'lower ping'. Like XIV Alexander. Its too much to test them all, and again, console players do fine without them. If you were in their shoes (Employed, liable), you would blanket ban all plugins and mods as well.
I wonder if they will ever come out with a mod that will show an unmodded interface for the stream while you are actually using a shitload of mods on your own screen, that would be ideal for strummers; I imagine this is already possible for ACT since streaming programs can capture specific programs and ACT is just an overlay.
The issue is really between: 1) visual/graphic mods. G shade etc. 1) Quality of life mods for UI elements like cooldown numbers being bigger on an ability, ACT, etc. 3) game bending QOL mods like XIV Alexander, clippy, that address net code/server issues. 4) actual cheating mods like the mods we saw on the DSR ultimate cheating video. The issue is that the first three address issues or features that should be addressed by SE to make the game better. The last one is the actual problem bc it erodes the integrity of the content. But bc it’s degrees of gray it’s easier for them to lump it all together. But then they aren’t consistent with it either. So it’s a clusterfuck.
ACT can as easilly erode the integrity of the game. The community would shift to exclusively caring about parses over anything else. And we know that because it happened in other games
They're already working on the first two, we know there is a graphical update in the works and they said they're looking into qol changes. They just don't want the mods advertised because it can put them in a shit spot regarding different region laws and it's a blanket rule.
I don't disagree with you for the most part, but in your opinion why would ACT be a quality of life feature? For me, I seem to think you dont necessarily need a damage counter or parses to know if your damage is good enough for a fight. I dont think people shouldn't have the freedom to use it of course, I just think I see too many negatives from it that can potentially impact the game for a few people. For example, harassment on not doing enough said damage. It spotlights the people who may be in the content for the first time- or even just having a bad day. As josh strife says, which I believe to be very true, you're not interacting with million or even thousands while playing an mmo in a day, but those handful of people you DO interact with can make or break that game for you.
From a pure analytical standpoint, not putting my opinion on it (which if you want my opinion I agree with xeno, especially on some of these things should already be in the game), this makes sense, no matter what Haru or anyone did, they BROKE the rules that they AGREED ON, when you agree and accept the TOS no if or but. SE have to show that they will act when the rule are broken, if not people will think "this is OK to do because this person is fine". Even if it's an innocent mod that like makes your hair like neon (and only you can see it) or something else dumb to a literal 1shot boss mod Of course this is separate from the topic of how much time/severity of punishment it should be Side note: They ALSO broke the verbal promise with YoshiP of if you actually do use mods, don't show it publicly, like what do you expect would happen if you stream with it???? NOT SAYING THAT SQUARE ENIX IS PERFECT BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL FAR FROM IT, but like use your brain on what the consequences of these things are
Full agreement. Doesn't matter how we feel about how SE and FFXIV and how they handle mods. Doesn't matter if we think it's silly and they should let us use them (to a degree). All that matters is that they are CURRENTLY not allowed and we all hit the "yes" when the TOS popped up at the launch of our game.
"if not people will think "this is OK to do because this person is fine"" maybe if they didnt turned a blind eye when flow of wow refugees and streamers were swarming FF XIV with their modified UIs, people woldnt think that way. I would agree with this in theory if they werent so inconsistent about it, last year they turned a blind eye to some streamers having mods because there was river of free publicity comming into FF XIV. Now that they river has dried and cheaters are embolden they can pretend that they give a fuck a bout "the rules". Square Enix actual stance on mods is "we want to do whatever the fuck we want, whenever we feel like it" i just dont like when someone has the power to enforce something but is not beholden to consistently enforce it (or at least try). Its all the power but none of the responsability. Because lets be real the grey area doesnt exist because of the mercy and kindness of Yoshi P but because it would be a pain in the ass to heavely enforce it to everyone and would cause a significant blacklash from their communities that love mods that enchance the experience without going into cheating.
@@BioMatic2 wow they turned a blind eye to something when it made them a lot of money? Like every single person and corporation ever? Those darn hypocrites. Can’t really complain about that considering the capitalist hellhole we live in.
Researching the top used mods and creating a whitelist is a couple hours work on Google. But the community doesn't care about streamers, it's less than 1% of the player base impacted, cause you can safely use all the mods if you don't talk/show. You will never be at risk for a ban.
"cause you can safely use all the mods if you don't talk/show." But why? Why is it even a risk? You could argue that mods could effect PvP, but like as a modder for other games, it screws with my mind that these devs are stabbing their community with these types of BS. Majority of the game is PvE, and the UI only effects Local and not others, then why the hell are they so strict about this shit? Majority of it should already be in game and the have had all the time in the world to add them, and havent. Hell just hire the modders to do it, add it. LIke why bite the hand that feeds?Oh shit, im thinking logically again, i forget i cant do that in the gaming industry. It makes no dam sense, especially given what the community did for them for a realm reborn. Like they can not be this dense?
@@Dr-Frost345 I agree mostly. One aspect is the achievement, people do savage, ultimate also for the accolades and status. It diminishes the achievement if 90% of the people would start doing it with mods. Additionally if square is to increase difficulty to take into account mods, would require the fights to be so difficult to be impossible without mods. That's only for these kind of cheat mods, all others are fine regardless.
What are you saying? This game has plenty of QoL. You don't realize it because it's just so convenient you don't think about it anymore, but there's a LOT of things that needed QoL updates when 2.0 launched, slowly being added by the devs using the 3rd party tools and the forum as ideas for what exactly to implement(YoshiP said it himself in a media tour btw) . It's like the difference between having a car vs not owning one.
They might add in some sort of QoL feature to know if you are targeted by another player then. For instance a small box on the side like when Tanks pulls groups, instead of Green/Yellow/Red symbols it can be separated and a 'Blue' symbol with a name can be used to show a player is highlighting you? Though, in a sense it might make things a bit awkward when you see the names of 20-30 people clicking you and highlighting you to emote you.
I think the part about it being on video is that it advertises it. Which gets more people interested in looking for Add ons, which goes down a rabbit hole.. and while most people think add ons like that are no big deal (and I semi agree) you gotta also remember that 60%+ can’t even get add ons on their consoles. The stuff just starts spiraling and getting out of control and that’s where you get dumb stuff like pc only parties, or codes for what addons they expect you to have etc.. I think until they can control it, they will be more open to it
The other thing is streamers may be showing the game a certain way with the mods, and people considering playing it may be disappointed and vocalize their displeasure that the game wasn't what they expected because they watched X streamer playing it with mods. It's a slippery slope of potential bad publicity SE wants to avoid because although it's not false advertising...it can be construed as such.
@@ragingcyclone369 totally agree and while this may be a super small population 1. It’s still resources and time SE has to waste dealing with dissatisfied customers or low user reviews and 2. It’s probably so small to begin with cause they have some of these measures. End of the day I think they probably banned too hard for a UI mod, but otherwise I understand why they probably do it
It took me half the video before I realized they were talking about buff timers... SOMETHING THEY ADDED BECAUSE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN BASE GAME TO BEGIN WITH!!! I hope they gave him half a year of free playtime for their incompetence
i feel like they ban these kinds of mods because it opens the door to all other mods. just look at what happened to wow and some other games with mods. first it started slow and harmless with mods that give no benefits to the players and over the years it developed in the situation that wow is in now where you have to use these mods or u are not getting invited to raids . so back to final fantasy, i think it is too hard for square enix to allow quality of life mods and then controll and make sure that people stick to these mods and dont use cheating mods. tldr: banning all mods is easier than allowing some and banning the cheating mods
Tbh i think its bs that ppl get banned for ui mods. With that being said though, its also kind of dumb to stream yourself using them. square were pretty clear about this very recently in an updated tos. I have no sympathy for that guy at all, he knew the risks of using mods and now he pays for it simples. I think overall though, its the fact the guy was streaming himself using the mods that pushes square to ban in the first place. They are trying to steer people away from using mods, then u got some guy broadcasting himself using them. If they did not make an example out of this guy, people start to think "oh if he can get away with it on stream, then I can get away with it as well". Then before they know it, everyone is using mods because they think they will get away with it. I know it does seem like a very petty thing to do banning someone for a ui mod, but they kind of have to do it or everyones jus gonna start using mods again and then the whole grey area scenario will be a thing again. I feel like if this guy had just used mods off-stream and turned them off while streaming he never would have received a ban since at least he's keeping it pretty private and under the radar and also maybe theres no way they can know if he is using them or not outside of streaming eporting. Tbh, I think the dev team should just make an ffxiv SDK for modders and have an upload\database kind of thing (similar to how bethesda does modding) and only allow mods they approve to be uploaded and stuff. They wouldn't have to do any of the work, just need some QA to make sure the mods are ok to use. Everyone is happy then surely, and we don't have to go through all this banning bs
Really great idea for a video quite honestly. I'm glad that you chose to make it. This video should be shared by the vast majority of the community as kind of a substantiated counterpoint of how the system for reports and action on the reports are actually being made. I would think this sounds appropriate in most cases. Everything is left up to individual perspective unless they check it with their supposed supervisor or lead on checking the supposed reports on such a thing. In a word... Just straight up helpful for recognizing how it should be changed. (The only time somebody should actually really get banned for gameplay related things is if you are using modifications that give you a higher degree of telegraphing or informational things that enhance the likelihood that someone would survive artificially.
I wish I could say I was shocked. I saw the writing for this kinda thing on the wall when that stupid video about the ultimate raider came out. And while it sucks and its stupid that this happened to Haru, I can't really blame them. We were warned time and time again by Yoshi P, in those most disappointed dad way possible, and now people like that ultimate raider douchebag are gonna effectively destroy addons as a whole for everyone. I don't think anyone is safe, if you think its ok to you use chat bubbles, I don't think it is anymore. And Square needs to be really careful cause if they ban the wrong person. it could come back to really bite them. This whole thing is a mess because some people are just so criminally stupid about flaunting their disregard for the rules in the most flagrant way possible.
From a completely different perspective, all UI mods, including the incredibly cheater one, seem to be safe as long as you aren't streaming them. At least, I haven't heard of anyone complaining they were banned for addons they never told anyone about. I agree with your main point, but there's a sizable difference between no one being safe and streamers not being safe.
@@fluffyfang4213 Exactly there needs to be evidence of you using said mods, so if you don't stream or post videos, you're fine. It is sad that streamers don't have a way to filter out the people who would put their stream and account in jeopardy like that. And with no way of finding out who reported them it will just keep happening.
I mean, I play on ps4 so no mods for me, and I don’t care enough to use mods even if I played on PC, so I really don’t have a hat in this race but I honestly think the “incompetence” argument is kind of flawed. For one it’s making an assumption on the reason for the enforcement of TOS, secondly, there are a large quantity of UI mods that alter a myriad of different things, are square expected to implement them all? Or just the “needed” ones? Who decides which ones are needed? The players who use it for hardcore raiding? The casual? Roleplayers? It’s not a simple fix, but that doesn’t mean there are no potential solutions. One perhaps might be to create something akin to Steam’s Workshop were upon users might be allowed to submit modifications for approval by square directly, and then downloaded through the launcher. Now this is not without its own issues, with an approved mods list, players would now be obligated to only use mods from said list or once again face punishment for violating TOS for unapproved modification. And this could cover a wide variety of things from not just UI, but graphical, audio, unspecified rp mods. And the list would go on and on. That however leads to the second point, while modifying the pc version is “easy enough” making those same types of changes is not so easy for the console. So the new problem of how to allow console players this same level of modification comes around, as Square is very keen about ensuring that both pc and console have as close to a similar experience as feasibly possible, which is the actual reason for the “delete the videos” demand. It is not that they are trying to hide their flaws, especially given how open they usually are with taking what fault onto themselves they can. But instead it is far more likely that in the pursuit of not giving potentially new players the wrong idea of what the game looks and performs like, they thus insist evidence of modifications be deleted so as to again, present a uniform experience to players on both versions.
Ok so, not sure why this is coming up now a year later for me but may as well talk about this while we're here. You're not wrong Xeno and I totally agree with you on a conceptual level, when it comes to user experience and mods that don't hurt anyone (in terms of user experience), but at the same time you're missing context which is relevant here. This is a complex topic and there's a lot that has to be very specifically defined and laid out, because it's in these fuzzy understandings we all have of things that the whole engine of this issue exists. So reddit level of a youtube comment breaking it down ahead. So first off lets just say something out the gate, UI modification that provides QoL of improvement for a user, really should be something that is not only fine, but supported. But what a lot of people tend to miss is using the term "Mods" doesn't really accurately describe what's going on here, and it is in this fuzz of discussion on the topic that a lot of misunderstandings happen. So we have to break things down a bit here, mods fall into one of five categories. Direct File Replacement, Plugin Injectors, Addons+Addon APIs and External Data Parsing, External Gamestate Data Modification. What type of mod a mod is matters, and is the core aspect of this whole topic from a development perspective because they are fundamentally different even if a player may feel they're the same. TexTools would be an exmaple of a Direct File Replacement. Dalamud and GShade would be a Plugin Injector. (Dalamud being a generalised plugin injection platform, GShade being a complete pre-built solution) We do not have any Addon/Addon APIs in XIV (We should!), but these would be like Addons in WoW. ACT would an example of an External Data Parser. CE would be an example of an External Gamestate Data Modification. Direct File Replacement mods work by, as the name describes, directly replacing one or more assets in the game's directory, so the game loads a file created or modified by the user. This typically is not code, and is more often textures, materials, 3D models, animations, sounds etc. In XIV, this is done by modifying files contained inside DAT files, which are just giant archives of smaller files. The DAT is loaded as a package, with everything that is contained inside, at runtime and assets loaded and unloaded as required. Essentially the entire cabinet is loaded and no distinction is made between the assets within it, the entire DAT being treated logisitically as an entity in of itself as far as loading is concerned. This *typically* does not interact with the game at runtime, with the exception again, of files that have been modified to implement a plugin system. Addons and Addon APIs work by developers creating an API endpoint which an addon can then query in standardised ways to retrieve and set information about the gamestate through intentionally exposed and defined functions. Code in this case is not directly interacting with the game, but rather interacting with the API which then interacts with the game on the code's behalf. Everything we think of when it comes to plugins, can be done by an Addon/Addon API, asuming the functions to allow for it are exposed to the API by the developer. Then, we have external parsers like ACT which reads data about the gamestate either from memory or from network state, then use this to do things outside of the game. So this would collate and process data from the game, and can be used to create overlays or information not otherwise normally available to the player via the UI, but *is* already available to the client. Next up, we have External Gamestate Data Modification Tools, like CE. These are tools that do not only read data from the gamestate, but also actively modify data held in memory to in turn modify the game state. When you see mages teleporting around gridania, this is typically what you're seeing, (but it can also theoretically be plugins, but getting to that next). So I wanted to leave the Plugin category for last, because it is the specifics of how this type of mod works that is the source for the whole current ongoing issue. Plugin systems fall into two categories, bespoke and generalised, but at their core they work the same way. Plugin systems come in two parts. The first part being the "payload", the payload is the part of a plugin that contains code or assets that do what direcrtly affects the user experience. So examples of payloads would be the mods you download to use in Dalamud, or would be the shaders used in GShade. Secondly, we have the "Injector", the injector being the part of the plugin system that loads the payload into the game's active memory and directly interfaces with the game on a code level. It is critically important to understand this key detail of how a plugin works. The Payload and the Injector are two entirely different things and an injector is ambivilent to the contents of the payload it is being used to inject. Payloads can be "safe" or "unsafe" or "harmful" or "Hurt no one", but an injector makes zero distinction here and is incapable of doing so. A payload is a payload. Injectors work by using direct file replacement to replace one a file that contains functions from the game's code, usually this targets DLL files which contain 3rd party functions that are being used by the game (Things like Direct X implementations or propietry media encoding link libraries etc, most injectors target the implementation of Direct X by a game but there is no rule that says this needs to be the case, some also target physx libraries for example). These files, and their associated functions are replaced with ones that when executed by the game at runtime, contain additional code that specifically loads the payload and passes it into memory and/or modifies the gamestate as if it was any other function of the game's codebase.
