Really nice discussion of the key trade-offs users have to make. I tend to fall on the side of wanting smaller size. There are many big launcher options right now that have power precisely because they are big. People can choose what's best for their needs. But EDC with any of those bulky devices is tricky to say the least. Not everyone spends all day in cold climates and puffy coats.
Every launcher has its advantages and disadvantages, so it's always a good idea to do some research on them to decide which one will be best for your situation and budget. It also depends if your carrying it or if it's for home defense. Just remember that you get what you pay for, so don't cheap out on it because you want it to be reliable when the time comes. You can also purchase a modded launcher from a reliable company if you're concerned about stopping power but you're not comfortable doing the upgrades yourself.
The S-2 is a BEAST. 💯💀 (Price point, and reliability ALONE makes it SUPERIOR than ANY Byrna-) 🧐 *Shooting the "Grimburg Joule V-3" rounds are DEVASTATING with an S2. 💀💯💥 *(Checkout that Dude from "East Coast less than lethal" for a fairly Comprehensive report on the S2). 👍
@@jonwick6894 Yes sir! I check out his videos and alot of other YT channels often. Its great information to know, and I try to just play my part in the LL community. Although my content is not groundbreaking, A++, superb content or anything, I have a few good videos every here and there 😅 Thanks for watching 💯🫡
You've made some very sensible points that are just no brainers ya know. Especially if you are relying on only one marker for your source of defense. And if you had to/hopefully never have to go to court for a self defense case. Those are made Lesslethal and advertised just that. You should be fine but using a 100 joule mod Str8 up you're f*cked! So, Great job bro and you've got a good head on your shoulders bro...🤟😎👍
@@GaryPillion Sometimes the air valve gets stuck in the out position. this has happened on the HDR50 and HDR68. The HDR50 also has had the barrel spring come loose and then this causes the drum magazine to not cycle correctly. The HDP50 has crappy factory detents, so after a few shots (for me, less than 100) the detent broke and the balls roll out the front of the barrel. The HDB shotgun also has bad detents, although mine is still ok. And it sometimes has firing issues, where it tries to feed 2 balls at once. When they work, they work really good, and the price point is great for someone new to LL or if you just are not sure if you want to spend that much on something like this. I have a few videos on each of them and in each video, sometimes they work flawlessly without hiccups... and other videos not so much 😅
Would you say the LE is in-between these two? On paper the LE should perform closer to the S2 for at least the first couple shots then drop off to SD levels. I have an s2 but can’t carry it and doesn’t fit in the Fanny pack I was willing to use offbody. Considering the LE for appendix carry.
@@Antinavlas When I get home, i will measure, but im pretty sure the LE is same size as the SD, but with the XL boost attached. I made a video a while back comparing sizes of all my pistol style launchers... I will link it for you. Id say the LE is about 1.5 inches shorter than the Salt S2 from the rear end to barrel tip
@@Antinavlas ua-cam.com/video/De-fjEJ77H8/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared Performance wise, I do not own an LE, but if you get a good one that does not have issues or erratic behavior, it seems as tho the first 2-3 shots outperform the S2, and steadily drop off to SD levels after that. Rapid firing/Mag dumping, i have no idea how it performs. I hope you can find any additional information. Thanks for watching 😄
@@frgtdrepsn2904 Thanks for the quick reply! All signs are looking the LE will fit better for my use. I’m just hoping the couple videos I’ve seen of the LE breaking/under performing are not the case for new orders placed.
@@Antinavlas So i got back home and measured my Byrna SD from rear of barrel to end of barrel, also measured the Salt S2... The Byrna SD is 7 1/4 inch long. The Salt S2 is almost 8 3/4" from end to end. Im pretty sure the LE is around 8" long because it has the XL boost attached to it
Is the umarex t4e ppq any good? Some people say it's not powerful. It looks awesome. Looks real i wanted a real looking non lethal gun. Everything else looks fake. And I don't like those push button mags. Can you help me.
@@Ernestosgarage I do not own a ppq or any other 43 caliber non lethal due to the fact that they are very weak. A normal paintball marker hits harder than almost any 0.43 t4e pistol style non lethal training air pistol. The most I have seen a 43 caliber paintball pistol hit is around 11 joules and it is highly modified. All stock, Out the box, a 43 caliber air paintball pistol usually hits around 4-6 joules max. A byrna SD is about 10-14 joules depending on temperature. A paintball marker is usually 10-12 joules out the box, with no modifications
@frgtdrepsn2904 yeah thats the only thing. I did hear some bad things about the launcher o rings. Also I am a convicted felon and I was looking for a weapon non lethal to defend me and my family with.
