The change I'd like to see in place of the current meta. 1) The hit boxes are identical at the beginning of 0.14 2) A heart hitbox is present and is protected by armor, it has a damage multiplier that gives equivalent health to the head. 3) The calibers are found, from 5.45 to more than 1000 m/s > 9mm or other small caliber. The 7.62*54 is lethal whatever the zone of strike on the chest and whatever the penetration, i'm obviously talking about HP damage equal to or greater than 85 HP , do more damage that can decrease with distance depending on the weight of the bullet.. HP's care slowly heals all HP globals. 4) Black limbs can only be repaired once. 5) High-level armor piercing ammunition do more damage.
What is your goal with those changes? Have the TTK consistently being .25 seconds? That would make every encounter benefit the first person with visual contact and lower the skill ceiling letting players(and AI) simply aim for the center of mass and kill immediately.
@@djones6211 "That would make every encounter benefit the first person with visual contact" What do you think real life firefights are like? The majority of engagements are determined by who sees who first. Also the notion that this would lower the skill ceiling is hilarious, as using that information and translating it into an ambush is a skill in and of itself. You just want the game to stay the mess that it currently is. Nobody wants to shoot someone 10+ times to kill them in a game that proclaims itself to be realistic.
I'm just going to parrot the opinion of a lot of other people. I genuinely didn't see anything wrong with the old armor hitboxes, and would have much rather seen them add more hitboxes to the thorax/stomach, while making the exposed parts like the armpits and shoulders have negative multipliers like the arms/legs. In my opinion there is a middle ground that can make everyone happy, but neither side wants to compromise on it. On the one hand you have the streamers/more competitive types who think their armor should just make them completely invulnerable and that they are entitled to turn their brain off. And on the other you have the lower-skilled playerbase that just wants to completely bypass progression, arguing for realism while one-tapping someone in the shoulder. I think the middle ground is having the exposed parts of the thorax take damage but have it be negated similar to how the legs/arms work. The fact that leg meta exists is proof that the armor and health system in Tarkov is just far too binary. You either completely penetrate armor in 1-4 shots or you might as well just drop your gun and run away, I think I speak for plenty of people when I say that we're fine with armor giving you protection. But for fucks sake sometimes I just wish it felt like I was using a real firearm.
They could very easily make armor more interesting. Ergo modifiers, with a baseline positive for no armor. I imagine wearing thicc heavy armor would make you aim your gun more slowly than a different pistol grip and stock would. I don't think this will ever happen, but a Boots slot would be fun too. Run/turn speed, running volume, stamina bonus. All kept minimal, but worth considering like headsets.
I also think lowering the durability of plates would be good so over time you can wear plates down (which is a direct nerf to the Shit W guys by penalizing getting into a lot of fights in one raid)
So i belive the new armor system could be made better with 2 simple changes. 1/4 the total durability of plates they protect you alot but for a short peroid of time then for a QOL allow click and drag of plates from one rig to another without needing to srop thing or use a bag so you can scavanage plates during raid
Need an in game poll to accurately get the feeling of all active players. Allot of the people that enjoyed the true to model armor probably Play PvE ifhey could. IRL armor is for confidence and a small increase in probability of survival. I still want a vitals hit box
Is that skill though if we get in a shootout and I shot you 10 times but my ammo doesn’t penetrate your armor/helmet but you shot me in the arm twice and killed Me with your high level ammo?
I kind of agree with you, kind of. Skills beyond the trigger and aim - Is picking the right ammo and kit for the job a skill!? It's applied knowledge I suppose. I'd say the skill comes in recognising what your opponent is wearing, what ammo they're likely carrying that'll determine how they want to engage. If we're just engaging when we run in to someone, then that's more the problem [in itself] than ammo. The split seconds it takes some streamers to guesstimate the kit the enemy is using and from just a glance always impresses me. Not taking pot shots when we don't have 'confidence inspiring' ammo and knowing when to just mag dump our 20-30, even 40+ pen ammo, I'd suggest was a skill relating to situational awareness. And then, not mag dumping into the chest but the fleshy bits. Yes our strawman has better ammo but you also know that you don't have that better ammo, you don't know that he has it but you know it's out there because "yours isn't it" - so approaching the engagement as if you're evenly matched is somewhat flawed. Swinging on players as if any ammo works just isn't the game, so while I kind of agree that yeah it's frustrating if we get off half a mag and only get blunt damage - the frustration should come from aiming at armour when we don't have ammo capable of dealing with it. It's obviously a skill to hit the enemy but we're somewhat beyond just that. If we're using the wrong tool for the job, I'd suggest it was a skill issue. Not 'shooting skill' but I'd suggest that those 10 shots would have done much more for you, aiming at the thighs in that situation.. We gotta use what we have to it's best, not acting like it's the AP ammo that allows us to just dump into the centre mass but recognising that we need to approach the engagement differently to the person with a meta kit.
