EMD SD80MAC: The Rise and Fall of the Conrail Cadillac
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
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► [GL][T-180] ENDEARING EMDs: The Awesome SD80MAC (Conrail's Cadillac) | Trains 21
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![[GL][T-180] ENDEARING EMDs: The Awesome SD80MAC (Conrail's Cadillac) | Trains 21](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4faBUaSmTwU/mqdefault.jpg)
80mac described in 10 words, or less: “the magnum opus of Conrails motive power”
With an interceptor
"Now we're going to a BIG MAC!"
Cowl Unit
I wish I would have got to work on an EMD SD80AC when I was at CSX Transportation. I also wish that Norfolk Southern would have kept their fleet of EMD SD80MAC Locomotives they got from Conrail and the ones they got from CSX Transportation. Sad to see them go. They are a favorite of mine.
I was angry when Norfolk Southern cancelled the SD80ACU rebuild program because of Precision Scheduled Railroading
As a shareholder of their stock, I am glad they have gotten rid of locomotives with expensive operating costs!
@@stephenbroughman3231 Executives and high-level management, are high operating costs.
@@Bill-sp8kbagreed!
I know this comment is a year old now, but I'd say I'm glad they did because those SD80ACUs were definitely gonna be sold off like what happened to the SD70ACUs.
Love these so much. Arguably the last great EMDs to dste. Wish we had one preserved.
I’m missing these things so much but I still have hope Canadian Pacific(Now Canadian Pacific Kansas City or CPKC) still agrees to spare an 80MAC. These things are my favorite diesel locomotives
We'll see.. BTW, loved your video on the SD50.
@@Trains21Yo For real that EMD SD50 video was sooo FIRE🔥🔥
@@Trains21 Thanks man! Great to some other professionals have also taken well to it. Production of that video was rough. I had to write the script while on my way home for Thanksgiving but couldn’t finish it in time before it was time to leave, and so had to finish it over Christmas/New Year break. I was not only rushing a bit but also not narrating it as well as I normally would’ve or should have. Voice projection was poor many places. There was even a few audio distortions post-rendering thanks to making it with Windows Moviemaker, and I even remember sweeping out atleast a dozen shenanigans’ comments from that video that were wining over my narrating style. But now I feel alittle better dismissing their nonsense complaints now that you’ve spoken
It won't happen.
Canadian Pacific purchased six SD80MAC's from PRLX only for the purpose of being parts donors for their SD70ACU rebuilds and what SD9043MAC's remain on their roster.
Any SD80MAC's that were scrapped from PRLX were units that had too much wear and tear from over the years,but there is several that still remain in storage.
It's doubtful that they'll see any secondary service ever again unless a foreign railroad wants them like some in Saudi Arabia,Brazil,and even Australia.
I've always like seeing and listening to the SD80MAC's when they worked coal trains near Cassandra, PA. They were loud. Excellent video AC.
Lucky man! Most of us will never get to hear one 😢
I still remember the first time seeing on of the big macs as a kid back around 1997 or so. It was in Camden, NJ and I was in my moms car and we were driving to somewhere on the highway. I looked over to my right and bam these massive SD80MACs were sitting on a train on what i think is around CP Cooper. It was so big and just screamed raw power idling away with a long string of gondolas and other freight. Ever since I have been a fan on the few rare occasions I saw them afterward in PA but they didn't stay around long as Conrail was split a few years later and we all know rail service has withered in the NE since then. I have a few Kato HO scale versions and they bring back fond memories of what will always be my favorite Big Blue railroad. The best but its just a memory now. Thanks AC for the good memories on a sunday evening.
The problem with the early SD45 20 cyl. engine was our American engineers had the crankshaft throws on several cylinders out of time with torsional vibrations which caused the crankshafts to break way prematurely. The Japanese 🏯 straightened this out by showing our American engineers a little trick in changing the timing on several throws of the crank allowing for a smoother running engine. They've learned this building huge ship engines which don't have the high RPM's as say a smaller diesel engine but the torsional vibrations are the same at any RPM regardless of engine size.
