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11:20 - Graduated from Gymnasium in 2010 - After trying to understand the diffrence of US college and university recently, it sounds to me, like finishing German Gymnasium is more like a college degree, IF YOU PAY ATTENTION AND TAKE SCHOOL SERIOUSLY! 😅 Your Highschool seems to be more like our Realschule, MORE OR LESS... Besides, as you seem to be into traveling, if you want your child to know anything about geography do yourself a favour and send it to a German school. Or a French one. Or in Spain. Or... ANY place, except the US (and probably Canada)😂
When I went to school in Niedersachsen and Berlin(West) there was no exam to be sat at the end of Grundschule. The determination of which further school you got recommended for was an ongoing process covering 2 years which kinda ran unnoticeably in the background during the last 2 years of Grundschule ie 5th and 6th grade. Gymnasium (which is where I was sent to) started in 7th grade. If you successfully pass Gymnasium US universities will give you a Bachelor degree in 2 years instead of 4.
@@troglodyte0 In the PISA study the US reached a score of 478 which puts them 38th in the world. German pupils got 500 placing Germany at 20th place. However the German score is an average of Hauptschule, Realschule and Gymnasium. Taking the Gymnasiasten on their own they'd score 600. The official number 1 China scores 'only' 591.
@@gustavmeyrink_2.0 neither was there an exam in Schleswig-Holstein, you had to reach certain grades and then the headteacher would recommend to which school you would go, but your parents could decide otherwise, although most people, who attended Gymnasium without recommendation, didn't make it within the first two years. Most of left left after half a year. From what I've heard certain grades are mandatory in Bavaria though...
8:23 @PassportTwo : you forget, that AFTER school your kids start their ~3 years learning a profession = Ausbildung, getting ALSO practical experience, while university involve too less practical experience. ALSO: if your kids later really (and show the ability ) WANT to go to university, THEY CAN. They have to do do ‚Fachabitur‘ … Choosing ONE path in ‚Oberschule‘, is NOT the end of education, at least in Germany. PLEASE ask your German friends and contacts, before you panic 😉
You realize that there is mandatory Berufsschule after Hauptschule or Realschule so you will barely find any German student with less than 12 years of formal education...
@@MinotaurLP sixteen, actually. You can drop out of school without you or your parents getting into trouble once you turn sixteen. Yes, vocational school after secondary school means people usually go to school until they're 18 or older, but you're not forced to go to school after you've turned 16 if you don't have a job and thus don't go to vocational school.
Many questions to answer, so I'll make it as short as possible (remember? Germans are frank 😉): 1. No test in the end of grade 4. Instead an evaluation of the over all performance throughout years 3 and 4. Especially concerning the type of learning the child is strong at: more like learning by heart or more like analysing, understanding, finding connections? 2. Yes, there is a seperation after grade 4, sometimes after grade 6. But that doesn't mean you can't reach the Abitur (= allowed to university): change to Gymnasium after having graduated from Realschule; take a few extra courses at your Berufsschule while training for the job or even finish your apprenticeship and then go study a related subject at a university. (There also is a fourth type of school called "Gesamtschule" that takes all children and offers A- and B- courses depending on the learning-velocity.) 3. True - at Universities very few subjects aside your main study program. But still you have to do foreign language(s), often also electives like economics for natural scientists or legal aspects of what you will be going to do later. 4. Yes, a Bachelor is supposed to take three years. But many students take/need another one or two semesters. 5. My husband (in 1990) as well as our neighbor's daughter (around 2015ish) went to the US (Washington State resp. New York State) for an exchange year of studying. They both were surprised to find out that what they were supposed to learn in their bachelor's program they had already done during school grades 10 to 13 for their Abitur. That might explain the differences in number and types of subjects beside the main program. Another main difference that you did not mention: in Germany Multiple Choice Tests are still very uncommon at school and hardly ever given whereas in the US they seem to be quite common as far as I heard...
FWIU Berlin has Gesamtschulen partly because they have a lot of school buildings from the DDR era (and a few from the Western Powers who had built them for their own army brats) that were set up that way and partly because it's one of the more progressive states
Small addition. It is possible to switch between Hauptschule, Realschule and Gymnasium. We had a special track at Gymnasium where pupils from Realschule and Hauptschule switched to our school. They had some additional courses for 2 or 3 years to get on the same level. 10 to 12/13 grade all were together. There are more Gesamtschlen" coming up. These schools combine all 3 schools and pupils chose after some years, where to focus.
You don't have to take foreign language classes at uni. This is very much programme specific. If you study business administration, sure, you may be required to take a course on business English but if you study a natural science, this is not a thing I have heard of from anyone studying in or near Münster in the last decade or two.
I myself switched from Realschule to Gymnasium after my 10th year - together with a friend . While I struggled with English (Gymnasium expected serious text analysis at this point already, in Realschule the teacher was happy if we where able to conjugate correctly ...) I had no trouble with math or the sciences. My friend dropped out of Gymnasium after a year because he wanted something more practical (he's a trained chiropractor now). We also had a few folks in Realschule that stepped down from Gymnasium in 9th grade. So the system is not fixed. Another thing is with a master in your trade you are permitted at any university. Given, catching up on theory is a struggle after so many years out of school, but several architects and engineers in Germany originally learned a trade.
Yes, I also haven't heard of anyone having to take a test after grade 4 that determines what secondary scholl they'll go to. Instead the main teacher of grade 4 gives a recommendation what type of secondary school the kid would do best in, but the parents don't have to follow that recommendation. Through family members and friends who are teachers at Gymnasium and elementary school and others with kids currently or formerly in Gesamtschule I've heard a lot about the advantages and disadvantages about this system. Chief among them: kids end up in a secondary school that is not the right fit for them. Parents tend to want to send their kid(s) to Gymnasium because they perceive it as more prestigious, think attending a 'lower' level of school would mean their kid is somehow less intelligent or don't want their kid to be stuck in class with 'all those other dumb kids'. But, as was pointed out in the video, kids are different, some learn faster, some learn more slowly, some are better at book-learning and others are super handy and great at hands-on stuff or athletics etc. In theory the system is meant to split kids up so they can progress through school at their own optimal speed with the emphasis that is best for them, without having to either be slowed down by others or being the one to slow others down. But in reality it's still a 'mixed bag' so to speak of students in each school type, so you end up with kids being frustrated and stress because they're bored or because they have trouble keeping up. (And let's not even talk about the whole inclusion thing, where teachers without the training/education to do so or anyone to help them have kids with special needs in their classes, and those kids suffer for it because they are the noticeable, different minority amongst their peers and don't get the support they need. I'm sure there are exceptions where this arrangement works out for individuals, but amongst the weirdly many teachers I know ALL of them are very critical of this arrangement.) As was pointed out in another comment, it IS possible to switch between these school types, though. So if a kid starts going to one type of school and realises that's not a good fit for them they can switch to another school type that works better. I've seen this both in terms of switching from Gymnasium to Gesamtschule and the other way around amongst my friends and their families. What's also a consideration is the number of times students are allowed to repeat a grade. I used to think that there's a max number for that for a student's whole school career (or at least for their total time at secondary school), but I've since learned that that's not the case. Instead, kids are allowed a max of I think it was 2 repeats for grades 5-10 and another max 2 repeats for grades 11-13. Or something like that. So, if someone is at that maximum they can then instead switch to another type of school. At least I think so. As for the whole 3 year vs 4 year bachelor degree: I agree with Donny, that this is probably because the general education that American universities cover in the first year or so is covered in high school already in Germany, which allows German universities to get right into the thick of a given subject from the very first semester. The downside of the German way of doing it is that it's much harder to switch majors once you've started at university. Or, rather, you can switch, of course, but you'll have to start from the very beginning again and unless the new major is very similar to the old one won't be able to use any courses you've already taken. And since the government will only financially support a student's first course of studies, switching to a different program can have major consequences. Of course, tuition in Germany is nothing like what it's in the US... What's also investing in regards to university in Germany is that since we used to have different degrees (Diplom instead of Bachelor+Master), it seems that in most people's heads a Bachelor's degree doesn't seem to be a 'full' degree, and from what I understand your job options are a bit limited if you 'only' get an undergraduate degree. Mostly that seems to be seen as the prerequisite you need to get into a graduate program. A German Master's degree takes two years, which is also the theoretical time it's supposed to take in North America. But going by how astounded my Canadian colleagues where at finding out that I actually completed my (German) Master's degree in two years and the comments they made, it usually takes North American (or at least Canadian?) graduate students quite a bit longer. For a PhD it seems to then be similar, as I heard my profs in Germany talk about how a German PhD is sometimes seen as lesser in the US because it can be completed in a much shorter period of time. I think it was 3 years vs 5 years...? Or perhaps 7? One former colleague (in Canada) actually took 9 years, though admittedly there were extenuating circumstanced that slowed things down for her.
you can also crosspath in germany. when you prove to be good in hauptshule and realschule, its NOT uncommon for children, to go to gymnasium from 11-12/13 grade and then go to university. the path is NOT set in stone. because kids that were behind in grundschule can still develop good later on....they then just had a slow start.....
also works the other way round: if you struggle in Gymnasium and would need to repeat the year, you often switch to Realschule and continue with to next grade. And later perhaps switch back to Gymnasium. You can also go to university from Realschule if you had good grades. You can even go to University from Hauptschule if you learn a profession first, get a 'Meister' and then go to university. The presssure is not too high for the kids, because the still have all options later in life.
It's been a while for me, but I went to Hauptschule. After I believe 7th grade I was considered good enough to do extra courses during 8th and 9th grade. At the end of 9th grade, I was good enough to skip the exams of Hauptschule and went on to do Werkrealschule, which is an additional 10th grade in the same school with exams of Realschule at the end. I aced those exams and went on to go to another two-year-school, that gave me "Fachhochschulreife" - basically the degree needed to be able to go to a university of applied sciences. And of course, I did exactly that. I studied 4 years at such a university and ended up being the best of my year. It's been a long road, but I think I came out ahead 😅
For example, there are two different ways for working people without an Abitur to study in Hamburg. The first path is for graduates of a further education examination, the second path is suitable for professionals with completed vocational training and professional experience. There does not have to be a technical relationship between the professional qualifications and the desired course of study. These are just two examples of the possibility of obtaining a higher education qualification without having to go through a grammar school. Others, for example, are via the "Fachhochschulreife" or a dual course of study that combines training and university, e.g. commercial training with business studies, also called "Werksstudent". There are so many ways to change paths and find the right one that suits you that it takes your own studies to figure it all out.
@@Jonathan-kraaiactually that is the only way i had seen. From Gymnasium to Realschule not the other way around. I woes the 6 yeas on an Realschule and i know no one who cenged the school upp not down. I only Know people who were on Gymnasium for an Abitur afterworts.
What i think is absolutely important to mention, is that it is not decided after Grundschule, wheter you can go to university or not. After Hauptschule, you can also achieve a Realschulabschluss. And after Realschule, you can also switch to the Oberstufe of a Gymnasium, and get your Abitur in the end. You can also get your Abitur later on, as an adult. At any age. ("Abendgymnasium")
+ since the introduction of the Bachelorsystem you have also the possibility to study for said Bachelor in certain fields of work without needing an Abitur - so not having it doesn't hold you back in life
Also I didn't take an exam to determine which school I should attend after Grundschule, my teacher gave evaluations and recommendations to the parents of each student, which they could follow or ignore. Basically it was the parent's decision, the Grundschule just gave advice on how to go on.
But there are careers that are difficult to get into if you weren't visiting a Gymnasium (e.g. medicine). So, options are restricted compared to the Gymnasium.
@@kathrinbauer5358 well, even if you visited the gymnasium, it can be quite difficult to study medicine, as your final grades must be really good, as you probably know. (yes, there are other ways, but I think we can agree, that in general a really good "Abitur" is the common way to get a place to study medicine) LG
I remember our teachers at the Gymnasium drilling into us the importance of general knowledge and that the Abitur literally means you have the highest possible degree of general education. When I went to attend university, most of my professors and instructors expected us to have a vast amount of skills and knowledge based on that (e.g. fluency in English, essay writing, critical thinking, analysing complex problems, literary figures, historical events etc) to which they could add. If you didn't know something they presupposed, you had to go and teach it to yourself or find someone who could help with that.
Students can't wait to get out of class so they can learn things. When I was in school, I would ask my classmates "What did the professor say?" and the response was something like "I don't know, I wasn't listening. I just teach myself when I get home."
Abitur comes from latin abire = go away/further, proceed. So the literal meaning of Abitur is actually to be ready to proceed (Im Begriff sein fortzuschreiten)
But we did not have a terrible pression, we had the brains to keep up. I don't remember doing homework up to 13 class... Oberprima, just a bit the evening before exams if needed. For the Abitur I did not sit and learn for more than maybe 5 hours. It was anyways less about what you know but how to find and process the information. Well, you had to know some stuff though.. which I learned in class, while needling pullovers. But, I admet, we were the elite ( town of 100000, 3 Gymnasien, 2500 students in 9 levels) and yes, we looked a bit down on the other kids but mostly stayed in our echochamber... between...us.
American here who has lived in Germany for 18 years and now has three kids in school (1st, 4th and 6th grade - Realschule). I had exactly the same thoughts as you did, at first. I couldn’t fathom the pressure of fourth grade, and hated the idea of a “classist” system. But let me tell you we are totally happy with it now and I don’t honestly think I would want my kids in American schools anymore. First of all, there isn’t that pressure in fourth grade as I thought. There also is no test. And the parents get free choice of the decision on which school to send their child too (except in Bayern, I believe.) Second, the lower tiered schools aren’t nearly as bad as I used to think. Both my husband and I are engineers and we thought all of our kids would go to Gymnasium, but our oldest child had trouble with reading and also in social aspects, so they recommended the Realschule and we followed their recommendation. Her grades weren’t THAT bad, really but we thought it would help her to get more confident in herself and that the extra attention would be good. Well that turned out to be exactly the case and we are SSO happy with her school. The classes are much smaller than in the gymnasium, and they have a lot more support from the teachers. It also isn’t full of “bad kids” as we thought it might be. With all of our kids we have noticed that the German schools seem to teach more, and also harder material in earlier grades than I would have expected based on my American education in the 90’s. They also expect the kids to be more independent and there is less hand-holding. But there is also more support - teachers are all experts in their subjects and are very competent. I really do feel that the quality of education here is higher than they would have in the states. Regarding the apprenticeship system - let me tell you, the Germans have an absolutely world class system for that! Their schooling does continue during the apprenticeship, it is just at a different school, and they are learning more practical things, and they spend some of their days at the company for training as well. (The factory I work at has a big program for Azubis) In general people don’t look down at someone who didn’t study as they might in the states, they accept the, as a regular person just like anyone else. I really like that a lot. And finally, the main reason I don’t want to move back to states with school-age children: school shootings. Sorry but that is a total deal-breaker for me.
If the child id good in Realschule it can go to an Gymnasium with is specalised. Technischees Gymnasium Soziales Gymnasium, Biologisch Technisches Gymnasium Gymnasium mit mehr Kundst und Musikunterricht, ... Auch nach nahc der Hauptdchuel kann man bei entsprechenden Noten oft die 10. Kalssse anhängen und hat dann auch einen Realschulabschluss und kann dannn auch weiter machen und ein abiturprüfung bestehen jund Studieren. Es dauert nur etwas länger. Auch während der Ausbildung kann man die Fachhochschulreife nahcholen wenn man ein paar Zusdatzfächer belegt und danach An einer Fachhochschule anfangen zu Studieren und nahc den ersten Prüfungen auf eine "normale" Universität wechseln. Und nahc einer Ausbildung kann man drn Meister machenwas zusätzlichen Theorieunterricht bedseutet und dann mehr verdienen als jemand mit Universitätsabschluss.
Our kid is currently in 4th grade (in Bavaria) and we are navigating the different options. Our kiddo will most likely have the grades to go to Gymnasium, but she will likely go to Realschule just to help reduce the stress quite a bit because she gets nervous about the higher level of work at the Gymnasium. And while the split after 4th grade is still there, it doesn't seem like it is as "permanent" as it was when I went to school here in the 90s. It feels like it is much easier now to switch between the different pathways, and to go on with your education after graduating from one of the "lower" pathways and still get your Abitur if you are so desired.
Are you living in Bavaria? Because I also grew up here in Germany, but in NRW and my school was literally falling appart (holes in the walls in our classroom, where you could look outside, the heating system was broken so it was always on even in the hottest summer days and it was incredibly ugly and run down. The building was 40 years old and we were 3,5 thousand students). A lot of our teachers were very incompetent. Our German teacher also teached history and luckly had to stop teaching biology since she never learnt biology in was just bad, also in history she sometimes told us blatantly wrong things. For english we mostly had substitute teachers, since our first teacher got pregnant, then we got a substitute, then the substitute got also pregnant and at last we had a pretty cool, but incredibly demanding male english teacher. We had "coding" classes, but there was no teacher who knew anything about that, probably every single student knew more about that than any teacher and the teacher we got, was a gay art teacher (I'm only mentioning, that he was gay, because it was annoying how often he told us, like unappropriate, no one cared, most were annoyed) that made us fill pictures in paint with the fill bucket. Like it was an insane waste of time, we probably would have learnt more if we were left alone without teacher. But there are stark differences between schools even in the same city. I wanted to switch schools and one were I wanted to apply seemed to be very prestigious and disciplined (and they were condescending to me on the phone).
I grew up in Austria which has a school system very similar to Germany's but live in New Zealand which has the US American school system. Once I was in a team meeting at work and I used the word "continent". And this young woman fresh out of high school asked me "What is a continent?" I explained it to her, but had not been able to hide how shocked I was at her lack of general knowledge. So she said "Well I didn't take geography at school" Going through twelve years of school without ever taking a subject, that is a core subject in Austria or Germany - that's the US American school system!
Even if the school system has totally failed to teach the basics of life on earth, the parents are not entirely uninvolved in this. Even a primitive people with less evidence-based knowledge gives their children a more complete view of the world and usualy a rich culture.
Very nice video! So as a german with a rather uncommon educational path, here is my experience: I dropped out of Gymnasium at the age of 18 after the 10th grade, not because I'm stupid but more because I was lazy and other stuff was more important to me than school. After a few years of little to no perspective on what I want to do in my life and working different kind of low paid jobs, I started my vocational training as a joiner at the age of 21. This contained one year of fulltime Berufsschule called Berufsgrundbildungsjahr (BGJ), a school where we were taught the basics about woodprocessing, constructional drawing and handling different kinds of machinery. During this BGJ we had to apply for our further vocational training at different companies. In the following 2 years I was an apprentice in a company with one day of Berufschule (school) per week. (In apprenticeships for different jobs this could also be done with Blockunterricht. There you would have multiple blocks consisting of 2-3 weeks each, where you would only go to Berufsschule. those blocks are distributed over the year.) And after those 3 years in total we had final exams, practical and theoretical, after which we got our degree as trained professionals. (Yes we had further smaller exams in the course of those 3 years, rated with grades and yes, they mattered too.) I was 24 years old back then. At the age of 28 I decided that I want to educate myself even further and applied to a Fachschule. To get accepted by them, they wanted me to prove my degree as trained professional and also that I've worked for at least one year in the field of my proficiency (Joiner), and I met their requierments. I had to visit the Fachschule fulltime for 2 years in total, facing a ton of exams, presentations and projects I had to complete. In the second year we were given the choice to take additional classes and exams to also get Abitur along with our bachelor degree, which I did. Not because I needed the Abitur, but I wanted to prove it to myself and as I've grown more adult I had regrets dropping from Gymnasium. And this is how I dropped out from school early and still managed to get my crafts proficiency, my Abitur, and my bachelor degree at the age of 30. The school system here is complicated, but you also have so many options to grow and improve yourself if you realy want to. Thanks for reading this
It´s not a bachelor degree. It´s a professional bachelor degree. Bachelore deegres are only handed out by universities and universities of applied sciences.
And it is also possible to reach Abitur with some additional school, after leaving Hauptschule. So nobody needs to worry about the school you may proceed after Grundschule😅.
@@hrizwaldieos8239 Not necessarily. a) Hochschulen typically also have the right to award bachelor and master degrees, and sometimes depending on the Hochschule even doctorates (aka Ph.D.). b) also some Fachhochschulen have been granted the right to award unrestricted bachelor degrees.
Hello,I’m a German 7th grade on Gymnasium right now and I just wanted to say ,that you can go on after 9th grade, even if you were on a Haupt- or Realschule,then you just switch the school
Dont forget to write = Abitur = highest grad in german school system is primary for to go to a university. But a lot companys like to see young persons with these grade for e.g. larn to work in a bank. Or learn office work. or or or They dont like young people with lower intelligence and lower ability to stand the high preassure from a german Gymnasium to get the high school grade. To compare a german and a US person ... Better say nothing until you have been in both systems. Generally if you got the highest school grade Abitur, than very often the persons dont go to university. Even if is state payed (nearly) free ... You need money and the parents can they pay for a lot of years ? Not sure that a german pass the university !! Generally most students cry and leave the university with nothing in there hands ! Good idea to sign a contract with a company for 3 (or 4) years training on the job 3 days per week and 2 days per week state business or technical school called Berufsschule. You get a little more than no money ! You are only a young person that still sleep in the childrens room for thses time until they pass the theoreticl and practial test. Than these persons are really skilled and not a chance for US young persons because of the high quality technical school training. Same technical school in US is existing ... But it is expensive ! Resulte german is very very very very very very different to US. Compare is difficult and not easy , better to write impossible. A german lost his job after some years (mabe he is a skilled car mechanic = 4 years technical school and work in the company) it is hard to find an other high level job. An office work ? In theory impossible in gemrany. Not really true but that is the way it is gerneral. In US you can hold a lawn mover, than you are a ... You know something about roof well, after a short time you are a good roofer. Same in Germany, but the company will first choose a person with training school papers and no unskilled person that was before working in a car service. Possible and legal yes, but in reality not often ... Change jobs is in germany a high risk to be very very fast a poor person. You have to work at the same job. But difficult to find a job in your area and you think if you can afford to move. Ok same in US. But different and in US you find a job if you must find a job. Germany is different. If you must find a job it is low payed and you learn to cry at night. All because of the diffent school system, the different Berufschule = special job training school (2 days school 3 days work in company) and that a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot of person got a examination form there special job school. Because it is in US expensive ... Well in germany it is state payed free, but your boss pay very very very low money per workhoure and you work only 3 days per week and for often 3 years (some jobs shorten than 3 years and e.g. car mechanic 4 years) . When you are a german and want to go to US = A degree for a job in the health system is in germany ok payed. Not bad but not good. Go to US and if they aceppt your skilled examination than you see the difference. Ok other jobs are not well payed in US. Germany and US is very very very different. Only water, air, sun, moon are identical. SMILE = (but I am not really sure about that)
Homeschooling being forbidden adds to the concept to assure that the kids get fed and and cared for -and get to experience different aspects of life. It's a tool to try to😊 minimize abuse and indoctrination as much as a providence of essential education and skills.
Are you sure about the exam in 4th grade? I've never heard of any Bundesland where this is done. Usually, the homeroom teacher gives a recommendation to the parents which school type the kid should attend going forward. This recommendation is handled differently depending on the state (it is binding in some states, and in some it is not), but so far I've not heard about an actual exam being tied to that recommendation.
There is no exam at the end of grade 4. The children write many tests called "Proben" in their core classes (esp. German, maths, local history (Heimatkunde)). In some federal states the average mark of these Proben are taken to decide which profile the child will go into, in others it is the recommendation of the teacher. Or the parents have the right to decide where the child will go. 16 federal states, 16 different decisions.
For our school in Bavaria the recommendation was based a lot on the average grades of 3 subjects. A lot of the best students in my year were at the Realschule before 10th grade, just because they liked it there.
I took a test in 4th grade in my school in Hamburg. It was in the year 1973! But the outcome was only a recommendation not a rule where you have to go to a certain school after that. It was meant to be a help for parents to consider the right school after that. My own parents would have chosen a gymnasium after that test but I got rebellious and choose a gesamtschule - best choice of my live!
You need to keep in mind, that there are many ways to get to university in Germany. I for example started at the Hauptschule. Because my grades where fine I was free to switch to Realschule in 7th grade. After I finished Realschule I visited a so called Berufskolleg where I made my Fachabitur (took 2 years) which allowed me to go to some types of university where I then got my degree. I also could have switched to a regular Gymnasium for 3 years after Realschule which then would qualify me for any university. Depending on grades of course. A Berufskolleg is a school that is more practical oriented. For example my 2 years were centered around all kine of IT topics. There are also other specified in Nature Sciences or Arts or Business stuff. I think every kid that wants to go to a university in Germany will have many options to do so. There are a lot of individual paths.
I think the difference, you’re talking about is, with Fachabitur you only can go to „Universities of applied science“, while with a regular Abitur, you could go to any university, as you already mentioned.
@@TimoWolf200 not if he talks about the real Fachabitur. Ich habe auch nur die Fachhochschulreife (12.Klasse) und kann damit meistens auch nur an Fachhochschulen studieren (gibt aber auch Ausnahmen z.B. in Brandenburg und einige Unis machen Ausnahmen). Wenn ich das richtige Fachaitur hätte (13.Klasse ohne 2.Fremdsprache), dann hätte ich auf dem Fachgebiet alles in einer Uni studieren können. Bsp. Ein Fachabitur in Technik würde dir erlauben ein Studium in Maschinenbau, vielleicht sogar in Physik und Mathe, an einer beliebigen Uni zu machen.
The split-up into three school types also has the advantage, that at schools below Gymnasium (Realschule, Hauptschule) you can be an „A-Student“ - which is better for your self confidence - compared to receiving bad or mediocre grades at Gymnasium. During teenage years I find it especially important to receive reassurance that you are ok. Bad grades pull you down.