High level ammo typically has less damage and higher pen. Your "lesser" ammo will do more flesh damage. Typically. When using lesser ammo you should be aiming for the arms and legs if not the face which is really where you should almost always be aiming.
@@rickybuhl3176 I agree with you bro there are ways around it but they typically require you to be higher skilled I’m a new player and I started the wipe late so I don’t have a chance against fully geared players unless of course I mag dump them in the face 100% accuracy before they shoot me twice anywhere lol
Lets not nerf the armor after we just spent 2 months arguing for an improvement. It's not perfect and I definitely can see a case for taking another pass on it. Right now we have the most access to some of the best armors in the game that's not even using the flea market. And to the contrary, The high penetration ammo was removed from the flea market and trader stores to be locked behind a quest to get the ability to craft it. And the thing is, When you die you ALWAYS lose your ammunition. But there is a decent chance you'll get your armor back maybe even with your plates in still. And with some of crafts we have available I know for sure when I was playing I had that level 5 plate craft in the hideout on repeat 24/7. So take all that into consideration I think BSG could introduce more quantities of AP ammo into either quest rewards, Craft unlocks earlier or in raid loot pools.
I had one idea to gameplay mechanics that would simulate real life: When you select night time without nwg, your eyes would take a while to adapt to darknes (or when you enter from brigt place to dark place) :D Does that soud silly?
As far as I can tell it appears that they are intending to balance ammo/armor by making adjustments to reach a result where no matter the armor or ammo you're using or are up against you will be able to kill your target with 4-6 thorax shots - focusing on the idea that majority players probably aim centre mass when engaging. Not 100% working yet but seems to be heading that way, this why the damage/pen stats are polarising for most rounds. This is why I think the soft armor is such a great addition imo.
@alarminglyfastmovingskelet7289 it seems to further help mitigate damage of high pen rounds that made it through the hard plates as the rounds pen/damage stats will further dissipate one can observe. Also, absorbing a lot of low pen high damage rounds naturally.
@@Iceberg366 I meant how does soft armor help the TTK remain consistent across all levels of progression like you suggested BSG was moving towards. If anything it's made progression even more polarized.
@alarminglyfastmovingskelet7289 as politely and co-operatively as possible (not intending to be a dick) - this seems to be demonstrated when using all the ranges of ammunition and calibres in game, the two layers allow more rounds to be tanked even when wearing tier 1-3 armor, obviously scaling in rng chance. The soft armour has helped players tank more of those high-end rounds - BP 7.62, BT 5.45, 55A1 - 5.56, M62, SP6. By allowing 2 tiers of armour to increase dissipation, or rather the chance of impact damage. The polarising observation of this could be that tier 4-6 armors absorb waaay more rounds from otherwise mid range ammos like PS or 56A1.
@gigabeef I did some testing with the empty raid as well. I can confirm what the above referenced mentioned and add to it. Each map apparently has a hard stop timer where it stops waiting and starts match. I can confirm on LH the time is 8:26/8:27 seconds. If you hit this time and the game final launch steps begin. You’re alone. At 8:17, you’re not. But at 8:26 it is true.
The whole loot scaling thing could explain why Shorline at the farm had awesome loot for me, during the last event, but has not had good loot for me since. Hard to tell.
I don't understand why they'd want to expand shoreline and woods. I'd honestly prefer if they condensed those maps and made them smaller and more dense.