I have the PPQ. If you plan on using powder ammo like pepper? It will be great. You can land several shots on someone with the right ammo. And get away. Also good for hiking, to deter animals. I always carry OC spray too. Otherwise, it's a fun shooter. It hurts badly at close range. With the light nylon rounds I get 9-10 joules. You can change the spring to get a couple more joules. This in 80 degree weather. It's a great pistol. But Salt Supply is better for defense. And Grimburg is one of the best. It depends on what you want. There's a place for EVERY less than lethal weapon. Pepper spray plus a few shots from the PPQ will deal with most situations. But I also have a 40 joule HDX 68 that will load 16 shots into the target. There's something for everyone. Try things out. There's no "one" solution.
@@universalrebel503 for california, prolly better to get white or yellow. U can conceal any of these, but you cannot brandish or use them publicly, im pretty sure. Makes no sense, but thats california law. It also varies by county and city
It falls under the state's imitation firearm law. You cannot brandish an imitation firearm in public. A gun that's painted bright color throughout the length of the body is exempted. Your best bet is to contact your local law enforcement and ask what the policy is. Ask plenty of questions.
@@universalrebel503 With JulV3s I have seen other YT channels hit 24-25 joules on the first shot, and then it slowly drops due to the CO2 gas being depleted. I do not own any julV3s, but should get some Also, the Byrna SD is too underpowered for kinetic impacts. Best as a pepper launcher
@@Lessthanlethalbandit Hell ya Evan Williams is pretty smooth! Way better than JD and JB. Buffalo Trace is pretty good too, I like to switch it up! Thanks for stopping by 🫡🇺🇸
The term is "Shoot and Scoot" I prefer the power of the S2 over my Byrna LE for EDC. But for plinking, the Byrna's give you many more shots per cartridge. My fave lately is the modded HDP50 from Hot Spot Air. FPS starts at low/mid 600's. Brutal power. Actually, you mentioned something I kinda forgot about. That is using a modified for more power launcher. That may be a problem. The S2 may also have an edge in that regard as it is stock.
I would think face shots will be best with 15j and less launchers with pepper and nylon or aluminum if modded, the weakest launcher i have is the hdp50 compact and it only gets 11 to 12 joules using 1.5 nylon balls and like 5 to 7 on 0.8 to 1.1 pepper and rubber balls, id say face shots will only work on that kind of power especially if a person has layers on, them detents umarex is not made for alluminum rounds fr, it just detroys cheaper detents whick they should have used a better pvc type, rubber balls are not that good because they mishape, i only use them for practice.
@@JayJone5169 ya its too bad the stock umarex detents on hdp50 and hdp50 compact are terrible. I made new ones for my hdp50's, but the hdp50 compact and the HDB detent is a weird shape. AlternateArmsSelfDefense probably has the HDP50 compact detents if you need those. But they are the stock Umarex ones so they are not built to last unfortunately
@@frgtdrepsn2904 yea it sucks, I have a Streetwise heat launcher and seen a video of it disassembled and it has a green rubber detent, hopefully it's a stronger rubber but I doubt ita last either, mercury rise don't use rubber detents, but I believe you gotta take whole gun apart untill u see all springs to be able to get barrel out if I'm right
get the MUB 50 mercury rise more power than byrna MUB50 has 400fps check my review on MUB50 I aleays carry both s2 and MUB 50 I leave my ep byrna for home get sling bag that can fit both gun
Really nice discussion of the key trade-offs users have to make. I tend to fall on the side of wanting smaller size. There are many big launcher options right now that have power precisely because they are big. People can choose what's best for their needs. But EDC with any of those bulky devices is tricky to say the least. Not everyone spends all day in cold climates and puffy coats.
Every launcher has its advantages and disadvantages, so it's always a good idea to do some research on them to decide which one will be best for your situation and budget. It also depends if your carrying it or if it's for home defense. Just remember that you get what you pay for, so don't cheap out on it because you want it to be reliable when the time comes. You can also purchase a modded launcher from a reliable company if you're concerned about stopping power but you're not comfortable doing the upgrades yourself.
