I swear people defending the show ending for danaerys are either trying to cope with their favorite show going full suck or they just hate emilia clarkes acting and want it to stop in some way no matter how dumb.
When the show first ended, I was in full denial. I didn't want to admit to myself that my favourite show at the time went bad. ...It passed though. More distance, more context. I came out of it. Not sure what’s taking others so long. I got over the denial within a couple months lol
@@loretheinexplicable6492yeah lol me too 😂 It slowly began to dawn on me from Season 5 on but I still had so much hope for the final season and then…. THAT happened 💀
They despise the dany character, because they are uncomfortable with her being a 'girlboss'. Got was written in the 90s before buffy so the hatred for her is due to the time the show aired rather than when the book was written.
Third option. Sexism in general. “Of course the woman was gonna go crazy, it was inevitable because she got angry and did violent/bad things before!” While conveniently ignoring that literally every male character did the same.
"Every time a Targeryen is born, the gods flip a coin" ^^ That line has absolutely poisoned the perception of all show watchers regarding not only Dany but Targaryens as a whole. The purpose of that line in the books was absolutely weaponized by the showrunners with the context being completely taken away. That and a focus on the Mad King (without a larger understanding of the history of Westeros and Targaryen rule) has ruined the potential of this as a Franchise for HBO. I watch a lot of reaction videos to the series and it's amazing how many reactors love Dany for 7-1/2 seasons and by Season 8 have backwards rationalized that she was always on this path, while hailing show Arya, show Sansa and show Cersei as badass girlbosses. Make it make sense. Yet you can't even blame the viewers, as the cleverness and subtlety of the early seasons (thank the source material) got thrown out the window in the later seasons. So the amateurish views of the viewers actually mirror the amateurish writing/storytelling/theme-building/plot-continuity of the showrunners (i.e. the viewers interpreted the story and characters exactly the way the writers intended). That's the saddest part. Such wasted potential for the series but for the universe and HBO. Now it's all so hollow and pointless. Yet HOTD Season 2 is worse in it's own different/unique way.
3:40 George loves history repeating itself while everyone ignores the lessons of the past. He heavily foreshadows Jamie having to take out another mad ruler. His name is literally King Slayer. He kills mad rulers. In Maggie's prophecy, Cersei will be killed by her brother. I don't think it will be Tyrion just because she assumes it will be.
YES, I constantlyyyyy have to remind people of this. So many people don’t get it. Even with the Amethyst Queen and Bloodstone Emporer, comparisons made with Rhaenyra and Aegon during the dance of the dragons. Powerful brother kills his elder sister in pursuit of the throne, which effectively depletes their house, line and world of their magic. After the Dance there was a huge time of famine and death, after the death of the Amethyst Emperor, the long night starts. Is it really so hard to see how he constantly implements history repeating itself?
Couldn’t agree more! People forget the way of the world Ned, Robb, Arya, Jon, Tyrion all also kill people who they see as enemies or breaks their laws or for vengeance. I also hate when they bring up the Tarlys from the show cause in the north if little umber & Karstark didn’t bend the knee to Jon & Sansa what do you think would’ve happened? The show never showed her able to intentionally take innocent life. When it happened unintentionally she always made adjustments. Then she just snapped after she won? Made no sense & the worst ending ever.
I think a lot of people end up forgetting that Daenerys is so young as well like her and Sansa are almost the same age but because of their different upbringings and because Daenerys gets sexualized so early in the series and so much of Sansa is showing her naivety to things of all kinds but the Sansa haters and the Dani haters aren't ready for that conversation I don't think
What I hate is how much they changed the Qarth storyline, like Danny is let into Qarth without threatening to burn them. And her lines in season 2 are why a lot of people say “look she was mad early on” even when half those lines don’t exist in the books. I hate what they did to the Qarth storyline.
Same especially they removed prophecy of three betrayals, mounts etc. They removed her tigirs fur (cause she was bald) killed her horse from drogo (only to give her another white horse in astapor lmao). Im currently readings storm of swords part 2 (readed 5 out of 6 dany chapters in SoS) and you can tell that writers didnt knew or what to do with Daenerys since start(or just hated the powerful woman)(only in the first book is Dany ch are nearly 1:1 to tv show) there isnt any chapater that they didnt rewrite. Dany story is the most changed compared to books FROM ALL CHARACTERS while she IS THE MOST IMPORTANT AND MY FAVORITE. They ignored azor ahai prophecy (it literally said that Dany will be the one who unite 7 kingdoms to fight the others but they give it to jon only for Arya to kill NK which even isnt exists in books [NK from show isnt the same who was in Bran chapter bedtime story {the one start that graped female white walker}]). Im glad that i got into books (another time because of Daenerys) because they are infinity times better.
@@Supernovice942 yes! "The Garden of Bones" 2x4 really should've been the first huge red flag of the series. Everything about Qarth in Season 2 is just wrong
YES that was so cringy 🥹 The first few bad lines of the show like why would anyone let her in after that 😭 And don’t forget the locking of certain people in a vault beimg played as a total girlboss moment when it was just soooooo cruel and weird 🥲
What confuses me is that Dany’s vision in S2 in the house of the undying supports the theory of her dying during the long night. We see her at a destroyed red keep, barely touching the throne and turning north towards the wall where she finally reunites with Drogo and Rhaegal in the night lands.
Makes me so angry. How is Dany mad for what she's done, how is Tywin not? Dany killed slavers. Tywin wiped out two houses over some debt and for making fun of his dad. Like...hello??
Maybe because Charles Dance is so charismatic and emilia clarkes acting ist pretty meh 🤣 (she can’t be fully blamed though, how could you actually make her show lines post Drogo-plot believable lol)
Feel like George is going to pay off Jon Conningtons grey scale madness and his trauma with the bells to burn down Kingslanding probably in the revaluation that Aegon is either a blackfyre or he dies and Jon Con just loses it
Oh I didn’t think of that. True, Cersei isn’t the only one that can use the wildfire to burn KL, I could totally see Jon C doing it too. And worse, by the way we got all those cool Dornish characters just for them to die immediately, I’m now afraid for Ariane too. Even if she is not my favorite Martel I can’t afford to loose another one, lol. But one thing I’m sure Kings Landing is gonna burn long before Danny arrives, in the most epic battle between Cersei X fAegon. Or maybe one thing the show got right and the Golden Company is gonna die immediately. It would be kind of hilarious because in the books the GC is even more of a big deal and have elephants, lol!!
The whole Tyrion being the devil on Dany’s shoulder after Barristan’s (who represents the angel) death is highly possible but that also requires Dany to be completely gullible to Tyrion’s manipulation which doesn’t seem to be the case. She cannot survive this long without the dragons and being witty enough in the pit of vipers. If Sansa’s arc is about breaking free from Littlefinger’s grasp, why can’t Dany do the same with Tyrion when she seems to have more agency on her own than Sansa could ever be? Also, Dany going mad and being remembered as an evil tyrant is repeating the same plot beat as Rhaenyra. Why would Martin repeat the same storyline twice?