Best compromise RE: Armor changes that I could think of would be to reduce plate size back to maybe a little bigger than it was at start of wipe, keeping the coverage/shape consistency, while also adding more hitboxes to the thorax and maybe head that have damage reduction modifiers. For example, a hit to the obliques or shoulder area does something like 60% damage, and maybe a neck shot does like 85% or whatever will allow one to just barely survive most assault rifle rounds.
It doesn't make any sense. Both from a gameplay and realism standpoints. It's obviously not realistic, and gameplay-wise it doesn't fix the issues people had with the armor hitboxes. You know what does fix the issues with the current armor? Adding good ammo back on traders and removing class 6 from them at the same time. It gets us right back where we were previously. Honestly, I'd remove all flea market restrictions on ammo as well, but obviously that's not an option... for some reason.
@@eeeeeeee543 nope. Vital organs don't produce realistic results without simulating terminal ballistics, and they suck for gameplay because the playerbase clearly just wants to tank more shots from low-pen rounds, so it goes against that desire.
People will cry for higher pen access, when they get it they'll cry that armor is worthless. This conundrum is permanent for bad players who always need an excuse to explain why they died.
I think it was Veritas or someone who said the Tarkov you fell in love with will not be the Tarkov that releases, and after that sentiment realization you just accept whatever happens. The days of .12 are long gone.
The change I'd like to see in place of the current meta.
1) The hit boxes are identical at the beginning of 0.14
2) A heart hitbox is present and is protected by armor, it has a damage multiplier that gives equivalent health to the head.
3) The calibers are found, from 5.45 to more than 1000 m/s > 9mm or other small caliber. The 7.62*54 is lethal whatever the zone of strike on the chest and whatever the penetration, i'm obviously talking about HP damage equal to or greater than 85 HP , do more damage that can decrease with distance depending on the weight of the bullet..
HP's care slowly heals all HP globals.
4) Black limbs can only be repaired once.
5) High-level armor piercing ammunition do more damage.
What is your goal with those changes? Have the TTK consistently being .25 seconds?
That would make every encounter benefit the first person with visual contact and lower the skill ceiling letting players(and AI) simply aim for the center of mass and kill immediately.
@@djones6211 Realism mod of SPT, it's just... Perfect. Look at klean...
@@djones6211don’t get shot
@@djones6211 "That would make every encounter benefit the first person with visual contact"
What do you think real life firefights are like? The majority of engagements are determined by who sees who first. Also the notion that this would lower the skill ceiling is hilarious, as using that information and translating it into an ambush is a skill in and of itself.
You just want the game to stay the mess that it currently is. Nobody wants to shoot someone 10+ times to kill them in a game that proclaims itself to be realistic.
I'm just going to parrot the opinion of a lot of other people. I genuinely didn't see anything wrong with the old armor hitboxes, and would have much rather seen them add more hitboxes to the thorax/stomach, while making the exposed parts like the armpits and shoulders have negative multipliers like the arms/legs. In my opinion there is a middle ground that can make everyone happy, but neither side wants to compromise on it.
On the one hand you have the streamers/more competitive types who think their armor should just make them completely invulnerable and that they are entitled to turn their brain off.
And on the other you have the lower-skilled playerbase that just wants to completely bypass progression, arguing for realism while one-tapping someone in the shoulder.
I think the middle ground is having the exposed parts of the thorax take damage but have it be negated similar to how the legs/arms work. The fact that leg meta exists is proof that the armor and health system in Tarkov is just far too binary. You either completely penetrate armor in 1-4 shots or you might as well just drop your gun and run away, I think I speak for plenty of people when I say that we're fine with armor giving you protection. But for fucks sake sometimes I just wish it felt like I was using a real firearm.
They could very easily make armor more interesting. Ergo modifiers, with a baseline positive for no armor. I imagine wearing thicc heavy armor would make you aim your gun more slowly than a different pistol grip and stock would.
I don't think this will ever happen, but a Boots slot would be fun too.
Run/turn speed, running volume, stamina bonus. All kept minimal, but worth considering like headsets.
Would love boots and gloves for cosmetic purposes too. Recoloring too
I also think lowering the durability of plates would be good so over time you can wear plates down (which is a direct nerf to the Shit W guys by penalizing getting into a lot of fights in one raid)
So i belive the new armor system could be made better with 2 simple changes. 1/4 the total durability of plates they protect you alot but for a short peroid of time then for a QOL allow click and drag of plates from one rig to another without needing to srop thing or use a bag so you can scavanage plates during raid
Need an in game poll to accurately get the feeling of all active players.
