Patrick gets upset over one man's brutal murder by arson, and reveals his own plans for what he'll do if he gets his hands on the man who slaughtered his family
Throughout the series, Patrick openly shows indifference to the law, the powerful and the petty tyrants. But, he is basically an honest man. He couches the truth carefully within jokes and banter. But when he lies, it's open to the world to see. Beautiful writing, graceful acting. One of the best shows ever...
Actually nah. He is anything BUT an honest man. Something that Cho mentioned, the death of his family made him a better man, in a sense it humbled him. He was sneaky, manipulative, exploitative, basically a consciousness con man. That’s why very few people respected him until they interacted with him and realized how smart he was. Until then, his reputation was that of a con man, which he was. The only person throughout he seemed to show some loyalty from the beginning, was Lisbon. Not only because she took him in when nobody did, but also because he could tell she’s an honest person with no ulterior motive, his exact opposite.
Graceful acting? This show was an open stage for garbage talent to come on and play guest characters. It's like they had a $1000 budget for each new actor for each episode. Maybe 2 times per season they had actual decent guest stars. It really takes away from the great performances done by Baker and Tunney on a regular basis.
"He's our bait, our tethered goat." "And too bad if the bait gets killed?" "Well, yeah that's why you use goats instead of babies or vigrins." the sincereity that he said that with made me laugh!
Even with the guy he first thought was Red John, he just got the confirmation he needed and shot him. Then sat down, drank some tea and surrendered. He even made sure to leave a tip for the waitress.
No he didn’t. He didn’t realize it til afterwards when he found out someone had taken Not Red Johns gun and phone. I actually just rewatched that episode last week
As the series progressed, Jane became a much nicer guy particularly after he killed Red John. It seemed that the weight of the world was lifted from his shoulders. You could tell that he really loved Lisbon and cared deeply about Abbott, Cho, Rigsby, Van Pelt and even the more minor characters like Wiley & Vega. I doubt the psychic Jane could have felt much at all. Jane wasn't a psychopath but was definitely a sociopath due to his upbringing and was likely deeply unpleasant until his wife and his child were murdered. Cho was right - his wife's death made him a much nicer person. Jane was a really sweet guy at times in Seasons 6 and 7 - it was great to watch his development as a character. Great TV Series. I just wished they could have done a tie in with Lie to Me. Seeing Jane and Lightman working together would have been awesome.
+Alex J He wasn't a sociopath. A fake psychic, tricking and ripping people off, yeah. Deeply affected by his family's death and still traumatised years after, looking for revenge, sure. But definitely not a sociopath.
By book definition, he was. Not psychopath, but a sociopath, learned on purpose and changed into by murder of his family. All to block out his emotions and the only one target on mind, Red John. However he does learn to forgo those behaviours. =]
Mike Hamilton As someone who studied psychology, Jane definitely showed signs of sociopathy, which I think is completely understandable considering his life's tragic journey. However, he also had an incredible understanding of people, which could also be attributed to his upbringing and would have been an important tool for him to protect and sustain himself in a true hard-knock life. All-in-all, he was an amazing character, played amazingly well with boundless evolution and depth.
this is one of the episodes that I'm actually afraid of Jane. he always smiles, jokes around and acts like he doesn't care but he's actually observing and calculating you.
I love the fact that underneath the playullness ans aloofness of patrick there was a deep dark desire for revenge.A bloodlust.Which is totaly understanble
Jane wasn't being cold. He was being honest. Justice isn't always synonymous with law. Law is concrete but justice is more abstract sometimes. And for people like Machado and Red John, law isn't always adequate when it comes to justice.
The greatest example of this are the Nuremberg trials. They literally had to break the _lex retro non agit_ rule, otherwise there would've been no basis for convicting the German officers.
@@Xoruam The Nuremberg trials looking back were mostly winners putting the loosers to trial for loosing the war. Its really a slippery slope the US opened there and the blatant hypocrisy regarding their own affairs. For lots of the crimes there was an allied equivalent that wasnt put to trial or huge crimes f.e. by Stalin that no one gave a fuck about. How they decided the judges, what witnesses to hear and whom not had nothing to do with a real legal process. Not that I disagree with putting down some of them but to paint this as a legitimate trial was a farce from the start and political agenda first. If you go by that in most US wars pre ww2 and during the us military would have been stood trial at the end. Read up on Smedley Butler f.e writing about it.
"If you try and do violence to him, I will stop you" That failed! "If you succeed in doing violence to him, I will arrest you." No you didn't. You ended up dating the guy!! Lol
+Vin KK Lisbon hasn't reached her limit yet when she says that. I think the show implies that everyone has a limit towards holding themselves back from violent revenge.
Vin KK I just finished the whole series. I think it's impressive that Jane would talk abt revenge in a matter-of-fact way. Usually characters would get emotional or agitated. Jane also has a lot of patience unless he gets an obvious lead to Red John.
Can you believe there are people who think Robin Tunney wasn't a good actress? This show wouldn't be anywhere close to perfection if Simon Baker didn't have an equal weight partner next to him
This is a very powerful scene. Poor Patrick's bitterness is eating him up, but because of his experience, he is determined that justice is served to people who have been wronged, just like he has been. I love Simon Baker. He is an absolutely brilliant actor.
Just like the entire show promised much, much more about Red John than what actually happened. Beautiful clues and red herrings which were never explained, resulting in a total sellout with the Red John reveal. Worse than "Lost" - the writers had no clue how to solve their own clues and didn't have the honesty to admit this.
