Respectfully Rob, I think the MCU is working as designed. The MCU is about putting out popcorn munchin' flicks with some "Woke" agendas and getting paid for licensed material through marketing and merchandising. Marvel as a traded Co does not give a quantum f*ck about comic book fans; especially us "Men" of a certain age who should be the target demographic. If you don't believe me then look @ how they are caping for females by setting up this A-Force premise by making a majority of the Avengers into women (Thor Jane Foster [RIP], Ironheart Riri Williams, Black Panther Shuri, She-Hulk, Hawkeye Kate Bishop, Captain Carter, Wasp Hope Pym, Black Widow Yelena Belova). I acknowledge Sam Wilson is also Captain America, but Captain Carter has appeared more times post Steve Rogers than Sam did so there was an agenda for some time to see if they could get her over with fans. Bottom line Rob, welcome to the Senior center. We can reminisce over how good the first 2 phases of Marvel were because it is only going further downhill from here.
We're both (kind of) in the same type of position Rob. You want to take a break from it all, and who could blame you! and I just wanna get my foot in the door. Even if that means you letting me come live in a shack in your backyard. Think about it! You would be Iron Man, and I would be that Riley kid from Iron Man 3! Iron Lad!! And then we can make the Mach 4 Potato Gun that also makes curly fries!! Come on Rob!!! You know you want too!!! Hit me up!!! I'd be your next best friend!! Just give me a little shack in the backyard and you'll never regret it!
As a subscriber, I was really interested in hearing your opinion on the MCU shows/movies that did happen. Even if you disliked it. We subscribed because of how Rob articulates the content around him imo.
Pretty simple: most of the writers and those involved behind the scenes have little to no care about the source material (Case in point: Taika Waititi)
Not only that, it seems like there’s no communication between any of the directors to make the movies feel connected anymore. They all set up their own main characters, have their own villains with no connection to other new villains, and their own cliffhangers which I’m sure many will never even be resolved.
@@jumanjiman86 yep, even if it felt contrived in some movies at least most of the movies in phases 1-3 had an overarching narrative, while Phase 4 has felt so disjointed, and personally feel like most of the projects suffered bc of that. How tf did they not weave the multiverse stuff into Love and Thunder to give us 3 Thor's versus Gorr? And that's just off the top of my head🤦♂️ there's been no reveals of Skrulls hiding in plain sight (that's how I wouldve handled the Tchalla situation personally)
Nah, I disagree. It’s never that simple when franchises/movie universes (which we’d never seen this cohesive before the MCU…) go wrong. And imo, it’s able to be salvaged. It’s not a shit show yet lol.
honestly I just wish they hired people like you. it's clear to me that there are not enough comic fans in the writers room, and they could use a fresh perspective going into the fresh new phases that they are planning. Rob you kill it every time with your ideas and you never fail to make it all make sense. sorry you've been getting burned out. you deserve better from this cinematic universe!
Bro there literally are no fans producing these movies. They just hand them a bunch of comics and tell them get familiar. They don't care there's no passion. They just pump out movies for money. They need people like Rob. Rooms full of Robs
Same shit with star wars and the dude star wars theory. He has been saying the same type of stuff. They need people like Rob & theory because it feels like a massive cash grab at this point
The only thing I really want is a series about what was going on with the people that survived the snap. Like what really happened during those five years between Infinity war and end game
I miss two things: The story telling in phase 1-3 & I miss getting the chance to sit with & digest a film and then having a few months/years to miss/yearn for the next project
The writing on the wall for the first Saga, combined with knowing which characters couldn't be used, was very helpful. I think most people haven't figured out the secrets to the Multiverse, let alone which characters are only being used for Phases 7 and beyond, is the real reason why most are having an issue with Phase 4. I also can't help stress enough that we are all suppose to look back at Phase 4 and think, "****", which is a "blank" for most right now, so the hate is very real for right now.
Like Snape. Most people hated him until certain parts. Unless you read the books and were one of the lucky few to keep a good hunch about him. I stay on the edge of my seat, but it's only because I'm left guessing if they are being driven by Good/Life/Love or Bad/Death/Hate. Each character has stories where they can go either way, Kevin is doing a really good job mixing all the "new toys" up really nicely
@@PhxDroid86 I think when everything joins together and you can go back at rewatch phase 4 then maybe a lot more would make sense but the difference to phases 1-3 is that despite the fact we all knew thanos was coming, we were invested in the individual stories of each character. I find that with each new project that came out in phase 4, the general consensus wasn’t that it was a well written, coherent, evocative story but more “well okay, that happened…but where & when does it tie in” and I think that’s part of the issue
I must say, I'm so proud of Rob. If you go back to the start of his channel, it's very different from what you see now. He was figuring out and you could see him grow over time. It's actually quite amazing to see the growth. As for the movies, the core problem can be tied back to Rob as well. He has passion about what he does and the source material and the people in charge now just don't. And just like a "Man, lemme tell ya" moves through you, the dispassionate efforts in the MCU move through you as well. Can't fake some things.
I like where you’re going. I think they should make an “Amazing Fantasy” or “Tales to Astonish” anthology series to introduce characters in one-off episodes. Treat each episode as a Marvel Special Presentation like “Werewolf By Night” and then take these newly established characters and make their own movies/shows or put them into other projects.
I believe the biggest issue with phase 4 was that it felt like a victory lap after the infinity saga. It wasn't pushing a clear narrative for us to follow or a clear perspective for us to view from, aka Steve Rogers or Tony Stark. It felt like a rorschach test for us to try and get some impressions from.
Great, great ideas…phase 4 had ups and downs imo, and it felt like they were trying to catch lightning in a bottle instead of having a set destination.
I like your direction, it actually follows some of those early comic book styles of releasing content to get you ready to buy a book in the next coming week. I'm more about a really good story and I think if you have an appropriate story and executed it very well you really wouldn't have to worry about competing with avengers endgame and other titles cuz you will find a good spot just meant for that particular story.
I like this idea of yours with the two in one comic, or like Marvel Comics Presents style - Maybe with a main story, then other one or two off episodes for other characters. I agree the formula they went down, while good stories, seemed like trying to force us to like new characters too fast, and did not have the gravity of the exposure of time, growing up with them. I blame a lot of that on the Disney Plus shows which sounded great when it was happening but now has harmed the narrative.
After Endgame, I didn’t think Marvel could do any wrong. Slowly, as the shows came out, I became less and less enthusiastic about it (that’s not to say I didn’t enjoy some aspects of said movies/shows, but overall, I was less and less enthused [except NWH - that was great]).
I like this video very much. It reminds me of your older videos when you were just starting UA-cam. The slow-paced talking, with some chill music in the background, and the killer editing. I do think the Marvel Spotlight idea is pretty cool, going back to these gaps in the universe and filling them in to not leave an audience wondering.
I do like that we got Doctor Strange 2, but what would add to it to make it feel like there was a progression or add on to give us more story would be a marvel spotlight showing us Wanda being corrupted by the Darkhold, searching for her sons in any way possible, and then finding out about America and sending creatures after her.
My theory is that the pandemic made Disney loose a lot of money which ultimately made them rush a lot of project when things started getting back to normal. Disney+ is also one of the worst things to happen because they have to constantly put out content to make profit.
Thank you Rob, been having some relationship issues and the part about how you related some real life advice that helps, your videos are in some ways a light house. I have depression bad at times and I don’t know how many time, man let me tell you something, has really helped. A lot. Thank you.
To be honest, Rob your solution is underwhelming. The Spotlight and 2-1 approach is based on a key problem with folx that either hate or are jaded by phase 4: people haven't moved on from Endgame. What marvel is doing is trying to create what is essentially a brand new universe. The IS was based on the Avengers and a buildup to something more. The multiverse saga is different, it's Marvel bringing everything home within an ever-changing universe based on top of the one that it's built. This isn't to say that there hasn't been misfires like Thor: L&T but, for all the flak people give Eternals, it tends to not get credit for expanding the stakes of the coming war (i.e. read the current Eternals run and you'll get an idea). All in all, I see the core of your idea- start a brand new relationship instead of going fast and mining loose threads. Though, in phase 4 I think they've actually set us up with a brand new state of things to explore.
