The Avengers
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- Опубліковано 22 лют 2016
- Welcome to Atop the Fourth Wall, where bad comics burn. In this episode, Linkara looks at the infamous Avengers #200.
atopthefourthwall.com
Originally uploaded March 31st, 2014.
ORIGINAL INFO: Babies and other dimensions and a whole lot of just awful.
RUMINATIONS: At the end of the year, I did a “Top 15 Worst Comics I’ve Reviewed” excluding Holy Terror since it was the big obvious choice and Avengers #200 hit the high spot… and I still mean it. There are certainly worse on a technical level, but I think the fact that this one was supposed to be done by experienced professionals says a lot about its badness. It’s like that with movies sometimes - there are plenty of enjoyably awful movies that people recognize for their awfulness, but then there are ones so devoid of joy and entertainment that are much more slick that you actually hate all the more since it seems like somebody, ANYBODY should have been able to step in and stop it from being a problem. The same goes for comics, and one would think that major milestone books would have had that same level of scrutiny to ensure they’re the best damn thing they could put forth, since even putting aside the awful treatment of Ms. Marvel, doing 200 of a creative endeavor should be something that’s given a grandiose treatment and instead this could have been issue #63 and it would have made no difference to anything. - Комедії
Whenever I'm arguing with friends "what character got treated the worst by the creative team?" I always say "Ms. Marvel, when she was kidnapped, brainwashed, raped, had her vagina used as a portal to another dimension by the rapist so she could give birth to him, and got to live *happily ever after (sarcasm)* with her rapist/son." That usually wins me the Argument.
+Clayton Dills Just out of curiosity, who they do usually start off thinking is treated the worst?
ElvenRaptor Krillin from DBZ.
Clayton Dills I am as knowledgeable to DBZ as an ant is to quantum physics, unfortunately. How was Krillin treated poorly by the writers on that show?
+ElvenRaptor I'm in the same boat as you with the DBZ fanbase , but what I guess is that they turn him into comic relief.
+Clayton Dills overshadowed by another pupil, constantly getting his butt kicked. arms broken, ribs broken. being impaled on horns then blown up. and oh yeah... him and some of the others were thrown into a simulation where over and over again they were brutally murdered to train..... and while yes some comic relief he was the human that was involved in most major events. he also had to watch his wife and daughter get more or less assimilated into an alien hive mind. so yeah there was quite a few times he could rank up close to ms. marvel.
Few people actually know this, but the "A" on Captain America's forehead stands for "apple pie ."
No it stands for France
I was thinking "asshat."
@@aforcemorepowerful but that means he surrenders
@@lorddrayvon1426 That's Ultimates Cap
He fought bravely in WWII to protect our apple pies
Linkara: "The real reason we fought the Nazis was because they were trying to steal all our pies."
Me: "And that's terrible."
In comics land that makes sense since fruit pies have magic powers
The Nazis wanted to take our apple pie? BASTARDS!
Ah, I see you're a man of culture, as well.
Reminds me of a variation of a phrase Film Brain came up with "When you need to add substance to your crappy story. Just add nazis."
Only if they stole 4 10s.
"Being tossed aside to live a happy life with her rapist husband son in Limbo" sounds more like a bad soap opera than a comic book.
TBH especially in this time period a lot of the interpersonal drama was rather Soap Operaish, though to be fair in comic books it makes a bit more sense when it turns out you were actually sleeping with your lover's evil twin...
Comicboom storytelling fluctuates between divine comedies, epic drama, professional wrestling, annoying farce and shitty soap operas
When you boil it down, comics are effectively soap opera with superpowers and more fight scenes. So, yeah, that adds up.
*a bad soap opera set in Alabama
Sounds like an episode of charmed.
You know that "real baby" line actually is hilarious in hindsight considering Scarlet Witch and her history with fake babies.
This is doubly hilarious post Wandavision
@@qty1315 show
@@tomsmurf4225 so now she has history with fake babies in 2 mediums
Even more hilarious after Multiverse of Madness.
We found it guys, a love story that is worse than Twilight
Clearly you never heard of Fifty Shades
+grkpektis I don't like Twilight but even the romance wasn't as disgusting as this. It's still bad but I don't see Edward or Jacob trying to rape Bella in order to give birth to themselves!
Is it worse than SW Episode II and Sonic '06 sad excuse of a "love story?"
+dnmstarsi
Yeah, Twilight had a werewolf falling in love with a newborn baby, and it's *still* a better love story than Avengers 200, because at least the damn dog had the sense to *WAIT* until she could reciprocate his feelings consensually. >*shudder*
Eh, I'd be inclined to agree with you, but the fact that this "romance" was later undone - complete with Marcus getting a karmic death and Ms. Marvel acknowledging how fucked up the whole thing was and calling out the Avengers for their idiocy - elevates it to simply "as bad as Twilight".
Tony's alcohol stash mysteriously gains a bottle of absinthe. Here's what he experienced.
Baggy Trousers This is a running gag, isn't it?
This is an underrated comment.
This is what turned him away in demon in a bottle.
Ah The Avengers.
A member suffers a nervous breakdown and creates a separate personality. LET'S HAVE A WEDDING.
Alien plant creature wants to use a member as a brood mare and takes the form of her deceased lover? LET'S HAVE A DOUBLE WEDDING.
@Brigid Madden But no one ever called out the Wasp for pushing ahead with it and trapping Hank into a marriage once they found out. Sure she offered to dissolve it, but no one argued that Hank wasn't in the best state of mind when he "decided" to stay married.
When you add in that Jan looks like his dead first wife, the fact that no one figured that maybe it was time for Hank to figure out his life BEFORE committing to a marriage.
Which comics are they?
@@SteveCrafts2kthe first one is issue 60
Hilariously enough, you could make "subtle manipulations of ingenious machines" without meaning "rape" or "mind control", if he had explained that the machines manipulated situations to make awesome dates. Like a wave machine creating a fake beach to have a date in the beach in a place where there is no beach or something along those lines.
But given this story, it's probably rape.
Or hell even the way the mad hatter used his mind control devices in his debut episode. yes it was still immoral but still better than being a rapist.
That would be a lot better, but with the creepy asshole vibes I am getting off of this guy, it is very likely that the "subtle manipulations of ingenious machines" he brings up is a code word for him using technology to brainwash her and rape her.
I'm surprised no superhero/supervillain with a ton of tech *hasn't* done that. If nothing else, Tony Stark would absolutely be enough of a showoff to use his tech to make an amazing holodeck style thing purely for date purposes. But then again, that sounds a bit too consensual for this comic.
Or maybe its the universe's greatest massage chair and ms. Marvel fell in love with that
@@dannyfenlon2476
Where is Kratos or when you need him?
