The Beginning and the End of the Wild West
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- The Beginning and the End of the Wild West
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As long as Santee is around and keeping the West alive the West will never end. Thanks Santee and Company!
Thank You!
Well said Frank
He's inspiring more of us to be historians as well
I agree, Santee’s videos make all Reenactors better at history and acting.
Yes, well said. We need more folks like Santee.
My great grandfather use to tell me the story about how his family left Montana in a wagon to head to Alaska. Got as far as Seattle, when his father decided it was “to damn cold” and headed south and settled in southern Oregon. That was the late 1910s and that always felt right to me as the end.
For the beginning, part of me wants to say Lewis & Clark was the soft start but 1820 seems to be the more common answer.
Yeah, that would still be in the fur trading era...which is Old West.
I live in Lawrenceburg Tn, it's about 20 mins from the Natchez Trace. A very historical travel route . Soon as u get on/off in Hohenwald Tn (20 mons from my hse) then it'd Meriwether Leeis burial site and cabin where he was shot. Very cool history. It's not a big tourist spot ,just something nobody talks about.
Lewis and Clark, just because they were exploring did not mean it was the beginning of the Old West, the Old West starts with settlers, and towns being built.
Hi Santee. I enjoyed the video. These are questions we’ve kicked around for a long time. People think you can compartmentalize time periods, but, really, one era slowly morphs into the next. Wyatt Earp was still around in the 1920s, and Jeff Milton’s last gunfight was in 1917. On the front end, fur trapping mountain men from the 1820s were acting as Army guides during Red Cloud’s War in the lane 1860s. So, picking a definite beginning and end is difficult. Fun to discuss though.
🤠🤠 Thank You! It is. I was shocked to find out there were still tribal issues past WWI
@@ArizonaGhostriders yeah. I knew the Mexican government was still paying scalp bounties into the 1920s, but I wasn’t aware of any conflicts in the States that late. My great grand father had some Indian stories from when he lived in Saskatuwan (can’t spell) in the 1890s/1910.
So I guess my 1903 sewing machine can still be considered "Old West"?? The wife and I were having this same conversation last night. Very informative video Santee!
Yes, absolutely
Last stagecoach robbery was in 1913, by then. Crime within 1912 was not as rampant. For me, what defines the wild west was its crimes, Bank Robbery (although rare, and not as grand of a story, they did happen. Just not as the media depicts it), train, stagecoach robbery, horse theft. And any type of crime, where it was... wild. Wild with disease, bad people, and counties, towns being constructed, and the Government trying to tame the old west, and form a civilized country.
So my guess, 1865 was the beginning. 1912 was the end
I like to think that it started at the end of the fur trade before the Mexican war when the trails really opened up, so i give 1840 a good start date. I have to say that ww1 really killed it. I believe the Wild West passed away when the generation that made it wild began to pass away.
Good thinking.
1840 sounds about right. The Louisiana Purchase was owned by the French (Obvious, I know) and Mexico (or Spain?) had the rest before the 1840's. Would give reason for it to be called the "American" Wild West.
I wish the end of the Wild West wasn’t so overlooked. After Red Dead Redemption 2 came out everybody believes the Wild West ended in 1899. Great video as always Santee
Thank You!
no one belives that haha
@@EasternOutlaw09 no that was just a game, sometimes video games and movies will make up things make scripted things as well the Wild West actually ended in 1895
@@albihysenaj5997 It was declared over in 1895 but I don’t agree with that. There were still many outlaws and gunslingers and all those people we associated with the Wild West era. Like Butch Cassidy and his gang, they didn’t die until the 1900s came around.
the very early 1900's you knew that things were going bad when butch & sundance had to leave the country to find work
HA!
Great episode Santee! With folks like you the Old West will never end! Have a great weekend!
Thanks, you too!
I see the west as a whole as stages.
Stage 1: The Old West
Coronado's Expedition 1540 to Louisiana Purchase 1803
Stage 2: The Frontier West
Louisiana Purchase 1803 to Start of the American Civil War 1861
Stage 3: The Wild West
End of the American Civil War 1865 until Arizona becomes a state in 1912.