I’ve got no hate for phase 4 After the climax of phase 3 there didn’t need to be huge build up again right away, I love the idea of an anthology phase where they use the attention they have to be more creative The issue is a lot if these projects simply were not good Loki, WandaVision, Shang Chi, No Way Home. These were good projects which I loved, if everything else was this good I’d have 0 issue with this phase But it’s not Yeah there was a lot of middle of the road content, but that’s fine as that’s happened in the past, not everything has to be a smash hit, some things are fun to watch just the once But there is so many projects in this phase that are just unappealing, ive skipped more this phase than any other, Eternals, Love and Thunder, She Hulk. Those are what drag down the phase as it’s been L after L after L especially nearing the end of this phase. Not the lack of general direction, but the lack of general quality
And that is ok. This phase was the most diverse and experimental phase to date. I'm sure if you were collecting comic books most of these characters wouldn't be in your pull list, but they are in others. I imagine the intent was to pull in a broader audience as a jump on point.
@@rdstovall oh yeah definitely The MCU can be broad enough to appeal to people outside of its own fans Doesn’t make a bad project good but it’s nice to have something for everyone
I could be wrong but weren’t the shows of any of the series longer than the movies? Movies and shows are subjective. So I think we have a right to like or hate what ever is thrown us but maybe the hate some have for phase 4 is because we have a bias or wasn’t paying attention to the actual shows
Love the video style. Appreciative of anything you have to offer Rob. Thanks for taking your time to make these videos. I don't have many friends, and the ones I do have don't like to hear me obsessively talk about comics/mcu stuff so its really cool to have this place to just be a sounding board for your thoughts and feelings on the stuff I care deeply about. Keep your mental at number 1, always.
I love this idea! I feel like the movies rushed to get to a new story, when we just needed a second to think about the saga we just finished. Maybe more time in between movies, or shows that tie in to what's gonna happen. It all feels jumbled up right now and I think the time would've made us all happier lol. 😊
I feel the issue witht your solution is that it doesn't exactly take into consideration the time that it takes to conceptualize shoot edit and produce a movie or show. These things are planned so far out and that's a reason, for the most part, continuity is so on point. Because everything happens for a reason to set up something else. With your solution you would seemingly have to know ahead of time what the reaction to something would be. For instance, ms marvel. There are 9ish months between the show and the accompanying movie. There's no time for what you're suggesting to take place. Things had to be set up years in advance and you can't just throw something out that doesn't work last minute. The best way to do what you're suggesting, at least with the spotlight side of it would be animated like What If. But as for what I'd do? I dunno. I'm kind of holding my breath that everything that seems like it didn't work in phase 4 is because Kang has something to do with it. The biggest thing that didn't work for me in phase 4 was how everything felt disconnected. There were definitely some duds. But it seems like they are setting up something epic! So I'll keep my fingers crossed and trust K.EV.I.N 🤞🏽😑🤞🏽 lol
Great post! There seems to be little appreciation into the actual reality and timeline of making these mega-productions. There is a greater risk of writing the franchise into a corner if a requirement is a well defined narrative across many properties years in advance.
Phase 4 lacked vision. All the other phases had separate stand alone movies but they all had a common thread that lead to something. Phase 4 seems very disconnected and directionless. They also introduce to many concepts and characters without giving it the time and attention it needs. Here's hoping phase 5 will get the universe back on track.
That is a F’ing brilliant idea. I came into this video skeptical, although I agree with your sentiment about Phase 4 … but your idea for what “should have been” is AMAZING!!!
I don't think the problem is burnout. I think the problem is there's no plan and the tone is all over the place. Guardians was funny, but it still felt like it could be in the same universe. Thor love and thunder and she hulk felt like cartoons.
I’m just happy that these movies have been made in my lifetime, the eight-year-old me still says these movies could never possibly get made😅. And honestly we need creators like you, Rob.
Phase 4 is about letting go. Almost every movie has this underlying theme. No Way Home, Love and Thunder, MoM, Wakanda Forever, WandaVision. This theme isn't for just the characters, its also for us. We need to learn to let go, and we need to embrace change. Phase 4 has not been as high as Phase 3, but look at how that phase ended. Ragnarök into Black Panther into Infinity War and finally Endgame. Its impossible for anything to follow that kind of act. I'm here until the nd. Marvel has so much fuel left in the tank I'm not even worried. Not to mention they literally have no competition still.
The biggest issue I’m having is the formats, I don’t think they have enough experience in short series’s. They should get some UK producers that are used to the short series formats. I know some worked well but most felt as the pacing was off, and longer but less episodes would have worked better for most of the series’s.
Don't do endgame again BUT do endgame formula again, big characters, tell the story, build it up in a good way like before, all leading up to the big EPIC event, no TV crap, no spin offs etc... that's what I say
Yes,they Dump down and Demonizied The Male Characters and Mary-Sue female,s ONES,If Just Stop it and Balance things,Give A Good Stories if Could have Wokr.
7:30 No quality at all!!! It's all about woke politics, *[the actress (other actors too like Mark Ruffalo) who plays she hulk supports democrats and pushes their ideology with her is also the writer!]* lgbt [no one cares about this!] and feminist! That's not wat the fandom wants!! *They are digging their own franchise grave at this point!* Have some *QUALITY STANDARDS* people!!! _People don't realize that Scorsese was right from the very beginning!_
Like wolves attacking a weakened animal. Only one lackluster phase doesn't need to be bandwagoned to death. We also have bias opinions based on comics we love. If we get rob's vision,would 100 percent of the mcu viewing population agree or would their be natural disagreement? I'm satisfied with the MCU and Disney plus. Better than anything adapted as a comic, ever.
Yes! Had a similar idea where instead of character focused shows, have anthology shows named after the old silver age comics. Strange Tales for introducing mystical characters, Journey Into Mystery for cosmic characters, etc. and make them one-shot stories like Werewolf by Night so you can test the waters on new characters without committing.
It would definitely work Robbbb contact Kevin Nowww, This the Way. Genius. We have slowed the continuity by introducing lots of characters. That’s the main issue with topping Avengers: End Game & I truly hope as well it will be fixed for the future phases. 🎉 Marvellous
I think your idea is nice, but would be just as subjected to mass criticism as the current version. It’s a difficult predicament, and I think it is just as notable that phase 1 was a mess too. For all they collectively got okay, IM2, CAtfa, and Thor were boring as all hell, with bright spots and the ever-powerful effect of novelty. We have now experienced Endgame, and are jaded. Nothing can be as good. But now we have a new endgame: Kang, Secret Wars, Multiverse. The endgame now is seeing what survives of this bloated MCU. Will old man Logan and Deadpool lead our new direction? What continuity will be considered “official?” It’s not the time for casuals. This is how comics evolved as well. You’re either in or you’re out. And if you’re a comics fan, they already know you’re in. And so do you.
Rob at his finest here. Thank you for saying all of it. Too many fan boys out there not saying the truth but you did. 🙏 hopefully the box office and tv ratings show them that they made the wrong choices. After all we did reward Disney for all of the things they did up to end game.
I believe you hit the nail on the head. Phase 4 kept getting progressively worse & burn out kicked. The quality of content dropped and the quantity expanded. Spider-Man NWH, MoM, Shang-Chi, & Wakanda Forever were the best movie projects in phase 4, & Eternals gets honorable mention. The TV shows was a different story. Wandavision was solid, Loki was great, Captain America & the Winter was grounded and enjoyable, & Moon Knight was different good. Hawkeye was a holiday special so it gets a pass. Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, and even Werewolf by Night is pretty much where the burn out kicked in. Movies such as Black Widow should've took place in phases 1-3, and Thor 4 just wasn't good at all. Phase 4 was the definition of hit or miss and the idea of bringing in new characters is fine, but don't just throw a show or movie out there just for the hell of it. Either give it quality or don't do it at all.
Interesting to apply The Hero's Journey to an entire franchise or phases of a franchise, although it's a bit generous since the MCU team admitted they were shooting from the hip during the early phases, without a real overarching narrative and just random foreshadowing. MCU Phases are largely production cycles, enabling the raising of investments, scheduling of media buys, leverage for distribution negotiations, etc. Applying the Hero's Journey to phases is very unsatisfying for this reason. However, Sagas are narrative - The Infinity Saga, The Multiverse Saga - and a more appropriate place for analysis vis a vis The Hero's Journey. It needs to be noted that individual properties employed The Hero's Journey. For example, Moon Knight was a textbook hero's journey. Even She-Hulk resisted the call to adventure and ended up in the special world (K.E.V.I.N.) A great video essay series would be applying The Hero's Journey to the different MCU properties - I'd watch the hell out of that!
Phase 4 had some great surprises that weren’t done before that were successful world and franchise building including surprising things like Wherewolf by night which is a delightful holiday surprise, WandaVision which was great trope breaking and shows that held the glue of the range of this weird world like Loki and wasp.
just two things wrong: 1. Phase 4 onwards needs a moral anchor, 2 characters that you know you can always rely on. In phases 1-3 it was Cap and Tony, but we lost them. Phase 4 should've had Sam Wilson, Rhodes, or Bucky, but they stopped appearing anywhere. 2. A Clear path towards the big bad. Yeah we know Kang's the next bad guy, but what's with all the forks in the road to get to where he is? Sometimes, things do not need to be over-complicated.