I’m already loving this. Danny is my favorite character. Bc of that I hate the end of the series, lol. Totally agree that Kings Landing is gonna burn in the battle between Cersei and fAegon. Everything in the books points for a Cersei being the mad queen, the wildfire is all there just waiting for her to use. And thanks so much to understanding the Song of Ice and Fire, the same way that the Dance was a battle, the song is the battle between ice (the Others) and fire (Dragons), I hate the Jons stans that think that he is the song of Ice and Fire and that is the union of ice (Lyanna) and Fire (Rhaegar), and I think that’s ridiculous. The song is the battle, is the conflict between the dead (ice) and the living (fire). Agree so much that Ice is bad in the books, but Stark fans are so obsessed with them being the “Good Guys”, TM that nothing negative can be associated with them and can’t accept that Ice is bad, lol. So happy that you too believe in the dicotomia of Ice and Fire. I do believe that Danny’s destiny in the story is the fight the Others, and yes with Jon, as the last Targaryen. But I still hope that George is gonna do it right the subversion of expectations, and in the Nyssa and Azor, he will make Jon the Nissa Nissa and Danny Azor Ahoi. That would be so amazing. I just hate that is probably gonna be her, I would love it to be him instead for a change. Is always the hero sacrificing his wife, let be the other way around this time. That’s the way to subvert expectations in an amazing way.
these videos are so entertaining. i watch you on tiktok, but this is refreshing and i never get tired. hope you do actually upload that podcast when these are loaded ❤
It’s funny because Robb Stark has exhibited more tyrannical behavior than Daenerys yet people don’t view his actions as bad. He’s admittedly worse in the show than the books, but in the show he is on a sure path to becoming a dictator. Robb always sees himself as being in the right because he thinks himself an honorable man like his father but in fact JON exhibits Ned more than all his actual children do; they all act like their irrational, paranoid and stupid mother. Cat is another one I can’t understand in the sense that people villainize Cersei but not her when they’re essentially different sides of the same coin.
I kind of hope if they have to do some sacrifice is not Danny, let Jon be the Nissa Nissa in this story. Danny is Azor Ahoi in here. She learn that only death can pay for life, she learned about sacrifice, she did that for her dragons, it was a miracle but she didn’t know that for sure, when she walked in the fire, she was sacrificing her life. Let her sacrifice Jon now, she can even be in love with him, but let him be Nissa. That’s the right way to subvert expectations.
@@talitafranco7230that prophecy is already fulfilled in book one. when dany stepped into the fire, she did so as nissa nissa, and she was reborn as azor ahai with her dragons as lightbringer.
@ttargaryen I like that too! The dragons are lightbringer is amazing. And true she already fulfilled the prophecy, and she wake the dragons from stone (sorry Mel, Stannis can sacrifice everyone else but the dragons are already wake!). Is just if they have to stab someone in the heart for a glowing sword, let it be him for a change, is always her in most stories, let be him just this once, lol!
As much as I like Danny, I do think the book is also setting her up as a villain (or at least a dark hero). Whatever happens I am sure it will be be better executed than the show
Madness means to me, that you lack reason or will refuse to hear reason, which Dany never really shows. Like even at the end, if Grey Worm disagreed with her tactics or offered her a different way, she would at least listen to him, think about it and change her plan if he proposes something better. She values and trusts his council. He is the last of her pack in the show and he matters to her. She always let her advisers have their say and even at the end, I think she would still listen to what Jon had to say, while she didn't quite agree with him in their last chat, she was still like "help me" aka I will listen to you Im sure once she had some other people in her circle, she would've atleast listened to them. You can't be declared mad after a single bad day. Madness needs to be prolonged aka we saw with her father, he had a slow descent, he got worse and worse as time went on. He didn't wake up one day after years of being fine and became mad. Calling her mad because of a single day is a bit too quick. She still has reason and can be talked down. It is also possible to change her mind or change her plans. She is not lost. Though I do think kings landing is going to burn as I think the "snow" on the throne she sees in her vision is ash. If she is the one to burn it, maybe it's because she looses control of her dragons, as the show gives her magical control over alll three, which even in universe, is impossible, like you couldn't even command someone elses dragon to set their old riders pyre alight so you had to use your own. She can barely control Drogon atm in the book. Or maybe another rider chooses to burn or looses control, as you know, three heads, three dragon riders? (But I reckon atleast 1 dragon is going to die) But it certainly wont be because of some bells and as you set, Dany sees herself in all the small folk, it goes against her character to purposely burn thousands of them for no reason, vs something accidental.
D&D said that they came up with the idea of dany & jon's final scene and how 3 plot points were oh sht moments for them. 1. sheireen burning , 2. hodor - hold the door, 3. bran being the king(not king of westeros or winterfell just the king) edit: also grrm has said the ice is jon and dany is fire so this song of ice and fire can have various meaning
It makes sense for Daenerys to burn KL if The Others have made it there, which is what I believe will happen, but after JonCon goes crazy about the bells.
I can actually see Daenerys going, well not really mad, but much more ruthless and even somewhat tyranical. Not because she does more violence than other characters, I even agree that she generally uses violence more sparingly than lots of others, but because at the end of a Dance with Dragons she seems to go in that direction - from what I remember it was quite explicit in sugesting she will start leaning into the fire and blood of her legacy much more. It really seems that after her whole time in Meereen she decided that peaceful solutions and compromises just aren't working (which I can't really blame her for, even though I've read some essay that argues that it eas actually working and it wasn't the harpies who betrayed her, but I can't remember much more about it). On top of that there is quite a big possibility that Barristan isn't gonna live that much longer and if he'll end up death than Daenerys will lose her closest advisor and there are quite a lot of people coming to her that would be eager to fill that possition - most notable Tyrion who's really in no headspase to be a good advisor for any peace-loving monarch but I don't think that's gonna stop him xD. There's also the existence of (f)Aegon and what it would mean for Dany if he would get King's Landing first (which may possibly happen). I'm not saying she will end up like that, only that I can see it happen. Honestly if we are talking about cruelty and Dany the thing that come to my mind the most is the death of Mirri Maz Duur which was very horrifying (and also a blood sacrifice to bring back the dragons, honestly I wouldn't necessary call that a miracle) - I'm not saying Dany doesn't have a right to be furious, but so did Mirri Maz Duur who was r*ped and enslaved and unlike in the show her actual involment in Drogo's death is kinda ambiguous (both Drogo and Dany do disobey her what she's told them to such a degree that I wonder if there was ever a possibility for Drogo to be saved even if Mirri was totally loyal, had no bad feelings towards anyone and was trying her totally best - which I don't think she was). But anyway while I also agree that the Others and the Long Night are the real threath and Iron Throne is just a redherring, Martin also said that he wants to end his series like LOTR - and while the biggest threath of LOTR is, of course Sauron and his Ring, after that is finished comes The Scouring of the Shire - and I kinda think that the Winterfell (and not KL) is gonna be Martin's Shire and it may be possible that Dany may play a role in that.