Maybe Carol would be interested in Kratos.
Atreus: Stop thinking like a father for a moment and start thinking like a General-
Kratos: NO!
Ladies and gentlemen. Behold a story so bad, even the creators aren't entirely sure where it came from.
I suspect the entire creative team just decided to collectively repress the memories of it.
I don't blame them, either. Just thinking about this comic fills me with the urge to start screaming and never stop.
+Gabriel Martinez I'm pretty sure they're sure, it's just that none of them one to admit to it.
I think they drank a lot after the issue was printed.
(Drinking as much as tony stark.)
@Mullerornis I wish I could.
Im imagining Shooter, Perez, Layton and Michelinie waking up in a crop circle with the completed script lying between them
The story came from another dimension and impregnated their minds with itself so it could exist in this world.
It's the only possible explanation.
This has got to be the worst "How I met your Mother" episode ever....
Lonel650 haha your right
Dawson Tanner I actually really like how I met your mother but I can see why you don’t like it no it’s not for everyone.
@@yoranger8349 damn I was just making a dumb joke in total ignorance, didn't know poeple would actually care that muchaha xD
Lonel650 oh I’m so sorry I didn’t mean to be like that I am so sorry
Dawson Tanner yes definitely again I am really sorry
"For generations the symbolic root values of the American people have been embodied in the phrase: Mom, apple pie and the girl next door"
And to the villain of the story, all three of those values are one and the same thing.
That’s horrific
Marcus thinks carol makes good apple pie?
(Don’t get me wrong, I understand the first and last ones all too well, but I don’t quite get the middle one.)
@@daelen.cclark "Pie".
@@bunnybismuth
Thanks, correcting it now.
This should be part of the 'Big Four' of AT4W episodes one should watch to understand how a comic or series can be bad - Ineptitude ( _Marville_ ), Editorial Meddling ( _Countdown_ ) Deplorable Content ( _Holy Terror_ ) and this; sheer, baffling, "What were they _thinking?_ " premises.
+Fors Clavigera The only other thing that I think even reaches "what were they thinking" level of premises is Ultimate FF, also from Marvel. The final story was about Ultimate Susan Storm having to have a magical baby by Ultimate Reed Richards (who is a mass murderer at this point) in order to save the universe. She did nothing else in the comic other than being a baby maker and trying to cut open Reed's balls to get his seed.
No, I am serious. This is a comic that happened in 2014!! Marvel has learned jackshit about avoiding crappy ideas.
+J.R. Richards Holy shit! I heard the Ultimate FF was bad, but that sounds absolutely horrible.
+Fors Clavigera
What about Ultimatum? I still think Wasp got the worst in those issues.
+Fors Clavigera I'd put All-Star Batman an Robin in for 'hilariously bad/good creator gone off the rocker'.
+J.R. Richards Thank god for secret wars 2015 then. WHAT THE FUCK?! WHY THE FUCK, EVEN?!
"It's national Poke-a-Hontus week."
Get. The fuck. Outta here;
*NO WAY* someone wrote that!
"GOD, I NEED A SHOWER!!"
Ahh, another prime example of Linkara TRULY HATING a comic book.
Everyone watching the birth WOULD make sense if the dialog mentioned anything like: "We don't know what she'll give birth to. It could be a threat to the whole world. We need to be prepared for anything."
Nope, they all act like family members waiting to welcome their new niece or nephew. Carol is the only one who mentions how creepy this is and they think SHE'S the one with the problem.
But then the second she's around Marcus she stops being bothered. It's almost as if some feeling or force gripped her mind and made her like him.
@@WannabeWryter Damn man you are incredibly smart, did you know? In fact, that was the case, as revealed in Avengers Annual #1 or #10 in Carol's "The Reason You Suck" Speech/Rant towards the Avengers. In fact, she even lampshades this, ridiculing the Avengers on how they couldn't catch on to that bullshit for under their shitty braindead tonedeaf responses toward her unusual pregnancy surprise
@@valtinatorprime4516 I decided to read those pages, and it’s surprising how something so disgusting and bad managed to pave the way for something incredibly heartfelt and in a way, beautiful
Donald Blake seemed weirded out by this, but think its because he's a doctor
That dialogue would also explain why the characters are in their costumes or left to change into them if they are expecting to fight whatever hellspawn came out of Carol they need to be ready.
This is it people. Forget Marville. Forget All-Star Batman and Robin. Forget the Spider-man Clone Saga. Forget the Silent Hill Comics. Forget the New 52 DC reboot. Forget One More Day. Outside of the 300th episode, THIS is the worst comic that Linkara has reviewed on this show.
Yea. It frightens me, what horrid comic would be worthy of being reviewed in his upcoming 400th episode.
+Robo - Nidai *Except for Holy Terror.
Holy Terror wasn't very good.
PolarPhantom I did say OUTSIDE of his 300th episode.
Robo - Nidai I didn't mean to talk to you, sorry.
+Jake Bryant (JBryant) I'm hoping for civil war given that the movie is coming, and he talked about possibly reviewing it back in episode 200.
How to fix this comic:
1. Ms. Marvel was trapped in Limbo by a malevolent force or a freak accident. Marcus helped her out of the situation and they fell in love naturally.
2. Ms. Marvel was the one who wanted them to be together on Earth. Marcus thought up the pregnancy thing but was unsure about it because it could be risky. Then have them both agree that their love was worth the risk so they try it.
3. The process of the pregnancy thing goes wrong and fragments their memories. Ms. Marvel forgets the whole situation and Marcus knew a few things like needing the machine, but not the full details of what's going on and why.
4. Both of them slowly remember as time goes on, with Ms. Marvel remembering her love and trust in Marcus, and Marcus remembering cryptic details that keeps the mystery going and prevents him from fully explaining himself to anyone.
5. By the time the machine is destroyed, both of them remember enough of what has happened and they have the big exposition dump about what was going on.
6. Marcus is unwilling to risk the pregnancy thing again out of fear of an even worse accident occurring, so Ms. Marvel decides to stay in Limbo with her love instead.
It probably wouldn't fix everything or make the comic good, but that's just 6 easy steps to keep it from being the trash that it is.
Necrikus mind you, this whole story sounds like a bad idea all around but your method seems to be much better while trying to make sense.
Here's one easy way to change the ending to this issue: go with Linkara's head canon that this was all a drunk dream of Tony Stark. ^_^
+dnmstarsi this story sounds like one of Bennett The Sage's Slashfics
i totally agree!
@@willpitts5223 this could have been passable, but no, we need a creepy rapist's son to screw Carol to give birth to himself! Some one get me the infinity gauntlet, this needs to be fixed!