It's kind of a broad stroke. Especially the Old West bit. It is a bit American focused, But I consider the concept of "The West" to be west of the Mississippi in the lands that would become part of the United States. I feel most people would agree on those terms. Otherwise we start to redefine what it is and it becomes diluted. I mean do we start with Cortés in 1519? Or Columbus in 1492? Or the Vikings in 1021? Or do we roll it back to 11,500-30,000 years ago when the Native Americans arrived?
But as for me the story of the West is defined in the states I laid out.
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It's always a deep question regarding the beginning and end of things on a spectrum. People can't even agree on when outer space begins. Ultimately, beginnings and ends like these are matters of opinion.
Funny thing though, we never really know when something like this begins, but most can agree when something has ended. Whether it was the Golden Age of ancient Greece, Medieval Period, or the Wild West - no one during those times knew they were living during an era. But we can, generally, agree that those are no more.
In my mind, probably from the influence of Western movies and art, the Wild West never had automobiles. So, I'm happy with the popular occurrence of automobiles being my personal marker of the end. Automotive mass production started around 1900 so, sadly, that will be my marker for the end (although I'm sure it took a while before those cars reached the West).
The beginning is tougher. Taking the lead from movies and art, cattle drives and trains are my markers. Wikipedia says there was a Texas cattle drive (albeit eastward) in 1836 and the Overland Route (railroad) which replaced some stagecoach (another Western icon) routes was completed in 1869. I like that the _Goodnight-Loving Trail_ opened up in 1867 to places we consider the "Old West" - New Mexico and Colorado. So, I'll use 1867 as my beginning.
So, there ya have it. Movie logic. The Wild West was from 1867 - 1900.
Never dies on this channel. Long live the West!
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Sorry ya couldn't get a straight answer.....but it's a great episode. Hey...I can see your chinagin. Ya look 10yrs younger!
LOL!
Well, having been born as a slave into the Soviet Union (like every other citizen); West to me is Poland and beyond. So, a very wide area. Thankfully, dad was such a trouble-maker that he got kicked out, and his family had to go with him. Shows how intelligent those Soviet higher-ups were. Could you image if the Devil got so fed-up with certain souls that he started kicking them out of hell? Then again, he's got his giant three-headed dog guarding the _entrance_ instead of the exit. Makes no sense.
But in all seriousness. I just figured the Wild West started sometime during the 1830s and ended right at the outbreak of WWI.
We're pretty close in our thinking.
The Lewis-Clarke Expedition was a very important event in our young country. There’s lots of speculation on a possible “secret” mission of Lewis & Clarke. Conspiracy Theorists have various ideas about what they were really doing. I think by the time the First World War began/ended the “Old West” was being transformed by culture, technology, and politics. Great info Santee. As always informative and entertaining 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thank You!
Holy Smokes!
Dirty Dan is all dressed up like a high faluting Eastern Dude!
What's the world coming to?
I know!
I never really considered the beginning of the west but the end I believe to be somewhere between 1890 and 1920. 1890 because the worst of it was over and the rest was manageable and 1920 because the "manageable" parts were managed for lack of a better phase and during the 19 teens was the Mexican revolution and that war on the border was full on guerrilla war just as bad if not worse then the worst of the true wild west days. But that's just my opinion.
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amazing to think, ? just 70-80 miles north of LA there are vast areas of land strewn with boulders that have NEVER been disturbed by man or beast ? no point going there + no water
Right?
Interesting take on the beginning of the wild west 🤔 not sure I agree! But even I could argue with myself on this one. Would it be in the late 1700's when when French and American trappers traveled up the Missouri in search of beaver? Or at the lousiana purchase itself and the great quest of Lewis and Clark to find what was mistakenly thought to be an easy water way up the Missouri river to the head waters of the Colombia? Or would it be the Ashley and Henry start of the rocky mountain fur company, and the advent of trade goods being shipped into the Rockies for roundevious. And let's not forget that the British Hudson bay company was established in the northern Rockies already from the west.