And that's if Jon is even a Targaryen. Jon is probably a Dayne and is meant to be the sword of the morning (it is too convenient that this honored position is still left unfilled). Make no sense for Jon to be the bastard child of a targaryen prince. It literally do nothing for the story at all. Okay Jon you are now a targaryen and we can't prove that you not a bastard, oh and now your name is Aegon like your older brother that was pretty much alive when you got that name. But here, we made a decade-long theory true, probably D&D. There is so much stuff that doesn't make sense if Jon is Targaryen, and my # 1 reason is that it makes a boring story for Jon. Let not forget about young Griff, the true fake Aegon (who is probably, maybe is Rheagar & Lyanne love child or a blackfyre). Much more interesting.
Oh, its make very much sense for jon to be Targaryen and makes no sense being dayne. Ashara dayne was clearly used as plot device to confuse readers of jon's true parentage. Characters in the book assumes that she might be the mother of jon, that ned really cheated on his wife. Its perfect excuse for ned to hide the real truth. There is so much conflict for so many characters and tg irony of circumstances where the characters stand at the final outcome of the story. I even believe that stannis and dany being suspected as azor ahai is also used as plot device to hide the real identity of Prophecised hero, and thats jon. He is where he is needed, at the wall , finding the real threat for what his ancestors (Targaryens) came to westeros at the first place and for what his other ancestors always forwarned the mankind (the starks... winter is coming is the house motto). While all other characters in this story are fighting petty wars for greed and wasting their precious human and food resources on continuous wars which they will definitely need during long night , he is arranging glass garders at the wall for upcoming battle, saving freefolks beyond the wall, trying to do the only right thing everyone must be doing. It also make so much sense that david and dane caught the right answer of his parentage and that is the reason why grrm approved for them to make his books tv series at the first place. So there is no doubt of his parentage being hidden Targaryen. Maybe he will be unsung hero all his life, and nobody left to acknowledge his right to the claim of iron throne. Maybe it wouldn't even matter at all...for the mankind would be on its worst condition, wounded by the outcome of the war against death itself. Will iron throne even be of any importance at all? Aegon the conqueror was so lost in his prophecy when he thought that wining westeros would solve the future Prophecised hero problems to unite the realm and give him any advantage. If jon and dany are two heads of the dragon from aegon's prophecy (yeah i don't believe she is THE azor ahai, she might have her part in the prophecy, a part of form of azor ahai...but not complete...and mind you.. I still like the idea of dany being azor ahai...but story wise its obviously jon...in my theory they might be two sides of same coin...or part of same being) . All these heroes (jon, dany, stark kids, maybe even Tyrion or not...) are struggling with with life conflicts which will ultimately led them to their final destination, that is war against death. And yes, it doesn't makes sense for him to be named aegon... it's just that writer of these seasons were worst than any fanfiction writer and done awful job to even "try" to write smart story. Jon being hidden member of destroyed royal dynasty fits so well... and presuming its awful just because of those untalented dumb and dumber show writers is an insult to the real author himself lol 😆
I never did understand when people told me that Daenerys had been showing signs of madness throughout the entire show. In my opinion, even the moments in the TV show, when she did something cruel, I never felt that it was because she was going mad, but simply because she was young and incredibly angry and made mistakes, and if we‘re being honest, because she isn‘t an angel of a person either. Danny isn‘t this sweet person that occasionally loses her mind and does terrible things, she is someone who is rage-filled and often proud and overreaches when things don‘t go her way, but also corrects her mistakes. Anger and even cruelty are not the same as insanity. And her burning King‘s Landing doesn‘t make sense within her character arc because, like you mentioned in this video, she only ever tries to help the unfortunate and the people who remind her of herself. And yes, sometimes she goes to far in this or overlooks something important, but any cruelty that she shows is directed towards the tyrants in a given situation, those who mistreat others. The people of Kings Landing had never given her a reason to hate them and so her burning them makes no sense. I‘m not saying that she isn‘t capable of something like that, but she would not do it without a (in her mind) proper reason. So, her burning them is completely out of character for her and could only be due to insanity, which she has never before displayed, in my opinion.
Fire are Targaryens and their dragons, the prince that was promised and Rhllor. But ice is death and the Others and the great other. It is stated over and over that ice is equal to death and evil
@@mutjedI don’t think you are correct. It has also been stated over and over again that Fire only consumes and dragons do not grow trees which could Also be interpreted as evil and George disregards mostly all the common elements of fantasy tropes for a reason. The Starks are just as synonymous with ice as the Targaryens with Fire their is no way around it.
I think the wrinkle you're missing is (F)Aegon. The fundamental problem with the show - on which we agree - is we have an insufficient demon queen arch for Dany - while she commits many horrifying acts, they can always be justified by her "savior" role/ mentality. Now imagine that Cersei is overthrown after basically blowing up the Vatican not by Dany, but by a Blackfyre pretender aka "The Mummer's Dragon" Dany was warned of in ACOK. ESPECIALLY if she commits to and loses as much as she did in the show's battle for Winterfell. Might it make sense that, after all she went through to save this country that forsook her not once, but now twice for a Mummer's Dragon, that she unleashes hellfire? I think so. Ed.: but i cannot emphasize enough how the show's climax was nonsensical gibberish. It still hurts.
Faegon has more enemies then just cerci and it's already established she will be thrown down by another queen not a king , the idea of Dany vs faegon is a fan creation with no actual basis which also has many holes and requires Dany to act out of character to work as well as unlikely situations to happen.
@thatoneblackdude3333 You do raise a fair point on the female throwing her down prophecy - though I'll note that prophecy is considered a double edge sword and I think Dany being the one (or Margaery as Cersei thinks for that matter) is a bit on the nose. Regarding Dany v Faegon though: assuming Faegon IS actually Aegon son of Rhaegar as proposed, he has a better claim to the Throne than Dany does under the precedence of the 101 AC determination as well as the effective resolution of the Dance of Dragons. If he is a Blackfyre Pretender though, then he is clearly born of the FEMALE line (since Maelys the Monstrous was the definitive end of the male line as noted multiple times in the texts), which to my read could potentially fulfill the aforementioned prophecy (through Faegon's mother producing the Mummer's Dragon). All that said, of course it's all speculation if/ until GRRM bothers to publish the alleged 1300+ page manuscript he's been working on over our literal Long Night 😂 I get you though.
@a.p.2019 that's not how that works the prophecy is about cerci not Dany so it hurting Dany doesn't make sense, and not really since cerci doesn't think it's Dany it's a self for filling prophecy. It doesn't really matter if he is or not he has no proof of being rhagars son meanwhile Dany literally has 3 dragons and rides one of them , his own men believe her sooner be Danys consort then her king regent and that's with the assumption that he is rhagars son him being a male doesn't automatically make his claim superior especially when she is objectively stronger then him and that rhagars line was disinherited , the prophecy literally says a younger more beautiful queen nowhere does it say anything about being born from a woman . I honestly don't think faegon is going to be the threat to people think he is ,he's too weak , there's zero proof he'll unite westsros given it's already broken up into different factions , he has way to many potential enemies and has to many elements going against him the idea that faegon is going to just become king and nothing will happen to him until Dany shows up is completely unrealistic and baseless people forget George literally said the second dance doesn't have to mean Dany is involved so as far as we know dany vs faegon likely won't even happen.