It is this *specific* aspect about injectors that make them the problem they are. If an Addon API is a door and addons are things coming and going thorugh that door, then an Injector is a hammer that smashes a hole in the wall and expose the innards to payloads. With bespoke plugin systems, this is less of a problem because the injector is loading a specific payload, and that payload can be evaluated from a game perspective on if it is "Okay" or not, such is the case with ReShade when SQuenix allowed its use in a ruling back in ARR. With generalised systems, like dalamud, this changes, because the injector system is creating an unofficial endpoint for payloads to interact with, or it's entirely injecting these payloads into the game's executable at runtime. For all intent and purposes, these plugins become the game's code, and inherit access to everything and anything about the game state, and from a security perspective, also inherit the related system privleges as a result. While this hole exists, there is no way to make any distinction from a development and user perspective of any of the payloads that go in through this hole. When we're talking about injectors, especially generalised injection systems, there is no such thing as "safe" mods and "unsafe" mods, because the distinction is impossible and this cannot be seperated from the conversation. This gets even more problematic when you consider that dalamud allows for loading and injection of REMOTE payloads from hosted repos online via URL! It is an entirely possible, albiet kind of wild scenario, to wake up one day and suddenly your rotation helper is now farming crypto on your machine through FFXIV to put how far this problem can go into perspective. With plugins, it is not possible to stop the "bad ones" and allow "the good ones", because the system is not interacting in a granular form with the game's code like you would see in an API that has loads of different endpoints for different low-level things an Addon can do, it is just a hole in the wall and everything and anything can be injected through it. It becomes entirely trust based. Which does not work in any game that has a multiplayer competitive scene, and even more so does not work in any game that fundamentally depends on the granular fine tuning of the integrity of the user experience and the assumption of a consistent one *where it matters*. The problem with plugins is not and has never been people modifying their game to make it feel better, change UI, have little speech bubbles. The problem is and has always been that it is not possible on a fundamental conceptual level to do any kind of filtering or control or anything, to target specific types of plugins. It's like members of a party in a raid, you stand together or you wipe together. There is zero distinction that can be made. But this is exactly why we should be asking for an Addon API, and why using the right terms matter. With an Addon API this problem does not exist, because nothing is being injected, there is one or multiple addon endpoints in the game's code that external addons can interact with and through it gain access to read and set game data within allowed allowed bounds and allowed data instances, and even allow for creation of new UI strata to add entirely new QoL UI elements. Exactly the same way a plugin does, the only difference being all of this is done interacting wiht developer maintained generalised endpoints, which can be created, destroyed, expanded and shrunk in scope as needed to allow for all the types mods we want as a player base, without any of the threat that comes with things like plugins to facilitate cheating. That's why these terms matter, because when we say "mods", there is so much that comes under that word, that all work so differently, that we're just yelling into the void at each other until eventually SQuenix pull the nuclear option and limit everything, and they absolutley can do this, they just haven't. But if we recognise the problem with dalamud, is not the modified user experience it is used to create, but rather the problem is dalamud itself, then that allows us to bring things to a more fact informed basis where we as a community can ask for an Addon API, without emotionally charged defensiveness kicking in over defense of dalamud and unfit for purpose approaches to genuinely good things. I want QoL improvements as much as any one else, I am 100% in support of addons and an addon API to facilitate this at a fast pace from the talented playerbase, but plugins just aint it chief and it's important if we're talking about these things, to actually know what it is we're talking about, because it's all too easy to end up defending something we think we want because we're confusing it with something else, as is often the case with Dalamud.
Wow that was actually so long that UA-cam forced me to cut it up into two parts LOL. I know how hella cringe it is to write something that long about this, but the truth is that there is so much fine specific detail and terms here that directly change all this that really cause all the constant storm of discussion about this, so that care had to be taken to properly step through how these things work and what they are and what they aren't, so we can have useful conversations about these thigns that actually reflect our views rather than the constant noise of a community-wide misunderstanding of the topic, so we can start asking Square Enix for support for things like Addons that bring all of the benefits, with none of the downsides.
The fact of the matter is when you are streaming and shows mods of any kinds will deem it as advertisement. It doesn't matter what your intentions are. That's the nature of broadcasting to public. This means all that choose to be a public figure via broadcasting has an an extra layer of responsibility. And ultimately the opinions of yours and mine doesn't matter.
Being a streamer is like being a manager. For every person who successfully gets into a management position, you have many envious people who will try to find a way to remove you so they can take your place. Odds are this report was done by a less or not at all successful streamer in hopes that his followers would find and follow them instead.
@@femka I already know better than that, but neither do streamers. Being a successful streamer is mostly luck. For every successful streamer, there are hundreds more who are just as good or better who fail because they while they do everything right, it takes an incredible amount of luck to be at the right places at the right times to gain an audience that will stick around. Naturally, bad streamers will crash and burn, but so will good streamers if they're not careful because, as I said before, there's a horde of people desperate to take your place who will bring you down if you give them the opportunity.
Multiple things here can be true all at once. 1) Yes it's stupid that ui mods that are "harmless" that are not assisting playing in any way are treated the same as game-breaking mods. 2) All mods are against TOS. 3) Breaking TOS can get you punished. TL;DR: Don't stream with the mods. Like life, as long as you don't flaunt your rule-breaking no one will pay any attention to it.
But each rule break has a level of severety. You get a 3 day ban for slight harrassment (snowflakes ruined online gaming anyway, thats why most people dont talk anymore to each other) but you can get a 30day or a perma for shit like n-word and death threats for example. Putting an ui mod and a game breaking cheater mod on the same level makes people think "if i get banned anyway why not using cheat-mod to clear the ultimate?" If the punishment is the same you would want to get the most out of it if you go for it.
A lot of antis for Vtubers and such could start using old clips to get people banned now. I wouldn't be surprised if someone manages to edit videos to fake something in to get someone banned too.
They already did with a player in jp. People nodded their game to look like the victim charecter and name and made fake clip about him. He actually got perma banned. When he literally did nothing
@@qlcrane8019 Yeah they do. This whole fiasco started with people reporting the person who uploaded the WF DSR clear and getting the red mage on their team banned. I am not sure how many dumb examples need to happen before people realize that this policy is stupid.
@@24hr-Gaming Oh fuck off the person literally knew they could've gotten banned amd did it anyway. This logic is exactly why they do blanket shit for mods now. 'Oh don't ban streamers for mods' 'My mod is ok but look at THIS mod'
Its weird to see square support sometimes saying they are not banning people with only VOD/video evidence but at the same time do it anyway. For haru of course it was morr live but others...
@Anonymous Turkey dude says it himself that he'd have to remove "all his clips and vods" from twitch because almost all of them contain the mods. they've likely been watching Haru for awhile.
If people actually cared so much about the mods and add-ons they should consistently use the tools available to voice their concerns to the devs. Instead of being outraged for a couple of days on youtube or twitter after something like this happens then go back to doing their normal stuff. They should be on the official forums blowing it up, in a civil way, expressing what they want in the game. Make it so they can't ignore the issue. Minor acts of defiance such as just using mods despite the risks then being surprised when there are consequences for breaking the clearly expressed rules doesn't do anything. If people put half as much effort into actually trying to solve a problem as they do complaining about it things would actually get done. And if in the end they don't do anything about it, then decide if those minor UI issues are too much for you to keep playing the game.
Square Enix will always take people to make examples for a short period of time, and not solve the problem at all, just exactly what happened with bots and RMT back in 2016, it is for sure, explicit in the ToS and everywhere related to XIV since ever, it is not new the use is strictly prohibited, and streaming with it only makes things worse, but like, if they care "that much", why not actually try to solve it and put some actual QoL in the game features, to try to minimize this, and """solve""" part of the problem instead of only make examples. I know, work is hard, think is hard to separate actually harmless stuff that is just a re-skin, and take actions against real problems is hard, because the PvP bots still there, the farm bots still there, people using mods, still and will be there like all the other I've pointed.
couldnt agree more. i think 99% of UI mods are just to make things easier to see. its not like its telling you how to play or helping your gameplay. if people i play with use it idc id only care if their mod is having an actual impact on their performance. if your inventory looks different or certain numbers or spells are bigger on your screen then i really dont care. or at least it shouldnt be punished as hard as someone who cheats like the other dude you showed
It's in a rough spot, it's very dumb to ban someone over a color palate swap or a cooldown timer, but SE seems to be on edge and just cleaning house. Best course of action would probably be just to chill on mods till SE makes progress on adding them as official settings or it blows over. Granted either of those could take a hell of a long time, it's just a sticky situation right now.
That's what he get for playing with fire, you act like this is the first time SE has said to keep it hush hush if you're using mods. He knew the consequences and he didn't give a damn. I also agree with xeno that SE should update and maybe overhaul reporting as a whole.
its not ego nor it can not be done due spaghetti code but due spaghetti code it would take long time with large number of devs which would result in bigger content luls and thinner patches. My recent memory brings examples as EW login prob (error 2002), housing lottery, Glam dresser400-800,... Big parts of the game are outdated and need QoL, spaghetti code makes house of cards known as our beloved FFXIV which makes any changes with QoL take time if not breaking the whole system My COPIUM- 7.0 new game engine if not then current upgraded, 8.0 new game engine&new game code which makes game more responsive
I sorta new to FFXIV and I think the biggest problem I've seen in regards to the Devs is that they remove (or in tis case ban) things and promise to make things better but instead they should just do that when they already have a replacement. Nobody would care if all mods were bannable if there was already good UI options but since there isnt people are against Square Enix on this since there are needed improvements that just arent in the game.
I don't think its incompetence, this goes back to the billboard discussion, its the image of the game. People are altering the game and streaming it that if people come to the game after watching someone stream with major UI mods, they aren't going to understand why their game looks different and why they don't have the things they saw the streamer have and it shows that people can just do whatever they want with the game files. I don't agree with this but I believe this to be the reason.
SE has a choice, put adware on its users computers like every other MMO company out there, or don't, but punish people who publicly breach TOS... This game is REALLY easy to mod, REALLY easy to hack, and anyone can absolutely hook into the game and change a ton of stuff or fully automate it (As evidence by the thousands of bots who gather 90% of the mats sold on the marketboard). The only reason it's not widespread known how vulnerable the game is comes from the fact that most players aren't programmers, and SE rightfully bans ANYONE who publicly shows any modifications... But rest assured we are all playing with at least a few people who use extensive cheats, they just happen to be discrete about it. The punishment targeting only streamers, influencers, and people who post shit publicly makes sense since they want to avoid adding an anticheat.
My guess is that it was a 10 day not because it was someone using UI mods, but because it was someone streaming with UI mods and potentially advertising them making it a worse problem. If it wasnt a streamer it'd probably be 2 or 3 days.
A lot of people don't think about individuals who have medical issues such as vision impairments when it comes to addons. I've tried three times to main FF14, but as I've gotten older my already bad vision has only worsened. The little cooldown numbers / UI customization is no where near what I need it to be to be competitive. In WoW (when I still played) addons like Bartender and GTFO helped a ton when it comes to my vision. I could create clean bars, with large yellow text to make it possible to track my cooldowns and rotation, freeing up my focus on what is happening in the fight and allowing me to stay competitive. And of course, GTFO would scream at me if I was standing in something that is difficult to see (because blizz is so bad at making damage circles that are the same color as the floor). Of course, there are addons that are straight up cheats, I'm not arguing that. All I want is for people to take into consideration that some addons only enhance the experiences of players due to conditions that they can not control. Lets face it, most if not ALL mmorpgs on the market have TERRIBLE UI configurations, customization, and make bad fight designs when it comes to being able to hear / see dangerous mechanics.
Good news. Don't let SE know you have them and nothing will happen. They have no way of knowing you're using any sort of UI mod unless you stream it or say so in game, so you're in the clear to use them as long as you're not dumb about using them.
What if, for a minute, it's about a guy who works as GM and has to deal with this report. Should he turn a blind eye and close the case with "solved" status and got punished if someone decided to check his work? i don't think so, why should he risk his, i dunno, career/stability/job to save some random guy from punishment. I mean sure, UI mods are harmless and i like how people react when someone get banned, but no one thinks about these guys who's doing their job. You've to deal with people who's hunting streamers for reports, if you don't want to be banned, i dunno, just don't use the mods/hide them until they update the UI, since they said that they will do that. Like i don't get it, TOS is against them but i'll use them and i'll be bitching about when i got banned and fuck this dude who's banned me why he didn't risked his income for me.
No one is blaming the gm lmao. Thry did their job as it's meant to. The god awful tos and square having a stick up their ass is what's people get annoyed about.
The day people like Papachin get hired onto the dev team will be the day a lot of people that mod become a ton happier with the game. Change my mind lol
After Bagel and the DSR ban wave, people would have learned not to fall down the slippery slope, they aren't going to play this UI is okay and this isn't game.
Mods are against ToS. Using mods violates ToS. It doesn't matter which mods. Breaking ToS will get you a suspension. People complain about Blizzard not enforcing ToS and then they come to Final Fantasy and complain about Square-Enix enforcing ToS. Pick a lane. Don't mistake, I don't see anything wrong with QoL mods, I'd actually like to use some of them, but I don't. Because they're against ToS. The rules are the rules.
While I don't agree that SE's stance on addons is born from an inflated ego, this entire don't-ask-don't-tell situation just reeks of neglect on their part. The worst part is that they've spent so long neglecting to enforce their own ToS that I don't think there's an easy way to definitively address this issue without pissing a lot of people off. Ideally SE should have jumped on top of this issue right from the beginning and implemented an official addon API of their own or put in an anticheat or *something* before these 3rd party tools matured and became popular, but they didn't. But hey, it's free reaction content whenever someone gets banned. At least we have that.
I believe the reason they went with the don't-ask-don't-tell is that it makes modding things much safer for the vast majority of the player base, and they really don't actually care about UI mods and chat bubbles. They just can't keep up a constant list of allowed mods and bannable mods, so blanket banning everything is a smart decision for them because you just can't realistically keep track of every mod, all it's features, and create a constantly updating list of mods that are ok, its just impossible for them to keep up with. The reason this don't-ask-don't-tell philosophy works for the vast majority is that there is no possible way for you to be caught unless someone gets video proof and reports you, or if you speak about it in a game chat. This means normal players who dont stream/make content for the game will never ever have to worry about being banned for their ui mods, glam mods, etc. which I think is a good thing. The problem now is that content creators have become unsafe since they constantly show their screen to the public, and now that SE is starting to enfore the tos, its screwing them over. I do agree that its very annoying that they just randomly now started enforcement after years of letting it slide, but I also think you are making an extremely poor decision if you make content on the game without removing your mods. Twitch streamers being banned for these mods is partially the fault of SE imo, as they have gone so long without enforcement, but the majority of fault goes to the streamer for taking that risk in the first place. The only people I see being banned for dumb things like UI and chat bubbles are streamers, so they should really just stop using these mods on stream, its just a bad decision now especially with people in the community who are constantly trying get streamers banned.
I have thoughts counter to Xeno's thoughts on this subject but after spending some time writing a fairly lengthy message about it trying to get my language JUST RIGHT so that I accurately got my point across I realized that I had just wasted 5 minutes of my life on a subject that's already been talked about to death and which I'm certainly not going to sway Xeno on one way or another and as such I should just take this video as entertainment and move on with my day.
Whilst the majority of the dev team deserves all the praise they get, the UI team is by far the worst in the industry. Slow, out-of-touch, menu simulator nonsense. It only took what, 8 years to see on the map mini aetherytes? It's like they have no passion for making beautiful and functional UI. Completely incompetent.
I think it is a combination of various factors. 1) Japan tends to be behind the curve on UI and looks overall, heck their yahoo page looks like it is from the 90s or early 2000s because people were used to it; 2) Japan's lack of computer culture compared to the West means less experienced devs or devs with insight on user-friendliness; 3) Their coding, Yoshi P and his team repeatedly have stated that a lot of functions were sort of afterthoughts since they rushed to reboot FFXIV, which means spaghetti coding and to change even a line of coding could mean completely redoing things from scratch or crashing the entire crash server, compound with the fact that a good number of the original devs for FFXIV 1.0 didn't even bother to make notes left their team scrambling to figure out stuff even the UI team; 4) Their need to also account for console usage with a controller since FFXIV is one of the few MMOs on console, though I will say they should look to other games for UI improvements; and 5) insular and busy culture preventing them from seeing new things or adjusting to sudden changes or conditions, Yoshi P is already very outward looking and takes influence from other teams, companies, games, and so forth, but even so he is only one man. Fortunately, they have been observing and implementing QoL and UI improvements and I hope they continue this trend.
While I can understand the outcry of "Its just a reskin/UI Mod" as someone that has to oversee similar issues on a day to day basis, you cannot reasonably start putting in those kinds of exceptions to the rule. It would stretch already thin resources to breaking. So yes, SE treats all mods the same and hands out discipline for them all on an even level. So UI mods are the same as gameplay/Boss mods. Sure some acts can be particularly egregious but for the most part they are all on the same level. SE is also fairly consistent in that they do not hunt for it, but act when it is reported and proof provided.