@@cscoetzee Thats because the writers did not know who Red John was back then. I feel like if they created the story already knowning who they were gonna make Red John, they could've done way more with it
What I liked in particular were cases where he used his wealth to help. One episode where a woman was working in a casino and stealing money, they questioned her, but she was not their killer and she was stealing money to pay for the care of her sick mother. The last minute of the show Patrick donates money he won at the casino to help the woman pay her hospital bills. I remember other cases where he did nice things for other people involved in cases just to help them out. It seemed nice because after they left the story you sort of forgot about them, but it was nice that his character did something to help instead of forgetting them too.
Not so dangerous. Red John could have killed him 100 times. And without the team, he is so dumb in his relations to people that he could get himself killed several times a week.
I think the show did a pretty good job of impressing upon the viewers the importance of upholding justice as a personal moral imperative, rather than merely a perfunctory legal duty. In other words, by the end of Red John's reign of terror, it became clear he had corrupted parts of every organized justice/social system in the state and a little outside. There were even corrupt officials who the team put away that didn't work for Red John. CBI, FBI, local police, Homeland security, social workers, news reporters, state attorneys, anti-human trafficking organizations etc--they all had members who were evil, weak, and loathesome. Jane was motivated by personal reasons, but in his willingness to bend legal boundaries and thwart procedural norms, he became a more faithful servant of true justice than most of his peers were capable of when it came to Red John. What's more is Patrick was able to uncover and bond with his upright colleagues' belief in that moral pliability, no matter how straight-laced they typically were: Bosco killed someone evil and Lisbon helped him cover it up, Hightower faked a hostage situation and went on the run when framed rather than fight in court, Abbott shot a drug cartel member in cold blood, and LaRoche cut the tongue out of his mother's rapist and kept it in a Tupperware container. Even Cho, Rigsby, and Van Pelt knew when they needed to supersede the rules to get real justice. It's a bit unusual for a procedural to stick by this principle so overtly, but I respect them for it even in moments I may still disagree. Justice and legality shouldn't ever be opposed to one another, but this is earth, and we are human, and humans are flawed.
Agreed on all points. Just want to point out, as you know I'm sure, this is fiction. In real life people have biases, selfish motives, unchecked personal flaws, blind spots, and just imperfect info like fog of war. Law enforcement taking the law into their own hands is often dangerous even deadly to the people they're supposed to serve
Rigsby killed the guy responsible for his father's death and Jane helped pull it off in a legal way, Cho was always ready to bend or break the rules to help the team
Patrick can be cold but this? NO. This is his truth and his justice. Why has he been wanting to kill? Now if Jane was all eh who cares about revenge people would go WtF..
@@Nomadcreations No. Justice is just. Vengeance can be either just or unjust because humans are subjective about everything. So you never know which one you're getting if it is vengeance.
@@joehamlet7576 Neither with justice. What is justice really? Who defines it? Would smth we call just today, be just in 50 years? Moral and ethics change, and so does justice. And in a world where justice is defined by who leads, you can be sure of 1 thing: There's no such thing as just. Only vengeance in disguise.
@@pedropereira1285 God defines it. The problem with humans is we keep wanting to be God and do His job. Morals and ethics do NOT change, because God does not change. Morals come from the word of God and they do not change. People think they know better than God. We don't. We will stay screwed up until we learn that. Which, of course, we never will because we have too much pride and arrogance.
It was more or less this scene that kept my interest in the series. So many movies and series try to redeem the killer or lightly punish them, jane just flat out says I am going to kill this person with my own hands, and then does it.
To bad he didn't do what he said he would. While strangling RJ and watching the life drain out of him, it was too painless. Beggars can't be choosers, I guess.
@@oz_jones I think it was better that way. Jane here in this scene is mostly trying to hammer home how determined he actually is, just to give Lisbon a heads up, but butchery was Red John's forte, not Jane's. Red John would slither in darkness, paralyze the victim and kill them with punctures--he was like a snake. Jane worked like a mongoose: circle tirelessly, taunt the prey into expending its energy on striking out, and then when the serpent is exhausted, go for the throat. The pain is in the fall of power and fear of death. I loved it.
As someone who has studied psychology, Jane definitely showed signs of sociopathy, which I think is completely understandable considering his life's tragic journey. However, he also had an incredible understanding of people, which could also be attributed to his upbringing and would have been an important tool for him to protect and sustain himself in a true hard-knock life. All-in-all, he was an amazing character, played amazingly well with boundless evolution and depth.
This is not a sociopathic thought, Jane would be a sociopath if he killed Red John for no reason, not for murdering his wife and child; that's his own perception of justice, one non-sociopaths have regardless of whether it's the same as the law's justice.
No I dont think hes a sociopath what he did was purely human. The only thing people might mistake for sociopathic tendency is how emotionally detached he is from his logic, but that is a stretch. Most sociopaths dont even possess that.
Patrick had always insisted that despite working with the law, if they caught Red John, he would kill him himself. He spelled it out to everyone repeatedly, but I don't know if he ever did so as chillingly as he did here. He knows Lisbon and co would have to arrest him, but as far as he's concerned, if Red John is dead by his hand, justice will have been done. No matter how mellowed out or "better" he was being with the team, he never wavered on that..
"Justice, real justice, is personal. And sometimes it needs to be delivered with your own hands." - Sheriff Hood (Banshee) Most people know him as Homelander, though
Marvicle I’ve met a lady in the social scene where I hang out, she has much of the skill set Patrick Jane has, minus the manipulation. She sees things about people, it comes as picture frames in her mind - or so she explained it to me. But it drains her. She can’t control it or shut it off. Often when we were hanging out, she just wants to have a good time but she can’t, and have to leave because her senses are bombarded.
And I like his hair...... And that face he makes when he is smiling, looks like he is uncomfortable doing that.....like contemplating between smiling or not...,..
@Alexander Leblanc not that I can tell, I'm not a doctor. When we 1st met, she said things about me that no one knew about. Life things I was dealing with. Once, we were at a bar, & a guy came up & was being overly aggressive. She said to me she saw a body hovering over him. She was creeped out & I had to chase him off. The next day, I saw his picture on the news, arrested for murder. She said she doesn't see things for everyone, but it does happen often & she just can't handle it sometimes. It gets too much.