I went to Gymnasium, but I had a friend who jumped schools twice - from Hauptschule via Realschule to Gymnasium. He told me that he went from being leagues ahead of everyone, to being "just very good", to more or less middling in grades in Gymnasium. But he made it. I can only imagine he was either just a late bloomer - or his teacher in Grundschule outright hated him.
or you just keep your end goal in mind and focus on getting your Abitur. who cares about grades afterwards. no one. but you have more freedom of choice for the rest of your life.
So ein Quatsch! Mir haben die Lehrer damals gesagt auf der Realschule wäre ich einer der guten auf dem Gymnasium einer der schlechten. Ich durfte trotzdem aufs Gymnasium mit meinen Noten und war sogar 2 Jahre Jahrgangsstufenbeste. Ich studiere jetzt auch. Das ist der größte Irrglaube. Das impliziert auch das Schüler anstatt über sich zu wachsen an Herausforderungen, aufgeben. Wenn es jemand wirklich nicht schafft dann ist es die bessere Option aber nicht im Vorhinein.
actually, the decision if your kid goes to Gymnasium or Gemeinschaftsschule (Real/Haupt) mainly is made from social capital points of views - which literally means: if your parents are middle class, you will go to Gymnasium, because you behave middle class, if your parents are below middle class, you will very likely go to Gemeinschaftsschule. There really isn't a lot of difference in IQ or willingness, except that you learn to loose willingness to obey the school systems rules if they keep telling you, that you are a subpar student.
School systems like the US puts you in classes that you will succeed in. If you have an Intellectual Disability (downsyndrome for example) you are in core classes with kids who have Intellectual Disabilities. If you are a genius you are place in core classes that will challenge you. Core classes are math, science, history, geography, your countries language course (for me English), reading, and Literature. Noncore classes are Music, foreign language, Home Economics (learn how to sew, make food, etc), shop class (learn to build things out of wood), etc. My school had car mechanics class. Kids with Intellectual Disabilities were able to be in this class. I took music and we had 3 kids with Intellectual Disabilities in our class. My brother was only 2 points away from a Intelligence test to be a genius and I was in the "normal" class. Both of us had self confidence when it came to our grades. If you want individuals to be well rounded and tolerate other people's learning shortcomings you need to integrate them. Living in Germany and Switzerland I noticed they weren't as good dealing with Intellectual Disabled people. I succeeded and made these individuals feel like a normal person because I interacted with them through all of school.
At German university the Bachelor degree is supposed to take 3 years, but after that you make a Master degree which takes additional 2 years. So if you want to become a teacher f.e. you need to go through 5 years of Uni. Also if you study something in Uni, you don't need to study anything except for your subject. So if you study math and physics for becoming a teacher there is only Math, Physics and pedagogy (didactics + how to raise/educate Kids). Nothing else. You can take additional classes if you want to, but they are not mandatory and cannot exchange a mandatory module.
I´m in University at the moment and I need 20 credit points in non core subjects.(Allgemeine srudien) wich can be anything. I study history and archeology and I can choos anything from: History of the Byzantian Empire, Lawyer speak, ecological efects of trees, Latin, French, Spanish, Chinese,... , Russia from 1762 to today, Chinese Politics and Economy,... and so much more. I can choose whatever I want and there are a lot of history related courses to take but I could take whatever I want.
That's indeed how it works in the Netherlands. During my minor in DE I was required to take 2 language courses of 3 credits each as that's mandatory in DE and not in NL. We have all 180/240 credits on our field of study, no side business like language. we're expected to be fluent in at least 3 language before college.
Not useful to know these for US people. They have to use google and read what google find. I can say and write it thound times = German is not US ! Very very very very different. Impossible to compare and difficult to understand.
I'm a german who studied Computer Science get get a Diplom (mostly equivalent to a master's degree) before we switched to the more international Bachelor / Master system. I was required to choose a "Nebenfach" or secondary topic as well as my desired major. On top of that, we were required to take 3 courses that were labeled as "studium generale" - which basically means "Go learn something completely unrelated, it might be interesting!". I took Archeology, Genetics and Japanese (just to give you a rough idea of the available bandwidth). These courses were taken along students who actually studied these topics as major, we just didn't have to take the exams on those topics. This is somewhat university-specific I think, but I liked the approach.
German here who actually went to high school in Germany and college / grad school in Oklahoma - also worked at an OK university. So, what absolutely flabbergasted me when I was a tutoring and testing coordinator in OK is how absolutely unprepared students out of high school are in Oklahoma. The university is an open enrollment university. That means they take anyone regardless of skill level, but have entry exams for English and Math and have remedial classes that prepare for college level classes. So, riddle me this: How can someone who GRADUATED high school need Beginning Algebra - a course that starts with explaining adding, subtracting, how to write a number, and so on??? Now, I basically stayed on the math side most of the time, had an English tutor student worker to handle English. Once he wasn't in, I checked on someone in a remedial English class. He presented me with a text that was a half-page run-on. No punctuation, several trains of thought, missing subjects, etc. I asked him to next time read it out loud first and see if this is ready for someone else to look at. That student never heard of that concept. I wouldn't have passed 3rd grade with something like that in Germany, let alone 6th grade English as a foreign language second year (in that language). To be very clear: For students who came into that college, the education was top-notch! It they battled through that lack of primary education, they will do just fine! I am almost done with my PhD at a Tier 1 university in Texas now, and I do have to thank that OK university for that! Oh, on the Bachelors: I did a dual BS in Oklahoma in 3 years. Absolutely possible, and in Texas (working at uni here now in data) even more and more common since a lot of students come in with a lot of dual credit or AP credit (Advanced Placement; harder high school classes) that are accepted as college credit. I saw as much as 54 Semester Credit Hours - that's about 10 shy of an Associates degree.
I am American and 30 years ago I studied in Belgium. At that time Belgium had open enrollment for every discipline, even medicine and engineering. I thought that was so wasteful. Belgium no longer has open enrollment for certain disciplines now though. I took AP math in school before it was accepted as university credit. I attended community college to prepare for university, because I knew school wasn't going to be enough. I didn't have to take any remedial courses, but for the students that did at community college, they got a better exposure to what would be expected at university than the students straight out of school.
German Realschule graduate... moons ago... All you need as a qualification to attend universities in the US is a credit card... money talks... students are customers - oddly enough they are never allowed to park close to the buildings where they take classes... been there, done that - yep, and got the T-shirt...
It is a common misconception that children are divided based on intelligence. They're not. They're divided based on aptitude and ability to conform to a rigid fast-paced schooling system. This may be dependent on character, neurotypicallity, family ambitions etc. Etc. Chances are though, if by grade 4 you are falling behind, you have trouble sitting at a desk staring at papers. It makes sense to send these kids to a more hands on approach school. They have the chance to rejoin the university system via the "second educational path".
Concerning your last point: Most B.A. programmes in Germany contain a certain pool of credit points that are unrelated to your studies, where you're pretty free in how to fill them. That can be done through internships, language courses, courses from other subjects, extra-curricular activities, etc. I do think, however, that this general, broader freshers/sophomore education is something which already happens in the Gymnasium in Germany. I know that curriculums for schools are a wild mess across Germany, but at least here in Baden-Württemberg, you usually learn two or three foreign languages during your time at the Gymnasium, along with history classes spanning from Ancient Egypt to the third reich (extensively) and the division of Germany, arts, music and physical education, in addition to two or three sciences along with German and maths.
I studied in the late 90s in Berlin. We had to take 3 courses of language, one of them specific to our field of study (so in my case focus on arts/history) and two courses that weren't part of our faculty (my choice were basic astronomy + geography).
I study data science and a whole 5 credit points withing the compulsory elective courses are free to choose lol Of course with the CP of all the other elective modules tweaked so that you can't really use it or it'll just be double the work haha
Another interesting difference is that in Germany, teachers who teach about grade 4 level must have a masters degree to teach whereas in the US that’s not the case. In 12 years of going through schooling (including) gymnasium in Germany, I have never taken a multiple choice test. I also recall teachers telling us that what we covered in biology is what students learn in 2years at university. You may also want to cover the differences of entering university in Germany vs. US. It’s mind boggling. I finished gymnasium in Germany and came to US for my undergraduate degree, on my very first day at College in the US, multiple professors asked why I’m in college if I already know everything and suggested that I go straight to graduate school (unfortunately the US system doesn’t recognize the German Abitur as a college equivalent degree) - I was bored out of my mind during most of college and the majority of my fellow students had no idea about world events, culture, geography, sciences, literature, music and art theory, politics, and many other subject. Some of the classes I was required to take as part of the core curriculum were equivalent to what I had learnt in 6th grade. The US educational system is a real disservice to the vast majority of its students. Another interesting difference is that at college, before each exam, students are either told by the instructor or can ask the instructor what exact content will be covered on the upcoming exam. I don’t think any German teacher would ever provide insight into that. Another major difference is that at Gymnasium, students elect 2-3 “majors” which they focus on for the last 2 years of Gymnasium and take comprehensive ~4 hour long examinations prior to graduation that cover everything they have learned on the subject in the previous 2 years.
Hi, a couple points to note: 1) Hauptschule is basically extinct in most of Germany by now. Rheinland-Pfalz closed the last ones back in the 2010s. We now usually have, Realschule, Gesamtschule* und Gymnasium. 2) You will not sit an exam at the end of 4th grade. Rather the kids' main teacher (SHOULD be the same on grades one through 4) will wite an evaluation of their pupils' development so far and projected and give a recommendation as to which school they would best attend going forth. Choosing a school is not a done deal after grade 4: A) Grades 5 and 6 in any of the school forms are called "Orientierungsstufe" (orientation grades). This means that materials covered will not differ by too much between Realschule, Gymansium und Gesamtschule* (comprehensive school). Thus a child can easily switch if it turns out the evaluation/ initial placement was wrong till age 12/13. B) It is always possible to switch between types, either if a child over/underachieves or if they turn out to have a more practical (Realschule) or theoretical (Gymnasium) bend. The pupils will get additional lessons to catch up on what thes missed as required. C) If you finish Realschule or Hauptschule (in Bavaria) with good enough grades, you get the socalled "Quali" (Qalifikation für die Gymnasiale Oberstufe), which will allow you to go on in grades 11 through 13 at a Gymnasium and then on to uni. School does not usually realy end after grade 10: After finisching Hauptschue or Realschule wou will go on to vocational training. This is roughly split in half between practical work in an apprenticeship in a company and haf school at a publically organized trade/vocational school with a fixed curriculum. So you will usually be "out of school" at age 15 or 16, but rather go on with vocational schooling. Even if you originally learned a trade, you can still go on to uni: A) After finishing your apprenticeship, if you did well enough, you qualify to go on to university for courses related to what you trained in through your "fachgebundene Hochschulreife". B) You can always qualify for Abitur or "allgemeine Hochschulreife" later on, too. Be it through extra courses during your apprenticeship or after hours while working. The lessons are either free (during Berufsschule) or quite cheap if done paraööeö to work, usually via the Volkshochschule. *Gesamtschule is probably the closest you will get to "American style" education in Germany: All children ofare going to the same school from grade 5 to 10, independent of the reommendation of the Grundschule teachers. The individual courses are split between Basic level (G- or Grundkurs) and Extended level (E- or Erweiterungskurs). So you could be G-level in maths, but E-Level in German and Arts&Crafts, G in sports and so on. You are able to switch (or in extremis WILL be switched) from G to E or vice versa after each school year. The better pupils will qualify for Gymnasiale Oberstufe, others will leave with Reaslschul- or Hauptschulabschlusss. Those qualified will go through with their Oberstufe at the same school with the same teachers and class mates from grade 11 through 13 and get their abitur.
I spent my first 5 school years attending an American school in Germany and I was bored to pieces. Luckily at 11 years of age I persuaded my parents to let me attend a German Gymnasium and this turned my life around completely for the better! The education there was so much more challenging and versatile. Went on to study architecture in Germany and London after that. All in all I got a very good and well-rounded education without ever having to go into ridiculous amounts of debt. The reason why many university courses in Germany can actually focus more on the matter surrounding the student's major is that the Abitur already provides quite a high level of education regarding the so-called core subjects! University students can then focus almost solely on their major. Having said that, I studied in the 90s and our Architecture course took a good 6 years to complete if you wanted to keep your sanity. This course ended with a diploma in engineering. Back then there were no bachelor and master degrees yet for architectural studies in Germany. 😊
I live in NRW, my son didn't need to take any exams to go to 5th grade. We, as parents, and he decided in which type of school he wanted to continue his education, it is the grades that matters. In NRW there is a 4th type of school combining the three mentioned in the video: Gesamtschule. One can get any school certificate there including Abitur. Furthermore, in my Land even those students who don't do Abi and simply finish with Fachoberreife can study at a University if they accomplish their vocational education and work 5 years or will become a Meister title.
Same in Bavaria, only that parents get a RECOMMENDATION about which path of education their children should best follow. For many of them, this results in disappointment (or disillusion, maybe) because most people would like to see their children at a Gymnasium. However, as to my own experience and what I heard from the neighborhood during the years, the recommendations usually are correct. Many children whose parents didn't follow the teachers' advice and HAD TO go to Gymnasium by the wish of their parents soon found themselves back at a Haupt- or Realschule, which at that age, I think, must be quite a humiliating experience.
@@eisikater1584 Exactly, not getting a recommendation to Gymnasium isn't the end of the world. I have met kids who were literally pushed into Gimnasium by their parents and had to change the school to Gesamt- or Realschule where they had good grades, but less pressure. Not to mention that e.i. in Dortmund, where I live, there are Gesamtschulen with a higher level of education as some Gimnasien.
@@joannajaworska0000 Maybe Gesamtschulen put a little more effort into their teaching than some of the traditional Gymnasien? Although Gesamtschulen have been around for some decades now, they're still relatively new to the system and want to prove their value. I really was curious about them and would have loved to visit one, but a Gesamtschule? In the 1980s in Bavaria? You didn't even dare mention the word in school. Vade retro satanas! Go to the the GDR, you bloody communist!
In Hamburg and Schleswig-Holstein there is also a corresponding recommendation for the half-year of the 4th grade. Yes, many parents choose high school contrary to the recommendation and unfortunately some students then “fall” very quickly through the system to “ Hauptschul niveau” From our children's school days, we know of 4-5 children who attended Hauptschule at the end of the 7th grade because they went to the Realschule after the 5th grade and were no longer able to keep up with the pace of learning there.
Love the german school system. Many people forget that just because you get sent on one path after elementary school doesn't mean you can't change said path at the end or even in between. I am talking from personal experience. After elementary school my mom wanted me to go to a Gymnasium badly as my sister did the same and they wanted me to be at the "best" school. The teacher back then told me and my family they recommend the Realschule and not the Gymnasium yet my grades were good enough and my mom insisted so I ended up in Gymnasium. Surprise - the teacher was right and I was totally overwhelmed there and hated it. So at the end of the year I changed back "down" to Realschule and after my entire school life in the Realschule I ended up going to a "Fachoberschule" and did my "Abitur" there and therefore got the same qualifications as the children I went to school with in fifth grade in the Gymnasium, I simply took a different path. So I am the living proof that the system is not as bad and "unflexible" as people are saying. You are never stuck with one path and can always get higher in life with the german system even if you start "lower" in case you have to at a specific point in your life as a kid.
Ah yes... It's not like that this school system leads to depression for students at a young age, most of the kids get bullied and every 5th student self harms themselves.
@@Sy_zero sorry to hear that happened to you. I think those things happen everywhere regardless of school system unfortunately. From what little I can tell from your UA-cam channel's likes I can tell why that happened to you. It's unfortunate but many people still have a stigma towards people with such behavior and likes and it's not okay. I hope it will become better for you over time
@@Sy_zero how does this system enhance the chance to suffer under depression? if you compare it to other systems i wouldnt say that depression increases because of the existence of Hauptschule, Realschule, Gesamtschule and Gymnaisum. Depression at young age is a problem but how is directly connected to this matter?
“Surprise - the teacher was right and I was totally overwhelmed there and hated it.” That’s anecdata, though. I know of quite a few people whose elementary teachers advised against Gymnasium, citing (figuratively) you case as “they will hate it there and be constantly frustrated, until they switched school.” Guess what? They were decent Gymnasium pupils, pulling C’s and B’s without a lot of effort and later A's , when grades became important. I’m not against the three-tier system in general, but the selection is heavily biased, both by the elementary school teacher bias (though the majority means well, but than doesn't help, when the pupil in question doesn't have them as their teacher) and the parents’ social status, especially academic background and income. One study I'm aware of showed, that when parents went against the teachers recommendation against Gymansium, the chances of getting their Abiturs was only a few percentage points (less then 10, iirc) worse then those of who had a clear recommendation.
when I went to school in Germany we had a "Orientierungsstufe" for orienting what kind of school would be fitting for us. It was in 5th and 6th grade and after that we were divided in the 3 schools (Haupt-, Realschule and Gymnasium)
As someone who grew up in Germany, graduated with Abitur, and then studied at university in the United States, I can say that I'm so glad I went to high school in Germany. Based on conversations with friends in the US and my experience of college-level studies in the US, I am confident that I got a better education in Germany. One big difference that stands out to me is the love for multiple choice and standardized tests in the US vs the essay format tests in Germany. In my experience, your skills develop so much more when you have to write essays and illustrate what you’ve learned in the class in an open format, compared to having a 25-50% chance of getting it right in a multiple choice test. I was honesty shocked in college when I had to take tests with scantrons... To be fair, it may have to do with my choices of degrees and my educational development over the years, but I still say that taking my Abitur exams was the most difficult thing I had to do educationally. All that being said, I do think forcing a 4th grader to choose their future path at that age is pretty early. But it is worth noting that something you didn’t mention in the video is the ability to switch between school systems in Germany later on. For example, my sister graduated from Realschule, but then switched to Gymnasium to get her Abitur. So it might seem like a drastic choice in grade 4, but you do have some flexibility later on. Another point to consider, especially in a conservative state like Oklahoma, is the underfunding of public education as well as the influence/control that government has over education (e.g. book banning and curriculum changes). While the quality of German education has generally gone down since I attended Gymnasium (Germany just got their worst ranking in the PISA study), it is still much better than in the US. Plus your children wouldn't have trauma from active shooter drills or God forbid even have to experience one in Germany compared to the US. And to answer your random question, body wash 100%!
es ist aber auch wirklich schlechter geworden der Unterrichtsstoff von vor ein paar Jahren war viel umfänglicher jetzt nur noch das Minimum damit man die Klausuren bestehen kann
One small correction: if Kindergarten or KiTa (Kindertagesstätte) are free highly depends on the state and even on the town you are living in. It is not uncommon to have a fee for example based on the income of the parents or if a brother or sister already visits the Kindergarten.
You can start sending your kids to the kindergarden even earlier - usually when they are a year old (daynursery). They have different age groups there to divide them up. Since there is also the option of a year of staying at home with 70% of your pay (Betreuungs Jahr) - and you have the guarantee to return to your job after if you want
Kita oder Kinderhort are not free at all in our region except maybe for children of parents on social welfare money. It is cheaper if you have 2 or more children attending at the same time.
i have seen that there are so many videos by americans on this topic, but the thing they always fail to see is the social part of having three levels of high school. i (german) grew up watching american high school tv shows and was always shocked by the whole cool people vs. geeks dynamics. we don't have that. those groups end up in different schools and you are in a school with more or less like-minded people. which is really nice!
that was not really the case for me. I always thought it was weirs learning wise. I was already frustrated with my classmates in a few classes that they were to slow or too fast for me (in Gymnasium). Now imagine the range from Hauptschule to Gymnasium trying to learn the exact same thing. Some students will be bored out of thair minds while other just can't keep up.
We still had the “cool” and “geek” people dynamic in Hauptschule & Realschule at the beginning. But thru the years it mixed somehow. Don’t know how it is know. This was 15 years ago 😅
In some parts of Germany you dont take an Exam to determine which schools you will go to but the teacher will recommend a type of scholl but the choice will be up to the parents
And in Berlin (Like me) you Go to “Grundschule” from 1-6 Grade. Also we have “Gesamtschule” from 7-13 Grade, you can finish there after 10th grade or after 13th grade. It has one year more than a “Gymnasium” to have more time to learn the stuff you normally learn in 11th and 12th grade
Often in Germany your education and final jobs differ a lot. One of my sisters went through Gymansium and then started vocational school. The other one changed from Gymnasium to Realschule , did a vocational training, worked a bit and decided to get her Abitur before studying. I was the only kid taking the straight way - but I never ever worked one day in the subject I studied.
Another interesting education path in Germany is a combination of vocational training with a bachelor degree. Very popular at large industrial companies for engineering bachelors. This will provide the company with engineers which are actually skilled production workers.
Hi Donny! To finish Gymnasium, you need to learn at least two foreign languages (for me that was English and Latin). Lessons for the first foreign language (which on most schools is English) start in fifth grade, no matter on what type of school you are. From seventh grade on (in Realschule and Gymnasium) you can choose a second language, depending on the teachers available (my school had French, Latin and Spanish teachers). On Gymnasium, if you really love languages, you can learn a third one from 9th grade on, but that's not mandatory. To me it seems, that curriculum stuff in the US in completely covered by the schools in Germany. Greetings from Lübeck, Marcus
At my school, we were even able to learn 4 languages: English from 5th, French or Latin from 6th, again French or Latin (depending what you learned earlier) from 8th and Spanish from 10th grade.
In Switzerland (german part) you start with English in the 3rd grade and French in the 5th grade and this carries on until the 9th grade (for Real/Sekundarschule) or 12th grade (for Gymnasium). You can complement those individually (not mandatory) with Italian. Or if you take a specific major in Gymnasium you have to take Latin. When I was in the Gymnasium in the 80ties, there was also a major including Latin and Greek (in addition to French and English).
"Lessons for the first foreign language (which on most schools is English) start in fifth grade, no matter on what type of school you are." Not necessarily. I'm from NRW and had my first English lesson in grade 1. My older brother (4 years older than me) had his first English lesson in grade 3. Since you're from Lübeck, I suppose Schleswig-Holstein handles it a little differently.
Here is my perspective on the German school system, as a person born and soon to be studying in Hamburg: In elementary school, they've told me (or rather my parents) that I would not do well at the Gymnasium, so my parents chose to send me to the Stadtteilschule (Hamburgs flavor of Gesamtschulen, which combine Haupt- and Realschule in one school and in each class, but they sometimes have advanced and basic lessons, the student goes to one or the other based on individual performance). Come fifth grade, I was absolutely doing more than well at school. I would've had the opportunity to switch to the Gymnasium, but I didn't choose to do it, because I liked my classmates. After tenth grade I went to the Oberstufe of my Stadtteilschule to do my Abitur. Soon I will be taking my Abitur-Exam and after that I will go to university. And I will actually do my regular bachelor's in 4 years, because there are universities that combine vocational training (Berufsschulen) with university, with the caveat of taking one year longer to complete than usual, but in return you'll be IHK certified and have a degree. I will be almost exclusively taught things related to my degree, except for a bit more mathematics, the very basics of business administration and a bit of data protection law-stuff.
Young people who decide after the 9th or 10th grade not to continue going to school but to complete an apprenticeship must attend a vocational school. In this case, part-time or compulsory vocational schooling applies. This usually lasts 3 years, one day a week and therefore coincides with the completion of training. Accordingly, in most federal states, compulsory school attendance not only applies until the child's 18th birthday, but also applies at least for the entire remaining school year or until the end of training.
German University has been greatly devaluated by the introduction of the Bachelor and Master degree. Before that, the standard University time was 9 semesters, which is an equal to 4.5 years. Then you graduated with a diploma which is the equivalent of a Master's Degree nowadays. The Bachelor's degree that you get now is similar to the old "Vordiplom" which was basically a "half-way milestone" towards the Diplom.
A fail to see how or what was devalued. I started with diplom, and switched to Bachelor/Master voluntarily on the way. The "Vordiplom" used to be a worthless piece of paper, a formality. Now (with a bit added, as Bachelor), it's a proper degree you could leave university with and at least have something, instead of the all-or-nothing that was Diplom. Most importantly, it added some flexibility - at least where I studied. Instead of having to take mostly prescribed courses and seminars, there was now more choosing what interested you, or what you feel would be useful.
@@drsnova7313 so in other words, now you have thousands of people running around with a degree, who in reality only half finished their education and know nothing yet. so obviously it is easier on the student, but an average person with a university degree is less educated than in the past. this is how the world is going to shit. nothing means anything anymore. everything is random.
@@robopechaBut most of the time you wouldn't need a master. Besides you know a lot with Bachelor degree. Enough for a lot of jobs. In your future job you need to learn everything on top of all that. University doesn't make you know it all. And with the master you are technically over qualified since you have 6 semester Bachelor and 4 Master makes a total of 10. Which is above the 8-9 of a diploma. Most would need 12 to finish tho. This is 6 years. Not really easier or under qualified.
I can give you some insights here. Growing up in Germany and actually missing that German test at the end of fourth grade, because I counted the words of the dictation that the teacher was reading, thus I couldn´t go to Gymnasium. This was 30-40 years ago and at that time it was harder to switch to another school than it is today. However, later in live, I still was able to make my bachelor and master, as there are many ways to get there. Now, what is better? For a long time I hated the fact that I was not able to go to Gymnasium, however, I actually enjoyed to do a vocational trade as a communication specialist. After working for a while, you will have the same level as if you finished Gymnasium and are able to go to University. Comparing this now to the US, where I have 4 grand kids between 12 and 18 years, seeing what they learn, I can tell you that the German system is far more superior. When I see what they learn and how watered down it is, even compare to mine 40 years ago, I can cry. My brother has kids the same age in Germany and they are on a much higher level. I see what I can do with my German education in the US, compared to my US friends and families and there are worlds in between. Not only is it way cheaper in Germany, but because the kids are taught to be independent, after they graduate, they know what to do. If I would be you, get your kids through the German education system. And yes, in University you do not have to do all the stuff you don´t need. You are way more focused on your major.