If a company can't reasonably tell the difference between tweaking a UI to make it look better vs. actually f**king cheating, that's not a issue with mods, that's in issue with the moderators. Even if you can't outwardly make exceptions, it doesn't require a genius to look at a case and go, "yep harmless" and ignore it.
Honestly I'm just so tired with all this mod bullshit...at one point I'm just trying to imagine another timeline where this game only exist on consoles. Shout-out to console players, you guys are amazing, if somehow someway SE just straight up ban every single mod in the future..at least we know who can play the game better without mod.
@@resixte6n842 I don't know what's worse, the fact that you think all mods somehow make people better at the game, or that you think console players are "better" because they can't use mods. There's probably a ton of then that would absolutely get mods if they could. Also banning all mods would harm the game not make it better. The matter of the fact is, the modding community is huge and probably makes for a huge chunk of the player base. Alienating all those players will widely be regarded as a bad move.
@@saemitatsuya8419 what are you talking about? All mods are literally already banned. And it won’t alienate anyone except streamers, because SE cannot know if you use mods unless you fucking broadcast it to every schumck on the internet. I don’t know why streamers can’t get this very simple thought through their brains.
I use quite a few QoL mods (chat bubbles, modified CD timers, and achievement trackers), but I'm also not stupid enough to stream the game while doing so. Haru knew the risks, and it only takes a single troll with too much time on their hands to get him banned. Does this really surprise anyone? I should hope not.
I think some people just don't realize how hard it is to filter out each and every mod you'd have to give individual approval for if you wanted to allow mods officially. If it's a blanket ban they don't have to waste a lot of time trying out each and every individual mod. Is it a bit lazy? Perhaps, but they've claimed they'll be adding in popular mods into the game itself if it's for QoL updates and stuff.
@@chabꟊ Not really, it is pretty tricky when the lawyers get involved. You start creating lists, but then people keep pushing the list and rules, so they have to clarify. Then those clarifications need clarifications and exceptions and soon you will get a complicated ToS that confuses people even more. Not the mention how Japanese IP laws are regarding mods. Then you have to tell the hires what to watch out for, but the issue is what happens if there is something that straddles the grey area? Do you keep the status quo? Do you suspend the user? Yoshi P said that he doesn't want to waste time and recourses (i.e. people report to him while he is dealing with a new FFXIV expansion and FFXVI) and to not get Square's more corporate side involved, he just says a blanket ban is fine. He has stated that ACT could be a ToS violation (it is), but he isn't going to go out of his way to ban people if they are hiding it or not being toxic to other players. So long as you have some plausible deniability the devs are not going to bother. The team could install something like an anti-cheat or something that detects the more outrageous mods and third-party applications, but he generally prefers not to. Anti-cheats according to Yoshi P are illegal, what I think is that they are likely not illegal per see but there need to be some significant modifications for it to be compliant with Japanese law and then resources are wasted in updating and maintaining it, as the addition of anti-cheat measures just makes some people try to break it. then again because of my training, I am watching it from a legal perspective rather than an end-user perspective.
@@coolyeh1017 thank you, I was going to mention that this is more of a legal nightmare than a logistics nightmare, but that put it into much better words than I ever could.
You make the game have an API so you can enforce what can and cant be modified by 3rd party addons. WoW has one, ESO has one for example. If you dont want something moddable, then you make it so those parts of the game cant be interacted with by players. This is how WoW breaks addons that cross the line
@@TheDapperDragon It is going to be tough, but realistically as long as you don't show it you are fine. The problem is that there are many modders and people who are willing to cross the line on ToS even for cosmetic mods. For example the nude mods incident on Twitter, Yoshi P said that he doesn't want to walk into the legal quagmire because lack of cracking down on those mods may mean an implicit approval by Square Enix and thus affects the ratings of the game or get into trouble with local regulatory authorities. Square of course is going to keep a blanket ban because again to keep track of what is okay or not is a nightmare. What is okay to one person may not be okay to another person. Another issue is what about consoles, FFXIV is also sold on the PS4/5, unless you modify the console itself (which is apparently a criminal offense in Japan without approval) there are no mods that can lead to a disparity. What about Steam users? What about their other FFXIV clients in China and Korea? But fortunately, Yoshi P and his team understand that they cannot meet the demands of every person and as such allow cosmetic mods so long as you don't bring it to their attention.
@@XenosysVex Really? I just remembered all the stuff a while back with them needing to fix the stupid "Bans never drop off" thing with the account penalty point system. (Which is still stupid cause warnings fall off in 1-2 years and bans falls off in 3 -6)
Over fucking UI mods that don't give any advantage whatsoever (except maybe make numbers more easy to read). Holy shit what a sad example of enforcing a rule. And even worse, forcing the affected person to remove their hard work off the face of the internet OR ELSE! Fucking gross. Be better Square Enix...
Actually that's pretty bogus considering there were people who actually did a billboard with mod outfits as well as data mind for the Summer event that's going to be coming the 10th of this month that they announced and they got nothing but a slap on the wrist but yet they used to UI to make things pretty and they got a 10-day band? Square enix really needs to get their stuff together and orderly.
Unless it's gives you advantage in a competetive scene(PvP) Who gives a fuck. This game is basically a single player game so i really don't understand these ToS simps losing their mind over UI mods. Very strange and very cringe.
It's pretty cut and dry when you compare something like that DSR cheater to chat bubbles. But the problem is over time when more and more things get added, they'll get closer and closer to that line until it reaches a point where you can't easily tell what is unfair anymore. It happened in WoW where at first simple UI changes for quality of life evolved into stuff like Gladius, which gives an insane informational advantage over someone not using it. And at this point if you asked people who do arena is Gladius is cheating, they'd say no, because everyone should be using it if they are serious about pvp. The main difference in FF14 vs WoW is that console players can't use the addons. So the answer can never be for people to just use it if it's better for everyone, because then the console would have a clearly worse experience. That's why for them the answer has to be nobody uses it, and that they'll try and add the things people really like to the game so that console players can enjoy them too. That said, I think that anyone using mods on the level of the DSR guy should get a flat out permaban. Probably ban anyone in his family too, just to be safe. He's the one they should nuke from orbit and make an example of to try and discourage this, because otherwise people will just think that it's worth a 10 day ban to cheat to get legend.
That is also a dumb argument. Consoles will always not have as much functionality as PCs. That's been true for any game that's ever supported crossplay, FFXIV isn't the first one. Never has that been used as an excuse to go out of their way to punish PC players because they can't bring QoL to both PC and console players. Do you know that due to how FFXIV handles screen resolution you have a huge advantage in raid if you use a wide screen monitor? You can suddenly see twice the arena size. Those things are expensive too, but no one sane would say that's a reason to remove wide screen support.
@@24hr-Gaming I wasn't saying it's a good reason. I just think it IS the reason. It's an easy excuse to not give the PC players a leg up on the console players. Should it be that way? Obviously not. But playing on console would be a worse experience if they did allow full mod support for the PC version, so if they want to continue to say that console access to FF14 is a selling point, they have to keep them a remotely close experience.
i once reported someone for harassing me publicly and privately using their retainer / retainer name when i tried selling stuff in "their market" in 4.0 i reported them, SE did nothing, i tried to warn people about said person. i was suspended for 10 days for 1st offense
the reason this happens is because japan doesn't have fair use laws that allow for reasonable third party implements, since it's made in japan it has to follow these legal guidelines. thats the whole reason. it's not them being petty. they are following their countries commerce laws. many third party mods count as a redistribution of FFXIV's assets, which are protected under japanese commerce laws.
What i dont understand is why force them to delete VODs and clips on twitch only? What about youtube and other social media sites? Either way i find this extremly concerning that they take your account hostage if you dont comply deleting your videos
I think they consider youtube a sort of plausible deniability in "well, we can't say for *sure* that the UI isn't edited in a video editor after the recording was taken" versus the unedited livestream. I'd assume it's the fact that by having those VODs/clips up you're continuing to endorse breaking the TOS even while banned.
It's pretty simple don't break ToS, don't advertise that you do, and you won't get banned for it. If you want these mods in the game, then talk about it on the official forums. Start a movement and make it so they can't ignore the want for a better UI ect.
Honestly I'm with everyone saying to just stop flaunting the mods if you're gonna be streaming or recording Complain if you like by all means, but they made it clear that if you don't flaunt it or say anything, they won't try and ban you since they need evidence of it to confirm the TOS violation Yall are poking the bear by flaunting or having it on stream, and the consequences are starting to rear their head
This is why I haven't even gotten the faster launcher thing for the game yet. I want to, I want the simple QoL it brings like having a text bubble above players when they speak in chat, but I don't because of bullshit like this. I fully understand Square don't want a WoW situation with their addons where people get DBM equivalents and make everything easy, but they could just say "Hey, UI and QoL stuff is fine, but if you use anything that's actually cheating you're gone." UI, QoL, and anything else that doesn't objectively make fights and other things easier should not be against ToS. I find that I tend to lose sight of my mouse when its on-screen during combat from time to time. I don't use it to click abilities (unless I otherwise have to in certain situations) but I like to know where it is should I need it, and keep it out of the way when I don't, and in WoW I found an addon that made it so whenever you move your mouse it had some fancy glowy particles trail behind it to help you keep track of it, and that was really helpful. I can live without it, but being able to get something like that and not risk getting banned somehow would be nice. I don't stream or anything, but the risk is still there.
With the whole billboard and Twitch Cheater drama I’m not surprised that they are cracking down. All it takes is a few idiots and now while things are still hot it makes sense SE is enforcing TOS since mods were supposed to be more of a “hush hush” sort of thing. Genuinely sucks for the twitch streamer and I hope things are resolved but for now I don’t think showing streams with mods is safe right now or possibly ever again. Makes me wonder if they’re going to go after footage that’s already out there as well
I mean, SE has stated multiple times that third party mods are a no-no. For a really long time, SE never enforced these statements and the community made fun of them. Now they are enforcing them because the community kept pushing harder and harder. Am I happy they treat small UI mods and overly advantageous mods the same ? Nope. But if you know the rules, you knowingly decide to go against them and you get caught. That's on you.
I got banned for two days, because I chased one of my guildmembers through gridania for fun and forgot to disable emotes. I emotet maybe 7 to 10 emotes in a row (slapping him and throwing something on him) Someone reportet and i got to the exact same room as haru HOURS later. Right away from raid. To get told i was banned for 2 DAYS. For litterally nothing very upsetting, not even cheating...
If there are rules, and you are aware of such rules. And you deliberately decided to break said rules. You have no right to be mad about the punishment. Regardless of how ridiculous these rules might be.
It's unfortunate that for people to make content about the game, they have to actively tone down their enjoyment of it. From QoL, to improved visuals, mods add a lot to this game that developers have just decided no to do over this past decade. I think things like this are a big reason why the FFXIV streaming community isn't bigger, it seems like Square is actively against its community at times.
Xeno is correct. People bow to SE like they're gods. They're people like all of us. They make mistakes too, even though they may have good intentions. This is why the community has to hold them accountable. If you look at a person or a group of people as god(s), they'll build upon that. Then it gets to a point where trying to hold them accountable isn't even plausible.
Because the people have allowed SE to do whatever they want, because they believe they know all. A lot of ff14 players see yoshi-p as a god, and by association, SE. They're the only game I can think of that doesn't openly allow UI mods. They've had years to fix their UI, and yet they don't. Everyone talks about how toxic wow community is, but the ff14 community isn't much better. They're just not mean, but they're sure as hell elitists.
@@Banana_Cognac You've got it backwards. SE allows people to play their game. You pay your licensing fee, follow the terms of service, and you're allowed to continue playing. Just because other games run by other companies have allowed UI mods, that doesn't entitle anyone to do it in this game. It's remarkable to me that players feel so entitled that they should be able to do whatever they deem should be allowed, rather than follow the rules set in place. The rules that they acknowledged when they signed up for the game. (I'm not even against UI mods, I'm just against everyone acting entitled, like they should have the right to ignore their contracts)
@@RockR277 and it's remarkable to me that people play a game that has serious need of updating in certain areas, and they just roll with it. Instead of demanding more of a game they pay monthly for. And on top of that, yoshi and the devs have essentially eluded to mods being ok, so long as you don't get caught. Lol. What a way to dance around the issue. They need to fix their UI. People have been asking for it for a long while now. But I guess the ff14 fanboys and girls will just follow along no matter what.
@@RockR277 and I get what you're saying. I'm not saying people who get caught breaking ToS shouldn't get in trouble. I'm simply saying, they either need to fix their outdated/mediocre UI, or allow mods to do so. It's a simple fix. But instead they just tell you not to get caught. Such a weak answer on their part.
I use UI mods and a few QOL plugins but nothing that would give me a really fair advantage… like I just like having a better UI. I’m never going to record or stream this game because of this shit. At least it was 11 days and not perma
Does anyone know if and for how long did the guys that cheated on DSR got banned for? Xeno's argument is that it's likely for the same amount of time but do we know that for sure?
Xeno said he didn’t know if the cheater got a ban at all. I’d really like to know because the dude got banned on twitch so they may have intentionally gotten their account banned and started new accounts to cover their tracks.
You really can't compare Harus 11 days ban to the Ultimate ban, as all we can do is assume the duration of the Ultimate guy ban. He may have gotten perma-banned for all we know. Also that red circle... if it truly shows who targets you, it's really an advantage. Haru even admits his mistake quite clearly there.
If it's the mod I'm thinking of, it only shows players (or in this case a GM) that target you, and I don't believe it functions in PvP. It's mainly used by the RP community. Say someone is looking at you and sent you a tell, and you just cannot manage to find this person.. The mod allows you to easily spot them and target them back.
It's a bit ridiculous. But they also can't verify what other mods he's using, could possibly be using the same mod as the guy who used the mod for raids. So it is over the top since only the UI mod was reported, but they can't show leniency to one and not the other. I agree that some mods should be put on a white list since a basic UI mod really isn't a big deal
The problem is that Third-Party-Software, whether UI or else, could lead to a whole in a programm code that's why it is forbidden to use such software.
No... No not right... And the code is already open and can be exploited in a million different ways by anyone with basic programming knowledge... The only problem SE has with TPS is that streamers using it encourages others to use it, and they have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in their game that prevents programmers from exploiting the fuck out of the game, so if it becomes widespread, then they are opening the floodgates to hackers and cheaters of all types. Thus... If you do use anything, you're expected to not publicize it... Period... This means they don't have to put adware on our computers to monitor us, and no one is any the wiser (Minus the literal hundreds of obvious bots flying around collecting stuff all over the open world who are CLEARLY not managed by players since many of them are online 24/7).
The problem that I have is that I have sent tickets to the GMs about player harassment, about how a player has been bypassing bans and suspensions by creating multiple accounts and overall being a-hole in game. This person had VODs on both Twitch and UA-cam showing off his harassment as he multi-boxed on his ~5 characters; that paired with VODs from the other people being harassed would be ample evidence to get all of his accounts banned. However, and this is verbatim from the GM that answered my ticket, according to the GMs "We do NOT look at Twitch and/or UA-cam VODs as part of our investigations into ToS violations" So my only response to SE is this: Pick a Lane. Either you review VODs, or you don't... you can't have it both ways.
I wouldnt mind if they were actually consistently enforcing this rule, but they're not. They do it when is convinient for them and when is not they turn a blind eye. The grey area doesnt exist out of mercy and kidness but out of practicality, it would be a pain in the ass to enforce it on all the community and it would create tons of backlash. Square Enix have sucessfully disguised lazy enforcement as merciful leeway.
@@qlcrane8019 are you gonna look me into the eye and tell me that NO ONE on SQ team 3 knows that preach has streamed with chat bubbles? Is harmless fun? yes but hey the rules are rules, i dont make them they do. But since Preach is poster child for the ex-wow player that found a new better game in FF XIV they let him keep his fun until they are force to do something. If you buy that they're just unware that this streamers are using mods until a vindictive little bitch reports them, fine but i dont. I dont buy it for a second that they dont know, they just turn a blind eye when its convinient for them.
I think the UI stuff is stupid but the fact that they have said something and you do it anyways is a disrespect and so they get banned. Untill they get the whole mod shite under control, all mods are off limits and that should be respected. Is the UI mod thing stupid? Yes but you need to understand that the BS cheating mod is also a UI modification.
If it is the mods that shows how to do mechanics before they happen, then yeah ban away, but if it makes something more cleaner then it shouldn't have matter. Also I think that if you are going to stream, then take it off before starting the stream. Now with the blatant cheating by using third-party mods, by certain players during the current ultimate raid, one should be more careful than that. Also it shows that people have no life if they clipped a certain piece of the stream, and directly reported it. What about people who has disabilities who uses certain mods to compensate for said disabilities? With how it is now, are random ass people going to report, and get people who has disabilities banned? This is one of those things that has that very gray area of should the mods be available or not. I also agree with you on the point that they prioitise UI mod usage over things that are more severe than modding that doesn't affect anyone else.