After this was addressed among a few block changes to accommodate the newly designed crank the big V20 was as reliable as it's little brother the V16. The 710 V20 which was found in the Conrail Cadillac SD80mac had a horse power rating of 5000hp and with a little tweaking another 500hp could be produced and according to testing was still as reliable as the 5000hp setting, only thing that brought EMD to only bring the 5000hp setting to fruition was the fact anything over that horse power setting would cause the locomotive to over power the track with the current rail systems nationwide.
This over powering the track was found also in the 6000hp models in the Horsepower Race between GE & EMD which was decided that around 4400 to 4500hp was optimal for our rails here in the states . . .
Back in the 1990s CP Rail almost ordered SD80MACs before it was changed to SD90s. As one CP employee told me, he wish CP Rail ordered SD80MACs
Right before the merge was finalised,CNW also wanted orders of SD80MAC's but they were canceled by Union Pacific because they already had AC6000CW's on their roster.
Man was this needed for a CR modeler such as myself! Just a great memory.
I always liked the SD80MAC, despite there problems. I got to ride on ‘em a couple times once CSX got them and enjoy the ride each time
My favorite locomotive of all time. Being blessed to see them brand new daily in fresh Conrail paint set a new standard for me. The long steep grade past my house gave me many opportunities to see these monsters in full song pulling coal at run 8.
You wonder would Norfolk Southern have ended up buying the 100 SD80MAC's Conrail planned to buy. They would have been very useful in unit coal service on the former Norfolk & Western lines.
If the Conrail Historical Society dosent gets back that 1 SD80MAC from CP, then the SD80MAC is vanished, and is a lost locomotive.
Im thinking that the SD80MAC might have been replaced with the SD70ACU's.
I used to work on these our of enola back in 2015. As much as people like these engines trust me they were beat. Engines would come in week after week for similar issues. 7228 specifically was a problem engine. Csx did them no favors when it came to maintenance and neither did ns when they pulled them away from conway and sent them all over the system. Many guys/shops werent familiar with these engines.
A few of the ones that came over from CSX never got there markers removed just painted over while on NS
I will get my revenge
You forgot to mention about the SD45T-2's which also had 20-645E7's like the SD45's and SD45-2's. Much like the others,they also were rebuilt because of numerous problems involving the crankshafts being broken. The same issues were still present on the SDP45's,SD45M's,FP45's,and F45's.
Although debated,the SD80MAC's were probably the last great EMD units built and still retain the title for being reliable units with a high amount of horsepower. It just so happened that Conrail was the only railroad that actually purchased them. Conrail loved using these units for ore trains much like their C40-8W's. CNW had plans to order SD80MAC's to use for coal trains but the merge with Union Pacific discontinued that. The immense and problematic situations with the SD90MAC-H's and SD70ACE's is what really put EMD down,the SD70ACE-T4's are the worst.
I rode on NS 7227 which was Ex CSX 4601.
I believe Progress rail is producing new SD80ACe or SD80ACU units, they have them listed on their website. As well as modernized GP38s and SD40s for saudi arabia.
Wish these were preserved. It's a shame that these beautiful machines are gone
There’s still one NS 7206 stored deep in CPs shops as no new parts are need for the ACus as 7011 and 7005 are being used as parts
Be nice if we could save one. Railroad management sucks.
Now that technology has advanced, it would be interesting to see what would happen if EMD and GE tried again with the SD80's and 90's and GE with the AC6000.
That sounds like a great idea, as long as they aren't do powerful that they slip too much
The ES44s are still hot garbage. Would be nice to see EMD have another crack at it though.
@@wesw9586What sucks avoit them? Just curious.