@@thatoneblackdude3333maybe somewhere grrm himself said that second damce of dragons will happen... blackfyre is still Targaryen blood, so might claim one of her dragons. Also, there are warning of quaith of dany getting betrayed multiple times, so whole blackfyre scheme against house Targaryen will mean ut will ultimately harm dany in some way or another. Euron/victarion greyjoy is planning to bind dragons with dragonhorn for himself, she might be forced by him to take his fleets and marry him(?), this will weaken her image in westerosi eyes...mad Targaryen bringing slaves and dothraki horde on teh ships of iron fleet ...i can already imagine varys using this as anti daenrys propaganda and trying to make people hate real targaryen and preferring aegon . Dorne is clearly on aegon's side and wants arianne martell to become his queen and the fact that they think quenten martell got killed by Daenerys( but in fact he was greedy to steal on dragon of dany in her absence by claiming it and got burnt alive by dragon) .... Arianne already thinks dany killed her brother viserys... so yeah... dany has unknowingly made a negative impression infront of westeros and its gonna build up as dance in future books.
@amyra8159 George explicitly said it doesn't mean Dany is involved which gives the implication that she isn't involved in this conflict at least not directly, it's vary unlikely faegon will claim a dragon without Danys consent as her dragons are not like the ones of old and it's also vary unlikely eurion or Victorian will succeed in claiming Danys dragons ether as we don't even know if the dragon binder actually works and if it does it likely can only be used by someone with dragon blood so ether way they won't be able to use it against her , Dany will not marry a evil tyrant like eurion so that's a baseless assumption, people in westsros already know who Dany is and most people think positively so I don't think she will gain that bad of a reputation before she arrives, dorne has not sided with faegon and as far as we know have no plans as far as we know to ally with him , a lot of your comment is filled with baseless assumptions that is not supported by the actual text.
It's a real stretch of a rational argument to say that Show Daenarys identified with slaves. She owned slaves and killed at least one after she sought revevege for being raped and enslaved. The Unsullied and Misandei were never free. They traded one master for another and were taken to fight that had nothing to do with them. It fed the stupid and harmful trope of the good slaveholder.
Calling my take wild is not a response to anything I said and quite disrespectful. Are you going to block yourself? Or just me for challenging you? Missandei and the Unsullied had no business in Westeros other than that they were commanded to be there. The freed slaves trusted both of them and they should have been left there to provide guidance and keep the peace because, unlike Daenarys, they had actually been slaves. They didn't want to free or save "those people" they wanted that for themselves. There's a huge difference.
@@Eff_It a) i very clearly am discussing the books and b) your take ignores the facts of those relationship dynamics in lieu of calling daenerys an example of the “good slaver” trope when that is objectively false and antithetical to the text. finally c) i don’t engage in good faith with people who’s takes aren’t based in the reality of the texts and instead based on their own strange headcanons. my words were intentional, i was disrespecting you lol
@rhanialam You are discussing both and conflating them. Don't lecture people about being disrespectful when you actually believe respectful discourse is a joke. I'm not ignoring anything and you're too busy thinking it's cute to contradict yourself about respect to lay out what you think I'm ignoring. You don't engage in good faith because you don't have the ability to. Don't blame me for shortcomings and rely on insulting me because you can't support your claims. I'm getting strong sense that your resistance is coming as much from your wanting to defend the good slaver/white savior trope as it you just being plain silly.
@Eff_It nah, man, your take is wild lol did you even read the books? To say they traded on Master for another is not true. She didn't beat, rape, or murder them. They also followed her willingly, after she gave them a choice, which is something a master would not do.
All that said make sense in term of the book, but we really need to separate the book from the show, according to the show her arc makes sense.. The day we start appreciating the book for what it is and the show for what it is, and stop mixing the two it’s the day we’ll start finding each other. The book as was mentioned is about “A Song of ice and fire” and the show is “A game of thrones”
@@leratomathibe1862 to be clear i hated the show ending long before i read the books haha as do a lot of people completely dissatisfied with her “madness” arc that took place over the course of an episode and a half. it was bad regardless of the books. my video is arguing against the idea that it’s an eventuality in the books. i’ve done other videos on tiktok about why her arc is dissatisfying even within the sole context of the show.
@ Not at all. It’s there for all to see for those who are paying attention and being objective. Like Varys says as long as I have my eyes I will use them.
@@savannahharville1514 If you were paying attention you would have noticed I said season 1 not episode one but, now that you mention it I never really liked the way she stepped into that bath. A little clue like it was straight from scooby doo, jenkies daphne.😂😂 And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren’t for those meddling kids.
Firsts the show vastly changes her arc even in early seasons. The Qarth storyline is completely different, she doesn’t threaten to burn the 13 at the gate, she is allowed in without issue. Also no there are no signs of madness in book one at all, like she spends half the book as a vulnerable teenage girl wedded to a Dothraki. She says nothing that wouldn’t be said but others in her position.
My Jonsa heart wants the point to be some kind of Fire and Ice flip. I mean to say: while Dany and the dragons are fire to the white walkers ice and the end to the biggest threat to mankind, I want Jon to be the fire to Sansa’s ice for the rebuild of the dynasty and moving Westeros forward.
No where in my comment did I mention a mad Dany scenario. In my head canon, she stays true to character and sacrifices herself in the long night…but sure. If you need to push an anti-Dany stance on this, go for it. I don’t like her with Jon because I appreciate the inverse of Jonsa more than the mirror of jonerys
@@Lissagalli I was under the impression you were saying that Dany and her dragons are the greatest threat to mankind along with the white walkers, implying she would go mad and need to be put down similarly to the show. Although it seems like I misread your comment. The romance preferences I'm not as concerned about because to me ASOIAF doesn't put romance front and center, and it is more about character motivations and consequences and the politics that follow. Persoanlly I don't like the idea of a ship like Jonsa or Jonerys defining characters so heavily since Dany, Tyrion, Jon, Sansa, and Arya are all awesome characters in their own right.
I swear people defending the show ending for danaerys are either trying to cope with their favorite show going full suck or they just hate emilia clarkes acting and want it to stop in some way no matter how dumb.
this.
When the show first ended, I was in full denial. I didn't want to admit to myself that my favourite show at the time went bad. ...It passed though. More distance, more context. I came out of it. Not sure what’s taking others so long. I got over the denial within a couple months lol
@@loretheinexplicable6492yeah lol me too 😂 It slowly began to dawn on me from Season 5 on but I still had so much hope for the final season and then…. THAT happened 💀
They despise the dany character, because they are uncomfortable with her being a 'girlboss'. Got was written in the 90s before buffy so the hatred for her is due to the time the show aired rather than when the book was written.
Third option. Sexism in general. “Of course the woman was gonna go crazy, it was inevitable because she got angry and did violent/bad things before!” While conveniently ignoring that literally every male character did the same.
"Every time a Targeryen is born, the gods flip a coin"
^^ That line has absolutely poisoned the perception of all show watchers regarding not only Dany but Targaryens as a whole. The purpose of that line in the books was absolutely weaponized by the showrunners with the context being completely taken away.