You know, Marvel did the whole "mystical pregnancy" idea a whole lot better in Jason Aaron's WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN series, where Kitty Pryde suddenly became 8 months pregnant, but Beast discovered that she had been implanted with a Brood egg sac (think H.R. Geiger-like aliens) and the rest of the X-Men had to shrink down to microscopic size and fight off the millions of brood invading Kitty's body. It was fun and enjoyable, and the X-Men actually gave a crap about Kitty's feelings on the matter unlike the abomination that was AVENGERS #200!!!
PS. I actually read Avengers Annual #10, and not only was Ms. Marvel's rant against the Avengers 100% satisfying, but it was also the story where Rogue stole her powers and Carol Danvers stayed with the X-Men for awhile until she got her powers back during the THE BROOD SAGA, where she became Binary!
+Naruto85RasenShuriken oh something better from the X Men during this time: their crossover with the New Teen Titans against both Dark Phoenix and Darkseid. not kidding look it up
Rafael Jimenez Was that part of the Amalgam Universe or Marvel Vs. DC Event? Also, I believe that the Dark Phoenix is the most powerful character in the Marvel Universe, and the Anti-Monitor is the most powerful villain in the DC Multiverse!
+Naruto85RasenShuriken Even though that one was _meant_ to be a body-horror story as opposed to A#200 being 'accidentally' so, Mystical Pregnancy storylines just seem to be almost impossible to pull off without either being too gross to be suitable for a mainstream comic plotline or filling it with characters reacting with inappropriate flippancy and "makes-it-easy"isms to prevent there being any lasting consequences (didn't that X Men plot essentially end with Kitty being given 'super penicillin'?)
I don't doubt that the plotline you mention is much better than this, though, even if that's rather a low bar :P
Fors Clavigera I don't remember if she received "super penicillin," but Beast ended up planting a bomb on the egg sack causing her to vomit it along with the rest of the X-Men out of her body. What made that story actually good in my opinion was that it embraced the lavishly ludicrous idea of going inside someone else body to fight aliens, and even when during all of this, Kitty was still able to fight off against some Brood aliens invading the school while protecting another student (who was actually an intelligent and non-carnivorous Brood). And while the story was also full of witty-Joss Whedon style banter, it took itself seriously enough that there weren't any unfortunate implications or disgusting elements like there were in AVENGERS #200. For instance, when Beast is first monitoring Kitty's "baby" he does make some jokes about her not taking Gambit's health class when she asks how this happened, but the moment he discovers that its actually a brood egg sac, he stops joking and desperately tries to get the aliens out of her in a serious manner.
The characters were not treated like idiots there and actually cared about Kitty's dilemma.
The WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN comic series as a whole was just fun and enjoyable! I'd highly recommend reading Jason Aaron's run on the book if you have the chance!
My God, Oedipus and Freud would probably go on a drinking binge if they read this.
Kirby Warner I mean, to be fair, Oedipus never MEANT to marry his mother.
that doesnt make it any better, buuuuut yeah.
I mean, Oedipus had to dull the pain of gauging his eyes out SOMEHOW...
I'd love to see that as a comic, who else agrees?
Oedipus NEEDED a psychoanalyst.
@@halowaffle25 and he was visibly distraught after finding out the woman was his mother and stabbed out his eyes as penance, even though the whole situation wasn't really his fault.
One of my favorite AT4W episodes. Also, this comic lead to the creation of The New Teen Titans. George Perez was so disgusted by this that he left Marvel entirely where he met up with Marv Wolfmen to do the Teen Titans.
+Matt Lipton So something GOOD came out of this piece of shit? (Aside from this AT4W episode) Well I'll be damned
in fact if anything, the character of Starfire was pretty much a screw you to how Marvel treated Carol since despite her troubled past, Starfire still faced her problems and remained her happy self.
still I wonder what if Chris Claremont wrote the New Teen Titans instead of Marv Wolfman?
+KidSnivy69 Another good thing we got from this was Rogue from the X-Men, as she later stole Ms. Marvel's powers in Avengers Annual #10, and also, she gave the Avengers the scolding that they deserved in that issue! Boy was it completely satisfying to watch! As a result, Carol left the Avengers and stayed with the X-Men until her powers recovered. As a result, she got to be a supporting character in THE BROOD SAGA, where she along with several dozen other X-Men were abducted into space by the Brood, a hostile alien race that reproduces by mutating other life forms into Brood themselves (you can easily see the influences from H.R. Geiger's ALIEN). It was a fantastic alien horror story, and saw Ms. Marvel regain her powers in the form of Binary, where she got to kick some major butt! As a die-hard X-Men fan myself, I can easily say that Carol's role in THE BROOD SAGA helped make the story even more awesome!
I think what we can take from all of this is that we can thank Chris Claremont for giving Carol Danvers the treatment she deserved after her character assassination in the travesty known as AVENGERS #200!
laz kar Very true! Now where's Marvel's apology for ONE MORE DAY?!
laz kar I loved RENEW YOUR VOWS, as it was exactly what I want to see in the mainstream Spider-Man books! As for THE CLONE SAGA, I honestly don't hate it as much as everyone else. While I freely acknowledge that it has a ton of problems, there are a lot of good elements such as Ben Reilly, Kaine, MJ's pregnancy, and Peter retiring out of fears of becoming a neglectful father, along with some really great stories like THE LOST YEARS, REDEMPTION, THE EXILE RETURNS, WEB OF DEATH, and AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #400! I actually did a full 16-part review series that covered several major CLONE SAGA stories, and there were only three stories that I actually hated (SMOKE AND MIRRORS, TRIAL OF PETER PARKER, and especially MAXIMUM CLONAGE!).
While I did enjoy THE REAL CLONE SAGA, I honestly don't need an apology for it as despite THE CLONE SAGA's problems, it has enough good elements that I stand behind.
I have a theory as to why all of the Avenger's were acting so stupid! Remember Linkara's review of MAXIMUM CLONAGE and how Peter was acting so whiny and idiotic to the point that he was willing to join the Jackal and help him kill the entire human population and replace them with clones? My hypothesis for Peter's idiotic behavior in that story was that the Jackal's body produced some sort of airborne virus that makes people grow stupider whenever they're within a close proximity to him! My evidence to support this theory was that all of the characters in MAXIMUM CLONAGE acted stupid whenever they were in the same room with the Jackal, and acted less stupid things when they were far away from him.
So basically, I believe that somehow in AVENGERS #200, Marcus somehow broke the boundaries of time and space in order to infect all of the other Avenger's with the Jackal's "Stupid Virus." It's the only way I can see the Avengers acting so moronic. Either that, or they somehow ran into Al, Mickey, and Lucy from MARVILLE, as that comic is a sheer black hole of idiocy!
headcanon accepted
Makes more sense than this comic.
