NASCAR's Longest Serving Track: Martinsville Speedway | S1ap on Location 10

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
  • Built in 1947 and hosting at least one NASCAR event since 1948, Martinsville Speedway is a hold over from the sport's early days. So why is it here? Why is in shaped like a paperclip, and why is it still around? Let's find out . . .
    #NASCAR #MartinsvilleSpeedway
    ✅ If you want to support the channel, you can do so here on Patreon:
    / s1apsh0es
    ✅Or if you just want to make a one time donation, I also have a Ko-fi:
    ko-fi.com/s1ap...
    Music in order of appearance:
    Space Cassette - Orbital Transmission
    Ross Bugden - Black Heat
    Follow me here:
    / s1apsh0es
    / s1apsh0es
    / s1apsh0es

КОМЕНТАРІ • 276

  • @S1apShoes
    @S1apShoes  2 роки тому +54

    If you want to have a shot at picking out the next On Location episode, you can do that by donating to my patreon right here: www.patreon.com/S1apSh0es

    • @BubbaBearGames
      @BubbaBearGames 2 роки тому +3

      You did say you wanted to do an On Location video of the Oswego speedway, which is home to the Super Modifeds.

    • @mitchdrew9005
      @mitchdrew9005 2 роки тому

      @@BubbaBearGames that would be awesome. Not sure if you got any footage for a slap on location video, but if so it would make for a good one

    • @BubbaBearGames
      @BubbaBearGames 2 роки тому

      @@mitchdrew9005 I'm actually from North Carolina, and I heard him say something about that on his Super Modified video.

    • @mollygsp
      @mollygsp 2 роки тому

      @S1apSh0es Independence Weekend Grand Prix July 2nd 2022....Big Block Supermodified , Small Block Supermodifieds, 350 Winged Supermodifieds, Sportsman Modifieds at Oswego Speedway! You should come up and get a Hoffman and come pitside for the race.

    • @triciamcconnell3959
      @triciamcconnell3959 2 роки тому

      @@mollygsp what about super dirt at Oswego

  • @DennyDeliversYT
    @DennyDeliversYT 2 роки тому +411

    we all know why S1ap is making a video about Martinsville…
    it’s in the name… _MARTINsville._
    *we will never escape his idolization for Mark.*

    • @turgid_member8717
      @turgid_member8717 2 роки тому +35

      Ironically, Mark named it his least favorite track.

    • @alexander1485
      @alexander1485 2 роки тому

      Im actually a bigger fan than slap

    • @sprinterofblack8186
      @sprinterofblack8186 2 роки тому +17

      Mark Martinsville is my city

    • @darkesttemplar07
      @darkesttemplar07 2 роки тому +1

      Jesus Christ. It’s Jason Bourne.

    • @evanwilliams6406
      @evanwilliams6406 2 роки тому +2

      Mark only won there once in 2000 and honestly it was kind of unexpected. Mark got some quick pit service and two tires and turned a top 10 race car into a winning one. Then Mark wouldn't win for another two years until he won the 600 in 2002.

  • @rainingmoneyx
    @rainingmoneyx 2 роки тому +223

    Fun fact, Bristol has held more xfinity races than any other track and the truck series most used track is texas

    • @jabber1990
      @jabber1990 2 роки тому

      Texas has held 2 races a year since the beginning of the Trucks right?

    • @dethkillerspiral
      @dethkillerspiral 2 роки тому +1

      Oooo What about cup?

    • @austinpatrick2682
      @austinpatrick2682 2 роки тому +6

      Fun fact for me personally, I live 30 minutes away 😁

    • @ProxiProtogen
      @ProxiProtogen 2 роки тому +2

      Well texas is a teenager and compared to Martinsville

    • @psychlops924
      @psychlops924 2 роки тому +11

      @@ProxiProtogen and so is the Truck series compared to the Cup series

  • @Mister_Matt_X
    @Mister_Matt_X 2 роки тому +105

    S1ap: I’m S1apshoes until next time...
    Also S1ap: Wait before I leave check out this delicious hotdog I ate at the track for two bucks!
    Me: Yup I can see that it looks delicious...

    • @jonlorbacher
      @jonlorbacher 2 роки тому +1

      Martinsville hotdogs are legendary

  • @JunohNebula
    @JunohNebula 2 роки тому +29

    Love seeing small tracks like this survive into the modern era. Doesn't matter if it's dirt or paved. Remember to show love to your local 1/4 mile tracks everyone!