I agree with the Marvel Spotlight, but not completely with the 2 in 1. I think they should have spent time developing some lesser-known, ground level characters on the small screen over a longer period - ideally, mutants. For example, characters like Domino, Werewolf, Dazzler, Psylocke, Dust, etc. could be compelling and after 3-4 seasons could funnel right into a long-term X-Men story arch that could lead all the way to Genosha.
Rob, I think your solution is only surface deep. The problems with She-Hulk, Thor: Love and Thunder, Multiverse of Madness, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Eternals, et al. aren't that there's too much content. It's that the quality of that content was awful. The decisions made by the writers in terms of character development (or the lack thereof), dubious morality, the on-the-nose social and political activism, wavering continuity within the films and between them, distractingly bad CGI, plots that create myriad of holes in previous films because of thoughtless plot devices or macguffins, no coherency within the universe at present.... I do agree that Marvel needs to scale back on the volume of content. Sure, it "solves" the issue with the TV shows by never making them, but it doesn't do anything to resolve the problems that created the bad content in the first place. Thor: Love and Thunder and Eternals wouldn't have looked any different because the things that made those films bad haven't been addressed. Disney needs get out of the process and let Marvel Studios have full control of the content of their projects. Marvel Studios then needs to go back to their extremely humble cinematic beginnings and look at Iron Man, re-discover what made that hail-mary so successful, and create content with that sincerity. In a Vanity Fair interview with Feige, Arad, Vavreau, and Downy, Feige and Favreau even out-right state what they were going for (which is different from today) - "You want to mix great casting, *stay true to the characters*, a combined universe that would allow cross-pollination. And having humor and *adherence to canon*." But here in Phase 4, we have Thor as a clown and She-Hulk writers deciding to I guess deliberately write a bad show to "troll" some people? Jessica Gao and Taika Watiti had no respect for the characters and stories from the comics (I mean, they literally have not read them and know nothing of the characters) and no respect for audiences. In the case of Gao, what are you doing to sincere audience members when you make a show, not to tell a good story with well written characters, but to shit on people who say mean things on twitter? Marvel could cut back to 2 movies a year and no other content and the quality of those films would not suddenly bring us back to the average quality of phases 1-3.
I agree the quality in the content could be better, hopefully the new Disney CEO can bring back that energy/money. As for burn out. I don’t feel burn out of the MCU, I feel burn out from life, keeping up with bills and short staff at work. Coming home to watch the MCu shows I enjoyed weekly, I can’t stand when I like a show on Netflix, and it’s cancel after 1 season and I never know what the ending results are. If they could bring that Wandavision era, when everyone was trying to theorize the what’s gonna happen next, that would be great. It was great weekly conversation with my friends too.
the plot of the MCU now literally sucks. The writing is legit so bad that it’s sad, and it’s because they no longer care about making quality movies, all they care about is hype and shock value these days. Phase 1 actually had effort put into them, and actually work good as standalone movies. I love the first avenger movie as well as Thor 1. When I kept hearing that people didn’t them I knew I had to give them a try and I was completely shocked by how good they were, compared to what people were saying about them. The problem is that most MCU fans don’t actually know what good writing and actual story is. All they know are cameos, cameos, and more cameos to carry a film. 🤷♂️
This is what happens when Disney and the evil mouse take control of something they should never have owned to begin with. Star wars sequels got the same treatment. Hopefully things are due to change with the change in leadership in Disney, hopefully creative control is handed back to the people who actually know what creativity means. Hopefully the woke agenda is DESTROYED. I want to make this clear... I am no hater of female characters, and yes there are female counterparts to nearly every hero in the comics too, but when u REPLACE fan favs with these counterparts... or when u change a character's character to fit your own agenda (making them bi sexual etc.) it's just disrespectful to say the least.. I like phase 4 but jeez how do just introduce a female version of every hero in just one phase when it took 3 phases just to introduce the main characters. 😳 its no longer about story telling its all about agenda and this is where phase 4 fails
I think your right on about phase 4 and your substitution ideas. Unfortunately the Marvel Execs already have the comic fan base so they went on a hunt to gather other demographics and appeal to new audiences just like the Marvel Comics of today. Which means the core fans suffer as they pander to new audiences who will Ultimately reject the whole concept of superhero shows ... and the core fan base will be diminished. Happened before. Happening again. Rinse recycle repeat. Not supporting the core demographic is the path to failure. See Rings if Power. If your not making it for the true fans... Who the f are you making it for ?
Moonknight was great though. Wandavision was different and I liked it. Mixed feelings about loki,, the falcon and the winter soldier and the other shows forgettable. The films were meh except for Shang chi oh no way home was f***ing awesome!
More movies like the epic originals, Don't make jokes out of any loved characters, replace live action Disney plus shows with well written animated shows with today's current characters to get kids drawn into it and have a matching comic for each like back in the day.
If I had to describe it in a single word ied probably say rudderless. And the to keep going with the boat analogy i could also say its got no wind in its sails, so that no driving force and no way to stear the ship. Marvel made a massive mistake in infinity war/Endgame in one way or another they removed all posable leaders for the Avengers from the board (Tony-Dead, Steve-old missing and or dead, Natasa-dead, Clint-retired...again, Vision-Dead twice technicallywith Wandavision 3x Dead) and killed off the bad guy that was rallieing everyone together. Now we did get Kang from loki so we're working on setting up a new driving force but we're still missing someone that could fill that leader role and new character from the Xmen or fantastic 4 will have their own team to manage and their isn't any old Avenger that everyone would follow and most of them would need on the job training (leading is harder than most people think) thinking about it Bucky has the best shot at becoming a leader depending on the events of the Thunderbolts, he has the military training he is charismatic (thanks to his actor) he had quite a high rank in the military so he will have experience leading at least a little so he is just missing a will or obligation to do it and an event to make people see him as a leader. Both him and Sam have a similar problem they both felt like Caps sidekicks and neither was fleshed out more before removing Steve and the falcon and winter soldier show didn't do enough to make Sam into a leader in my books so that leaves the Thunderbolts to maybe make Bucky into a leader or we can carry on been Rudderless. Sorry for the wall of text.
Trying to beat Endgame? Ha, Infinity War was WAY better than Endgame. Endgame was the beginning of the downward spiral. The problem is they are trying to make every movie for everyone, as this is the Disney way. This prevents them for going as dark and serious as some story lines require. They need to make Marvel movies for Marvel fans, not make them an all ages theme park on the screen.
It’s not a bad idea. Ultimately though, Phases 1-3 had a consistent theme for almost the entire run. No matter what happens we’ll get through it together. But some can’t be undone. But Phase 4 was ultimately ruined by Endgame. The story telling could have been much better without Endgame.
I look at the MCU like an actual universe. It started at a singular point and is now ever expanding. We're getting content in volume to reflect that expansion. The build-up is still the formula. We're just seeing a bigger view of the surrounding landscape of characters that come with it.
A 2-in-1 show sounds like a production nightmare, but I love the spotlight idea. There is no excuse for Marvel to be putting out bad movies though, which is the real problem of phase 4.
My problem is they’re always messing with time and I hate time travel because there aren’t any real stakes. Lazy easy fixes that lead to convolution with stupid pay offs. I’d rather a story about spidey in queens fighting venom.
I only saw the Spider-Man phase four movie, because the rest just didn't look appealing and a lot of it was just too woke. Hope phase 5 gets back on track.
Well said and well done. No way Disney lets the cashcow go completely. They rather ruin the spirit than start over or adapt. I knew they needed to start over in theory but also knew they would feel it too much of a misstep if they didn't milk it into this ongoing mess. I miss the heart. Characters in general create the heart of the story so why keep the old story while semi starting over but not starting over at all. And, not really making the new bunch as deep or likeable.
Phase 4 has been terrible and the TV Shows are not very good. To say my excitement for the MCU is at an all time low is an understatement. She Hulk was kinda where i got off the bus and stopped caring. This new MCU doesn't seem to want to cater to the fans of the first 3 phases and they are all opting out.
What’s killing Marvel is Disney trying to compete with Netflix by building a streaming service on the back of Marvel content. I honestly think Kevin is smarter than this but he has not control over that.
they sort of did it with the marvel one shots but those only work with the supporting cast. but robs whole idea thing just wouldnt work. it's super wishful thinking. truth of the matter is phase four is simply trying to reach a new audience. every project doesn't have to be for you. it's an embarrassment of riches and you are free to go in and out. the weakest for me personally was eternals but thats because they tried to cram way too much stuff in. but even then there was things to enjoy from it. I still don't have this "marvel burnout" I keep hearing about. I'm still racing to be the first on line to whatever marvel has got next.