@@rx7sportscar just about everything but emissions
@MysticRenn I was a CSX engineer during the time that the AC6000s were being delivered and troubleshot. They had a low-speed "wheel hop" issue among other problems. Sometimes starting them out from a stop on an upgrade would cause the wheels to break traction and "jump" up and down for a little bit. For awhile CSX reduced them to 4300 hp by a software change until they could solve some of the issues. They did eventually put them back up to 6000 hp before I left in 2008. What I will say about them is that they had the most incredible dynamic brakes of any locomotive I ran, being able to all but stop a train on a downgrade with only dynamic braking. They were also very thirsty beasts, consuming 210 gal./hr. of fuel in run 8, so they came with 6600 gal. fuel tanks, which CSX rarely filled most of the way. The main issue with the really high-horsepower units was that they could not reliably run them together in sets of three for fear of tearing trains apart. If you saw a three unit lash-up with them, at least one unit would be something like a Dash-8, hardly ever three 6000s. CSX rates locomotives for lash-up purposes by power and dynamic axles. A lash-up can't exceed 24 in either power or dynamic. An AC6000 was rated at 9 axles in power and 11 in dynamic, so right there you couldn't have more than two in a lash-up with working dynamic brakes without exceeding the limit (it is possible to cut out dynamic brakes on individual units). In fact the only place around the Baltimore area they allowed either SD80Macs or AC6000s in sets of 3 was the Pope's Creek Secondary from Bowie, MD to the power plant at the Potomac River by Rt. 301 and permitted lash-ups of 27 powered axles for trains on that sub. Just for that reason the SD80s were generally assigned to Benning Yard in DC for hauling those coal trains. Someone I know stenciled #800 "Spirit of Benning" for that reason, and they let it stay that way for a couple of years. Incidentally only one of them, I think 801, was ever painted in the YN2 paint scheme, and really looked sharp in it. One of the model companies did an O-scale model of it that was very nice.
Excellent job trucker AC
Thanks DJ
Love the 80s
I don't know what the deal is but these trains have WAAAAAAY TOO MANY NUMBERS AND LETTERS !!! 😊😊😊😊😊😊
Great documentary AC.
Many thanks!
The 80Mac is really what brought EMD down. They were fuel guzzling junkers.
Thumbs-up to you and the video
"There should be SD80Ace units!" There are 7 such units on the Carajas Railway in northern Brazil.
I managed to catch almost all of the ones CSX acquired before they were all painted and subsequently sold off. This, despite the fact that they mainly operated on the Benning DC coal drags and rarely strayed from them.
Do a video on that one engine that has 6,000 hp. Also that unique engine that can raise the center wheel for more traction.
Hi yes I remember seeing these units at Selkirk being used for the Berkshires thanks
I get the reasoning behind their retirement, sort of. Still, NS being cringe per ususal.
Imagine UP SD80MACs through CNW
Excellent capture my friend like and Greetings 😉👍
Thanks
Nice raiway
I don't know what kind of locomotives P&W, CSX uses but I'll have to look that up
Did you make this video because I made a comment relating to the SD80MACs in the PSR video?
I'm surprised Union Pacific didn't acquire any of these.
Before the merge with Union Pacific,the Chicago Northwestern actually had several orders written to EMD that they wanted the SD80MAC's added to their roster.
Union Pacific already had been ordering GE AC6000CW's so they had no interest in them after the merge was finalised and scratched them off the paperwork.
@@Slim_Slidfrom what I’ve learned it was EMD who basically said Fuck off cause they were making a huge order for BN sd70macs
@@justinmalachinski1
What does that have to do with anything? Where did you possibly get that information from? Conrail had 100 SD80MAC's on request but only 30 units were completed because of the split/shut down interupting the orders. The SD70MAC's had nothing to do with anything other than in relation that Conrail went with purchasing those units for quality of AC traction when they were actually thinking about getting the GP60M's themselves and not just ATSF. The SD80MAC's were arguably the last best EMD units built,not just because those are the only successful yet reliable units made with a serious amount of horsepower. All modern EMD units have turned out to be junk in terms of traction and performance,including the SD70MAC's,but the SD90MAC-H's and SD70ACE's were worse. The SD80MAC's would've been a perfect recovery for EMD since everything was going downhill after the GP40-2's & SD40-2's were discontinued. However,technological advancements and emissions regulations have done otherwise.