The S-2 is a BEAST. 💯💀 (Price point, and reliability ALONE makes it SUPERIOR than ANY Byrna-) 🧐
*Shooting the "Grimburg Joule V-3" rounds are DEVASTATING with an S2. 💀💯💥
*(Checkout that Dude from "East Coast less than lethal" for a fairly Comprehensive report on the S2). 👍
@@jonwick6894 Yes sir! I check out his videos and alot of other YT channels often. Its great information to know, and I try to just play my part in the LL community. Although my content is not groundbreaking, A++, superb content or anything, I have a few good videos every here and there 😅
Thanks for watching 💯🫡
You've made some very sensible points that are just no brainers ya know. Especially if you are relying on only one marker for your source of defense. And if you had to/hopefully never have to go to court for a self defense case. Those are made Lesslethal and advertised just that. You should be fine but using a 100 joule mod Str8 up you're f*cked! So, Great job bro and you've got a good head on your shoulders bro...🤟😎👍
@@FLAlesslethal Thank you Sir 🫡😆
Thanks for the video I'm curious what issues you had with your T4 E launchers?
@@GaryPillion Sometimes the air valve gets stuck in the out position. this has happened on the HDR50 and HDR68. The HDR50 also has had the barrel spring come loose and then this causes the drum magazine to not cycle correctly.
The HDP50 has crappy factory detents, so after a few shots (for me, less than 100) the detent broke and the balls roll out the front of the barrel.
The HDB shotgun also has bad detents, although mine is still ok. And it sometimes has firing issues, where it tries to feed 2 balls at once.
When they work, they work really good, and the price point is great for someone new to LL or if you just are not sure if you want to spend that much on something like this.
I have a few videos on each of them and in each video, sometimes they work flawlessly without hiccups... and other videos not so much 😅
Nice, Real Talk.
Would you say the LE is in-between these two? On paper the LE should perform closer to the S2 for at least the first couple shots then drop off to SD levels. I have an s2 but can’t carry it and doesn’t fit in the Fanny pack I was willing to use offbody. Considering the LE for appendix carry.
@@Antinavlas When I get home, i will measure, but im pretty sure the LE is same size as the SD, but with the XL boost attached. I made a video a while back comparing sizes of all my pistol style launchers... I will link it for you. Id say the LE is about 1.5 inches shorter than the
Salt S2 from the rear end to barrel tip
@@Antinavlas ua-cam.com/video/De-fjEJ77H8/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
Performance wise, I do not own an LE, but if you get a good one that does not have issues or erratic behavior, it seems as tho the first 2-3 shots outperform the S2, and steadily drop off to SD levels after that. Rapid firing/Mag dumping, i have no idea how it performs. I hope you can find any additional information. Thanks for watching 😄
@@frgtdrepsn2904 Thanks for the quick reply! All signs are looking the LE will fit better for my use. I’m just hoping the couple videos I’ve seen of the LE breaking/under performing are not the case for new orders placed.
@@Antinavlas Ya for sure anytime!
I hope it all works out for you 🫡
@@Antinavlas So i got back home and measured my Byrna SD from rear of barrel to end of barrel, also measured the Salt S2...
The Byrna SD is 7 1/4 inch long. The Salt S2 is almost 8 3/4" from end to end. Im pretty sure the LE is around 8" long because it has the XL boost attached to it
If you stopped buying so many launchers - you’d be able to upgrade to Gentlemen Jack.
@@tnsquire3195 Hahaha
@@frgtdrepsn2904 you thought I was joking? 😊
Is the umarex t4e ppq any good? Some people say it's not powerful. It looks awesome. Looks real i wanted a real looking non lethal gun. Everything else looks fake. And I don't like those push button mags. Can you help me.
@@Ernestosgarage I do not own a ppq or any other 43 caliber non lethal due to the fact that they are very weak. A normal paintball marker hits harder than almost any 0.43 t4e pistol style non lethal training air pistol. The most I have seen a 43 caliber paintball pistol hit is around 11 joules and it is highly modified.
All stock, Out the box, a 43 caliber air paintball pistol usually hits around 4-6 joules max. A byrna SD is about 10-14 joules depending on temperature. A paintball marker is usually 10-12 joules out the box, with no modifications
@frgtdrepsn2904 i just found a pistelle x 68 man I think this is the one. I'm really liking this one.
@@Ernestosgarage it looks nice, but I would wait b4 u buy it. A few vids make it look very powerful, but I have seen issues with orings blowing out
@frgtdrepsn2904 yeah thats the only thing. I did hear some bad things about the launcher o rings. Also I am a convicted felon and I was looking for a weapon non lethal to defend me and my family with.