Lisbon's giving her party line...she's responsible for both jane and the law, but as time goes on she sees that she isn't responsible for jane, he also matures too, and that instead of being his keeper she cares about him and more importantly he cares about her and that he's going to whatever the hell he wants to and no one can stop him. she also saw how awful to him and all of them red john was and probably by that time didn't care...the guy was just a bad human. but lisbon still wouldve done her duty had she been the one to catch him.
Its interesting to note that when he did eventually catch Red John, he shot and then strangled him to death, not as he says here. Probably several reasons for this: (a) it was in a public place (b) Jane is basically squeamish about blood (c) i think he'd come to realise that killing Red John was the ultimate goal and that it was all too grisly to imitate his method of killing.
Justice is just. Vengeance can be either just or unjust because humans are subjective about everything. So you never know which one you're getting if it is vengeance.
@Sam Lim hmm good point. I thought Jane being such a bright dude he would understand. But i forgot he has emotions that blinded him with vengeance like any normal person would.
@Sam Lim the only complaint i have for this show, even though it's one of my most fav tv shows, is that It should have been much darker and heavier, kind of similiar to the show "dexter". Jane being such a smart person he fails laughably to catch red john multiple times. In front of red john we see he cannot think ahead. And the way he narrowed down the list to find red john was hilarious. Red john as a villain was very very weak. I wish the cat and mouse chase between red john and jane was given more thoughts. Otherwise the show was unlike any. It has the feel of both "sherlock" and "lie to me"
@@torababdullah7952 I liked the fact that, in the end, Red John was not some larger than life charismatic cult leader (ie, Brett Stiles). It played out better that he was actually rather small when you took away his support. It also explained how he was always 5 steps ahead of Jane.
The only difference I can see between justice and vengeance is the person carrying it out. If there is a personal motivation, like your wife and daughter were brutally murdered (the fact that they had the daughter murdered like that was one of the most disturbing parts of the show), then it's vengeance. If you kill someone that has brutally murdered people but you have no personal attachment to those people, it's justice. Ergo, there's no difference.
Jane decided that was right once he had lost people who loved him. In the same way, Lisbon lost someone that loved her to RJ. Really quite poetic, in some way.
She helped Bosco when he killed a criminal so it's something she could've done for Jane even if no one she cared about had died. But then it wasn't just about Boscos death. Even after that, she told him she would stop him. I think what changed her mind the most was seeing Jane being haunted by RJ and how much he and the rest suffered for all those years. And the last blow was the Blake Association. RJ was never going to pay, he wasn't going to stop killing and leave them alone unless he was killed.
Great alternative ending in my opinion if Lisbon had arrested Jane after killing Red John. Especially if their relationship were already deeper and more romanticly involved with each other. I'm happier with the way the series ended though !
He tricked her with mentalism. He told her to use more force when she talks, but it was really so that he could use those gestures and commanding voice to plant a "mental seed" that he is in fact in control.
Well he himself said that in the season 2 premiere. when the Red John was given to another team he abruptly quit seeing no more reason to be there. he said he'd stick around to see the end of the case they were on and admitted to Lisbon he has nowhere else to go
@@andreblomberg67 doesnt mean he can go above the law. Many people deserve to die in some people's eyes. In other people's eyes they are good people. Who are you to make that judgement? Are you ready to take responsibility for these actions? Not really, are ya.
@@iare19 In other people’s eyes they are good. These other people are crazy, twisted, damaged or evil. Like in these series is shown. In season 2 that crazy, damaged lady who killed her colleagues because Red John told her to. She too thought the the serial killer, rapist is the good person. That he is doing good things. So I think that if you’re not a psychopath or a damaged person Or evil, damaged person you know that someone who is doing the things that serial killers do isn’t a good person and really deserves punishment.
"You can't talk to me like that, I have rights." Please explain to me what right you have that says you can't be called "miserable son of a bitch." There's no correlation there.
The difference is justice is inclined towards morality and well being of every living being which logically makes it a reasonable choice on the other hand vengeance is more destructive and based on eye for an eye perspective.
Justice is just. Vengeance can be either just or unjust because humans are subjective about everything. So you never know which one you're getting if it is vengeance.
Vengeance is a form of justice when proportionate, but when disproportionate or otherwise unreasonable, such as when collateral damage is too high, it is unjust. Reimbursement is another form of justice - the two concepts really are quite different, although Jane's vengeance is indeed a form of justice in this case.
well i think Patrick doesn't care what happens to him after he kills Red John.... Patrick only cares about catching Red John and killing him so he can get revenge for what Red John did to his family
I realise what I hated about the video quality of the early seasons. The lighting was too dark and the camera was up in everyones face. Those extreme close ups should only really be used for dramatic scenes not the casual scene.
it was really disappointing when jane strangled red john to death and red john claimed to have "real psychic powers" instead of jane gutting him like a fish
Well, it goes to show you that Patrick Jane was indeed serious for he forfilled his desire to end Red John's life. Good for him!! Awesome episode, 'Strawberries and Cream', the finale to season 3!! I think we viewers were all rooting for Jane to follow through with his revenge!! Can't wait for season 4 when we see Patrick Jane in his day in court!
I do enjoy the playfulness of Patrick but sometimes he can be such an asshole. Like the time he bantered with a father whose son was murdered by continuing to name other organs when the father mentioned that his son had the guts and hearts (S2 EP20). Or when that one time Patrick destroyed a code-breaking device for encryption and decryption of sensitive data that was worth millions which upset the person who was working to have to have the device (S2 EP21). I feel like he goes all out to offend every one, sometimes to show his wit and that he's better than every one else and sometimes just for the heck of it.