This was the ground work of trials experiences and leaders into a very wild west. Those who followed these foot steps into communities that signal the taming of the west. As the immigrants who came and settled the land brought with them religion and family values that was at odds with the locals.
Food for thought
Mountain man
Well, yes, it could be all that. But since it is the American West, and Lewis & Clark were commissioned to cover the lands America owned, I felt it works better.
Many scholars say the beginning was Greece however a growing number believe Sumer contributed to Western development in significant ways and therefore deserves recognition as the beginning of Western Civilization.
But obviously you didn’t have time to delve into that…
Good info, though
The End! Dirty Dan strikes again.. 😂🍻
LOL!
Great Movie - Ride with the Devil. Congrats to the winner!
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Congratulations Hugh and yeah Mrs Santee does do her Pew-Pew better sorry Santee
LOL!
Wow! I never won anything before! Ever! Thanks Santee!
You bet!
I was born a hundred years too late. Another great video, Santee. Thanks for keeping it alive. Pew pew to the Mrs. To all the Ghost Riders, too.
Glad you enjoyed it
The west probably started in 1821
😎
Unfortunately I believe the old west ended when there was no one left too have lived it and to sit and tell ya a story of the time.... Oh an congrats to the winner!!!
Thank You!
Great episode Santee! I didn’t even recognize Dirty Dan. He cleans up perty good. Nice hat Dan!😊
Right!
nice show
do you have something about regulators ?
Lincoln County ones?
The introduction of barb wire to established boundaries was a significant factor. Hence the cowboy song: "Don't fence me in"
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Thank you, as always, for such a wonderful video and all the historical tidbits.
Thank You!
It's tough to figure out the edges of a period in history that was only defined in retrospect. It's probably easier to work out some key moments, like the establishment of the "Trails" (1830's and 1840's) and Oregon Treaty of 1846, end of the Mexican American War in 1848, California Gold Rush in 1849, Treaty of Fort Laramie of 1851, Pike's Peak Gold Rush of 1859, the Homestead Act in 1862, and the completion of the Transcontinental Railway in 1869. The end? It has never ended in our hearts!
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Hi santee. I watched the good the bad and the ugly. It was great!
Awesome! Glad you liked it.
Great Episode. Lot's of great info, and plenty of laughs. Thanks so much my friends!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video Santee you look pretty Sharp dressed up🍺🍻🥃👊🤠
🦅🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🦅
Thank you kindly
Born in 1951, I have been absolutely fascinated by the Old West, grew up watching Westerns thinking everything I saw was just the way it really was, but, truth really IS sometimes stranger than fiction, one of the things I learned watching Arizona Ghost riders.
Very cool!!
What I did not know there was a giveaway 😢 and I did not see my name
Awww, maybe next time!
My estimation is from the Oregon Trail era to around WW1, with the Lewis & Clark expedition and the introduction of interstate highway system being the ABSOLUTE hard stop on either side. The heyday being the 15-20 years following the Civil War, anything before that feels like it's winding up and anything after that feels like it's winding down.
Good timeline!
I'd say its like 1836-1912, with 1912-1941 as an honorable post western era.
1836 because of the first Colt revolver and also the Oregon Trail or whatever
OK!
Somewhat unpopular opinion, but the second I see an automobile in a real photo, or fictional movie etc, I can't view it as " The Old West " I think " Turn of The Century " Anyways, great video as always Santee !
Thanks, and you are definitely entitled to your opinion. You make a great point as well.
Santee was looking very suave' & deboner in this one. Musta got that job as a part-time undertaker....The "wild west" will always be around as long as there are-----.DRUM ROLL..."Arizona Ghostriders" ! !
Thank You!
Well don't y'all look fine and all dandified today. Is there any soap and water left in that town??
I'd say the Wild West began in the 1820's. Independence, MO was founded in 1827. Although most people think the real migrations started there , it was actually in Weston, MO. just a tad bit further north and west. There was a pioneer wagon camp in Independence though. In the 1700s my French Canadian family was in Detroit, St Louis, and all the way to the founding of Old Mobile, Alabama. One ancestor uncle who could make gunpowder and started a brick yard settled there. He sailed with Pierre La Moyne D'Iberville. A tip of the hat to all the Mountain men, fur trappers and mappers that opened up the West way before it became a 'popular' move for folks.
