Cost of Plastic - Heroes of Land, Air and Sea Review
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2018
- Music by:
Kevin MacLeod - incompetech.net
Juanitos
Bensound.com
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BGG Review list - boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/17... - Ігри
I honestly prefer NEGATIVE reviewers than the always sunny, everything is great type. I have a game reviewer friend that said to me once "Publishers will stop sending me games if I don't give positive reviews". So if a game is bad he just doesn't publish the review. Thanks for being honest, I appreciate it.
My thing is if the reviewer likes narrative games they probably shouldn’t play 4x games lol
Baa Humbug if you are a good reviewer what you "like" should not enter into it. I dont like abstract games but objectively Azul is a great game. Now as a consumer, I dont own Azul for that reason. The fact this game doesn't fit on the shelf is objectively terrible design.
bkLEGION3000 yeah he makes a bit of good points no doubt. I just thought it was a weird conclusion. I mean 4x games in general is all about making your own story. I get this is probably not his type of game. I do also get that the battle system is clunky. Scyth is a weird recommendation because it’s not even close to the same theme. Maybe recommend a game with a more mideval fantasy theme
Do you go into 4X for the theme or for the mechanics? "4X" is literally a description of mechanics, so I'd say those are more important than theme. And Scythe IS very close to this in the general flow of - start building up your engine on your own little piece of land, and when you've made decent progress, you head out to butt heads with other players. Also in that it's actually 3X because eXplore refers to revealing the map, which neither Scythe nor this game does (although they both containt exploration tokens, but that's not the right kind of exploration).
Kraemet that is true that he was comparing it to sythe more from a mechanic standpoint but can’t “recommend” a game instead if the theme is way off. People buy games because of theme too. If they didn’t than they might as well make my little pony games. If he wants to compare mechanics fine, but recommendations should also be viewed with theme
I really like this game for a more casual 4x experience, either with less dedicated gamers or if you're just wanting to push little people around and hang out. It doesn't have much of a narrative, as you point out, but it certainly creates memorable moments. It's simple, quick, very little downtime, easy to teach. I had it and sold it, for many of the reasons you pointed out but over time I really regretted not having it. I never found another 4X game that was so accessible. I really like that everything scores points too, it makes it more of a sandbox, you can play how you like and not be too punished for not making the right decisions. Great gateway game, great casual game, high "toy" factor, I love it.
The Half a Centimeter thing alone is enough to break my spirit.
P.S. I see you Crystal Clans, whose unique factions reinvigorate my spirit.
Holy crap... that is the biggest board game I've ever seen. So love you Es
I've played this game probably 11 times since March and I love it. I haven't had someone play it that didn't have a good time.
I absolutely love it, but I can see it's not as universal as, say, scythe. And it is certainly not as polished as, say, scythe :)
The miniatures though are the best for the price and im painting them (they're in BGG forum)
@@Polovene Ewww Scythe
@@Polovene It's definitely a matter of taste. Scythe tries to be an area control game when it's really an engine builder disguised as one. I understand why people like Scythe, but it just isn't my thing. For my taste I would argue that HoLAS is more polished because it knows that it wants to be and executes on it well, even if it doesn't reach the wider audience Scythe does. In the end it doesn't matter; As long as you're playing what you like we can all be happy!
@@notjux I agree with you here. Scythe to me is boring and HoLAS is exciting. In Scythe, you wait too much during other player's turn and it doesn't feel rewarding as the most important factor of the game is just been efficient with your actions. If I would do 3 games of Scythe with the same race, I would probably do the same things in the first 3 turns or so. To me, this isn't a sign of a good game. In HoLAS, you are engaged during other player's turn and you have this feeling of freedom as you build your engine in different efficient ways. Sure Scythe have a more define and unique art direction and take less spaces but it's all I can think of for what makes Scythe great.
Madness! Complete and utter madness! Board game components in a fried chicken container! You of all people should know better. Board games are no food.
The best part about that bit was later seeing the sleeved cards.
KFC? 🤔 you've got to try, Popeye's. Hands down, best fried Chicken! 🍗
Well it’s a choking hazard
Thank you for proposing alternative games that might appeal to those who are interested in this one. That’s a really useful thing to have in a review!