What is really important to know: if a kid finishes Hauptschule or Realschule quite well, they can go on to Gymnasium. Also there are "Berufliche Gymnasium" (after 10th Grade), where you can also get your A-Levels. And: in some federal states like mine, Schleswig-Holstein, there are "Gemeinschaftsschulen" which educate everyone alltogether - I really like that because we look at each child seperately and they can decide on there own which way they want to go. Aaaand: my cousin went to Hauptschule in Bayern, because he was really lazy back then. Afterwards he finished Realschule, went to the Gymnasium and studied IT. Now he has been a high class Manager in various big german companies for the last 15 years. German educational system is NO one way track.
Gemeinschaftsschulen sound extremely funny to me. If I wasn’t aware of what you meant, I would think of a Waldorfschule. It’s just called Gesamtschule over here and until now I thought that it’s something that exists in all 16 Bundesländern. 😂
@@HopeeInk Seems like once again, the Bundesländer couldn't agree with each other :D I was quite confused when my husband told me he went to a "Stadtteilschule" (which is what Hamburg calls their Gesamtschule). NRW has Gesamtschule but there are also a few "Sekundarschulen" even though they aren't as common (which is like a Gesamtschule but only up to Grade 10, so you can get a "Hauptschulabschluss" or "Realschulabschluss" or a qualification to continue at another school for the "Abitur"...). Other states have "Oberschule" (which in some states only goes up to grade 10 and in others might have an option for Abitur as well).... And I probably missed some names... Way to make it confusing. But yes, let's just say: There are more integrated schools in Germany as well, but their name might differ, depending on where you are....
As a Oberschüler (mix of Haupt- and Realschule): A: I didn’t any test., my teacher just talked with my dad and that’s it. B: Just younger kids made fun of me for going to Oberschule. No adult ever cared. C: My dad went to a Hauptschule, his best friend to Gymnasium. My dad went to college, got some high paying jobs until he finally got a job at the government. His best friend went to university, didn’t finished his degree and is unemployed for like 10 years. Moral of the story: to wich school you go doesn’t necessarily mean what you do later in life
I go to a Gesamtschule that has the option to get a Hauptschulabschluss(9th grade), a Realschulabschluss(10th grade) or Abitur(13th grade) Also there is no big exam at the end of the 4th grade, you’ll get evaluated by your teacher and (for me at least) your parents can choose which school type you’ll go to
I'm Dutch, but the Dutch system sounds pretty similar to the German system (except that you typically get that test when you're 12). When I was in 5th grade, out of 6, in highschool (the type that would be called Gymnasium in Germany), we had a maths teacher from the US who came to give us a guest lecture. but he was shocked to learn that the things that we had already leant were considered university level in the US. So I think that due to the fact that pupils are separated in different levels, those things that are taught in those first 2 years of the US university bachelor are taught in highschool here. Bachelor is usually 1 year, sometimes 2.
Raising your hand in class is seen as more demanding "Take me, take me!", whereas raising a finger is more humble "I know the answer / have a question / have some thought about the topic, but only speak when allowed to."
I like our german school system. I grew up in NRW. You don´t take an "exam" at the end of 4th grade. Which school form you should go to is just generally advised by the elementary school looking at your overall grades at the end of year 4. I had a "Realschulempfehlung" but I still went to the Gymnasium. You don´t have to follow what is advised. For me that was definitly better because basically my whole class changed as just 3 other people went with me. The influence of the people/kids around you can be pretty strong. After finishing the Gymnasium with Abitur I still went on with vocational training and worked a few years. That was fun but after 4 years of working I was bored and started studying. My previous job gave me the direction of what I want to study which I definitly didn´t had after finishing high school. Now comes the important part: Everyone can go study no matter which school form they went after year 4. The only thing you have to do is get Abitur or Fachabitur which you can achieve through the vocational training system we have. During my bachelor I met someone that went to Hauptschule, vocational training +1 year extra school and as such could start studying at a Fachhochschule. With a "Fachabitur" you are only allowed to study at the "Fachhochschule" but you can change to an university after your bachelor for the master. I have a bachelor of engineering in "surface technology". We also had core curriculums in the first 2 years. For example everyone (at least in every science field) has to take math 1 and 2. Then I also had to take basic chemistry, physics and stuff like BWL (Betriebswirtschaftslehre). During my master in material science later on at a university I had to take 3 courses each in the categories of business/management and non-technical-courses (e.g. a language or fun courses like "Stereotypes of the scientists in pop culture"). I know of friends that they also had that during their bachelor at a university. But now we come to: Is it less worth? Definitly not! There was a video of Felicia (German that lives in the US) who went to a US university and was shocked on how lazy the bachelor programm there was. When studying science in germany for example the failing rate of students in the first two semesters is normally min. 70%. They don´t give a shit to keep you. Generally it´s: you either adapt fast, repeat a lot and study longer or just give up and start vocational training instead.
Even with Fachabitur you can study at Universities, but you are limited to your home state. At least in Hesse, I did it that way. After changing from Gymnasium to Realschule (due to health reasons), finishing with good grades, increasing to Fachabitur with the chance of an extra year after grade 12 to get the "standard" Abitur. I decided to leave school with Fachabitur and did a "Ausbildung" before studying. Since I wanted to study at home state Universities anyway (reputation, and friends experiences) I did not see a need for the extra year and it turned out good, finishing Master soon. I even had advantages in the beginning of Bachelor since Fachoberschule prepares for specific topics of work (for me it was 'health', preparing for medical assistance and nursing jobs).
having just finished my masters degree in electrical engineering fairly recently (3y) i can confirm that the standard curriculum (for engineering) contains at least one language course with english and french requiring at least b level while all other languages can stop at a level to count for credits. but this is because gymnasium usually means you should have at least b level in english and/or french because its part of the standard curriculum there to have one second language to the very end and sometimes a third by choice and usually thats english with french and spanish often being the only ones offered. you had the chance to do more of course to go all the way from not knowing a language to whatever level you like but one course was mandatory and for the masters degree you had to have proof that you are proficient in english b level or better and have taken a special technical english course that focused on engineering terms not normally used in conversational english the curriculum in university had like 15 credits mandatory in social/cultural side study which equals to 3 courses you had to take in your 7 semesters oh and yeah engineering degrees are usually 7-8 semesters including the thesis and often a practical semester. so 6 semesters theory 1 semester practice 1 semester dedicated to the thesis. (7 semester courses combine the practice and thesis in one semester)
In Germany, you are taught to use the index Finger to get the attention of your teachers, though I observed that it goes away in grades 10 to 11 and everyone only raises their hands. Or at least at my school thats the case.
1. You have a lot of options to still go to University in Germany after finishing Hauptschule or Realschule. So you don't really make a final decision about the kids future by choosing a school after 4. grade... 2. German "Abitur" is considered to be of a much higher eduacational value than the american High school graduation. I have heard that the german Abitur is more like an american Bachelor degree, so maybe that explains why it only takes you three years to reach a german Bachelor. My son is in University studying IT sciences, and he has to take one "Nebenfach" now in his 2. year, he could choose it, but as far as I know, there were restricitons, and definitely nothing like P.E. or Arts classes...
Same here in Switzerland. After 12 years you get the swiss "Matura" (comparable to "Abitur") I truly think the level of education is higher wrt highschool. Until "Matura" for e.g.: I teach my field "Physics" at "college physics" level for off topic pupils. For the ones taking a major in Physics/Maths I teach on a level "Physics for scientists and engineers" if you the the corresponding books from Giancioli as a reference. Therefore it is quite clear (besides that it is not required to take many non major topics) that at university level, the BA is reached after 3 years.
I’ve been almost 15 years in school and in all these years, we raised our finger, even in job education now. I don’t really have an explanation for this either, but I guess it’s just how we got taught on how to do it in elementary school or possibly even in Kindergarten. I imagine it is the same way almost every where else in the world: You learn it one way and then you just continue doing this for the rest of your school time.
students who raise their whole hand often -not always - do so in a very sloppy way that can be seen as disrespectful. Often they are just barely sitting in their chairs, then extend their hands to ask some annoying question or start a discussion about the necessity of school itself. "I'll just marry rich, so I won't need that" students who want to contribute sit straight and raise their hand or finger more orderly. Unfortunately it's not easy to make students see the difference between the two so what they often learn is to sit straight and raise a finger as opposed to waving a hand randomly and sloppily.
just two little additions from a German viewer. Over the course of Hauptschule/Realschule/Gymnasium you have the possibilities to switch schools if you wish. For my BA 100% of my classes were linked to my main subject, yes electives are possible sometimes but don't generally take up much space. Getting some "well rounded" is usually the idea of the last years in Gymnasium that forces you to have electives in every field of study and doesn't let you skip much at all.
So, I am a teenager in a german Gymnasium. I really have to say, that it´s, for me, extremly good that we "devide" by intelligence. It was always hard for me with kids in Grundschule, since they were way slower than me. Just to undserstand, I finished their whole work in 15 minutes. Now, that I am in a private Gymnasium, the people are actually on my level and I need the time that is given me. And I, personally, think, that that is absolutly amazing, since I love learning. I also heard from my friend, that it´s now easier for her to focus in school, because she went into a normal Hauptschule. So I am a true fan of the system. When it comes to homeschooling, I can understand your confusion, but I need to say, for me it makes sense as well. Kids who have been homeschooled have social problems more often than chirldren who went into a real school. So it´s like kindergarden just that it continues throughout your life, like social situatrions also continue throuhout the adulthood. I am sorry for my bad english, it´s not that amazing, I know, I just wanted to explain my experience with the german schoolsystem and I hope, that it maybe even helps you to decide :)
When I was in school in Austria, a gymnasium, the difference with the raised hands was simply that the raised index finger shows you know the answer or you have a question, while the fully raised hand meant you were asking for permission to go to the toilet, so the teacher could simply give you permission to go to the restroom by nodding or waving their hand, without having to say anything. At least that is how it was in my class. Also, as far as I am aware , there is a difference between the German (and Austria too) and the American word 'class'. From what I know, the American word 'class' is what in Germany and Austria would be called 'subject', while the German word 'Klasse' refers to the whole group of children. If I recall from my education when I learned about the US school system, pupils are not as much grouped together subject wise as German pupils. So in America, half a class could not take a class / subject on history, and instead take a class for physical eduction, just as an example. While in Germany and Austria, there is no splitting up. All students of one 'Klasse' take all the subjects together. First subject may be English, followed by German, followed by biology, then physics, etc. There is no opt-out, or even choices, at least during the first few years. In Austria in the so called 'Oberstufe' you have to choose a second language, most school offer you to choose between French, Italian or Latin. And then in the last two years of my school you had some optional choices for some classes if you wanted to deepen you knowledge for example in history. But aside that, pupils in Austria and Germany are bound into one group so to speak.
Generally, depending on your child's abilities and interests, it really does not matter which path you choose. Having said this, when your child finishes Hauptschule or Realschule and takes up vocational training, there is still the "zweite Bildungsweg" to achieve higher education later. There are also other options depending on your education to go to university or Fachhochschule in a later stage of your professional life. I admit, that many choices make it appearing more complicated compared to only one choice or two choices. Random question: Body wash, but I generally use the hair shampoo.
I went to gymnasium, my brother to Realschule and then Fachoberschule and we both went to university. He got a better job in the end. I felt bad, because he was smart enough, just not as much compared to my overachiever ass. But, he went the second Bildungsweg and it turned out well in the end. I don’t know in general, but for us, the system worked and corrected itself.
@@MarcLucksch This is so true. Same here in Switzerland. There is no "stuck in the path". Some are faster, some need more time. The system therefore is made that you are always in a path that suits you best (e.g. does not overwhelm or holds you back) and you can always switch between systems if you really want and put effort in it.
@@MarcLuckschI also did Realschule and then Fachoberschule. The 2 years FOS were really chilled for me, now I’m studying on a university of applied science. I noticed that we had some stuff in university (eg in math) which we didn’t had in the FOS, so that was then a little bit harder, but overall there is no noticeable difference between someone with Abitur and someone with „just“ Fachabitur
About the core curriculum classes: those aren't really a thing in Germany because it's considered to be the responsibility of the Gymnasiums, to give the students a sufficient general education. If you have to take any classes outside of your field of study solely depends on your usiversity and program. I as CS student had to choose a "minor" (about 8% of my classes), in a field related to computer sciences. Any other class I took was a CS class. In other degree programs at my university students might have to take 1-2 classes in an unrelated field, but that is usually it.
However, in some federal states there is also the "Gesamtschule". This is a combination of all types of school. And it is also important to mention that you can always change if you are good enough and so many people, for example, move from a Realschule to a Gymnasium and then go on to university.
It is not possible for a minor to quit education in every way before finishing 12. grade. When you finish Haupt- or Realschule you have to either take some classes outside the "normal" school system, change to another school or start some kind of "Ausbildung"(qualified 2 to 3 year time with work and school where you learn some kind of job)
I got recommended for Hauptschule, because Mini me was lazy af, but my parents sent me to Realschule where I finished school after class 10 with good enough grades to move on to Gymnasium and finished class 13 and moved on to University. So it is possible to go all the way even if the child took a longer time to get interested in learning etc. It was quite a bit of pressure in 4th grade, if I remember correctly. But many people put their children in Gymnasium even though they clearly weren't up to it and many moved down to Realschule after class 7 or 8. Some fehlt liberated, while others saw themselves as failures and that can have a huge impact on a child's psyche. In hindsight I think the way Realschule -> Gymnasium was a pretty good one, because were were taught a lot more pactical things you will need when applying for a job etc. or other general knowledge. Many kids who when the straight way were kind of left to sink or swim after they were done studying... because that was everything they have ever known. BUT there is the issue with bullying. We were 5 kids who went up to Gymnasium and I was the only one left in the end. Most of them were bullied and excluded and seen as someone lesser. Didn't happen to me, because I never talked about it and they just assumed I was from a different class. But quite a few teachers seem to have been in on it as well. So yeah... there is that. But, mind you, that happened almost 20 years ago. I hope people have become more open-minded since then. All in all I think the system is not bad, if you work with your child and talk to them they can have an education that suits their needs and abilities. But it is by no means without problems. Hope this helped a little :)
You graduated from "Gymnasium" so you already have that wider education. No need to do that in University. University ist straight to the chosen subject. As you have been with kids of a similar vocation since grade 5 you can speed up the process.
There’s also "Gesamtschule" which is one school that combines all three systems. So after 9th or 10th grade you can still do the Abitur. The main subjects have advanced and basic level courses. It’s the best system because it doesn’t put pressure on the young kids. I went to a "Gesamtschule" but I think not every state has them.
I disagree, as someone who recently finished school I can still feel the pressure that was put on myself by the Gymnasium I went to and it definitely cost me lots of sleep, but I think it's silly to avoid putting pressure on young children. They don't want to do whats good for them because they, being little children, have only very short sighted goals, they obviously don't see the bigger picture and if they want to play with their train set than they are going to play with that instead of putting pressure on them so they take school seriously and make something of themselves
The German school system offers a lot of opportunities to find the best path for you thanks to the many options for obtaining a higher qualification after finishing secondary school (Hauptschule, Realschule, Gymnasium) or even catching up as an adult. For example, I first completed the "Realschule" in Baden-Württemberg and then went to a "Kaufmännisches Berufskolleg" (a school specializing in economics) to get my entrance qualification for universities so that I could study - what I always wanted. I probably wouldn't have finished an path at a "Gymnasium" at all back then, as a lot of things are very theoretical there, which just doesn't suit me as well as the more practical approach of the combination of "Realschule" und "Berufskolleg".
For my computer science degree, there where 3 more general courses in my bachelor. A course regarding study organization, group learning and presentation. And then two math course. In the current curriculum it when up to 3 maths courses and one cs abd society class. There is 2-4 course choices where you can pick unrelated course. The gymnasium covers many parts of the first year in college in usa. Like English and a second foreign language, Central European history, ...
I went through the entire education system in Germany. Note that if you are recommended to go to a „lower“ middle school (which is anything but Gymnasium), there is the option to switch to Gymnasium if your grades are good enough. I switched to Gymnasium once I was done with Realschule and then went to University. So it doesn‘t necessarily mean that you are screwed when you don‘t go to Gymnasium right away. However, if you don‘t have a supportive family (e.g. you have to do your homework while your parents are fighting and your siblings are screaming in the background), the reality for most children is that they will never grade up to a better school. But children who lack these support systems probably would not be able to keep up with their peers there. I remember Gymnasium was actually more difficult than Realschule because they teach less practical but more conceptual, theroretical stuff. For example, while I got a deep dive into grammar (no matter which language) at Realschule, at Gymnasium they spent very little time on grammar but more on text analysis. If your family speaks broken grammar, you would need that grammar deep dive before being able to analyze texts and concepts but you won‘t get that at Gymnasium. Gymnasium is there to prep you for university and higher academics, Realschule is there to get you an apprenticeship (Ausbildung), so you can work your way up as an employee. Then there is also Gesamtschule which is kind of a mashup. If you finish with just Hauptschule, good luck finding a job even at Mc Donalds…
I'm Bavarian and went to Gymnasium after 4th grade. Here, the separation is quite strict. You receive an additional school report for the Übertritt. Depending on your grade average the following school is advised. If your parents still wanna send you to Gymnasium there is the possibility of have "trial out lessons". Here there are also many parents sending their kids to Realschule although the grades were good enough for Gymnasium, thinking it might be easier. In 11th grade I spent a high school year in Indiana and I have to say that the curriculum was very interesting as there are so many possibilities to choose from and I don't think the lessons were too easy or boring, just the tests were. In some subjects I had problems because my vocabulary wasn't good enough but still it is possible to receive good grades. I think at Gymnasium you better learn how to study, memorize and transfer problems in order to solve them. After returning I could continue with 12th grade, Abitur after 13th grade as 11th grade was a time to sum up a little bit. Just in Maths there were topics missing I had to catch up on my own. Kindergarten not free here!
I am a teacher in a Gymnasium in Bavaria and honestly I could not imagine teaching a class without previous selection by aptitude. Even within the Gymnasium, the education is usually focussed around the middle thrid of students. The top achievers will be held back or are even bored which kills their motivation, and the weaker ones are struggling to keep afloat. With this gap even wider, I don't know how this is supposed to work out. There is also always the option to swich schools and many students who struggled in Gymnasium bloom in Realschule. Also the schools put very different focus on their education. Hauptschule (or Mittelschule as it is called now in Bavaria) focuses on crafts and trade and even has classes about stuff like woodworking, cooking or household, Realschule focuses on trade and accounting skills with a bit of sciences and Gymnasium puts full focus on science, political and social education and higher education in general. In grade 12/13 they even have to write a 20 page scientific thesis like they would be expected in university. Edit: I know nothing about the american university system, but to me it seems like a lot of the stuff in the "Core Curriculum" of universities to achieve a higher, rounded education happens in germany already in Gymnasium. In university, with the exception of "Allgemeine Schlüsselqualificationen" (general key qualification), which the students can pick very freely (I did mostly stuff I could use for my degree (teacher for geography and chemistry) like geochemistry, hydrology, stratigraphy or toxicology, but I also took a spanish class) and they make up only a small part of the curriculum, everything else is focused on the major they are attaining. University curriculums are also not very strict in germany. For once you can freely pick the order in which you want to complete the so called modules and even within them, especially when it comes to more specialized modules, students can also pick from a wide range of courses. In geography for example I had to do the module "Geographische Arbeitsmethoden" (geographic working/research methods) and we could pick two of either from geomaterial analysis, rock microscopy, quantitative regional analysis, qualitative regional analysis, remote sensing, and some more.
8:00 No, you don't take an exam, it just depends on your grades. If you have good grades you go to the "Gymnasium" (finish after 13 years), if you have average grades you go to the "Realschule" (finish after 10 years) and if you have bad grades you go to the "Hauptschule" (finsh after 9 years). It's not really complicated.
I did Grundschule 4 years, Orientierungsstufe 5-6 grade , Realschule 7-10th, Wirtschaftsgymnasium 11-13th and then studied law ( no unrelated classes just law classes from year 1 )
RQOTW: Both, I don't care. What I care about is the ph-level though. You don't take a general exam in 4th grade to determine the school path. The whole 4th grade is an "exam year". The class will consider grades and abilities (or aptitudes) and recommend one of the three pathways. Parents can follow this recommendation but in most states, they decide which school their child will go to. There are still a few states that require entry exams- but only for children who want to pursue a "higher" school than what was recommended by their class teacher. This can be stressful for students but only if their parents or in rarer cases they themselves pressure the students to get into Gymnasium at any cost. I didn't feel any pressure in 4th grade because there was no one who would pressure me. 4th grade was exactly the same as 3rd grade with three additional tests - one was an IQ test with a heavy emphasis on math, logic, and spatial thinking (e.g. there is a cube with a different color on each side - which shape will you get when you cut the cube at the edges), the second one was a knowledge quiz, the third one was a language test- we would listen to sounds or sequences of sound and had to mark the letters or sequence of letters that best represented what we'd listened to. These were the first multiple-choice tests I had ever encountered and my school was the only one in our district who presented these tests. It's mostly the parents who stress their children. But if the pressure is too high, you're not cut out for Gymnasium anyway as the speed with which you're pushed through Gymnasium can be cut-throat. I had a friend who desperately wanted to go to Gymnasium (to please her father) but her teacher recommended Realschule for her. So she took the entry exam, passed the exam, and we were bench neighbors in 5th and 6th grade. By then she was so stressed out (and had so bad grades) that she'd either had to do 6th grade a second time or leave school. So she left for Realschule and afterward, she came back to Gymnasium for Oberstufe (grades 11-13). What American children learn in 13 years of K-12 and 2 years of undergrads is taught in German schools in 14/15 years (G8/G9) as university only requires you to study your majors. All the core subjects of freshman and sophomore years are taught in Gymnasium. So, really we get 3 years of education for a bachelor, whereas American students only get 2 years but pay for 4.
On the Hauptschule/Realschule/Gymnasium-Topic: please be aware that you can always switch (depending on your grades). I finished Realschule after 10 years and then switched to Gymnasium and finished after 12th grade. And for me it's usually bodywash, unless I'm traveling. A bar of soap just saves space and weight. 😉
I think the reason why children in Germany raise a finger is because raising a finger is interpreted as "I know it", sometimes even in a non-school context (in that case without raising the arm), whereas raising a whole hand is more likely to mean "Here, I need attention", and this attention is not necessarily related to a question being asked. So if 15 children all raise a finger, but one raises a whole hand, the child with the hand will stick out and the teacher will immediately see that someone might have a different problem and not just want to answer the question. Even someone who has never attended school would intuitively raise a hand to draw attention to themselves, but raising a finger is something that children have to be taught explicitly and is therefore associated with an explicit intention: You want to answer the question, raise a finger. As a child, I wasn't explicitly told not to raise my hand at school, nor was I told to raise my hand in certain situations, I was just told: if you have a question or want to answer a question, raise a finger. In other words, if you raise your hand, it's not for these two reasons, because you should have raised a finger for these two.
As a German, I can say, if you‘re on a Realschule or a Hauptschule, and you finished 9th (and/or) 10th grade, you can always go to a gymnasium afterwards to graduate and then go to university.
Hi Donnie, things have changed quite a bit since I went to school and later to university. I actually had to do an exam in 4rth grade which was supposed to determine the type of school where I'd continue my education. But even then - 1970ies - I could switch from Realschule to Gymnasium repeating 5th class volutarily to catch up with maths. BTW, you've left out another type of school eligible after Grundschule: Gesamtschule where each subject is offered in several different courses of different degree of intensity/difficulty. The original idea of Gymnasium was to prepare pupils for continuing their education on an academic institution, eg university or a polytechnical school. However pupils can get a certificate after 5 or 6 years on Gymnasium too which isn't equivalent to an Abitur certificate however. The German bachelor and master degrees are harmonized with a european scheme of academic education. It was originally supposed to facilitate moving to another academic institution with getting your accomplished courses recognized in a standardized way. Yet, I don't know how well that's actually working. I've heard of people having problems at changing between universities in Germany already. Before that scheme of bachelor and master degrees was introduced German academic institutions didn't provide bachelor degrees. The lowest academic degrees were either master or diploma, and the standard set of courses plus final paper required 5 years attendance at an academic institution. In the 1980ies graduates from Germany often experienced difficulties in getting their academic education recognized abroad. At first several German institutions, eg. embassies, industrial and administrative interest groups tried to advertise for German degrees. But then they decided to tackle the issue on a european level leading to the present degrees of bachelor and master - which are recognized all over the EU (theoretically at least). Another goal was allowing students to receive a certificate of academic education sooner than the old system allowed. Hence a bachelor is supposed to be finished after 6 semesters, ie 3 years. A master should be doable in 4 semesters / 2 years. In contrast to the US system subject matter seems to be focussed more on the main subject of study. A student could get additional credits for a language learned but I doubt that some sports activity would create additional points for a bachelor in say electrical engineering. Particularly during the 1990ies most German business associations were putting some presure on politicians to work towards lowering the average age of entering professional life for academics. Hence there's a some reservation about activities being recognized which aren't obviously related to a subject studied.
The one Thing you have to add to the school system ist that you still can advance from Hauptschule at Grade 9 to a realschule or even the Gymnasium and when you get into a Job as a Trainee you will Visit a Berufsschule where you will learn Most Things about your Job. Its Not the end of the Line. And there are still different classes of different subjects Like english with a Basic and an advanced class.
Not to mention Berufsoberschulen, that you can attend after you've finished an apprenticeship, and that allow you to graduate with Abitur - the same degree that students of a Gymnasium get.
