Got to agree, especially about the music industry, I’ve been a pro drummer for over 20 years, people assume to do this I must play drums on top 10 artists but to do this I actually have a home recording/media studio, a drumline, 2 UA-cam channels, 2 books, a drum App, An online course, a covers band, a corporate led drumming troupe, teach drums and say ‘yes’ to gigs of all types. I’d love to be able to just play few tours each year to pay the bills but until then follow Andy’s advice! P.s 20 of years ago I studied with Andy for a little while and one time he advised I make a 10 year plan to become a pro drummer! If his history is anything to go off you should trust his upcoming content.
Yep - imagine indeed. What a poignant observation. I think this is contributing to the insipid dumbing down of EVERYTHING in the 'arts' today, in place of makin a buck = the difficulty and attention span - or lack there of, for the 'freedom' of the performing arts becoming a waist of time = no dosh to be made = what's the point! But who can blame them = as Andy has eluded to us all - "click bait" stuff is saturating EVERYTHING, giving no one any opportunity to stop, and LISTEN. As a life long active (sometimes) creative musician (drums), born 1957, first gig 1970. Im now in the throws of scaling back, focusing on being an 'entertainer', where i thoroughly enjoy doing the odd gig, with musicians who care, wana have fun, playing to an audience that cares, and want to have fun too....hard to find - particularly involving zero drugs, other than 'good' music.... but their there - specially for the Latin Jazz/Bosa approach...such a joyful genre to play, for the band - AND audience ! Cheers all, Paul.
100%. It might be also worth mentioning that some people just make music without seeking a reward, and that should be encouraged. I just do it for the hell of it. I’ve got 7 albums on Spotify, no band camp or anything. I just to do it because I can and I want to. But the advise you give out here in this video is bang on. The music business is over as was.
I can absolutely confirm what you said. If you are not Ed Sheeran or Beyoncé you must do a "normal" job too to earn a living. I am lucky that I can work as an audio engineer and radio producer so my daytime job has at least something to do with music. I have an idea: Let's build our own open source record label to rebuild the music industry! Or: What about uploading our songs here? So we can get the others' opinions about our music.
This was a great video and shame on the audience for only a little over 700 likes. This old man(b9/18/59) loves both the informative and the rants. I also like Rick Beato but you have your style, he has his. You both have equal merit. Thank you
Thank you, Andy!! I (and many musicians) didn't want to hear this, but needed to!! It's sad what happened to the music industry. Hopefully things will change, or a new market will arise somehow.
All this may be true, but from a channel that has hitherto been dedicated to prog and jazz, the question is, if you're expertise is now media of which music is one element, how do you develop the focus to get good enough to produce great music? John McLaughlin never said, "the visuals are more important than the music". Music has always developed under patronage in which musicians were not much more than servants. Once it was the aristocracy. In the 20th century it was the record industry. And then under the baby boomer interest in liberative philosophy, musicians became heroes and coined it in. Maybe its the era of "musician" as a viable hero journey that is coming to an end, to be replaced with "content creator " exercising a much broader range of skills. But with that will come dilution. There is something missing as we go forward in this commercial mindset and I think its the question of what is music's role in society? What does it do? If we understand that better then perhaps the younger generation can promote our humanity in the process.
Agreed to all you said. Don't forget there is a huge branch of the industry that produces instruments. Not just amps and highly technical electronics, but for instance intricately crafted woodwind and brass instruments that still excite the auditory organs of vast numbers. I would say the prime purpose is to educate young people to make music in any form, melodic choral and rhythmic, before they line up as slaves to particular genres.
Thank you very much for posting this ! In solidarity with the fighters for peace, love, justice & truth we express our feelings with music on our channel. Greetings from Germany ... CLUB OF THE UNCENSORED POETS
Why give it up, though? If it makes you happy and satisfies some kind of creative Jones you have, what difference does it make whether or not it's on the internet? Besides, if you've gone to the trouble to create and record music, going to the trouble of posting it on the internet and hyping it a bit with social media will be the easy part...
I like the advice. Exactly right and timely. Steve Vai asked Frank Zappa in the The 1970's how to make a living with music? Frank responded " two words".... "Publishing CORPORATION" Steve Vai said over his lifetime it has given him a comfortable income over TIME his entire life. With the aforementioned advice..
The old music biz has mostly gone yes - but even back in the 80s/90s they were more likely to take all the fun out of doing music than anything else anyway.... but I'd say the live scene is actually coming back to life a bit - if you have a decent tight band playing a good set you can make reasonable money & get regular gigs apparently... (touch wood!) We've found people are more up for decent live music than they have been for many years - & very open to good original material too... Now there's no music bizz (esp. post Diddy!) we're free to make whatever we songs/albums we want - (& maybe put em on flashdrives instead of CDs) - free to use producers/production that doesn't make everything sound exactly the same or awful - free to make music for the real & original reason - it's so much fun for the giver & the receiver (along with all the cathartic self-expression & soul expansion aspects of course).... Love&Peace ua-cam.com/video/Htl5yqTK4wg/v-deo.html
One solution is to bypass learning music and working in a band and go directly into Tee shirt sales. I worked as a printer and made Tee shirts of fictitious Bands and sold them.
Why not just start a fresh musical life, back to the free roots? Write your own songs, play at free gigs, create your own merch table, tell your own story, be original, be free, go on your own adventure in life, make your own life.., who needs them now!
Thank you soo much for all you do for our creative community!! Thank you for your support, love, inspiration, intelligence… thank you for giving a Damn !!! Bless your heart Andy
The problem with being a content creator is that it will eventually turn you into a creep unless you're very savvy. Chasing clicks and gaming algorithms will drive a person crazy.
Great video, but one thing Andy hasn't said is that if you want to make a living as a player (as opposed to a singer or songwriter) you can absolutely still do it. He quite rightly said there are no "session musicians" any more. Most people these days don't know what that term used to mean. But there are lots of successful freelance players.You just have to have the right skills. Andy is also right that a lot of music colleges are not going to to give you those skills as a core part of their offering.
This is what I have been trying to tell the musicians I know and have been working with for some time now. Not many listened. See you on patreon I hope.