The issue is that TI 4 will go 12 hours in your first playthrough and then average time will usually be 6 hours (according to what people have told me). Realistically Heroes of Land Air and Sea will be better suited for groups like mine where college/work conflict with gaming.
my 2 cents: if you have ever seen a Starcraft 2 pro match, you ll know the most important thing is to scout what ur opponent is doing and counter it. to be able to do it u have to know really well ur units, abilities and for the others as well. i feel after a few plays with this game, the same applies here. u can not and do not have to build all buildings and all heroes. but choose a way, combo it and adapt if that doesn't work out. i think as long you don't really understand your faction's strength this isn't a too exciting game.
Thank you very much for this review.. I've heard nothing but glowing praise to date, so all perspectives really help
Evaldas I miss you buddy. You guys crack me up
Miss you too!
Glad to see a lot of support in the comments for your honesty and integrity, I mirror the opinion that your relationship with the publisher will likely be unharmed!
Thanks for the review, it definitely cemented the doubts I had on the games way back when it was in its FIRST KS campaign.
Overall I loved this video, the script felt really quick and compact, in a good way, and I enjoyed the cheeky moving camera shot near the end.
Hi you two. Great review, and love the Pet Sounds vinyl hanging out in the background. I've been meaning to work that into Rook & Record once I finally find the right game for it... Anyway, keep up the amazing work & cheers from Alaska!
Is Efka losing weight? He looks great!
Awesome review! Thanks for this older, but relevant video.
Thanks for the video. I was interested in the KS, and am still interested in trying the game. It looks like it'd be a fun time.
I appreciate it when board game reviewers take time to make a video for a game that didn't meet expectations. I don't like the KS culture, I rarely back kickstarters and prefer to play games before I purchase them. I also think it's reasonable to expect to pay $60 or less for a solid 2-3 hour board game. However, I do appreciate that Kickstarter has raised visibility of board games, inspires more people to create games, and has been a catalyst for an overall quality improvement in game aesthetics. The board game environment seems to be more competitive, and more diverse as a result. (No thanks to CMON.)
I don't think you're at risk of damaging your relationship with Gamelyn. They're good people, and I bet they can accept criticism. But beyond that, this game is going to sell well. Gamelyn designed a game that will appeal to a lot of people regardless of how much they may have missed the mark, and as they say, "Business heals all wounds".
Keep up the great work!
Totally agree. I am the same way i like to get some opinions my self form reviews/play a game before i even think about buying it. So if no one reviews it who's opinion i trust i won't even look at it. From my position a board game company can never lose a sale from a review only gain them.
I love Elaine's meeple necklace! Oh yeah, and also the whole review was fabulous. :)
Really enjoyed the review. Honest , technical and funny as always
Awesome review! Fidelity is priceless, an honest review is the only thing that can really give us the information we need. With time we get to know you and your taste for games, and every opinion becomes very informative, to the point where we can identify if we would like a game, even though you didn't.
Love the video and the honesty, thank you.
I bought this game to set it up and look at it and it hasn’t disappointed. Still hold out hope of one day playing it
Love the London Eye joke. Me and my girlfriend were going to go on it but instead used the same amount of money on the arcade next door. It was hours of fun.
Great review as always. I spy Stuffed Fables and am anxiously awaiting your review on that.
I appreciate the honest review, I got a similar sense when I read the reviews and saw some gameplay videos and decided not to back it. I am glad I did!
The Assassin’s Creed shot was brilliant! I love you two!
I enjoy tiny epic kingdoms, also from gamelyn, which seems to be kind of similar to this. I like it because the small footprint and quick playing time dampens the anger. It also has a bunch of different people to try out. This almost feels like the step from 2D to 3D video games to me. Yes 3D feels more real but 2D is done easier so there is more space to care for gameplay.
really love your honest review
As ppl have said I really appreciate you guys for having such integrity to call out games like this.
Friends thank you for saving me so much money. Sorry you aren’t at GENCON this year. Keep up the clever work. Will keep backing you.
Thank you so very much! I honestly had a dream tonight that I had secretly booked a flight to Gen Con and was going to surprise all my friends with a surprise appearance. If only...
I played this near when it was released/delivered from kickstarter and I had totally forgotten until partway into the review. Which kind of tells how much of an impression it left on me.
For what its worth I have played this game once and really enjoyed it. So did the three others I played with, with one of them a non boardgamer. The simultaneous action selection kept the game moving and we completed a 4 player game, all new to the game in under 4 hours with one heavy AP player with the same player purposely extending the game. What did I learn? This game rewards fighting and I am unsure if one who does not fight could win the game. Win or lose fighting is rewarded. Pro: Fun , "quick" 4x game that rewards fighting. Lots of upgrade paths. Con: If you want a strict economic builder this is likely not the right game. Price. Neutral: Lacks the depth of TI4, but is offset by quicker gameplay. Likely lacks the long term replayability of TI4 as well. Conclusion: Overall I think its a good game with its biggest or I should say my biggest complaint being price.