Allot of the people that enjoyed the true to model armor probably Play PvE ifhey could. IRL armor is for confidence and a small increase in probability of survival.
I still want a vitals hit box
Is that skill though if we get in a shootout and I shot you 10 times but my ammo doesn’t penetrate your armor/helmet but you shot me in the arm twice and killed Me with your high level ammo?
I kind of agree with you, kind of. Skills beyond the trigger and aim - Is picking the right ammo and kit for the job a skill!? It's applied knowledge I suppose. I'd say the skill comes in recognising what your opponent is wearing, what ammo they're likely carrying that'll determine how they want to engage. If we're just engaging when we run in to someone, then that's more the problem [in itself] than ammo. The split seconds it takes some streamers to guesstimate the kit the enemy is using and from just a glance always impresses me. Not taking pot shots when we don't have 'confidence inspiring' ammo and knowing when to just mag dump our 20-30, even 40+ pen ammo, I'd suggest was a skill relating to situational awareness. And then, not mag dumping into the chest but the fleshy bits. Yes our strawman has better ammo but you also know that you don't have that better ammo, you don't know that he has it but you know it's out there because "yours isn't it" - so approaching the engagement as if you're evenly matched is somewhat flawed. Swinging on players as if any ammo works just isn't the game, so while I kind of agree that yeah it's frustrating if we get off half a mag and only get blunt damage - the frustration should come from aiming at armour when we don't have ammo capable of dealing with it. It's obviously a skill to hit the enemy but we're somewhat beyond just that. If we're using the wrong tool for the job, I'd suggest it was a skill issue. Not 'shooting skill' but I'd suggest that those 10 shots would have done much more for you, aiming at the thighs in that situation.. We gotta use what we have to it's best, not acting like it's the AP ammo that allows us to just dump into the centre mass but recognising that we need to approach the engagement differently to the person with a meta kit.
High level ammo typically has less damage and higher pen.
Your "lesser" ammo will do more flesh damage. Typically.
When using lesser ammo you should be aiming for the arms and legs if not the face which is really where you should almost always be aiming.
If you were able to land 10 shots but none of them in a vital location then yes.
@@Tacti_cat it would have been a “vital location” if I had the same ammo he had lol
@@rickybuhl3176 I agree with you bro there are ways around it but they typically require you to be higher skilled I’m a new player and I started the wipe late so I don’t have a chance against fully geared players unless of course I mag dump them in the face 100% accuracy before they shoot me twice anywhere lol
I just had my thermal paste wick out from under my cooler. Had to clean everything with alcohol and repaste. PC runs great again.
Lets not nerf the armor after we just spent 2 months arguing for an improvement. It's not perfect and I definitely can see a case for taking another pass on it.
Right now we have the most access to some of the best armors in the game that's not even using the flea market. And to the contrary, The high penetration ammo was removed from the flea market and trader stores to be locked behind a quest to get the ability to craft it.
And the thing is, When you die you ALWAYS lose your ammunition. But there is a decent chance you'll get your armor back maybe even with your plates in still. And with some of crafts we have available I know for sure when I was playing I had that level 5 plate craft in the hideout on repeat 24/7. So take all that into consideration I think BSG could introduce more quantities of AP ammo into either quest rewards, Craft unlocks earlier or in raid loot pools.
I had one idea to gameplay mechanics that would simulate real life: When you select night time without nwg, your eyes would take a while to adapt to darknes (or when you enter from brigt place to dark place) :D Does that soud silly?
No, not at all. Many games do this too in fact. ua-cam.com/video/6uZ1RUYmhgQ/v-deo.html
As far as I can tell it appears that they are intending to balance ammo/armor by making adjustments to reach a result where no matter the armor or ammo you're using or are up against you will be able to kill your target with 4-6 thorax shots - focusing on the idea that majority players probably aim centre mass when engaging. Not 100% working yet but seems to be heading that way, this why the damage/pen stats are polarising for most rounds. This is why I think the soft armor is such a great addition imo.
