When it comes to callbacks, cameos, and catharisis, I feel like "fanservice" is when you have unearned payoff that still manages to land, whereas stuff like "key jangling" is when it doesn't and so the audience sees right through it and rejects it. Its the difference between "Deadpool & Wolverine" vs "Borderlands". Both movies are meant for the same audience and yet one was a resounding success while the other was a massive flop.
I was today years old when I found out fan service basically means T&A. I've always assumed fan service referred to things like cameos from popular characters, referencing classic costumes and storylines, and fun easter eggs hidden in the background.
@@carlgibson285 I think it’s the difference between manga and then the likes of comics, if we’re talking about fan service in manga/anime then we’re just talking about T&A, that’s what fan service means with that, but if someone mentions it in comics or movies then it can mean other things.
@@InfamyOrDeath-__- that explains it. I've never been hugely into manga although I've enjoyed what I've read (Fullmetal Alchemist, Deathnote, Outlanders, Akira and Ghost In The Shell, but that's pretty much it) so I'm not familiar with most manga terminology.
Fan service is okay in small doses. It was a bit too much in the early Image/Top Cow days. Unfortunately, we seem to have gone too much in the other direction. That's how we end up with whatever Spider-Man has turned into.
This is what I love about manga, all the fan service, it was the first thing I noticed when I switched from comics to manga. Because there’s barely any in comics but it’s everywhere in manga. Entire series built entirely around fan service, and they’re great haha.
Perch may be confusing Peter David with John Byrne. Byrne *hated* fan service and I've seen him express something like "giving the fans what they want is the *last* thing you should do." Keep in mind that Byrne wanted to have the Shaper of Worlds alter history and put Peter Parker back in high school in the late 1990s. Arguments against fan service sometimes come from adult fans who are now in control of the story. "Fan service" may be bad, but people who oppose fan service sometimes become toxic and seem to want to aggravate the fans in response. If you're not going to service the fans, maybe try satisfying them instead.
To me, fan service is giving fans what they want. (Kinda obvious.) It doesn't have to be sexual. I like old school Superman, so when Gail Simone Tweeted images of a new Superman story with Clark wearing a fedora, I couldn't stop smiling! That is definitely fan service. Might try to pick up those issues of Action the next time I'm in a comics shop.
The whole problem I have with fan service right now is the fact that I have a prepubescent son and a 10-year-old daughter that I'm trying to share this hobby that I love with. So when we're about to watch a movie, and then the main character wakes up and changes her bra for no reason and her tits are hanging out, that's a problem for me. It makes it where I have to watch every movie twice because I need to scan it first to see if there's inappropriate stuff there. As a result, I end up having to cut them out of a lot of the anime we watch all together, and then we only end up watching little kids stuff that neither of us really enjoy because I don't want their passions awakened at such a young age.
I was kind of lucky I have got a mixed bag of mostly live action films with no nudity/sex. So I found plenty to watch with the 6 year old now 11 over the years. Started off with TLOTR at six and the last current film we watched together was Nobody. They seem to love OTT action, monster and creature stuff. They bugged me about the worst movie to watch in my collection for them. So we watched JC The Thing when they was 10. Didn't phase them and no nightmares. That film still freaks me out today. So I tried them on Punisher Warzone and again fine. I think when we have almost photo realistic graphics in gaming? The kids thesedays aren't as easily shocked as my generation. I grew into that changing technology. They was born into this photo releastic gaming look. I have played RE co-op games with them. They are both gross and gory, but no swearing though.
I went and bought Geiger #2-5 yesterday. (I already had #1.) I'm leaning towards going all in on Ghost Machine for some original reading at this point. I also decided to drop Ultimate Black Panther, X-Men, and Ultimates from my pull list. I think they're just not doing it for me. Although I still got Ultimates #4 yesterday and it was probably the best issue of the series to date, albeit quite depressing. The Maker is basically Reverse Flash now.
@@HonduranHoneymoonhon I actually started reading manga 4 years ago, when I first read Berserk, it was 3 years ago when I dropped all comics & switched entirely to manga. But “we” as in everyone, we collectively didn’t know who they were.
When I think of fan service I think of giving customers what they want. I don’t necessarily think of scantily clad people but I certainly want to see pretty art and a good story wouldn’t hurt either.