That and a focus on the Mad King (without a larger understanding of the history of Westeros and Targaryen rule) has ruined the potential of this as a Franchise for HBO.
I watch a lot of reaction videos to the series and it's amazing how many reactors love Dany for 7-1/2 seasons and by Season 8 have backwards rationalized that she was always on this path, while hailing show Arya, show Sansa and show Cersei as badass girlbosses. Make it make sense.
Yet you can't even blame the viewers, as the cleverness and subtlety of the early seasons (thank the source material) got thrown out the window in the later seasons. So the amateurish views of the viewers actually mirror the amateurish writing/storytelling/theme-building/plot-continuity of the showrunners (i.e. the viewers interpreted the story and characters exactly the way the writers intended). That's the saddest part. Such wasted potential for the series but for the universe and HBO. Now it's all so hollow and pointless.
Yet HOTD Season 2 is worse in it's own different/unique way.
3:40
George loves history repeating itself while everyone ignores the lessons of the past. He heavily foreshadows Jamie having to take out another mad ruler. His name is literally King Slayer. He kills mad rulers. In Maggie's prophecy, Cersei will be killed by her brother. I don't think it will be Tyrion just because she assumes it will be.
YES, I constantlyyyyy have to remind people of this. So many people don’t get it. Even with the Amethyst Queen and Bloodstone Emporer, comparisons made with Rhaenyra and Aegon during the dance of the dragons. Powerful brother kills his elder sister in pursuit of the throne, which effectively depletes their house, line and world of their magic. After the Dance there was a huge time of famine and death, after the death of the Amethyst Emperor, the long night starts. Is it really so hard to see how he constantly implements history repeating itself?
Couldn’t agree more! People forget the way of the world Ned, Robb, Arya, Jon, Tyrion all also kill people who they see as enemies or breaks their laws or for vengeance. I also hate when they bring up the Tarlys from the show cause in the north if little umber & Karstark didn’t bend the knee to Jon & Sansa what do you think would’ve happened? The show never showed her able to intentionally take innocent life. When it happened unintentionally she always made adjustments. Then she just snapped after she won? Made no sense & the worst ending ever.
I think a lot of people end up forgetting that Daenerys is so young as well like her and Sansa are almost the same age but because of their different upbringings and because Daenerys gets sexualized so early in the series and so much of Sansa is showing her naivety to things of all kinds but the Sansa haters and the Dani haters aren't ready for that conversation I don't think
so very well put. the comparing/pitting of those two against each other in particular always drives me batty as that is so not the point 😭
What I hate is how much they changed the Qarth storyline, like Danny is let into Qarth without threatening to burn them. And her lines in season 2 are why a lot of people say “look she was mad early on” even when half those lines don’t exist in the books. I hate what they did to the Qarth storyline.
Same especially they removed prophecy of three betrayals, mounts etc. They removed her tigirs fur (cause she was bald) killed her horse from drogo (only to give her another white horse in astapor lmao). Im currently readings storm of swords part 2 (readed 5 out of 6 dany chapters in SoS) and you can tell that writers didnt knew or what to do with Daenerys since start(or just hated the powerful woman)(only in the first book is Dany ch are nearly 1:1 to tv show) there isnt any chapater that they didnt rewrite. Dany story is the most changed compared to books FROM ALL CHARACTERS while she IS THE MOST IMPORTANT AND MY FAVORITE. They ignored azor ahai prophecy (it literally said that Dany will be the one who unite 7 kingdoms to fight the others but they give it to jon only for Arya to kill NK which even isnt exists in books [NK from show isnt the same who was in Bran chapter bedtime story {the one start that graped female white walker}]). Im glad that i got into books (another time because of Daenerys) because they are infinity times better.
@@Supernovice942 yes! "The Garden of Bones" 2x4 really should've been the first huge red flag of the series. Everything about Qarth in Season 2 is just wrong
YES that was so cringy 🥹 The first few bad lines of the show like why would anyone let her in after that 😭
And don’t forget the locking of certain people in a vault beimg played as a total girlboss moment when it was just soooooo cruel and weird 🥲
What confuses me is that Dany’s vision in S2 in the house of the undying supports the theory of her dying during the long night. We see her at a destroyed red keep, barely touching the throne and turning north towards the wall where she finally reunites with Drogo and Rhaegal in the night lands.
Makes me so angry. How is Dany mad for what she's done, how is Tywin not? Dany killed slavers. Tywin wiped out two houses over some debt and for making fun of his dad. Like...hello??
Maybe because Charles Dance is so charismatic and emilia clarkes acting ist pretty meh 🤣 (she can’t be fully blamed though, how could you actually make her show lines post Drogo-plot believable lol)
Tywin is mad though. A nutcase to make Margor blush.
Feel like George is going to pay off Jon Conningtons grey scale madness and his trauma with the bells to burn down Kingslanding probably in the revaluation that Aegon is either a blackfyre or he dies and Jon Con just loses it
Oh I didn’t think of that. True, Cersei isn’t the only one that can use the wildfire to burn KL, I could totally see Jon C doing it too. And worse, by the way we got all those cool Dornish characters just for them to die immediately, I’m now afraid for Ariane too. Even if she is not my favorite Martel I can’t afford to loose another one, lol. But one thing I’m sure Kings Landing is gonna burn long before Danny arrives, in the most epic battle between Cersei X fAegon. Or maybe one thing the show got right and the Golden Company is gonna die immediately. It would be kind of hilarious because in the books the GC is even more of a big deal and have elephants, lol!!
The whole Tyrion being the devil on Dany’s shoulder after Barristan’s (who represents the angel) death is highly possible but that also requires Dany to be completely gullible to Tyrion’s manipulation which doesn’t seem to be the case. She cannot survive this long without the dragons and being witty enough in the pit of vipers.
If Sansa’s arc is about breaking free from Littlefinger’s grasp, why can’t Dany do the same with Tyrion when she seems to have more agency on her own than Sansa could ever be?
Also, Dany going mad and being remembered as an evil tyrant is repeating the same plot beat as Rhaenyra. Why would Martin repeat the same storyline twice?