I think the only one that was really questionable imo was the cast bar mod to tell where you can slidecast but everything else is basically aesthetic lol.
did you know you can learn to slide cast with tools already in game? put an emote on your bar, the moment it lights up while casting a spell you can move, using that you can get a feel for your slide cast window and adjust from there.
@@danielbricker7928 Right but with that you can just watch your cast bar instead of an emote or rather than manually feeling it out. Idk, I feel like it skips the brainwork somewhere in the process, even if not by very much.
@@TheShadowfan9000 i mean you could always put a piece of paper on your monitor. Like i get what youre trying to say, it just doesnt work because its not a cheat or an advantage like you claim. and once you play the game enough you wont need anything because you will be able to feel the server tick
@@XenosysVex That's true. I guess I'm thinking about it from a factual perspective. Does it give an advantage? "yes" even if there's literally no reason to use it whatsoever vs something silly like chat bubbles or prettier skill icons or something. Then again, all of this wouldn't be an issue if they just addressed the grey area of mods and finalized it all. It's pretty dumb either way of it lol.
I know it's not the biggest offense, but seeing and hearing(I believe it makes a sound) when someone switches target to you in Crystalline Conflict could make you react better....
There needs to be a difference between a quality of life addon and cheating. A chatbubble is QOL while showing stuff that shouldn't be shown is cheating.
simplest thing would just build an API in the game and only allow mods to track certain things, easy and clear they can always modify it if they see something is too much for them.
That wont work, because SE cannot define this without offering an appeal process. The only solution here is not get rid of the toxicity that leads people to report it. This was done because it was forced by a idiot member of the community. You dont have to go far to look for examples. Check out other comments.
@@Luca-re3ve It's not easy to build an API for modding. Realistically, without a full engine rework, making any sort of modding API for FF14 would introduce way more problems than it would solve than the current policy. In addition, at present, any sort of modding API would just give cheaters *more* tools to cheat, not limit them in any fashion. People already make extremely cheaty mods without any sort of official API; giving them more tools is just a bad idea all around.
We got multiple bots on every NA world dropping thousands of high end resources every day, earning tens of millions (if not 100M+) per day, yet this is the issue they care about.
I once got put into mordial gaol.
I waited in there the entire day and once the mod came, I asked why I was in gaol.
Literally told me there was no reason and that I was placed there by accident.
I was freaking out because recently I was doing the nier raid and had pulled a tank buster in a group of people killing 2 and a half alliances.
based
Being able to change the color and alter UI actually makes it easier for people with disabilities to use, especially people who are color blind. Usually Yoshi P doesn't care, as long as you aren't cheating, and I am of the same opinion. But if someone snitched about the mod, they probably feel obligated to enforce a ban since it was reported to them directly. They rarely come after cosmetics, unless you are blatantly showing them off. I do think they need to alter the TOS so that it isn't an issue anymore.
Agreed. My wife made me a mod that makes my wind-up Dragonet the color of my dragonet character, and I love it to death. The idea that that's treated the same as FFXIV's version of DBS is an absolute shambles.
Yoshi P doesn't care, unless you are straight up cheating or flaming other players, or talking about it ingame.
I dont use UI mods, but this might actually work. Just claim that the already implemented color blind settings were not working and the UI mod helps. Then if they still ban you it's discrimination!
I'm colourblind and the colourblind modes in all games don't really help, if I could change the colours of specific aspects legitimately ingame without mods, that would make my life so much easier!
I know somebody who was harassed and stalked so bad in game and after reporting it like half a dozen times and never getting it resolved decided to use a mod that makes it so that if you ignore them they totally disappear forever into the Void. It's the only mod she uses and with the fact the SE still has done nothing to help people with this issue I don't blame her.
The ban is dumb but the dude should have known better especially with recent incidents. Asking him to delete his whole channel vods tho, while it's sad, it's also expected when this kind of ban happens. This is, like many said, only a streamer issue. Don't stream/broadcast yourself breaking the ToS and whine when they do something about it. The person who reported it tho gotta be a very pathetic individual to go through the whole shitty reporting system and be "yeah, this is worth my time". People are still gonna use mods, this literally does nothing.
I do agree that this guy should of had a mild ban. But you can't come and tell me that you didn't know that this was gonna happen?
We all know how SE handles stuff like this, you KNOW that you're gonna get banned / possibly gonna get banned. While knowing this, you still do it. It's your own fault. However I do agree on that the UI mods we're talking about should be in the game already.
Fully agree on all fronts. Wanting your hud and stuff prettier's nice and all, but for love of god wait for SQEX to impliment the changes! There's no benefit to jumping off the cliff into a ban!
As someone who has come from wow, im not used to people thinking addons are bad. It was very shocking to find out how report happy people are for "cheating" when all you do is make a cute lil chat bubble.
Most people don't care, its a minority in the community who are batshit and just like to report people for fun and to mess with them.
Welcome to the absolute zealots that this community has.
To be fair, if you give the viewers a chance to get a streamer banned, they will go out of their way to try. Just the way of things.
@@Incensement couldnt agree more man
just remember though, ffxiv community is nowhere near as toxic as WoWs or any other games community, it's the bestest gaming community in the whole wide worlded!
/s
I've played ff for about a year now and since I've been playing on a ps4 I never thought about the UI. I never knew it was this crazy.
Same until the last year. At least we can have AlexanderXIV if your ping is really high
yeah I've played since BEFORE ARR and ive never thought to mod the UI. its already simple as shit.
Actually Yoshi P has implied he doesn't care if people use ui/visual mods. He can't outright say its okay because of SE Terms but he is the game director and he does not care. Yoshi cannot control the companies ToS for FF14 unfortunately.
so ACT is ok?
@Siberian No, Yoshida has essentially said that he doesn't care just don't harass people, or use stuff that's explicitly cheating.
Yoshi has implied its ok to use act and ui mods, but to not be toxic and don't get caught streaming with your mods active. Because then you're giving them evidence against you. It's stupid, but until SE changes their ToS, it will continue to be this way. I use ACT and UI mods to better my play and make things better for my visual liking. Nothing about them inherently make me a better player. But there are crybabies out there who will rat you out in a heartbeat
@Siberian Yoshi does not care what you do on your own PC. Yoshi has no way of knowing what you are doing on your own PC. Yoshi does not package spyware with his game to find out what you are doing on your own PC. The only way he knows what your are doing on your PC is if your PC sends data to his servers, or you stream yourself breaking the TOS like a moron.
SE: "Hey, for the 900th time we still don't allow any mods whatsoever and will ban you for using them but we can't tell that you're using mods as long as you don't make it public. Wink wink."
Literally Any Streamer That Gets Banned: "Okay, but how about I stream myself playing while using mods which aren't allowed to a large amount of people anyway? Surely I'll be fine."
Like, don't use them on stream and nothing will happen. You're filming yourself doing something that SE has explicitly said many times is bannable, it doesn't matter if it's a mod that changes a pixel of the letter A to look more like you prefer it'll get you banned if SE knows you're using it. Yes, that wouldn't give you any sort of advantage or disadvantage but a mod is a mod and SE have been very clear time and again that any and all mods will get you banned if they know you're using them regardless of what mod they are. People need to stop being dumb and just use them when they're not streaming.
I think Xeno's problem with this line of thinking is that Square's actions are incongruent with their words when it comes to this matter. They can say they don't allow mods all they want but the fact of the matter is streamers still get away with streaming with mods all the time with no repercussions. Especially when considering how long Xeno has been streaming with mods or 3rd party tools without being banned for it, I think it's very understandable why he would take such umbrage with the way square has handled it.
Now I'm not even saying I disagree with you, but I think you can cut some of these streamers some slack. If you had mods you really wanted to use and you knew that hundreds of streamers stream with mods everyday with no problem, and the amount of time you play FFXIV without streaming it was really small, don't you think it would at least be really tempting to try using the mods on stream?
But why take the risk? If you know it's something that could happen one day why steam with them on? Just because one person does it and doesn't get banned just means that they have never been reported for it.
@@tnabrams64 No. The very few times I stream I turn them off and I'm a complete nobody with maybe one or two viewers at most and both of them are people I know. All it takes is a single report and you're gonna have a nice GM chat and vacation from 14 if you're dumb enough to stream with mods, and I would only have myself to blame if I got reported for streaming with any mod. Just because they've been lax when people aren't being reported doesn't mean the rules changed. There is no slack to be cut, and it should have been especially clear with how much SE has been cracking down on mods.
@@thatrandom_canadian Like I said, I don't necessarily disagree with you, I'm just asking you to put yourself in their shoes. Since you appealed to how little you stream, I'll emphasize that the point is to pretend we're one of these big streamers to determine if we can offer them any charity. It's not exactly as easy as just streaming less (however I will grant that some streamers, such as Pint, actually don't stream that often in the grand scheme of things.)
@@averyoya4683 It's easy to say that if you're not a streamer. I would liken it to speeding. When it's something you do frequently, it conveniences you, and you see people do it all the time with no repercussions, I don't think it's unreasonable to be tempted to do it. Again, I'm not even siding with the streamers per se. I just think calling all of them dumb is a little unreasonable.
I think, at the end of the day it has nothing to do with severity, what the mod does, or other rules and punishments that they enforce, it is about high profile players actively flaunting ToS so as a result they HAVE to ban them otherwise the wider community will believe that mods are okay.
Yeah if you create an exception to the rule where does that exception end ?
My thoughts on this is that they don't think that "All Mods are Bad" but it is easier to have a blanket ban on all Mods than to try and write rules that clearly differentiate between the ones they think are ok and the ones they don't like. So many modders would try and twist and bend the rules to the point of them needing so many clarifications they become confusing. Easiest thing to do is ban all instead of police what ones are and aren't ok.
Exactly what I think too.
They should have just supported UI mods from the beginning and developed their own API so they have some amount of control over what people can do within the rules. They don't need to worry about defining rules in writing if they can just disable access to certain functions for mods. Like, this isn't an issue at all in something like WoW or ESO or other games with built in UI modding support. When people do something that they think is too much they just break whatever function people were using to enable the mod.
Having the foresight for this kind of stuff seems like it would have saved so much headache for both SE and the players.
They have said the UI mods that are often used, they're going to try to incorporate into the system. The blanket ban is as you said, it's easier but I believe it's aimed toward the mods that help you cheat through raid content and create toxic behavior.
@@ArborusVitae That's something that they very distinctly said they don't want to do, along with any form of automatic oversight like PC local anti-cheat. This conversation has been had; they're not going to design their cross-platform mmo (ESO is multi, not cross) in a way that gives any of the platforms an edge over another, and that includes the ability to modify the game. no, it doesn't necessarily give a gameplay advantage, but they're not going to give pc players tools to devise their own mods and tell Playstation users to go screw themselves while playing with those that have an inherently superior experience.
it's not a technical foresight issue, it's a community curation one. PC players need to understand that unlike ESO and WoW, FF14 does not entitle players to modify the game. And while SE would rather leave the modding community be, it's a privilege to be done at their own risk. And unlike WoW, they're not so keen on letting the community design their game for them, to the point where raids are being designed around the addons as opposed to the players.
@@ArborusVitae It actually *IS* a pretty big issue for games like WoW and ESO, that have a modding API. Notably, WoW has had to made modifications to their API after many expansions/major patches because people figure out how to make mods that go against what the devs want to be possible.
Making a modding API is not as simple as giving people access to certain features. People will *always* find ways that those given features are linked to other features that aren't supposed to be used, and they will exploit those links. No matter how good of a QA team a development company has, it is never going to be a match for the tens/hundreds of thousands, or even millions of players the game could potentially have.
Along the same vein, it's not always just a simple thing to break a specific part of an API, and have everything else be perfect and have no issues. Even simple changes in a piece of software that have millions of lines of code could introduce unintended bugs. In the case of a modding API, making a change has to make sure that other functionality remains the same, while also not introducing other parts of the system that can be access. And, again, people are still *always* going to find a way to exploit the API, even after changes are made.
For FF14 specifically, the entire game engine has always been based on the horribly broken 1.0 engine. It was also built to be played on both PC and PlayStation - two vastly different architectures. Making a modding API that would support both would already be difficult enough, and when you add in all the spaghetti code that 1.0 had, it makes it exponentially worse. Having modding available only on PC for an MMO game would make things extremely unbalanced between the two platforms, so it's not really something that would be very viable.
Quite honestly, streamers just need to stop being dumb when they stream the game, simple as that. If you stream the game using mods of any kind, you're just asking for a ban. Their rules are extremely simple to follow, people just want to complain when they get caught doing something against the rules.
GShade is explicitly permitted as it doesn't tamper with in-game files.
That being said, SE likely won't change their stance whilst console is still supported. The whole point of 'no mods' in the ToS is to prevent scenarios where console players are discriminated against in-game, especially in high-end raiding. The devs watch World First streams, they know all the top players use ACT, and it's not something they care about. However, preserving the 'appearance' of equality between console and PC is a major part of the whole mess surrounding 'third-party' software.
Not explaining the actual reasoning behind these policies, as well as leaning heavily on 'the ToS' as an excuse to avoid explaining these reasonings, is where the devs keep failing.
Actually this is explicitly false. GShade and ReShade both actually alter the rendering methods of the game client and alter how it presents information. It goes in your FF14 Folder for a reason, because it's an injector.
Should be bannable? Of course not. But it's actually more intrusive than 99% of all third party mods out there.
I think that SE only bans when are people reporting
this
That's most def it
I think its generally pretty ridiculous to punish people so harshly for UI mods, but I'm also not super sympathetic when streamers get reprimanded for this. They know the rules and choose to break them on camera. Sure its stupid, sure these options _should_ be in the game, but they're still breaking the rules that they agreed to follow. Although, this does seem like a little much. Hopefully all of the reasonable things people currently mod into their UIs become official options someday soon.
Edit:
Apparently, as many people have mentioned, the length of the punishment is actually protocol. 1 offense being 3 days, 2 being a week and a half, and 3 being perma ban (I believe). Since Haru has had a suspension before, he's on the second level. Meaning: according to the FFXIV ToS, they're just following the policy and not treating him any harsher than anyone else. Turns out this is just how the strikes work. Idk if it's changed since Xeno's suspension, but I'm kinda surprised he didn't know about that given his history.
Tbh its not the mods themselfs that are bad, but the insane amount of publicity they have gotten up until the ERP party desaster.
They never wanted to hardcore crack down on wholesome mods, they never did, but after it got brought so hard into the public eye AND it hurt Square Enixes reputation they are going ballistic.
Dont be angry at the devs or moderators or even those that report them, be angry at those people that just went WAY too fucking far with their mods. They fucked it up for everyone.
+ Game is still amazing without mods, I never modded and I still cleared savage and still have fun at Parties.
Nah its fine to be angry at loosers that report people. Mods just do their job, can't blame them
Mods got insane publicity? What are you smoking? The incident got mild publicity from one official news site, then got reposted multiple times by a bunch of content mill sites. If anything, the articles on these sites are all about the incessant crying happening on r/ffxiv.
Look, the general public doesn't give a shit. All they see is a billboard with some anime characters. They're not going to think mods or ERP, because how would they even know? It's not like they play the game and know its references. It's people like you crying about ERP and mods, that made it an issue about ERP and mods.
Only the mentally ill segment of this community thinks it's a big deal. They're the ones going on and on about mods, ERP, and copyright. Oh no! Children play this game too you know! SE is definitely gonna sue their ass! Yeah? When are they going to court? This incident has no bearing on anything, it means nothing.
@@lootmaster1337 Sounds like an ERPing WHM Miqo'te talking.
Doesn't matter why they report, if they use mods they break the rules, thats it.
@brosephstinson1297 you are a loser. Reporting people in video games is like taddaling to the teacher. Only losers with no friends do it
There is a line... I come from wow high end raiding and think the raid alerts/cactbot/rotation automation is an issue and should be handled. However the majority of the community seems to agree with qol mods being allowed. I don't wanna squint to see dot timers. however as it stands right now some of the community have taken it upon themselves to report anything and everything.
Its worth noting however that taking such hardline stances towards ur community even on third party platforms like twitch is a big reason why so many people dont stream ff xiv
It is sadly a calculation Square decided to make. I think Yoshi P did allude to other games allowing modifications or even giving modders the keys so to say and stated it causes some problems (what these problems are he didn't say).