That would a great scheme for a supervillain in an actual comic. It could also satirize all those storylines you mentioned. Like heroes become slightly incapacitated in their common sense and intellect by this, but suddenly realising something is up and try to create a cure.
That is a good theory, I would also accept that Marcus was able to brainwash everyone there into being excited for the baby and letting him take Carol away even when he was in the womb. There has to be an explication as to why they were all so stupid during this story.
julianarwen or have nextwave, deadpool, and squirrel girl!!!
Y'know what's the biggest irony of this whole thing, at least for me personally?
THIS is what ultimately got me to reading Kamala Khan, the new Ms. Marvel. Watching this review made me curious about Carol, which I've known before certainly, but watching this review is the first time that I found out that Carol became Captain Marvel. Then the notice at the end saying that there was a new Ms. Marvel got me even more curious, so I looked it up...and that's what led me to buying my first Marvel comic ever, Ms. Marvel #1. Since then I've been reading Ms. Marvel with dedication, and keeping tabs with what's going on with Marvel's other stuff.
That would a funny story to tell someone
"Why'd you start reading Ms. Marvel?"
"Well I heard of a story in which Carol Danvers got raped by some idiot in order to give birth to himself and I got curious!"
"Ok then."
+MTdaBlacking
not only that said idiot also bent the space time continuum after he was born(again) because he was incompatible with our dimension however he was completely incompetent and instead of explaining that he could fix everything and instead decided knocking out his hypnotized mother/wife/rape victim was the right option to take
i have a similar story towards my first DC book.
I got intrested in mr miracle and big barda because of one linkara's reviews.
so i got intrested to dc due to the comic where both superman and big barda are implictly raped...
*+pipo berber* Oh Gods, THAT one? Wow, how ironic... What's next, then; The Falcon gets more fans because of that one story where we learned that he was not a social worker with a stable family life but a pimp, who was brainwashed into being good by Red Skull using the Cosmic Cube - a story which was revealed in 2014 to be the ACTUAL fiction, and Sam Wilson really was just a decent man who became a social worker to help people all along...? Thank Gods that the MCU has such a good characterisation of the guy (making him a war veteran and counsellor was a genius means to have Sam form an instant connection with Steve, and really kept to the core essence of what the character is about).
Well, if I can say nothing else that's positive about them, I suppose I can say that, um, bad stories like this get new fans interested through people like Lewis ripping them a new one? Yeah, that sounds about right... (oh, and I guess that Darkseid sitting on a couch is somehow hilariously stupid AND stupidly hilarious).
Tv Tropes calls this phenomenon (albeit in the broader sense, not just the negatives) a "Colbert Bump" - defined as when something
I guess at least one good thing came out of this horrifying story because Kamala is a pretty cool character, I am also reading her comics pretty faithfully too and looked around a lot of Walgreens stores because they had a Funko of her.
Marvel was partying hard for their 200th issue and everyone was too drunk or high (or both) when this was created. Its the only explanation why they would mark such a monumental event with such an epic fail.
Also as awful this debacle was, I'll give credit that at least even the creators publicly acknowledges it is awful and Jim Shooter was man enough to take responsibility for it. I'm still waiting for Quesada to apologize for One More Day.
So you mean it's like Valkyrie's entrance in Thor Ragnarok? Trying to look cool only to fall flat on your face because you're too drunk?
@Darth_ Madara If I was given the chance to write for Spider-Man, my only condition would be to undo One More Day. And then I’d convince EVERY OTHER POTENTIAL WRITER OF SPIDER-MAN to agree to that sentiment. Either have Spider-Man die, or undo the mistake that ruined him
Captain America fighting Native Americans. I feel like that should mean something.
Triggered
With that whole "Captain America is a sleeper agent of Hydra" stunt they tried to pull months ago it definitely means something horrible.
That explains the whole "Hail Hydra"
The only person that can truly defeat Captain America, is Captain Vietnam
DonpatchXD Fun fact! Did you know that in Captain America #300 (the finale to the DEATH OF THE RED SKULL Arc), writer J.M. DeMatteis (one of my personal favorite comic writers by the way), originally intended to have the issue end with Steve Rogers retiring and being replaced with the Black Crow, a Native American superhero whose a wheelchair-bound psychic (and an original creation of DeMatteis), as the new Captain America? It would've been an interesting idea as not only did DeMatteis want to have Rogers undergo a character Arc of him rejecting violence, but it would've also showed that Native Americans are also "true" Americans by having Black Crow fill the role as the new Sentinel of Liberty...
For better or worse however, the idea was rejected by Marvel Editorial and DeMatteis ended his run on Captain America immediately afterwords in protest (though he did revive the idea of a hero rejecting violence years later in THE LIFE AND TIMES OF SAVIOR 28)...
The Secret Origin of Chester A. Bum. I died
And yet Chester is a better character than Marcus.
+dnmstarsi why wouldn't he?
@@dnmstarsi 😂 now that’s a good joke
The phrase "rapist husband-son" has now been burned into my memory, where, unfortunately, it will in all likelihood, remain.
Here's an interesting trivia for ya: Avengers 200 was published the same month as X-Men 138; the final issue of the Dark Phoenix Saga.
Both stories involves brainwash and a send-off for a female heroine who has Marvel in her name... At least for the time being.
The main difference was that DPS is considered the highest point for the X-Men while this storyline was the lowest point for the Avengers.
Talk about a difference in quality.
And that polarizing difference would again show in an event comic we do not talk about...
And hilariously, X-Men writer Chris Claremont was the one who did damage control for this issue
Little known trivia: Avengers #200 was meant to be a modern reinterpretation of Oedipus Rex.
Okay, well, maybe not, but would it really surprise anyone?
Bonus points for Jocasta being the name of Oedipus' mom. Squicky.
+Olive N
Still bad though. It would be an understatement of the century to say that Marvel dropped the ball.
Then why isn't Ultron in the issue since he's got an Oedipus complex.
2014 - back when people didn't know who Vision was.
I knew him
heh I saw civil war an I still don't know him aside he exists
Marvel Ultimate Alliance was the first I've heard of him
there, now you know me more
2017 - when nobody cares who Vision is.
Eh i knew about him by the game Captain America & the Avengers and some comics and that one animated movie where super heroes had children and Ultron killed them all(Young Avengers if i recall) and he was awesome in Earth's Mightiest Heroes.