Marvel doesn’t want to hire you if your a fan of the comics apparently which makes for the horrible political driven sludge pipeline we have been getting all of phase 4
I’m gonna be that guy but I personally believe marvels legacy characters that they’ve mostly been using in the MCU recently aren’t nearly as interesting as dc ones 90% of the time they have the same personalities as the original heroes the only difference is oh it’s a different gender or race so you really need strong storytellers to make those characters worthwhile and far more interesting
The whole spotlight thing is Trash I would rather The Tv shows we get now jus not the 22 min ones and no filler Episodes jus a straight forward plot that Leads to the next project and the movies would jus have to be different then what came before
Yes! Rob’s back 🎉 I have to admit after endgame I was hyped and intrigued with the phase 4 content, but now I really care about the MCU anymore. I think Marcel has over saturated us with content. I lost real interest after moon knight. I think if they released a show every 5 to 6 months and a movie in between, that would have been more manageable and I would still have a high level of intrigue and interest. At this point, I’m just waiting for the x-men reboot and F4 reboot. I don’t really care about anything else at the moment
So I hear the ideas and what I capture is I dont want to move away from what was. Phase Four was not intended to connect everything. It was a pallette cleanse. The move was risky for the very reasons you pointed out and the fact that they used characters not seldom used was even riskier, but I counter with what better time to spread out your universe. You either do it or don't. Commit to the task. I'm sure Marvel figured the response would be mixed because not every character is equally loved in the books. I'll end with this, what does it say about the culture if we collectively are incapable of maturing past what we are familiar with and step into something new?
I don't know I really feel like people are being too hard on phase 4 simply because the end of phase 3 was so amazing. But the end of phase 3 was the culmination of phases 1-3. And those phases and their handful of flops. In fact phase 4 is best compared to phase 1 since this is the beginning of a new arch for a big bad villain. Phase 1 was ok. I wasn't even super into Marvel back then. Iron Man 1 was great. Hulk was awesome, Thor was pretty ok and got so so reviews, I was never a Cap fan so I didn't even watch his movie until after Age of Ultron and I didn't even see Ultron until a few years after it came out. Iron Man 2 wasn't great. I didn't like it. It didn't get great reviews. Then you had Thor 2 and Iron Man 3 in phase 2 which also sucked. Winter Soldier was better than Cap 1. I really don't think things started ramping up until Guardians 1 when all the connections really started coming together that Thanos was coming as a real threat and not just a fun Easter egg. Phase 4 had more good than bad. Loki was dope, WandaVision was dope, No Way Home was fire, Multiverse of Madness was ok, Wakanda Forever was dope, Moon Knight was dope. We can't compare everything to the end of phase 3.
5:50 this doesn't matter if they write great stories. Actually taking the time to make great scripts. Getting burned out from great movies has never happened in the history of filmmaking, Rob. Put out better content and this phase would've been celebrated for it's storytelling and innovation, and not ridiculed for it's lack of substance. What's wrong with making a bunch of good movies/series? We all felt this phase was disjointed and without direction. But it would have saved Marvel a whole lot of headache ( and nasty articles) if they respected the source material and wrote their a$$es off. We know overall that Kang will turn the MCU upside down. That is the direction they are going. No matter how bad these stories got we understood that. So better writing would have only highlighted that narrative and made his story more intriguing. Feige should have known better. The focus and priority had to be on the storytelling and plot and it wasn't. Coming off of the Infinity Saga things had to be tight. Only a few stories were actually good ( Loki, Wanda Vision not Dr. Strange, & Moon Knight). This phase had to be good. Especially with many of the original heroes now gone. It's important to keep the audience's interested. Things will get better if Feige understands the issue and doesn't just go the fan service route.
Here’s my with the projects of phase 4 more simple: Wandavision: great build up but tried showing Wanda as a hero when she was the villian, I’d argue worse than Agatha, it shows what she’s doing but doesn’t ever give her the consequences for it, and villianized that one guy who just wanted to free the town. Tfatws: the villians sucked bad and tried way to hard to make us like them and not see them as terrorists when they fit googles definition of terrorists. But the show also tried so hard into showing John walker as the villian when he wants the same thing as the heros. Loki: tbh I don’t remember much but it took til episode 3 to even pick up Hawkeye: it’s finale was rushed, and the kingpin reveal was rushed, if they gave the show like 9 episodes then kingpin wouldn’t have felt so sloppy especially when the Netflix shows show us he isn’t sloppy. Shang chi: great movie but the humor was really forced, and Kate was a really annoying characte, even in serious moments she made them not so serious when they should’ve been, and made things not feel as big as they were Eternals: I didn’t hate it like everyone but it should’ve been a Disney plus show with how much it introduced and couldn’t equally give things attention Nwh: good movie, just hated how wasted venom was & how once the villians are introduced peters identity being leaked doesn’t have much weight anymore when it should, and some plot things that make no sense like dr strange knowing the villains were in their world but didn’t know the spider men were in his world Moon knight: should’ve been 9 episodes, and I don’t read his comics but fans complained he wasn’t even the moon knight they knew from comics because how much they changed, but also hearing the director didn’t want him to be Jewish even tho that’s apart of him Thor: so much wasted potential, gorr was barely in it and didn’t even butcher enough, was just a kidnapper, tried to hard to be funny when it didn’t need to as much, and should’ve been more serious, and so many things in concept art that should’ve been in the movie Dr strange: didn’t live up to its name, the Illuminati gets killed off to fast, and Wanda’s turn doesn’t make sense when she was moving on in wandavision but tried getting fake kids back, tries to kill America who is another kid, and never even thought of asking her if she could help her, but also could’ve had kids naturally, but worst of all is she only wants the kids, what about her brother, parents and bf Ms marvel: I didn’t even watch it tbh Werewolf by night: was good but to short She hulk: everything, no story, shit villians, shit cgi, shit jokes, shit message being spread, shit lawyer cases, shit 4th wall breaks Black widow: taskmaster was ruined so badly, and it’s worse they made the suit to look like a man but had it be a woman, besides the shit villians I think it’s fun, but black widow deserves her trilogy What if: alright animation, some shit ideas When there’s so much more that we would wanna see instead Black panther: was good but sometimes dragged a bit, and didn’t have the actor who died, they did good with the main cast who tried to fill his shoes but its something I’m not used to
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Respectfully Rob, I think the MCU is working as designed. The MCU is about putting out popcorn munchin' flicks with some "Woke" agendas and getting paid for licensed material through marketing and merchandising. Marvel as a traded Co does not give a quantum f*ck about comic book fans; especially us "Men" of a certain age who should be the target demographic. If you don't believe me then look @ how they are caping for females by setting up this A-Force premise by making a majority of the Avengers into women (Thor Jane Foster [RIP], Ironheart Riri Williams, Black Panther Shuri, She-Hulk, Hawkeye Kate Bishop, Captain Carter, Wasp Hope Pym, Black Widow Yelena Belova). I acknowledge Sam Wilson is also Captain America, but Captain Carter has appeared more times post Steve Rogers than Sam did so there was an agenda for some time to see if they could get her over with fans. Bottom line Rob, welcome to the Senior center. We can reminisce over how good the first 2 phases of Marvel were because it is only going further downhill from here.
We're both (kind of) in the same type of position Rob. You want to take a break from it all, and who could blame you! and I just wanna get my foot in the door. Even if that means you letting me come live in a shack in your backyard. Think about it! You would be Iron Man, and I would be that Riley kid from Iron Man 3! Iron Lad!! And then we can make the Mach 4 Potato Gun that also makes curly fries!!
Come on Rob!!! You know you want too!!! Hit me up!!!
I'd be your next best friend!! Just give me a little shack in the backyard and you'll never regret it!
someone took inspiration from general sam
Your problem isn't really a solution. Someone else's problem is someone else win
As a subscriber, I was really interested in hearing your opinion on the MCU shows/movies that did happen. Even if you disliked it. We subscribed because of how Rob articulates the content around him imo.
This has that 2015/2016 Comics Explained vibe. I’m here for it.
Totally! I've missed this tempo.
The music he picks, makes me think he is smoking a fat spliff drinking a cocktail on a beach
I completely agree, I miss those days
Facts!!!
Pretty simple: most of the writers and those involved behind the scenes have little to no care about the source material (Case in point: Taika Waititi)
Not only that, it seems like there’s no communication between any of the directors to make the movies feel connected anymore. They all set up their own main characters, have their own villains with no connection to other new villains, and their own cliffhangers which I’m sure many will never even be resolved.