Came to this sticking point recently having written and recorded a fair bit after years of doing nothing musically. The initial aim was to have enough material to get on the bill at a Celtic festival in Europe but making enough to support a meagre living would be a dream. Been thinking hard and came to much the same conclusions and avenues as yourself but appreciate you clarifying and articulating them as well as hints that never clicked before. Great content, cheers bud
Great video Andy, I shall be sharing this with my students. Back in the late 80s I realised I was not going to be a rock star and diversified into teaching guitar. I still get to play every now and then but fell in love with teaching. I was following advice back then, which was already suggesting the industry was changing. That Strat leaning against a radiator is making me nervous!
One of the stupidest things I didn't do was not learn to play all instruments like guitar and keyboards I was a drummer and a vocalist if I would have done that I would not have had to put with narcissistic assholes and just did myself
@AdrianJeffreys-fj2fv I pretty much only play drums, which can be pretty limiting in a creative sense if you aren't able to collaborate with other players who fit your vibe and appreciate your contributions. Fortunately, I've found that in the band that I'm currently in, where we create our own original music and all contribute to the sound of it. I've certainly gone through periods where I wasn't finding players that I felt like I really connected with, which was frustrating and either meant that I was playing music that I didn't really love or not playing at all...
@aaronhayman8558 yeah I don't compromise I was the lyrists and music arranger being the vocalist I had to be able to sing over the riffs and I usually wrote the choruses. I've always played progressive neo classical Gothic metal and that's a whole different problem but mainly the musicians were complete dicks and I don't put up with ignorant shit
I only have one song left to write and then it’s time to record. No music videos. Only playthrus which will feature new improvised solos. I don’t care what random people want. I’m going to do things my way and the world is going to have no choice but to like it.
This is really helpful. Was involved in a huge film production of a music video for one of my bands singles and chatted to the stylist we hired (iow asked really nicely to do it for free cos of the limited budget) who had plenty of thoughts on media/contentification of art. We can’t really escape the need to post music as content pieces, ideally doing something like 3 posts a day on tik tok (according to her)- but I’m worried this over emphasis defeats the live playing aspect. Can you really call yourself a musician if most of your work is in a bedroom playing to a click track? and not forging long term partnerships with local cats? The later leads to nowhere financially, but is so vital to my craft as a bassist. I want to spend most of my time getting better, not thinking about how to become the next Dave50whatever his name was again
Good video. I'd go a step further and encourage people to really think about how much money they need to live the life they want. What's the average salary in the city you live? Do you want to buy a house one day, have a partner, send your kids to a good school, have some money to retire, etc, etc? There's many places experiencing a cost of living crisis at the moment, everything has become very expensive!... And in this context to charge $5 per person for a lot of work on your behalf with absolutely no guarantees... Sheesh. Remember, some older youtubers (No offense Andy) probably achieved a degree of financial security before they started using youtube and Patreon. I would never discourage an artist from pursuing a dream, but you should go in clear-eyed.
So you really do have to sell your soul for rock and roll, at least if you want to make a living out of it. But hasn't that always been the case, on way or another? Music is the fun stuff for me, I don't want to kill that by making it part of the daily grind.
This video is a great continuation of the one you posted on patreon the other day about forgetting the old ways of progression in music and using new tactics. Edit: the recent video on Andy's patreon is viewable by all. It's free for everyone. I thought I'd mention that so that people don't think that I'm promoting paid content even though you should contribute to Andy.
You've got it. Sporify and Apple Music are fine for amateurs who just want to write songs and send links to their friends but they are nightmares for professional musicians who need to earn a living from their craft.
Yeah. To me as both an artist and a consumer, this is just not my world any more. Like, I just want to do the thing I'm good at and put out albums. I can't imagine why anyone would for instance want to watch me streaming content on UA-cam or Patrion or whatever. Not decrying what Andy does because he understands it and he's got a flare for it. I love watching engaging speakers, but that's not what I'm good at. Then there's the patrion thing. I support threee or four people on Patrion. But if I chose to support everyone who's content I enjoy, I'd be bloody skint and I probably wouldn't be able to actually keep up with all the content anyway. I mean, Andy's got a video out every day. I can barely keep up with him. Imagine if all our favourite musicians were putting out hours of patrion content for us to watch. No! By and large, I want to hear their albums, when they've taken the time and skill to make them. That's what I have always thought was important. I don't want to be paying 3 or 4 quid a month to a a couple of dozen musicians, for a bunch of extra hipe and content that there's no way I'll keep up with. LOL. I just don't get the way things are going. But sadly, Andy appears to be spot on.
@@PeterCamberwick I couldn't agree with you more Peter. In order to be a good UA-camr, you need to put out content all the time, and I admire those who do it, but are you going to have any time to thoughtfully write songs and make engaging recordings of them. Honestly, I can't think of any artist that does that.
I think you're correct, but sadly this means that I have to stop doing the thing I can actually do and am reasonably good at, in order to spend time doing the bit I hate and am crap at. ....... I think I'll just fizzle out quietly in a corner. 😪
I’ve been gigging since the early 80s but then there were plenty of venues who wanted live music, I had the naivety and self belief of youth and was prepared to put up with all manner of shitty conditions to realise the dream and play what I wanted. Following a redundancy about 10 years ago, the reality of doing it to make a living was very different - slogging it out in rough-arsed pubs in provincial towns playing music I hated to drunks keen for a dance and a fight - and nearly made me put my guitar away for good. Luckily, I can do it for fun again but I’ve seen some brilliant musicians start to hate their music - esp. jazzers working on cruise ships forced to play “Moon River” and other middle-of-the-road stuff. I suppose if you get to do what you love for a living then you are part of a tiny privileged group while most of us wind up doing the least awful option.
I appreciate and honor any musician who can make a living from the music… Whatever combination of Teaching and gigging and weddings, etc. that they have to do. Of course the downside of it is that it just becomes another job or series of jobs… Still, I think it’s an accomplishment what is the other thing… The magic of the music… The spark, the connection between you and the music… And between you and the audience, that’s the magic
I think it's always been like this. This is just focusing on self promotion. The various methods may change but when I was playing regularly every week it was mainly to pay off equipment deals to get a good sound and transport. In the ''music business'' you're either very successful and over paid or struggling, ripped off and starving there doesn't seem to be a middle ground.
I left England at 19 to live in Ayia Napa and have made a decent living playing covers in bars, hotels and at corporate gigs since 2008. Even at that age I realised the dream of being in a real band was a dead idea and it's just something I've never thought about with any seriousness.