@@leDespicableyea true. In the end its Not that easy as shown. And you can Go down aswell. If you cant keep Up with the Gymnasium you can drop to Realschule. Or Just quit at Grade 12 and get an realschule degree.
The only Thing that fucks this whole system Up is that every Bundesland has its own Style of how they define this system. In some "Abitur" ist after 12 years. In Others after 13years. Some are Harder to get in the First place. Thats the biggest issue. And sorry for My rough english 😂
Regarding university, the difference is that Abitur is where you already have your well rounded education so you can then start specialising at university. There is Optionalbereich (optional classes) or whatever your university might want to call it. While which classes you take tends to be up to you, you have to gain a certain amount of credits in via those classes to finish your degree. Your average 3 year bachelor degree requires 180 credits (ECTS) in total with usually about 100-110 in your major and 50-60 in your minor, with around 20 credits for the optional classes. Those can be language classes, something from a different subject altogether, classes which teach you about studying better (I took one about good library and internet research, which included a lot of about evaluating sources, so highly useful) etc. In some degrees, espcially ones where you just have one major and no real minor, the Optionalbereich might be more restricted. Generally, the idea is that it gives people a chance to look what exists outside their main fields of study. Depending on the rules you can also use it to gain good grades and push your average a bit, which I did by taking a beginner Spanish course after having Spanish as an Abitur subject. There was no rule against it and I got a good amount of credits with great grades for basically zero work. It's always good to also check the requirements of those classes because some can be insane and demand as much work as a core subject of your major while giving you a fraction of the credits
11:18 I'm a German and have gone to school and studied in Germany. After the Grundschule I went for Realschule because as you described I wasn't a very fast or generally good learner. After finishing my 10th grade I opted for continuing my school career and went to a Technisches Gymnasium (which is a Gymnasium specialized on technology). This gave me the option of going to university/college afterwards because I had the schooling necessary for it. Generally there are options for people that want to continue there schooling because as you said the different choices after 4th grade are more so to separate people with different learning abilities. My brother went to Gymnasium right after 4th Grade and when I compare my schooling to his, I am very happy with what I ended up with.
The core curriculum is probably more or less done already at the gymnasium. And even if you start with Mittelschule it is not said, that you could not upgrade to another school when the pupil is doing well. At least that is the case in Austria.
Fun fact about difference 2: in Austria, the last year of kindergarten is called pre-school and attendance is mandatory (unless you apply for a special exemption, usually for health reasons). So while you can send kids to Kindergarten from the age of 2.5 or 3, you can also opt not to do so, but they will have to start attending Kindergarten the year before they are old enough for school. School age is if you turn 6 before the 1st of September, so a kid with a birthday in September might start Kindergarten just before their 6th birthday and attend pre-school in Kindergarten. Then there's an assessment of whether kids actually meet the requirements for school (fine motor skills, language skills, social skills) and if they don't, they might be put into a pre-school class in school as well before moving up to first grade. So a child may have two years of pre-school (one in kindergarten, one at school) before going to first grade at nearly 8, or they might go to kindergarten (with integrated pre-school) and then go straight to first grade when they're 6 years old. It's a bit confusing.
It's really not that hard to go to university, even if you choose the "Hauptschule" path. You can redo the required "Abitur" as an evening course. While it was not without effort for me to do it next to my trade school, it was definitely doable :)
Oh congrats on that, I heard that Abendschule is a nightmare, because the requirements are way harder than on normal Gesamtschulen for example. & Wenn ich an mein Gymnasium denke, die haben echt jeden Idioten das Abi hinterhergeworfen.
9:25min : YES it is a class system, and yes some ppl are very stressed because of those choices, but as one as me who started hauptschule finished the realschule and then went and done gymnasium, I think that parents and teachers should preassure the students too much as nearly any path is possible. For the class system, it sadly is true, as in my experience the different kinds of schools can look down on each other’s, were the Hauptschule obviously gets most of the hate, as they are the bottom tier. Ye its fun
You can always easily and without extra costs do the higher education after finshing a lower one. So its not uncomon that people that did Realschule will also be able to study in university by just adding one to 3 extra years before that.
School system in Germany: Not static as you have multiple opportunities to change from one school type to another depending on your performance/ambition etc. Duration of school years: 12 years mandatory even for Hauptschüler who will have to go to " special" schools depending on their apprenticeships. We have a dual educationship for apprentices where the practical part is at your place of work for circa half of the week and theoretical education at the "Berufschule". You might even get your qualification at a special school within 3 years. I am a Realschullehrerin in Baden-Württemberg and a lot of my students went on to study via Technisches/Hauswirtschaftliches oder Wirtschaftsgymnasium which were especially created for Realschüler. Unfortunately we have 16 different schoolsystems with some Bundesländer vouching for a higher level ( Sachsen,Ba-Wü,Bayern) and some with,well ...... .
Good summary of our school education system. One thing to mention: You dont really have to choose your way of schooling when you're nine years old. There are a lot of comprehensive school which include all paths. Additionally you can change your path whenever you want. Lets say you choose "Realschule" and completed 10th grade. If your marks are good and you decide to go on, you can go to a Gymnasium for another 3 years to get the Abitur.
One thing you should keep in mind when thinking of the different school paths: It is possible to move from one path to another (though not very common), so if someone is caught in the wrong path this can still be fixed.
German educational careers are not always straightforward. I barely made it to gymnasium from 4th grade, then failed repeatedly in 8th grade after having been bullied for years. Went to realschule where my classmates were more mature. Attended realschule through grades 9 and 10, obtained "Mittlere Reife" with all A-grades, went on to 11th grade gymnasium, obtained Abitur with A- rating after grade 13. Then had to do obligatory public service which had me forget some things and kinda pushed me into depression. Tried studies in physics afterwards but lost ambition. Then studied cultural science up to a point where i realized it would not generate an income for me. Then became a woodworker. I am now a guy who does high-quality renovation of his own home, equaling a 50$/hr income. As a hobby i do educational and journalistic work in the fields of rocket science/aerospace tech, renewable energies, industrial history and politics. Guess it qualifies as a "broad education" .
I read through the comments first just to well, not repeat everything that was already said but also in hopes of someone telling me if i forgot about a test after 4th grade xD. I did not, i remember being evaluated by how you did during 3rd and 4th grade and even having a full one on one parent teacher talk about what school to send me on after. I am lucky to live in a place where we had the choice between all the school types available (in Rheinland-Pfalz btw ;)). Back then besides Haupt-. Realschule and Gymnasium we had a "Regionale Schule" (Haupt + Real with an optional full day system which meant I'd stay in school for lunch, did my homework there and had extra curricular classes), and a IGS (Integrierte Gesamtschule which has all three Schools). The Regionale Schule doesn't exist anymore, it was transformed to a Realschule Plus first and later into an IGS. I personally like the system because it is easier for children to switch to higher forms of education if e.g. they started at "Hauptschulniveau". Also children have to stay in school for 10 years by law so even if you only finish Hauptschule you need to add at least one more year. Then of course theres the "Duales Ausbildungssystem" which is most common for apprenticeships. You either have Blockunterricht, which means you have several days or weeks of school at once and then practice weeks at the company, or you have a mixed system where you e.g. work three days and go to school two days. And like many others I went on to finish a "lower" education in the Regionale Schule on Realschullevel, then went to a "Berufsgymnasium" which was part of a "Berufsschule" where I did my Abitur with a course focus on economies and business studies (I have a full, regular Abitur. There is also a type of Abitur where you need to work for a year in a related job before its valid called "Fachabitur") and then did an Apprenticeship. And now, after seven years of working experience I am studying in a field unrelated as to what I worked in. Germany gives you a ton of opportunities with a lot less pressure than other countries have, especially socially!
In Germany you have multiple ways to change from one path to another. My sister started at Gymnasium, but couldn't cope with the speed, so she changed to Realschule. After finishing, she made an apparenticeship at a bank and then got a job at a bank. But now she realized that she wanted to go to university, so she took evening school parallel to work and made Abitur (the Gymnasium degree you need for university). Then she studied theology and became a pastoral associate in a small town, after some years director of faith formation in a larger city. Now she is head of a catholic retreat house.
My guess about the finger is as follows: Since I am an old lady I grew up with the index finger mode. And it had been like this for ages. I don't think there is a special reason or plan behind the fact that nowadays some kids simply raise their hands without the index finger - it may happen due to the fact that we have welcomed a lot of refugees from different countries. And when their kids visit German schools they may just do it like they did in the countries they lived before. If the index finger wasn't a thing there, they will still do it like they were used before. But that is only my very subjective assumption. Though I am absolutely sure it has nothing to do with the Nazi salute. Btw. "raising your hand" in German is called "aufzeigen" which I would literally translate with "to point upwards".
I went to school in the 70s and 80s and even back then, the Aufzeigen gradually turned into a lazy raised forearm with a tired whole hand, the older and cooler you got 😅
@@AP-hr3qm Yes, I remember this! "(sich) melden" was the most common term in my region but it also went from eager snapping (which was sometimes forbidden because enervating) to raise only the forearm and let the elbow rest on the desk...:D
@@AP-hr3qm maybe it was also a region thing. I left school in 1978 and there were no schools in my area where the index finger was not involved. Changes come slowly.... maybe it began in your region.
The German Abi or Fachabi cover the general classes/core classes. That’s why you don’t have to take those at the University. That’s also the reason why a high school diploma is not viewed as “Hochschulzugangsberechtigung” means you have to take a bunch of classes before being accepted at a German University.
i did not take ANY classes in University that were not directly related to my elected major. Then again, i graduated Gymnasium in 85. Things may have changed? Either way, here in the US you learn how to write an essay, etc. stuff we learned in gymnasium. Math remedial in mechanical engineering was "reviewing" trigonometry, calculus, etc. we already learned in Gymnasium. 2 months in they felt that was enough and started "new material". i had learned both by 10th grade. ultimately i changed majors to languages, which suited me much better. so for me Abitur was definitely meant "hochschulzugangsberechtigung". Abitur in Bayern, University in Baden-Wuerttemberg
About the "raising one finger" thing: We were expected to only raise our index finger up to tenth grade, after that, it was our one thing. However, people made comments when you used the "wrong" hand (right -> bad symbol), same thing in driving lessons. It's not that people assumed you were a n*** (most off the time you don't think about which hand to raise an right handed people tend to raise the right one), however there always are stares and a bitter taste
The unrelated classes for a bachelors you mentioned are all classes I already had to take at the Gymnasium and students who switched from a Realschule also had to take additional language courses if they opted out of it in Realschule. In my Computer Science bachelors we did repeat some math we did in the last years at Gymnasium, but that was just a recap of like 2-3 weeks to get everyone to the same level and anyone who couldn’t understand these foundations (which were mandatory in school, but not everyone still knows topics from 2 years ago by heart) had to learn them in their free time. In my experience, every subject that awards credit points is tied to your degree and you don’t have a lot of variation to choose. The Masters degree is where you really focus on a specific topic. Before we adopted the bachelors and masters we had a diploma. Instead of 6 semester bachelor and 4 semester master programs we did 4 semesters „pre“ diploma for the foundation of the major and another 5 to finish the diploma in the specific field. The bachelors degree gives very little on hands experience compared to a classical 3 year apprenticeship and is sometimes looked down upon, because you still have to train these bachelors for the specific job (although they should adapt very quickly) and they demand more money as well. The masters degree is what is comparable to our traditional higher education, with the bachelor’s having a weird spot in between.
I'm in Austria, and it's slightly different to Germany, but here how schools work in Austria. After primary school (1.-4.) you either go to the Mittelschule (formally known as Hauptschule) or Gymnasium. The difference is not intelligence or aptitude (or not always) but simply the fact, that you only get a Gymnasium in larger cities. Living out in the countryside the closest Gymnasium is nearly 40min away with public transport, whereas we have the choice of multiple different Mittelschulen within 15min driving distance. Every Mittelschule (or at least most of them) come with a special focus. The one my kids are attending comes with a music focus. Kids learn instruments in class and learn to perform in an orchestra (all of this is free!). And Mittelschule have 2 levels for the main subjects (German, Maths, Englisch) - Gymnasium Level and Standard level. You could be in Gymnasium Level for example Maths and English and in Standard in German. This gives every kid the level they need. After Mittelschule (5-8th grade) you can either go on to Gymnasium for the grades 9-12. or a bunch of other higher qualification school which end with A-Level /Matura (such as HAK, HTBLA, Hotelfachschule and others) or you go and do an apprenticeship. Usually an apprenticeship gives you the option to do your A-Levels (Matura) alongside the physical job you are doing, which then again gives you the option to go to University if you like. Gymnasium is a very strict and for my liking to rigid system that "breaks" a lot of young children. Mittelschule gives kids more freedom and time to grow up. I myself went to a Hauptschule / Mittelschule, then did my A-Leves in a HTBLA and now I'm enrolled in Uni (in my thirties). Uni: Bachelor only 3 years without classes that have nothing to do with my studies
I'm also an Austrian. I want to say there is 9 years of Plichtschule (9 years of school duty that you have to do). Also you have to give your child to Kindergarten at the age of 5 years old at least half a day. Kindergarden: 1-6 years (yes, some kids are only 1 year old; the average kid goes to kindergarden around 3 years old; depends of course the parental / money situation) Vorschule (preschool): 1 year (usually at completet 6 years of age) Primary School: 4 years (usually 6-10 years at age) Then there are two ways you kid can go: - Mittelschool (Middle School, formerly Hauptschule "Secondary School"; in Austria there are no Hauptschule anymore since school experiment "Middle School" has been more successful since it combines Hauptschule with Gynmasium): 4 years or: - AHS Unterstufe (also continues as Gynmasium at the third grade; so it's kinda the same thing): 4 years AHS is Allgemeinbildenge Höhrere Schule aka known as General secondary school. And it means it's the Lower level. Since there is also a higher Level. Then there is more seperation: - AHS Oberstufe (Higher Level): 4 years. Though some have 5 years since orignally Gynmasium has 9 years and endet, so some offers 5 years with Matura (Abitur in Germany). So it can vary! - Berufsbildende Mittlere Schule (Vocational education school): 5 years with diploma Matura (Abitur) (there are three different types of schools: technical secondary school with different focal points like bioengeenier, chemical, civil engineering, programming ect. also known as HTL/HTBLA; with 3 years in same job you can earn the title "Engineer"; the other one is Handelsakademie / Commercial Academy known als HAK with also 5 years and Matura at the end; or HWL also known as Höhere Lehranstalt für wirtschaftliche Berufe or Higher educational establishment for economic professions with focals points like Computer science and e-business or Marketing; it's also 5 years with Matura at the end) - Fachschule: 4 years (like Leatherdesign) - Handelsschule / Commerical School: 4 years - Polytechnische Schule or known as Poly / polytechnic school: 1 year (to fullfull the 9 year duty school!). It's more job oriented. - Apprenticeship: 2-4 years (usually after 9 school duty years; so some do it after Poly) to get a job. Usually 1-2 days a week is school the rest they work in their company. Since they work they get tuition fee. With each year the money they get increase! After 3 years they can do apprication qualification test from the local Chamber of Commerce to get the Gesellenbrief. If they pass the test they're now offical "Geselle" and can work in their field as such. To get "Meisterbrief" they only need to be of age and have the apprication qualification. They need to successfully master all 5 moduls to get the "Meister" title. They are now Master craftsmanship, can have an own buisness in their field and will get a seal of approval "Meisterbetrieb". If they don't want to be "Meister", they also can go to Kolleg, get Matura and can study! Of course, if they want to. (aka known as Aufbaulehrgang) - formerly there where Social school for nursery with 5 years to get to Matura. This has changed many years from now. Now it's like this: 1 year for Pflegeassistent (nurse assistent), 2 years for Pflegefachassistent (some as nurse assistent though you have more responsible tasks like EKG, place gastric tubes or place a catheter in the woman; and you're allowed to instruct students); If you want to be a nurse you need 3 years Bachelor (Bachelor of Science); 2 years Master for Health Management / Nursing science. It's changed to get the same global status as other countries. It's also much easier for Nurses to get into other countries if the want to. (though this doesn't help the care shortage; it actually made it worse now since you need to have Matura and study. And usually students with Bachelor don't want to stand next to a sick patient; they want to get more into the mangement.) After that there are other schools / things you can to: - Aufbaulehrgang: 2-3 years (usually after Apprenticeship for higher education) - Kolleg / college: usally 2-3 years (so 4-6 semesters); mostly evenings and can be part-time so people can work too! Mostly are for Berufsreifeprüfung / Vocational qualification exam with Matura to attend University. There are also known as "Abendgymnasium" (evening gymnasium) - Second educational path - University / Fachhochschule: 3 years Bachelor, 2 years for Master or Magistrat / some need 2 more semester also it can vary from study course (can be attend at University or Hochschule /College; the difference is that Hochschule is like school. You don't have to register in different lectures since it has a strict schedule; in University you have to see where/when to register to lectures and you have to look that you have all the lectures you need for the exam. For both you have to be present for the number of hours in somce lectures in different subjects. So Hochschule = stiff / no rome for you own shedule; University = more room for own shedule; you have to look for everything you need). For university of Fachhochschule you need Matura (Abitur) that you obtained either in AHS Oberstufe /HTL/HAK or Kolleg. Without it you cannot study. - after that there is like in medicine "Facharzt" (like a medicine specialist for ears; teeths and so on). You have to do the basis education for Allgemeinarzt (general practitioner), than 9 months in a hosiptal as Turnusarzt (rotary doctor) to apply for Facharztausbildung: 4-6 years. Usually it takes here in Austria for a Mastermedical student to apply for Turnusarzt around 1-2 years since there are not that many open places. - Akademien: (thought the word is not lecally proceted they are under public law. Can therefore by applied to all possible research, teaching and training institutions; there are like Sommer-, Military- or Sportakademien; State academies are usually free except for the required materials, private academies can also charge tuition fees.) Also a few more things: 1. yes, homeschooling is also illigal in Austria 2. University is free. Mostly. Though yes, you have to pay an Studienbeitrag (tutition fee) if you need more semester than you normally would. For bachelor it's 6 semester plus 2 extra semesters tolerated. So if you need 9 semesters, you have to pay. For masters you have to tolerated extra semesters per section. So for studying Law: Section 1: 2 semesters + 2 tolerated semesters Section 2: like above Section 3: like above This is only for EU citizens. And Swiss and EWR (European economy citizens). For not EU citizens you have to pay. Sorry to say this. Also you have to pay for utensils and books that you need. So free, but not really. Many books are in university libaries or in book libaries. Vienna book libary card for a year costs around 30 euros. But some books are not available or you have to wait a long time. So times, yes you have to borrow it elsewere of buy it. So don't wonder if Austrian students have more than one Bachelor or Master :) 3. For Fachhochschulen it's not free. You have to pay tutition fee and ÖH-Beitrag (it's a service for Austrian students who study at Fachhochschule). It's around 400 euros per semester. So for six semester it is 2,4k euros (for Backelor) and for four more semesters ur's 1,6k euros (for Master). It's not that much, though for a student it might be. So no wonder some students live in WG (shared apartment) or at the parents. Usually the tutition fee is on the beginn of the semester to pay. And if you're not EU/EWR/Swiss Citizen you also have to pay extra deposit 200 euros if you enrolled online for Fachhochschule. 4. When I studied Computer Science I also had a few unrelated classes at Fachhochschule. Like psychology or buisness management. Though I thought they were interesting and I didn't mind.
@moonchild: Ich wollte meinen Text einfach nicht zu lange machen. Meine Auflistung startet erst bei der Schule, KiGa habe ich einfach mal weggelassen. Aber klar, ein Jahr KiGa ist ja Pflicht in Ö. Auch das mit der 9. Klasse vor Lehre habe ich weggelassen, einfach um den Text kurz zu halten ;) Gleich wie die zig- Variationen die du noch aufgelistet hast... stimmt alles, aber wie gesagt, mein Kommentar diente eher einem groben Überblick und der Feststellung, dass man nicht nur mit Gymnasium ein Studium starten kann, sondern, dass jeder Bildungsweg, wenn man will, zum Studium führen kann :) Dein Kommentar zeigt dann noch die ganzen feinen Details auf :)
@@moiragores1226 Ich wollte nur klar machen, dass vieles was in Deutschland gibt anders ist als hier in Österreicht. Das viele Dinge anders heißen. Oder die es gar nicht gibt, wie HTL oder HAK. Ich finde deinen Beitrag in Ordnung, doch ich wollte noch mehr in Detail gehen! :) Für diejenigen Lesern unter uns - egal ob deutschsprachig oder nicht - den Unterschied gerne sehen würden. Besonders mag es interessant sein, wenn man nicht aus Österreich kommt, sondern aus Deutschland oder Schweiz. PS: Außerdem unser eigenen Schulsystem variert zwischen Land und Stadt. Du hast von Land erzählt, ich erzähle es eher aus der (Haupt-)Stadtperspektive. Und da gibt es sowas wie Level-A nicht, zudem in Wien heißen HTBLA nur HTL ;)
@@Moonchild0 Oh ja das stimmt, die Unterschiede zwischen DE und Ö sind teils echt groß. Habe viele deutsche Freunde die erstaunt über die Bildungsvielfalt hier in Österreich sind. Wir haben hier definitiv ein breiteres Spektrum!
You can switch between all 3 Systems. And even if you fuck it up at fourth Class it’s not really a Problem. Actually you can go back to school after apprenticeship in Most Bundesländer And there a schools where you can take courses of the same subject with different difficulties (IGS) so it’s really really open if you are a little bit of a late bloomer😂 You can take unrelated Courses in University but most people don’t.
Not sure where the expression came from - but the expression may be a part of it - in the US you say "raise your hand" - in German the word is "aufzeigen" which would translate to "point up", and the index finger is the one you use in pointing... At least, from primary school in Germany, I don't remember ever specifically being told "only point up one finger". Though, keeping it that way might have the advantage to draw attention: picture seeing a person some 30 m away from you, if they have a hand up, you might think they're waving at someone; if they point up that's more drawing attention. If someone knows the history of "aufzeigen", that might be helpful here.
Raise arm with 1 finger, request for attention, raise arm with 2 fingers, request for bathroom break. Many European countries have the differentiated schooling system based on skills/aptitude. There is always the option to move between the school types.
As a German teacher, I find the "raise two fingers" for the bathroom is interesting, but I've never heard about it or seen it in any of the schools I've worjed at.
In germany it is a litle more complicated than this. The Gymnasium is a little more complicated than the Realschule but you can still quit Gymnasium after 10th grade. You just wont have your Abitur. Realschule goes to 10th grade and then you can decide if you want to go to Gymnasium to finish Abitur or if you want to quit. Also after 4th grade in Grundschule you wont take exams or something to see if youre intelligent enough to go to Gymnasium. You just make normal school and after that year the teacher will recommend a school but you can choose any school you want to go.
In German university I didn’t have to take any ridiculous classes that weren’t applicable to my degree BUT for a small part of that degree everyone gets to choose some more or less random stuff so if you want to you could still spend your time on those useless classes 😂
in Germany you also have the option of gettige abitur(basic education degree of Gymnasium) after realschule when you go to a school for 2 more years and you can also get the basic education degree of realschule for 1 extra year of school. so no you dont have to plan your hole life at 9 years old. Any you also have the option to change the type of school after picking one in 4th grade. When you have good grades you can go to a higher education school like from Realschule to Gymnasium. And if you have for example bad grades or just dont think the type of school fits for you, you can go to a lower education school like form Gymnasium to Realschule. I hope this made sense to you Ik my english isnt the best
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11:20 - Graduated from Gymnasium in 2010 - After trying to understand the diffrence of US college and university recently, it sounds to me, like finishing German Gymnasium is more like a college degree, IF YOU PAY ATTENTION AND TAKE SCHOOL SERIOUSLY! 😅 Your Highschool seems to be more like our Realschule, MORE OR LESS... Besides, as you seem to be into traveling, if you want your child to know anything about geography do yourself a favour and send it to a German school. Or a French one. Or in Spain. Or... ANY place, except the US (and probably Canada)😂
When I went to school in Niedersachsen and Berlin(West) there was no exam to be sat at the end of Grundschule. The determination of which further school you got recommended for was an ongoing process covering 2 years which kinda ran unnoticeably in the background during the last 2 years of Grundschule ie 5th and 6th grade. Gymnasium (which is where I was sent to) started in 7th grade.
If you successfully pass Gymnasium US universities will give you a Bachelor degree in 2 years instead of 4.
@@troglodyte0 In the PISA study the US reached a score of 478 which puts them 38th in the world.
German pupils got 500 placing Germany at 20th place.
However the German score is an average of Hauptschule, Realschule and Gymnasium. Taking the Gymnasiasten on their own they'd score 600.
The official number 1 China scores 'only' 591.
@@gustavmeyrink_2.0 neither was there an exam in Schleswig-Holstein, you had to reach certain grades and then the headteacher would recommend to which school you would go, but your parents could decide otherwise, although most people, who attended Gymnasium without recommendation, didn't make it within the first two years. Most of left left after half a year. From what I've heard certain grades are mandatory in Bavaria though...
8:23 @PassportTwo : you forget, that AFTER school your kids start their ~3 years learning a profession = Ausbildung, getting ALSO practical experience, while university involve too less practical experience. ALSO: if your kids later really (and show the ability ) WANT to go to university, THEY CAN. They have to do do ‚Fachabitur‘ … Choosing ONE path in ‚Oberschule‘, is NOT the end of education, at least in Germany. PLEASE ask your German friends and contacts, before you panic 😉
You realize that there is mandatory Berufsschule after Hauptschule or Realschule so you will barely find any German student with less than 12 years of formal education...
Because it is mandatory to go to school until you turn 18 years old!