Big facts
@@jumanjiman86 yep, even if it felt contrived in some movies at least most of the movies in phases 1-3 had an overarching narrative, while Phase 4 has felt so disjointed, and personally feel like most of the projects suffered bc of that. How tf did they not weave the multiverse stuff into Love and Thunder to give us 3 Thor's versus Gorr? And that's just off the top of my head🤦♂️ there's been no reveals of Skrulls hiding in plain sight (that's how I wouldve handled the Tchalla situation personally)
Yep
Nah, I disagree. It’s never that simple when franchises/movie universes (which we’d never seen this cohesive before the MCU…) go wrong. And imo, it’s able to be salvaged. It’s not a shit show yet lol.
I like this plan for two reasons
1. It's focused
2. It's not overwhelming
honestly I just wish they hired people like you. it's clear to me that there are not enough comic fans in the writers room, and they could use a fresh perspective going into the fresh new phases that they are planning. Rob you kill it every time with your ideas and you never fail to make it all make sense. sorry you've been getting burned out. you deserve better from this cinematic universe!
Bro there literally are no fans producing these movies. They just hand them a bunch of comics and tell them get familiar. They don't care there's no passion. They just pump out movies for money. They need people like Rob. Rooms full of Robs
I’ve always wondered why they don’t get help from comic book writers or fans, it’s so stupid they throw it to people who don’t even enjoy marvel
I think anyone of us would write a better phase than these writers
Same shit with star wars and the dude star wars theory.
He has been saying the same type of stuff.
They need people like Rob & theory because it feels like a massive cash grab at this point
@@blaironeill7777 That's all it's ever really been.
The only thing I really want is a series about what was going on with the people that survived the snap. Like what really happened during those five years between Infinity war and end game
Yes there should of been a movie or series going on during the blip.
Definitely they dropped the ball on that.
I miss two things: The story telling in phase 1-3 & I miss getting the chance to sit with & digest a film and then having a few months/years to miss/yearn for the next project
Not a good business plan
The writing on the wall for the first Saga, combined with knowing which characters couldn't be used, was very helpful.
I think most people haven't figured out the secrets to the Multiverse, let alone which characters are only being used for Phases 7 and beyond, is the real reason why most are having an issue with Phase 4.
I also can't help stress enough that we are all suppose to look back at Phase 4 and think, "****", which is a "blank" for most right now, so the hate is very real for right now.
Like Snape. Most people hated him until certain parts. Unless you read the books and were one of the lucky few to keep a good hunch about him.
I stay on the edge of my seat, but it's only because I'm left guessing if they are being driven by Good/Life/Love or Bad/Death/Hate.
Each character has stories where they can go either way, Kevin is doing a really good job mixing all the "new toys" up really nicely
@@PhxDroid86 I think when everything joins together and you can go back at rewatch phase 4 then maybe a lot more would make sense but the difference to phases 1-3 is that despite the fact we all knew thanos was coming, we were invested in the individual stories of each character. I find that with each new project that came out in phase 4, the general consensus wasn’t that it was a well written, coherent, evocative story but more “well okay, that happened…but where & when does it tie in” and I think that’s part of the issue
No the world is ending soon we don’t have a year to wait for each film
I must say, I'm so proud of Rob. If you go back to the start of his channel, it's very different from what you see now. He was figuring out and you could see him grow over time. It's actually quite amazing to see the growth. As for the movies, the core problem can be tied back to Rob as well. He has passion about what he does and the source material and the people in charge now just don't. And just like a "Man, lemme tell ya" moves through you, the dispassionate efforts in the MCU move through you as well. Can't fake some things.
I like where you’re going. I think they should make an “Amazing Fantasy” or “Tales to Astonish” anthology series to introduce characters in one-off episodes. Treat each episode as a Marvel Special Presentation like “Werewolf By Night” and then take these newly established characters and make their own movies/shows or put them into other projects.
I believe the biggest issue with phase 4 was that it felt like a victory lap after the infinity saga. It wasn't pushing a clear narrative for us to follow or a clear perspective for us to view from, aka Steve Rogers or Tony Stark. It felt like a rorschach test for us to try and get some impressions from.
The narrative was "diversity", and while that's great, it needs an actual story, not this character is great because it's gender or skin color.
Yeah and these "perspective points" happened to be interesting, charismatic characters. Now its just quantity over quality.
I honestly think it's because we're missing a rebirth arc. It's comics you know it has to happen or else it just don't feel right.
Great, great ideas…phase 4 had ups and downs imo, and it felt like they were trying to catch lightning in a bottle instead of having a set destination.
I like your direction, it actually follows some of those early comic book styles of releasing content to get you ready to buy a book in the next coming week. I'm more about a really good story and I think if you have an appropriate story and executed it very well you really wouldn't have to worry about competing with avengers endgame and other titles cuz you will find a good spot just meant for that particular story.
Love the new approach to the videos Rob. Disney/ Marvel need more individuals with your level of comics expertise at the office.
Your solution would be great if actors aging and contracts weren't a thing
I like this idea of yours with the two in one comic, or like Marvel Comics Presents style - Maybe with a main story, then other one or two off episodes for other characters. I agree the formula they went down, while good stories, seemed like trying to force us to like new characters too fast, and did not have the gravity of the exposure of time, growing up with them. I blame a lot of that on the Disney Plus shows which sounded great when it was happening but now has harmed the narrative.
After Endgame, I didn’t think Marvel could do any wrong. Slowly, as the shows came out, I became less and less enthusiastic about it (that’s not to say I didn’t enjoy some aspects of said movies/shows, but overall, I was less and less enthused [except NWH - that was great]).
I like this video very much. It reminds me of your older videos when you were just starting UA-cam. The slow-paced talking, with some chill music in the background, and the killer editing. I do think the Marvel Spotlight idea is pretty cool, going back to these gaps in the universe and filling them in to not leave an audience wondering.
She-Hulk was a masterclass on how to do everything wrong in a TV show.
🎯🎯🎯🎯
I do like that we got Doctor Strange 2, but what would add to it to make it feel like there was a progression or add on to give us more story would be a marvel spotlight showing us Wanda being corrupted by the Darkhold, searching for her sons in any way possible, and then finding out about America and sending creatures after her.
My theory is that the pandemic made Disney loose a lot of money which ultimately made them rush a lot of project when things started getting back to normal. Disney+ is also one of the worst things to happen because they have to constantly put out content to make profit.
Agreed, Disney plus is bullsh!t. Stop ruining stuff
So, covid made them pick up Kamala khan and she hulk? Eeeek
@@reversetriangle kamala Khan is fine. The live action, Could use work
Yes apart from moon knight loki, and werewolf by night this phase has been shitty with sshows and movies except for no way home
@@reversetriangle To be fair both were announced in 2019 before COVID
Thank you Rob, been having some relationship issues and the part about how you related some real life advice that helps, your videos are in some ways a light house. I have depression bad at times and I don’t know how many time, man let me tell you something, has really helped. A lot. Thank you.
As someone else who's battled depression/anxiety constantly, keep winning. Hope you're doing well
To be honest, Rob your solution is underwhelming. The Spotlight and 2-1 approach is based on a key problem with folx that either hate or are jaded by phase 4: people haven't moved on from Endgame. What marvel is doing is trying to create what is essentially a brand new universe. The IS was based on the Avengers and a buildup to something more. The multiverse saga is different, it's Marvel bringing everything home within an ever-changing universe based on top of the one that it's built. This isn't to say that there hasn't been misfires like Thor: L&T but, for all the flak people give Eternals, it tends to not get credit for expanding the stakes of the coming war (i.e. read the current Eternals run and you'll get an idea). All in all, I see the core of your idea- start a brand new relationship instead of going fast and mining loose threads. Though, in phase 4 I think they've actually set us up with a brand new state of things to explore.
I’ve got no hate for phase 4
After the climax of phase 3 there didn’t need to be huge build up again right away, I love the idea of an anthology phase where they use the attention they have to be more creative
The issue is a lot if these projects simply were not good
Loki, WandaVision, Shang Chi, No Way Home. These were good projects which I loved, if everything else was this good I’d have 0 issue with this phase
But it’s not
Yeah there was a lot of middle of the road content, but that’s fine as that’s happened in the past, not everything has to be a smash hit, some things are fun to watch just the once
But there is so many projects in this phase that are just unappealing, ive skipped more this phase than any other, Eternals, Love and Thunder, She Hulk.
Those are what drag down the phase as it’s been L after L after L especially nearing the end of this phase. Not the lack of general direction, but the lack of general quality
And that is ok. This phase was the most diverse and experimental phase to date. I'm sure if you were collecting comic books most of these characters wouldn't be in your pull list, but they are in others. I imagine the intent was to pull in a broader audience as a jump on point.