Don't forget the most important band lesson. No matter what you do you will never get four or five guys to stay together for any real length of time. The better you feel about it, the more painful it is when your bass player or key player quits and there aren't any replacements to be had. I spent way too much time rehearsing and teaching people songs only to have them split and take what I taught them elsewhere. So much time I could have been hanging out with my son that I spent in a basement with a bunch of dumbasses with no real love of making music. I regret every minute of it. You can't get it back. I would love to do what Andy is saying, but I will do it solo with no one pointing a finger saying "I don't want to do that".
That is simply not true - I’ve been on UA-cam since 2007 (not just this channel) and the opportunity for small channels is currently better than it ever has been in the past. I’ve even stopped doing some of my bigger channels to make new ones because they work better and can get off the ground quicker.
I just came up with a world record level best idea ever (first one this week, too) that you're welcome to use, whoever you are (Andy's probably too busy with his Patreon to be able to invest the time it would take). It's this *Toby the Vampire Tick* (all about this tick that turns into a vampire, so you'd probably need to do a cartoon, since ticks are hard to train as actors). He's just minding his own business and then he gets this impulse to crawl up a grass stalk, and lie in ambush for a victim. Vampires are very popular these days, and have been so for at least 30 years. You can't go wrong with a vampire product. (But be quick. I made brief mention of the idea on a comment to a Charismatic Voice video a few minutes ago, so there will be thousands of people pouncing on the idea by the time you get a hold of it.) And listen to Andy. Sounds like he's figured out how things work (apart from failing to see the incredible opportunity the Vampire Tick idea has.)
Great video. I wonder if any “content” Will be remembered in 50 years the same way we look at albums from the 70s. Maybe kids in 2070 will be wearing Rick Beato T-shirts. Or have we lost the “magic”?
Wait a minute. I'm taking your theory down. First of all, having fun from working hard and making very good living out of it is also a possibility that exists in many people life including full time musicians. That's for your "theory". The fact that some succeed and some do not is a different thing at all. Most people minds are leaning into the perception of how things were in their past, and that's the main blocker. They do not adjust which is understandable. That's including the music industry. 40 years ago most of us didn't had the freedom of recording and filming ourselves at home in a good quality. Today, all we need is a decent computer with a graphic card and external audio card with many pro software including plugins that are free to make a full album that sound's very good. 4k smartphones can be used to make clips. Now, If the album will be a commercial success, that's a different story because back then, a musician made concerts to sell an album. Today, a musician make Albums to sell a concert and if that is not the mindset, it better become one Live concerts with getting paid are the way to make a living today, and a musician better have at least three of them every week, and it can be fun. Very simple.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Still, you present it as an issue, which is not. Now, If you want a real issue, wait until the AI with music abilities will be implanted on robots that can give you both Suno and udio performances and doing so live because it is coming, and very fast. Then, it is party time for everyone 😉
There's still a music industry. All of the people composing music for films are in the "music industry". All of the people composing music for video games, jingles, stock broadcast libraries etc. are in the "music industry". All of the people going out and playing 6 month resort gigs or cruise ship gigs are in the music industry. Yes, no more Bay City Rollers. That was never a great deal anyway.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer True, in a sense, and I am with you on the points you make in the vid (great stream of consciousness approach) but since the sad demise of our band in NZ in 1980 after several years of critical acclaim (and an album of originals with Polygram) fortune smiled and my musical partner and I were asked to write a soundtrack for a TV Drama. Went well and suddenly a whole lot of TV Commercials followed (all the directors and editors in Auckland knew each other) and in '82 we decamped to Hong Kong to try to crack the frantic movie biz here. Again - a few movies but LOTS of TV Commercials that resulted in us having studios in HK, Singapore & Shanghai thru the '90s and '00s. The reason I say all this for anyone who may have even read this far is that on the back of the $$ we earned doing jingles and ads we were able to re-invest in studios AND 'doing our own stuff'. CDs are more or less gone now but we leveraged ad clients (fashion, hip bars and 'theme' restaurants etc) to consider commissioning CDs of original music to give to their VIPs and sell in the shops and we did one off distribution deals with some of the majors to get into record shops. We haven't been able to 'retire and collect the royalties' by any means but I would stress that if you are writing and releasing stuff from even a modest home set-up - Logic and a few good plug-ins - that looking beyond just releasing a song or album, that researching ad agencies, indie film-makers, documentary makers etc. is worth a shot. And, yes, these days most of them simply license from 'Production Music Library' companies for peanuts but that's also another angle - bang together some 60 / 30 / 20 / 15 second mixes of a track, get a dozen or two together and approach these companies - we licensed 'Asian Themed' tracks drawing on friends from the cities mentioned above . . . . think creatively, for sure that is essential, but think LATERALLY - where does music play an 'unseen' part beyond gigs and record releases? It's tough out there but there's always hop! Here endeth the lesson and sorry for being a bore! Cheers 😅
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer The composition of music is the music industry. John Williams, film composer is a musician. I don't need anything explained, I have worked in the music industry for 35 years.
@@corybarnes2341 I understand your point but nobody is sending a demo tape of tunes off to Pixar in the hope that a producer will want to use your music in a film. You get commissioned to write music for movies or TV, that means you already have to be in 'the industry' for people in those mediums to know who you are. For most people the 'recording industry' is synonymous with the 'music industry' and is probably a better term for what Andy is talking about.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer The pubishing department at EMI spent most of their energy and time trying to place songs into video games, movies, televsion shows and add campaigns. I one was involved in a project where a video game company paid $500,000 to use a famous prog rock bands song in their commercial not even in the actual game. That's called business. This stuff you talk about is not business.
I am writing songs in the expectation they will never be heard. I played in talented bands with epic song writers. And the pattern is “it’s all over”. This advice, be a UA-camR or social media, it’s pointless. There is no route, no model, no market. Do it because you love it but FFS don’t expect a living.
Good luck to you Andy. Love your channel. I’ll keep watching 👀. Jaded old gits like me love music and hate what’s happened to its economics and hate social media still more
Whilst agreeing that selling music in the form of records, cds etc is dead, thanks to free streaming/downloading; there's still money to be made gigging and selling merchandise at those gigs.