I have the PPQ. If you plan on using powder ammo like pepper? It will be great. You can land several shots on someone with the right ammo. And get away. Also good for hiking, to deter animals. I always carry OC spray too.
Otherwise, it's a fun shooter. It hurts badly at close range. With the light nylon rounds I get 9-10 joules. You can change the spring to get a couple more joules. This in 80 degree weather.
It's a great pistol. But Salt Supply is better for defense. And Grimburg is one of the best. It depends on what you want.
There's a place for EVERY less than lethal weapon. Pepper spray plus a few shots from the PPQ will deal with most situations. But I also have a 40 joule HDX 68 that will load 16 shots into the target.
There's something for everyone. Try things out. There's no "one" solution.
Would you recommend a yellow or white for California or is black more realistic as a deterrent? Are we allowed to carry this concealed in California?
I was referring to the salt supply s2
@@universalrebel503 for california, prolly better to get white or yellow. U can conceal any of these, but you cannot brandish or use them publicly, im pretty sure. Makes no sense, but thats california law. It also varies by county and city
It falls under the state's imitation firearm law. You cannot brandish an imitation firearm in public. A gun that's painted bright color throughout the length of the body is exempted.
Your best bet is to contact your local law enforcement and ask what the policy is. Ask plenty of questions.
Have you used jul v3 on any of these? If so what joules are we looking at with that projectile
@@universalrebel503 With JulV3s I have seen other YT channels hit 24-25 joules on the first shot, and then it slowly drops due to the CO2 gas being depleted.
I do not own any julV3s, but should get some
Also, the Byrna SD is too underpowered for kinetic impacts. Best as a pepper launcher
@@frgtdrepsn2904 what oil or lube do you recommend for s2 & byrnas
During the summer heat wave the SD was getting 300 + fps consistently on 8g co2.
@@t.s.818 Nice! yes it does get decent speeds when it is hot. But it is not always hot outside
That Evan Willams hard to beat my guy try some buffalo trace and great video and information
@@Lessthanlethalbandit Hell ya Evan Williams is pretty smooth! Way better than JD and JB. Buffalo Trace is pretty good too, I like to switch it up! Thanks for stopping by 🫡🇺🇸
The term is "Shoot and Scoot"
I prefer the power of the S2 over my Byrna LE for EDC. But for plinking, the Byrna's give you many more shots per cartridge.
My fave lately is the modded HDP50 from Hot Spot Air. FPS starts at low/mid 600's. Brutal power.
Actually, you mentioned something I kinda forgot about. That is using a modified for more power launcher. That may be a problem. The S2 may also have an edge in that regard as it is stock.
@@MultiSkyman1 Hahaha i like that 😂
Come on... There's gotta be a way to get the Byrna SD up to 50 juls with an 8 gram c02 :)
your s2 is a best protection than byrna s2 trigger is good better than byrna try to put tape on the top hole to give you more fps velocity
Great video!
I would think face shots will be best with 15j and less launchers with pepper and nylon or aluminum if modded, the weakest launcher i have is the hdp50 compact and it only gets 11 to 12 joules using 1.5 nylon balls and like 5 to 7 on 0.8 to 1.1 pepper and rubber balls, id say face shots will only work on that kind of power especially if a person has layers on, them detents umarex is not made for alluminum rounds fr, it just detroys cheaper detents whick they should have used a better pvc type, rubber balls are not that good because they mishape, i only use them for practice.
@@JayJone5169 ya its too bad the stock umarex detents on hdp50 and hdp50 compact are terrible. I made new ones for my hdp50's, but the hdp50 compact and the HDB detent is a weird shape. AlternateArmsSelfDefense probably has the HDP50 compact detents if you need those. But they are the stock Umarex ones so they are not built to last unfortunately
@@frgtdrepsn2904 yea it sucks, I have a Streetwise heat launcher and seen a video of it disassembled and it has a green rubber detent, hopefully it's a stronger rubber but I doubt ita last either, mercury rise don't use rubber detents, but I believe you gotta take whole gun apart untill u see all springs to be able to get barrel out if I'm right
get the MUB 50 mercury rise more power than byrna MUB50 has 400fps check my review on MUB50 I aleays carry both s2 and MUB 50 I leave my ep byrna for home get sling bag that can fit both gun