That code breaking device was destroyed bcoz he thought it could be dangerous if it falls in the wrong hand. He was bad when mentioned other organs but maybe he sensed something was not right with the father whose son just died. He was proven right in the end. He was so sweet the following scene with the little girl teasing her and Lisbon. Sometimes he does outrageous things to provoke people.
It isn't just that. Sometimes he's intentionally cold and insensitive because he wants to provoke a reaction in someone he thinks is guilty, especially if they're prone to emotional manipulation. Though he can overdo it sometimes, and unleash his brutal sense of wit on those undeserving of its impact.
Gram T: you are seeing Jane accurately. the Patrick Jane character, albeit wonderfully talented, is really not a good person, although his actions do often have significant benefits for other people. ultimately, for Jane, those benefits are, probably, incidental. Jane accomplishes what he does as part of his long game to catch Red John, as well as out of a motivation to show other people that he is smarter, etc. Simon Baker does play the character, at times, as somewhat altruistic and/or genuinely likable. this, no doubt, is to make the character a hero for the audience to root for. the writers may have wanted Baker to play Jane that way, too. in reality, however, those things may be somewhat foreign to Jane's nature. Jane is different from many other people. he is not somewhat different or even quite a bit different. he is, as a psychopath, A LOT different, at least in how he views the world and himself. hence, the need for a constant disguise when around others who see such things differently... i can give some support for this assertion about him always wearing a disguise... do you remember the scene where Cho and him go undercover in a different episode involving the team trying to prevent a crime (murdering the mayor/mass shooting)? in that episode, Cho asks Jane why he isn't wearing a disguise, sort of giving Jane a hard time about it. Jane then repeats the word, "disguise" to himself quietly, in a sort of ironic, amused way. anyway, i, personally, don't sympathize too much with people who are not attached to the truth, although i am fascinated by the people who can pull off such deceit. what i like about Jane is his willingness/ability to think for himself (not conventional), the lesson learned from him that if you are clever enough (unfortunately, i often am not) there may be a solution to just about any problem and how he can amusingly (for the audience) put people in "their place". sorry if i ran on here with my opinions...
Throughout the series, Patrick openly shows indifference to the law, the powerful and the petty tyrants. But, he is basically an honest man. He couches the truth carefully within jokes and banter. But when he lies, it's open to the world to see. Beautiful writing, graceful acting. One of the best shows ever...
the best show ever
Actually nah. He is anything BUT an honest man. Something that Cho mentioned, the death of his family made him a better man, in a sense it humbled him. He was sneaky, manipulative, exploitative, basically a consciousness con man. That’s why very few people respected him until they interacted with him and realized how smart he was. Until then, his reputation was that of a con man, which he was. The only person throughout he seemed to show some loyalty from the beginning, was Lisbon. Not only because she took him in when nobody did, but also because he could tell she’s an honest person with no ulterior motive, his exact opposite.
Graceful acting? This show was an open stage for garbage talent to come on and play guest characters. It's like they had a $1000 budget for each new actor for each episode. Maybe 2 times per season they had actual decent guest stars. It really takes away from the great performances done by Baker and Tunney on a regular basis.
chaotic good
So true Well put my friend😊
"Not if I'm still breathing." is the most truthful line Jane ever said in this series.
he meant every letter of those words.
that what i love about this show and jane character ... because he only there for the justice not the law.
"He's our bait, our tethered goat."
"And too bad if the bait gets killed?"
"Well, yeah that's why you use goats instead of babies or vigrins."
the sincereity that he said that with made me laugh!
It is true; what he said
@@user-zs5tp9zi6n Damn Right!
Lisbon: "We're officers of the law."
Also Lisbon: "I'm putting Machado in harm's way just to teach you a lesson."
😂😂
She thought he was bluffing. She figured that if something did happen, Jane would step in to help.
@@TimedRevolver bless her heart, she didnt know better yet
Even with the guy he first thought was Red John, he just got the confirmation he needed and shot him. Then sat down, drank some tea and surrendered. He even made sure to leave a tip for the waitress.
He knew that's not red john by the time he was shooting him though.
No he didn’t. He didn’t realize it til afterwards when he found out someone had taken Not Red Johns gun and phone. I actually just rewatched that episode last week
that was red john LOL - there is no other red john
@@randomguyontheinternet69 You have three more seasons' worth of episodes and lore to watch, my friend...
@@randomguyontheinternet69 the real red John's death was so satisfying.
As the series progressed, Jane became a much nicer guy particularly after he killed Red John. It seemed that the weight of the world was lifted from his shoulders. You could tell that he really loved Lisbon and cared deeply about Abbott, Cho, Rigsby, Van Pelt and even the more minor characters like Wiley & Vega. I doubt the psychic Jane could have felt much at all.
Jane wasn't a psychopath but was definitely a sociopath due to his upbringing and was likely deeply unpleasant until his wife and his child were murdered. Cho was right - his wife's death made him a much nicer person.
Jane was a really sweet guy at times in Seasons 6 and 7 - it was great to watch his development as a character.
Great TV Series. I just wished they could have done a tie in with Lie to Me. Seeing Jane and Lightman working together would have been awesome.
+Alex J Jane and Lightman together would be gorgeous to watch... Great characters
+Alex J
He wasn't a sociopath. A fake psychic, tricking and ripping people off, yeah. Deeply affected by his family's death and still traumatised years after, looking for revenge, sure. But definitely not a sociopath.
By book definition, he was. Not psychopath, but a sociopath, learned on purpose and changed into by murder of his family. All to block out his emotions and the only one target on mind, Red John. However he does learn to forgo those behaviours. =]
Jorge H. Coelho
Lie to Me was a great show.