As a longtime gamer I have not read IGN for over maybe a decade or more. Good fan service is listening to fans about how bad Sonic looked and how true to game they made it look after. Bad fan service, but also the rule of cool was Rogue One Vader corridor scene. It recontextualizes the Obi-wan vs Vader Death Star fight as Vader playing with and really holding back with Obi-wan. That Vader could of demolished Luke in the throne room scene in RoTJ. It makes Luke look a bit shit as a Jedi now as Vader was really, really holding back. Mass Effect 3 revised extended ending was bad fan service as it didn't really fix the bad ending.
I can't criticize your Sid Vicious comments, my first thoughts were the Shockmaster reveal, "HALF THE BRAIN," and that bad leg injury he got before WCW went under (except, maybe, that they remained thoughts.) I'm iffy on the more revealing form of fanservice for my stories - I agree that comics could use more beauty, but I don't want that to give way to pure lust - but I definitely agree that giving fans things they want can only help people like it more. It's part of why I hate some of the modern day criticism of "memberberries" and "I SAW THAT AND I CLAPPED!" - there is a fine line between desperate pandering for goodwill and organically calling back to previous works. Companies absolutely go too far in trying to pander, but not every callback is a memberberry. RLM's criticisms of Rogue One for this are especially stupid - how DARE a movie that takes place right before Episode IV have the same technology!
Just for the record, Alan Moore was not the sole author of Watchmen, which was co-created by Dave Gibbons, who had considerable influence on the story. In fact, if you construe Rorschach's violence as "fan service", it was created by both Moore's writing and Gibbons' drawing (plus the colouring!). Perch, please give proper credit to the artists, the co-creators of comic books!
11:13 I beg to differ, there’s so many anime that people solely watch for fan service. I remember when Crunchy actually had comments there would be endless comments saying “I came for the plot” haha.
@@AL-ws5yi Yea I loved the comments section, but the worst is taking the reviews away, I would always check the reviews to get a feel for whether I’d like an anime or not, removing them was an absolute joke.
what does Comics by Perch fan service look like? Pothole and traffic commentary, audio cutting out at least once for 5 seconds, and bad comics pitches ;P
Alan Moore has straight up made porn. Him complaining about fanservice is silly. If the situation is believable, even if only in that world, I can accept fanservice if it isn't gratuitous. That's not to say it isn't blatantly obvious why they made those decisions to tell that story (might as well be porn) but I'm trying to get into the world. Succeed there and I can accept a lot.
@@ComicsPerchAt a glance, apparently it's some guy in the grading and slabbing community who tries to gotcha dealers. 🤷🏼♀️ Given that your channel is more about the industry and content and seldom if ever about the collector's market, you can probably pass on this one.
I've always taken fan service to mean sexual displays, as your images for this video also suggested. I don't think your statement about Rorschach, or whatever news site saying Deadpool has fan service would be depicting fan service(I didn't see the movie, but your example was of Gambit, so I'm assuming the article didn't mean it about scantily clad girls). I don't think those are a problem. Back to the fan service which means sexual stuff. In theory, if our society wasn't so degenerate, fan service in comics would probably be okay, but given that our society is so degenerate, fan service is just part of the same degenerating engine.
Example of fan service the entire The Force Awakens. JJ also tried to do some in Rise of the Skywalker to retcon TLJ. Oh and the second JJ Star Trek with Khan. We the audience knew who Khan was, but Kirk and crew had no idea. So Khan had no conective tissue with Kirk and crew in that film.
When it comes to callbacks, cameos, and catharisis, I feel like "fanservice" is when you have unearned payoff that still manages to land, whereas stuff like "key jangling" is when it doesn't and so the audience sees right through it and rejects it.
Its the difference between "Deadpool & Wolverine" vs "Borderlands". Both movies are meant for the same audience and yet one was a resounding success while the other was a massive flop.
I was today years old when I found out fan service basically means T&A. I've always assumed fan service referred to things like cameos from popular characters, referencing classic costumes and storylines, and fun easter eggs hidden in the background.
It can refer to those things as well. The meaning of fan service has expanded beyond t&a.
Haha, same!
Haha, same!
@@carlgibson285 I think it’s the difference between manga and then the likes of comics, if we’re talking about fan service in manga/anime then we’re just talking about T&A, that’s what fan service means with that, but if someone mentions it in comics or movies then it can mean other things.
@@InfamyOrDeath-__- that explains it. I've never been hugely into manga although I've enjoyed what I've read (Fullmetal Alchemist, Deathnote, Outlanders, Akira and Ghost In The Shell, but that's pretty much it) so I'm not familiar with most manga terminology.