  • @SiVlog1989
    @SiVlog1989 Рік тому +7

    Long live Martinsville Speedway. I'll never forget Ross Chastain's moment of inspiration to get into the Final 4 in 2022

  • @DaveTheRaceFan
    @DaveTheRaceFan 2 роки тому +21

    The evolution of this track is amazing, and I'm happy to see it still standing strong to this very day.

  • @andrewdougal7258
    @andrewdougal7258 2 роки тому +27

    Being from the UK and not getting NASCAR, I love learning what makes the series so loved by you guys. Interesting stuff mate

  • @dibslin2.081
    @dibslin2.081 2 роки тому +7

    John Andretti's win here was one hell of a piece of driving. RIP John, we miss you.

  • @DannyBTalks
    @DannyBTalks 2 роки тому +6

    NASCAR: “Hey Norfolk Southern, do you mind moving those tracks? We’d like our track just a tad bigger.”
    Norfolk Southern: “Well sure, it might take a while and may disrupt our trains a bit, but yeah, we absolutely can do that for you.”
    NASCAR: “Thanks!”
    (Fast forward to 2005)
    Norfolk Southern: “Hey guys, the work is done. When are you doing your work?”
    NASCAR: “Hey, so…people love us. Think we’ll stay this way.”
    Norfolk Southern: *BRUH!!!*

  • @ExecutiveAutomotiveSociety
    @ExecutiveAutomotiveSociety 2 роки тому +13

    One of my houses, where I spent part of my childhood is literally on the hill behind you. It's about 2 miles up on top of the hill behind you. I've driven past that track thousands of times and seen some of the best drive through. My dad was friends with the owners and I remember seeing Dale Earnhardt's car test there, even though Dale never liked testing. I had a friend die on those train tracks too. Another friend worked for the television stations as a boom operator. The biggest thing I know of the track is it's a brake destroyer. It's been crazy to think I've been with it for so long and still revel in the history we have with it and then realizing it's still going. Now I have places near three big tracks, but Martinsville still holds a special place for me and the awesome hot dogs it's so well known for. Well, you don't appreciate them until you move away.

  • @Grindtone603
    @Grindtone603 2 роки тому +22

    I went to the fall race in 2005, still my favorite race I've attended

  • @jeffktown
    @jeffktown 2 роки тому +9

    S1ap's Miller Lite hat is 💯

  • @KK-ex5zu
    @KK-ex5zu 2 роки тому +2

    As a Virginia native an 8th generation Virginian I take pride in Martinsville Speedway still thriving!!!!!! I live 30min away from Richmond Raceway but I only attend races in Richmond because its local, I count down the days to my 2hr drive to Martinsville Twice a year! Because that's some real racing!!!!!! Great video!

  • @DannyNGraysOfficial
    @DannyNGraysOfficial 2 роки тому +27

    Was great seeing you at martinsville in the fall race really enjoyed talking to you for a few minutes!!

  • @piotrnaliwajko9834
    @piotrnaliwajko9834 2 роки тому +7

    The review of the food available at different tracks should be a constant feature for this series ;)

    • @caseysmith544
      @caseysmith544 2 роки тому

      I know at others he has been they are defunct as a track so they do not have food, but the ones that do, he should 100% do this.

  • @CJPostal
    @CJPostal 2 роки тому +9

    I feel like they played OutKast's "Hey Ya" at like 3x 😆 always a great day when Slap posts 👍

  • @trealosgaming3345
    @trealosgaming3345 2 роки тому +2

    Martinsville is a special track for me. It was where my first NASCAR full race experience was in 2001 with my Grandfather. We went to both every year till the spring of 2007 where it was our last race together

  • @Rebelscum320
    @Rebelscum320 2 роки тому +7

    Indycar at Martinsville would be interesting.

  • @ZontarDow
    @ZontarDow 2 роки тому +6

    "Every NASCAR series you can think of has come here"
    Oh really? Even Pinty's and EuroNASCAR?