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My family has been in New Mexico and Arizona since it was Mexico. My grandmother along w generations of my family are from Las Cruces. She was born there in the mid 20s. It was a poor Mexican town. Nobody had cars. It was still backboards, horses and wagons. I’d say that’s stil the Wild West . Atleast the Wild West the movies have portrayed to all of you from back East or Europe
Interesting!
Jamie's knowledge of history surpasses the average American's, sadly. Consider this when contemplating the end of the old West: raids into Arizona resulting in deaths and abductions by Apache holdouts in Mexico continued into the 1930s. At the outbreak of WW2 the US still had cavalry stationed on the Mexican border. Those troopers shipped out to the Pacific theater, New Guinea to be specific, minus their horses but they did take their pack mules!
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Howdy santee👋
hi
I think aspects of the "Wild West" are still alive today. 2 examples. My family had a Mexican national rustling cattle, when they confronted him he said he could get an illegal to kill them for 200.00 so...
Another is in the 70s a group of bikers caught a Apache woman and raped her. The sheriff's department found te bikers in a ditch all had been castrated. Sheriff's showed up at the bikers headquarters (an old abandoned rock cabin in a canyon) and told them via loud speaker "You have pond the Reservation, we cannot help you. We recommend you leave immediately." So As said before, some aspects are alive and well.
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Santee, I wanted to share this song with you. You may not be familiar with it. I found it on a vinyl album in a second hand record shop in Philadelphia in the '80's. I enjoyed most of the album, but this song has really stuck with me through the years. It's a song by Don McLean called Bronco Bill's Lament. Enjoy:
ua-cam.com/video/AZTIAMq7ucc/v-deo.html
Thanks for sharing! I like it a lot.
Thank you so much Santee, Congrats Hugh. That was very interesting. Love to watch. :)
Thanks so much!
When writing or making any Western media, I always like to say started in the 1860s after the Civil War and ended in the 1920s with the last Indian War- though in some places it never totally died imo.
Basically I want my cartridge guns ha.
It’s wishy washy but that’s what I think!
It’s like whenever someone asks me when I think the Medieval times began and ended- it’s not easy to simply give it a start and end and for my purposes it’s easier to just assign a date that seems relatively appropriate. (For my part on that one though I say like the 1000s to the mid-1500s)
Cool!
I consider the West to be from the Louisiana Purchase to 1912 when the last Territory, Arizona, got Statehood.
Good man!
If you look at history of the Southeastern US, the frontier started in earnest around the 1720's. All the same kinds of events that made the West so Wild were happening here in the South. It was simply a way of life down here. Georgia began to be populated when the great Wagon road that began in Virginia and ended in South Georgia, and we had fights with Indians and uprisings, stage coach robberies, Saloons and Brothels in full swing in most every little community. The South began to settle down around the 1850's and after the "War of Northern Aggresion" was over, those still pissed off Southerners went West because of the "reconstruction" occupiers made their lives horrible. So they struck out looking for the freedom they couldn't have where they were born. Add into the mix the second great Irish migration along with the suddenly VERY profitable beef industry and you have the perfect recipe for what we know today as the Wild West.
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Hmmm, I can't rightly say _when_ the Wild West ended, but will say that it's last hurrah was the unpleasantness of Pancho Villa's raid, and subsequent pursuit by the US Army.
Interesting!
To me the " End of the West" was about 1900ish. As the industrial age came in and people could travel by rail unrestricted that was about the end of it.
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the end to me was World War I when the country truly came together as one as it directly impacted everyone everywhere. the southwest was no longer lawless, technology advanced that machinery was overtaking manual labor on even the remotest farm and ranches. Pancho Villa, the “hero” of people, destroyed the last remnants of the old west with the US military forced to learn that they weren’t fighting the same people as before and times were different…
as for the start…it was the 1750s. the expansion west truly started then, heading west if the Appalachians. it was a serious issue that partly caused the revolutionary war and directly led to the expansion of the nation west over the next 150 years
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I'm not sure if you can say when the Wild West started or ended as that would require an agreed upon definition. Personally I think of it being between the end of the civil war and about 1910.