I like the QoL mods or mods that can help with accessibility and shouldn't be lumped with the DSR cheat mods or things like Parsley Park (a bot that automatically changed Waymarks mid-battle until they got rid of that ability to change waymarks mid-fight). But unfortunately until the legal side of Square updates the ToS, we are going to have the blanket ban.
Fortunately, Yoshi P and his team are investigating into more QoL changes (likely augmented by researching forums or looking at the most popular QoL mods) and are working to implement them in future patches. 6.1 came with many QoL changes, though minor and I hope they continue this trend.
It's a catch 22 really. I get the community myself included don't want to have 600 pages of addons to boot up with the game everytime we click play that basically beats the fight for you.
And at the same time i also just wanna be allowed to run the game with a Gshade on. If anything due to me playing the game on max eye candy it makes shit harder cuz i can't see a damn thing at times.
@@SuddenFool gshade/reshade has been brought up multiple times and last I heard it was fine since it's just like applying a filter to your whole screen. Of course, that was prior to all this BS so who knows anymore.
There is no way to "handle" one without the other. They either allow mods or they don't.
UNLESS, what you are saying is only streamers who cheat using alerts/cactobot/rotation automation should get banned... EMPHASIS on STREAMERS... And you're totally cool with non-streamers using any cheats, any mods, and whatever the hell they want so long as they don't flaunt it.
Otherwise, you and everyone else need to understand that what they are asking for is a wholesale anti-cheat which will eliminate ALL mods, not just some, because they can't possibly keep up with a whitelist for it, and thus, its all or nothing. They also just won't do it.
The theory seems sound to me. Basically, the way they do it is straight forward, any public display of ANY third party addon and ANY report by ANY party for ANY addon = ban. Period. no questions asked, severity is irrelevant, doesn't matter if its a cheat, UI, bigger boobs, or just making some boxes a bit bigger or some minor stupid stuff, any and all third party publicly displayed is bannable.
If you don't want SE downloading the equivalent of adware and rootkits on your system (What most game anti-cheats are), then that's your only option. Most people are ignorant, and talking out their ass on this issue, and want some unicorn happy rainbow butterfly pie in the sky magical solution appealing to exactly their wishes with no compromises... IE... The community is stupid as shit and doesn't know what they are talking about. But it's cool, we aren't all programmers.
They don't really have a choice in the matter. UI Mods for example, can be great pieces of info like seeing certain timers of party friendly buffs, but they can also be abused to see opponents "Guard" cd remaining in PVP, which is information not natively visible. SE can't seperate these with a singular approval of 1 over the other. Mods are all accessing the same files. So outside of someone just not saying anything and outting themselves, you approve 1, you approve all, good and bad.
SE literally can't do anything to win here. The safest answer was the one Yoshi P stated, which is building the most popular mods into the client. However while that does and will work to some extent, it will ALWAYS be behind the customizeable options of the modding community which will constantly push the barrier anyway.
The answer isn't really to embrace modding openly. The safest thing they can probably do, is get a primary task force involved and have an open entry submission platform for mods that can be reviewed by the team. The turnaround time for this being perhaps every 2 months or so to allow for QA testing, but the idea in that timeframe would be to review a portion of the popular submissions and implement them into the client assuming they are not gamebreaking with the current flow of things. Then once they get a foothold on the mainstream items, build some sort of file protection into the client to prevent access to it from unverified sources.
Outside of something like that, the current stance is the best stance unironically. It gives them freedom to go heavy handed when needed and it gives people the power to play the game as comfortable as wanted while also keeping the ToS ambiguous enough to discourage people from publicizing mods. Any other stance will literally harm everyone involved in some way.
Think my favorite part of this is that I know folks who've suffered severe harassment. They spent weeks reporting their attackers, but because the attackers were making tons of alts to accomplish it, nothing happened.
But heaven forbid you make your cluttered af UI a little easier to look at.
I do not think he got the ban because of Square's ego as Xeno said, I think he got the ban because he is a well known XIV streamer and he was openly streaming using mods. Streaming and using mods is asking for trouble its like you are giving a finger to square on top of doing something against the tos. Regardless of how innocent or hideously cheating each mod is they are all against the tos and when their attention is drawn to an example like this they have to react to it else it will just make more and more players think using mods is okay, something square obviously does not want to happen.
people go "mods = bad" and group them all together, instead of asking "is this not just a reskin for the UI?"
Yeah, one guy has a mod that shows the literal mechanics of the raid, and one guy just has a prettier UI. While the rules are the rules.
The severity of how SE enforces its mod rules, should differ based on the mod.
@@qlcrane8019 then change the TOS. Like this is the problem FFXIV has and the reason why I believe eventually it will become just as shit as WoW. Because it suffers from the same WoW suffered back in the day. The community is full of yes men who will defend anything the company does even if it fucks over the players because there's this idea of Yoshi-P is a god and can't do no wrong. If these mods don't affect other people's experience, don't make the game easier and can't bring legal problems to SE and they actually make people's experience better, there is no reason to ban them.
Or an even easier idea, and which is something every company who gives two fucks about their players' experience does, you ban all mods to be as general as possible, just in case, but then you just ban the people that use mods who are bad from the game and you ignore everyone else. And if you weren't too busy smelling Yoshi-P's asshole, you would realise that
@@BS-se4yg What exactly is the difference between what you said in your last paragraph and what Square can do in a reasonable context? Like, what's the point of banning all mods if they only enforce that ban for specific mods? People already complain about 'inconsistency in enforcement' but they don't have any way of detecting most mods, so all they can rely on is reports from other players that they can reasonably investigate.
@Anonymous Turkey You aren't the company either. You're also no one's mom. If people want to complain that the TOS is stupid, it's within their right as customers of the game.
@@qlcrane8019 Other games manage to allow UI mods and other harmless cosmetic mods without the community going on some unholy purist crusade. This includes games that are *gasp* not named WoW. And considering that the FFXIV community recently caught their ass on fire for harassing people for the billboard which turned out to be a perfectly fine in game event, maybe it's time the community chilled out a bit. I personally also blame the developers for creating this weird witchunting community over harmless shit players do to make their play experience better.
I mean, yes, those are the kinds of mods that should be ok but for 10 years, they've been saying "Just don't show us" and content creators stay out here with mods in full display, that's on you at that point, especially since there have been so many incidenta with crazy cheating and bots now so you're begging to be made an example of. Don't break TOS on stream, why is it so hard? Lol
Shit rules are shit rules.
@@RaccoonBrigade But shit rules are still rules. Most people think weed should be legal everywhere but if you live in a state where it isn't, are you going to smoke weed live on stream and act surprised when you get arrested? No, same here, these streamers keep getting in trouble because they are showing the whole internet when they break TOS so Square has to do something when they get reported even if it's something they don't actually want or care to punish.
@Siberian This is a lie. They have always enforced their ToS provided they have the evidence. Streamers have always gotten banned routinely for mod use. The difference now is, it's far more common due to mass reporting and there's a big ass Sauron eye (SE) on the lookout because of the PVP mod abuse.
Let me take it to the extreme. If there was a law that said you are obligated to bend over and take it while everything is taken from you. Will you still be on the side of rules are rules? Too extreme? Funny cause that's the reality we live in, increasingly day by day.
@@per-terjenoreng3947 Lol this is no where near the same. This is in the TOS, if you don't agree, you don't have to play, if you agree to the TOS then you can't be mad if you get in trouble for breaking it, especially when they've been saying for almost a decade, they don't actually care what you do on your own personal computer, but if you show it and promote it, then you will get in trouble. It's no where near close to your example. It's literally like the cops saying to your face, we don't care if you do drugs, just don't put us in a position where we're forced to act by being an idiot and recording yourself live smoking crack.
The Dev team has said before that for them to curate and pick through every mod/plugin and give a list of this is okay, and this is not okay just isn't practical for them. So it's easier to just put a blanket ban on everything.
Which in my opinion is fine. They have never been super aggressive at banning people for modding/plugins as long as people are smart about it, been playing with mods since heavenward and never once been banned, simply because I A: Don't talk about it in game, B: Don't talk about it on social media or any official Final Fantasy media with my user name/character name visible and C: Don't post screenshot's or content showing mods with any FF14 branding, hashtags or anything else. As long as people in the modding community followed those simple unwritten rules, they left you alone. For once I am going to say the problem isn't on Square's side, the problem is on the community side with the influx of players come's and influx of people who couldn't give a shit about Square's TOS & about the community that had already been built.
I also understand why Square is cracking down on streamers showing this stuff, because end of the day it could cause trouble for them in a myriad of ways. While I fully agree not all mods/plugins are equal many are harmless, cool & helpful, many improve the quality of life in game but end of the day if you're a streamer/content creator the onus is on them. We all know the TOS, if you're going to knowingly break it and show it to the world take your lumps when you get caught out.
This is the truest true.
Xeno and others are getting emotionally charged about the wrong things. Im not privy to Haru's suspension/warning history but I know it goes up in increments. Warning, 3 day suspension, 10 day, perma. With some Decay on account penalty points after 3 to 4 YEARS after the latest offense. I think Haru has gotten a suspension before, and thats why they are getting a 10 day ban for this. The GM's just add up penalty points to determine the length.
The other guy cheating in DSR? We don't know if he was caught, or if he was suspended/banned. Doesn't really matter though, streamers are aware they shouldn't be using any mods of any kind while streaming the game. Its a blanket ban on all Plugins/mods because they aren't going to filter through them and give them stamps of approval/test them for security breaches. Its too resource intensive for the dev team, and console players can't use them in the first place.
@@slimfastsubaru2043 If I'm understanding how all this works (and I might not be), considering Japanese law on the matter, they actually _can't_ just say "this type of mod is ok, and this type isn't" because they would need to be specific for legal reasons.
@@slimfastsubaru2043 It sounds simple enough but end of the day Square isn't a scrappy little Indie Dev team with a single player game. They are a large corporate entity and with that comes a lot of red tape or procedures. Not to mention everything legally that comes with that comes with running a live service.
If they were making absolutely no effort to update their UI & just generally improve quality of life overall, then i'd say yeah fine.
They are however making that effort, granted it's a slow process but they are doing what they can when they can, and have at least acknowledged they do need to do it.
Between that, and their stance of we aren't going to do anything to do you, if you are not flaunting it. It's just daft Imo to do it publicly.
@@RockR277 TOS is not law. They literally can just say that.
@@slimfastsubaru2043 They *would* have to go through every single plugin to make sure it doesn't inject malicious code into the game. You might not think thats very important, but to a developer of a massive game, that is only multiplayer, that is extremely important. Some of the plugins people use are literal speedhacks to 'lower ping'. Like XIV Alexander.
Its too much to test them all, and again, console players do fine without them. If you were in their shoes (Employed, liable), you would blanket ban all plugins and mods as well.
I wonder if they will ever come out with a mod that will show an unmodded interface for the stream while you are actually using a shitload of mods on your own screen, that would be ideal for strummers; I imagine this is already possible for ACT since streaming programs can capture specific programs and ACT is just an overlay.
The issue is really between:
1) visual/graphic mods. G shade etc.
1) Quality of life mods for UI elements like cooldown numbers being bigger on an ability, ACT, etc.
3) game bending QOL mods like XIV Alexander, clippy, that address net code/server issues.
4) actual cheating mods like the mods we saw on the DSR ultimate cheating video.
The issue is that the first three address issues or features that should be addressed by SE to make the game better. The last one is the actual problem bc it erodes the integrity of the content.
But bc it’s degrees of gray it’s easier for them to lump it all together. But then they aren’t consistent with it either. So it’s a clusterfuck.
ACT can as easilly erode the integrity of the game.
The community would shift to exclusively caring about parses over anything else. And we know that because it happened in other games
They're already working on the first two, we know there is a graphical update in the works and they said they're looking into qol changes. They just don't want the mods advertised because it can put them in a shit spot regarding different region laws and it's a blanket rule.
Tbf, 3) should be implemented in the base game. Devs are so out of touch with non-jp player base.
@@pixielst I'm unfamiliar with 3, could you give me a little lesson on them?
I don't disagree with you for the most part, but in your opinion why would ACT be a quality of life feature? For me, I seem to think you dont necessarily need a damage counter or parses to know if your damage is good enough for a fight. I dont think people shouldn't have the freedom to use it of course, I just think I see too many negatives from it that can potentially impact the game for a few people. For example, harassment on not doing enough said damage. It spotlights the people who may be in the content for the first time- or even just having a bad day. As josh strife says, which I believe to be very true, you're not interacting with million or even thousands while playing an mmo in a day, but those handful of people you DO interact with can make or break that game for you.
From a pure analytical standpoint, not putting my opinion on it (which if you want my opinion I agree with xeno, especially on some of these things should already be in the game), this makes sense, no matter what Haru or anyone did, they BROKE the rules that they AGREED ON, when you agree and accept the TOS no if or but. SE have to show that they will act when the rule are broken, if not people will think "this is OK to do because this person is fine". Even if it's an innocent mod that like makes your hair like neon (and only you can see it) or something else dumb to a literal 1shot boss mod
Of course this is separate from the topic of how much time/severity of punishment it should be
Side note: They ALSO broke the verbal promise with YoshiP of if you actually do use mods, don't show it publicly, like what do you expect would happen if you stream with it????
NOT SAYING THAT SQUARE ENIX IS PERFECT BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL FAR FROM IT, but like use your brain on what the consequences of these things are
Full agreement. Doesn't matter how we feel about how SE and FFXIV and how they handle mods. Doesn't matter if we think it's silly and they should let us use them (to a degree). All that matters is that they are CURRENTLY not allowed and we all hit the "yes" when the TOS popped up at the launch of our game.
"if not people will think "this is OK to do because this person is fine""
maybe if they didnt turned a blind eye when flow of wow refugees and streamers were swarming FF XIV with their modified UIs, people woldnt think that way. I would agree with this in theory if they werent so inconsistent about it, last year they turned a blind eye to some streamers having mods because there was river of free publicity comming into FF XIV. Now that they river has dried and cheaters are embolden they can pretend that they give a fuck a bout "the rules".
Square Enix actual stance on mods is "we want to do whatever the fuck we want, whenever we feel like it"
i just dont like when someone has the power to enforce something but is not beholden to consistently enforce it (or at least try). Its all the power but none of the responsability.
Because lets be real the grey area doesnt exist because of the mercy and kindness of Yoshi P but because it would be a pain in the ass to heavely enforce it to everyone and would cause a significant blacklash from their communities that love mods that enchance the experience without going into cheating.
@@BioMatic2 wow they turned a blind eye to something when it made them a lot of money? Like every single person and corporation ever? Those darn hypocrites. Can’t really complain about that considering the capitalist hellhole we live in.
Researching the top used mods and creating a whitelist is a couple hours work on Google. But the community doesn't care about streamers, it's less than 1% of the player base impacted, cause you can safely use all the mods if you don't talk/show. You will never be at risk for a ban.
"cause you can safely use all the mods if you don't talk/show."
But why?
Why is it even a risk?
You could argue that mods could effect PvP, but like as a modder for other games, it screws with my mind that these devs are stabbing their community with these types of BS.
Majority of the game is PvE, and the UI only effects Local and not others, then why the hell are they so strict about this shit?
Majority of it should already be in game and the have had all the time in the world to add them, and havent.
Hell just hire the modders to do it, add it.
LIke why bite the hand that feeds?Oh shit, im thinking logically again, i forget i cant do that in the gaming industry.
It makes no dam sense, especially given what the community did for them for a realm reborn.
Like they can not be this dense?
@@Dr-Frost345 I agree mostly. One aspect is the achievement, people do savage, ultimate also for the accolades and status. It diminishes the achievement if 90% of the people would start doing it with mods. Additionally if square is to increase difficulty to take into account mods, would require the fights to be so difficult to be impossible without mods. That's only for these kind of cheat mods, all others are fine regardless.
@@zazethe6553 described the WoW conundrum nicely there, an arms race between the hardest version of X and mods.
@@zephyros256 its not, and it shows that you have no clue how wow addons work
GM banning streamers to set up examples but reality is people who use mods gonna keep using mods, the game has no QoL
The QoL of this game actually used to be lot worse than this, they add QoL feature one by one, and i believe they will keep adding it
What are you saying? This game has plenty of QoL. You don't realize it because it's just so convenient you don't think about it anymore, but there's a LOT of things that needed QoL updates when 2.0 launched, slowly being added by the devs using the 3rd party tools and the forum as ideas for what exactly to implement(YoshiP said it himself in a media tour btw) . It's like the difference between having a car vs not owning one.
Ikr, even to simple things like buff durations not showing on party list, so dumb
@@TorManiak you what you say , where do you see qol in this game huh ? About the UI in 9 years they have done absolutely nothing
They might add in some sort of QoL feature to know if you are targeted by another player then.