    • @tsholts5173
      @tsholts5173 2 роки тому +1

      Lol, although Pinty's did go to New Hampshire in 2018-19

    • @ZontarDow
      @ZontarDow 2 роки тому +2

      @@tsholts5173 Yes I remember that and it was a disaster, those specs aren't built for ovals that large. If there's going to be a stop in the US on the calendar, I don't understand why they'd pick New Hampshire over Glen.

  • @BlueJimmie48Fan
    @BlueJimmie48Fan 2 роки тому +5

    I've only visited this track once so far and I can already say this is my most favorite track I have ever attended a race at! Can't wait to head back in 2022! 👊

  • @NASCARFAN93100
    @NASCARFAN93100 2 роки тому +5

    My favorite short track of All Time

  • @theman13451
    @theman13451 2 роки тому +1

    Martinsville will always be the track that made me a Nascar fan.
    The 1991 Hanes 500. The sight of one the best all around races at Martinsville ever.
    Also the sight of Dale Earnhardt's 50th career win.

  • @evanj2400
    @evanj2400 2 роки тому +2

    *I’m vibing to Blinding lights in the background*

  • @bigasstrout
    @bigasstrout 2 роки тому +30

    I think if NASCAR is to continue using the current playoff format, Martinsville should be the final race.

    • @thejman3489
      @thejman3489 2 роки тому +5

      I would go with Darlington or Richmond as the season closer. Although if Darlington is the last race then I would make the first Darlington race the southern 500.

    • @davidmatthewvinotjr8396
      @davidmatthewvinotjr8396 2 роки тому +1

      @@thejman3489 No. Darlington Always must be 2nd weekend in May (correlating as close as possible to May 10th, since the first race is the Rebel 400) and Labor Day (Being the Traditional Date of the Southern 500)

  • @-BigMike-
    @-BigMike- 2 роки тому +4

    My very first race was the 1992 Hanes 500 at Martinsville. I was 6 years old. Mark Martin won and I had a blast, even though I only knew of like 5 drivers.

  • @ejtamayo5317
    @ejtamayo5317 2 роки тому +1

    I got to visit Martinsville speedway in 2018 for a race and even though there weren't many wrecks, it still was an awesome experience. If I could ever go again for a race, I would definitely go.

  • @crippledcrusader1321
    @crippledcrusader1321 2 роки тому +2

    I will forever remember the 2015 fall race, only for Matt Kenseth slamming Logano into the wall.

  • @swealer
    @swealer 2 роки тому +2

    Hey Slap & Community!👋🏻
    I stumbled upon your channel because of my interest in NASCAR, Indy, and stuff like that. For me as a German, I always loved Nascar but didn't know how the series evolved. Got yourself a new sub😉. Nice Videos and great work! Keep it up bud!

  • @mattsnewmailbox
    @mattsnewmailbox 2 роки тому +1

    I was born and raised in Martinsville. This is great! Thank you for putting this together!

  • @gregormandl1381
    @gregormandl1381 Рік тому +1

    Thank you for that great presentation of Martinsville Speedway! My favourite venue too ❤

  • @berryboiblast
    @berryboiblast 2 роки тому +3

    I’m gonna have to go to a Martinsville race sometime here in the future. Every time I watch one I’m on the edge on my seat!

    • @lordvoldemort4944
      @lordvoldemort4944 2 роки тому +1

      Get turns one and two I sit there every time it’s cheaper and you get a good race of pit road

    • @berryboiblast
      @berryboiblast 2 роки тому

      @@lordvoldemort4944 Noted, thanks!

  • @ryanlong4021
    @ryanlong4021 Рік тому +3

    This was recommended to me after a humble watermelon farmer absolutely sent it to get in the final four. Awesome. 👍

  • @brandencurtin4210
    @brandencurtin4210 5 місяців тому

    I just drove down for my birthday, while watching multiple times I watched again. And while the cup racing quite frankly sucked, the track is certainly one of the most respectable. I traveled 12 hours my first time fall 22 because of this video and have now since again in 2024 with my 9 month old son. I hope to do so in the future. Thank you.

  • @RCHProductionsYT
    @RCHProductionsYT 2 роки тому +8

    Love the vids S1ap, keep up the great work

  • @Blarff2
    @Blarff2 2 роки тому +3

    wake up S1apSh0es uploaded

  • @AlonsoRules
    @AlonsoRules 2 роки тому

    I love Martinsville's location. Jammed on some random piece of land between a railway line and interstate. It adds to the 'lore of the place.