@@rdstovall oh yeah definitely
The MCU can be broad enough to appeal to people outside of its own fans
Doesn’t make a bad project good but it’s nice to have something for everyone
Guess some ppl do like garbage
I could be wrong but weren’t the shows of any of the series longer than the movies? Movies and shows are subjective. So I think we have a right to like or hate what ever is thrown us but maybe the hate some have for phase 4 is because we have a bias or wasn’t paying attention to the actual shows
Love the video style. Appreciative of anything you have to offer Rob. Thanks for taking your time to make these videos. I don't have many friends, and the ones I do have don't like to hear me obsessively talk about comics/mcu stuff so its really cool to have this place to just be a sounding board for your thoughts and feelings on the stuff I care deeply about. Keep your mental at number 1, always.
I love the ideas, but worry people will not be able to build a relationship with the character.
I love this idea! I feel like the movies rushed to get to a new story, when we just needed a second to think about the saga we just finished. Maybe more time in between movies, or shows that tie in to what's gonna happen. It all feels jumbled up right now and I think the time would've made us all happier lol. 😊
I feel the issue witht your solution is that it doesn't exactly take into consideration the time that it takes to conceptualize shoot edit and produce a movie or show. These things are planned so far out and that's a reason, for the most part, continuity is so on point. Because everything happens for a reason to set up something else. With your solution you would seemingly have to know ahead of time what the reaction to something would be. For instance, ms marvel. There are 9ish months between the show and the accompanying movie. There's no time for what you're suggesting to take place. Things had to be set up years in advance and you can't just throw something out that doesn't work last minute. The best way to do what you're suggesting, at least with the spotlight side of it would be animated like What If. But as for what I'd do? I dunno. I'm kind of holding my breath that everything that seems like it didn't work in phase 4 is because Kang has something to do with it. The biggest thing that didn't work for me in phase 4 was how everything felt disconnected. There were definitely some duds. But it seems like they are setting up something epic! So I'll keep my fingers crossed and trust K.EV.I.N 🤞🏽😑🤞🏽 lol
Great post! There seems to be little appreciation into the actual reality and timeline of making these mega-productions. There is a greater risk of writing the franchise into a corner if a requirement is a well defined narrative across many properties years in advance.
Phase 4 lacked vision. All the other phases had separate stand alone movies but they all had a common thread that lead to something. Phase 4 seems very disconnected and directionless. They also introduce to many concepts and characters without giving it the time and attention it needs. Here's hoping phase 5 will get the universe back on track.
🎯
came here after the news that echo will be marvel's first spotlight! You were right Rob you called this last year!
Thought the exact same thing!! They owe this man a check
That is a F’ing brilliant idea. I came into this video skeptical, although I agree with your sentiment about Phase 4 … but your idea for what “should have been” is AMAZING!!!
I don't think the problem is burnout. I think the problem is there's no plan and the tone is all over the place. Guardians was funny, but it still felt like it could be in the same universe. Thor love and thunder and she hulk felt like cartoons.
How does the MCU expand its audience if it just cranks out the same thing?
I’m just happy that these movies have been made in my lifetime, the eight-year-old me still says these movies could never possibly get made😅. And honestly we need creators like you, Rob.
Phase 4 is about letting go. Almost every movie has this underlying theme. No Way Home, Love and Thunder, MoM, Wakanda Forever, WandaVision. This theme isn't for just the characters, its also for us. We need to learn to let go, and we need to embrace change. Phase 4 has not been as high as Phase 3, but look at how that phase ended. Ragnarök into Black Panther into Infinity War and finally Endgame. Its impossible for anything to follow that kind of act. I'm here until the nd. Marvel has so much fuel left in the tank I'm not even worried. Not to mention they literally have no competition still.
The biggest issue I’m having is the formats, I don’t think they have enough experience in short series’s.
They should get some UK producers that are used to the short series formats.
I know some worked well but most felt as the pacing was off, and longer but less episodes would have worked better for most of the series’s.
Don't do endgame again BUT do endgame formula again, big characters, tell the story, build it up in a good way like before, all leading up to the big EPIC event, no TV crap, no spin offs etc... that's what I say
It’s people like you who should be in charge and in the writers’ room. Knowledgeable and respectful of the source material. Amazing 🔥🔥🔥
Yes,they Dump down and Demonizied The Male Characters and Mary-Sue female,s ONES,If Just Stop it and Balance things,Give A Good Stories if Could have Wokr.
If the would have just done a series of one shot short films like werewolf by night, then it would have been better.
Easy answer m she u is the issue plain and simple
Watched this twice
7:30 No quality at all!!!
It's all about woke politics, *[the actress (other actors too like Mark Ruffalo) who plays she hulk supports democrats and pushes their ideology with her is also the writer!]* lgbt [no one cares about this!] and feminist! That's not wat the fandom wants!!
*They are digging their own franchise grave at this point!*
Have some *QUALITY STANDARDS* people!!!
_People don't realize that Scorsese was right from the very beginning!_
Those could work well to introduce obscure characters and to recap a particular character's story so far. Cool ideas.
Like wolves attacking a weakened animal. Only one lackluster phase doesn't need to be bandwagoned to death. We also have bias opinions based on comics we love. If we get rob's vision,would 100 percent of the mcu viewing population agree or would their be natural disagreement? I'm satisfied with the MCU and Disney plus. Better than anything adapted as a comic, ever.
Yes! Had a similar idea where instead of character focused shows, have anthology shows named after the old silver age comics. Strange Tales for introducing mystical characters, Journey Into Mystery for cosmic characters, etc. and make them one-shot stories like Werewolf by Night so you can test the waters on new characters without committing.
It would definitely work Robbbb contact Kevin Nowww, This the Way. Genius. We have slowed the continuity by introducing lots of characters. That’s the main issue with topping Avengers: End Game & I truly hope as well it will be fixed for the future phases. 🎉 Marvellous
I think your idea is nice, but would be just as subjected to mass criticism as the current version. It’s a difficult predicament, and I think it is just as notable that phase 1 was a mess too. For all they collectively got okay, IM2, CAtfa, and Thor were boring as all hell, with bright spots and the ever-powerful effect of novelty. We have now experienced Endgame, and are jaded. Nothing can be as good. But now we have a new endgame: Kang, Secret Wars, Multiverse. The endgame now is seeing what survives of this bloated MCU. Will old man Logan and Deadpool lead our new direction? What continuity will be considered “official?”
It’s not the time for casuals. This is how comics evolved as well. You’re either in or you’re out. And if you’re a comics fan, they already know you’re in. And so do you.
Rob at his finest here. Thank you for saying all of it. Too many fan boys out there not saying the truth but you did. 🙏 hopefully the box office and tv ratings show them that they made the wrong choices. After all we did reward Disney for all of the things they did up to end game.
I believe you hit the nail on the head. Phase 4 kept getting progressively worse & burn out kicked. The quality of content dropped and the quantity expanded. Spider-Man NWH, MoM, Shang-Chi, & Wakanda Forever were the best movie projects in phase 4, & Eternals gets honorable mention. The TV shows was a different story. Wandavision was solid, Loki was great, Captain America & the Winter was grounded and enjoyable, & Moon Knight was different good. Hawkeye was a holiday special so it gets a pass. Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, and even Werewolf by Night is pretty much where the burn out kicked in. Movies such as Black Widow should've took place in phases 1-3, and Thor 4 just wasn't good at all. Phase 4 was the definition of hit or miss and the idea of bringing in new characters is fine, but don't just throw a show or movie out there just for the hell of it. Either give it quality or don't do it at all.
Love the concept Rob! Would be cool to see them do something like this after the kang arc
Interesting to apply The Hero's Journey to an entire franchise or phases of a franchise, although it's a bit generous since the MCU team admitted they were shooting from the hip during the early phases, without a real overarching narrative and just random foreshadowing.
MCU Phases are largely production cycles, enabling the raising of investments, scheduling of media buys, leverage for distribution negotiations, etc. Applying the Hero's Journey to phases is very unsatisfying for this reason.
However, Sagas are narrative - The Infinity Saga, The Multiverse Saga - and a more appropriate place for analysis vis a vis The Hero's Journey.
It needs to be noted that individual properties employed The Hero's Journey. For example, Moon Knight was a textbook hero's journey. Even She-Hulk resisted the call to adventure and ended up in the special world (K.E.V.I.N.)
A great video essay series would be applying The Hero's Journey to the different MCU properties - I'd watch the hell out of that!