For instance a small box on the side like when Tanks pulls groups, instead of Green/Yellow/Red symbols it can be separated and a 'Blue' symbol with a name can be used to show a player is highlighting you?
Though, in a sense it might make things a bit awkward when you see the names of 20-30 people clicking you and highlighting you to emote you.
I think the part about it being on video is that it advertises it. Which gets more people interested in looking for Add ons, which goes down a rabbit hole.. and while most people think add ons like that are no big deal (and I semi agree) you gotta also remember that 60%+ can’t even get add ons on their consoles.
The stuff just starts spiraling and getting out of control and that’s where you get dumb stuff like pc only parties, or codes for what addons they expect you to have etc..
I think until they can control it, they will be more open to it
The other thing is streamers may be showing the game a certain way with the mods, and people considering playing it may be disappointed and vocalize their displeasure that the game wasn't what they expected because they watched X streamer playing it with mods. It's a slippery slope of potential bad publicity SE wants to avoid because although it's not false advertising...it can be construed as such.
@@ragingcyclone369 totally agree and while this may be a super small population 1. It’s still resources and time SE has to waste dealing with dissatisfied customers or low user reviews and 2. It’s probably so small to begin with cause they have some of these measures.
End of the day I think they probably banned too hard for a UI mod, but otherwise I understand why they probably do it
It took me half the video before I realized they were talking about buff timers... SOMETHING THEY ADDED BECAUSE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN BASE GAME TO BEGIN WITH!!!
I hope they gave him half a year of free playtime for their incompetence
i feel like they ban these kinds of mods because it opens the door to all other mods. just look at what happened to wow and some other games with mods. first it started slow and harmless with mods that give no benefits to the players and over the years it developed in the situation that wow is in now where you have to use these mods or u are not getting invited to raids . so back to final fantasy, i think it is too hard for square enix to allow quality of life mods and then controll and make sure that people stick to these mods and dont use cheating mods. tldr: banning all mods is easier than allowing some and banning the cheating mods
Tbh i think its bs that ppl get banned for ui mods. With that being said though, its also kind of dumb to stream yourself using them. square were pretty clear about this very recently in an updated tos. I have no sympathy for that guy at all, he knew the risks of using mods and now he pays for it simples.
I think overall though, its the fact the guy was streaming himself using the mods that pushes square to ban in the first place. They are trying to steer people away from using mods, then u got some guy broadcasting himself using them. If they did not make an example out of this guy, people start to think "oh if he can get away with it on stream, then I can get away with it as well". Then before they know it, everyone is using mods because they think they will get away with it. I know it does seem like a very petty thing to do banning someone for a ui mod, but they kind of have to do it or everyones jus gonna start using mods again and then the whole grey area scenario will be a thing again.
I feel like if this guy had just used mods off-stream and turned them off while streaming he never would have received a ban since at least he's keeping it pretty private and under the radar and also maybe theres no way they can know if he is using them or not outside of streaming
eporting.
Tbh, I think the dev team should just make an ffxiv SDK for modders and have an upload\database kind of thing (similar to how bethesda does modding) and only allow mods they approve to be uploaded and stuff. They wouldn't have to do any of the work, just need some QA to make sure the mods are ok to use. Everyone is happy then surely, and we don't have to go through all this banning bs
Really great idea for a video quite honestly. I'm glad that you chose to make it. This video should be shared by the vast majority of the community as kind of a substantiated counterpoint of how the system for reports and action on the reports are actually being made.
I would think this sounds appropriate in most cases. Everything is left up to individual perspective unless they check it with their supposed supervisor or lead on checking the supposed reports on such a thing.
In a word... Just straight up helpful for recognizing how it should be changed.
(The only time somebody should actually really get banned for gameplay related things is if you are using modifications that give you a higher degree of telegraphing or informational things that enhance the likelihood that someone would survive artificially.
I wish I could say I was shocked. I saw the writing for this kinda thing on the wall when that stupid video about the ultimate raider came out. And while it sucks and its stupid that this happened to Haru, I can't really blame them. We were warned time and time again by Yoshi P, in those most disappointed dad way possible, and now people like that ultimate raider douchebag are gonna effectively destroy addons as a whole for everyone. I don't think anyone is safe, if you think its ok to you use chat bubbles, I don't think it is anymore. And Square needs to be really careful cause if they ban the wrong person. it could come back to really bite them. This whole thing is a mess because some people are just so criminally stupid about flaunting their disregard for the rules in the most flagrant way possible.
From a completely different perspective, all UI mods, including the incredibly cheater one, seem to be safe as long as you aren't streaming them. At least, I haven't heard of anyone complaining they were banned for addons they never told anyone about.
I agree with your main point, but there's a sizable difference between no one being safe and streamers not being safe.
@@fluffyfang4213 Exactly there needs to be evidence of you using said mods, so if you don't stream or post videos, you're fine. It is sad that streamers don't have a way to filter out the people who would put their stream and account in jeopardy like that. And with no way of finding out who reported them it will just keep happening.
I mean, I play on ps4 so no mods for me, and I don’t care enough to use mods even if I played on PC, so I really don’t have a hat in this race but I honestly think the “incompetence” argument is kind of flawed. For one it’s making an assumption on the reason for the enforcement of TOS, secondly, there are a large quantity of UI mods that alter a myriad of different things, are square expected to implement them all? Or just the “needed” ones? Who decides which ones are needed? The players who use it for hardcore raiding? The casual? Roleplayers? It’s not a simple fix, but that doesn’t mean there are no potential solutions. One perhaps might be to create something akin to Steam’s Workshop were upon users might be allowed to submit modifications for approval by square directly, and then downloaded through the launcher. Now this is not without its own issues, with an approved mods list, players would now be obligated to only use mods from said list or once again face punishment for violating TOS for unapproved modification. And this could cover a wide variety of things from not just UI, but graphical, audio, unspecified rp mods. And the list would go on and on.
That however leads to the second point, while modifying the pc version is “easy enough” making those same types of changes is not so easy for the console. So the new problem of how to allow console players this same level of modification comes around, as Square is very keen about ensuring that both pc and console have as close to a similar experience as feasibly possible, which is the actual reason for the “delete the videos” demand. It is not that they are trying to hide their flaws, especially given how open they usually are with taking what fault onto themselves they can. But instead it is far more likely that in the pursuit of not giving potentially new players the wrong idea of what the game looks and performs like, they thus insist evidence of modifications be deleted so as to again, present a uniform experience to players on both versions.
Ok so, not sure why this is coming up now a year later for me but may as well talk about this while we're here.
You're not wrong Xeno and I totally agree with you on a conceptual level, when it comes to user experience and mods that don't hurt anyone (in terms of user experience), but at the same time you're missing context which is relevant here.
This is a complex topic and there's a lot that has to be very specifically defined and laid out, because it's in these fuzzy understandings we all have of things that the whole engine of this issue exists.
So reddit level of a youtube comment breaking it down ahead.
So first off lets just say something out the gate, UI modification that provides QoL of improvement for a user, really should be something that is not only fine, but supported.
But what a lot of people tend to miss is using the term "Mods" doesn't really accurately describe what's going on here, and it is in this fuzz of discussion on the topic that a lot of misunderstandings happen.
So we have to break things down a bit here, mods fall into one of five categories.
Direct File Replacement, Plugin Injectors, Addons+Addon APIs and External Data Parsing, External Gamestate Data Modification.
What type of mod a mod is matters, and is the core aspect of this whole topic from a development perspective because they are fundamentally different even if a player may feel they're the same.
TexTools would be an exmaple of a Direct File Replacement.
Dalamud and GShade would be a Plugin Injector. (Dalamud being a generalised plugin injection platform, GShade being a complete pre-built solution)
We do not have any Addon/Addon APIs in XIV (We should!), but these would be like Addons in WoW.
ACT would an example of an External Data Parser.
CE would be an example of an External Gamestate Data Modification.
Direct File Replacement mods work by, as the name describes, directly replacing one or more assets in the game's directory, so the game loads a file created or modified by the user.
This typically is not code, and is more often textures, materials, 3D models, animations, sounds etc.
In XIV, this is done by modifying files contained inside DAT files, which are just giant archives of smaller files. The DAT is loaded as a package, with everything that is contained inside, at runtime and assets loaded and unloaded as required.
Essentially the entire cabinet is loaded and no distinction is made between the assets within it, the entire DAT being treated logisitically as an entity in of itself as far as loading is concerned.
This *typically* does not interact with the game at runtime, with the exception again, of files that have been modified to implement a plugin system.
Addons and Addon APIs work by developers creating an API endpoint which an addon can then query in standardised ways to retrieve and set information about the gamestate through intentionally exposed and defined functions.
Code in this case is not directly interacting with the game, but rather interacting with the API which then interacts with the game on the code's behalf.
Everything we think of when it comes to plugins, can be done by an Addon/Addon API, asuming the functions to allow for it are exposed to the API by the developer.
Then, we have external parsers like ACT which reads data about the gamestate either from memory or from network state, then use this to do things outside of the game.
So this would collate and process data from the game, and can be used to create overlays or information not otherwise normally available to the player via the UI, but *is* already available to the client.
Next up, we have External Gamestate Data Modification Tools, like CE.
These are tools that do not only read data from the gamestate, but also actively modify data held in memory to in turn modify the game state.
When you see mages teleporting around gridania, this is typically what you're seeing, (but it can also theoretically be plugins, but getting to that next).
So I wanted to leave the Plugin category for last, because it is the specifics of how this type of mod works that is the source for the whole current ongoing issue.
Plugin systems fall into two categories, bespoke and generalised, but at their core they work the same way.
Plugin systems come in two parts.
The first part being the "payload", the payload is the part of a plugin that contains code or assets that do what direcrtly affects the user experience. So examples of payloads would be the mods you download to use in Dalamud, or would be the shaders used in GShade.
Secondly, we have the "Injector", the injector being the part of the plugin system that loads the payload into the game's active memory and directly interfaces with the game on a code level.
It is critically important to understand this key detail of how a plugin works. The Payload and the Injector are two entirely different things and an injector is ambivilent to the contents of the payload it is being used to inject.
Payloads can be "safe" or "unsafe" or "harmful" or "Hurt no one", but an injector makes zero distinction here and is incapable of doing so. A payload is a payload.
Injectors work by using direct file replacement to replace one a file that contains functions from the game's code, usually this targets DLL files which contain 3rd party functions that are being used by the game (Things like Direct X implementations or propietry media encoding link libraries etc, most injectors target the implementation of Direct X by a game but there is no rule that says this needs to be the case, some also target physx libraries for example).
These files, and their associated functions are replaced with ones that when executed by the game at runtime, contain additional code that specifically loads the payload and passes it into memory and/or modifies the gamestate as if it was any other function of the game's codebase.
It is this *specific* aspect about injectors that make them the problem they are.
If an Addon API is a door and addons are things coming and going thorugh that door, then an Injector is a hammer that smashes a hole in the wall and expose the innards to payloads.
With bespoke plugin systems, this is less of a problem because the injector is loading a specific payload, and that payload can be evaluated from a game perspective on if it is "Okay" or not, such is the case with ReShade when SQuenix allowed its use in a ruling back in ARR.
With generalised systems, like dalamud, this changes, because the injector system is creating an unofficial endpoint for payloads to interact with, or it's entirely injecting these payloads into the game's executable at runtime.
For all intent and purposes, these plugins become the game's code, and inherit access to everything and anything about the game state, and from a security perspective, also inherit the related system privleges as a result.
While this hole exists, there is no way to make any distinction from a development and user perspective of any of the payloads that go in through this hole. When we're talking about injectors, especially generalised injection systems, there is no such thing as "safe" mods and "unsafe" mods, because the distinction is impossible and this cannot be seperated from the conversation.
This gets even more problematic when you consider that dalamud allows for loading and injection of REMOTE payloads from hosted repos online via URL!
It is an entirely possible, albiet kind of wild scenario, to wake up one day and suddenly your rotation helper is now farming crypto on your machine through FFXIV to put how far this problem can go into perspective.
With plugins, it is not possible to stop the "bad ones" and allow "the good ones", because the system is not interacting in a granular form with the game's code like you would see in an API that has loads of different endpoints for different low-level things an Addon can do, it is just a hole in the wall and everything and anything can be injected through it. It becomes entirely trust based. Which does not work in any game that has a multiplayer competitive scene, and even more so does not work in any game that fundamentally depends on the granular fine tuning of the integrity of the user experience and the assumption of a consistent one *where it matters*.
The problem with plugins is not and has never been people modifying their game to make it feel better, change UI, have little speech bubbles. The problem is and has always been that it is not possible on a fundamental conceptual level to do any kind of filtering or control or anything, to target specific types of plugins. It's like members of a party in a raid, you stand together or you wipe together. There is zero distinction that can be made.
But this is exactly why we should be asking for an Addon API, and why using the right terms matter. With an Addon API this problem does not exist, because nothing is being injected, there is one or multiple addon endpoints in the game's code that external addons can interact with and through it gain access to read and set game data within allowed allowed bounds and allowed data instances, and even allow for creation of new UI strata to add entirely new QoL UI elements. Exactly the same way a plugin does, the only difference being all of this is done interacting wiht developer maintained generalised endpoints, which can be created, destroyed, expanded and shrunk in scope as needed to allow for all the types mods we want as a player base, without any of the threat that comes with things like plugins to facilitate cheating.
That's why these terms matter, because when we say "mods", there is so much that comes under that word, that all work so differently, that we're just yelling into the void at each other until eventually SQuenix pull the nuclear option and limit everything, and they absolutley can do this, they just haven't. But if we recognise the problem with dalamud, is not the modified user experience it is used to create, but rather the problem is dalamud itself, then that allows us to bring things to a more fact informed basis where we as a community can ask for an Addon API, without emotionally charged defensiveness kicking in over defense of dalamud and unfit for purpose approaches to genuinely good things.
I want QoL improvements as much as any one else, I am 100% in support of addons and an addon API to facilitate this at a fast pace from the talented playerbase, but plugins just aint it chief and it's important if we're talking about these things, to actually know what it is we're talking about, because it's all too easy to end up defending something we think we want because we're confusing it with something else, as is often the case with Dalamud.
Wow that was actually so long that UA-cam forced me to cut it up into two parts LOL.
I know how hella cringe it is to write something that long about this, but the truth is that there is so much fine specific detail and terms here that directly change all this that really cause all the constant storm of discussion about this, so that care had to be taken to properly step through how these things work and what they are and what they aren't, so we can have useful conversations about these thigns that actually reflect our views rather than the constant noise of a community-wide misunderstanding of the topic, so we can start asking Square Enix for support for things like Addons that bring all of the benefits, with none of the downsides.
The fact of the matter is when you are streaming and shows mods of any kinds will deem it as advertisement. It doesn't matter what your intentions are. That's the nature of broadcasting to public. This means all that choose to be a public figure via broadcasting has an an extra layer of responsibility. And ultimately the opinions of yours and mine doesn't matter.
Being a streamer is like being a manager. For every person who successfully gets into a management position, you have many envious people who will try to find a way to remove you so they can take your place.
Odds are this report was done by a less or not at all successful streamer in hopes that his followers would find and follow them instead.
You must be a 12 year old who thinks managers earn their position.
@@femka I already know better than that, but neither do streamers. Being a successful streamer is mostly luck. For every successful streamer, there are hundreds more who are just as good or better who fail because they while they do everything right, it takes an incredible amount of luck to be at the right places at the right times to gain an audience that will stick around.
Naturally, bad streamers will crash and burn, but so will good streamers if they're not careful because, as I said before, there's a horde of people desperate to take your place who will bring you down if you give them the opportunity.
Multiple things here can be true all at once.
1) Yes it's stupid that ui mods that are "harmless" that are not assisting playing in any way are treated the same as game-breaking mods.
2) All mods are against TOS.
3) Breaking TOS can get you punished.
TL;DR: Don't stream with the mods. Like life, as long as you don't flaunt your rule-breaking no one will pay any attention to it.
But each rule break has a level of severety. You get a 3 day ban for slight harrassment (snowflakes ruined online gaming anyway, thats why most people dont talk anymore to each other) but you can get a 30day or a perma for shit like n-word and death threats for example. Putting an ui mod and a game breaking cheater mod on the same level makes people think "if i get banned anyway why not using cheat-mod to clear the ultimate?" If the punishment is the same you would want to get the most out of it if you go for it.
A lot of antis for Vtubers and such could start using old clips to get people banned now.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone manages to edit videos to fake something in to get someone banned too.