Mike Hamilton As someone who studied psychology, Jane definitely showed signs of sociopathy, which I think is completely understandable considering his life's tragic journey. However, he also had an incredible understanding of people, which could also be attributed to his upbringing and would have been an important tool for him to protect and sustain himself in a true hard-knock life. All-in-all, he was an amazing character, played amazingly well with boundless evolution and depth.
this is one of the episodes that I'm actually afraid of Jane. he always smiles, jokes around and acts like he doesn't care but he's actually observing and calculating you.
I love the fact that underneath the playullness ans aloofness of patrick there was a deep dark desire for revenge.A bloodlust.Which is totaly understanble
Jane wasn't being cold. He was being honest. Justice isn't always synonymous with law. Law is concrete but justice is more abstract sometimes. And for people like Machado and Red John, law isn't always adequate when it comes to justice.
The greatest example of this are the Nuremberg trials. They literally had to break the _lex retro non agit_ rule, otherwise there would've been no basis for convicting the German officers.
Then you know nothing about the law. It's justice that it's straight up and law which is bendable.
well at least he dint "
sacrifice" innocent
why do you think the sword of justice exists? for vengeance if the shield doesnt work
@@Xoruam The Nuremberg trials looking back were mostly winners putting the loosers to trial for loosing the war. Its really a slippery slope the US opened there and the blatant hypocrisy regarding their own affairs. For lots of the crimes there was an allied equivalent that wasnt put to trial or huge crimes f.e. by Stalin that no one gave a fuck about. How they decided the judges, what witnesses to hear and whom not had nothing to do with a real legal process. Not that I disagree with putting down some of them but to paint this as a legitimate trial was a farce from the start and political agenda first. If you go by that in most US wars pre ww2 and during the us military would have been stood trial at the end. Read up on Smedley Butler f.e writing about it.
"If you try and do violence to him, I will stop you" That failed!
"If you succeed in doing violence to him, I will arrest you." No you didn't. You ended up dating the guy!! Lol
+Vin KK Lisbon hasn't reached her limit yet when she says that. I think the show implies that everyone has a limit towards holding themselves back from violent revenge.
That's true. Nice way to put it
Vin KK
I just finished the whole series. I think it's impressive that Jane would talk abt revenge in a matter-of-fact way. Usually characters would get emotional or agitated. Jane also has a lot of patience unless he gets an obvious lead to Red John.
No he didnt cut red john open -_-
Fucking spoilers m8
The way Lisbon's expression cracked when he said he's going to cut him open was probably one of the best acted moments in the whole series.
Can you believe there are people who think Robin Tunney wasn't a good actress? This show wouldn't be anywhere close to perfection if Simon Baker didn't have an equal weight partner next to him
Excellent series, great episode. Robin Tunney played Lisbon so well,definitely aces in my book.
She tries not to crack, too. She tries to stay stoic in the face of his resolution, but she comes up short. Great acting.
When and how exactly did she crack?
Cuz I think I may not be seeing it 🤔😅
"that's not justice, it's vengeance"
"What's the difference?"
Patrick Jane has a good point...
Maple Hound There is no difference. “Justice” is defined by a governing body. But, it’s the same as vengeance.
@@Henlarious That's what im saying :P
No he doesn’t
An eye for an eye would leave the world blind.
That's the perfect phrase for this, justice and vengeance is a very different things.
Vengeance is emotional, Justice is rational.
I find that a man who is able to speak that calmly and coldly about his intentions - really means what he says and is not a man to fuck with.
This is a very powerful scene. Poor Patrick's bitterness is eating him up, but because of his experience, he is determined that justice is served to people who have been wronged, just like he has been.
I love Simon Baker. He is an absolutely brilliant actor.
interesting how he says "i understand" it sounds like "i know, but once i´m finished i don´t care anymore"
"I understand..."
'...but it means nothing to me.'
Lovely how neither Jane nor Lisbon, lived up to what they said they would do!
He did kill him slowly
Just like the entire show promised much, much more about Red John than what actually happened. Beautiful clues and red herrings which were never explained, resulting in a total sellout with the Red John reveal. Worse than "Lost" - the writers had no clue how to solve their own clues and didn't have the honesty to admit this.
@@cscoetzee Thats because the writers did not know who Red John was back then. I feel like if they created the story already knowning who they were gonna make Red John, they could've done way more with it
Moments like the scene at the end made this show special. It was on a whole other level that other crime dramas only dream of reaching.
What I liked in particular were cases where he used his wealth to help. One episode where a woman was working in a casino and stealing money, they questioned her, but she was not their killer and she was stealing money to pay for the care of her sick mother. The last minute of the show Patrick donates money he won at the casino to help the woman pay her hospital bills. I remember other cases where he did nice things for other people involved in cases just to help them out. It seemed nice because after they left the story you sort of forgot about them, but it was nice that his character did something to help instead of forgetting them too.
I love the jewelry scenes with the team in that episode. Especially….
I’m keeping it!
Me too.
That’s my boys!
What i love about Patrick is he appeared so harmless but he was a dangerous man.
Unless you were Red John you were not in danger of getting punched or hit or kicked...he'd find something far worse to do to you
Not so dangerous. Red John could have killed him 100 times. And without the team, he is so dumb in his relations to people that he could get himself killed several times a week.
3:32 Lisbon realizes she is dealing with the REAL Patrick Jane.
3:32
3:16 BEST PART OF THIS WHOLE SCENE
iamnotinvolved To say the least, that caught me off guard...
Stone Cold Steve Austin , how poetic 😜
He's not cold basterd, he's just rational guy who lives in reality.
"I know what revenge costs, it's worth the price".
I think the show did a pretty good job of impressing upon the viewers the importance of upholding justice as a personal moral imperative, rather than merely a perfunctory legal duty.