I’m already loving this. Danny is my favorite character. Bc of that I hate the end of the series, lol. Totally agree that Kings Landing is gonna burn in the battle between Cersei and fAegon. Everything in the books points for a Cersei being the mad queen, the wildfire is all there just waiting for her to use. And thanks so much to understanding the Song of Ice and Fire, the same way that the Dance was a battle, the song is the battle between ice (the Others) and fire (Dragons), I hate the Jons stans that think that he is the song of Ice and Fire and that is the union of ice (Lyanna) and Fire (Rhaegar), and I think that’s ridiculous. The song is the battle, is the conflict between the dead (ice) and the living (fire). Agree so much that Ice is bad in the books, but Stark fans are so obsessed with them being the “Good Guys”, TM that nothing negative can be associated with them and can’t accept that Ice is bad, lol. So happy that you too believe in the dicotomia of Ice and Fire. I do believe that Danny’s destiny in the story is the fight the Others, and yes with Jon, as the last Targaryen. But I still hope that George is gonna do it right the subversion of expectations, and in the Nyssa and Azor, he will make Jon the Nissa Nissa and Danny Azor Ahoi. That would be so amazing. I just hate that is probably gonna be her, I would love it to be him instead for a change. Is always the hero sacrificing his wife, let be the other way around this time. That’s the way to subvert expectations in an amazing way.
these videos are so entertaining. i watch you on tiktok, but this is refreshing and i never get tired. hope you do actually upload that podcast when these are loaded ❤
right now fingers crossed it’ll go up wednesday or thursday 💜
These UA-cam videos of your TikToks are amazing I like the photos in the corner to make it nice and rectangular
It’s funny because Robb Stark has exhibited more tyrannical behavior than Daenerys yet people don’t view his actions as bad. He’s admittedly worse in the show than the books, but in the show he is on a sure path to becoming a dictator. Robb always sees himself as being in the right because he thinks himself an honorable man like his father but in fact JON exhibits Ned more than all his actual children do; they all act like their irrational, paranoid and stupid mother. Cat is another one I can’t understand in the sense that people villainize Cersei but not her when they’re essentially different sides of the same coin.
Thank you for this, Dani deserves so much better than the shit the show did to her 😢
They character combined cercei and daenerys. The bells part is legit though but I won't spoil why.
Why does Jon get to be revived but dany is “destined” to die and her story end?
Didn't Dany get a miracle already? She got dragons.
I kind of hope if they have to do some sacrifice is not Danny, let Jon be the Nissa Nissa in this story. Danny is Azor Ahoi in here. She learn that only death can pay for life, she learned about sacrifice, she did that for her dragons, it was a miracle but she didn’t know that for sure, when she walked in the fire, she was sacrificing her life. Let her sacrifice Jon now, she can even be in love with him, but let him be Nissa. That’s the right way to subvert expectations.
@@talitafranco7230that prophecy is already fulfilled in book one. when dany stepped into the fire, she did so as nissa nissa, and she was reborn as azor ahai with her dragons as lightbringer.
@ttargaryen I like that too! The dragons are lightbringer is amazing. And true she already fulfilled the prophecy, and she wake the dragons from stone (sorry Mel, Stannis can sacrifice everyone else but the dragons are already wake!). Is just if they have to stab someone in the heart for a glowing sword, let it be him for a change, is always her in most stories, let be him just this once, lol!
As much as I like Danny, I do think the book is also setting her up as a villain (or at least a dark hero). Whatever happens I am sure it will be be better executed than the show
14:41 Are you really shocked that people in our world are holding the women in a story to a different standard?
@@sanctuary6689 absolutely not, but i think it’s still worth saying out loud
Omg the 30 min video. I am OBSESSED.
Madness means to me, that you lack reason or will refuse to hear reason, which Dany never really shows. Like even at the end, if Grey Worm disagreed with her tactics or offered her a different way, she would at least listen to him, think about it and change her plan if he proposes something better. She values and trusts his council. He is the last of her pack in the show and he matters to her. She always let her advisers have their say and even at the end, I think she would still listen to what Jon had to say, while she didn't quite agree with him in their last chat, she was still like "help me" aka I will listen to you Im sure once she had some other people in her circle, she would've atleast listened to them. You can't be declared mad after a single bad day. Madness needs to be prolonged aka we saw with her father, he had a slow descent, he got worse and worse as time went on. He didn't wake up one day after years of being fine and became mad.
Calling her mad because of a single day is a bit too quick. She still has reason and can be talked down. It is also possible to change her mind or change her plans. She is not lost.
Though I do think kings landing is going to burn as I think the "snow" on the throne she sees in her vision is ash. If she is the one to burn it, maybe it's because she looses control of her dragons, as the show gives her magical control over alll three, which even in universe, is impossible, like you couldn't even command someone elses dragon to set their old riders pyre alight so you had to use your own. She can barely control Drogon atm in the book. Or maybe another rider chooses to burn or looses control, as you know, three heads, three dragon riders? (But I reckon atleast 1 dragon is going to die) But it certainly wont be because of some bells and as you set, Dany sees herself in all the small folk, it goes against her character to purposely burn thousands of them for no reason, vs something accidental.
D&D said that they came up with the idea of dany & jon's final scene and how 3 plot points were oh sht moments for them.
1. sheireen burning , 2. hodor - hold the door, 3. bran being the king(not king of westeros or winterfell just the king)
edit: also grrm has said the ice is jon and dany is fire so this song of ice and fire can have various meaning
Not really George stated that ice stands for sth bad= cold = evil = white walkers = death
and fire is = warm = good = life = Daenerys with her dragons
George always say Ice as the enemy, not Jon. The Song, like the Dance is just poetic ways to describe battles and conflict, not Union!!!
@@talitafranco7230 exactly
so much truth here, bars for days
Like your takes! Hope you manage to bring more of your following here!
It makes sense for Daenerys to burn KL if The Others have made it there, which is what I believe will happen, but after JonCon goes crazy about the bells.
He gets it. Subscribes.
I can actually see Daenerys going, well not really mad, but much more ruthless and even somewhat tyranical. Not because she does more violence than other characters, I even agree that she generally uses violence more sparingly than lots of others, but because at the end of a Dance with Dragons she seems to go in that direction - from what I remember it was quite explicit in sugesting she will start leaning into the fire and blood of her legacy much more. It really seems that after her whole time in Meereen she decided that peaceful solutions and compromises just aren't working (which I can't really blame her for, even though I've read some essay that argues that it eas actually working and it wasn't the harpies who betrayed her, but I can't remember much more about it). On top of that there is quite a big possibility that Barristan isn't gonna live that much longer and if he'll end up death than Daenerys will lose her closest advisor and there are quite a lot of people coming to her that would be eager to fill that possition - most notable Tyrion who's really in no headspase to be a good advisor for any peace-loving monarch but I don't think that's gonna stop him xD. There's also the existence of (f)Aegon and what it would mean for Dany if he would get King's Landing first (which may possibly happen). I'm not saying she will end up like that, only that I can see it happen. Honestly if we are talking about cruelty and Dany the thing that come to my mind the most is the death of Mirri Maz Duur which was very horrifying (and also a blood sacrifice to bring back the dragons, honestly I wouldn't necessary call that a miracle) - I'm not saying Dany doesn't have a right to be furious, but so did Mirri Maz Duur who was r*ped and enslaved and unlike in the show her actual involment in Drogo's death is kinda ambiguous (both Drogo and Dany do disobey her what she's told them to such a degree that I wonder if there was ever a possibility for Drogo to be saved even if Mirri was totally loyal, had no bad feelings towards anyone and was trying her totally best - which I don't think she was). But anyway while I also agree that the Others and the Long Night are the real threath and Iron Throne is just a redherring, Martin also said that he wants to end his series like LOTR - and while the biggest threath of LOTR is, of course Sauron and his Ring, after that is finished comes The Scouring of the Shire - and I kinda think that the Winterfell (and not KL) is gonna be Martin's Shire and it may be possible that Dany may play a role in that.