They already did with a player in jp. People nodded their game to look like the victim charecter and name and made fake clip about him. He actually got perma banned. When he literally did nothing
@@qlcrane8019 Yeah they do. This whole fiasco started with people reporting the person who uploaded the WF DSR clear and getting the red mage on their team banned. I am not sure how many dumb examples need to happen before people realize that this policy is stupid.
@@24hr-Gaming Oh fuck off the person literally knew they could've gotten banned amd did it anyway. This logic is exactly why they do blanket shit for mods now. 'Oh don't ban streamers for mods' 'My mod is ok but look at THIS mod'
You have to watch out for these Karens. They will do anything to get someone banned. No matter how old the clip is. They wake up for this shit.
Its weird to see square support sometimes saying they are not banning people with only VOD/video evidence but at the same time do it anyway.
For haru of course it was morr live but others...
I guarantee it's because of the DSR clips circulating getting people to go on reporting sprees again.
@Anonymous Turkey dude says it himself that he'd have to remove "all his clips and vods" from twitch because almost all of them contain the mods. they've likely been watching Haru for awhile.
@Anonymous Turkey the gm did say they received a report though . take that statement how you want.
Xeno, if you were up for it you should try and get this guy on and hear his side of things. Would be an interesting conversation to have.
If people actually cared so much about the mods and add-ons they should consistently use the tools available to voice their concerns to the devs. Instead of being outraged for a couple of days on youtube or twitter after something like this happens then go back to doing their normal stuff. They should be on the official forums blowing it up, in a civil way, expressing what they want in the game. Make it so they can't ignore the issue. Minor acts of defiance such as just using mods despite the risks then being surprised when there are consequences for breaking the clearly expressed rules doesn't do anything. If people put half as much effort into actually trying to solve a problem as they do complaining about it things would actually get done. And if in the end they don't do anything about it, then decide if those minor UI issues are too much for you to keep playing the game.
Square Enix will always take people to make examples for a short period of time, and not solve the problem at all, just exactly what happened with bots and RMT back in 2016, it is for sure, explicit in the ToS and everywhere related to XIV since ever, it is not new the use is strictly prohibited, and streaming with it only makes things worse, but like, if they care "that much", why not actually try to solve it and put some actual QoL in the game features, to try to minimize this, and """solve""" part of the problem instead of only make examples.
I know, work is hard, think is hard to separate actually harmless stuff that is just a re-skin, and take actions against real problems is hard, because the PvP bots still there, the farm bots still there, people using mods, still and will be there like all the other I've pointed.
couldnt agree more. i think 99% of UI mods are just to make things easier to see. its not like its telling you how to play or helping your gameplay. if people i play with use it idc id only care if their mod is having an actual impact on their performance. if your inventory looks different or certain numbers or spells are bigger on your screen then i really dont care. or at least it shouldnt be punished as hard as someone who cheats like the other dude you showed
It's in a rough spot, it's very dumb to ban someone over a color palate swap or a cooldown timer, but SE seems to be on edge and just cleaning house. Best course of action would probably be just to chill on mods till SE makes progress on adding them as official settings or it blows over. Granted either of those could take a hell of a long time, it's just a sticky situation right now.
That's what he get for playing with fire, you act like this is the first time SE has said to keep it hush hush if you're using mods. He knew the consequences and he didn't give a damn. I also agree with xeno that SE should update and maybe overhaul reporting as a whole.
its not ego nor it can not be done due spaghetti code but due spaghetti code it would take long time with large number of devs which would result in bigger content luls and thinner patches.
My recent memory brings examples as EW login prob (error 2002), housing lottery, Glam dresser400-800,...
Big parts of the game are outdated and need QoL, spaghetti code makes house of cards known as our beloved FFXIV which makes any changes with QoL take time if not breaking the whole system
My COPIUM- 7.0 new game engine if not then current upgraded, 8.0 new game engine&new game code which makes game more responsive
I sorta new to FFXIV and I think the biggest problem I've seen in regards to the Devs is that they remove (or in tis case ban) things and promise to make things better but instead they should just do that when they already have a replacement. Nobody would care if all mods were bannable if there was already good UI options but since there isnt people are against Square Enix on this since there are needed improvements that just arent in the game.
I don't think its incompetence, this goes back to the billboard discussion, its the image of the game. People are altering the game and streaming it that if people come to the game after watching someone stream with major UI mods, they aren't going to understand why their game looks different and why they don't have the things they saw the streamer have and it shows that people can just do whatever they want with the game files. I don't agree with this but I believe this to be the reason.
SE has a choice, put adware on its users computers like every other MMO company out there, or don't, but punish people who publicly breach TOS... This game is REALLY easy to mod, REALLY easy to hack, and anyone can absolutely hook into the game and change a ton of stuff or fully automate it (As evidence by the thousands of bots who gather 90% of the mats sold on the marketboard). The only reason it's not widespread known how vulnerable the game is comes from the fact that most players aren't programmers, and SE rightfully bans ANYONE who publicly shows any modifications... But rest assured we are all playing with at least a few people who use extensive cheats, they just happen to be discrete about it. The punishment targeting only streamers, influencers, and people who post shit publicly makes sense since they want to avoid adding an anticheat.
My guess is that it was a 10 day not because it was someone using UI mods, but because it was someone streaming with UI mods and potentially advertising them making it a worse problem.
If it wasnt a streamer it'd probably be 2 or 3 days.
A lot of people don't think about individuals who have medical issues such as vision impairments when it comes to addons. I've tried three times to main FF14, but as I've gotten older my already bad vision has only worsened. The little cooldown numbers / UI customization is no where near what I need it to be to be competitive. In WoW (when I still played) addons like Bartender and GTFO helped a ton when it comes to my vision. I could create clean bars, with large yellow text to make it possible to track my cooldowns and rotation, freeing up my focus on what is happening in the fight and allowing me to stay competitive. And of course, GTFO would scream at me if I was standing in something that is difficult to see (because blizz is so bad at making damage circles that are the same color as the floor).
Of course, there are addons that are straight up cheats, I'm not arguing that. All I want is for people to take into consideration that some addons only enhance the experiences of players due to conditions that they can not control. Lets face it, most if not ALL mmorpgs on the market have TERRIBLE UI configurations, customization, and make bad fight designs when it comes to being able to hear / see dangerous mechanics.
Good news. Don't let SE know you have them and nothing will happen. They have no way of knowing you're using any sort of UI mod unless you stream it or say so in game, so you're in the clear to use them as long as you're not dumb about using them.
What if, for a minute, it's about a guy who works as GM and has to deal with this report. Should he turn a blind eye and close the case with "solved" status and got punished if someone decided to check his work? i don't think so, why should he risk his, i dunno, career/stability/job to save some random guy from punishment. I mean sure, UI mods are harmless and i like how people react when someone get banned, but no one thinks about these guys who's doing their job. You've to deal with people who's hunting streamers for reports, if you don't want to be banned, i dunno, just don't use the mods/hide them until they update the UI, since they said that they will do that. Like i don't get it, TOS is against them but i'll use them and i'll be bitching about when i got banned and fuck this dude who's banned me why he didn't risked his income for me.
The blame was being directed at the stream snitches and the company itself not the GM .
No one is blaming the gm lmao. Thry did their job as it's meant to. The god awful tos and square having a stick up their ass is what's people get annoyed about.
i mean...he did it on stream. No matter who you are, there's always going to be atleast one person that just wants to see you fail and report you.
The day people like Papachin get hired onto the dev team will be the day a lot of people that mod become a ton happier with the game. Change my mind lol
Correction: With creative freedom
I get that not all mods are bad but if they say don’t talk about u using them , then you stream it that’s on you.
After Bagel and the DSR ban wave, people would have learned not to fall down the slippery slope, they aren't going to play this UI is okay and this isn't game.
Am i the only one that thinks the fluffy ears made Xeno sound like a high Kermit? LoL
Mods are against ToS. Using mods violates ToS. It doesn't matter which mods. Breaking ToS will get you a suspension. People complain about Blizzard not enforcing ToS and then they come to Final Fantasy and complain about Square-Enix enforcing ToS. Pick a lane.
Don't mistake, I don't see anything wrong with QoL mods, I'd actually like to use some of them, but I don't. Because they're against ToS. The rules are the rules.
While I don't agree that SE's stance on addons is born from an inflated ego, this entire don't-ask-don't-tell situation just reeks of neglect on their part. The worst part is that they've spent so long neglecting to enforce their own ToS that I don't think there's an easy way to definitively address this issue without pissing a lot of people off. Ideally SE should have jumped on top of this issue right from the beginning and implemented an official addon API of their own or put in an anticheat or *something* before these 3rd party tools matured and became popular, but they didn't.
But hey, it's free reaction content whenever someone gets banned. At least we have that.
I believe the reason they went with the don't-ask-don't-tell is that it makes modding things much safer for the vast majority of the player base, and they really don't actually care about UI mods and chat bubbles. They just can't keep up a constant list of allowed mods and bannable mods, so blanket banning everything is a smart decision for them because you just can't realistically keep track of every mod, all it's features, and create a constantly updating list of mods that are ok, its just impossible for them to keep up with.
The reason this don't-ask-don't-tell philosophy works for the vast majority is that there is no possible way for you to be caught unless someone gets video proof and reports you, or if you speak about it in a game chat. This means normal players who dont stream/make content for the game will never ever have to worry about being banned for their ui mods, glam mods, etc. which I think is a good thing.
The problem now is that content creators have become unsafe since they constantly show their screen to the public, and now that SE is starting to enfore the tos, its screwing them over. I do agree that its very annoying that they just randomly now started enforcement after years of letting it slide, but I also think you are making an extremely poor decision if you make content on the game without removing your mods. Twitch streamers being banned for these mods is partially the fault of SE imo, as they have gone so long without enforcement, but the majority of fault goes to the streamer for taking that risk in the first place. The only people I see being banned for dumb things like UI and chat bubbles are streamers, so they should really just stop using these mods on stream, its just a bad decision now especially with people in the community who are constantly trying get streamers banned.
I have thoughts counter to Xeno's thoughts on this subject but after spending some time writing a fairly lengthy message about it trying to get my language JUST RIGHT so that I accurately got my point across I realized that I had just wasted 5 minutes of my life on a subject that's already been talked about to death and which I'm certainly not going to sway Xeno on one way or another and as such I should just take this video as entertainment and move on with my day.
Whilst the majority of the dev team deserves all the praise they get, the UI team is by far the worst in the industry. Slow, out-of-touch, menu simulator nonsense. It only took what, 8 years to see on the map mini aetherytes? It's like they have no passion for making beautiful and functional UI. Completely incompetent.
yes, but u cant use 3th party tool to improve your experience within the game and have fun cose u will get banned
I think it is a combination of various factors. 1) Japan tends to be behind the curve on UI and looks overall, heck their yahoo page looks like it is from the 90s or early 2000s because people were used to it; 2) Japan's lack of computer culture compared to the West means less experienced devs or devs with insight on user-friendliness; 3) Their coding, Yoshi P and his team repeatedly have stated that a lot of functions were sort of afterthoughts since they rushed to reboot FFXIV, which means spaghetti coding and to change even a line of coding could mean completely redoing things from scratch or crashing the entire crash server, compound with the fact that a good number of the original devs for FFXIV 1.0 didn't even bother to make notes left their team scrambling to figure out stuff even the UI team; 4) Their need to also account for console usage with a controller since FFXIV is one of the few MMOs on console, though I will say they should look to other games for UI improvements; and 5) insular and busy culture preventing them from seeing new things or adjusting to sudden changes or conditions, Yoshi P is already very outward looking and takes influence from other teams, companies, games, and so forth, but even so he is only one man.
Fortunately, they have been observing and implementing QoL and UI improvements and I hope they continue this trend.
I feel like some people just get off on reporting streamers for the smallest shit.
While I can understand the outcry of "Its just a reskin/UI Mod" as someone that has to oversee similar issues on a day to day basis, you cannot reasonably start putting in those kinds of exceptions to the rule. It would stretch already thin resources to breaking. So yes, SE treats all mods the same and hands out discipline for them all on an even level. So UI mods are the same as gameplay/Boss mods. Sure some acts can be particularly egregious but for the most part they are all on the same level. SE is also fairly consistent in that they do not hunt for it, but act when it is reported and proof provided.
If a company can't reasonably tell the difference between tweaking a UI to make it look better vs. actually f**king cheating, that's not a issue with mods, that's in issue with the moderators. Even if you can't outwardly make exceptions, it doesn't require a genius to look at a case and go, "yep harmless" and ignore it.
@@qlcrane8019 You're the one that needs to reread what I wrote. And yes, I can use my brain unlike you apparently.
Honestly I'm just so tired with all this mod bullshit...at one point I'm just trying to imagine another timeline where this game only exist on consoles. Shout-out to console players, you guys are amazing, if somehow someway SE just straight up ban every single mod in the future..at least we know who can play the game better without mod.
@@resixte6n842 I don't know what's worse, the fact that you think all mods somehow make people better at the game, or that you think console players are "better" because they can't use mods. There's probably a ton of then that would absolutely get mods if they could. Also banning all mods would harm the game not make it better. The matter of the fact is, the modding community is huge and probably makes for a huge chunk of the player base. Alienating all those players will widely be regarded as a bad move.
@@saemitatsuya8419 what are you talking about? All mods are literally already banned. And it won’t alienate anyone except streamers, because SE cannot know if you use mods unless you fucking broadcast it to every schumck on the internet. I don’t know why streamers can’t get this very simple thought through their brains.
I use quite a few QoL mods (chat bubbles, modified CD timers, and achievement trackers), but I'm also not stupid enough to stream the game while doing so.
Haru knew the risks, and it only takes a single troll with too much time on their hands to get him banned. Does this really surprise anyone? I should hope not.
Yeah. I use stuff like that too. XIVLauncher QoL plugins and UI mods with it
I think some people just don't realize how hard it is to filter out each and every mod you'd have to give individual approval for if you wanted to allow mods officially. If it's a blanket ban they don't have to waste a lot of time trying out each and every individual mod. Is it a bit lazy? Perhaps, but they've claimed they'll be adding in popular mods into the game itself if it's for QoL updates and stuff.
@@chabꟊ Not really, it is pretty tricky when the lawyers get involved. You start creating lists, but then people keep pushing the list and rules, so they have to clarify. Then those clarifications need clarifications and exceptions and soon you will get a complicated ToS that confuses people even more. Not the mention how Japanese IP laws are regarding mods. Then you have to tell the hires what to watch out for, but the issue is what happens if there is something that straddles the grey area? Do you keep the status quo? Do you suspend the user? Yoshi P said that he doesn't want to waste time and recourses (i.e. people report to him while he is dealing with a new FFXIV expansion and FFXVI) and to not get Square's more corporate side involved, he just says a blanket ban is fine.
He has stated that ACT could be a ToS violation (it is), but he isn't going to go out of his way to ban people if they are hiding it or not being toxic to other players. So long as you have some plausible deniability the devs are not going to bother. The team could install something like an anti-cheat or something that detects the more outrageous mods and third-party applications, but he generally prefers not to. Anti-cheats according to Yoshi P are illegal, what I think is that they are likely not illegal per see but there need to be some significant modifications for it to be compliant with Japanese law and then resources are wasted in updating and maintaining it, as the addition of anti-cheat measures just makes some people try to break it.
then again because of my training, I am watching it from a legal perspective rather than an end-user perspective.
@@coolyeh1017 thank you, I was going to mention that this is more of a legal nightmare than a logistics nightmare, but that put it into much better words than I ever could.
You make the game have an API so you can enforce what can and cant be modified by 3rd party addons. WoW has one, ESO has one for example. If you dont want something moddable, then you make it so those parts of the game cant be interacted with by players. This is how WoW breaks addons that cross the line
Even then, what do you do for sheer cosmetic mods? I have one that turns wind up Dragonet into a different color, should that be banned?
@@TheDapperDragon It is going to be tough, but realistically as long as you don't show it you are fine. The problem is that there are many modders and people who are willing to cross the line on ToS even for cosmetic mods. For example the nude mods incident on Twitter, Yoshi P said that he doesn't want to walk into the legal quagmire because lack of cracking down on those mods may mean an implicit approval by Square Enix and thus affects the ratings of the game or get into trouble with local regulatory authorities.
Square of course is going to keep a blanket ban because again to keep track of what is okay or not is a nightmare. What is okay to one person may not be okay to another person. Another issue is what about consoles, FFXIV is also sold on the PS4/5, unless you modify the console itself (which is apparently a criminal offense in Japan without approval) there are no mods that can lead to a disparity. What about Steam users? What about their other FFXIV clients in China and Korea? But fortunately, Yoshi P and his team understand that they cannot meet the demands of every person and as such allow cosmetic mods so long as you don't bring it to their attention.