@@MinotaurLP Yes exactly.
@@MinotaurLP sixteen, actually. You can drop out of school without you or your parents getting into trouble once you turn sixteen. Yes, vocational school after secondary school means people usually go to school until they're 18 or older, but you're not forced to go to school after you've turned 16 if you don't have a job and thus don't go to vocational school.
@@cayreet5992 falsch. Es besteht eine Vollzeit-Schulpflicht bis 16 und eine Beschulungspflicht bis 18.
@@maxirok8069 falsch...there is a "Schulpflicht" of 10 years, not linked to the age at all^^
Many questions to answer, so I'll make it as short as possible (remember? Germans are frank 😉):
1. No test in the end of grade 4. Instead an evaluation of the over all performance throughout years 3 and 4. Especially concerning the type of learning the child is strong at: more like learning by heart or more like analysing, understanding, finding connections?
2. Yes, there is a seperation after grade 4, sometimes after grade 6. But that doesn't mean you can't reach the Abitur (= allowed to university): change to Gymnasium after having graduated from Realschule; take a few extra courses at your Berufsschule while training for the job or even finish your apprenticeship and then go study a related subject at a university.
(There also is a fourth type of school called "Gesamtschule" that takes all children and offers A- and B- courses depending on the learning-velocity.)
3. True - at Universities very few subjects aside your main study program. But still you have to do foreign language(s), often also electives like economics for natural scientists or legal aspects of what you will be going to do later.
4. Yes, a Bachelor is supposed to take three years. But many students take/need another one or two semesters.
5. My husband (in 1990) as well as our neighbor's daughter (around 2015ish) went to the US (Washington State resp. New York State) for an exchange year of studying. They both were surprised to find out that what they were supposed to learn in their bachelor's program they had already done during school grades 10 to 13 for their Abitur. That might explain the differences in number and types of subjects beside the main program.
Another main difference that you did not mention: in Germany Multiple Choice Tests are still very uncommon at school and hardly ever given whereas in the US they seem to be quite common as far as I heard...
FWIU Berlin has Gesamtschulen partly because they have a lot of school buildings from the DDR era (and a few from the Western Powers who had built them for their own army brats) that were set up that way and partly because it's one of the more progressive states
Small addition. It is possible to switch between Hauptschule, Realschule and Gymnasium. We had a special track at Gymnasium where pupils from Realschule and Hauptschule switched to our school. They had some additional courses for 2 or 3 years to get on the same level. 10 to 12/13 grade all were together.
There are more Gesamtschlen" coming up. These schools combine all 3 schools and pupils chose after some years, where to focus.
You don't have to take foreign language classes at uni. This is very much programme specific. If you study business administration, sure, you may be required to take a course on business English but if you study a natural science, this is not a thing I have heard of from anyone studying in or near Münster in the last decade or two.
I myself switched from Realschule to Gymnasium after my 10th year - together with a friend . While I struggled with English (Gymnasium expected serious text analysis at this point already, in Realschule the teacher was happy if we where able to conjugate correctly ...) I had no trouble with math or the sciences.
My friend dropped out of Gymnasium after a year because he wanted something more practical (he's a trained chiropractor now). We also had a few folks in Realschule that stepped down from Gymnasium in 9th grade. So the system is not fixed.
Another thing is with a master in your trade you are permitted at any university. Given, catching up on theory is a struggle after so many years out of school, but several architects and engineers in Germany originally learned a trade.
Yes, I also haven't heard of anyone having to take a test after grade 4 that determines what secondary scholl they'll go to. Instead the main teacher of grade 4 gives a recommendation what type of secondary school the kid would do best in, but the parents don't have to follow that recommendation.
Through family members and friends who are teachers at Gymnasium and elementary school and others with kids currently or formerly in Gesamtschule I've heard a lot about the advantages and disadvantages about this system. Chief among them: kids end up in a secondary school that is not the right fit for them. Parents tend to want to send their kid(s) to Gymnasium because they perceive it as more prestigious, think attending a 'lower' level of school would mean their kid is somehow less intelligent or don't want their kid to be stuck in class with 'all those other dumb kids'. But, as was pointed out in the video, kids are different, some learn faster, some learn more slowly, some are better at book-learning and others are super handy and great at hands-on stuff or athletics etc. In theory the system is meant to split kids up so they can progress through school at their own optimal speed with the emphasis that is best for them, without having to either be slowed down by others or being the one to slow others down. But in reality it's still a 'mixed bag' so to speak of students in each school type, so you end up with kids being frustrated and stress because they're bored or because they have trouble keeping up. (And let's not even talk about the whole inclusion thing, where teachers without the training/education to do so or anyone to help them have kids with special needs in their classes, and those kids suffer for it because they are the noticeable, different minority amongst their peers and don't get the support they need. I'm sure there are exceptions where this arrangement works out for individuals, but amongst the weirdly many teachers I know ALL of them are very critical of this arrangement.)
As was pointed out in another comment, it IS possible to switch between these school types, though. So if a kid starts going to one type of school and realises that's not a good fit for them they can switch to another school type that works better. I've seen this both in terms of switching from Gymnasium to Gesamtschule and the other way around amongst my friends and their families.
What's also a consideration is the number of times students are allowed to repeat a grade. I used to think that there's a max number for that for a student's whole school career (or at least for their total time at secondary school), but I've since learned that that's not the case. Instead, kids are allowed a max of I think it was 2 repeats for grades 5-10 and another max 2 repeats for grades 11-13. Or something like that. So, if someone is at that maximum they can then instead switch to another type of school. At least I think so.
As for the whole 3 year vs 4 year bachelor degree: I agree with Donny, that this is probably because the general education that American universities cover in the first year or so is covered in high school already in Germany, which allows German universities to get right into the thick of a given subject from the very first semester. The downside of the German way of doing it is that it's much harder to switch majors once you've started at university. Or, rather, you can switch, of course, but you'll have to start from the very beginning again and unless the new major is very similar to the old one won't be able to use any courses you've already taken. And since the government will only financially support a student's first course of studies, switching to a different program can have major consequences. Of course, tuition in Germany is nothing like what it's in the US...
What's also investing in regards to university in Germany is that since we used to have different degrees (Diplom instead of Bachelor+Master), it seems that in most people's heads a Bachelor's degree doesn't seem to be a 'full' degree, and from what I understand your job options are a bit limited if you 'only' get an undergraduate degree. Mostly that seems to be seen as the prerequisite you need to get into a graduate program. A German Master's degree takes two years, which is also the theoretical time it's supposed to take in North America. But going by how astounded my Canadian colleagues where at finding out that I actually completed my (German) Master's degree in two years and the comments they made, it usually takes North American (or at least Canadian?) graduate students quite a bit longer. For a PhD it seems to then be similar, as I heard my profs in Germany talk about how a German PhD is sometimes seen as lesser in the US because it can be completed in a much shorter period of time. I think it was 3 years vs 5 years...? Or perhaps 7? One former colleague (in Canada) actually took 9 years, though admittedly there were extenuating circumstanced that slowed things down for her.
you can also crosspath in germany. when you prove to be good in hauptshule and realschule, its NOT uncommon for children, to go to gymnasium from 11-12/13 grade and then go to university. the path is NOT set in stone. because kids that were behind in grundschule can still develop good later on....they then just had a slow start.....
also works the other way round: if you struggle in Gymnasium and would need to repeat the year, you often switch to Realschule and continue with to next grade. And later perhaps switch back to Gymnasium. You can also go to university from Realschule if you had good grades. You can even go to University from Hauptschule if you learn a profession first, get a 'Meister' and then go to university. The presssure is not too high for the kids, because the still have all options later in life.
It's been a while for me, but I went to Hauptschule. After I believe 7th grade I was considered good enough to do extra courses during 8th and 9th grade. At the end of 9th grade, I was good enough to skip the exams of Hauptschule and went on to do Werkrealschule, which is an additional 10th grade in the same school with exams of Realschule at the end.
I aced those exams and went on to go to another two-year-school, that gave me "Fachhochschulreife" - basically the degree needed to be able to go to a university of applied sciences.
And of course, I did exactly that. I studied 4 years at such a university and ended up being the best of my year.
It's been a long road, but I think I came out ahead 😅
For example, there are two different ways for working people without an Abitur to study in Hamburg. The first path is for graduates of a further education examination, the second path is suitable for professionals with completed vocational training and professional experience. There does not have to be a technical relationship between the professional qualifications and the desired course of study. These are just two examples of the possibility of obtaining a higher education qualification without having to go through a grammar school. Others, for example, are via the "Fachhochschulreife" or a dual course of study that combines training and university, e.g. commercial training with business studies, also called "Werksstudent". There are so many ways to change paths and find the right one that suits you that it takes your own studies to figure it all out.
@@Jonathan-kraaiactually that is the only way i had seen. From Gymnasium to Realschule not the other way around. I woes the 6 yeas on an Realschule and i know no one who cenged the school upp not down. I only Know people who were on Gymnasium for an Abitur afterworts.
@@m.h.6470interessting in what kind field.
What i think is absolutely important to mention, is that it is not decided after Grundschule, wheter you can go to university or not. After Hauptschule, you can also achieve a Realschulabschluss. And after Realschule, you can also switch to the Oberstufe of a Gymnasium, and get your Abitur in the end.
You can also get your Abitur later on, as an adult. At any age. ("Abendgymnasium")
+ since the introduction of the Bachelorsystem you have also the possibility to study for said Bachelor in certain fields of work without needing an Abitur - so not having it doesn't hold you back in life
You can also go to a fachoberschule wich is more recommended after the Realschule because it Connects with the things you did in Realschule
Also I didn't take an exam to determine which school I should attend after Grundschule, my teacher gave evaluations and recommendations to the parents of each student, which they could follow or ignore. Basically it was the parent's decision, the Grundschule just gave advice on how to go on.
But there are careers that are difficult to get into if you weren't visiting a Gymnasium (e.g. medicine). So, options are restricted compared to the Gymnasium.
@@kathrinbauer5358 well, even if you visited the gymnasium, it can be quite difficult to study medicine, as your final grades must be really good, as you probably know. (yes, there are other ways, but I think we can agree, that in general a really good "Abitur" is the common way to get a place to study medicine) LG
I remember our teachers at the Gymnasium drilling into us the importance of general knowledge and that the Abitur literally means you have the highest possible degree of general education. When I went to attend university, most of my professors and instructors expected us to have a vast amount of skills and knowledge based on that (e.g. fluency in English, essay writing, critical thinking, analysing complex problems, literary figures, historical events etc) to which they could add. If you didn't know something they presupposed, you had to go and teach it to yourself or find someone who could help with that.
Students can't wait to get out of class so they can learn things. When I was in school, I would ask my classmates "What did the professor say?" and the response was something like "I don't know, I wasn't listening. I just teach myself when I get home."
Abitur comes from latin abire = go away/further, proceed. So the literal meaning of Abitur is actually to be ready to proceed (Im Begriff sein fortzuschreiten)
But we did not have a terrible pression, we had the brains to keep up. I don't remember doing homework up to 13 class... Oberprima, just a bit the evening before exams if needed. For the Abitur I did not sit and learn for more than maybe 5 hours. It was anyways less about what you know but how to find and process the information. Well, you had to know some stuff though.. which I learned in class, while needling pullovers. But, I admet, we were the elite ( town of 100000, 3 Gymnasien, 2500 students in 9 levels) and yes, we looked a bit down on the other kids but mostly stayed in our echochamber... between...us.
American here who has lived in Germany for 18 years and now has three kids in school (1st, 4th and 6th grade - Realschule). I had exactly the same thoughts as you did, at first. I couldn’t fathom the pressure of fourth grade, and hated the idea of a “classist” system. But let me tell you we are totally happy with it now and I don’t honestly think I would want my kids in American schools anymore. First of all, there isn’t that pressure in fourth grade as I thought. There also is no test. And the parents get free choice of the decision on which school to send their child too (except in Bayern, I believe.)
Second, the lower tiered schools aren’t nearly as bad as I used to think. Both my husband and I are engineers and we thought all of our kids would go to Gymnasium, but our oldest child had trouble with reading and also in social aspects, so they recommended the Realschule and we followed their recommendation. Her grades weren’t THAT bad, really but we thought it would help her to get more confident in herself and that the extra attention would be good. Well that turned out to be exactly the case and we are SSO happy with her school. The classes are much smaller than in the gymnasium, and they have a lot more support from the teachers. It also isn’t full of “bad kids” as we thought it might be.
With all of our kids we have noticed that the German schools seem to teach more, and also harder material in earlier grades than I would have expected based on my American education in the 90’s. They also expect the kids to be more independent and there is less hand-holding. But there is also more support - teachers are all experts in their subjects and are very competent. I really do feel that the quality of education here is higher than they would have in the states.
Regarding the apprenticeship system - let me tell you, the Germans have an absolutely world class system for that! Their schooling does continue during the apprenticeship, it is just at a different school, and they are learning more practical things, and they spend some of their days at the company for training as well. (The factory I work at has a big program for Azubis) In general people don’t look down at someone who didn’t study as they might in the states, they accept the, as a regular person just like anyone else. I really like that a lot.
And finally, the main reason I don’t want to move back to states with school-age children: school shootings. Sorry but that is a total deal-breaker for me.
To be honest there can be stress at the end of the 4th grade but this depends on the parents and the school.
If the child id good in Realschule it can go to an Gymnasium with is specalised. Technischees Gymnasium Soziales Gymnasium, Biologisch Technisches Gymnasium Gymnasium mit mehr Kundst und Musikunterricht, ... Auch nach nahc der Hauptdchuel kann man bei entsprechenden Noten oft die 10. Kalssse anhängen und hat dann auch einen Realschulabschluss und kann dannn auch weiter machen und ein abiturprüfung bestehen jund Studieren. Es dauert nur etwas länger. Auch während der Ausbildung kann man die Fachhochschulreife nahcholen wenn man ein paar Zusdatzfächer belegt und danach An einer Fachhochschule anfangen zu Studieren und nahc den ersten Prüfungen auf eine "normale" Universität wechseln. Und nahc einer Ausbildung kann man drn Meister machenwas zusätzlichen Theorieunterricht bedseutet und dann mehr verdienen als jemand mit Universitätsabschluss.
Our kid is currently in 4th grade (in Bavaria) and we are navigating the different options. Our kiddo will most likely have the grades to go to Gymnasium, but she will likely go to Realschule just to help reduce the stress quite a bit because she gets nervous about the higher level of work at the Gymnasium. And while the split after 4th grade is still there, it doesn't seem like it is as "permanent" as it was when I went to school here in the 90s. It feels like it is much easier now to switch between the different pathways, and to go on with your education after graduating from one of the "lower" pathways and still get your Abitur if you are so desired.
Are you living in Bavaria?
Because I also grew up here in Germany, but in NRW and my school was literally falling appart (holes in the walls in our classroom, where you could look outside, the heating system was broken so it was always on even in the hottest summer days and it was incredibly ugly and run down. The building was 40 years old and we were 3,5 thousand students). A lot of our teachers were very incompetent. Our German teacher also teached history and luckly had to stop teaching biology since she never learnt biology in was just bad, also in history she sometimes told us blatantly wrong things. For english we mostly had substitute teachers, since our first teacher got pregnant, then we got a substitute, then the substitute got also pregnant and at last we had a pretty cool, but incredibly demanding male english teacher. We had "coding" classes, but there was no teacher who knew anything about that, probably every single student knew more about that than any teacher and the teacher we got, was a gay art teacher (I'm only mentioning, that he was gay, because it was annoying how often he told us, like unappropriate, no one cared, most were annoyed) that made us fill pictures in paint with the fill bucket. Like it was an insane waste of time, we probably would have learnt more if we were left alone without teacher.
But there are stark differences between schools even in the same city. I wanted to switch schools and one were I wanted to apply seemed to be very prestigious and disciplined (and they were condescending to me on the phone).
Normal. Ich gehe momentan auch noch in Düsseldorf zur Schule und unsere Schule fällt auch auseinander. @@MisterPyOne
I grew up in Austria which has a school system very similar to Germany's but live in New Zealand which has the US American school system. Once I was in a team meeting at work and I used the word "continent". And this young woman fresh out of high school asked me "What is a continent?" I explained it to her, but had not been able to hide how shocked I was at her lack of general knowledge. So she said "Well I didn't take geography at school" Going through twelve years of school without ever taking a subject, that is a core subject in Austria or Germany - that's the US American school system!
schocked 😲
Even if you never took geography, "continent" is such a basic word? I cannot imagine that she has never heard it in her life before...
That's frightening.
It won't take long before it'll be like this in Europe too...thanks to AI there is no need to learn anything...
Even if the school system has totally failed to teach the basics of life on earth, the parents are not entirely uninvolved in this.
Even a primitive people with less evidence-based knowledge gives their children a more complete view of the world and usualy a rich culture.
Very nice video! So as a german with a rather uncommon educational path, here is my experience:
I dropped out of Gymnasium at the age of 18 after the 10th grade, not because I'm stupid but more because I was lazy and other stuff was more important to me than school. After a few years of little to no perspective on what I want to do in my life and working different kind of low paid jobs, I started my vocational training as a joiner at the age of 21. This contained one year of fulltime Berufsschule called Berufsgrundbildungsjahr (BGJ), a school where we were taught the basics about woodprocessing, constructional drawing and handling different kinds of machinery. During this BGJ we had to apply for our further vocational training at different companies. In the following 2 years I was an apprentice in a company with one day of Berufschule (school) per week. (In apprenticeships for different jobs this could also be done with Blockunterricht. There you would have multiple blocks consisting of 2-3 weeks each, where you would only go to Berufsschule. those blocks are distributed over the year.) And after those 3 years in total we had final exams, practical and theoretical, after which we got our degree as trained professionals. (Yes we had further smaller exams in the course of those 3 years, rated with grades and yes, they mattered too.)
I was 24 years old back then. At the age of 28 I decided that I want to educate myself even further and applied to a Fachschule. To get accepted by them, they wanted me to prove my degree as trained professional and also that I've worked for at least one year in the field of my proficiency (Joiner), and I met their requierments. I had to visit the Fachschule fulltime for 2 years in total, facing a ton of exams, presentations and projects I had to complete. In the second year we were given the choice to take additional classes and exams to also get Abitur along with our bachelor degree, which I did. Not because I needed the Abitur, but I wanted to prove it to myself and as I've grown more adult I had regrets dropping from Gymnasium.
And this is how I dropped out from school early and still managed to get my crafts proficiency, my Abitur, and my bachelor degree at the age of 30. The school system here is complicated, but you also have so many options to grow and improve yourself if you realy want to. Thanks for reading this
It´s not a bachelor degree. It´s a professional bachelor degree. Bachelore deegres are only handed out by universities and universities of applied sciences.
And it is also possible to reach Abitur with some additional school, after leaving Hauptschule. So nobody needs to worry about the school you may proceed after Grundschule😅.
@@hrizwaldieos8239 thanks. didn't know about that. still good enough for me
@@hrizwaldieos8239 Not necessarily.
a) Hochschulen typically also have the right to award bachelor and master degrees, and sometimes depending on the Hochschule even doctorates (aka Ph.D.).
b) also some Fachhochschulen have been granted the right to award unrestricted bachelor degrees.
@@hrizwaldieos8239Do you live in Germany? I don‘t believe so. Otherwise you would know that your entire comment is wrong.
Hello,I’m a German 7th grade on Gymnasium right now and I just wanted to say ,that you can go on after 9th grade, even if you were on a Haupt- or Realschule,then you just switch the school
Dont forget to write =
Abitur = highest grad in german school system is primary for to go to a university.
But a lot companys like to see young persons with these grade for e.g. larn to work in a bank.
Or learn office work.
or or or
They dont like young people with lower intelligence and lower ability to stand the high preassure from a german Gymnasium to get the high school grade.
To compare a german and a US person ...
Better say nothing until you have been in both systems.
Generally if you got the highest school grade Abitur, than very often the persons dont go to university.
Even if is state payed (nearly) free ...
You need money and the parents can they pay for a lot of years ?
Not sure that a german pass the university !!
Generally most students cry and leave the university with nothing in there hands !
Good idea to sign a contract with a company for 3 (or 4) years training on the job 3 days per week and 2 days per week state business or technical school called Berufsschule. You get a little more than no money ! You are only a young person that still sleep in the childrens room for thses time until they pass the theoreticl and practial test.
Than these persons are really skilled and not a chance for US young persons because of the high quality technical school training. Same technical school in US is existing ... But it is expensive !
Resulte german is very very very very very very different to US.
Compare is difficult and not easy , better to write impossible.
A german lost his job after some years (mabe he is a skilled car mechanic = 4 years technical school and work in the company) it is hard to find an other high level job. An office work ? In theory impossible in gemrany. Not really true but that is the way it is gerneral.
In US you can hold a lawn mover, than you are a ...
You know something about roof well, after a short time you are a good roofer.
Same in Germany, but the company will first choose a person with training school papers and no unskilled person that was before working in a car service. Possible and legal yes, but in reality not often ...
Change jobs is in germany a high risk to be very very fast a poor person.
You have to work at the same job.
But difficult to find a job in your area and you think if you can afford to move.
Ok same in US.
But different and in US you find a job if you must find a job.
Germany is different. If you must find a job it is low payed and you learn to cry at night.
All because of the diffent school system, the different Berufschule = special job training school (2 days school 3 days work in company) and that a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot of person got a examination form there special job school.
Because it is in US expensive ...
Well in germany it is state payed free, but your boss pay very very very low money per workhoure and you work only 3 days per week and for often 3 years (some jobs shorten than 3 years and e.g. car mechanic 4 years) .
When you are a german and want to go to US = A degree for a job in the health system is in germany ok payed. Not bad but not good. Go to US and if they aceppt your skilled examination than you see the difference.
Ok other jobs are not well payed in US.
Germany and US is very very very different.
Only water, air, sun, moon are identical.
SMILE = (but I am not really sure about that)
Homeschooling being forbidden adds to the concept to assure that the kids get fed and and cared for -and get to experience different aspects of life. It's a tool to try to😊 minimize abuse and indoctrination as much as a providence of essential education and skills.
And protect them from the crazy abusive beliefs their parents might hold like e.g. this youtuber has.
What's wrong with his views?
@@emilwandel
Are you sure about the exam in 4th grade? I've never heard of any Bundesland where this is done. Usually, the homeroom teacher gives a recommendation to the parents which school type the kid should attend going forward. This recommendation is handled differently depending on the state (it is binding in some states, and in some it is not), but so far I've not heard about an actual exam being tied to that recommendation.
probably Bavaria where you can take an exam to still be allowed into Realschule or Gymnasium despite having a different recommendation.
@@TheDunbartxeen Hm, I live im Bavaria and have never heard of that
There is no exam at the end of grade 4. The children write many tests called "Proben" in their core classes (esp. German, maths, local history (Heimatkunde)). In some federal states the average mark of these Proben are taken to decide which profile the child will go into, in others it is the recommendation of the teacher. Or the parents have the right to decide where the child will go. 16 federal states, 16 different decisions.
For our school in Bavaria the recommendation was based a lot on the average grades of 3 subjects.
A lot of the best students in my year were at the Realschule before 10th grade, just because they liked it there.
I took a test in 4th grade in my school in Hamburg. It was in the year 1973!
But the outcome was only a recommendation not a rule where you have to go to a certain school after that.
It was meant to be a help for parents to consider the right school after that.
My own parents would have chosen a gymnasium after that test but I got rebellious and choose a gesamtschule - best choice of my live!
You need to keep in mind, that there are many ways to get to university in Germany. I for example started at the Hauptschule. Because my grades where fine I was free to switch to Realschule in 7th grade. After I finished Realschule I visited a so called Berufskolleg where I made my Fachabitur (took 2 years) which allowed me to go to some types of university where I then got my degree. I also could have switched to a regular Gymnasium for 3 years after Realschule which then would qualify me for any university. Depending on grades of course. A Berufskolleg is a school that is more practical oriented. For example my 2 years were centered around all kine of IT topics. There are also other specified in Nature Sciences or Arts or Business stuff. I think every kid that wants to go to a university in Germany will have many options to do so. There are a lot of individual paths.
I think the difference, you’re talking about is, with Fachabitur you only can go to „Universities of applied science“, while with a regular Abitur, you could go to any university, as you already mentioned.
You did the way a friend did many years ago. Now he lives in the Philippines and works for a German company! Best life ever
@@TimoWolf200 not if he talks about the real Fachabitur. Ich habe auch nur die Fachhochschulreife (12.Klasse) und kann damit meistens auch nur an Fachhochschulen studieren (gibt aber auch Ausnahmen z.B. in Brandenburg und einige Unis machen Ausnahmen). Wenn ich das richtige Fachaitur hätte (13.Klasse ohne 2.Fremdsprache), dann hätte ich auf dem Fachgebiet alles in einer Uni studieren können. Bsp. Ein Fachabitur in Technik würde dir erlauben ein Studium in Maschinenbau, vielleicht sogar in Physik und Mathe, an einer beliebigen Uni zu machen.
The split-up into three school types also has the advantage, that at schools below Gymnasium (Realschule, Hauptschule) you can be an „A-Student“ - which is better for your self confidence - compared to receiving bad or mediocre grades at Gymnasium. During teenage years I find it especially important to receive reassurance that you are ok. Bad grades pull you down.
I went to Gymnasium, but I had a friend who jumped schools twice - from Hauptschule via Realschule to Gymnasium. He told me that he went from being leagues ahead of everyone, to being "just very good", to more or less middling in grades in Gymnasium. But he made it. I can only imagine he was either just a late bloomer - or his teacher in Grundschule outright hated him.
or you just keep your end goal in mind and focus on getting your Abitur. who cares about grades afterwards. no one. but you have more freedom of choice for the rest of your life.