  • @paulminnick3935
    @paulminnick3935 2 роки тому +3

    This is great stuff. Keep up the great work. Enjoying the content. I didn't even know about truex winning with a busted fender last year. Hope everyone has a great holiday season

  • @hughjaass3787
    @hughjaass3787 2 роки тому +3

    Another quality video from Slapshoes. 👏👏👏👏👏👏

  • @williammilliken7287
    @williammilliken7287 2 роки тому +1

    Hey my friend got introduced to the best moonshine there peach brandy😁 after 7 times going there i want more...this interview was amazing..thx from Wilmington nc

  • @KellieLeigh48
    @KellieLeigh48 2 роки тому +2

    Great video S1ap!

  • @JJA1987
    @JJA1987 2 роки тому +3

    Quite possibly the best track on the schedule for lots of reasons - The Racing, The Tempers, The Hot Dogs, etc

  • @markmartin5477
    @markmartin5477 2 роки тому +8

    Awesome video Slap.

  • @rustycaplinger8804
    @rustycaplinger8804 2 роки тому +1

    Great video, I really like listening to you talk about racing. Merry Christmas and happy new year slapshoes

  • @psychlops924
    @psychlops924 2 роки тому +1

    I’m surprised you didn’t mention the grass inside the turns, and the fact that they removed it. I remember them making a big deal about it when they took out the grass.

  • @81casperflip
    @81casperflip 2 роки тому +1

    My favorite Martinsville memories:
    Rich Bickle 4th place in cup, John Andretti's late race charge and win,
    Jeff Gordon's final win, Denny getting spun

  • @Basetugboat2675
    @Basetugboat2675 2 роки тому +1

    very interesting video i did not know about all of the history about this track.

  • @arsturbuther
    @arsturbuther 2 роки тому +9

    The Pockrass Point is at 11:10.

  • @supergamesundco
    @supergamesundco 2 роки тому

    Its incredible how much better you have becoming doing this kind of videos.

  • @Supremeballer1776
    @Supremeballer1776 2 роки тому +1

    Slap keep droppin bangers thx

  • @RacingGuy2448
    @RacingGuy2448 2 роки тому +1

    Slap:Any issue you can think of this track causes it
    Me: A restricter plate blows off

    • @rdfox76
      @rdfox76 2 роки тому

      That's not an issue, that's a feature.

  • @shaneblack3164
    @shaneblack3164 2 роки тому +5

    Are all the Best tracks made to fit the land itself?

    • @S1apShoes
      @S1apShoes  2 роки тому +6

      You’re finally getting it.

  • @aspiceronni4462
    @aspiceronni4462 2 роки тому

    Great video Slap. Your wealth of knowledge and awesome content allow me to be a fringe fan of stock car racing, when in realty I only see one or two races on tv a year. But I love these videos.

  • @davefulton268
    @davefulton268 2 роки тому

    Richmond held its 1st NASCAR sanctioned event on May16, 1948. Martinsville held its 1st NASCAR sanctioned event July 4, 1948. Richmond was first Virginia track to host a NASCAR race.

  • @MegaXboxgeeks
    @MegaXboxgeeks Рік тому +4

    Chastain found the 3rd option to pass last year lmao

  • @dajoleypoley
    @dajoleypoley 2 роки тому +1

    Absolutely iconic track, also RIP Charlie Jarzombeck

  • @garrettchurch604
    @garrettchurch604 2 роки тому +1

    Keystone sweater and a miller lite hat, classy

  • @thejman3489
    @thejman3489 2 роки тому

    Hearing about those hot dogs on the broadcast every time they race there I'm glad you reviewed them. Very thorough video on Martinsville!

  • @grandcouncilorvarmon4495
    @grandcouncilorvarmon4495 2 роки тому

    Going to Martinsville for the first time next year for the xfinity race on the 8th, excited as hell, hopefully by 2023 I'll be able to attend a cup race there🤘🏻awesome vid s1ap, love your videos bro

  • @b.j.morgan8175
    @b.j.morgan8175 2 роки тому

    Sweet! Just got done watching the North Wilkesboro vid again and Slap drops one about Martinsville.

  • @StripeGurger
    @StripeGurger 2 роки тому

    So glad to see more uploads. I love this channel.