So i would like to know what the difference is between a EMD SD70 and the SD70Mac?
The SD70s had standard cabs and the SD70MACs had safety/comfort cabs, I am sure there are some more small differences.
SD70 has the standard cab and has DC traction motors
SD70M has the EMD wide cab
SD70MAC was the SD70M with AC traction motors
Another difference, the SD70M-2 and SD70ACe had 4,300 hp prime movers, all of the others were SD70 variants had 4,000 hp. (Willing to be corrected, this was last I knew).
SD70 has conventional cab, DC power, SD70Mac has a whisper wide cab, AC power and some more modern electronics features
Those were some high HP engines, I remember catching those I think before and after they were repainted!🛤🚂👍
Is this a reupload AC or the 80MAC video i asked about?
It's the one that you asked for. The 90s are next.
The cabs on the 80macs looks better than the 90macs
And the wisconsin central was supposed to buy sd80macs
Norfolk southern is gonna keep being norfolk southern, so these will probably be off to the scrap yard soon.
Nootka Southern sold the back to Progress Rail back in 2021
Norfolk*
Yeah I hope NS goes off to the scrap yard.
Are there any left on cp out the few they bought gor parts for their acu fleet last I checked they were just cab and frame
That's pretty much all that's left of em'
But what about SD70ACus
Afaik, the 80macs were all scrapped with the last disposition of some from CP being a move with several to North Dakota where they were cut up around the end of 2020. Also, there was never an SD80ACU program as some are claiming, talked to several employees at JBS, and there never was a plan for such a program.
Yes there was.
Not all of the SD80MAC's have been scrapped.Only the units with the most mileage and usage were likely to meet the scrap torch.
Any others that remain are still in storage with PRLX.On top of that,Canadian Pacific bought six of them just to use them as parts donors only for their SD9043MAC's and SD70ACU rebuilds.
They were deemed to expensive to maintain. NS is trying to cut costs by doing what BNSF and CSX have already done by streamlining their motive power fleet to just 2 or 4 specific locomotive models that share the same parts (GEVOs, AC4400CWs, and Dash 9s). No other model on any Class 1 railroad has 20-cylinder 710 engines, so there was no point in keeping the SD80MACs running. Converting them with 16-cylinder engines would've been more practical, however, GE's are far more affordable and cost-effective than EMD's.
That's a GE
🤦🏿♂️u.p. had sd80mac along with sd90mac/43 mac's
Correction, CNW ordered 15 SD80MACs right before the merger but UP canceled it and replaced it with more SD90MACs.
@@DFWRailVideos no sir, I still got some of the old manifest print-outs from back then. U.p. had sd80macs, most used on west bound coal and grain trains out of little rock, ar... I know this cause my dad use to work for mopac/up, and also my grandfather was apart of the crew who built the u.p. Jinx yard in North Little Rock, Ar... Don't know exact numbers tho, but they did have sd80mac's.
@@DFWRailVideos and just incase if your not familiar with u.p. manifest print-outs (and im only speaking on u.p. cause idk other railroad logs), it gives you train name, the engines railroad company (like s.p., n.s., bnsf, etc.)engine road numbers, engine model, engine horsepower, and if it's a dpu or not. Follow by each car and it's contents.
@@mikestafford3182 UP did not have SD80macs, they were never ordered by CNW or UP. Externally the SD90s and 80s are the exact same apart from the light placement, and the very rear.
@@milepost26.69 correction, they did have 80macs!... how they obtained them idk (i can only assume)and don't care, but you talking to somebody who actually seen, been on them (while on duty) and have paperwork and logs to prove this fact, also grew up around the jinx yard and diesel shop. And the sd90macs eventually got discontinued or converted because of over-heating problems. Humbly just saying
*PromoSM*