So ein Quatsch! Mir haben die Lehrer damals gesagt auf der Realschule wäre ich einer der guten auf dem Gymnasium einer der schlechten. Ich durfte trotzdem aufs Gymnasium mit meinen Noten und war sogar 2 Jahre Jahrgangsstufenbeste. Ich studiere jetzt auch. Das ist der größte Irrglaube. Das impliziert auch das Schüler anstatt über sich zu wachsen an Herausforderungen, aufgeben. Wenn es jemand wirklich nicht schafft dann ist es die bessere Option aber nicht im Vorhinein.
actually, the decision if your kid goes to Gymnasium or Gemeinschaftsschule (Real/Haupt) mainly is made from social capital points of views - which literally means: if your parents are middle class, you will go to Gymnasium, because you behave middle class, if your parents are below middle class, you will very likely go to Gemeinschaftsschule. There really isn't a lot of difference in IQ or willingness, except that you learn to loose willingness to obey the school systems rules if they keep telling you, that you are a subpar student.
School systems like the US puts you in classes that you will succeed in. If you have an Intellectual Disability (downsyndrome for example) you are in core classes with kids who have Intellectual Disabilities. If you are a genius you are place in core classes that will challenge you. Core classes are math, science, history, geography, your countries language course (for me English), reading, and Literature. Noncore classes are Music, foreign language, Home Economics (learn how to sew, make food, etc), shop class (learn to build things out of wood), etc. My school had car mechanics class. Kids with Intellectual Disabilities were able to be in this class. I took music and we had 3 kids with Intellectual Disabilities in our class.
My brother was only 2 points away from a Intelligence test to be a genius and I was in the "normal" class. Both of us had self confidence when it came to our grades. If you want individuals to be well rounded and tolerate other people's learning shortcomings you need to integrate them. Living in Germany and Switzerland I noticed they weren't as good dealing with Intellectual Disabled people. I succeeded and made these individuals feel like a normal person because I interacted with them through all of school.
At German university the Bachelor degree is supposed to take 3 years, but after that you make a Master degree which takes additional 2 years.
So if you want to become a teacher f.e. you need to go through 5 years of Uni.
Also if you study something in Uni, you don't need to study anything except for your subject. So if you study math and physics for becoming a teacher there is only Math, Physics and pedagogy (didactics + how to raise/educate Kids). Nothing else.
You can take additional classes if you want to, but they are not mandatory and cannot exchange a mandatory module.
I´m in University at the moment and I need 20 credit points in non core subjects.(Allgemeine srudien) wich can be anything. I study history and archeology and I can choos anything from: History of the Byzantian Empire, Lawyer speak, ecological efects of trees, Latin, French, Spanish, Chinese,... , Russia from 1762 to today, Chinese Politics and Economy,... and so much more.
I can choose whatever I want and there are a lot of history related courses to take but I could take whatever I want.
That's indeed how it works in the Netherlands. During my minor in DE I was required to take 2 language courses of 3 credits each as that's mandatory in DE and not in NL. We have all 180/240 credits on our field of study, no side business like language. we're expected to be fluent in at least 3 language before college.
Not useful to know these for US people.
They have to use google and read what google find.
I can say and write it thound times = German is not US ! Very very very very different.
Impossible to compare and difficult to understand.
I'm a german who studied Computer Science get get a Diplom (mostly equivalent to a master's degree) before we switched to the more international Bachelor / Master system. I was required to choose a "Nebenfach" or secondary topic as well as my desired major. On top of that, we were required to take 3 courses that were labeled as "studium generale" - which basically means "Go learn something completely unrelated, it might be interesting!". I took Archeology, Genetics and Japanese (just to give you a rough idea of the available bandwidth). These courses were taken along students who actually studied these topics as major, we just didn't have to take the exams on those topics. This is somewhat university-specific I think, but I liked the approach.
German here who actually went to high school in Germany and college / grad school in Oklahoma - also worked at an OK university.
So, what absolutely flabbergasted me when I was a tutoring and testing coordinator in OK is how absolutely unprepared students out of high school are in Oklahoma. The university is an open enrollment university. That means they take anyone regardless of skill level, but have entry exams for English and Math and have remedial classes that prepare for college level classes.
So, riddle me this: How can someone who GRADUATED high school need Beginning Algebra - a course that starts with explaining adding, subtracting, how to write a number, and so on??? Now, I basically stayed on the math side most of the time, had an English tutor student worker to handle English. Once he wasn't in, I checked on someone in a remedial English class. He presented me with a text that was a half-page run-on. No punctuation, several trains of thought, missing subjects, etc. I asked him to next time read it out loud first and see if this is ready for someone else to look at. That student never heard of that concept. I wouldn't have passed 3rd grade with something like that in Germany, let alone 6th grade English as a foreign language second year (in that language).
To be very clear: For students who came into that college, the education was top-notch! It they battled through that lack of primary education, they will do just fine! I am almost done with my PhD at a Tier 1 university in Texas now, and I do have to thank that OK university for that!
Oh, on the Bachelors: I did a dual BS in Oklahoma in 3 years. Absolutely possible, and in Texas (working at uni here now in data) even more and more common since a lot of students come in with a lot of dual credit or AP credit (Advanced Placement; harder high school classes) that are accepted as college credit. I saw as much as 54 Semester Credit Hours - that's about 10 shy of an Associates degree.
I am American and 30 years ago I studied in Belgium. At that time Belgium had open enrollment for every discipline, even medicine and engineering. I thought that was so wasteful. Belgium no longer has open enrollment for certain disciplines now though. I took AP math in school before it was accepted as university credit. I attended community college to prepare for university, because I knew school wasn't going to be enough. I didn't have to take any remedial courses, but for the students that did at community college, they got a better exposure to what would be expected at university than the students straight out of school.
German Realschule graduate... moons ago...
All you need as a qualification to attend universities in the US is a credit card... money talks... students are customers - oddly enough they are never allowed to park close to the buildings where they take classes...
been there, done that - yep, and got the T-shirt...
It is a common misconception that children are divided based on intelligence. They're not. They're divided based on aptitude and ability to conform to a rigid fast-paced schooling
system. This may be dependent on character, neurotypicallity, family ambitions etc. Etc. Chances are though, if by grade 4 you are falling behind, you have trouble sitting at a desk staring at papers. It makes sense to send these kids to a more hands on approach school. They have the chance to rejoin the university system via the "second educational path".
Concerning your last point: Most B.A. programmes in Germany contain a certain pool of credit points that are unrelated to your studies, where you're pretty free in how to fill them. That can be done through internships, language courses, courses from other subjects, extra-curricular activities, etc. I do think, however, that this general, broader freshers/sophomore education is something which already happens in the Gymnasium in Germany. I know that curriculums for schools are a wild mess across Germany, but at least here in Baden-Württemberg, you usually learn two or three foreign languages during your time at the Gymnasium, along with history classes spanning from Ancient Egypt to the third reich (extensively) and the division of Germany, arts, music and physical education, in addition to two or three sciences along with German and maths.
And also religion and philosophy (the latter being optional) :)
I studied in the late 90s in Berlin. We had to take 3 courses of language, one of them specific to our field of study (so in my case focus on arts/history) and two courses that weren't part of our faculty (my choice were basic astronomy + geography).
I study data science and a whole 5 credit points withing the compulsory elective courses are free to choose lol
Of course with the CP of all the other elective modules tweaked so that you can't really use it or it'll just be double the work haha
Another interesting difference is that in Germany, teachers who teach about grade 4 level must have a masters degree to teach whereas in the US that’s not the case. In 12 years of going through schooling (including) gymnasium in Germany, I have never taken a multiple choice test. I also recall teachers telling us that what we covered in biology is what students learn in 2years at university. You may also want to cover the differences of entering university in Germany vs. US. It’s mind boggling. I finished gymnasium in Germany and came to US for my undergraduate degree, on my very first day at College in the US, multiple professors asked why I’m in college if I already know everything and suggested that I go straight to graduate school (unfortunately the US system doesn’t recognize the German Abitur as a college equivalent degree) - I was bored out of my mind during most of college and the majority of my fellow students had no idea about world events, culture, geography, sciences, literature, music and art theory, politics, and many other subject. Some of the classes I was required to take as part of the core curriculum were equivalent to what I had learnt in 6th grade. The US educational system is a real disservice to the vast majority of its students. Another interesting difference is that at college, before each exam, students are either told by the instructor or can ask the instructor what exact content will be covered on the upcoming exam. I don’t think any German teacher would ever provide insight into that. Another major difference is that at Gymnasium, students elect 2-3 “majors” which they focus on for the last 2 years of Gymnasium and take comprehensive ~4 hour long examinations prior to graduation that cover everything they have learned on the subject in the previous 2 years.
Hi, a couple points to note:
1) Hauptschule is basically extinct in most of Germany by now. Rheinland-Pfalz closed the last ones back in the 2010s. We now usually have, Realschule, Gesamtschule* und Gymnasium.
2) You will not sit an exam at the end of 4th grade. Rather the kids' main teacher (SHOULD be the same on grades one through 4) will wite an evaluation of their pupils' development so far and projected and give a recommendation as to which school they would best attend going forth.
Choosing a school is not a done deal after grade 4:
A) Grades 5 and 6 in any of the school forms are called "Orientierungsstufe" (orientation grades). This means that materials covered will not differ by too much between Realschule, Gymansium und Gesamtschule* (comprehensive school). Thus a child can easily switch if it turns out the evaluation/ initial placement was wrong till age 12/13.
B) It is always possible to switch between types, either if a child over/underachieves or if they turn out to have a more practical (Realschule) or theoretical (Gymnasium) bend. The pupils will get additional lessons to catch up on what thes missed as required.
C) If you finish Realschule or Hauptschule (in Bavaria) with good enough grades, you get the socalled "Quali" (Qalifikation für die Gymnasiale Oberstufe), which will allow you to go on in grades 11 through 13 at a Gymnasium and then on to uni.
School does not usually realy end after grade 10:
After finisching Hauptschue or Realschule wou will go on to vocational training. This is roughly split in half between practical work in an apprenticeship in a company and haf school at a publically organized trade/vocational school with a fixed curriculum. So you will usually be "out of school" at age 15 or 16, but rather go on with vocational schooling.
Even if you originally learned a trade, you can still go on to uni:
A) After finishing your apprenticeship, if you did well enough, you qualify to go on to university for courses related to what you trained in through your "fachgebundene Hochschulreife".
B) You can always qualify for Abitur or "allgemeine Hochschulreife" later on, too. Be it through extra courses during your apprenticeship or after hours while working. The lessons are either free (during Berufsschule) or quite cheap if done paraööeö to work, usually via the Volkshochschule.
*Gesamtschule is probably the closest you will get to "American style" education in Germany:
All children ofare going to the same school from grade 5 to 10, independent of the reommendation of the Grundschule teachers.
The individual courses are split between Basic level (G- or Grundkurs) and Extended level (E- or Erweiterungskurs). So you could be G-level in maths, but E-Level in German and Arts&Crafts, G in sports and so on. You are able to switch (or in extremis WILL be switched) from G to E or vice versa after each school year.
The better pupils will qualify for Gymnasiale Oberstufe, others will leave with Reaslschul- or Hauptschulabschlusss. Those qualified will go through with their Oberstufe at the same school with the same teachers and class mates from grade 11 through 13 and get their abitur.
Hauptschulen still exist…
They’re just called Werkrealschulen now
I spent my first 5 school years attending an American school in Germany and I was bored to pieces. Luckily at 11 years of age I persuaded my parents to let me attend a German Gymnasium and this turned my life around completely for the better! The education there was so much more challenging and versatile. Went on to study architecture in Germany and London after that. All in all I got a very good and well-rounded education without ever having to go into ridiculous amounts of debt.
The reason why many university courses in Germany can actually focus more on the matter surrounding the student's major is that the Abitur already provides quite a high level of education regarding the so-called core subjects! University students can then focus almost solely on their major. Having said that, I studied in the 90s and our Architecture course took a good 6 years to complete if you wanted to keep your sanity. This course ended with a diploma in engineering. Back then there were no bachelor and master degrees yet for architectural studies in Germany. 😊
Super Ausbildung, breites Wissen, gut erklärt.
I live in NRW, my son didn't need to take any exams to go to 5th grade. We, as parents, and he decided in which type of school he wanted to continue his education, it is the grades that matters. In NRW there is a 4th type of school combining the three mentioned in the video: Gesamtschule. One can get any school certificate there including Abitur.
Furthermore, in my Land even those students who don't do Abi and simply finish with Fachoberreife can study at a University if they accomplish their vocational education and work 5 years or will become a Meister title.
Same in Bavaria, only that parents get a RECOMMENDATION about which path of education their children should best follow. For many of them, this results in disappointment (or disillusion, maybe) because most people would like to see their children at a Gymnasium. However, as to my own experience and what I heard from the neighborhood during the years, the recommendations usually are correct. Many children whose parents didn't follow the teachers' advice and HAD TO go to Gymnasium by the wish of their parents soon found themselves back at a Haupt- or Realschule, which at that age, I think, must be quite a humiliating experience.
@@eisikater1584 Exactly, not getting a recommendation to Gymnasium isn't the end of the world. I have met kids who were literally pushed into Gimnasium by their parents and had to change the school to Gesamt- or Realschule where they had good grades, but less pressure. Not to mention that e.i. in Dortmund, where I live, there are Gesamtschulen with a higher level of education as some Gimnasien.
@@joannajaworska0000 Maybe Gesamtschulen put a little more effort into their teaching than some of the traditional Gymnasien? Although Gesamtschulen have been around for some decades now, they're still relatively new to the system and want to prove their value. I really was curious about them and would have loved to visit one, but a Gesamtschule? In the 1980s in Bavaria? You didn't even dare mention the word in school. Vade retro satanas! Go to the the GDR, you bloody communist!
It is the same in RLP. The teacher gives a recommendation, but the final choice is up to the parents/the child.
In Hamburg and Schleswig-Holstein there is also a corresponding recommendation for the half-year of the 4th grade. Yes, many parents choose high school contrary to the recommendation and unfortunately some students then “fall” very quickly through the system to “ Hauptschul niveau”
From our children's school days, we know of 4-5 children who attended Hauptschule at the end of the 7th grade because they went to the Realschule after the 5th grade and were no longer able to keep up with the pace of learning there.
Love the german school system. Many people forget that just because you get sent on one path after elementary school doesn't mean you can't change said path at the end or even in between. I am talking from personal experience. After elementary school my mom wanted me to go to a Gymnasium badly as my sister did the same and they wanted me to be at the "best" school. The teacher back then told me and my family they recommend the Realschule and not the Gymnasium yet my grades were good enough and my mom insisted so I ended up in Gymnasium. Surprise - the teacher was right and I was totally overwhelmed there and hated it. So at the end of the year I changed back "down" to Realschule and after my entire school life in the Realschule I ended up going to a "Fachoberschule" and did my "Abitur" there and therefore got the same qualifications as the children I went to school with in fifth grade in the Gymnasium, I simply took a different path.
So I am the living proof that the system is not as bad and "unflexible" as people are saying. You are never stuck with one path and can always get higher in life with the german system even if you start "lower" in case you have to at a specific point in your life as a kid.
Ah yes... It's not like that this school system leads to depression for students at a young age, most of the kids get bullied and every 5th student self harms themselves.
That was a comment for the first sentence btw
@@Sy_zero sorry to hear that happened to you. I think those things happen everywhere regardless of school system unfortunately. From what little I can tell from your UA-cam channel's likes I can tell why that happened to you. It's unfortunate but many people still have a stigma towards people with such behavior and likes and it's not okay. I hope it will become better for you over time
@@Sy_zero how does this system enhance the chance to suffer under depression? if you compare it to other systems i wouldnt say that depression increases because of the existence of Hauptschule, Realschule, Gesamtschule and Gymnaisum. Depression at young age is a problem but how is directly connected to this matter?
“Surprise - the teacher was right and I was totally overwhelmed there and hated it.” That’s anecdata, though. I know of quite a few people whose elementary teachers advised against Gymnasium, citing (figuratively) you case as “they will hate it there and be constantly frustrated, until they switched school.” Guess what? They were decent Gymnasium pupils, pulling C’s and B’s without a lot of effort and later A's , when grades became important. I’m not against the three-tier system in general, but the selection is heavily biased, both by the elementary school teacher bias (though the majority means well, but than doesn't help, when the pupil in question doesn't have them as their teacher) and the parents’ social status, especially academic background and income.
One study I'm aware of showed, that when parents went against the teachers recommendation against Gymansium, the chances of getting their Abiturs was only a few percentage points (less then 10, iirc) worse then those of who had a clear recommendation.
The finger is still from history, because I’m the 19 hundreds you had to just raise your pinky finger and your elbow had to be 90 degrees angled.
when I went to school in Germany we had a "Orientierungsstufe" for orienting what kind of school would be fitting for us. It was in 5th and 6th grade and after that we were divided in the 3 schools (Haupt-, Realschule and Gymnasium)
As someone who grew up in Germany, graduated with Abitur, and then studied at university in the United States, I can say that I'm so glad I went to high school in Germany. Based on conversations with friends in the US and my experience of college-level studies in the US, I am confident that I got a better education in Germany.
One big difference that stands out to me is the love for multiple choice and standardized tests in the US vs the essay format tests in Germany. In my experience, your skills develop so much more when you have to write essays and illustrate what you’ve learned in the class in an open format, compared to having a 25-50% chance of getting it right in a multiple choice test. I was honesty shocked in college when I had to take tests with scantrons...
To be fair, it may have to do with my choices of degrees and my educational development over the years, but I still say that taking my Abitur exams was the most difficult thing I had to do educationally.
All that being said, I do think forcing a 4th grader to choose their future path at that age is pretty early. But it is worth noting that something you didn’t mention in the video is the ability to switch between school systems in Germany later on. For example, my sister graduated from Realschule, but then switched to Gymnasium to get her Abitur. So it might seem like a drastic choice in grade 4, but you do have some flexibility later on.
Another point to consider, especially in a conservative state like Oklahoma, is the underfunding of public education as well as the influence/control that government has over education (e.g. book banning and curriculum changes).
While the quality of German education has generally gone down since I attended Gymnasium (Germany just got their worst ranking in the PISA study), it is still much better than in the US. Plus your children wouldn't have trauma from active shooter drills or God forbid even have to experience one in Germany compared to the US.
And to answer your random question, body wash 100%!
es ist aber auch wirklich schlechter geworden
der Unterrichtsstoff von vor ein paar Jahren war viel umfänglicher
jetzt nur noch das Minimum damit man die Klausuren bestehen kann
One small correction: if Kindergarten or KiTa (Kindertagesstätte) are free highly depends on the state and even on the town you are living in. It is not uncommon to have a fee for example based on the income of the parents or if a brother or sister already visits the Kindergarten.
You can start sending your kids to the kindergarden even earlier - usually when they are a year old (daynursery).
They have different age groups there to divide them up.
Since there is also the option of a year of staying at home with 70% of your pay (Betreuungs Jahr) - and you have the guarantee to return to your job after if you want
Kita oder Kinderhort are not free at all in our region except maybe for children of parents on social welfare money. It is cheaper if you have 2 or more children attending at the same time.
i have seen that there are so many videos by americans on this topic, but the thing they always fail to see is the social part of having three levels of high school. i (german) grew up watching american high school tv shows and was always shocked by the whole cool people vs. geeks dynamics. we don't have that. those groups end up in different schools and you are in a school with more or less like-minded people. which is really nice!
Yes! I had a really bad class with a lot of misbehaving kids and was so excited to go to Gymnasium where people really wanted to learn things
that was not really the case for me. I always thought it was weirs learning wise. I was already frustrated with my classmates in a few classes that they were to slow or too fast for me (in Gymnasium). Now imagine the range from Hauptschule to Gymnasium trying to learn the exact same thing. Some students will be bored out of thair minds while other just can't keep up.
We still had the “cool” and “geek” people dynamic in Hauptschule & Realschule at the beginning. But thru the years it mixed somehow. Don’t know how it is know. This was 15 years ago 😅
In some parts of Germany you dont take an Exam to determine which schools you will go to but the teacher will recommend a type of scholl but the choice will be up to the parents
And in Berlin (Like me) you Go to “Grundschule” from 1-6 Grade. Also we have “Gesamtschule” from 7-13 Grade, you can finish there after 10th grade or after 13th grade. It has one year more than a “Gymnasium” to have more time to learn the stuff you normally learn in 11th and 12th grade
Often in Germany your education and final jobs differ a lot. One of my sisters went through Gymansium and then started vocational school. The other one changed from Gymnasium to Realschule , did a vocational training, worked a bit and decided to get her Abitur before studying. I was the only kid taking the straight way - but I never ever worked one day in the subject I studied.
Another interesting education path in Germany is a combination of vocational training with a bachelor degree. Very popular at large industrial companies for engineering bachelors. This will provide the company with engineers which are actually skilled production workers.
Hi Donny! To finish Gymnasium, you need to learn at least two foreign languages (for me that was English and Latin). Lessons for the first foreign language (which on most schools is English) start in fifth grade, no matter on what type of school you are. From seventh grade on (in Realschule and Gymnasium) you can choose a second language, depending on the teachers available (my school had French, Latin and Spanish teachers). On Gymnasium, if you really love languages, you can learn a third one from 9th grade on, but that's not mandatory.
To me it seems, that curriculum stuff in the US in completely covered by the schools in Germany.
Greetings from Lübeck,
Marcus
At my school, we were even able to learn 4 languages: English from 5th, French or Latin from 6th, again French or Latin (depending what you learned earlier) from 8th and Spanish from 10th grade.
In Switzerland (german part) you start with English in the 3rd grade and French in the 5th grade and this carries on until the 9th grade (for Real/Sekundarschule) or 12th grade (for Gymnasium). You can complement those individually (not mandatory) with Italian. Or if you take a specific major in Gymnasium you have to take Latin. When I was in the Gymnasium in the 80ties, there was also a major including Latin and Greek (in addition to French and English).
"Lessons for the first foreign language (which on most schools is English) start in fifth grade, no matter on what type of school you are."
Not necessarily. I'm from NRW and had my first English lesson in grade 1. My older brother (4 years older than me) had his first English lesson in grade 3.
Since you're from Lübeck, I suppose Schleswig-Holstein handles it a little differently.
@@mabix69, i finished school in 1992, things might have changed since. 😉
@@HippoXXL yeah, well I started school in 2008 😅
Here is my perspective on the German school system, as a person born and soon to be studying in Hamburg:
In elementary school, they've told me (or rather my parents) that I would not do well at the Gymnasium, so my parents chose to send me to the Stadtteilschule (Hamburgs flavor of Gesamtschulen, which combine Haupt- and Realschule in one school and in each class, but they sometimes have advanced and basic lessons, the student goes to one or the other based on individual performance). Come fifth grade, I was absolutely doing more than well at school. I would've had the opportunity to switch to the Gymnasium, but I didn't choose to do it, because I liked my classmates. After tenth grade I went to the Oberstufe of my Stadtteilschule to do my Abitur.
Soon I will be taking my Abitur-Exam and after that I will go to university. And I will actually do my regular bachelor's in 4 years, because there are universities that combine vocational training (Berufsschulen) with university, with the caveat of taking one year longer to complete than usual, but in return you'll be IHK certified and have a degree. I will be almost exclusively taught things related to my degree, except for a bit more mathematics, the very basics of business administration and a bit of data protection law-stuff.
Young people who decide after the 9th or 10th grade not to continue going to school but to complete an apprenticeship must attend a vocational school. In this case, part-time or compulsory vocational schooling applies. This usually lasts 3 years, one day a week and therefore coincides with the completion of training. Accordingly, in most federal states, compulsory school attendance not only applies until the child's 18th birthday, but also applies at least for the entire remaining school year or until the end of training.
German University has been greatly devaluated by the introduction of the Bachelor and Master degree. Before that, the standard University time was 9 semesters, which is an equal to 4.5 years. Then you graduated with a diploma which is the equivalent of a Master's Degree nowadays. The Bachelor's degree that you get now is similar to the old "Vordiplom" which was basically a "half-way milestone" towards the Diplom.
I agree that the bolonia system is bad, but still a Master's degree is more than a Diplom, altho they are technically the same education level.
Slovenia same
A fail to see how or what was devalued. I started with diplom, and switched to Bachelor/Master voluntarily on the way. The "Vordiplom" used to be a worthless piece of paper, a formality. Now (with a bit added, as Bachelor), it's a proper degree you could leave university with and at least have something, instead of the all-or-nothing that was Diplom.
Most importantly, it added some flexibility - at least where I studied. Instead of having to take mostly prescribed courses and seminars, there was now more choosing what interested you, or what you feel would be useful.
@@drsnova7313 so in other words, now you have thousands of people running around with a degree, who in reality only half finished their education and know nothing yet. so obviously it is easier on the student, but an average person with a university degree is less educated than in the past. this is how the world is going to shit. nothing means anything anymore. everything is random.
@@robopechaBut most of the time you wouldn't need a master. Besides you know a lot with Bachelor degree. Enough for a lot of jobs. In your future job you need to learn everything on top of all that. University doesn't make you know it all. And with the master you are technically over qualified since you have 6 semester Bachelor and 4 Master makes a total of 10. Which is above the 8-9 of a diploma. Most would need 12 to finish tho. This is 6 years. Not really easier or under qualified.
I can give you some insights here. Growing up in Germany and actually missing that German test at the end of fourth grade, because I counted the words of the dictation that the teacher was reading, thus I couldn´t go to Gymnasium. This was 30-40 years ago and at that time it was harder to switch to another school than it is today. However, later in live, I still was able to make my bachelor and master, as there are many ways to get there.
Now, what is better? For a long time I hated the fact that I was not able to go to Gymnasium, however, I actually enjoyed to do a vocational trade as a communication specialist. After working for a while, you will have the same level as if you finished Gymnasium and are able to go to University.