You'd think that in a video about fan service, Perch would include some K-Pop.
Ikr?
Fan service is okay in small doses. It was a bit too much in the early Image/Top Cow days. Unfortunately, we seem to have gone too much in the other direction. That's how we end up with whatever Spider-Man has turned into.
Essentially - this is the eternal debate of commercial vs. personal art.
This is what I love about manga, all the fan service, it was the first thing I noticed when I switched from comics to manga. Because there’s barely any in comics but it’s everywhere in manga. Entire series built entirely around fan service, and they’re great haha.
Perch may be confusing Peter David with John Byrne. Byrne *hated* fan service and I've seen him express something like "giving the fans what they want is the *last* thing you should do."
Keep in mind that Byrne wanted to have the Shaper of Worlds alter history and put Peter Parker back in high school in the late 1990s. Arguments against fan service sometimes come from adult fans who are now in control of the story.
"Fan service" may be bad, but people who oppose fan service sometimes become toxic and seem to want to aggravate the fans in response. If you're not going to service the fans, maybe try satisfying them instead.
Picard s01-02 vs Picard s03
‘nuff said
To me, fan service is giving fans what they want. (Kinda obvious.) It doesn't have to be sexual. I like old school Superman, so when Gail Simone Tweeted images of a new Superman story with Clark wearing a fedora, I couldn't stop smiling! That is definitely fan service. Might try to pick up those issues of Action the next time I'm in a comics shop.
Exactly.
[Tom King is talented at Tom King fan service]
Collecting his books is what they call a diminishing rate of return.
Whatever sells books!😅
What about Nuclear Launch Codes and your Banking Information?
@@HonduranHoneymoonhonnot sure my bank account would sell much of anything!
Brett Booth you rock, best speedster art since Ringo.
The whole problem I have with fan service right now is the fact that I have a prepubescent son and a 10-year-old daughter that I'm trying to share this hobby that I love with. So when we're about to watch a movie, and then the main character wakes up and changes her bra for no reason and her tits are hanging out, that's a problem for me. It makes it where I have to watch every movie twice because I need to scan it first to see if there's inappropriate stuff there. As a result, I end up having to cut them out of a lot of the anime we watch all together, and then we only end up watching little kids stuff that neither of us really enjoy because I don't want their passions awakened at such a young age.
Unfortunately, I have to agree. There’s also stuff I forgot was in it so then when we start watching it’s like oops, nope! Change the channel. 😅
I was kind of lucky I have got a mixed bag of mostly live action films with no nudity/sex. So I found plenty to watch with the 6 year old now 11 over the years. Started off with TLOTR at six and the last current film we watched together was Nobody. They seem to love OTT action, monster and creature stuff. They bugged me about the worst movie to watch in my collection for them. So we watched JC The Thing when they was 10. Didn't phase them and no nightmares. That film still freaks me out today. So I tried them on Punisher Warzone and again fine. I think when we have almost photo realistic graphics in gaming? The kids thesedays aren't as easily shocked as my generation. I grew into that changing technology. They was born into this photo releastic gaming look. I have played RE co-op games with them. They are both gross and gory, but no swearing though.
Is it a coincidence that I get a Temu ad with a lingerie model right after Perch's fan service video?
No. Perch is really China's Premier and he wants to secretly corrupt all of us decadent Americans.
Too many people have forgotten that sex sells.
The great example of Fan service it was Wolverine Mask in the deadpool and wolverine.
My theatre trembled with the fans reaction.
I went and bought Geiger #2-5 yesterday. (I already had #1.) I'm leaning towards going all in on Ghost Machine for some original reading at this point.
I also decided to drop Ultimate Black Panther, X-Men, and Ultimates from my pull list. I think they're just not doing it for me. Although I still got Ultimates #4 yesterday and it was probably the best issue of the series to date, albeit quite depressing. The Maker is basically Reverse Flash now.
Redcoat is the strongest of the line
@@clonegeek3317agreed, junkyard joe was something too tho 🔥
“Keijo begins with the butt” sounds like Joe Corallo guessing a manga title.
6:20 For ages we didn’t even know if the mangaka for Demon Slayer was a man or a woman, no one knew.
what do you mean 'we'?
You started reading Japanese comics like 2 years ago.
@@HonduranHoneymoonhon I actually started reading manga 4 years ago, when I first read Berserk, it was 3 years ago when I dropped all comics & switched entirely to manga.
But “we” as in everyone, we collectively didn’t know who they were.