Is selling vinyl at live shows all that’s left? Just asking because I have no skills except buying nice stereo gear and loving records, but I’m over a certain age so I don’t matter anymore
Very good vid Andy, not for me I don't want to be a success. Found my mind wandering tho.... Best wig in music? Sinatra and Elton John have to be up there.
Good advice, however I've noticed the quality of fans at gigs is far higher than online. When I do gigs I'm getting passionate fans who often happen to be venue owners, muso's, etc... Online, at the moment, I'm just wasting my time with idiots, let's not beat about the bush. I think the real message is quality not quantity. I hope to work with a mentor soon to enact the strategies you mention (and more) but in an effort to find and build a community of quality listeners. Not Instagram dross. And also gigs and rehersal spaces are means to build networks, as you well know. This again is a shortcut to find that quality base. It all comes back to finding the tribe, the quality people and trying to bypass the mob as much as possible. And I suspect public radio has a role still to play for this very reason. If music is a hobby, where do the hobbyists hang out? I think I've answered that.
I feel that if you're really a creative type with a passion for music, you're actually better off not pursuing music as a profession. Get some kind of day job, which will finance your life and allow you to follow your muse playing music. If you're serious enough about playing music and put a lot of energy into it there's always a chance that it may be something that captures the public's imagination, that you can make a good profit from. Even if that never happens, though, there's a joy that comes from playing exactly the kind of music that you want and not having to worry about making money.
I have been a pro musician for 30 years, I earn my living making music, i always have. I tried to get this across on this video but it seems the mindset is really fixed.
The music industry is in the doldrums now because popular music is crap. What everyone on here likes is niche music.Producers are not interested in Jazz or Folk for instance,.. They want quick buck so they instinctively appeal to tribal elements with little or no ear. Adolescent gils being a good example. What we need to bolster are small to middling venues where lesser known bands have a chance to perform. Forget pubs. They were the haunt of boozers. These days no one can afford to drink pints like they used to. I actually worry about the future of orchestral music. You might scorn, but no jazz officianado has got that way by ignoring classical music. Virtually all the prog and folk bands were lovers of better known classics. I am really heartened that young musicians like Anna Lapwood is popularising choral music for young women. The ethereal harmonising and superb accoustics is lovely and an intiodote to thrash metal! The music industry is in a crisis of its own making. It is at the end of the road for instant monetising. It needs to recognise the huge variety and appeal of genres and more clever ways of marketing them.
Interesting perspective on the evolution of the delivery of music to the masses and the current methods for receiving compensation for that ability. In addition to everything you spoke about you also have to put in the time, energy and money to be expert on your specific instrument be it guitar, drums, voice, saxophone etc.
I don't know why there is this big deal about making a living with music.Why do you need to do that? Whats making a living from music got to do with the quality of the music you make? Absolutely nothing.... Whats wrong with getting a decent job as an accountant/teacher/insurance salesman etc so that you are free to make the music you love and are able to afford to pay to make your own cds and promote them.if you have talent enjoy some success with that...Why play in dingy pubs for crap money every week as i see many jazz musicians do?? -- its a wretched life unless you really do need that ego massage way more than you care to admit
Some people simply suck at "real" jobs. 😭 There are various reasons for that. Sometimes cognitive or psychological differences. Sometimes it's more of a _spiritual_ difference. Sometimes the art is their true inescapable calling.
OK, fine, true, but lets also remember that lots of musicians did not give a f. about the music industry when it existed. There is tons of unknown bands, most of them local bands, especially during the punk and hardcore era, that pushed the music forward, each pushing the giant rock an inch forward. Some might not even call them musicians, but who cares. I have more respect for those unknown or lesser knows bands most of which didn't even get an indie record deal, than those who played by the industry's rules and earned recognition.
This is useful content. You are on to something here.
Thank you Bill
Got to agree, especially about the music industry, I’ve been a pro drummer for over 20 years, people assume to do this I must play drums on top 10 artists but to do this I actually have a home recording/media studio, a drumline, 2 UA-cam channels, 2 books, a drum App, An online course, a covers band, a corporate led drumming troupe, teach drums and say ‘yes’ to gigs of all types. I’d love to be able to just play few tours each year to pay the bills but until then follow Andy’s advice!
P.s 20 of years ago I studied with Andy for a little while and one time he advised I make a 10 year plan to become a pro drummer! If his history is anything to go off you should trust his upcoming content.
Hi Geoff..get me on your channel!!!
Can you image Miles Davis having to be worried about all this.
Yep - imagine indeed. What a poignant observation. I think this is contributing to the insipid dumbing down of EVERYTHING in the 'arts' today, in place of makin a buck = the difficulty and attention span - or lack there of, for the 'freedom' of the performing arts becoming a waist of time = no dosh to be made = what's the point! But who can blame them = as Andy has eluded to us all - "click bait" stuff is saturating EVERYTHING, giving no one any opportunity to stop, and LISTEN. As a life long active (sometimes) creative musician (drums), born 1957, first gig 1970. Im now in the throws of scaling back, focusing on being an 'entertainer', where i thoroughly enjoy doing the odd gig, with musicians who care, wana have fun, playing to an audience that cares, and want to have fun too....hard to find - particularly involving zero drugs, other than 'good' music....
but their there - specially for the Latin Jazz/Bosa approach...such a joyful genre to play, for the band - AND audience !
Cheers all, Paul.
''Ah, music! What a beautiful art! But what a wretched profession!” - Georges Bizet.
100%. It might be also worth mentioning that some people just make music without seeking a reward, and that should be encouraged. I just do it for the hell of it. I’ve got 7 albums on Spotify, no band camp or anything. I just to do it because I can and I want to. But the advise you give out here in this video is bang on. The music business is over as was.
Try Bandcamp, it can be very rewarding
I can absolutely confirm what you said.
If you are not Ed Sheeran or Beyoncé you must do a "normal" job too to earn a living.
I am lucky that I can work as an audio engineer and radio producer so my daytime job has at least something to do with music.
I have an idea: Let's build our own open source record label to rebuild the music industry!
Or: What about uploading our songs here? So we can get the others' opinions about our music.
This was a great video and shame on the audience for only a little over 700 likes. This old man(b9/18/59) loves both the informative and the rants. I also like Rick Beato but you have your style, he has his. You both have equal merit. Thank you
Great Video Andy !