Comparing this now to the US, where I have 4 grand kids between 12 and 18 years, seeing what they learn, I can tell you that the German system is far more superior. When I see what they learn and how watered down it is, even compare to mine 40 years ago, I can cry. My brother has kids the same age in Germany and they are on a much higher level. I see what I can do with my German education in the US, compared to my US friends and families and there are worlds in between. Not only is it way cheaper in Germany, but because the kids are taught to be independent, after they graduate, they know what to do.
If I would be you, get your kids through the German education system. And yes, in University you do not have to do all the stuff you don´t need. You are way more focused on your major.
What is really important to know: if a kid finishes Hauptschule or Realschule quite well, they can go on to Gymnasium. Also there are "Berufliche Gymnasium" (after 10th Grade), where you can also get your A-Levels.
And: in some federal states like mine, Schleswig-Holstein, there are "Gemeinschaftsschulen" which educate everyone alltogether - I really like that because we look at each child seperately and they can decide on there own which way they want to go.
Aaaand: my cousin went to Hauptschule in Bayern, because he was really lazy back then. Afterwards he finished Realschule, went to the Gymnasium and studied IT. Now he has been a high class Manager in various big german companies for the last 15 years. German educational system is NO one way track.
Gemeinschaftsschulen sound extremely funny to me. If I wasn’t aware of what you meant, I would think of a Waldorfschule. It’s just called Gesamtschule over here and until now I thought that it’s something that exists in all 16 Bundesländern. 😂
@@HopeeInk Seems like once again, the Bundesländer couldn't agree with each other :D I was quite confused when my husband told me he went to a "Stadtteilschule" (which is what Hamburg calls their Gesamtschule). NRW has Gesamtschule but there are also a few "Sekundarschulen" even though they aren't as common (which is like a Gesamtschule but only up to Grade 10, so you can get a "Hauptschulabschluss" or "Realschulabschluss" or a qualification to continue at another school for the "Abitur"...). Other states have "Oberschule" (which in some states only goes up to grade 10 and in others might have an option for Abitur as well).... And I probably missed some names... Way to make it confusing. But yes, let's just say: There are more integrated schools in Germany as well, but their name might differ, depending on where you are....
As a Oberschüler (mix of Haupt- and Realschule): A: I didn’t any test., my teacher just talked with my dad and that’s it.
B: Just younger kids made fun of me for going to Oberschule. No adult ever cared.
C: My dad went to a Hauptschule, his best friend to Gymnasium. My dad went to college, got some high paying jobs until he finally got a job at the government. His best friend went to university, didn’t finished his degree and is unemployed for like 10 years.
Moral of the story: to wich school you go doesn’t necessarily mean what you do later in life
I go to a Gesamtschule that has the option to get a Hauptschulabschluss(9th grade), a Realschulabschluss(10th grade) or Abitur(13th grade)
Also there is no big exam at the end of the 4th grade, you’ll get evaluated by your teacher and (for me at least) your parents can choose which school type you’ll go to
I'm Dutch, but the Dutch system sounds pretty similar to the German system (except that you typically get that test when you're 12). When I was in 5th grade, out of 6, in highschool (the type that would be called Gymnasium in Germany), we had a maths teacher from the US who came to give us a guest lecture. but he was shocked to learn that the things that we had already leant were considered university level in the US. So I think that due to the fact that pupils are separated in different levels, those things that are taught in those first 2 years of the US university bachelor are taught in highschool here. Bachelor is usually 1 year, sometimes 2.
Raising your hand in class is seen as more demanding "Take me, take me!", whereas raising a finger is more humble "I know the answer / have a question / have some thought about the topic, but only speak when allowed to."
I like our german school system. I grew up in NRW. You don´t take an "exam" at the end of 4th grade. Which school form you should go to is just generally advised by the elementary school looking at your overall grades at the end of year 4. I had a "Realschulempfehlung" but I still went to the Gymnasium. You don´t have to follow what is advised. For me that was definitly better because basically my whole class changed as just 3 other people went with me. The influence of the people/kids around you can be pretty strong.
After finishing the Gymnasium with Abitur I still went on with vocational training and worked a few years. That was fun but after 4 years of working I was bored and started studying. My previous job gave me the direction of what I want to study which I definitly didn´t had after finishing high school. Now comes the important part: Everyone can go study no matter which school form they went after year 4. The only thing you have to do is get Abitur or Fachabitur which you can achieve through the vocational training system we have. During my bachelor I met someone that went to Hauptschule, vocational training +1 year extra school and as such could start studying at a Fachhochschule. With a "Fachabitur" you are only allowed to study at the "Fachhochschule" but you can change to an university after your bachelor for the master.
I have a bachelor of engineering in "surface technology". We also had core curriculums in the first 2 years. For example everyone (at least in every science field) has to take math 1 and 2. Then I also had to take basic chemistry, physics and stuff like BWL (Betriebswirtschaftslehre). During my master in material science later on at a university I had to take 3 courses each in the categories of business/management and non-technical-courses (e.g. a language or fun courses like "Stereotypes of the scientists in pop culture"). I know of friends that they also had that during their bachelor at a university. But now we come to: Is it less worth? Definitly not! There was a video of Felicia (German that lives in the US) who went to a US university and was shocked on how lazy the bachelor programm there was. When studying science in germany for example the failing rate of students in the first two semesters is normally min. 70%. They don´t give a shit to keep you. Generally it´s: you either adapt fast, repeat a lot and study longer or just give up and start vocational training instead.
Even with Fachabitur you can study at Universities, but you are limited to your home state. At least in Hesse, I did it that way. After changing from Gymnasium to Realschule (due to health reasons), finishing with good grades, increasing to Fachabitur with the chance of an extra year after grade 12 to get the "standard" Abitur. I decided to leave school with Fachabitur and did a "Ausbildung" before studying. Since I wanted to study at home state Universities anyway (reputation, and friends experiences) I did not see a need for the extra year and it turned out good, finishing Master soon. I even had advantages in the beginning of Bachelor since Fachoberschule prepares for specific topics of work (for me it was 'health', preparing for medical assistance and nursing jobs).
having just finished my masters degree in electrical engineering fairly recently (3y) i can confirm that the standard curriculum (for engineering) contains at least one language course with english and french requiring at least b level while all other languages can stop at a level to count for credits. but this is because gymnasium usually means you should have at least b level in english and/or french because its part of the standard curriculum there to have one second language to the very end and sometimes a third by choice and usually thats english with french and spanish often being the only ones offered.
you had the chance to do more of course to go all the way from not knowing a language to whatever level you like but one course was mandatory and for the masters degree you had to have proof that you are proficient in english b level or better and have taken a special technical english course that focused on engineering terms not normally used in conversational english
the curriculum in university had like 15 credits mandatory in social/cultural side study which equals to 3 courses you had to take in your 7 semesters
oh and yeah engineering degrees are usually 7-8 semesters including the thesis and often a practical semester. so 6 semesters theory 1 semester practice 1 semester dedicated to the thesis. (7 semester courses combine the practice and thesis in one semester)
In Germany, you are taught to use the index Finger to get the attention of your teachers, though I observed that it goes away in grades 10 to 11 and everyone only raises their hands. Or at least at my school thats the case.
1. You have a lot of options to still go to University in Germany after finishing Hauptschule or Realschule. So you don't really make a final decision about the kids future by choosing a school after 4. grade...
2. German "Abitur" is considered to be of a much higher eduacational value than the american High school graduation. I have heard that the german Abitur is more like an american Bachelor degree, so maybe that explains why it only takes you three years to reach a german Bachelor.
My son is in University studying IT sciences, and he has to take one "Nebenfach" now in his 2. year, he could choose it, but as far as I know, there were restricitons, and definitely nothing like P.E. or Arts classes...
Same here in Switzerland. After 12 years you get the swiss "Matura" (comparable to "Abitur") I truly think the level of education is higher wrt highschool. Until "Matura" for e.g.: I teach my field "Physics" at "college physics" level for off topic pupils. For the ones taking a major in Physics/Maths I teach on a level "Physics for scientists and engineers" if you the the corresponding books from Giancioli as a reference.
Therefore it is quite clear (besides that it is not required to take many non major topics) that at university level, the BA is reached after 3 years.
I’ve been almost 15 years in school and in all these years, we raised our finger, even in job education now. I don’t really have an explanation for this either, but I guess it’s just how we got taught on how to do it in elementary school or possibly even in Kindergarten. I imagine it is the same way almost every where else in the world: You learn it one way and then you just continue doing this for the rest of your school time.
So interesting! I really wonder how that got started and how Americans got started raising a whole hand 🤔
The same in Portugal
Same in the Netherlands
students who raise their whole hand often -not always - do so in a very sloppy way that can be seen as disrespectful. Often they are just barely sitting in their chairs, then extend their hands to ask some annoying question or start a discussion about the necessity of school itself. "I'll just marry rich, so I won't need that" students who want to contribute sit straight and raise their hand or finger more orderly.
Unfortunately it's not easy to make students see the difference between the two so what they often learn is to sit straight and raise a finger as opposed to waving a hand randomly and sloppily.
Same in France, but usually the habit changes as we age and in High school or higher education, most people would raise their whole hand
just two little additions from a German viewer. Over the course of Hauptschule/Realschule/Gymnasium you have the possibilities to switch schools if you wish. For my BA 100% of my classes were linked to my main subject, yes electives are possible sometimes but don't generally take up much space. Getting some "well rounded" is usually the idea of the last years in Gymnasium that forces you to have electives in every field of study and doesn't let you skip much at all.
So, I am a teenager in a german Gymnasium. I really have to say, that it´s, for me, extremly good that we "devide" by intelligence. It was always hard for me with kids in Grundschule, since they were way slower than me. Just to undserstand, I finished their whole work in 15 minutes. Now, that I am in a private Gymnasium, the people are actually on my level and I need the time that is given me. And I, personally, think, that that is absolutly amazing, since I love learning. I also heard from my friend, that it´s now easier for her to focus in school, because she went into a normal Hauptschule. So I am a true fan of the system.
When it comes to homeschooling, I can understand your confusion, but I need to say, for me it makes sense as well. Kids who have been homeschooled have social problems more often than chirldren who went into a real school. So it´s like kindergarden just that it continues throughout your life, like social situatrions also continue throuhout the adulthood.
I am sorry for my bad english, it´s not that amazing, I know, I just wanted to explain my experience with the german schoolsystem and I hope, that it maybe even helps you to decide :)
When I was in school in Austria, a gymnasium, the difference with the raised hands was simply that the raised index finger shows you know the answer or you have a question, while the fully raised hand meant you were asking for permission to go to the toilet, so the teacher could simply give you permission to go to the restroom by nodding or waving their hand, without having to say anything. At least that is how it was in my class.
Also, as far as I am aware , there is a difference between the German (and Austria too) and the American word 'class'. From what I know, the American word 'class' is what in Germany and Austria would be called 'subject', while the German word 'Klasse' refers to the whole group of children. If I recall from my education when I learned about the US school system, pupils are not as much grouped together subject wise as German pupils. So in America, half a class could not take a class / subject on history, and instead take a class for physical eduction, just as an example. While in Germany and Austria, there is no splitting up. All students of one 'Klasse' take all the subjects together. First subject may be English, followed by German, followed by biology, then physics, etc. There is no opt-out, or even choices, at least during the first few years. In Austria in the so called 'Oberstufe' you have to choose a second language, most school offer you to choose between French, Italian or Latin. And then in the last two years of my school you had some optional choices for some classes if you wanted to deepen you knowledge for example in history. But aside that, pupils in Austria and Germany are bound into one group so to speak.
Generally, depending on your child's abilities and interests, it really does not matter which path you choose. Having said this, when your child finishes Hauptschule or Realschule and takes up vocational training, there is still the "zweite Bildungsweg" to achieve higher education later. There are also other options depending on your education to go to university or Fachhochschule in a later stage of your professional life.
I admit, that many choices make it appearing more complicated compared to only one choice or two choices.
Random question: Body wash, but I generally use the hair shampoo.
I went to gymnasium, my brother to Realschule and then Fachoberschule and we both went to university. He got a better job in the end. I felt bad, because he was smart enough, just not as much compared to my overachiever ass. But, he went the second Bildungsweg and it turned out well in the end. I don’t know in general, but for us, the system worked and corrected itself.
@@MarcLucksch This is so true. Same here in Switzerland. There is no "stuck in the path". Some are faster, some need more time. The system therefore is made that you are always in a path that suits you best (e.g. does not overwhelm or holds you back) and you can always switch between systems if you really want and put effort in it.
@@MarcLuckschI also did Realschule and then Fachoberschule. The 2 years FOS were really chilled for me, now I’m studying on a university of applied science. I noticed that we had some stuff in university (eg in math) which we didn’t had in the FOS, so that was then a little bit harder, but overall there is no noticeable difference between someone with Abitur and someone with „just“ Fachabitur
About the core curriculum classes: those aren't really a thing in Germany because it's considered to be the responsibility of the Gymnasiums, to give the students a sufficient general education.
If you have to take any classes outside of your field of study solely depends on your usiversity and program. I as CS student had to choose a "minor" (about 8% of my classes), in a field related to computer sciences. Any other class I took was a CS class. In other degree programs at my university students might have to take 1-2 classes in an unrelated field, but that is usually it.
Students in Germany don't lift all their fingers, because how else can you snap your fingers? 😉Teachers hate this.
"Kein Geschnippse!" (I left school almost 40 years ago, and I can still remember this vividly :D)
However, in some federal states there is also the "Gesamtschule". This is a combination of all types of school. And it is also important to mention that you can always change if you are good enough and so many people, for example, move from a Realschule to a Gymnasium and then go on to university.
It is not possible for a minor to quit education in every way before finishing 12. grade. When you finish Haupt- or Realschule you have to either take some classes outside the "normal" school system, change to another school or start some kind of "Ausbildung"(qualified 2 to 3 year time with work and school where you learn some kind of job)
I got recommended for Hauptschule, because Mini me was lazy af, but my parents sent me to Realschule where I finished school after class 10 with good enough grades to move on to Gymnasium and finished class 13 and moved on to University. So it is possible to go all the way even if the child took a longer time to get interested in learning etc. It was quite a bit of pressure in 4th grade, if I remember correctly. But many people put their children in Gymnasium even though they clearly weren't up to it and many moved down to Realschule after class 7 or 8. Some fehlt liberated, while others saw themselves as failures and that can have a huge impact on a child's psyche.
In hindsight I think the way Realschule -> Gymnasium was a pretty good one, because were were taught a lot more pactical things you will need when applying for a job etc. or other general knowledge. Many kids who when the straight way were kind of left to sink or swim after they were done studying... because that was everything they have ever known. BUT there is the issue with bullying. We were 5 kids who went up to Gymnasium and I was the only one left in the end. Most of them were bullied and excluded and seen as someone lesser. Didn't happen to me, because I never talked about it and they just assumed I was from a different class. But quite a few teachers seem to have been in on it as well. So yeah... there is that. But, mind you, that happened almost 20 years ago. I hope people have become more open-minded since then. All in all I think the system is not bad, if you work with your child and talk to them they can have an education that suits their needs and abilities. But it is by no means without problems. Hope this helped a little :)
You graduated from "Gymnasium" so you already have that wider education. No need to do that in University. University ist straight to the chosen subject.
As you have been with kids of a similar vocation since grade 5 you can speed up the process.
There’s also "Gesamtschule" which is one school that combines all three systems. So after 9th or 10th grade you can still do the Abitur. The main subjects have advanced and basic level courses. It’s the best system because it doesn’t put pressure on the young kids. I went to a "Gesamtschule" but I think not every state has them.
I disagree, as someone who recently finished school I can still feel the pressure that was put on myself by the Gymnasium I went to and it definitely cost me lots of sleep, but I think it's silly to avoid putting pressure on young children. They don't want to do whats good for them because they, being little children, have only very short sighted goals, they obviously don't see the bigger picture and if they want to play with their train set than they are going to play with that instead of putting pressure on them so they take school seriously and make something of themselves
I don't think that there is a proper "one size fits all" solution.
The German school system offers a lot of opportunities to find the best path for you thanks to the many options for obtaining a higher qualification after finishing secondary school (Hauptschule, Realschule, Gymnasium) or even catching up as an adult. For example, I first completed the "Realschule" in Baden-Württemberg and then went to a "Kaufmännisches Berufskolleg" (a school specializing in economics) to get my entrance qualification for universities so that I could study - what I always wanted. I probably wouldn't have finished an path at a "Gymnasium" at all back then, as a lot of things are very theoretical there, which just doesn't suit me as well as the more practical approach of the combination of "Realschule" und "Berufskolleg".
For my computer science degree, there where 3 more general courses in my bachelor. A course regarding study organization, group learning and presentation. And then two math course.
In the current curriculum it when up to 3 maths courses and one cs abd society class.
There is 2-4 course choices where you can pick unrelated course.
The gymnasium covers many parts of the first year in college in usa.
Like English and a second foreign language, Central European history, ...
I went through the entire education system in Germany. Note that if you are recommended to go to a „lower“ middle school (which is anything but Gymnasium), there is the option to switch to Gymnasium if your grades are good enough. I switched to Gymnasium once I was done with Realschule and then went to University.
So it doesn‘t necessarily mean that you are screwed when you don‘t go to Gymnasium right away. However, if you don‘t have a supportive family (e.g. you have to do your homework while your parents are fighting and your siblings are screaming in the background), the reality for most children is that they will never grade up to a better school. But children who lack these support systems probably would not be able to keep up with their peers there. I remember Gymnasium was actually more difficult than Realschule because they teach less practical but more conceptual, theroretical stuff. For example, while I got a deep dive into grammar (no matter which language) at Realschule, at Gymnasium they spent very little time on grammar but more on text analysis. If your family speaks broken grammar, you would need that grammar deep dive before being able to analyze texts and concepts but you won‘t get that at Gymnasium.
Gymnasium is there to prep you for university and higher academics, Realschule is there to get you an apprenticeship (Ausbildung), so you can work your way up as an employee.
Then there is also Gesamtschule which is kind of a mashup.
If you finish with just Hauptschule, good luck finding a job even at Mc Donalds…
that's a pretty fair summary
I'm Bavarian and went to Gymnasium after 4th grade. Here, the separation is quite strict. You receive an additional school report for the Übertritt. Depending on your grade average the following school is advised. If your parents still wanna send you to Gymnasium there is the possibility of have "trial out lessons".
Here there are also many parents sending their kids to Realschule although the grades were good enough for Gymnasium, thinking it might be easier.
In 11th grade I spent a high school year in Indiana and I have to say that the curriculum was very interesting as there are so many possibilities to choose from and I don't think the lessons were too easy or boring, just the tests were. In some subjects I had problems because my vocabulary wasn't good enough but still it is possible to receive good grades. I think at Gymnasium you better learn how to study, memorize and transfer problems in order to solve them. After returning I could continue with 12th grade, Abitur after 13th grade as 11th grade was a time to sum up a little bit. Just in Maths there were topics missing I had to catch up on my own.
Kindergarten not free here!
I am a teacher in a Gymnasium in Bavaria and honestly I could not imagine teaching a class without previous selection by aptitude. Even within the Gymnasium, the education is usually focussed around the middle thrid of students. The top achievers will be held back or are even bored which kills their motivation, and the weaker ones are struggling to keep afloat. With this gap even wider, I don't know how this is supposed to work out. There is also always the option to swich schools and many students who struggled in Gymnasium bloom in Realschule.
Also the schools put very different focus on their education. Hauptschule (or Mittelschule as it is called now in Bavaria) focuses on crafts and trade and even has classes about stuff like woodworking, cooking or household, Realschule focuses on trade and accounting skills with a bit of sciences and Gymnasium puts full focus on science, political and social education and higher education in general. In grade 12/13 they even have to write a 20 page scientific thesis like they would be expected in university.
Edit: I know nothing about the american university system, but to me it seems like a lot of the stuff in the "Core Curriculum" of universities to achieve a higher, rounded education happens in germany already in Gymnasium. In university, with the exception of "Allgemeine Schlüsselqualificationen" (general key qualification), which the students can pick very freely (I did mostly stuff I could use for my degree (teacher for geography and chemistry) like geochemistry, hydrology, stratigraphy or toxicology, but I also took a spanish class) and they make up only a small part of the curriculum, everything else is focused on the major they are attaining. University curriculums are also not very strict in germany. For once you can freely pick the order in which you want to complete the so called modules and even within them, especially when it comes to more specialized modules, students can also pick from a wide range of courses.
In geography for example I had to do the module "Geographische Arbeitsmethoden" (geographic working/research methods) and we could pick two of either from geomaterial analysis, rock microscopy, quantitative regional analysis, qualitative regional analysis, remote sensing, and some more.
8:00 No, you don't take an exam, it just depends on your grades. If you have good grades you go to the "Gymnasium" (finish after 13 years), if you have average grades you go to the "Realschule" (finish after 10 years) and if you have bad grades you go to the "Hauptschule" (finsh after 9 years). It's not really complicated.
I did Grundschule 4 years, Orientierungsstufe 5-6 grade , Realschule 7-10th, Wirtschaftsgymnasium 11-13th and then studied law ( no unrelated classes just law classes from year 1 )
RQOTW: Both, I don't care. What I care about is the ph-level though.
You don't take a general exam in 4th grade to determine the school path. The whole 4th grade is an "exam year". The class will consider grades and abilities (or aptitudes) and recommend one of the three pathways. Parents can follow this recommendation but in most states, they decide which school their child will go to. There are still a few states that require entry exams- but only for children who want to pursue a "higher" school than what was recommended by their class teacher.
This can be stressful for students but only if their parents or in rarer cases they themselves pressure the students to get into Gymnasium at any cost. I didn't feel any pressure in 4th grade because there was no one who would pressure me. 4th grade was exactly the same as 3rd grade with three additional tests - one was an IQ test with a heavy emphasis on math, logic, and spatial thinking (e.g. there is a cube with a different color on each side - which shape will you get when you cut the cube at the edges), the second one was a knowledge quiz, the third one was a language test- we would listen to sounds or sequences of sound and had to mark the letters or sequence of letters that best represented what we'd listened to. These were the first multiple-choice tests I had ever encountered and my school was the only one in our district who presented these tests.
It's mostly the parents who stress their children. But if the pressure is too high, you're not cut out for Gymnasium anyway as the speed with which you're pushed through Gymnasium can be cut-throat. I had a friend who desperately wanted to go to Gymnasium (to please her father) but her teacher recommended Realschule for her. So she took the entry exam, passed the exam, and we were bench neighbors in 5th and 6th grade. By then she was so stressed out (and had so bad grades) that she'd either had to do 6th grade a second time or leave school. So she left for Realschule and afterward, she came back to Gymnasium for Oberstufe (grades 11-13).
What American children learn in 13 years of K-12 and 2 years of undergrads is taught in German schools in 14/15 years (G8/G9) as university only requires you to study your majors. All the core subjects of freshman and sophomore years are taught in Gymnasium. So, really we get 3 years of education for a bachelor, whereas American students only get 2 years but pay for 4.
On the Hauptschule/Realschule/Gymnasium-Topic: please be aware that you can always switch (depending on your grades). I finished Realschule after 10 years and then switched to Gymnasium and finished after 12th grade.
And for me it's usually bodywash, unless I'm traveling. A bar of soap just saves space and weight. 😉
damn. 4 comments, all bots. smh youtube
Ya…super annoying that every time I upload a new video I have to go through and manually report so many bot comments
@@PassportTwo They're trying to game UA-cam's bot detection. Even if that's already adapted like weeks ago. It's as annoying as amusing ;)
@@PassportTwo You can block 🚫 any unwanted user straight away. YT is slow to react.
I think the reason why children in Germany raise a finger is because raising a finger is interpreted as "I know it", sometimes even in a non-school context (in that case without raising the arm), whereas raising a whole hand is more likely to mean "Here, I need attention", and this attention is not necessarily related to a question being asked. So if 15 children all raise a finger, but one raises a whole hand, the child with the hand will stick out and the teacher will immediately see that someone might have a different problem and not just want to answer the question. Even someone who has never attended school would intuitively raise a hand to draw attention to themselves, but raising a finger is something that children have to be taught explicitly and is therefore associated with an explicit intention: You want to answer the question, raise a finger. As a child, I wasn't explicitly told not to raise my hand at school, nor was I told to raise my hand in certain situations, I was just told: if you have a question or want to answer a question, raise a finger. In other words, if you raise your hand, it's not for these two reasons, because you should have raised a finger for these two.
One result of being educated in Germany - someone like Donald Trump could never be President (or chancellor in german ) 🙂👍
As a German, I can say, if you‘re on a Realschule or a Hauptschule, and you finished 9th (and/or) 10th grade, you can always go to a gymnasium afterwards to graduate and then go to university.
Hi Donnie, things have changed quite a bit since I went to school and later to university.
I actually had to do an exam in 4rth grade which was supposed to determine the type of school where I'd continue my education. But even then - 1970ies - I could switch from Realschule to Gymnasium repeating 5th class volutarily to catch up with maths.
BTW, you've left out another type of school eligible after Grundschule: Gesamtschule where each subject is offered in several different courses of different degree of intensity/difficulty.
The original idea of Gymnasium was to prepare pupils for continuing their education on an academic institution, eg university or a polytechnical school. However pupils can get a certificate after 5 or 6 years on Gymnasium too which isn't equivalent to an Abitur certificate however.
The German bachelor and master degrees are harmonized with a european scheme of academic education. It was originally supposed to facilitate moving to another academic institution with getting your accomplished courses recognized in a standardized way. Yet, I don't know how well that's actually working. I've heard of people having problems at changing between universities in Germany already.