Avengers 199-200 I think this quote from Lightning Bliss sums it up: "Congratulations, you have invented a new kind of stupid, the damage you can never undo kind of stupid, an open all the doors in the zoo kind of stupid, truly you didn't think this through kind of stupid."
snakes3425 That’s a Hamilton quote
Perfect idea for a scene in the next Captain Marvel movie:
Carol is drinking at a dive bar. A sleazy guy with curly hair and a goatee introduces himself as Marcus and tries to hit on her. She’s clearly not interested, but he insists on putting the moves on her, so she punches him hard enough to send him flying across the room and embed him into a wall. Everyone cheers for her.
Well, everyone cheers except for the misogynistic manbabies who bitch and moan about Captain Marvel because the strongest hero in the MCU is a girl and that hurts their feefees.
@@jonathankent1517 That’s not entirely why people complain about Captain Marvel. People just think the movie and comic versions of her are boring and lack personality. Brie Larson, despite being a pretty good actress, just didn’t portray the character all that well imo. Her being powerful has nothing to do with it.
That scene had to be cut do to it making her look like a bitch.
@Doodleboy 565
If you are genuinely ignorant, go and see that the complaining began before the movie was released. Feige said she would be most powerful character, and people spend huge amounts of time hating Brie Larson because she said she wanted diversity among critics. Tons of videos and complaining in Twitter and elsewhere was made where people were certain that “go woke and go broke” would mean that the movie would flop and then it made a billion dollars and created even more reasons for those people to hate the film. Not thinking the film is the best Marvel film isn’t the same as the hate although people often pretend it’s just about the quality of the film even though we can still read the earlier discussions and see the hate directed towards the actress.
I'd love to see that... though I wonder if some people wouldn't get the reference.
Not sure if that's a good or bad thing.
How could Marcus be lonely in Limbo , when he is able to bring not only Carol Danvers , but also pluck many others out of time whenever he wants !?!?
Just as a note; Spider-Man's 200th issue featured him finally catching the guy who killed Uncle Ben.
Awww what a great idea for a comic book story to celebrate a 200th issue of a popular series. If only this could have happened in a storyline different from this overall.
Everyone involved in this issue, right down to the coffee boy who was only there on Tuesdays, has since been visited by Darth Vader on orders of Walt Disney himself, and have been made an example of
and they said the Disney merger was a bad idea
The coffee boy's name is Oliver Swanick
I'm not even an Avengers fan and I'm offended by this comic. To be fair, I'd be absolutely perplexed by someone who wasn't offended by this comic.
@@miguelbranquinho7235 Why would you not be offended at a story romanticizing assault?
@@miguelbranquinho7235 and what did that "pause for thought" make you feel about this book?
It's less that I'm offended and more _disturbed and repulsed!_
Would love to see Linkara review that follow-up story where Carol reveals to the Avengers that Marcus brainwashed her (cause apparently they had their heads to far up their @$$ to remember Marcus basically admitted that he manipulated her)! Personally, I think it would be nice to highlight a story that confronts the damage caused by a really bad one! Hopefully one of his Patreons will pay for it!
I feel bad for Brie Larson since she is reading all the Captian Marvel stuff right now, what happens if she stumbles across this?!?!
She'd probably hope to God that the writers don't adapt Avengers #200 or Marcus (and probably Limbo and Immortus for that matter) into the Cinematic Universe in the future.
God no don't say that this story was badly horrible.
Jordan Bonn I can see her having a troubled backstory before joining the army
The only way I will accept that creepy asshole Marcus in the MCU is if he walks over to Carol and says "Hello my name is Marcus" and as a response Carol blasts him with one of her beams killing him and destroying his body so there is no way that he can be brought back to life. Then we have Carol saying how she got the feeling that she just avoided something terrible.
Morgan Young nah Carol shouldn't kill someone espically this early in her career how about just break his arm if he tries to make a move
Me: This was honestly the worst mistake Marvel ever made-
Captain America: Hail Hydra.
Me: This was honestly the second worst mistake Marvel ever made!
Could third worst mistake be Peter Parker and his wife's deal with Satan?
@@DarsiPadilla Let's not forget making Peter's parents jerks in Trouble. It's mistakes all the way down.
No the other way round. This is Rape. How is CAP saying That worst?
@UCy569noVoaQgivSnYd19ajA i have seen it, I still do not belive it is worse than rape. I understand it was a joke Btw.
I don't get how Shazam in the new 52 can introduce himself to other heroes without changing back into Billy Batson, which honestly is the main reason I still call him Captain Marvel
indy6s According to the Wizard, just saying "Shazam" isn't enough, the word must be said with conviction and good intentions
@@Rgoid not true as wonder woman has used the lasso to force him to say it before and he transformed.
@@The_Evening_Sun I think that was pre 52
I think he just has to shout it loudly to do anything.
@@Rgoid doesn't that just take away his biggest weakness?
34:20 "Now we get to the worse part."
Wait? How the hell can this get worse?
35:02 Oh God. It did
...Break open the beer storage, it's one of those comics again...
The exact words of the people who made this, I'm sure.
+ProbeVoyages why would they say that if they're the ones who made it?
We used it up on marville
Top 5 Comics MARVEL Should Remove from it's continuity all together and pretend they never happened
1. One More Day
2. Avengers #200
3. Utimatium
4. Heroes Reborn
5. Clone Saga
To be fair, the clone saga isn't acknowledged very often, and when it is, they bring up Scarlet Spider who is awesome (both Ben Reilly and Cain).
This one they don't bring up ever, so it's basically non-canon.
Ultimatum isn't canon either (Ultimate universe is destroyed).
I have no idea what Heroes Reborn is, but it probably isn't acknowledged either.
+Eugenideddis Unfortunately One More Day is still canon, and stupid.
+Eugenideddis Heroes Reborn was a crossover series where the Avengers and the Fantastic 4 were transported to a pocket universe by Franklin Richards so that they could escape from Onslaught. I wouldn't say that it's as bad as something like One More Day but it was drawn by Rob Liefeld and the heroes having their origins changed was a waste of time so it's definitely a bad comic.
+snakes3425 Also The Crossing/Teen Tony. Not that it's ever acknowledged anymore. Ever.
snakes3425 anything involving America Shaveze
This world needs more Drunk!Tony impressions.
Yeah but Demon in a Bottle happened and Ultimate Iron Man is not the main Iron Man (which is good but not for this show).
"I'm NoT dRuNk! YoU'rE dRuNk!"
Peter: Wait I'm the company mascot, I've got a 50 year legacy behind me, you've only been Ms. Marvel 2.0 for five years how did you get to be on the Avengers before me....Avengers #200
Kamala: yep
Peter: You own a copy
Kamala: yep
Peter: Blackmailed the Avengers
Kamala: Nope
Peter: Blackmailed MARVEL and Disney
Kamala: Yep
Peter: Dinner and a movie
Kamala: Thought you'd never ask
Peter became an Avenger in the mid 2000's.