Talk hbo HOUSE OF THE DRAGON AND HOW THEY RUINED ALL and i mean "ALL" THE CHARACTERS FROM FIRE AND BLOOD
And that's if Jon is even a Targaryen. Jon is probably a Dayne and is meant to be the sword of the morning (it is too convenient that this honored position is still left unfilled).
Make no sense for Jon to be the bastard child of a targaryen prince. It literally do nothing for the story at all.
Okay Jon you are now a targaryen and we can't prove that you not a bastard, oh and now your name is Aegon like your older brother that was pretty much alive when you got that name. But here, we made a decade-long theory true, probably D&D.
There is so much stuff that doesn't make sense if Jon is Targaryen, and my # 1 reason is that it makes a boring story for Jon.
Let not forget about young Griff, the true fake Aegon (who is probably, maybe is Rheagar & Lyanne love child or a blackfyre). Much more interesting.
Oh, its make very much sense for jon to be Targaryen and makes no sense being dayne. Ashara dayne was clearly used as plot device to confuse readers of jon's true parentage.
Characters in the book assumes that she might be the mother of jon, that ned really cheated on his wife. Its perfect excuse for ned to hide the real truth. There is so much conflict for so many characters and tg irony of circumstances where the characters stand at the final outcome of the story. I even believe that stannis and dany being suspected as azor ahai is also used as plot device to hide the real identity of Prophecised hero, and thats jon. He is where he is needed, at the wall , finding the real threat for what his ancestors (Targaryens) came to westeros at the first place and for what his other ancestors always forwarned the mankind (the starks... winter is coming is the house motto). While all other characters in this story are fighting petty wars for greed and wasting their precious human and food resources on continuous wars which they will definitely need during long night , he is arranging glass garders at the wall for upcoming battle, saving freefolks beyond the wall, trying to do the only right thing everyone must be doing.
It also make so much sense that david and dane caught the right answer of his parentage and that is the reason why grrm approved for them to make his books tv series at the first place. So there is no doubt of his parentage being hidden Targaryen. Maybe he will be unsung hero all his life, and nobody left to acknowledge his right to the claim of iron throne. Maybe it wouldn't even matter at all...for the mankind would be on its worst condition, wounded by the outcome of the war against death itself. Will iron throne even be of any importance at all?
Aegon the conqueror was so lost in his prophecy when he thought that wining westeros would solve the future Prophecised hero problems to unite the realm and give him any advantage.
If jon and dany are two heads of the dragon from aegon's prophecy (yeah i don't believe she is THE azor ahai, she might have her part in the prophecy, a part of form of azor ahai...but not complete...and mind you..
I still like the idea of dany being azor ahai...but story wise its obviously jon...in my theory they might be two sides of same coin...or part of same being) . All these heroes (jon, dany, stark kids, maybe even Tyrion or not...) are struggling with with life conflicts which will ultimately led them to their final destination, that is war against death. And yes, it doesn't makes sense for him to be named aegon... it's just that writer of these seasons were worst than any fanfiction writer and done awful job to even "try" to write smart story. Jon being hidden member of destroyed royal dynasty fits so well... and presuming its awful just because of those untalented dumb and dumber show writers is an insult to the real author himself lol 😆
I never did understand when people told me that Daenerys had been showing signs of madness throughout the entire show. In my opinion, even the moments in the TV show, when she did something cruel, I never felt that it was because she was going mad, but simply because she was young and incredibly angry and made mistakes, and if we‘re being honest, because she isn‘t an angel of a person either. Danny isn‘t this sweet person that occasionally loses her mind and does terrible things, she is someone who is rage-filled and often proud and overreaches when things don‘t go her way, but also corrects her mistakes. Anger and even cruelty are not the same as insanity.
And her burning King‘s Landing doesn‘t make sense within her character arc because, like you mentioned in this video, she only ever tries to help the unfortunate and the people who remind her of herself. And yes, sometimes she goes to far in this or overlooks something important, but any cruelty that she shows is directed towards the tyrants in a given situation, those who mistreat others. The people of Kings Landing had never given her a reason to hate them and so her burning them makes no sense. I‘m not saying that she isn‘t capable of something like that, but she would not do it without a (in her mind) proper reason.
So, her burning them is completely out of character for her and could only be due to insanity, which she has never before displayed, in my opinion.
I have recently come to the idea that Ice = Starks and Fire = Targaryens. So, The Story of Starks and Targaryens.
Fire are Targaryens and their dragons, the prince that was promised and Rhllor. But ice is death and the Others and the great other. It is stated over and over that ice is equal to death and evil
I don't think Starks are Ice
Ice is most definitely The Starks.
@@mutjedI don’t think you are correct. It has also been stated over and over again that Fire only consumes and dragons do not grow trees which could Also be interpreted as evil and George disregards mostly all the common elements of fantasy tropes for a reason. The Starks are just as synonymous with ice as the Targaryens with Fire their is no way around it.
@@Iruma366 not really, Ice is Death
I think the wrinkle you're missing is (F)Aegon. The fundamental problem with the show - on which we agree - is we have an insufficient demon queen arch for Dany - while she commits many horrifying acts, they can always be justified by her "savior" role/ mentality.
Now imagine that Cersei is overthrown after basically blowing up the Vatican not by Dany, but by a Blackfyre pretender aka "The Mummer's Dragon" Dany was warned of in ACOK.
ESPECIALLY if she commits to and loses as much as she did in the show's battle for Winterfell.
Might it make sense that, after all she went through to save this country that forsook her not once, but now twice for a Mummer's Dragon, that she unleashes hellfire?
I think so.
Ed.: but i cannot emphasize enough how the show's climax was nonsensical gibberish. It still hurts.
Faegon has more enemies then just cerci and it's already established she will be thrown down by another queen not a king , the idea of Dany vs faegon is a fan creation with no actual basis which also has many holes and requires Dany to act out of character to work as well as unlikely situations to happen.
@thatoneblackdude3333 You do raise a fair point on the female throwing her down prophecy - though I'll note that prophecy is considered a double edge sword and I think Dany being the one (or Margaery as Cersei thinks for that matter) is a bit on the nose.
Regarding Dany v Faegon though: assuming Faegon IS actually Aegon son of Rhaegar as proposed, he has a better claim to the Throne than Dany does under the precedence of the 101 AC determination as well as the effective resolution of the Dance of Dragons. If he is a Blackfyre Pretender though, then he is clearly born of the FEMALE line (since Maelys the Monstrous was the definitive end of the male line as noted multiple times in the texts), which to my read could potentially fulfill the aforementioned prophecy (through Faegon's mother producing the Mummer's Dragon).
All that said, of course it's all speculation if/ until GRRM bothers to publish the alleged 1300+ page manuscript he's been working on over our literal Long Night 😂
I get you though.
@a.p.2019 that's not how that works the prophecy is about cerci not Dany so it hurting Dany doesn't make sense, and not really since cerci doesn't think it's Dany it's a self for filling prophecy.
It doesn't really matter if he is or not he has no proof of being rhagars son meanwhile Dany literally has 3 dragons and rides one of them , his own men believe her sooner be Danys consort then her king regent and that's with the assumption that he is rhagars son him being a male doesn't automatically make his claim superior especially when she is objectively stronger then him and that rhagars line was disinherited , the prophecy literally says a younger more beautiful queen nowhere does it say anything about being born from a woman .