In other words, by the end of Red John's reign of terror, it became clear he had corrupted parts of every organized justice/social system in the state and a little outside. There were even corrupt officials who the team put away that didn't work for Red John. CBI, FBI, local police, Homeland security, social workers, news reporters, state attorneys, anti-human trafficking organizations etc--they all had members who were evil, weak, and loathesome.
Jane was motivated by personal reasons, but in his willingness to bend legal boundaries and thwart procedural norms, he became a more faithful servant of true justice than most of his peers were capable of when it came to Red John. What's more is Patrick was able to uncover and bond with his upright colleagues' belief in that moral pliability, no matter how straight-laced they typically were: Bosco killed someone evil and Lisbon helped him cover it up, Hightower faked a hostage situation and went on the run when framed rather than fight in court, Abbott shot a drug cartel member in cold blood, and LaRoche cut the tongue out of his mother's rapist and kept it in a Tupperware container. Even Cho, Rigsby, and Van Pelt knew when they needed to supersede the rules to get real justice.
It's a bit unusual for a procedural to stick by this principle so overtly, but I respect them for it even in moments I may still disagree. Justice and legality shouldn't ever be opposed to one another, but this is earth, and we are human, and humans are flawed.
Agreed on all points. Just want to point out, as you know I'm sure, this is fiction. In real life people have biases, selfish motives, unchecked personal flaws, blind spots, and just imperfect info like fog of war. Law enforcement taking the law into their own hands is often dangerous even deadly to the people they're supposed to serve
Rigsby killed the guy responsible for his father's death and Jane helped pull it off in a legal way, Cho was always ready to bend or break the rules to help the team
2:22 "And to bad if the bait gets killed?" That line is stuck in my head because of the bloopers XD
Patrick can be cold but this? NO. This is his truth and his justice. Why has he been wanting to kill? Now if Jane was all eh who cares about revenge people would go WtF..
macy grace Agreed. The video should have shown the scene of him burying a suspect alive
Ophelia
She didn’t at all.
excellent scene, poor title choice
I hope he doesn't find me....
he did hahaha
that was fake. This is real
Hitesh Nankani hahahahah
Tiger tiger 😂
Burning bright, in the forests of the night
"That's not justice it's Vengeance"
"What's the difference?"
I'll keep this with me my whole life.
Same
The ONLY Difference Is they Are SPELLED Differently
@@Nomadcreations No. Justice is just. Vengeance can be either just or unjust because humans are subjective about everything. So you never know which one you're getting if it is vengeance.
@@joehamlet7576 Neither with justice. What is justice really? Who defines it? Would smth we call just today, be just in 50 years? Moral and ethics change, and so does justice. And in a world where justice is defined by who leads, you can be sure of 1 thing:
There's no such thing as just. Only vengeance in disguise.
@@pedropereira1285 God defines it. The problem with humans is we keep wanting to be God and do His job. Morals and ethics do NOT change, because God does not change. Morals come from the word of God and they do not change. People think they know better than God. We don't. We will stay screwed up until we learn that. Which, of course, we never will because we have too much pride and arrogance.
It was more or less this scene that kept my interest in the series.
So many movies and series try to redeem the killer or lightly punish them, jane just flat out says I am going to kill this person with my own hands, and then does it.
To bad he didn't do what he said he would. While strangling RJ and watching the life drain out of him, it was too painless.
Beggars can't be choosers, I guess.
@@oz_jones I think it was better that way. Jane here in this scene is mostly trying to hammer home how determined he actually is, just to give Lisbon a heads up, but butchery was Red John's forte, not Jane's. Red John would slither in darkness, paralyze the victim and kill them with punctures--he was like a snake. Jane worked like a mongoose: circle tirelessly, taunt the prey into expending its energy on striking out, and then when the serpent is exhausted, go for the throat. The pain is in the fall of power and fear of death.
I loved it.
It is amazing to me how many people think "I understand" means "I agree and you have convinced me." Not even close.
Ya.. "cold"
Until something like what happened to him happens to you. Then he's your hero and you're shaking his hand and buying him beer.
This scene especially the exchange betwren Jane and Lisbon about the blurred line between justice and vengeance is the opus of the entire program.
As someone who has studied psychology, Jane definitely showed signs of sociopathy, which I think is completely understandable considering his life's tragic journey. However, he also had an incredible understanding of people, which could also be attributed to his upbringing and would have been an important tool for him to protect and sustain himself in a true hard-knock life. All-in-all, he was an amazing character, played amazingly well with boundless evolution and depth.
This is not a sociopathic thought, Jane would be a sociopath if he killed Red John for no reason, not for murdering his wife and child; that's his own perception of justice, one non-sociopaths have regardless of whether it's the same as the law's justice.
As someone who studied psychology you should know that sociopathy is not a recognized term in the current DSM. Please stop using it.
Shut up
No sociopaths do not and cannot emphasize
No I dont think hes a sociopath what he did was purely human. The only thing people might mistake for sociopathic tendency is how emotionally detached he is from his logic, but that is a stretch. Most sociopaths dont even possess that.
Patrick had always insisted that despite working with the law, if they caught Red John, he would kill him himself. He spelled it out to everyone repeatedly, but I don't know if he ever did so as chillingly as he did here. He knows Lisbon and co would have to arrest him, but as far as he's concerned, if Red John is dead by his hand, justice will have been done. No matter how mellowed out or "better" he was being with the team, he never wavered on that..
''Its not justice, it's vengeance.''
'' What's the difference, really?''
AWW. Can I just hug him.. he's so broken :((
"Justice, real justice, is personal. And sometimes it needs to be delivered with your own hands."
- Sheriff Hood (Banshee)
Most people know him as Homelander, though
Man what I would give to have the skills Patrick have...