Before that scheme of bachelor and master degrees was introduced German academic institutions didn't provide bachelor degrees. The lowest academic degrees were either master or diploma, and the standard set of courses plus final paper required 5 years attendance at an academic institution. In the 1980ies graduates from Germany often experienced difficulties in getting their academic education recognized abroad. At first several German institutions, eg. embassies, industrial and administrative interest groups tried to advertise for German degrees. But then they decided to tackle the issue on a european level leading to the present degrees of bachelor and master - which are recognized all over the EU (theoretically at least).
Another goal was allowing students to receive a certificate of academic education sooner than the old system allowed. Hence a bachelor is supposed to be finished after 6 semesters, ie 3 years. A master should be doable in 4 semesters / 2 years. In contrast to the US system subject matter seems to be focussed more on the main subject of study. A student could get additional credits for a language learned but I doubt that some sports activity would create additional points for a bachelor in say electrical engineering.
Particularly during the 1990ies most German business associations were putting some presure on politicians to work towards lowering the average age of entering professional life for academics. Hence there's a some reservation about activities being recognized which aren't obviously related to a subject studied.
The one Thing you have to add to the school system ist that you still can advance from Hauptschule at Grade 9 to a realschule or even the Gymnasium and when you get into a Job as a Trainee you will Visit a Berufsschule where you will learn Most Things about your Job. Its Not the end of the Line. And there are still different classes of different subjects Like english with a Basic and an advanced class.
Not to mention Berufsoberschulen, that you can attend after you've finished an apprenticeship, and that allow you to graduate with Abitur - the same degree that students of a Gymnasium get.
@@leDespicableyea true. In the end its Not that easy as shown. And you can Go down aswell. If you cant keep Up with the Gymnasium you can drop to Realschule. Or Just quit at Grade 12 and get an realschule degree.
The only Thing that fucks this whole system Up is that every Bundesland has its own Style of how they define this system. In some "Abitur" ist after 12 years. In Others after 13years. Some are Harder to get in the First place. Thats the biggest issue. And sorry for My rough english 😂
Regarding university, the difference is that Abitur is where you already have your well rounded education so you can then start specialising at university. There is Optionalbereich (optional classes) or whatever your university might want to call it. While which classes you take tends to be up to you, you have to gain a certain amount of credits in via those classes to finish your degree. Your average 3 year bachelor degree requires 180 credits (ECTS) in total with usually about 100-110 in your major and 50-60 in your minor, with around 20 credits for the optional classes. Those can be language classes, something from a different subject altogether, classes which teach you about studying better (I took one about good library and internet research, which included a lot of about evaluating sources, so highly useful) etc. In some degrees, espcially ones where you just have one major and no real minor, the Optionalbereich might be more restricted. Generally, the idea is that it gives people a chance to look what exists outside their main fields of study. Depending on the rules you can also use it to gain good grades and push your average a bit, which I did by taking a beginner Spanish course after having Spanish as an Abitur subject. There was no rule against it and I got a good amount of credits with great grades for basically zero work. It's always good to also check the requirements of those classes because some can be insane and demand as much work as a core subject of your major while giving you a fraction of the credits
11:18 I'm a German and have gone to school and studied in Germany. After the Grundschule I went for Realschule because as you described I wasn't a very fast or generally good learner. After finishing my 10th grade I opted for continuing my school career and went to a Technisches Gymnasium (which is a Gymnasium specialized on technology). This gave me the option of going to university/college afterwards because I had the schooling necessary for it. Generally there are options for people that want to continue there schooling because as you said the different choices after 4th grade are more so to separate people with different learning abilities. My brother went to Gymnasium right after 4th Grade and when I compare my schooling to his, I am very happy with what I ended up with.
The core curriculum is probably more or less done already at the gymnasium. And even if you start with Mittelschule it is not said, that you could not upgrade to another school when the pupil is doing well. At least that is the case in Austria.
Fun fact about difference 2: in Austria, the last year of kindergarten is called pre-school and attendance is mandatory (unless you apply for a special exemption, usually for health reasons). So while you can send kids to Kindergarten from the age of 2.5 or 3, you can also opt not to do so, but they will have to start attending Kindergarten the year before they are old enough for school. School age is if you turn 6 before the 1st of September, so a kid with a birthday in September might start Kindergarten just before their 6th birthday and attend pre-school in Kindergarten. Then there's an assessment of whether kids actually meet the requirements for school (fine motor skills, language skills, social skills) and if they don't, they might be put into a pre-school class in school as well before moving up to first grade. So a child may have two years of pre-school (one in kindergarten, one at school) before going to first grade at nearly 8, or they might go to kindergarten (with integrated pre-school) and then go straight to first grade when they're 6 years old. It's a bit confusing.
You can even skip a year in kindergarden and go to school a year earlier
It's really not that hard to go to university, even if you choose the "Hauptschule" path. You can redo the required "Abitur" as an evening course. While it was not without effort for me to do it next to my trade school, it was definitely doable :)
definitly. one of my professors literaly went to the Hauptschule and now has a phd and teaches at the university
Oh congrats on that, I heard that Abendschule is a nightmare, because the requirements are way harder than on normal Gesamtschulen for example. & Wenn ich an mein Gymnasium denke, die haben echt jeden Idioten das Abi hinterhergeworfen.
9:25min : YES it is a class system, and yes some ppl are very stressed because of those choices, but as one as me who started hauptschule finished the realschule and then went and done gymnasium, I think that parents and teachers should preassure the students too much as nearly any path is possible. For the class system, it sadly is true, as in my experience the different kinds of schools can look down on each other’s, were the Hauptschule obviously gets most of the hate, as they are the bottom tier. Ye its fun
You can always easily and without extra costs do the higher education after finshing a lower one. So its not uncomon that people that did Realschule will also be able to study in university by just adding one to 3 extra years before that.
School system in Germany: Not static as you have multiple opportunities to change from one school type to another depending on your performance/ambition etc.
Duration of school years: 12 years mandatory even for Hauptschüler who will have to go to " special" schools depending on their apprenticeships. We have a dual educationship for apprentices where the practical part is at your place of work for circa half of the week and theoretical education at the "Berufschule". You might even get your qualification at a special school within 3 years.
I am a Realschullehrerin in Baden-Württemberg and a lot of my students went on to study via Technisches/Hauswirtschaftliches oder Wirtschaftsgymnasium which were especially created for Realschüler. Unfortunately we have 16 different schoolsystems with some Bundesländer vouching for a higher level ( Sachsen,Ba-Wü,Bayern) and some with,well ...... .
Good summary of our school education system. One thing to mention: You dont really have to choose your way of schooling when you're nine years old. There are a lot of comprehensive school which include all paths. Additionally you can change your path whenever you want. Lets say you choose "Realschule" and completed 10th grade. If your marks are good and you decide to go on, you can go to a Gymnasium for another 3 years to get the Abitur.
One thing you should keep in mind when thinking of the different school paths: It is possible to move from one path to another (though not very common), so if someone is caught in the wrong path this can still be fixed.
German educational careers are not always straightforward. I barely made it to gymnasium from 4th grade, then failed repeatedly in 8th grade after having been bullied for years. Went to realschule where my classmates were more mature. Attended realschule through grades 9 and 10, obtained "Mittlere Reife" with all A-grades, went on to 11th grade gymnasium, obtained Abitur with A- rating after grade 13. Then had to do obligatory public service which had me forget some things and kinda pushed me into depression. Tried studies in physics afterwards but lost ambition. Then studied cultural science up to a point where i realized it would not generate an income for me. Then became a woodworker. I am now a guy who does high-quality renovation of his own home, equaling a 50$/hr income. As a hobby i do educational and journalistic work in the fields of rocket science/aerospace tech, renewable energies, industrial history and politics. Guess it qualifies as a "broad education" .
I read through the comments first just to well, not repeat everything that was already said but also in hopes of someone telling me if i forgot about a test after 4th grade xD. I did not, i remember being evaluated by how you did during 3rd and 4th grade and even having a full one on one parent teacher talk about what school to send me on after. I am lucky to live in a place where we had the choice between all the school types available (in Rheinland-Pfalz btw ;)). Back then besides Haupt-. Realschule and Gymnasium we had a "Regionale Schule" (Haupt + Real with an optional full day system which meant I'd stay in school for lunch, did my homework there and had extra curricular classes), and a IGS (Integrierte Gesamtschule which has all three Schools). The Regionale Schule doesn't exist anymore, it was transformed to a Realschule Plus first and later into an IGS. I personally like the system because it is easier for children to switch to higher forms of education if e.g. they started at "Hauptschulniveau". Also children have to stay in school for 10 years by law so even if you only finish Hauptschule you need to add at least one more year. Then of course theres the "Duales Ausbildungssystem" which is most common for apprenticeships. You either have Blockunterricht, which means you have several days or weeks of school at once and then practice weeks at the company, or you have a mixed system where you e.g. work three days and go to school two days. And like many others I went on to finish a "lower" education in the Regionale Schule on Realschullevel, then went to a "Berufsgymnasium" which was part of a "Berufsschule" where I did my Abitur with a course focus on economies and business studies (I have a full, regular Abitur. There is also a type of Abitur where you need to work for a year in a related job before its valid called "Fachabitur") and then did an Apprenticeship. And now, after seven years of working experience I am studying in a field unrelated as to what I worked in. Germany gives you a ton of opportunities with a lot less pressure than other countries have, especially socially!
In Germany you have multiple ways to change from one path to another. My sister started at Gymnasium, but couldn't cope with the speed, so she changed to Realschule. After finishing, she made an apparenticeship at a bank and then got a job at a bank. But now she realized that she wanted to go to university, so she took evening school parallel to work and made Abitur (the Gymnasium degree you need for university). Then she studied theology and became a pastoral associate in a small town, after some years director of faith formation in a larger city. Now she is head of a catholic retreat house.
My guess about the finger is as follows: Since I am an old lady I grew up with the index finger mode. And it had been like this for ages. I don't think there is a special reason or plan behind the fact that nowadays some kids simply raise their hands without the index finger - it may happen due to the fact that we have welcomed a lot of refugees from different countries. And when their kids visit German schools they may just do it like they did in the countries they lived before. If the index finger wasn't a thing there, they will still do it like they were used before.
But that is only my very subjective assumption. Though I am absolutely sure it has nothing to do with the Nazi salute. Btw. "raising your hand" in German is called "aufzeigen" which I would literally translate with "to point upwards".
I went to school in the 70s and 80s and even back then, the Aufzeigen gradually turned into a lazy raised forearm with a tired whole hand, the older and cooler you got 😅
@@AP-hr3qm Yes, I remember this! "(sich) melden" was the most common term in my region but it also went from eager snapping (which was sometimes forbidden because enervating) to raise only the forearm and let the elbow rest on the desk...:D
@@AP-hr3qm maybe it was also a region thing. I left school in 1978 and there were no schools in my area where the index finger was not involved. Changes come slowly.... maybe it began in your region.
The German Abi or Fachabi cover the general classes/core classes. That’s why you don’t have to take those at the University.
That’s also the reason why a high school diploma is not viewed as “Hochschulzugangsberechtigung” means you have to take a bunch of classes before being accepted at a German University.
i did not take ANY classes in University that were not directly related to my elected major. Then again, i graduated Gymnasium in 85. Things may have changed? Either way, here in the US you learn how to write an essay, etc. stuff we learned in gymnasium. Math remedial in mechanical engineering was "reviewing" trigonometry, calculus, etc. we already learned in Gymnasium. 2 months in they felt that was enough and started "new material". i had learned both by 10th grade. ultimately i changed majors to languages, which suited me much better. so for me Abitur was definitely meant "hochschulzugangsberechtigung". Abitur in Bayern, University in Baden-Wuerttemberg
About the "raising one finger" thing: We were expected to only raise our index finger up to tenth grade, after that, it was our one thing. However, people made comments when you used the "wrong" hand (right -> bad symbol), same thing in driving lessons.
It's not that people assumed you were a n*** (most off the time you don't think about which hand to raise an right handed people tend to raise the right one), however there always are stares and a bitter taste
The unrelated classes for a bachelors you mentioned are all classes I already had to take at the Gymnasium and students who switched from a Realschule also had to take additional language courses if they opted out of it in Realschule. In my Computer Science bachelors we did repeat some math we did in the last years at Gymnasium, but that was just a recap of like 2-3 weeks to get everyone to the same level and anyone who couldn’t understand these foundations (which were mandatory in school, but not everyone still knows topics from 2 years ago by heart) had to learn them in their free time.
In my experience, every subject that awards credit points is tied to your degree and you don’t have a lot of variation to choose. The Masters degree is where you really focus on a specific topic. Before we adopted the bachelors and masters we had a diploma. Instead of 6 semester bachelor and 4 semester master programs we did 4 semesters „pre“ diploma for the foundation of the major and another 5 to finish the diploma in the specific field. The bachelors degree gives very little on hands experience compared to a classical 3 year apprenticeship and is sometimes looked down upon, because you still have to train these bachelors for the specific job (although they should adapt very quickly) and they demand more money as well.
The masters degree is what is comparable to our traditional higher education, with the bachelor’s having a weird spot in between.
I'm in Austria, and it's slightly different to Germany, but here how schools work in Austria. After primary school (1.-4.) you either go to the Mittelschule (formally known as Hauptschule) or Gymnasium. The difference is not intelligence or aptitude (or not always) but simply the fact, that you only get a Gymnasium in larger cities. Living out in the countryside the closest Gymnasium is nearly 40min away with public transport, whereas we have the choice of multiple different Mittelschulen within 15min driving distance. Every Mittelschule (or at least most of them) come with a special focus. The one my kids are attending comes with a music focus. Kids learn instruments in class and learn to perform in an orchestra (all of this is free!). And Mittelschule have 2 levels for the main subjects (German, Maths, Englisch) - Gymnasium Level and Standard level. You could be in Gymnasium Level for example Maths and English and in Standard in German. This gives every kid the level they need.
After Mittelschule (5-8th grade) you can either go on to Gymnasium for the grades 9-12. or a bunch of other higher qualification school which end with A-Level /Matura (such as HAK, HTBLA, Hotelfachschule and others) or you go and do an apprenticeship. Usually an apprenticeship gives you the option to do your A-Levels (Matura) alongside the physical job you are doing, which then again gives you the option to go to University if you like.
Gymnasium is a very strict and for my liking to rigid system that "breaks" a lot of young children. Mittelschule gives kids more freedom and time to grow up.
I myself went to a Hauptschule / Mittelschule, then did my A-Leves in a HTBLA and now I'm enrolled in Uni (in my thirties).
Uni: Bachelor only 3 years without classes that have nothing to do with my studies
I'm also an Austrian. I want to say there is 9 years of Plichtschule (9 years of school duty that you have to do). Also you have to give your child to Kindergarten at the age of 5 years old at least half a day.
Kindergarden: 1-6 years (yes, some kids are only 1 year old; the average kid goes to kindergarden around 3 years old; depends of course the parental / money situation)
Vorschule (preschool): 1 year (usually at completet 6 years of age)
Primary School: 4 years (usually 6-10 years at age)
Then there are two ways you kid can go:
- Mittelschool (Middle School, formerly Hauptschule "Secondary School"; in Austria there are no Hauptschule anymore since school experiment "Middle School" has been more successful since it combines Hauptschule with Gynmasium): 4 years
or:
- AHS Unterstufe (also continues as Gynmasium at the third grade; so it's kinda the same thing): 4 years
AHS is Allgemeinbildenge Höhrere Schule aka known as General secondary school. And it means it's the Lower level. Since there is also a higher Level.
Then there is more seperation:
- AHS Oberstufe (Higher Level): 4 years. Though some have 5 years since orignally Gynmasium has 9 years and endet, so some offers 5 years with Matura (Abitur in Germany). So it can vary!
- Berufsbildende Mittlere Schule (Vocational education school): 5 years with diploma Matura (Abitur) (there are three different types of schools: technical secondary school with different focal points like bioengeenier, chemical, civil engineering, programming ect. also known as HTL/HTBLA; with 3 years in same job you can earn the title "Engineer"; the other one is Handelsakademie / Commercial Academy known als HAK with also 5 years and Matura at the end; or HWL also known as Höhere Lehranstalt für wirtschaftliche Berufe or Higher educational establishment for economic professions with focals points like Computer science and e-business or Marketing; it's also 5 years with Matura at the end)
- Fachschule: 4 years (like Leatherdesign)
- Handelsschule / Commerical School: 4 years
- Polytechnische Schule or known as Poly / polytechnic school: 1 year (to fullfull the 9 year duty school!). It's more job oriented.
- Apprenticeship: 2-4 years (usually after 9 school duty years; so some do it after Poly) to get a job. Usually 1-2 days a week is school the rest they work in their company. Since they work they get tuition fee. With each year the money they get increase! After 3 years they can do apprication qualification test from the local Chamber of Commerce to get the Gesellenbrief. If they pass the test they're now offical "Geselle" and can work in their field as such. To get "Meisterbrief" they only need to be of age and have the apprication qualification. They need to successfully master all 5 moduls to get the "Meister" title. They are now Master craftsmanship, can have an own buisness in their field and will get a seal of approval "Meisterbetrieb".
If they don't want to be "Meister", they also can go to Kolleg, get Matura and can study! Of course, if they want to. (aka known as Aufbaulehrgang)
- formerly there where Social school for nursery with 5 years to get to Matura. This has changed many years from now. Now it's like this: 1 year for Pflegeassistent (nurse assistent), 2 years for Pflegefachassistent (some as nurse assistent though you have more responsible tasks like EKG, place gastric tubes or place a catheter in the woman; and you're allowed to instruct students); If you want to be a nurse you need 3 years Bachelor (Bachelor of Science); 2 years Master for Health Management / Nursing science. It's changed to get the same global status as other countries. It's also much easier for Nurses to get into other countries if the want to. (though this doesn't help the care shortage; it actually made it worse now since you need to have Matura and study. And usually students with Bachelor don't want to stand next to a sick patient; they want to get more into the mangement.)
After that there are other schools / things you can to:
- Aufbaulehrgang: 2-3 years (usually after Apprenticeship for higher education)
- Kolleg / college: usally 2-3 years (so 4-6 semesters); mostly evenings and can be part-time so people can work too! Mostly are for Berufsreifeprüfung / Vocational qualification exam with Matura to attend University. There are also known as "Abendgymnasium" (evening gymnasium)
- Second educational path
- University / Fachhochschule: 3 years Bachelor, 2 years for Master or Magistrat / some need 2 more semester also it can vary from study course (can be attend at University or Hochschule /College; the difference is that Hochschule is like school. You don't have to register in different lectures since it has a strict schedule; in University you have to see where/when to register to lectures and you have to look that you have all the lectures you need for the exam. For both you have to be present for the number of hours in somce lectures in different subjects. So Hochschule = stiff / no rome for you own shedule; University = more room for own shedule; you have to look for everything you need).
For university of Fachhochschule you need Matura (Abitur) that you obtained either in AHS Oberstufe /HTL/HAK or Kolleg. Without it you cannot study.
- after that there is like in medicine "Facharzt" (like a medicine specialist for ears; teeths and so on). You have to do the basis education for Allgemeinarzt (general practitioner), than 9 months in a hosiptal as Turnusarzt (rotary doctor) to apply for Facharztausbildung: 4-6 years. Usually it takes here in Austria for a Mastermedical student to apply for Turnusarzt around 1-2 years since there are not that many open places.
- Akademien: (thought the word is not lecally proceted they are under public law. Can therefore by applied to all possible research, teaching and training institutions; there are like Sommer-, Military- or Sportakademien; State academies are usually free except for the required materials, private academies can also charge tuition fees.)
Also a few more things:
1. yes, homeschooling is also illigal in Austria
2. University is free. Mostly. Though yes, you have to pay an Studienbeitrag (tutition fee) if you need more semester than you normally would. For bachelor it's 6 semester plus 2 extra semesters tolerated. So if you need 9 semesters, you have to pay. For masters you have to tolerated extra semesters per section. So for studying Law:
Section 1: 2 semesters + 2 tolerated semesters
Section 2: like above
Section 3: like above
This is only for EU citizens. And Swiss and EWR (European economy citizens). For not EU citizens you have to pay. Sorry to say this.
Also you have to pay for utensils and books that you need. So free, but not really. Many books are in university libaries or in book libaries. Vienna book libary card for a year costs around 30 euros. But some books are not available or you have to wait a long time. So times, yes you have to borrow it elsewere of buy it.
So don't wonder if Austrian students have more than one Bachelor or Master :)
3. For Fachhochschulen it's not free. You have to pay tutition fee and ÖH-Beitrag (it's a service for Austrian students who study at Fachhochschule). It's around 400 euros per semester. So for six semester it is 2,4k euros (for Backelor) and for four more semesters ur's 1,6k euros (for Master). It's not that much, though for a student it might be. So no wonder some students live in WG (shared apartment) or at the parents.
Usually the tutition fee is on the beginn of the semester to pay. And if you're not EU/EWR/Swiss Citizen you also have to pay extra deposit 200 euros if you enrolled online for Fachhochschule.
4. When I studied Computer Science I also had a few unrelated classes at Fachhochschule. Like psychology or buisness management. Though I thought they were interesting and I didn't mind.
@moonchild:
Ich wollte meinen Text einfach nicht zu lange machen. Meine Auflistung startet erst bei der Schule, KiGa habe ich einfach mal weggelassen. Aber klar, ein Jahr KiGa ist ja Pflicht in Ö.
Auch das mit der 9. Klasse vor Lehre habe ich weggelassen, einfach um den Text kurz zu halten ;) Gleich wie die zig- Variationen die du noch aufgelistet hast... stimmt alles, aber wie gesagt, mein Kommentar diente eher einem groben Überblick und der Feststellung, dass man nicht nur mit Gymnasium ein Studium starten kann, sondern, dass jeder Bildungsweg, wenn man will, zum Studium führen kann :)
Dein Kommentar zeigt dann noch die ganzen feinen Details auf :)
@@moiragores1226 Ich wollte nur klar machen, dass vieles was in Deutschland gibt anders ist als hier in Österreicht. Das viele Dinge anders heißen. Oder die es gar nicht gibt, wie HTL oder HAK.
Ich finde deinen Beitrag in Ordnung, doch ich wollte noch mehr in Detail gehen! :) Für diejenigen Lesern unter uns - egal ob deutschsprachig oder nicht - den Unterschied gerne sehen würden. Besonders mag es interessant sein, wenn man nicht aus Österreich kommt, sondern aus Deutschland oder Schweiz.
PS: Außerdem unser eigenen Schulsystem variert zwischen Land und Stadt. Du hast von Land erzählt, ich erzähle es eher aus der (Haupt-)Stadtperspektive. Und da gibt es sowas wie Level-A nicht, zudem in Wien heißen HTBLA nur HTL ;)
@@Moonchild0 Oh ja das stimmt, die Unterschiede zwischen DE und Ö sind teils echt groß. Habe viele deutsche Freunde die erstaunt über die Bildungsvielfalt hier in Österreich sind. Wir haben hier definitiv ein breiteres Spektrum!
Dein Deutsch hört sich klasse an. Und das nach 4 Jahren in Deutschland. Kudos
You can switch between all 3 Systems. And even if you fuck it up at fourth Class it’s not really a Problem. Actually you can go back to school after apprenticeship in Most Bundesländer
And there a schools where you can take courses of the same subject with different difficulties (IGS) so it’s really really open if you are a little bit of a late bloomer😂
You can take unrelated Courses in University but most people don’t.
Not sure where the expression came from - but the expression may be a part of it - in the US you say "raise your hand" - in German the word is "aufzeigen" which would translate to "point up", and the index finger is the one you use in pointing...
At least, from primary school in Germany, I don't remember ever specifically being told "only point up one finger". Though, keeping it that way might have the advantage to draw attention: picture seeing a person some 30 m away from you, if they have a hand up, you might think they're waving at someone; if they point up that's more drawing attention.
If someone knows the history of "aufzeigen", that might be helpful here.
30 m? You had really huge classrooms.
Raise arm with 1 finger, request for attention, raise arm with 2 fingers, request for bathroom break.
Many European countries have the differentiated schooling system based on skills/aptitude. There is always the option to move between the school types.
Makes sense, if a kid raises 2 fingers the teacher can just wave them out without interrupting the class.
As a German teacher, I find the "raise two fingers" for the bathroom is interesting, but I've never heard about it or seen it in any of the schools I've worjed at.
@@Ginnilini At my son’s school they did it with two arms. Raised two arms, the teacher would just nod and off you go.
In germany it is a litle more complicated than this. The Gymnasium is a little more complicated than the Realschule but you can still quit Gymnasium after 10th grade. You just wont have your Abitur. Realschule goes to 10th grade and then you can decide if you want to go to Gymnasium to finish Abitur or if you want to quit. Also after 4th grade in Grundschule you wont take exams or something to see if youre intelligent enough to go to Gymnasium. You just make normal school and after that year the teacher will recommend a school but you can choose any school you want to go.
*Abitur is like your highschool diploma
PS: plz excuse my english. Im at 7th grade at germany so my english isnt that good.
In German university I didn’t have to take any ridiculous classes that weren’t applicable to my degree BUT for a small part of that degree everyone gets to choose some more or less random stuff so if you want to you could still spend your time on those useless classes 😂
in Germany you also have the option of gettige abitur(basic education degree of Gymnasium) after realschule when you go to a school for 2 more years and you can also get the basic education degree of realschule for 1 extra year of school. so no you dont have to plan your hole life at 9 years old. Any you also have the option to change the type of school after picking one in 4th grade. When you have good grades you can go to a higher education school like from Realschule to Gymnasium. And if you have for example bad grades or just dont think the type of school fits for you, you can go to a lower education school like form Gymnasium to Realschule. I hope this made sense to you Ik my english isnt the best
This was interesting to watch learning about the differences was very interesting