I love making and playing music, and am fortunate that I can do this without needing it to be a source of income.
This was bloody awesome, Andy. I pounded my desk in agreement several times.
Thank you, Andy!! I (and many musicians) didn't want to hear this, but needed to!! It's sad what happened to the music industry. Hopefully things will change, or a new market will arise somehow.
All this may be true, but from a channel that has hitherto been dedicated to prog and jazz, the question is, if you're expertise is now media of which music is one element, how do you develop the focus to get good enough to produce great music? John McLaughlin never said, "the visuals are
more important than the music".
Music has always developed under patronage in which musicians were not much more than servants. Once it was the aristocracy. In the 20th century it was the record industry. And then under the baby boomer interest in liberative philosophy, musicians became heroes and coined it in. Maybe its the era of "musician" as a viable hero journey that is coming to an end, to be replaced with "content creator " exercising a much broader range of skills. But with that will come dilution. There is something missing as we go forward in this commercial mindset and I think its the question of what is music's role in society? What does it do? If we understand that better then perhaps the younger generation can promote our humanity in the process.
Agreed to all you said. Don't forget there is a huge branch of the industry that produces instruments. Not just amps and highly technical electronics, but for instance intricately crafted woodwind and brass instruments that still excite the auditory organs of vast numbers. I would say the prime purpose is to educate young people to make music in any form, melodic choral and rhythmic, before they line up as slaves to particular genres.
Thank you very much for posting this !
In solidarity with the fighters for peace, love, justice & truth we express our feelings with music on our channel.
Greetings from Germany ... CLUB OF THE UNCENSORED POETS
👍
I gave up making music about ten years ago because the internet scares me but i still daydream about it all day long
Why give it up, though? If it makes you happy and satisfies some kind of creative Jones you have, what difference does it make whether or not it's on the internet? Besides, if you've gone to the trouble to create and record music, going to the trouble of posting it on the internet and hyping it a bit with social media will be the easy part...
I like the advice.
Exactly right and timely.
Steve Vai asked Frank Zappa in the
The 1970's how to make a living
with music?
Frank responded " two words"....
"Publishing CORPORATION"
Steve Vai said over his lifetime it has given him a comfortable income over TIME
his entire life. With the aforementioned advice..
I'm going to make it for sure!
The old music biz has mostly gone yes - but even back in the 80s/90s they were more likely to take all the fun out of doing music than anything else anyway.... but I'd say the live scene is actually coming back to life a bit - if you have a decent tight band playing a good set you can make reasonable money & get regular gigs apparently... (touch wood!) We've found people are more up for decent live music than they have been for many years - & very open to good original material too... Now there's no music bizz (esp. post Diddy!) we're free to make whatever we songs/albums we want - (& maybe put em on flashdrives instead of CDs) - free to use producers/production that doesn't make everything sound exactly the same or awful - free to make music for the real & original reason - it's so much fun for the giver & the receiver (along with all the cathartic self-expression & soul expansion aspects of course).... Love&Peace ua-cam.com/video/Htl5yqTK4wg/v-deo.html
One solution is to bypass learning music and working in a band and go directly into Tee shirt sales. I worked as a printer and made Tee shirts of fictitious Bands and sold them.
Why not just start a fresh musical life, back to the free roots? Write your own songs, play at free gigs, create your own merch table, tell your own story, be original, be free, go on your own adventure in life, make your own life.., who needs them now!
Thank you soo much for all you do for our creative community!!
Thank you for your support, love, inspiration, intelligence… thank you for giving a Damn !!! Bless your heart Andy
Thank you sooo much for this video. Much more useful that your "top 10" for creatives such as myself.
you are getting better at making videos
Mr Edwars is ahead of the curve ,AGAIN !
The problem with being a content creator is that it will eventually turn you into a creep unless you're very savvy. Chasing clicks and gaming algorithms will drive a person crazy.
It seems the same as the old system where you had to sell records
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer You made better money off of selling records than content creation, and most people didn't make any money selling records.....
@@corybarnes2341 No that is not true.
Alright, let’s see your data.@@AndyEdwardsDrummer
@@corybarnes2341 UA-cam/Patreon earnings are greater than royalties.
Great video, but one thing Andy hasn't said is that if you want to make a living as a player (as opposed to a singer or songwriter) you can absolutely still do it. He quite rightly said there are no "session musicians" any more. Most people these days don't know what that term used to mean. But there are lots of successful freelance players.You just have to have the right skills. Andy is also right that a lot of music colleges are not going to to give you those skills as a core part of their offering.
This is what I have been trying to tell the musicians I know and have been working with for some time now. Not many listened. See you on patreon I hope.
Came to this sticking point recently having written and recorded a fair bit after years of doing nothing musically. The initial aim was to have enough material to get on the bill at a Celtic festival in Europe but making enough to support a meagre living would be a dream.
Been thinking hard and came to much the same conclusions and avenues as yourself but appreciate you clarifying and articulating them as well as hints that never clicked before. Great content, cheers bud
I am doing cover songs and talking about stuff, progress is slow and I am learning to talk to the camera.
Great facilities Andy in your Bunker 😊
Sounds like solid advice.
Great video, Andy, ...btw the greatest wigs in RnR are Ritchie Blackmore's and Jeff Beck's ...
Great video Andy, I shall be sharing this with my students. Back in the late 80s I realised I was not going to be a rock star and diversified into teaching guitar. I still get to play every now and then but fell in love with teaching.
I was following advice back then, which was already suggesting the industry was changing.
That Strat leaning against a radiator is making me nervous!
Don't worry, it's a Squier
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer 😀
One of the stupidest things I didn't do was not learn to play all instruments like guitar and keyboards I was a drummer and a vocalist if I would have done that I would not have had to put with narcissistic assholes and just did myself
@AdrianJeffreys-fj2fv I pretty much only play drums, which can be pretty limiting in a creative sense if you aren't able to collaborate with other players who fit your vibe and appreciate your contributions. Fortunately, I've found that in the band that I'm currently in, where we create our own original music and all contribute to the sound of it. I've certainly gone through periods where I wasn't finding players that I felt like I really connected with, which was frustrating and either meant that I was playing music that I didn't really love or not playing at all...