I was originally going to get Star Trek Ascendancy instead of Twilight Imperium, due to ST:A looking like a faster game as well as protesting the love of Twilight Imperium lol but I have been doing research due to my smaller budget and some people have said that Twilight Imperium 4 is cleaner and could be as long as ST:A.
I picked up Ascendancy and love it, but it does play long. I haven't played a game that was under 2 hours per player. We did a 4 player game that was 8 hours and a 3 player game that was 6 hours. I'm planning on picking up Heroes and hoping that it is a nice option for a faster 4X that still has a lot of depth.
@@SplitScreenGamer I LOVE Heroes of Land Air and Sea! So far I played it twice, the first time was me, my wife, and an AI Player, took us about 8ish hours (interruptions/learning). The second time I played with two of my friends (Their first time) took us roughly 3 hours.
Thank you guys for being honest! I felt the exact same way about this and was terrified there was something wrong with me. Nah turns out it's as bad as I thought it was. Kudos
Willing to bet that their next review is going to be for Rising 5! Very sneaky you two!
Great review!
Super funny review guys, keep it up
Great stuff. Subscribed.
When it comes to this game, it definitely seems like it requires some "craft"iness to wage a proper "war."
I now know what to buy and not buy based on your channel. Everything you don't like I do and everything you do like, I havent been a fan of (Of those Ive played). In essence if you say I hate this that's an immediate buy for me :) You folks are pretty funny and keep cranking out content. I will not be playing lowlands based on your review.
Just wait till that one time you buy a very expensive game and find that we agree on it. That'll be a hoot :P
Adam Stansbery have you tried Great Western Trail? I have yet to find a human alive who didn't at least like that game. I mean Gloomhaven&Concordia are hard to disagree with aswell lol.
Casey you obviously didn't see the rant on the board game geek Facebook page a while back this one guy hated GWT. I haven't played it yet even though it sits on a shelf very near me and I've even slept beside it once or twice.
OK to be fair I did watch your top 10 and I do like your number 6 Great western trail :)
You are correct I didnt know they liked it till I watched their top 10.
Excellent video. BTW if Heros of Land air and sea is a game you thought you'd like but don't, how about you review a game you don't think you'll like. E. G. "Lords of Hellas" and maybe you'll be surprised.
Maybe because they get more joy out of telling someone about a good game than warning them off a bad one? So they don't go looking for trouble when it's clear they will be biased going into it. Just my guess.
This has become my board game groups favorite game and we play it at least once a month now.
Totally agree, your review is spot on
The Assassins creed bird view had me in tears
I was wondering about this one, but skipped the kickstarters because the price seemed too high. Good to know I was right.
Great review!! I love the game but you got everything on point!!!!
Awesome review, pretty much why I realised it's not for me when it came up on kickstarter.
THANK YOU for being brave enough to post an honest negative review! For reasons you (and others) have already explained, these come out few and far between, and they're arguably the most important to hear, even if you do end up loving the game in question.
Hoping I enjoy this one. Seems like our tastes align about 50% of the time. Still almost a year until the 2nd kickstarter arrives and I am sure I will be able to trade it if it isn't my cup of tea. Thanks for the review!
I just bought the game after missing the KS as an add on to another KS. I found this video looking for a play-through. ive seen some of your other videos... Gloomhaven after backing that. I am now a subscriber because of your honest feedback. You are also an incredibly funny duo. I truly appreciate your effort and honesty. Thanks for being you!
good review and well explained, thanks. The art work does like so freemium mobile game!
Keep killing it guys!!!
I do like Gamelyn Games, but their "Tiny Epic" stuff. They're a series of games that value space and, as you said, stuff a box full of bits and pieces without having to dedicate an entire room to storage. Sure the Tiny Epic games are the epitome of "They're pretty alright" and I use them mainly to play with my younger sister and the less initiated board game player, but they're cheap and effective.
I looked at the Kickstarter for Heroes of Land, Air & Sea and thought "I like the bits, but it's big and expensive" and I'm glad to see a review that addresses a lack of... substance, beyond the bits.
Honest review awesome, thanks.