There was a wrestler named Sid Viscous? I was like, dude, you are LATE to the party if you think he just died.
This video was recorded some time ago.
@@ComicsPerchin 1979
Tom King is really good at working with Clay Mann.
When I think of fan service I think of giving customers what they want. I don’t necessarily think of scantily clad people but I certainly want to see pretty art and a good story wouldn’t hurt either.
As a longtime gamer I have not read IGN for over maybe a decade or more. Good fan service is listening to fans about how bad Sonic looked and how true to game they made it look after. Bad fan service, but also the rule of cool was Rogue One Vader corridor scene. It recontextualizes the Obi-wan vs Vader Death Star fight as Vader playing with and really holding back with Obi-wan. That Vader could of demolished Luke in the throne room scene in RoTJ. It makes Luke look a bit shit as a Jedi now as Vader was really, really holding back. Mass Effect 3 revised extended ending was bad fan service as it didn't really fix the bad ending.
A very tasteful video, Perch. Quite the man of culture, I see. Much appreciated. 👍
They even do it for the girls. Look at the latest alternative cover for the paprika comic.
Deadpool vs wolverine is female fanservice too.
I can't criticize your Sid Vicious comments, my first thoughts were the Shockmaster reveal, "HALF THE BRAIN," and that bad leg injury he got before WCW went under (except, maybe, that they remained thoughts.)
I'm iffy on the more revealing form of fanservice for my stories - I agree that comics could use more beauty, but I don't want that to give way to pure lust - but I definitely agree that giving fans things they want can only help people like it more. It's part of why I hate some of the modern day criticism of "memberberries" and "I SAW THAT AND I CLAPPED!" - there is a fine line between desperate pandering for goodwill and organically calling back to previous works. Companies absolutely go too far in trying to pander, but not every callback is a memberberry. RLM's criticisms of Rogue One for this are especially stupid - how DARE a movie that takes place right before Episode IV have the same technology!
Just for the record, Alan Moore was not the sole author of Watchmen, which was co-created by Dave Gibbons, who had considerable influence on the story. In fact, if you construe Rorschach's violence as "fan service", it was created by both Moore's writing and Gibbons' drawing (plus the colouring!). Perch, please give proper credit to the artists, the co-creators of comic books!
11:13 I beg to differ, there’s so many anime that people solely watch for fan service. I remember when Crunchy actually had comments there would be endless comments saying “I came for the plot” haha.
I hate that Crunchyroll did that.
@@AL-ws5yi Yea I loved the comments section, but the worst is taking the reviews away, I would always check the reviews to get a feel for whether I’d like an anime or not, removing them was an absolute joke.
I think its Chatum Tunning. Or Tunning Chatum. Does it even matter?
This is what happens when you give stupid names to kids.
what does Comics by Perch fan service look like?
Pothole and traffic commentary, audio cutting out at least once for 5 seconds, and bad comics pitches ;P
Alan Moore has straight up made porn. Him complaining about fanservice is silly.
If the situation is believable, even if only in that world, I can accept fanservice if it isn't gratuitous. That's not to say it isn't blatantly obvious why they made those decisions to tell that story (might as well be porn) but I'm trying to get into the world. Succeed there and I can accept a lot.
Perch what do you think of this sticky goose you tuber drama.
I have no idea what that is, and suspect I don’t want to know.
@@ComicsPerchAt a glance, apparently it's some guy in the grading and slabbing community who tries to gotcha dealers. 🤷🏼♀️
Given that your channel is more about the industry and content and seldom if ever about the collector's market, you can probably pass on this one.
I've always taken fan service to mean sexual displays, as your images for this video also suggested.
I don't think your statement about Rorschach, or whatever news site saying Deadpool has fan service would be depicting fan service(I didn't see the movie, but your example was of Gambit, so I'm assuming the article didn't mean it about scantily clad girls).
I don't think those are a problem.
Back to the fan service which means sexual stuff.
In theory, if our society wasn't so degenerate, fan service in comics would probably be okay, but given that our society is so degenerate, fan service is just part of the same degenerating engine.
Example of fan service the entire The Force Awakens. JJ also tried to do some in Rise of the Skywalker to retcon TLJ. Oh and the second JJ Star Trek with Khan. We the audience knew who Khan was, but Kirk and crew had no idea. So Khan had no conective tissue with Kirk and crew in that film.
@@PrivateCitizen84 Idk what I would have called either of those things.
Comic books are unhealthy. Comic fandom is unhealthy.
T&A does not move the needle for me.