The most generous read of “subtle manipulations” would be a boom box with a Marvin Gaye tape.
The whole "women are a mistery" thing always baffles me... We're like, just people
Hmm you sure you werent born on saturn?
One of the worst and infamous comics where Marvel once again treats one of their female characters like garbage. I mean going back to Spiderwoman to Wasp killed off needlessly in Secret Invasion, ignored for years, brought back, barley used, and now being replaced. Even now a days where rumor is She-Hulk is going die for stupid plot points or kill War Machine for even stupider plot points. You make a good point about surrogate part. People are surrogate parents for other people all the time or at least at the time of the book.
It feel like some of those people are kinda sexist to their fictional female characters while show to have some misogynist toward them, as well.
Man, why do some people had some misogynist views to women of all people?
Do nobody cares about both gender and equal rights anymore?
Why do we all livef in a world with such things ever exist?
@@billymccrary2246 it’s gotten a bit better in 8 years
7:24 Yeah! You remember when Luthor stole 40 pies? That's four tens of pies! And that was terrible!
Cakes actually
+Jake Bryant (The Rouge Owl) then it is even worse, usless it was hostes fruit pies
Now its canon to his story and i dont know if its suprising or down right idiotic.
I almost feel like you should read the Spider-Woman Pregnancy arc after this - just to compare and contrast how a pregnancy arc should be done.
smashmaster521 Fair enough.
You could notice right away everyone involved in spider woman had a child recently,even for a person with no children like it was so sweet and relatable... which is hilarious when the birth was in alien hospital being invaded haha and the final origin of the baby was awesome too,she wanted one,she got one and that's the end of that,which makes sense given her life
I'm so glad the cinematic adaptation of Captain Marvel won't reference this piece of s*#% in any way, shape or form! THIS COMIC SUCKS!!
This is a worse love story than Twilight. Let's all take a moment to let that sink in.
at least the relationship in twilight was ACTUALLY consentual and didn't involve weird technical incest
It's funny how in this day and age even the most casual fan is aware of who the hell Vision is
The worse comic he's ever reviewed... (Aside from Holy Terror)
Oh boy, here we go.
7:52 Really, over apple pies? There had to be a better reason better than that. Now if those bastards had stolen a Hostess fruit pie...
SOMEONE STOLE A HOSTESS FRUIT PIE?!?! WHERE IS HE?!? LEMME AT'EM!!
+julianarwen I stole the hostess fruit pie! Once i steal every stock of hostess fruit pies, i shall rule the world!!! 🌏
+smashmaster521 at least he didn't steal 40 cakes when no one was looking
@@mikeburnsy6492 My God, 40 cakes!! Thats as many as 4 10s!! How terrible!! 😱
4:23 Donald Blake: this isn’t normal labor this is....
Advanced labor
10:49 The best way to describe George Perez. RIP to the master.
#AgreedWithYou
I actually had a better version of this story in mind.
It's set in the continuity of the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon (I love that show). Events play out like normal except for one big difference: The Avengers are appalled with Marcus over what he did. Iron Man in particular is disgusted.
Marcus: You have a reputation as a playboy. Who are you to judge me?
Tony: The difference is, all the women I slept with? They consented!
Wasp is trying to defuse the situation by planning baby showers and picking out names for the baby, but Carol isn't having any of it.
Wasp: I'm sorry. I'm just trying to make you feel better.
Carol: I know. But this is a lot to take in. If you really want to help, maybe you can give me some space.
Wasp: Okay. Holler if you need anything.
Carol: I will. Oh, and Janet?
Wasp: Yes?
Carol: Thank you.
Wasp: ...You're welcome.
Marcus is prepared to go back to Limbo, but Ms. Marvel, like in the comic, falls in love with her rapist, and is prepared to go back with him. Tony is desperate to stop her.
Tony: Are you nuts?! Don't you remember what he did to you?!
Carol: He's a lonely man, who needs someone to love. I can be that someone.
Tony: Oh, no you don't!
Tony flies off after her, followed by Captain America, Thor, Black Panther, and Wasp, with Hawkeye shooting arrows at the "happy couple". But they're too late. Carol and Marcus are gone, with only her mask left behind.
Tony: ...
Steve: Tony?
Tony: ...
T'Challa: Stark, say something.
Tony: ...We're getting her back.
Steve: Tony?
Tony: T'Challa, meet me in the lab. Get as much Wakandan tech as you can.
Thor: Friend Stark, what are you saying?
Tony: I'll call Pepper. Have her print up some schematics on wormhole generators.
Steve: Tony--
Tony: We'll call every genius we know. Hank, Reed, hell, Doom if we need to.
Steve: TONY!
Tony: WHAT?!?!
Steve: What are you doing?
Tony: We're going to find a way into Marcus' dimension. I don't care how long it takes.
Wasp: I want to help.
Tony: Do you have a degree in astrophysics?
Wasp: No?
Tony: Robotics?
Wasp: No.
Tony: Theoretical Science?
Wasp: No.
Tony: Then I can't imagine you can be much help.
Wasp: There's gotta be something I can do.
T'Challa: With all due respect, Ms. Van Dyne, the best way for you to help is to let us do our job.
Tony: Jan, we'll find her. And we'll put the son of a bitch who did this to her away.
Wasp: ...Okay. Good luck.
Tony: C'mon, Felix. Let's get to work. Cap, you're in charge of the team until we're done.
Steve: All right. Good luck.
Tony: Hey, we're the two most brilliant minds on the planet. We'll figure it out.
T'Challa: (I should introduce you to my sister some time).
And they go to work, setting the stage for the journey into Limbo to save Ms. Marvel from the son of Immortus.
EDIT: It wasn't until after I wrote this that I wrote two instances of Wasp feeling useless about helping her friend. Carol is someone very dear to Janet and she can't do anything to help her. She can't ease the pain of pregnancy and she can't help get her out of Limbo. I can have a moment where she finally talks about this with the others reassuring here that she is a big asset to the team, but she's not convinced. When they finally get to Limbo, it'll be Wasp's time to shine.
Sounds too mature for a kids cartoon but better than that shit I just saw
@@aozorahaou2643 Yeah, rape is a heavy topic to talk about on a kids show, but you gotta admit it's better than what we got.
@@SSJWolverine I wouldn't mind if it was a mature animated Marvel movie remember back in the day in the 2000s Marvel made mature animated movies
@@aozorahaou2643 I would love a revival of Earth's Mightiest Heroes, but let's be real. This is NOT the story they should adapt.
SSJWolverine Agreed. Destroy that comic with infinite amount of fire.
"The screaming, the juices, the pooping, etc." -Golden Corral's new slogan.