  • @lethalmourner6251
    @lethalmourner6251 2 роки тому +5

    Martinsville was built in 1947 and Richmond was built in 1946

  • @amandalockhart7448
    @amandalockhart7448 2 роки тому

    Been missing you're abandoned race track vidz!! Love you're channel!!
    Bobby L Lockhart

  • @Azeria
    @Azeria 2 роки тому +3

    I’ve heard sometimes people claim Virginia isn’t really the South, but it’s got as many Cup dates as the entire North East, so I’m not too sure about that.

    • @GoddamnManbat
      @GoddamnManbat 2 роки тому +1

      They don’t know where the Mason-Dixon line is.

    • @GoddamnManbat
      @GoddamnManbat 2 роки тому +3

      Too many people think Deep South when they think South, but Maryland is historically in the South, too.

    • @redfox_84
      @redfox_84 2 роки тому +6

      Once you leave Northern Virginia you are in the South.

    • @lordvoldemort4944
      @lordvoldemort4944 2 роки тому +3

      It’s in the south it’s in Far south Virginia Like 12 miles from the state border

    • @kmfives
      @kmfives 2 роки тому

      i live in the northernmost part of virginia and it's still the south

  • @ScarlettStunningSpace
    @ScarlettStunningSpace 2 роки тому +1

    Back when I was a kid I played Nascar for PSP and this was my favorite track because it was the easiest to win in against the AI. I found the perfect racingline so that I would pull away every time!

  • @TeardropSidemarker
    @TeardropSidemarker 2 роки тому

    This was worth the watch to see the bonus of a S1apSh0es food review.

  • @charlespetersonjr1994
    @charlespetersonjr1994 2 роки тому

    Martinsville has a special place in my memory bank, it was the first track i got to go to in person, fall 2008.

  • @mastoner20
    @mastoner20 2 роки тому

    Live less than an hour away from the track and grew up going her every year for pretty much every race. I remember the days when you could sneak onto the bank on the back stretch on a blanket and watch the race for free and well before they made pitroad one pitroad.

  • @jaredfarney675
    @jaredfarney675 2 роки тому

    Hoffman Hots FTW! Well worth the $5. That's cool about the train tracks, some how I never knew that.

  • @tamilee8784
    @tamilee8784 2 роки тому

    Things I didn't know that I needed to! Thanks, Slap Shoes!! 🤙

  • @GoddamnManbat
    @GoddamnManbat 2 роки тому +4

    Martinsville dogs are so good, I ate two while tripping on mushrooms at the 2018 fall race. Normally, food freaks me out with sensory overload, but I was vibing. Also helps that I was able to scarf them during the slight shower that made the rainbow. If you can handle your shit on a mild dose, I recommend it.

  • @bruhgart
    @bruhgart 2 роки тому +1

    Love your work bro, let me know when your in Fayetteville NC and we can chat about things!!

  • @TheDirtysouth276
    @TheDirtysouth276 2 роки тому

    martinsville is my hometown. I still live here. my family is from here. my grandfather was actually at the first race at martinsville in 47. he said they only had a few grandstands so they had to sit on a dirt hill in turn 2.

  • @keatontripp7821
    @keatontripp7821 2 роки тому

    The best track on the schedule imo such a great track defiantly on my bucket list to go to

  • @ThickFILA79
    @ThickFILA79 2 роки тому

    it’s a good time every time slap uploads a video .. wish he could get a million subs so he could afford just to make us nascar news & nascar history video way more consistent 🤣🤟🏻

  • @shannongrayRFK
    @shannongrayRFK 2 роки тому

    You must be from NC or close to it ...live your videos bro I'm from NC it's good to see someone know nascar as well as I do

  • @GTFF
    @GTFF 2 роки тому

    You can watch the 1998 race on nascar UA-cam page and they still had 2 pics back then, I remeber when they made it 1 long pit as a kid in 1999

  • @nindraco3173
    @nindraco3173 Рік тому +1

    Awesome track...

  • @TrailsVonMudder
    @TrailsVonMudder 2 роки тому

    Got my tickets for spring 2022, taking my dad to his second nascar track. He's gonna love it way more than Pocono

  • @axecrafter
    @axecrafter 2 роки тому

    This is a great series.

  • @mols89
    @mols89 2 роки тому +5

    Martinsville is the top track in NASCAR. I will die on this hill and y'all can fight me.