I know a lot of reviewers will not spend time reviewing a game they didn't like but I really appreciate negative reviews as well as positive and that you put just as much time and thoughtfulness into them both. Particularly when it's not just 'X is a bad game' but rather 'here's what we don't like about X and maybe it represents some problems beyond the scope of just this game'. Thank you for your hard work and, as always, the entertaining manner in which you frame it. Whether folks agree or not, I think that the resulting discussions are really valuable.
Okay, I've played this again and I can safely say that I agree with you 100%.
Blood Shed! I can´t stop laughing. Epic!
Kudos for the (somewhat)negative review, I find them quite helpful. I know it probably isn't as fun to have to play such games in preparation for a review, but please do continue doing these.
Great video!!!
Very entertaining video, as always! You two are great....wrong, but great!
I feel your pain with the kallax shelves. haha
Great video, thank you for showing us this huge game. Even though this is a negative review, I actually liked what I saw. I would definitely buy it, if it were cheaper.
This was great. Really clearly laid out what was wrong and right in this box. I do worry that this is the classic kickstarter "good reputation plus stunning presentation" problem- they were never not going to sell this, so it didn't need to be great.
The Matrix is still cool! :) Thanks for the review.
Great review, thanks! I want to play a "Warcraft experience" really hard. I've just been playing the old Warcraft boardgame and it felt dissapointing and bad. So I was thinking maybe this game can give me this feeling of playing the fantasy RTS, but be a good game. And it doesn't look like it is the case. Also the cost is crutial. It feels like you need to buy the expansion right away and the combined cost is insane. And I fear we would play this once or twice, never to get it back to the table.
Good review.
Shitty day safed, thanks for this great Review
I really like this game. Definitely get the mercenaries and siege engines so you have more options on what to recruit.
kallax is my boardgame shelving of choice too haha
Loved the video. Keep it honest.
Loved the review. I'm the opposite in that I'd rather play HoLAS over Scythe any day (though I haven't tried Twilight Imperium), but I really value the points you raise. Thanks, and I hope your integrity brings you more fans!
Thanks for your review. You two are pretty funny and I mean that in a good way. I noticed that the cards were sleeved. Was that just hopeful expectations before you played the game? I don't suppose you have tried this again since. I think (hopefully) that this will be suitable as an introduction to beginning board gamers to 4x games that want something beyond Risk. I know that Twilight Imperium is the ultimate but I think it will put off beginners (it puts me off and I am been into board games for many years). It's on sale too so ...
Big fan of your videos. But you are wrong, this is a great game for our group :) Keep up the good work!
LOL Pet Sounds. Great album!
I think you have almost succesfully talked me out of this latest GF campaign thank you
5 years later, this is still one of the worst board games we have played.
I liked the video, I'm staying around :)
It's a big favorite for us. It gives a total warcraft 3 feeling.
Dice Tower all time best game 1-100: Mike nr. 4, Roy nr. 3. That means something
Negative opinion is important. Don't change that. The box is unnecessarily large. Half empty.
There are similar aspects about some of the Tiny Epic Gamelyn games that I haven't liked, but at their size and price point, I can see them being considerably easier to forgive. I can see a lot of the gamelyn style in this one, so maybe they just play better small.
I bought this as a gift, but I also paid about half of its price. I think he will like this game, as he liked TI4 but couldn’t stick out the length. I’ll have to look into whether some of the later expansions helped.
I do want a high fantasy themed game like this but good. I already own Smallworld. Any recomendations?
I don't agree with your negative points. I really enjoy every aspect of the game, but I can understand there can be downtime and it can be a problem knowing the enemy abilities. Great review nonetheless.
I was pretty impressed by the game, it looked colourful and fun enough that I might convince my girlfriend and some of the step kids to join in to play it, and easy enough that they might enjoy it... But then *record scratch sound* 11:17 happened.. Yupp, that is it, not a chance... I've got three kallax shelves, but sadly I've also got so many games bigger than the rooms in the shelf that they have to go on top, and guess what, I'm running out of space on top and not in the shelf. I'm not taking in any more big game boxes unless they are exceptional games.... I do hope and pray that Frosthaven will justify it's space on top of the shelf...
There was a pun included : P
Another amazing review! Thank you so much for doing this. I have been interested in this game, but not enough to back it/buy it, and I am happy I didn't! You guys are doing so great stuff! keep it up :)
Won't fit in a kallax? That's infuriating! Great review as always!
One thing I don't like about this game is having to remember every player's structure and hero abilities, so I simply don't (btw, I used to play MTG and I don't recall this being an issue even with a large number of abilties in play). I don't care for the clunky combat system either. And I agree that most of the combo's never see fruition because everyone is focused on ending the game or doing actions that increase their points more efficiently.