I honestly don't think faegon is going to be the threat to people think he is ,he's too weak , there's zero proof he'll unite westsros given it's already broken up into different factions , he has way to many potential enemies and has to many elements going against him the idea that faegon is going to just become king and nothing will happen to him until Dany shows up is completely unrealistic and baseless people forget George literally said the second dance doesn't have to mean Dany is involved so as far as we know dany vs faegon likely won't even happen.
@@thatoneblackdude3333maybe somewhere grrm himself said that second damce of dragons will happen... blackfyre is still Targaryen blood, so might claim one of her dragons. Also, there are warning of quaith of dany getting betrayed multiple times, so whole blackfyre scheme against house Targaryen will mean ut will ultimately harm dany in some way or another. Euron/victarion greyjoy is planning to bind dragons with dragonhorn for himself, she might be forced by him to take his fleets and marry him(?), this will weaken her image in westerosi eyes...mad Targaryen bringing slaves and dothraki horde on teh ships of iron fleet ...i can already imagine varys using this as anti daenrys propaganda and trying to make people hate real targaryen and preferring aegon . Dorne is clearly on aegon's side and wants arianne martell to become his queen and the fact that they think quenten martell got killed by Daenerys( but in fact he was greedy to steal on dragon of dany in her absence by claiming it and got burnt alive by dragon) .... Arianne already thinks dany killed her brother viserys... so yeah... dany has unknowingly made a negative impression infront of westeros and its gonna build up as dance in future books.
@amyra8159 George explicitly said it doesn't mean Dany is involved which gives the implication that she isn't involved in this conflict at least not directly, it's vary unlikely faegon will claim a dragon without Danys consent as her dragons are not like the ones of old and it's also vary unlikely eurion or Victorian will succeed in claiming Danys dragons ether as we don't even know if the dragon binder actually works and if it does it likely can only be used by someone with dragon blood so ether way they won't be able to use it against her , Dany will not marry a evil tyrant like eurion so that's a baseless assumption, people in westsros already know who Dany is and most people think positively so I don't think she will gain that bad of a reputation before she arrives, dorne has not sided with faegon and as far as we know have no plans as far as we know to ally with him , a lot of your comment is filled with baseless assumptions that is not supported by the actual text.
It's a real stretch of a rational argument to say that Show Daenarys identified with slaves. She owned slaves and killed at least one after she sought revevege for being raped and enslaved. The Unsullied and Misandei were never free. They traded one master for another and were taken to fight that had nothing to do with them. It fed the stupid and harmful trope of the good slaveholder.
@@Eff_It this is a wild take with a tangential relation to the text at best.
Calling my take wild is not a response to anything I said and quite disrespectful. Are you going to block yourself? Or just me for challenging you?
Missandei and the Unsullied had no business in Westeros other than that they were commanded to be there. The freed slaves trusted both of them and they should have been left there to provide guidance and keep the peace because, unlike Daenarys, they had actually been slaves. They didn't want to free or save "those people" they wanted that for themselves. There's a huge difference.
@@Eff_It a) i very clearly am discussing the books and b) your take ignores the facts of those relationship dynamics in lieu of calling daenerys an example of the “good slaver” trope when that is objectively false and antithetical to the text. finally c) i don’t engage in good faith with people who’s takes aren’t based in the reality of the texts and instead based on their own strange headcanons. my words were intentional, i was disrespecting you lol
@rhanialam You are discussing both and conflating them. Don't lecture people about being disrespectful when you actually believe respectful discourse is a joke. I'm not ignoring anything and you're too busy thinking it's cute to contradict yourself about respect to lay out what you think I'm ignoring. You don't engage in good faith because you don't have the ability to. Don't blame me for shortcomings and rely on insulting me because you can't support your claims.
I'm getting strong sense that your resistance is coming as much from your wanting to defend the good slaver/white savior trope as it you just being plain silly.
@Eff_It nah, man, your take is wild lol did you even read the books? To say they traded on Master for another is not true. She didn't beat, rape, or murder them. They also followed her willingly, after she gave them a choice, which is something a master would not do.
All that said make sense in term of the book, but we really need to separate the book from the show, according to the show her arc makes sense.. The day we start appreciating the book for what it is and the show for what it is, and stop mixing the two it’s the day we’ll start finding each other. The book as was mentioned is about “A Song of ice and fire” and the show is “A game of thrones”
@@leratomathibe1862 to be clear i hated the show ending long before i read the books haha as do a lot of people completely dissatisfied with her “madness” arc that took place over the course of an episode and a half. it was bad regardless of the books. my video is arguing against the idea that it’s an eventuality in the books. i’ve done other videos on tiktok about why her arc is dissatisfying even within the sole context of the show.
🎉
Sounds like a lotta cope to me
damn, defaultuser000001 doesn’t approve 😭 it’s over yall
I could see the merit in both but,I still think Dany going mad is the most likely outcome. I clocked her in book 1 and season 1.
You think you clocked. You don’t know. So no you didn’t “clock” you’re still assuming.
@ Not at all. It’s there for all to see for those who are paying attention and being objective. Like Varys says as long as I have my eyes I will use them.
What signs in season 1 ep 1 gave the impression to you that she was "mad"
@@savannahharville1514 If you were paying attention you would have noticed I said season 1 not episode one but, now that you mention it I never really liked the way she stepped into that bath. A little clue like it was straight from scooby doo, jenkies daphne.😂😂 And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren’t for those meddling kids.
Firsts the show vastly changes her arc even in early seasons. The Qarth storyline is completely different, she doesn’t threaten to burn the 13 at the gate, she is allowed in without issue. Also no there are no signs of madness in book one at all, like she spends half the book as a vulnerable teenage girl wedded to a Dothraki. She says nothing that wouldn’t be said but others in her position.
My Jonsa heart wants the point to be some kind of Fire and Ice flip. I mean to say: while Dany and the dragons are fire to the white walkers ice and the end to the biggest threat to mankind, I want Jon to be the fire to Sansa’s ice for the rebuild of the dynasty and moving Westeros forward.
So you want Dany to go mad for the sake of a Jonsa relationship rather than anything relevent to Daenerys' character?
No where in my comment did I mention a mad Dany scenario. In my head canon, she stays true to character and sacrifices herself in the long night…but sure. If you need to push an anti-Dany stance on this, go for it. I don’t like her with Jon because I appreciate the inverse of Jonsa more than the mirror of jonerys
@@Lissagalli I was under the impression you were saying that Dany and her dragons are the greatest threat to mankind along with the white walkers, implying she would go mad and need to be put down similarly to the show. Although it seems like I misread your comment. The romance preferences I'm not as concerned about because to me ASOIAF doesn't put romance front and center, and it is more about character motivations and consequences and the politics that follow. Persoanlly I don't like the idea of a ship like Jonsa or Jonerys defining characters so heavily since Dany, Tyrion, Jon, Sansa, and Arya are all awesome characters in their own right.