    • @rodneyproductions5044
      @rodneyproductions5044 2 роки тому +3

      I could make an argument with Bristol

    • @mikefobfan101
      @mikefobfan101 2 роки тому

      @@rodneyproductions5044 You could also make a case for Talladega and Daytona

  • @brianburke3883
    @brianburke3883 2 роки тому +1

    Funny how in the mid-late 90s Martinsville was in question if it would stay on the schedule. It obviously did, and look now. It’s one of the biggest races of the year. North Wilksboro would’ve been to had it not gotten the axe

  • @kencarman674
    @kencarman674 2 роки тому +1

    Great video. Glad I watched till the end...that hotdog is only $2?!?!?!?!

    • @S1apShoes
      @S1apShoes  2 роки тому

      Yessir! A Martinsville classic.

  • @TheBobDare
    @TheBobDare 2 роки тому +1

    I'm a simple man. I see a S1apSh0es video, I click.

  • @garylehrjr1616
    @garylehrjr1616 2 роки тому

    Great video man!!!!

  • @Demise90Racing
    @Demise90Racing 2 роки тому +1

    Watching this video just made me want a Martinsville hotdog. Also Dale Jr. finished 4th that day with no fender.

  • @xx_theartfuldodger_xx1105
    @xx_theartfuldodger_xx1105 2 роки тому

    The recent influx of nascar/racing history content on youtube is quite a treat!

  • @seanbonella
    @seanbonella 2 роки тому +1

    welcome back

  • @bryonrobinson3566
    @bryonrobinson3566 2 роки тому

    Love your videos man definitely enjoy whenever you post keep up the good work

  • @willlindell8904
    @willlindell8904 2 роки тому +1

    Some of the most exciting racing happens at Martinsville, and I hate racing it in videogames

  • @iancypes5911
    @iancypes5911 Рік тому +2

    I'm here bc of Ross Chastain sending it into the wall to get a spot in the championship

  • @mightymacaque
    @mightymacaque 2 роки тому

    All the Martin's are going to love this

    • @mightymacaque
      @mightymacaque 2 роки тому

      Side note: loved the hot dog review. 2 bucks for a hotdog though is dirt cheap, even 5 bucks doesn't sound bad but that's coming from a Canadian so take it with a grain of salt.

  • @nathanfisher1826
    @nathanfisher1826 2 роки тому

    Great to see you again

  • @thachuck5123
    @thachuck5123 2 роки тому +1

    Best track period and at Christmas if you donate to the roy drive you can drive around the track wide open!!!

  • @dustbegone
    @dustbegone 2 роки тому

    Can't wait to go back

  • @dirkditmer453
    @dirkditmer453 2 роки тому

    Great vid! Alway love your episodes. Always informative and well done. Slap, you know your s***, thank you

  • @caseysmith544
    @caseysmith544 2 роки тому

    Even the New since mid 1980's or early 1990's Sportsman Series has raced here. I saw on TV Mark Martin Race Martinsville and one other track in modern Sportsman in mid 2010's after retiring fully from NASCAR Cup. He had then unknown Roku as his sponsor at the time with just the white letters on the base Mat black finish that some cars get in about as basic a car paint scheme you can have, this actually looked like paint on the car with the shiny white letters as stickers and stickers for the other mandatory sponsors of the division on the car.

  • @masonhenry8455
    @masonhenry8455 2 роки тому

    Slap, I highly recommend you read the book Driving with the Devil! Its a great read about how stock car racing came to be in the 1930s and post war 40s. The book centers around Raymond Park, Red Byron, Red Vogt and Bill France.
    Great video on Martinsville! The intro peice made me think of the book

  • @skatingfreak321
    @skatingfreak321 2 роки тому

    Merry Christmas slappy 🎊🙌🏻

  • @caseysmith544
    @caseysmith544 2 роки тому

    If doing this series there is a track in Aguasta Georga that was on Grand National/Cup in the 1960's that was a road course, they had 2 races before on this micro track also on the property but the reason races including Indy and Trans Am got stopped here was, each series eventually all had bad car nearly entire field wreaks the few years the track was out. it was called Agusta Speedway despite it being a road circuit. It would be cool to see if you can find anything of the track from the mid to late mid 1960's.