Marvicle I’ve met a lady in the social scene where I hang out, she has much of the skill set Patrick Jane has, minus the manipulation. She sees things about people, it comes as picture frames in her mind - or so she explained it to me. But it drains her. She can’t control it or shut it off. Often when we were hanging out, she just wants to have a good time but she can’t, and have to leave because her senses are bombarded.
And I like his hair......
And that face he makes when he is smiling, looks like he is uncomfortable doing that.....like contemplating between smiling or not...,..
@Alexander Leblanc not that I can tell, I'm not a doctor. When we 1st met, she said things about me that no one knew about. Life things I was dealing with. Once, we were at a bar, & a guy came up & was being overly aggressive. She said to me she saw a body hovering over him. She was creeped out & I had to chase him off. The next day, I saw his picture on the news, arrested for murder. She said she doesn't see things for everyone, but it does happen often & she just can't handle it sometimes. It gets too much.
@@audience7264 that's scary
@@audience7264 photographic memory
Lisbon's giving her party line...she's responsible for both jane and the law, but as time goes on she sees that she isn't responsible for jane, he also matures too, and that instead of being his keeper she cares about him and more importantly he cares about her and that he's going to whatever the hell he wants to and no one can stop him. she also saw how awful to him and all of them red john was and probably by that time didn't care...the guy was just a bad human. but lisbon still wouldve done her duty had she been the one to catch him.
Its interesting to note that when he did eventually catch Red John, he shot and then strangled him to death, not as he says here. Probably several reasons for this: (a) it was in a public place (b) Jane is basically squeamish about blood (c) i think he'd come to realise that killing Red John was the ultimate goal and that it was all too grisly to imitate his method of killing.
"thats not justice, that's vengeance.
What's the difference?"
Damn..
Justice is just. Vengeance can be either just or unjust because humans are subjective about everything. So you never know which one you're getting if it is vengeance.
Jane is always the smartest one in the room and yet he doesn't know the difference between justice and vengeance?
@Sam Lim hmm good point. I thought Jane being such a bright dude he would understand. But i forgot he has emotions that blinded him with vengeance like any normal person would.
@Sam Lim the only complaint i have for this show, even though it's one of my most fav tv shows, is that It should have been much darker and heavier, kind of similiar to the show "dexter". Jane being such a smart person he fails laughably to catch red john multiple times. In front of red john we see he cannot think ahead. And the way he narrowed down the list to find red john was hilarious. Red john as a villain was very very weak. I wish the cat and mouse chase between red john and jane was given more thoughts. Otherwise the show was unlike any. It has the feel of both "sherlock" and "lie to me"
@@torababdullah7952 I liked the fact that, in the end, Red John was not some larger than life charismatic cult leader (ie, Brett Stiles). It played out better that he was actually rather small when you took away his support. It also explained how he was always 5 steps ahead of Jane.
The only difference I can see between justice and vengeance is the person carrying it out. If there is a personal motivation, like your wife and daughter were brutally murdered (the fact that they had the daughter murdered like that was one of the most disturbing parts of the show), then it's vengeance. If you kill someone that has brutally murdered people but you have no personal attachment to those people, it's justice. Ergo, there's no difference.
I just realized the guy being interrogated in the first clip has also played in House M.D. the role of a mafia member protecting his hospitalized boss
I think Bosco's Death changed Lisbon's mind, she was okay with the idea of killing RJ
Jane decided that was right once he had lost people who loved him. In the same way, Lisbon lost someone that loved her to RJ. Really quite poetic, in some way.
She helped Bosco when he killed a criminal so it's something she could've done for Jane even if no one she cared about had died. But then it wasn't just about Boscos death. Even after that, she told him she would stop him. I think what changed her mind the most was seeing Jane being haunted by RJ and how much he and the rest suffered for all those years. And the last blow was the Blake Association. RJ was never going to pay, he wasn't going to stop killing and leave them alone unless he was killed.
Why, thank you, judyosborne. I am very flattered!
Damn i miss this show.
Patrick Jane is a BOSS
Great alternative ending in my opinion if Lisbon had arrested Jane after killing Red John. Especially if their relationship were already deeper and more romanticly involved with each other. I'm happier with the way the series ended though !
That's not justice ! Its vengeance.
Jane: what's the difference.
😂😂😂🤣😂🤣🤣
Oh, I think you should try.
For those who search: Season 1 Episode 9
You are welcome
I like it when it slips out. It's in the vowels XD I play that game too... I don't feel that weird now!!!
He tricked her with mentalism. He told her to use more force when she talks, but it was really so that he could use those gestures and commanding voice to plant a "mental seed" that he is in fact in control.
Whenever people ask me what a 20 intel and 20 charisma chaotic neutral character is like - I show them this video
So beautifully put MrsPresleyLennonFrey! I couldn't have said it better myself.
"I hope you burn like a candle"
I may have to remember that
One of the best episodes
Well he himself said that in the season 2 premiere. when the Red John was given to another team he abruptly quit seeing no more reason to be there. he said he'd stick around to see the end of the case they were on and admitted to Lisbon he has nowhere else to go
Looking back at these scenes I never noticed how slim Cho was back in the day
Jane straight up murdered two people in the series. and got away with it.
@@andreblomberg67 doesnt mean he can go above the law. Many people deserve to die in some people's eyes. In other people's eyes they are good people. Who are you to make that judgement? Are you ready to take responsibility for these actions? Not really, are ya.
@@iare19 In other people’s eyes they are good. These other people are crazy, twisted, damaged or evil.
Like in these series is shown. In season 2 that crazy, damaged lady who killed her colleagues because Red John told her to. She too thought the the serial killer, rapist is the good person. That he is doing good things.
So I think that if you’re not a psychopath or a damaged person Or evil, damaged person you know that someone who is doing the things that serial killers do isn’t a good person and really deserves punishment.
This is the moment when you realize that everything single thing Jane has done up till now has been part of his plan to get Red John.