All in all, I much rather play Scythe or a good medium-weight euro. I'll keep an eye out for Lowlands based on your review. Thanks!
After seeing the recommendations I miss the game clash of cultures. That one is in my opinion a game that does the score point system in a similar but better way and is one of my favorites. Next to ti 3/4. Scythe doesn't do it for me that much
Whats that tiny game in the red box with the eye on it?
"Timing!" Lol.
That's a whopper but is bigger actually better ? - said the bishop to his wife.
Thank You... i probably just saved a lot of money :D
I haven't played Twilight Imperium yet, thank you for the comparison though because I REALLY like Heroes of Land Air n Sea. Some games do take longer than others (so far my longest game has been 4 hours and 5 minutes including some teaching time) and anyone who gets analysis paralysis could really slow the game to a halt, especially when they are in a battle and deciding which tactics card to play (one player I was with spent twenty minutes alone on this part.) It can be annoying when someone triggers the end game JUST when you've finally gotten your engine really working, and I have had a few friends get really down in the dumps when their capital gets sacked and they end with zero points. These are ALL great reasons to NOT play this game. I have to say though, I really really enjoy it. If you don't mind the length and you can accept that your capital and towers may be attacked, I think you too will enjoy it. I have all 10 current factions plus 6 of the mercenaries and for me and my game group it really works. Not ALL the time, but when we want to play it, it's FANTASTIC.
I always enjoy and appreciate your reviews! You are both a lot of fun and I really get the sense that you KNOW what you are talking about! This is really (so far) the only one I disagree with you on, though obviously I totally get your valid points.
Sooooo. When can we expect a Founders of Gloomhaven review?
Do you wanna trade it for painting your gloomhaven figures ? 🙂
About recommending Scythe over this game. The engaging part for me in this game is been able to play during other players turns. In Scythe, you just wait around for so long in a 4 players game just do to your actions. I think in 4x games where the scope is always long, been able to participate during others player's turn is a crucial element for the engagement of the experience.
In Twilight Imperium, you're participating during other player's turn and the game would be unbearable otherwise. I think this is why I dislike most 4x games as in many of them are filled with downtime where you just wait around for your turn to come up. IMO, long games should always have a way to engage the other players during another player's turn.
About the scoring mechanics: I like the fact that the game allow you to score points in almost every way possible. This highlight two cores concept of the game of 4x games to tie together: Building your engine in a efficient way and the freedom of actions.
Conceptually, those 2 concepts are opposed to each others. Been efficient ask the player to play the same actions in a precise order to feel rewarded and the freedom of choices let you do anything in any order and feel rewarded for it. All 4x games try to glue those concepts together in some way to create a grandiose experience but some do it better than others.
If I compare this to Scythe: In Scythe, I never felt rewarded by my actions and therefore never was feeling satisfied with my choices nor I was free of doing anything I would like outside of finding the most efficient route for my economic engine. Nothing I was doing felt rewarding outside of winning combats or be the first to enter the Factory. After 3 games I decided I don't want to play this game anymore. Compared to HoLAS where after 2 games I was hooked.
Sure Twilight Imperium is a much better game but the scope of it is also much bigger. I see those 2 been my favorite 4x games for now.
Love the review even if I fully disagree though honestly there isn't much we agree on 😂
robert young agreement is not a prerequisite for appreciation!
No Pun Included absolutely!
No Pun Included I do agree about that fucking box though excuse my french.
I was so excited about this game, thanks for saving my wallet. Yeah I will always be nostalgic about Warcraft 2 but would not boot it up now because I have matured a bit, just a bit.
11:17 YES! See also: the Collector's Box for Sentinels of the Multiverse. Argh.
Hmmm..... feeling better about skipping the KS
You shouldn't. It's great.
I really wanted this until I watched this video. :( It does seem more weak for the cost. I feel like it could have been fixed, but with not being fixed on the second print it seems unlikely
I didn't know KFC was in England. Sorry England. :(
Hot take: Keanu is 1000X cooler in Speed than in The Matrix.
What game is it compared too?
I second this, so many 4x games, no idea which one he’s talking about.
Danny V from later comments in the video it could be the war craft game but I'm thinking twilight imperium?
It's Warcraft, the original RTS game(real time strategy)
I thought it was to either RuneWars or War of the Ring, but no idea either. Clash of Clans? Anyway can't see FFG suing over this (eg. WarCraft TBG, RuneWars or Twilight Imperium).