How does the soft armor play into your theory?
@alarminglyfastmovingskelet7289 it seems to further help mitigate damage of high pen rounds that made it through the hard plates as the rounds pen/damage stats will further dissipate one can observe. Also, absorbing a lot of low pen high damage rounds naturally.
@@Iceberg366 I meant how does soft armor help the TTK remain consistent across all levels of progression like you suggested BSG was moving towards. If anything it's made progression even more polarized.
@alarminglyfastmovingskelet7289 as politely and co-operatively as possible (not intending to be a dick) - this seems to be demonstrated when using all the ranges of ammunition and calibres in game, the two layers allow more rounds to be tanked even when wearing tier 1-3 armor, obviously scaling in rng chance.
The soft armour has helped players tank more of those high-end rounds - BP 7.62, BT 5.45, 55A1 - 5.56, M62, SP6. By allowing 2 tiers of armour to increase dissipation, or rather the chance of impact damage. The polarising observation of this could be that tier 4-6 armors absorb waaay more rounds from otherwise mid range ammos like PS or 56A1.
@gigabeef I did some testing with the empty raid as well. I can confirm what the above referenced mentioned and add to it. Each map apparently has a hard stop timer where it stops waiting and starts match. I can confirm on LH the time is 8:26/8:27 seconds. If you hit this time and the game final launch steps begin. You’re alone. At 8:17, you’re not. But at 8:26 it is true.
GIga troll's face at 29:21 is AWESOME hahaha
The whole loot scaling thing could explain why Shorline at the farm had awesome loot for me, during the last event, but has not had good loot for me since. Hard to tell.
Correct me if I'm wrong but 545 BS has a trade on prapor still right
I don't think so anymore, but he used too im pretty sure. escapefromtarkov.fandom.com/wiki/5.45x39mm_BS_gs
@@ScavTalk I don't know if it would have mattered it was only 30 rounds a trade so 90-150 a reset isn't a lot even top loading
Not too crazy, if you look at the Arena Tasks lol.
I don't understand why they'd want to expand shoreline and woods. I'd honestly prefer if they condensed those maps and made them smaller and more dense.
Pve!!! 🎉
If max trader ammo got bumped up one tier , like BS and bp on Parpor , m855A1 on peacekeeper, would people complain about that ?
Best compromise RE: Armor changes that I could think of would be to reduce plate size back to maybe a little bigger than it was at start of wipe, keeping the coverage/shape consistency, while also adding more hitboxes to the thorax and maybe head that have damage reduction modifiers. For example, a hit to the obliques or shoulder area does something like 60% damage, and maybe a neck shot does like 85% or whatever will allow one to just barely survive most assault rifle rounds.
It doesn't make any sense. Both from a gameplay and realism standpoints. It's obviously not realistic, and gameplay-wise it doesn't fix the issues people had with the armor hitboxes. You know what does fix the issues with the current armor? Adding good ammo back on traders and removing class 6 from them at the same time. It gets us right back where we were previously. Honestly, I'd remove all flea market restrictions on ammo as well, but obviously that's not an option... for some reason.
What makes sense for realism and gameplay is having realistic plate sizes for each type of armor, and vital organ hitboxes
@@eeeeeeee543 nope. Vital organs don't produce realistic results without simulating terminal ballistics, and they suck for gameplay because the playerbase clearly just wants to tank more shots from low-pen rounds, so it goes against that desire.
@@ForOne814 by playerbase you mean you and your imaginary friends?
@@eeeeeeee543 no, me and my real friends liked the system. But redditoids clearly didn't.
Woods is big enough and already had a recent refresh.
No way they are adding to woods.
This is the new factory map. Factory with outdoor sections now.
Outdoor factory combined with customs would be epic
People will cry for higher pen access, when they get it they'll cry that armor is worthless. This conundrum is permanent for bad players who always need an excuse to explain why they died.
I think it was Veritas or someone who said the Tarkov you fell in love with will not be the Tarkov that releases, and after that sentiment realization you just accept whatever happens. The days of .12 are long gone.
0.12 is a pale shadow of what we have now. 0.14 is far superior
@@tlkensei2nay you fools, for it it is the great 0.13 that should be revered and worshipped! A pox upon all non-believers 😅