@aaronhayman8558 yeah I don't compromise I was the lyrists and music arranger being the vocalist I had to be able to sing over the riffs and I usually wrote the choruses. I've always played progressive neo classical Gothic metal and that's a whole different problem but mainly the musicians were complete dicks and I don't put up with ignorant shit
Good one from Andy. Ads make money, the longer the video the more ads. My approach as a viewer - play this type of video at 1.5 playback speed.
In the Klondike gold rush, the people that made a guaranteed income were selling gold pans, picks, shovels and tents.
Thank you Mr Edwards. Good message well said
the studio looks great ☝️
I only have one song left to write and then it’s time to record. No music videos. Only playthrus which will feature new improvised solos. I don’t care what random people want. I’m going to do things my way and the world is going to have no choice but to like it.
This is really helpful. Was involved in a huge film production of a music video for one of my bands singles and chatted to the stylist we hired (iow asked really nicely to do it for free cos of the limited budget) who had plenty of thoughts on media/contentification of art.
We can’t really escape the need to post music as content pieces, ideally doing something like 3 posts a day on tik tok (according to her)- but I’m worried this over emphasis defeats the live playing aspect.
Can you really call yourself a musician if most of your work is in a bedroom playing to a click track? and not forging long term partnerships with local cats? The later leads to nowhere financially, but is so vital to my craft as a bassist. I want to spend most of my time getting better, not thinking about how to become the next Dave50whatever his name was again
I never said you need to just play in your bedroom and post three times a day, what I'm saying is that the medium has changed.
Good video.
I'd go a step further and encourage people to really think about how much money they need to live the life they want. What's the average salary in the city you live? Do you want to buy a house one day, have a partner, send your kids to a good school, have some money to retire, etc, etc? There's many places experiencing a cost of living crisis at the moment, everything has become very expensive!... And in this context to charge $5 per person for a lot of work on your behalf with absolutely no guarantees... Sheesh. Remember, some older youtubers (No offense Andy) probably achieved a degree of financial security before they started using youtube and Patreon. I would never discourage an artist from pursuing a dream, but you should go in clear-eyed.
'twas ever thus! I bought a synthesizer for £600 to join a band in 1976 - nothing has changed.
So you really do have to sell your soul for rock and roll, at least if you want to make a living out of it. But hasn't that always been the case, on way or another? Music is the fun stuff for me, I don't want to kill that by making it part of the daily grind.
brilliant
This is excellent.
This video is a great continuation of the one you posted on patreon the other day about forgetting the old ways of progression in music and using new tactics.
Edit: the recent video on Andy's patreon is viewable by all. It's free for everyone. I thought I'd mention that so that people don't think that I'm promoting paid content even though you should contribute to Andy.
Cool jam space !
Yes, grand master Edwards, you are right...I am going nowhere!!! -- Great content man! Thanks!
Good God, this sounds like a nightmare. I think I'd rather be an accountant. Instead, I'll be an art teacher and make music for FUN.
You've got it. Sporify and Apple Music are fine for amateurs who just want to write songs and send links to their friends but they are nightmares for professional musicians who need to earn a living from their craft.
Yeah. To me as both an artist and a consumer, this is just not my world any more. Like, I just want to do the thing I'm good at and put out albums. I can't imagine why anyone would for instance want to watch me streaming content on UA-cam or Patrion or whatever. Not decrying what Andy does because he understands it and he's got a flare for it. I love watching engaging speakers, but that's not what I'm good at. Then there's the patrion thing. I support threee or four people on Patrion. But if I chose to support everyone who's content I enjoy, I'd be bloody skint and I probably wouldn't be able to actually keep up with all the content anyway.
I mean, Andy's got a video out every day. I can barely keep up with him. Imagine if all our favourite musicians were putting out hours of patrion content for us to watch. No! By and large, I want to hear their albums, when they've taken the time and skill to make them. That's what I have always thought was important. I don't want to be paying 3 or 4 quid a month to a a couple of dozen musicians, for a bunch of extra hipe and content that there's no way I'll keep up with. LOL. I just don't get the way things are going. But sadly, Andy appears to be spot on.
@@PeterCamberwick I couldn't agree with you more Peter. In order to be a good UA-camr, you need to put out content all the time, and I admire those who do it, but are you going to have any time to thoughtfully write songs and make engaging recordings of them. Honestly, I can't think of any artist that does that.
I agree. The internet seems to have pretty much ruined everything and all the money goes to a few billionaires!
Comming from so called "underground scene", playing for 30 years, i completely agree!
I think you're correct, but sadly this means that I have to stop doing the thing I can actually do and am reasonably good at, in order to spend time doing the bit I hate and am crap at. ....... I think I'll just fizzle out quietly in a corner. 😪
Brilliant, thanks. A rare occurence of a YouTuve video that lives up to the title.
Absolute truth. Very informative!
100% correct! You are basically retelling my musical life story!!! And 99.999% of everyone else watching this! Yes I’m confident with this statistic!
I’ve been gigging since the early 80s but then there were plenty of venues who wanted live music, I had the naivety and self belief of youth and was prepared to put up with all manner of shitty conditions to realise the dream and play what I wanted. Following a redundancy about 10 years ago, the reality of doing it to make a living was very different - slogging it out in rough-arsed pubs in provincial towns playing music I hated to drunks keen for a dance and a fight - and nearly made me put my guitar away for good. Luckily, I can do it for fun again but I’ve seen some brilliant musicians start to hate their music - esp. jazzers working on cruise ships forced to play “Moon River” and other middle-of-the-road stuff. I suppose if you get to do what you love for a living then you are part of a tiny privileged group while most of us wind up doing the least awful option.
I appreciate and honor any musician who can make a living from the music… Whatever combination of Teaching and gigging and weddings, etc. that they have to do. Of course the downside of it is that it just becomes another job or series of jobs… Still, I think it’s an accomplishment what is the other thing… The magic of the music… The spark, the connection between you and the music… And between you and the audience, that’s the magic
Thought we was gonna learn a new chord for a second! 🤣
I think it's always been like this. This is just focusing on self promotion. The various methods may change but when I was playing regularly every week it was mainly to pay off equipment deals to get a good sound and transport. In the ''music business'' you're either very successful and over paid or struggling, ripped off and starving there doesn't seem to be a middle ground.