OH! This is going to be fun and HORRIBLE! (Poor Carol)
35:03 I'm right there with you Dr. Cox
Wow. The fact that this comic exists and was published is absolutely amazing.
WHERE WAS THE COMICS CODE AUTHORITY!!!??? How could they have approved of THIS!!
Trey Urbach marvel long left CCA after they refuse to greenlit a anti drug PSA spider man comic marvel was paid by the US government to make
@@jetheotaku the CCA mark is on the cover at 5:47
Yep, there it is
They’d become more loose during this decade.
They where basically irrelevant by then
What is it with comic book writers and not understanding that sex without consent IS RAPE!!
Pretty sure Jim Shooter was celebrating "bring your booze to work" day when he let this pile of horribly offensive shit slip past his attention
+ColeVecsion He openly admitted on his blog that this comic was absolute garbage, and has no idea how it got approved. Still though, he takes responsibility for it.
yes, we all watched the video
+Naruto85RasenShuriken Exactly. When you're drunk, things get past you, you make terrible decisions, and you later forget most of it.
Sadly, I think the writers thought that referring to it as "subtle manipulation" meant it wouldn't be thought of as rape. I guess being "subtle" was meant to imply that Carol had genuine feelings and Marcus just made them stronger. Of course, that's still rape, but that's the only reasoning I can think of for how something like this could have been cleared.
It was already a bad sign when you started the review facepalming, Linkara, but this...this is disgusting. How could they dedicate 200 issues with a story like THIS? ...Words fail me, and I can only reiterate what you yourself put out. From no one giving a damn about Miss Marvel's feelings about the whole affair, to Beast acting like a complete goofball (let's not even discuss him wanting to be a 'teddy bear' for the baby), to Marcus and everything associated with him and his history...
As much as a story like this is a good example of how NOT to write a story, it also makes one wish Neuralizers or Memory Charms were real, so that we'd never have to remember that drek like this ever existed...
+TPrower I know, right?! and to quote the character of Dad from "Dexter's Laboratory" I've seen a lot of horrible things in my, but this. This is just.....*siiiiiiiiiick!!!!* :(
TPrower Jesus Christ. Whoever made that comic is sick. Sick in the head. I think that guy needs brain explosion or something.
To bad it's all fiction too.
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it
@@justinesun7270 Don’t worry, practically everyone involved in making this comic all agree they were idiots and this comic is the single worst thing they’ve ever written.
And then Avengers Annual #10 completely course corrected this abomination in an oddly beautiful and satisfying moment
MARVEL: Look we gave her her own movie, promoted her to Captain Marvel, and Earth's Mightiest Hero HOW MANY MORE WAYS CAN WE SAY WE'RE SORRY ABOUT THIS ISSUE????
But giving her a movie, and STEALING the name Captain Marvel form DC, only made everyone hate her more.
Chuck Lee You do know that Carol wasn’t the first Marvel comics version of Capt. Marvel right?
@@ktg619 Yeah. I know. That's why is said she stole the name.
Chuck Lee Sure... I’ll except your definition of stealing if you also accept that Erik masterson “stole” the identity of Thor in the 90s.
If Carol hand hurled Marcus into the nearest binary star system as fast as she could, this comic would be exponentially better. It'll still be crap, but it would be less crappy crap.
I agree the comic would go from F minus to D minus with your idea included in the story.
To be fair, with all miss marvels powers her not feeling pain or struggling during child birth kinda makes sense. The rest is a total wtf mess of a comic
Linkara looked forward to Carol Danvers being introduced into the MCU...Got his wish five years later. :)
Well that was disturbing.
well,that was an understatement.
Eamonn Deane 50 Shades...
fun fact, Avengers Annual #10 is also the first appearance of Rogue of the X-Men
I love that Phelous gets credited like Great Continuity is a production company lol
And to think, someone thought THIS was better than The Last Jedi...
Turns out they e-mailed me later admitting they were not serious and were sorry about doing so.
@@AT4W Well, at least they apologized.
This could work if everyone but Captain America and Ms. Marvel (and those robots) were acting weird and the two were trying to figure out what was happening while Ms. Marvel started getting more and more pregnant as the day went on until givng birth and having the baby be some eldritch abomination that manipulated the personalities of those who have come in contact with the host mother apart from the host mother. Come up with some stupid explanation for why Captain America isn't affected (maybe the super soldier serum counteracts with the pheromones of the alien) and have the unaffected destroy the now-birthed creature. The other heroes slowly turn to normal and they send the alien carcass to some lab and that's the end of the story.
Admittedly, science fiction's not a genre I'm overly familiar with, but I have never seen the "rapidly growing child from a mysterious pregnancy concept" done in a way that wasn't contrived and/or gross.
The only way I could see it possibly working is if it's intentionally played for horror, either by showing how such a terrifying ordeal would affect the mother or how it affects the child.. Like maybe the kid has the lifespan of a mayfly and is going through some kind of existential crisis.
Comparing Avengers #200's depiction of pregnancy and motherhood to the 2017 Spiderwoman "Motherhood" storyline is like night and day. There was a whole lot of mystery around who the father of Jessica Drew's child was, but it was later revealed to be a misdirect and that Jessica *chose* to become a mom through artificial insemination.
She even continues to do crimefighting while pregnant (which is admittedly kind of risky, but that's an argument for another day). Then, once her son is born, a recurring theme in her book is about being a superhero while getting accustomed to life as a single mother. And even when her kid starts developing spider abilities, he still ages at a normal rate which adds another fun element because, as The Incredibles has proven, taking care of a baby with superpowers is enough to run anybody ragged.
Avengers #200 wasn't interested in exploring Carol Danver's psychology or taking her character in a new direction. It didn't have anything to say about motherhood. Carol was just a plot device for an utter failure of a milestone comic that should have been scrapped the millisecond after the initial pitch meeting.
Anyone still mad at the Captain Marvel movie can take solace in the fact that at least it wasn't THIS.
...or Civil War II, but that's a story for another day.
This is WORST than anything I’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen the absolutely terrible maximum ride film.
Linkara, you are a SAINT for dealing with this stupidity of a comic
So, which would be the more terrible character assassination for Carol?
This story, or Civil War 2?
Why choose?
allowable man
For sake of curiosity.
This one. At least Civil War 2 didn't have Carol RAPED by a douchebag to give birth to himself.
What happened in Civil War 2?
@@GabyGeorge1996 she tried to enslave a child who could see the future and then arrested Miles Morales while he was having a mental breakdown over being destined to kill captain America
I can't believe that someone said this godawful comic is better than The Last Jedi! No The Last Jedi is seen as a masterpiece compared to this shlock!
Wait, WHAT?!