The ban is 10 days because it is his 2nd ban. 2 more bans for anything can get his account terminated.
thats not true, bans can vary. people have gotten perm or 10 days on their first
@@XenosysVex Really? I just remembered all the stuff a while back with them needing to fix the stupid "Bans never drop off" thing with the account penalty point system. (Which is still stupid cause warnings fall off in 1-2 years and bans falls off in 3 -6)
Over fucking UI mods that don't give any advantage whatsoever (except maybe make numbers more easy to read). Holy shit what a sad example of enforcing a rule.
And even worse, forcing the affected person to remove their hard work off the face of the internet OR ELSE! Fucking gross. Be better Square Enix...
Actually that's pretty bogus considering there were people who actually did a billboard with mod outfits as well as data mind for the Summer event that's going to be coming the 10th of this month that they announced and they got nothing but a slap on the wrist but yet they used to UI to make things pretty and they got a 10-day band? Square enix really needs to get their stuff together and orderly.
17:06 Think harder? like when Samurai actually had to think about Kenki Management instead of Braindead Shinten Spam?
Unless it's gives you advantage in a competetive scene(PvP) Who gives a fuck. This game is basically a single player game so i really don't understand these ToS simps losing their mind over UI mods. Very strange and very cringe.
Getting the exclusive cool weapon to show off in limsa is not really different than getting the cool shiny rank in pvp.
How many participation trophies do you have?
14:25 That's basically how reality TV makes money.
It's pretty cut and dry when you compare something like that DSR cheater to chat bubbles. But the problem is over time when more and more things get added, they'll get closer and closer to that line until it reaches a point where you can't easily tell what is unfair anymore. It happened in WoW where at first simple UI changes for quality of life evolved into stuff like Gladius, which gives an insane informational advantage over someone not using it. And at this point if you asked people who do arena is Gladius is cheating, they'd say no, because everyone should be using it if they are serious about pvp.
The main difference in FF14 vs WoW is that console players can't use the addons. So the answer can never be for people to just use it if it's better for everyone, because then the console would have a clearly worse experience. That's why for them the answer has to be nobody uses it, and that they'll try and add the things people really like to the game so that console players can enjoy them too. That said, I think that anyone using mods on the level of the DSR guy should get a flat out permaban. Probably ban anyone in his family too, just to be safe. He's the one they should nuke from orbit and make an example of to try and discourage this, because otherwise people will just think that it's worth a 10 day ban to cheat to get legend.
That is also a dumb argument. Consoles will always not have as much functionality as PCs. That's been true for any game that's ever supported crossplay, FFXIV isn't the first one. Never has that been used as an excuse to go out of their way to punish PC players because they can't bring QoL to both PC and console players.
Do you know that due to how FFXIV handles screen resolution you have a huge advantage in raid if you use a wide screen monitor? You can suddenly see twice the arena size. Those things are expensive too, but no one sane would say that's a reason to remove wide screen support.
@@24hr-Gaming I wasn't saying it's a good reason. I just think it IS the reason. It's an easy excuse to not give the PC players a leg up on the console players. Should it be that way? Obviously not. But playing on console would be a worse experience if they did allow full mod support for the PC version, so if they want to continue to say that console access to FF14 is a selling point, they have to keep them a remotely close experience.
i once reported someone for harassing me publicly and privately using their retainer / retainer name when i tried selling stuff in "their market" in 4.0 i reported them, SE did nothing, i tried to warn people about said person. i was suspended for 10 days for 1st offense
the reason this happens is because japan doesn't have fair use laws that allow for reasonable third party implements, since it's made in japan it has to follow these legal guidelines. thats the whole reason. it's not them being petty. they are following their countries commerce laws. many third party mods count as a redistribution of FFXIV's assets, which are protected under japanese commerce laws.
What i dont understand is why force them to delete VODs and clips on twitch only? What about youtube and other social media sites?
Either way i find this extremly concerning that they take your account hostage if you dont comply deleting your videos
I think they consider youtube a sort of plausible deniability in "well, we can't say for *sure* that the UI isn't edited in a video editor after the recording was taken" versus the unedited livestream. I'd assume it's the fact that by having those VODs/clips up you're continuing to endorse breaking the TOS even while banned.
Because the complaint sent to them is a twitch video
It's pretty simple don't break ToS, don't advertise that you do, and you won't get banned for it. If you want these mods in the game, then talk about it on the official forums. Start a movement and make it so they can't ignore the want for a better UI ect.
Honestly I'm with everyone saying to just stop flaunting the mods if you're gonna be streaming or recording
Complain if you like by all means, but they made it clear that if you don't flaunt it or say anything, they won't try and ban you since they need evidence of it to confirm the TOS violation
Yall are poking the bear by flaunting or having it on stream, and the consequences are starting to rear their head
This is why I haven't even gotten the faster launcher thing for the game yet. I want to, I want the simple QoL it brings like having a text bubble above players when they speak in chat, but I don't because of bullshit like this.
I fully understand Square don't want a WoW situation with their addons where people get DBM equivalents and make everything easy, but they could just say "Hey, UI and QoL stuff is fine, but if you use anything that's actually cheating you're gone." UI, QoL, and anything else that doesn't objectively make fights and other things easier should not be against ToS.
I find that I tend to lose sight of my mouse when its on-screen during combat from time to time. I don't use it to click abilities (unless I otherwise have to in certain situations) but I like to know where it is should I need it, and keep it out of the way when I don't, and in WoW I found an addon that made it so whenever you move your mouse it had some fancy glowy particles trail behind it to help you keep track of it, and that was really helpful. I can live without it, but being able to get something like that and not risk getting banned somehow would be nice. I don't stream or anything, but the risk is still there.
With the whole billboard and Twitch Cheater drama I’m not surprised that they are cracking down. All it takes is a few idiots and now while things are still hot it makes sense SE is enforcing TOS since mods were supposed to be more of a “hush hush” sort of thing.
Genuinely sucks for the twitch streamer and I hope things are resolved but for now I don’t think showing streams with mods is safe right now or possibly ever again. Makes me wonder if they’re going to go after footage that’s already out there as well
This is the guy they crack down on though?
I mean, SE has stated multiple times that third party mods are a no-no. For a really long time, SE never enforced these statements and the community made fun of them. Now they are enforcing them because the community kept pushing harder and harder.
Am I happy they treat small UI mods and overly advantageous mods the same ? Nope.
But if you know the rules, you knowingly decide to go against them and you get caught. That's on you.
True man it's in them don't use them follow the rules
A very good summary of the general discussion surrounding this tbh, if a little heavy in speculation.
I got banned for two days, because I chased one of my guildmembers through gridania for fun and forgot to disable emotes. I emotet maybe 7 to 10 emotes in a row (slapping him and throwing something on him) Someone reportet and i got to the exact same room as haru HOURS later. Right away from raid. To get told i was banned for 2 DAYS. For litterally nothing very upsetting, not even cheating...
If there are rules, and you are aware of such rules. And you deliberately decided to break said rules. You have no right to be mad about the punishment. Regardless of how ridiculous these rules might be.
Worst take on the internet, the multi billion dollar corporation doesn’t need you to defend them bud
@@colinkwasnik imagine not being able to deal with the consequences of YOUR own decisions. Grow up kid.
It's unfortunate that for people to make content about the game, they have to actively tone down their enjoyment of it. From QoL, to improved visuals, mods add a lot to this game that developers have just decided no to do over this past decade. I think things like this are a big reason why the FFXIV streaming community isn't bigger, it seems like Square is actively against its community at times.
Xeno is correct. People bow to SE like they're gods. They're people like all of us. They make mistakes too, even though they may have good intentions. This is why the community has to hold them accountable. If you look at a person or a group of people as god(s), they'll build upon that. Then it gets to a point where trying to hold them accountable isn't even plausible.
I don't see how SE enforcing their ToS on someone breaking it with live video evidence has anything to do with that.
Because the people have allowed SE to do whatever they want, because they believe they know all. A lot of ff14 players see yoshi-p as a god, and by association, SE. They're the only game I can think of that doesn't openly allow UI mods. They've had years to fix their UI, and yet they don't. Everyone talks about how toxic wow community is, but the ff14 community isn't much better. They're just not mean, but they're sure as hell elitists.
@@Banana_Cognac You've got it backwards. SE allows people to play their game. You pay your licensing fee, follow the terms of service, and you're allowed to continue playing. Just because other games run by other companies have allowed UI mods, that doesn't entitle anyone to do it in this game. It's remarkable to me that players feel so entitled that they should be able to do whatever they deem should be allowed, rather than follow the rules set in place. The rules that they acknowledged when they signed up for the game.
(I'm not even against UI mods, I'm just against everyone acting entitled, like they should have the right to ignore their contracts)
@@RockR277 and it's remarkable to me that people play a game that has serious need of updating in certain areas, and they just roll with it. Instead of demanding more of a game they pay monthly for. And on top of that, yoshi and the devs have essentially eluded to mods being ok, so long as you don't get caught. Lol. What a way to dance around the issue. They need to fix their UI. People have been asking for it for a long while now. But I guess the ff14 fanboys and girls will just follow along no matter what.
@@RockR277 and I get what you're saying. I'm not saying people who get caught breaking ToS shouldn't get in trouble. I'm simply saying, they either need to fix their outdated/mediocre UI, or allow mods to do so. It's a simple fix. But instead they just tell you not to get caught. Such a weak answer on their part.
I use UI mods and a few QOL plugins but nothing that would give me a really fair advantage… like I just like having a better UI. I’m never going to record or stream this game because of this shit. At least it was 11 days and not perma
And then Blue got the real HIGHLIGHT of the video
Does anyone know if and for how long did the guys that cheated on DSR got banned for? Xeno's argument is that it's likely for the same amount of time but do we know that for sure?
Xeno said he didn’t know if the cheater got a ban at all. I’d really like to know because the dude got banned on twitch so they may have intentionally gotten their account banned and started new accounts to cover their tracks.
as far as i know he was not banned at all. SE cant do much if evidence is deleted
You really can't compare Harus 11 days ban to the Ultimate ban, as all we can do is assume the duration of the Ultimate guy ban. He may have gotten perma-banned for all we know. Also that red circle... if it truly shows who targets you, it's really an advantage. Haru even admits his mistake quite clearly there.
If it's the mod I'm thinking of, it only shows players (or in this case a GM) that target you, and I don't believe it functions in PvP. It's mainly used by the RP community. Say someone is looking at you and sent you a tell, and you just cannot manage to find this person.. The mod allows you to easily spot them and target them back.
At least he's taking it in good stride.
I could literally change color settings on my monitor which is exactfucking same as gshade does. Is that bannable act?
It's a bit ridiculous. But they also can't verify what other mods he's using, could possibly be using the same mod as the guy who used the mod for raids. So it is over the top since only the UI mod was reported, but they can't show leniency to one and not the other.
I agree that some mods should be put on a white list since a basic UI mod really isn't a big deal
The problem is that Third-Party-Software, whether UI or else, could lead to a whole in a programm code that's why it is forbidden to use such software.
No... No not right... And the code is already open and can be exploited in a million different ways by anyone with basic programming knowledge... The only problem SE has with TPS is that streamers using it encourages others to use it, and they have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in their game that prevents programmers from exploiting the fuck out of the game, so if it becomes widespread, then they are opening the floodgates to hackers and cheaters of all types.
Thus... If you do use anything, you're expected to not publicize it... Period... This means they don't have to put adware on our computers to monitor us, and no one is any the wiser (Minus the literal hundreds of obvious bots flying around collecting stuff all over the open world who are CLEARLY not managed by players since many of them are online 24/7).
The problem that I have is that I have sent tickets to the GMs about player harassment, about how a player has been bypassing bans and suspensions by creating multiple accounts and overall being a-hole in game. This person had VODs on both Twitch and UA-cam showing off his harassment as he multi-boxed on his ~5 characters; that paired with VODs from the other people being harassed would be ample evidence to get all of his accounts banned.
However, and this is verbatim from the GM that answered my ticket, according to the GMs "We do NOT look at Twitch and/or UA-cam VODs as part of our investigations into ToS violations"
So my only response to SE is this: Pick a Lane. Either you review VODs, or you don't... you can't have it both ways.
a possible recent-ish change in their policy of investigating TOS violations?
I wouldnt mind if they were actually consistently enforcing this rule, but they're not. They do it when is convinient for them and when is not they turn a blind eye. The grey area doesnt exist out of mercy and kidness but out of practicality, it would be a pain in the ass to enforce it on all the community and it would create tons of backlash. Square Enix have sucessfully disguised lazy enforcement as merciful leeway.
@@qlcrane8019 are you gonna look me into the eye and tell me that NO ONE on SQ team 3 knows that preach has streamed with chat bubbles?
Is harmless fun? yes but hey the rules are rules, i dont make them they do. But since Preach is poster child for the ex-wow player that found a new better game in FF XIV they let him keep his fun until they are force to do something.
If you buy that they're just unware that this streamers are using mods until a vindictive little bitch reports them, fine but i dont. I dont buy it for a second that they dont know, they just turn a blind eye when its convinient for them.
I think the UI stuff is stupid but the fact that they have said something and you do it anyways is a disrespect and so they get banned. Untill they get the whole mod shite under control, all mods are off limits and that should be respected. Is the UI mod thing stupid? Yes but you need to understand that the BS cheating mod is also a UI modification.
@Siberian What for reading and understanding the rules of the game that you have accepted as a player when you join the game?
If it is the mods that shows how to do mechanics before they happen, then yeah ban away, but if it makes something more cleaner then it shouldn't have matter. Also I think that if you are going to stream, then take it off before starting the stream. Now with the blatant cheating by using third-party mods, by certain players during the current ultimate raid, one should be more careful than that. Also it shows that people have no life if they clipped a certain piece of the stream, and directly reported it. What about people who has disabilities who uses certain mods to compensate for said disabilities? With how it is now, are random ass people going to report, and get people who has disabilities banned? This is one of those things that has that very gray area of should the mods be available or not. I also agree with you on the point that they prioitise UI mod usage over things that are more severe than modding that doesn't affect anyone else.
I think the only one that was really questionable imo was the cast bar mod to tell where you can slidecast but everything else is basically aesthetic lol.
did you know you can learn to slide cast with tools already in game? put an emote on your bar, the moment it lights up while casting a spell you can move, using that you can get a feel for your slide cast window and adjust from there.
Nah its fine. There are already a lot of ways to not only visually see when to slidecast but also feel. this is just QoL
@@danielbricker7928 Right but with that you can just watch your cast bar instead of an emote or rather than manually feeling it out. Idk, I feel like it skips the brainwork somewhere in the process, even if not by very much.
@@TheShadowfan9000 i mean you could always put a piece of paper on your monitor. Like i get what youre trying to say, it just doesnt work because its not a cheat or an advantage like you claim. and once you play the game enough you wont need anything because you will be able to feel the server tick
@@XenosysVex That's true. I guess I'm thinking about it from a factual perspective. Does it give an advantage? "yes" even if there's literally no reason to use it whatsoever vs something silly like chat bubbles or prettier skill icons or something. Then again, all of this wouldn't be an issue if they just addressed the grey area of mods and finalized it all. It's pretty dumb either way of it lol.
I know it's not the biggest offense, but seeing and hearing(I believe it makes a sound) when someone switches target to you in Crystalline Conflict could make you react better....
This brings back memories. It's so sad they even copied the jail/gm uniform from 11. "Welcome to mordion goal adventurer!" 🙃
There needs to be a difference between a quality of life addon and cheating. A chatbubble is QOL while showing stuff that shouldn't be shown is cheating.
simplest thing would just build an API in the game and only allow mods to track certain things, easy and clear they can always modify it if they see something is too much for them.
That wont work, because SE cannot define this without offering an appeal process. The only solution here is not get rid of the toxicity that leads people to report it.
This was done because it was forced by a idiot member of the community. You dont have to go far to look for examples. Check out other comments.
@@Luca-re3ve It's not easy to build an API for modding. Realistically, without a full engine rework, making any sort of modding API for FF14 would introduce way more problems than it would solve than the current policy.
In addition, at present, any sort of modding API would just give cheaters *more* tools to cheat, not limit them in any fashion. People already make extremely cheaty mods without any sort of official API; giving them more tools is just a bad idea all around.
Making some API open for modding in MMO?? You just opening some channels for cheater to make cheat engine more easier
@@arolimarcellinus8541 not at all cose you are the one deciding what to show on an API and u can be as restricted as u want to be
We got multiple bots on every NA world dropping thousands of high end resources every day, earning tens of millions (if not 100M+) per day, yet this is the issue they care about.