I left England at 19 to live in Ayia Napa and have made a decent living playing covers in bars, hotels and at corporate gigs since 2008. Even at that age I realised the dream of being in a real band was a dead idea and it's just something I've never thought about with any seriousness.
"yesterday's gone sweet jesus" by Merle Haggard pretty much sums it up. and/or welcome to the future
Don't forget the most important band lesson. No matter what you do you will never get four or five guys to stay together for any real length of time. The better you feel about it, the more painful it is when your bass player or key player quits and there aren't any replacements to be had. I spent way too much time rehearsing and teaching people songs only to have them split and take what I taught them elsewhere. So much time I could have been hanging out with my son that I spent in a basement with a bunch of dumbasses with no real love of making music. I regret every minute of it. You can't get it back. I would love to do what Andy is saying, but I will do it solo with no one pointing a finger saying "I don't want to do that".
An excellent and timely video
You were talking about the difference between business minded people, and hobbiest.
bro is cooking
It's called Flipping the coin
Crakin vid, as usual!
Father Christmas says extra packet of biscuits in your stokin for sure!
yes we want the wigs!!!
UA-cam changed it's algorhythm. Now, small channels have to pay to get their videos seen/heard.
And it will continue to change the rules to milk every penny.
That is simply not true - I’ve been on UA-cam since 2007 (not just this channel) and the opportunity for small channels is currently better than it ever has been in the past. I’ve even stopped doing some of my bigger channels to make new ones because they work better and can get off the ground quicker.
@@NerdChorus No it is true, I have information you don't and I would like for you to never talk to me again.
@@ricktheexplorer No videos, what a surprise
@@NerdChorus Nah dude, I don't want to have to talk to you.
Looks like a nice old set of Zyn cymbals on the kit.
I got the message Andy. If you want to be a musician don't play music. got it. Charles
Andy says the future is now!
I just came up with a world record level best idea ever (first one this week, too) that you're welcome to use, whoever you are (Andy's probably too busy with his Patreon to be able to invest the time it would take).
It's this *Toby the Vampire Tick* (all about this tick that turns into a vampire, so you'd probably need to do a cartoon, since ticks are hard to train as actors). He's just minding his own business and then he gets this impulse to crawl up a grass stalk, and lie in ambush for a victim.
Vampires are very popular these days, and have been so for at least 30 years. You can't go wrong with a vampire product.
(But be quick. I made brief mention of the idea on a comment to a Charismatic Voice video a few minutes ago, so there will be thousands of people pouncing on the idea by the time you get a hold of it.)
And listen to Andy. Sounds like he's figured out how things work (apart from failing to see the incredible opportunity the Vampire Tick idea has.)
Great work Andy 👍🏾👍🏾✅✅💯💯
Thanks 👍
Get some guitar stands for the love of Christopher.
Seriously dont rest your guitars against radiators the necks will warp
Great video. I wonder if any “content” Will be remembered in 50 years the same way we look at albums from the 70s. Maybe kids in 2070 will be wearing Rick Beato T-shirts. Or have we lost the “magic”?
Wait a minute. I'm taking your theory down.
First of all, having fun from working hard and making very good living out of it is also a possibility that exists in many people life including full time musicians. That's for your "theory".
The fact that some succeed and some do not is a different thing at all. Most people minds are leaning into the perception of how things were in their past, and that's the main blocker. They do not adjust which is understandable. That's including the music industry.
40 years ago most of us didn't had the freedom of recording and filming ourselves at home in a good quality. Today, all we need is a decent computer with a graphic card and external audio card with many pro software including plugins that are free to make a full album that sound's very good. 4k smartphones can be used to make clips.
Now, If the album will be a commercial success, that's a different story because back then, a musician made concerts to sell an album.
Today, a musician make Albums to sell a concert and if that is not the mindset, it better become one
Live concerts with getting paid are the way to make a living today, and a musician better have at least three of them every week, and it can be fun. Very simple.
I'm pretty sure this is what i said in the video....
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer
Still, you present it as an issue, which is not.
Now, If you want a real issue, wait until the AI with music abilities will be implanted on robots that can give you both Suno and udio performances and doing so live because it is coming, and very fast.
Then, it is party time for everyone 😉
There's still a music industry. All of the people composing music for films are in the "music industry". All of the people composing music for video games, jingles, stock broadcast libraries etc. are in the "music industry". All of the people going out and playing 6 month resort gigs or cruise ship gigs are in the music industry. Yes, no more Bay City Rollers. That was never a great deal anyway.
Films are not the music industry, video games are not the music industry. I need to explain this better
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer True, in a sense, and I am with you on the points you make in the vid (great stream of consciousness approach) but since the sad demise of our band in NZ in 1980 after several years of critical acclaim (and an album of originals with Polygram) fortune smiled and my musical partner and I were asked to write a soundtrack for a TV Drama. Went well and suddenly a whole lot of TV Commercials followed (all the directors and editors in Auckland knew each other) and in '82 we decamped to Hong Kong to try to crack the frantic movie biz here. Again - a few movies but LOTS of TV Commercials that resulted in us having studios in HK, Singapore & Shanghai thru the '90s and '00s. The reason I say all this for anyone who may have even read this far is that on the back of the $$ we earned doing jingles and ads we were able to re-invest in studios AND 'doing our own stuff'. CDs are more or less gone now but we leveraged ad clients (fashion, hip bars and 'theme' restaurants etc) to consider commissioning CDs of original music to give to their VIPs and sell in the shops and we did one off distribution deals with some of the majors to get into record shops. We haven't been able to 'retire and collect the royalties' by any means but I would stress that if you are writing and releasing stuff from even a modest home set-up - Logic and a few good plug-ins - that looking beyond just releasing a song or album, that researching ad agencies, indie film-makers, documentary makers etc. is worth a shot. And, yes, these days most of them simply license from 'Production Music Library' companies for peanuts but that's also another angle - bang together some 60 / 30 / 20 / 15 second mixes of a track, get a dozen or two together and approach these companies - we licensed 'Asian Themed' tracks drawing on friends from the cities mentioned above . . . . think creatively, for sure that is essential, but think LATERALLY - where does music play an 'unseen' part beyond gigs and record releases? It's tough out there but there's always hop! Here endeth the lesson and sorry for being a bore! Cheers 😅
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer The composition of music is the music industry. John Williams, film composer is a musician. I don't need anything explained, I have worked in the music industry for 35 years.