You pew pew is not bad, Santee but Mrs. Santee does it so much better. Actually I slipped up and spelled pew as peu which is the French for little. Which is fair enough because as Mrs, Santee is always a lady I thought she would carry a Derringer rather that a six gun.😀
Thank You!
I would say that the opening of the Lincoln Highway in 1913, which was the first cross-country road in the US marked the end of the American Frontier. Of course bank robberies, shootouts and outlaws evading law enforcement continues to the present day, so we can't use those as a basis of measurement.
Thank You!
Great video! It's so hard to define the beginning and end of the Old West. It is somewhat easier to define specific erras like the homestead erra or the Indian Wars but even that gets hazy. I think of the primary boundaries as being from the end of the Civil War to the end of Butch and Sundance.😀
That's a common timeline, too!
In Texas the Old West started in the 1820s when Stephen S. Austin immigrated with Anglo setters coming in from Missouri. Sam Houston, Crockett, Travis, Bowie, and the others at the Alamo in 1836, etc. The Mexican War, and wars with the Apaches and Comanches, the Texas Rangers all in the 1840’s.
@@danziegner Sure!
I really appreciate all your knowledge and and creativity. well done! I have a question about the walking stick you have in your hand. can you please give me some background info about it ? I have a very similar one i acquired in Queens new york. with a silver top with a monogram of an M with oval design on top. I have never found another till now. i gather from this video its from the 20S? glad i found your channel. Thank you..
I bought it in an antique store. It's actually a pool cue made into a walking stick.
I have a question my good friend The West started during the time after the French and Indian war and after the American revolution ended and they started moving west then the Indians had an uprising during that time period of fighting American settlers from the Appalachian mountains across Kentucky and down in the lower valleys areas of the Appalachian mountains I say The Mississippi River was its turning point you crossed it on the western side You're headed west you were still across of the Mississippi You're on the eastern side of the river The West hasn't started when you cross cross the river until you get on the Western Bank then you know that you were in the West and that was right after the American revolution Western expansion started manifest destiny hit and then you went down to Mexico area and you run into Santa Ana at the Alamo and battle of santasito is where Santa Ana got his butt kicked by Sam Houston we took Texas then you had it on from there in Comanche territory Right after the Alamo fell people were moving moving west Morgan Fremont he was mapping that area with Carson and everything across the Great divide won the battle for California for us so yeah there's places out here in the United States in the old west area that's still runs wild today and no man or no woman has ever been there before yet they're still unknown places out there
Thanks for commenting and sharing your research.
Well living in Colorado has showed me that the west is still very much wild but if asked when I think the old west ended I would say just after ww2 in 1945.
OK!
The wild west begun with Davy Crocket and ended Roy Rogers............
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There are still places where the west is still wild ... just have to look
Not hard down here.
I reckon that the “Old West” never truly died, it lives on as an idea, as a hope of, “if things get bad, there’s a place where we can start anew, where anything is possible” and through people like yourself it still pops up in visible ways.
Parts of Tucson are still the Wild West.
Nice beard Mr. Santee!
I have heard that over half of our Nation is still wilderness. P'raps the "Frontier" still partially remains.
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I've always thought of the old west ending on November 31 1930. I guess it'll never truly end.
We have some places here...
This is why I’m up early on Saturday, thanks
Enjoy!
It was over when movie stars like Tom Mix began hanging out with Wyatt Earp 🤷♂️
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Thanks again Santee & Co. Would you consider the Mountain Man Period part of Wild West history ?
I actually wood. It's considered Fur Trade, mainly, but I lump it in.
I thought of this video idea due to all of the lawlessness occurring in Mexico right now. I mean the Wild West didn’t only happen in the US.
Correct!