Phase 4 had some great surprises that weren’t done before that were successful world and franchise building including surprising things like Wherewolf by night which is a delightful holiday surprise, WandaVision which was great trope breaking and shows that held the glue of the range of this weird world like Loki and wasp.
just two things wrong:
1. Phase 4 onwards needs a moral anchor, 2 characters that you know you can always rely on. In phases 1-3 it was Cap and Tony, but we lost them. Phase 4 should've had Sam Wilson, Rhodes, or Bucky, but they stopped appearing anywhere.
2. A Clear path towards the big bad. Yeah we know Kang's the next bad guy, but what's with all the forks in the road to get to where he is? Sometimes, things do not need to be over-complicated.
I was expecting it to go, “and this is what I would do….X-Men..
Thank you for watching and I’ll see you guys next time…peace”.
Props for showing Ippo, as an example for training. He's the epitome of training focus
facts!!! easily my top 10 favorite anime
I agree with the Marvel Spotlight, but not completely with the 2 in 1. I think they should have spent time developing some lesser-known, ground level characters on the small screen over a longer period - ideally, mutants. For example, characters like Domino, Werewolf, Dazzler, Psylocke, Dust, etc. could be compelling and after 3-4 seasons could funnel right into a long-term X-Men story arch that could lead all the way to Genosha.
Rob, I think your solution is only surface deep. The problems with She-Hulk, Thor: Love and Thunder, Multiverse of Madness, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Eternals, et al. aren't that there's too much content. It's that the quality of that content was awful. The decisions made by the writers in terms of character development (or the lack thereof), dubious morality, the on-the-nose social and political activism, wavering continuity within the films and between them, distractingly bad CGI, plots that create myriad of holes in previous films because of thoughtless plot devices or macguffins, no coherency within the universe at present....
I do agree that Marvel needs to scale back on the volume of content. Sure, it "solves" the issue with the TV shows by never making them, but it doesn't do anything to resolve the problems that created the bad content in the first place. Thor: Love and Thunder and Eternals wouldn't have looked any different because the things that made those films bad haven't been addressed. Disney needs get out of the process and let Marvel Studios have full control of the content of their projects. Marvel Studios then needs to go back to their extremely humble cinematic beginnings and look at Iron Man, re-discover what made that hail-mary so successful, and create content with that sincerity.
In a Vanity Fair interview with Feige, Arad, Vavreau, and Downy, Feige and Favreau even out-right state what they were going for (which is different from today) - "You want to mix great casting, *stay true to the characters*, a combined universe that would allow cross-pollination. And having humor and *adherence to canon*."
But here in Phase 4, we have Thor as a clown and She-Hulk writers deciding to I guess deliberately write a bad show to "troll" some people? Jessica Gao and Taika Watiti had no respect for the characters and stories from the comics (I mean, they literally have not read them and know nothing of the characters) and no respect for audiences. In the case of Gao, what are you doing to sincere audience members when you make a show, not to tell a good story with well written characters, but to shit on people who say mean things on twitter?
Marvel could cut back to 2 movies a year and no other content and the quality of those films would not suddenly bring us back to the average quality of phases 1-3.
I agree the quality in the content could be better, hopefully the new Disney CEO can bring back that energy/money. As for burn out. I don’t feel burn out of the MCU, I feel burn out from life, keeping up with bills and short staff at work. Coming home to watch the MCu shows I enjoyed weekly, I can’t stand when I like a show on Netflix, and it’s cancel after 1 season and I never know what the ending results are. If they could bring that Wandavision era, when everyone was trying to theorize the what’s gonna happen next, that would be great. It was great weekly conversation with my friends too.
the plot of the MCU now literally sucks. The writing is legit so bad that it’s sad, and it’s because they no longer care about making quality movies, all they care about is hype and shock value these days. Phase 1 actually had effort put into them, and actually work good as standalone movies. I love the first avenger movie as well as Thor 1. When I kept hearing that people didn’t them I knew I had to give them a try and I was completely shocked by how good they were, compared to what people were saying about them.
The problem is that most MCU fans don’t actually know what good writing and actual story is. All they know are cameos, cameos, and more cameos to carry a film. 🤷♂️
This is what happens when Disney and the evil mouse take control of something they should never have owned to begin with. Star wars sequels got the same treatment. Hopefully things are due to change with the change in leadership in Disney, hopefully creative control is handed back to the people who actually know what creativity means. Hopefully the woke agenda is DESTROYED.
I want to make this clear... I am no hater of female characters, and yes there are female counterparts to nearly every hero in the comics too, but when u REPLACE fan favs with these counterparts... or when u change a character's character to fit your own agenda (making them bi sexual etc.) it's just disrespectful to say the least..
I like phase 4 but jeez how do just introduce a female version of every hero in just one phase when it took 3 phases just to introduce the main characters. 😳 its no longer about story telling its all about agenda and this is where phase 4 fails
Great info, but please try to tone down a bit the background music next time. It's annoying for headphone consumption. Thank you.
I think your right on about phase 4 and your substitution ideas. Unfortunately the Marvel Execs already have the comic fan base so they went on a hunt to gather other demographics and appeal to new audiences just like the Marvel Comics of today. Which means the core fans suffer as they pander to new audiences who will Ultimately reject the whole concept of superhero shows ... and the core fan base will be diminished. Happened before. Happening again. Rinse recycle repeat. Not supporting the core demographic is the path to failure. See Rings if Power. If your not making it for the true fans... Who the f are you making it for ?
Moonknight was great though. Wandavision was different and I liked it. Mixed feelings about loki,, the falcon and the winter soldier and the other shows forgettable. The films were meh except for Shang chi oh no way home was f***ing awesome!
More movies like the epic originals, Don't make jokes out of any loved characters, replace live action Disney plus shows with well written animated shows with today's current characters to get kids drawn into it and have a matching comic for each like back in the day.
If I had to describe it in a single word ied probably say rudderless.
And the to keep going with the boat analogy i could also say its got no wind in its sails, so that no driving force and no way to stear the ship.
Marvel made a massive mistake in infinity war/Endgame in one way or another they removed all posable leaders for the Avengers from the board (Tony-Dead, Steve-old missing and or dead, Natasa-dead, Clint-retired...again, Vision-Dead twice technicallywith Wandavision 3x Dead) and killed off the bad guy that was rallieing everyone together.
Now we did get Kang from loki so we're working on setting up a new driving force but we're still missing someone that could fill that leader role and new character from the Xmen or fantastic 4 will have their own team to manage and their isn't any old Avenger that everyone would follow and most of them would need on the job training (leading is harder than most people think) thinking about it Bucky has the best shot at becoming a leader depending on the events of the Thunderbolts, he has the military training he is charismatic (thanks to his actor) he had quite a high rank in the military so he will have experience leading at least a little so he is just missing a will or obligation to do it and an event to make people see him as a leader.
Both him and Sam have a similar problem they both felt like Caps sidekicks and neither was fleshed out more before removing Steve and the falcon and winter soldier show didn't do enough to make Sam into a leader in my books so that leaves the Thunderbolts to maybe make Bucky into a leader or we can carry on been Rudderless.
Sorry for the wall of text.
Trying to beat Endgame? Ha, Infinity War was WAY better than Endgame. Endgame was the beginning of the downward spiral. The problem is they are trying to make every movie for everyone, as this is the Disney way. This prevents them for going as dark and serious as some story lines require. They need to make Marvel movies for Marvel fans, not make them an all ages theme park on the screen.
It’s not a bad idea. Ultimately though, Phases 1-3 had a consistent theme for almost the entire run. No matter what happens we’ll get through it together. But some can’t be undone. But Phase 4 was ultimately ruined by Endgame. The story telling could have been much better without Endgame.
I look at the MCU like an actual universe. It started at a singular point and is now ever expanding. We're getting content in volume to reflect that expansion. The build-up is still the formula. We're just seeing a bigger view of the surrounding landscape of characters that come with it.
A 2-in-1 show sounds like a production nightmare, but I love the spotlight idea. There is no excuse for Marvel to be putting out bad movies though, which is the real problem of phase 4.
My problem is they’re always messing with time and I hate time travel because there aren’t any real stakes. Lazy easy fixes that lead to convolution with stupid pay offs. I’d rather a story about spidey in queens fighting venom.
One big problem with phase 4 is that it turned the MCU into the M SHE U, making all male characters incompetent, cowards or villains.
I only saw the Spider-Man phase four movie, because the rest just didn't look appealing and a lot of it was just too woke. Hope phase 5 gets back on track.