@@corybarnes2341 I understand your point but nobody is sending a demo tape of tunes off to Pixar in the hope that a producer will want to use your music in a film. You get commissioned to write music for movies or TV, that means you already have to be in 'the industry' for people in those mediums to know who you are. For most people the 'recording industry' is synonymous with the 'music industry' and is probably a better term for what Andy is talking about.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer The pubishing department at EMI spent most of their energy and time trying to place songs into video games, movies, televsion shows and add campaigns. I one was involved in a project where a video game company paid $500,000 to use a famous prog rock bands song in their commercial not even in the actual game. That's called business. This stuff you talk about is not business.
Awesome video have a great day Andy and also today is my half older brother birthday and also happy Halloween ❤😊
A thought-provoking video... ☝️😎
I am writing songs in the expectation they will never be heard. I played in talented bands with epic song writers. And the pattern is “it’s all over”. This advice, be a UA-camR or social media, it’s pointless. There is no route, no model, no market. Do it because you love it but FFS don’t expect a living.
I have to make a living, I cannot do anything else
Good luck to you Andy. Love your channel. I’ll keep watching 👀. Jaded old gits like me love music and hate what’s happened to its economics and hate social media still more
Most importantly, you have the Chet photo.
Can you bazooka the car-park?
So just stay at home and enjoy whatever you are not doing. Right?
No, realise that the old ways have gone
I do it for the love of it i enjoy it
Whilst agreeing that selling music in the form of records, cds etc is dead, thanks to free streaming/downloading; there's still money to be made gigging and selling merchandise at those gigs.
You still have to cultivate an audience.
andy have you gone down the Wings of pegasus ken kamplin youtube black hole......oh my gawd
Come on Andy, we know all that , give us those 10 damn wigs 😆
Got some artists if you wanna put that studio to use, enginerring production workshop material possible
Is selling vinyl at live shows all that’s left? Just asking because I have no skills except buying nice stereo gear and loving records, but I’m over a certain age so I don’t matter anymore
There is no music scene here in Australia..... even the cover band scene is dire.
Sad but true. Hopefully something changes
Very good vid Andy, not for me I don't want to be a success. Found my mind wandering tho.... Best wig in music? Sinatra and Elton John have to be up there.
Good advice, however I've noticed the quality of fans at gigs is far higher than online.
When I do gigs I'm getting passionate fans who often happen to be venue owners, muso's, etc...
Online, at the moment, I'm just wasting my time with idiots, let's not beat about the bush.
I think the real message is quality not quantity. I hope to work with a mentor soon to enact the strategies you mention (and more) but in an effort to find and build a community of quality listeners. Not Instagram dross.
And also gigs and rehersal spaces are means to build networks, as you well know. This again is a shortcut to find that quality base.
It all comes back to finding the tribe, the quality people and trying to bypass the mob as much as possible.
And I suspect public radio has a role still to play for this very reason.
If music is a hobby, where do the hobbyists hang out?
I think I've answered that.
I nodded out, then Rick Beatoff was on...WTF???
I feel that if you're really a creative type with a passion for music, you're actually better off not pursuing music as a profession. Get some kind of day job, which will finance your life and allow you to follow your muse playing music. If you're serious enough about playing music and put a lot of energy into it there's always a chance that it may be something that captures the public's imagination, that you can make a good profit from. Even if that never happens, though, there's a joy that comes from playing exactly the kind of music that you want and not having to worry about making money.
I have been a pro musician for 30 years, I earn my living making music, i always have. I tried to get this across on this video but it seems the mindset is really fixed.
@AndyEdwardsDrummer I don't think I said or even implied otherwise...
A perfect example of someone using this approach is Chris Buck
Top wigs? Ritchie Blackmore.
The music industry is in the doldrums now because popular music is crap. What everyone on here likes is niche music.Producers are not interested in Jazz or Folk for instance,.. They want quick buck so they instinctively appeal to tribal elements with little or no ear. Adolescent gils being a good example. What we need to bolster are small to middling venues where lesser known bands have a chance to perform. Forget pubs. They were the haunt of boozers.
These days no one can afford to drink pints like they used to.
I actually worry about the future of orchestral music. You might scorn, but no jazz officianado has got that way by ignoring classical music. Virtually all the prog and folk bands were lovers of better known classics. I am really heartened that young musicians like Anna Lapwood is popularising choral music for young women. The ethereal harmonising and superb accoustics is lovely and an intiodote to thrash metal!
The music industry is in a crisis of its own making. It is at the end of the road for instant monetising. It needs to recognise the huge variety and appeal of genres and more clever ways of marketing them.
Interesting perspective on the evolution of the delivery of music to the masses and the current methods for receiving compensation for that ability. In addition to everything you spoke about you also have to put in the time, energy and money to be expert on your specific instrument be it guitar, drums, voice, saxophone etc.
I don't know why there is this big deal about making a living with music.Why do you need to do that? Whats making a living from music got to do with the quality of the music you make? Absolutely nothing.... Whats wrong with getting a decent job as an accountant/teacher/insurance salesman etc so that you are free to make the music you love and are able to afford to pay to make your own cds and promote them.if you have talent enjoy some success with that...Why play in dingy pubs for crap money every week as i see many jazz musicians do?? -- its a wretched life unless you really do need that ego massage way more than you care to admit
Some people simply suck at "real" jobs. 😭
There are various reasons for that. Sometimes cognitive or psychological differences. Sometimes it's more of a _spiritual_ difference. Sometimes the art is their true inescapable calling.
Fink Ployd?
Andy, any examples of bands/artists implementing what you say, i.e. with youtube/Patreon?
Look up "Death of the Follower" (SxSW) by Jack Conte.
@@crnkmnky Thanks, actually stumbled on that video the other day.
This is important…. And oddly inspiring….. damn… homework 😅
I hate SoMe...I refuse to become a content creator. I'm a musician.
OK, fine, true, but lets also remember that lots of musicians did not give a f. about the music industry when it existed. There is tons of unknown bands, most of them local bands, especially during the punk and hardcore era, that pushed the music forward, each pushing the giant rock an inch forward. Some might not even call them musicians, but who cares. I have more respect for those unknown or lesser knows bands most of which didn't even get an indie record deal, than those who played by the industry's rules and earned recognition.