I don't care about the law. I care about justice. - Amen
^ Religious people going psycho.
"You can't talk to me like that, I have rights." Please explain to me what right you have that says you can't be called "miserable son of a bitch." There's no correlation there.
The difference is justice is inclined towards morality and well being of every living being which logically makes it a reasonable choice on the other hand vengeance is more destructive and based on eye for an eye perspective.
Justice is just. Vengeance can be either just or unjust because humans are subjective about everything. So you never know which one you're getting if it is vengeance.
So the Law Abiding Citizen meets Psych.
Let's bring this show back
His icy heart always warms me up.
It's nice to see everyone rationalizing murder on this page.
Vengeance is a form of justice when proportionate, but when disproportionate or otherwise unreasonable, such as when collateral damage is too high, it is unjust. Reimbursement is another form of justice - the two concepts really are quite different, although Jane's vengeance is indeed a form of justice in this case.
between all that cheesy romance and "we are all comrades" vibe in the show jane's"cold bastardness was the only thing worth watching for
I miss this show.
Patrick is right. A court of law is not justice.
Just a legal question: Shouldn't the suspect wait for his lawyer? Am I missing something? Thanks.
this part is so sad-the Red John Part :'(
How is he a cold bastard? I like what he said in both scenes, especially the second one.
at 2:27, when he says "babies or virgins," his australian accent kicks in
The concept of good and bad and law is so egoistic that when u realize it u tend to be indifferent.
Fair point
It's Danny Nucci!!!! Love him!!! (That Old Feeling and Titanic)
is machado fabrizio from titanic?
you're right!
What season and episode
I like him even more
When he says 'Babies or virgins' do you not hear a slight Aussie accent creep out?
well i think Patrick doesn't care what happens to him after he kills Red John.... Patrick only cares about catching Red John and killing him so he can get revenge for what Red John did to his family
Vengeance is justice.
definitely, if he's given the opportunity.
lisbon probably knows that jane wouldn't gain anything by killing red john. the pain he feels won't go away even if he kills red john...
Not true. Apparently Jane was a lot nice after killing Red John
Yeah right, like Red John would face justice from a court. Government would probably intervened and make some excuse to use him for another purpose.
Yeah, and I notice it slips sometimes on the letter 'o'.
I think it's still a very convincing accent, though.
I realise what I hated about the video quality of the early seasons. The lighting was too dark and the camera was up in everyones face. Those extreme close ups should only really be used for dramatic scenes not the casual scene.
i'm afraid red john is gonna hurt lisbon to get jane : (
it was really disappointing when jane strangled red john to death and red john claimed to have "real psychic powers" instead of jane gutting him like a fish
What is the number of episode?
How is that at the end cold? Seems like revenge, a taste considered hot by all standards.
didn't he try to quit in the pilot episode too? I hope they don't keep doing that.
This is the moment he realized that he couldn't stay with her............
Well, it goes to show you that Patrick Jane was indeed serious for he forfilled his desire to end Red John's life. Good for him!! Awesome episode, 'Strawberries and Cream', the finale to season 3!! I think we viewers were all rooting for Jane to follow through with his revenge!! Can't wait for season 4 when we see Patrick Jane in his day in court!
I do enjoy the playfulness of Patrick but sometimes he can be such an asshole. Like the time he bantered with a father whose son was murdered by continuing to name other organs when the father mentioned that his son had the guts and hearts (S2 EP20). Or when that one time Patrick destroyed a code-breaking device for encryption and decryption of sensitive data that was worth millions which upset the person who was working to have to have the device (S2 EP21). I feel like he goes all out to offend every one, sometimes to show his wit and that he's better than every one else and sometimes just for the heck of it.
That code breaking device was destroyed bcoz he thought it could be dangerous if it falls in the wrong hand. He was bad when mentioned other organs but maybe he sensed something was not right with the father whose son just died. He was proven right in the end. He was so sweet the following scene with the little girl teasing her and Lisbon. Sometimes he does outrageous things to provoke people.
It isn't just that. Sometimes he's intentionally cold and insensitive because he wants to provoke a reaction in someone he thinks is guilty, especially if they're prone to emotional manipulation. Though he can overdo it sometimes, and unleash his brutal sense of wit on those undeserving of its impact.
Gram T:
you are seeing Jane accurately.
the Patrick Jane character, albeit wonderfully talented, is really not a good person, although his actions do often have significant benefits for other people. ultimately, for Jane, those benefits are, probably, incidental. Jane accomplishes what he does as part of his long game to catch Red John, as well as out of a motivation to show other people that he is smarter, etc.
Simon Baker does play the character, at times, as somewhat altruistic and/or genuinely likable. this, no doubt, is to make the character a hero for the audience to root for. the writers may have wanted Baker to play Jane that way, too.
in reality, however, those things may be somewhat foreign to Jane's nature. Jane is different from many other people. he is not somewhat different or even quite a bit different. he is, as a psychopath, A LOT different, at least in how he views the world and himself. hence, the need for a constant disguise when around others who see such things differently...
i can give some support for this assertion about him always wearing a disguise... do you remember the scene where Cho and him go undercover in a different episode involving the team trying to prevent a crime (murdering the mayor/mass shooting)? in that episode, Cho asks Jane why he isn't wearing a disguise, sort of giving Jane a hard time about it. Jane then repeats the word, "disguise" to himself quietly, in a sort of ironic, amused way.
anyway, i, personally, don't sympathize too much with people who are not attached to the truth, although i am fascinated by the people who can pull off such deceit. what i like about Jane is his willingness/ability to think for himself (not conventional), the lesson learned from him that if you are clever enough (unfortunately, i often am not) there may be a solution to just about any problem and how he can amusingly (for the audience) put people in "their place".
sorry if i ran on here with my opinions...