I hated the Last Jedi, but the Last Jedi wasn't INSULTING. Luke was out of character...PART of the time. In this? EVERYONE is out of character during the ENTIRE book. And the creepy guy in the Last Jedi is humiliated and rejected, rather than everyone going "aw poor baby" and being totally okay with him raping her.
I just realized.
In this comic, Marcus was _accidentally_ written as an abuser because he uses the mind-altering substances BEFORE asking permission
By contrast, in the Captain Marvel movie, Yon-Rogg is _deliberately_ written as an abuser in the way he gaslights and negs people under his command
Nice to see things coming around the bend
TARINunit9 Well....Yon didn’t do those things, the Kree did. He was sent to watch over her plus he’s genuinely honest and nice.
@@fulcrum6760 No man, Yon is a controlling dick who loves the feeling of how much Vers "owes" him. It's deliberately subtle and downplayed, because not the same kind of cartoonish space nazi Ronan is, but it's still there
TARINunit9 At least Yon wasn’t a rapist like Markus. He actually cares for Vers even in the deleted scenes showing he’s in conflict.
Oh yeah, this one is a must rewatch
Rogue and Ms Marvel is one of the best tragic stories ever written as a fall from grace return to prominence stories .
Why did the Comics Code Authority put their stamp of approval on this?!
Cause they assume using a machine to make a woman gave sex isn't rape? Even tho it is rape. The CCA thought comic readers were stupid.
If Tony was feeling like a parent or honorary uncle (which would be consistently out of character with the rest of the team this issue) I could see him encouraging the tinkering. That said, everyone is still being an idiot here.
(Sigh)... True story, I actually read this comic once upon a time. When the part came where Captain American and Iron Man confronted Marcus (The little brat) over what he was doing, I stopped reading. Not because I knew what to expect (Although it's a perfectly good reason NOT to read Avengers 200) but rather, because of the Avengers' attuite during all this. "Let him tinker", I'm inclined to believe that Tony's alcoholism started much earlier than in "Demon in a Bottle".
What in the world is this story?!! Omg. Like it’s a horror story. It’s the most disturbing storyline from a comic book I’ve ever seen. They not only did Capt. Marvel dirty in every possible way but what the hell is all the incestuous plotline? I don’t think even Game of Thrones felt this icky. Who was even the audience for this? Wow I’m like shocked this story got published. 🥴
I just read this for the first time a few weeks ago. It's truly repulsive media. There's "so bad it's good" media, and then there's this.... so bad it will never, ever be good.
Repulsive is a good word to describe Avengers 200.
So...
are we gonna bring out the "She is my mother, she is my lover" clip?
This comic hits me personally. In a play I was in, my character, while on a retreat, decided to slip a roofoe in my best friend's drink because I was in love with her and she was a lesbian. I carried her away from the party when she started getting loopy and put her to bed. I took the advantage and had sex with her. The next morning, she remembered nothing and I was left feeling both happy and guilty. Also, my enemy followed us and took pictures of the incident, using them to blackmail me (All of this was conveyed through photos that didn't actually show anything, just staged). When they finally were revealed, I was in such a dark place already that I decided I couldn't live with myself anymore, taking my own life.
Even doing the staged photos made me feel uncomfortable. I cried onstage because of how utterly terrible my character's actions were and even knew in character that everyone who saw them had a right to be pissed at me.
This comic shows not only does altering minds work, but he doesn't feel ANY REMORSE FOR IT. He just explains it like, "of course that's what I had to do." No one brings up the moral question, and he's more concerned with him becoming a villain than how terrible it was that he BRAINWASHED HIS "LOVE." WTF? LIKE WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?!
Everything you have said is very true. Out of curiosity, what play was it?
@@matthewmckee3762 it's really hard to explain. Basically we adapted Julius Caesar, but instead of actual Roman warfare, the things that killed people were scandals that characters couldn't escape from
@@rudevoices9204 Ah, an original independent production. Neat!
Dear god. That comic... Who came up with that idea? How such an idea found it's way to be put on paper?
At least with Holy Terror, I have kind of an idea on the how and the why it came to be (it's all in the "who" in this case). With this one, I absolutely have no idea.
I have a feeling the good moments and lines, such as Ms Marvel being actively horrified over giving birth to a weird apparent demon child and beratting people for acting like it's not a big deal, were put in by Perez.
Perez wrote the best Wonder Woman stories so I wouldn't be surprised if he put those lines in the story.
@@RenaldyCalixte Poor Perez was trying to fix a sinking ship, yet like Linkara said even his powers of multiplying awesomeness don’t really work when NOTHING in this comic is “awesome”
@@NoahDaArk That makes sense
6:34 Ah, the days when you had to explain to people who The Vision was lmao
The computer that impregnated someone... that was the plot of a movie, if I remember will...
+Gregory House The movie was Demon Seed.
Someone should get Phelous to review it.
Linkara, I just want say your awesome man. I’ve been watching you for over a decade, during entirety of high school. See I have this wild dream, one which many people think delusional, and I should surrender. Then I see you. Doing what you love. Doing it for over a decade. It incredible. Just incredible. Kept telling myself if he willing work that hard why can’t I? It why I work hard at my artwork, save money, and continue to improve.
Your my hero Linkara.
No.1 goes to Superman (the Christopher Reeves Superman), but your definitively in my top five heroes.
Its nice to see Carol becoming a bigger star in marvel comics nowadays, finally getting that movie for in her new captain marvel name, hope for the best and be nothing like this 200th issue horror.
That might change due to the second marvel civil war coming this June
Brandon Lyon It’s either going to be a disaster of epic proportions or genuinely awesome.
@@ripleyjlawman.3162 Whelp
You got your answer
EDIT:Sorry I thought you were talking about civil war 2
Dear Lord I so hope this crap doesn't happen to Kamala.
Well she was I think almost turned into slavery to the Chilean Army by Puppetmaster...although in the book they only stated it was for military purposes....the fact that they were all young females sends up the CREEP FLAG
Ever get the feeling that some writers just hate heroines?
Tareltonlives Frank Miller, Mark Millar, Gerry Conway, Jim Shooter, Todd McFarlane. Maybe Allen Moore.
This particular writer however must love Heroin.
Paul Phoenix Garth Ennis.
Tareltonlives Yes.
Women in Fridges
They turned the smartest and most agile of the X-Men into a laughingstock.
If Carol feels no pain at all, what was Cover-Thor so excited about making this a scary form of LABOUR? Come quick, this is weirdly harmless? Uhh idgi...
that this story managed to get editorial approval baffles me. I mean, we see all these times editors have stepped in making a comic worse, you'd think that once, just once, they'd step in and stop something this bad from ever reaching the shelves.