Well said and well done. No way Disney lets the cashcow go completely. They rather ruin the spirit than start over or adapt. I knew they needed to start over in theory but also knew they would feel it too much of a misstep if they didn't milk it into this ongoing mess. I miss the heart. Characters in general create the heart of the story so why keep the old story while semi starting over but not starting over at all. And, not really making the new bunch as deep or likeable.
Phase 4 has been terrible and the TV Shows are not very good. To say my excitement for the MCU is at an all time low is an understatement.
She Hulk was kinda where i got off the bus and stopped caring. This new MCU doesn't seem to want to cater to the fans of the first 3 phases and they are all opting out.
What’s killing Marvel is Disney trying to compete with Netflix by building a streaming service on the back of Marvel content. I honestly think Kevin is smarter than this but he has not control over that.
What sucks is you KNEW what was coming next with the post credit scenes before. But phase 4s has been Alllll over the place
they sort of did it with the marvel one shots but those only work with the supporting cast. but robs whole idea thing just wouldnt work. it's super wishful thinking.
truth of the matter is phase four is simply trying to reach a new audience. every project doesn't have to be for you. it's an embarrassment of riches and you are free to go in and out. the weakest for me personally was eternals but thats because they tried to cram way too much stuff in. but even then there was things to enjoy from it.
I still don't have this "marvel burnout" I keep hearing about. I'm still racing to be the first on line to whatever marvel has got next.
Introduce the FF4 & X-Men and let them have their "heroes journey". Don't cram content in a Disney plus series.
Marvel doesn’t want to hire you if your a fan of the comics apparently which makes for the horrible political driven sludge pipeline we have been getting all of phase 4
I’m gonna be that guy but I personally believe marvels legacy characters that they’ve mostly been using in the MCU recently aren’t nearly as interesting as dc ones 90% of the time they have the same personalities as the original heroes the only difference is oh it’s a different gender or race so you really need strong storytellers to make those characters worthwhile and far more interesting
It would've worked, but hind sight is 30/30... yeah I know that's not how it's said ! 🙄
The whole spotlight thing is Trash I would rather The Tv shows we get now jus not the 22 min ones and no filler Episodes jus a straight forward plot that Leads to the next project and the movies would jus have to be different then what came before
*Isn't your favourite marvel character Black Bolt Rob?*
The MCU & Disney have shat all over the source material.
Stop the woke BS and read the room.
Yes! Rob’s back 🎉
I have to admit after endgame I was hyped and intrigued with the phase 4 content, but now I really care about the MCU anymore. I think Marcel has over saturated us with content. I lost real interest after moon knight. I think if they released a show every 5 to 6 months and a movie in between, that would have been more manageable and I would still have a high level of intrigue and interest. At this point, I’m just waiting for the x-men reboot and F4 reboot. I don’t really care about anything else at the moment
Phase 4 has been crap
No time to miss them after Endgame? Hello? Pandemic? Phase 4 was no more or less meh than Phase 1. There was just more of it.
phase 4 was experimental, and id rather phase 4 have bombs and them learn a lot by trying new things, rather than keep doing the same old thing.
Ms marvel was decent, I think people are a little harsh on that in my personal opinion
I quite enjoyed that show
Can I just say Thor 4 is a perfect example of what the problem is with phase four.
So I hear the ideas and what I capture is I dont want to move away from what was. Phase Four was not intended to connect everything. It was a pallette cleanse. The move was risky for the very reasons you pointed out and the fact that they used characters not seldom used was even riskier, but I counter with what better time to spread out your universe. You either do it or don't. Commit to the task. I'm sure Marvel figured the response would be mixed because not every character is equally loved in the books. I'll end with this, what does it say about the culture if we collectively are incapable of maturing past what we are familiar with and step into something new?
Trying to do multiverse, Kang, secret invasion, and add mutants at the same time is just too much imo
What happened
Got that old school Rob sound lol
For real!!!
Rob are you ok? You sound like you don’t wanna be here or depressed…
I don't know I really feel like people are being too hard on phase 4 simply because the end of phase 3 was so amazing. But the end of phase 3 was the culmination of phases 1-3. And those phases and their handful of flops. In fact phase 4 is best compared to phase 1 since this is the beginning of a new arch for a big bad villain. Phase 1 was ok. I wasn't even super into Marvel back then. Iron Man 1 was great. Hulk was awesome, Thor was pretty ok and got so so reviews, I was never a Cap fan so I didn't even watch his movie until after Age of Ultron and I didn't even see Ultron until a few years after it came out. Iron Man 2 wasn't great. I didn't like it. It didn't get great reviews. Then you had Thor 2 and Iron Man 3 in phase 2 which also sucked. Winter Soldier was better than Cap 1. I really don't think things started ramping up until Guardians 1 when all the connections really started coming together that Thanos was coming as a real threat and not just a fun Easter egg. Phase 4 had more good than bad. Loki was dope, WandaVision was dope, No Way Home was fire, Multiverse of Madness was ok, Wakanda Forever was dope, Moon Knight was dope. We can't compare everything to the end of phase 3.
…….why does everyone forget about Shang chi?….
5:50 this doesn't matter if they write great stories. Actually taking the time to make great scripts. Getting burned out from great movies has never happened in the history of filmmaking, Rob. Put out better content and this phase would've been celebrated for it's storytelling and innovation, and not ridiculed for it's lack of substance. What's wrong with making a bunch of good movies/series? We all felt this phase was disjointed and without direction. But it would have saved Marvel a whole lot of headache ( and nasty articles) if they respected the source material and wrote their a$$es off. We know overall that Kang will turn the MCU upside down. That is the direction they are going. No matter how bad these stories got we understood that. So better writing would have only highlighted that narrative and made his story more intriguing.
Feige should have known better. The focus and priority had to be on the storytelling and plot and it wasn't. Coming off of the Infinity Saga things had to be tight. Only a few stories were actually good ( Loki, Wanda Vision not Dr. Strange, & Moon Knight). This phase had to be good. Especially with many of the original heroes now gone. It's important to keep the audience's interested. Things will get better if Feige understands the issue and doesn't just go the fan service route.
I like your plan rob...pitch it to fiege..
Here’s my with the projects of phase 4 more simple:
Wandavision: great build up but tried showing Wanda as a hero when she was the villian, I’d argue worse than Agatha, it shows what she’s doing but doesn’t ever give her the consequences for it, and villianized that one guy who just wanted to free the town.
Tfatws: the villians sucked bad and tried way to hard to make us like them and not see them as terrorists when they fit googles definition of terrorists. But the show also tried so hard into showing John walker as the villian when he wants the same thing as the heros.
Loki: tbh I don’t remember much but it took til episode 3 to even pick up
Hawkeye: it’s finale was rushed, and the kingpin reveal was rushed, if they gave the show like 9 episodes then kingpin wouldn’t have felt so sloppy especially when the Netflix shows show us he isn’t sloppy.
Shang chi: great movie but the humor was really forced, and Kate was a really annoying characte, even in serious moments she made them not so serious when they should’ve been, and made things not feel as big as they were
Eternals: I didn’t hate it like everyone but it should’ve been a Disney plus show with how much it introduced and couldn’t equally give things attention
Nwh: good movie, just hated how wasted venom was & how once the villians are introduced peters identity being leaked doesn’t have much weight anymore when it should, and some plot things that make no sense like dr strange knowing the villains were in their world but didn’t know the spider men were in his world
Moon knight: should’ve been 9 episodes, and I don’t read his comics but fans complained he wasn’t even the moon knight they knew from comics because how much they changed, but also hearing the director didn’t want him to be Jewish even tho that’s apart of him
Thor: so much wasted potential, gorr was barely in it and didn’t even butcher enough, was just a kidnapper, tried to hard to be funny when it didn’t need to as much, and should’ve been more serious, and so many things in concept art that should’ve been in the movie
Dr strange: didn’t live up to its name, the Illuminati gets killed off to fast, and Wanda’s turn doesn’t make sense when she was moving on in wandavision but tried getting fake kids back, tries to kill America who is another kid, and never even thought of asking her if she could help her, but also could’ve had kids naturally, but worst of all is she only wants the kids, what about her brother, parents and bf
Ms marvel: I didn’t even watch it tbh
Werewolf by night: was good but to short
She hulk: everything, no story, shit villians, shit cgi, shit jokes, shit message being spread, shit lawyer cases, shit 4th wall breaks
Black widow: taskmaster was ruined so badly, and it’s worse they made the suit to look like a man but had it be a woman, besides the shit villians I think it’s fun, but black widow deserves her trilogy
What if: alright animation, some shit ideas When there’s so much more that we would wanna see instead
Black panther: was good but sometimes dragged a bit, and didn’t have the actor who died, they did good with the main cast who tried to fill his shoes but its something I’m not used to
Marvel definitely destroyed Task Master!!!