My family history- 1926
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How long have we been here? What year is it? When did Santee get gray haired? When did Dirty Dan, get all cleaned up? Why is Joe Biden still in office? Ahhhhh!!!
HAHAAH!
All of the guests' answers are hilarious 😂
Glad you enjoyed it.
But the resolution started in 1775.
Hey Santee,
Do you think you can talk about Dinosaur Paleontology in the Old West and the “Bone Wars”?
Yes
For me, once Arizona, New Mexico and Wyoming became states...that was the end.
Me too
I would imagine that there was still plenty of the old west traits, justice, traditions, and all that made the wild west what it was, well into the 1940s in certain territories .. I could be wrong..
Yes!
Saw that costume at intro and thought you might be in Pennsylvania celebrating "Groundhog Day". Thanks for the video.
I wish!
And here i thought the wild west only start mainly before the civil war and it became bigly a by product of it and ended with the invention of the barb wire or 1920's.
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Santee, do you prefer your mustache or goatee with added chin whiskers? Does your facial hair depend on your character or do you just go with the flow?
I really went with the flow. Shaved off the goatee last week....it was a bit much, but worked for the movie.
Congratulations on reaching over 100k subscribers 🎉🎊
Thank You!
Is not ever day we see Santee dressing the part of a dandy!! The top 🎩 kill me it looks great on you ! The wild west maybe gone but but this channel keeps it well alive!
Thank You!
Sasparilla Joe had hit the nail on the head.......he who dreams Wild west never started and never ends.........👍🥃🍻
LOL!
Thank you Santee another great video.
Sorry but Mrs Santee says Pew Pew better.🤣🤣
Yes!
Great job. How about doing Old West Preacher; Dressing the Part?
Working on that
Good morning Santi. Ted from Texas checking in. Have you ever thought about doing an episode on all the different types of Transportation a good note and properties to the West? Everything that was shipped to the West took a long long time to get there and how expensive it was. Great show see you next week
I have talked about that in videos. Will do more!
Those pews sounded just like her..................... * insert sarcastic shifty eyes here*
LOL!
Great video Santee and Gratz the the winner
Right on
Either these answers are part of a script, or folks just like giving Santee a hard time. Dirty Dan certainly loves to do so. 🤣
We improv.
What movie?
Working title is "Mudslingers"
I'd say the range is 1865 to 1920 anything past 1920 is kinda pushing it
Kinda.
This was a good mail question. I feel like I hear this question a lot, accompanied by several different answers. 😆 GREAT video, as always!
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My 83 year old Dad was born in on the farm in Canada so his birth certificate has a set of coordinates for the location of his birth. They don't even use that system anymore see have to figure out where he was actually born
Wow!
The old west is not a place to live but, Instead of choosing medieval times I’d go with the old west!!
OK!
I could be way wrong, but I've assumed that the Wild West era started in the 1840's with the Gold Rush, and definitely ended with cars and asphalt highways. Love the "interviews" with people giving dopey answers!
Shhhhh!! THEY don't know they gave dopey answers.
Western era started in 1821
Long as there's guys like Costner and Elliott it lives😅😅😅🎉
Yes
Maybe the start was when the fur companies started out and I think you're probably right about the end. 1918-1920. Another great episode. keep ur the good work1
Thank You!
Congratulations Hugh!👍🏽😀❤️🇺🇸
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Santee you sure did look like a city slicker with that stove top hat cane and long over coat. When the wild west started hard to say,but I believe it will never end. 🤠
Thank You!
When the wild west ended depended on where. Many places stayed ‘wild’ longer than others. It can be argued the Mexican border was and is still wild
Living so close to I can attest to that!
A better title would have been “The beginning of the mild west” … We’ll see you on down the trail!!!
LOL!
Very interesting insight to the old west. Not used to seeing you in the fancy duds
Not used to wearing them!
In my personal opinion i think the west started after Texas gained its independence , but like i said its just an opinion. And it dose make sence that it started with the Louisiana purchase.
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All those cars around … hmm. Is there such a video as “Automobiles in the Old West”?
It's on the list!