No Need for Perfection - The Value of Climbing Ugly
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
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We’ve all seen it. The climber who is doing all the movements wrong. Limbs flailing, feet cutting, body off balance. Yet through sheer grit and determination they manage to claw their way to the top, hold by hold. It’s certainly not pretty to look at, but being able to do this can be extremely valuable.
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0:00 Intro
1:14 The Ridge Wallet and KeyCase
1:52 What is Climbing Ugly?
2:43 Where's the Value?
3:19 The Broader Philosophy
4:23 Example of the Rule5:45 Exception to the Rule
7:01 When Should I Climb Ugly?
9:43 Apply it to Life
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Footage credits:
Jimmy Webb - Lucid Dreaming | • Jimmy Webb: Lucid Drea...
Matt Bush - World of Free Solo Climbing | • Matt Bush - World of F...
Heather Dorniden wins the race | • Heather Dorniden wins ... - Навчання та стиль
Big thanks to Ridge for sending me this wallet and supporting the channel! Here’s the site if you want to check them out! > ridge.com/movementforclimbers
fyi patreon and social links are broken in the description
Not to mention, just sending a desperate swing but actually sticking the move, even to your own surprise, has got to be one of the best feelings in climbing
It’s definitely worth stressing the huge psychological benefit of just plain nailing something at your limit, regardless of how bad you did it. I recently flashed a problem near my max, which involved a completely brainless dyno because I screwed up the order of my hands earlier on, but knew I wouldn’t have the energy to fix it. By whatever miracle I landed it, and finished the send. It felt so great that I couldn’t wait to try it again, but with the beta more dialed in. Getting that psych up is huge.
Yes! Expecting to fall but having your fingers hold on is shocking every time. Makes you wonder about all that untapped power...
I'm an orchestral musician who climbs and I am constantly finding parallels between the two disciplines, particularly the performance psychology side of things.
1. Don't expect it to feel good while we execute. Absolutely strive for ease and efficiency in practice but if we require that feeling while performing then any deviance from that expectation has a tendency to derail. Expect it to feel bad instead and then be pleasantly surprised when you're having a good day. We should try to get to the point where we're always good enough even on our worst days.
2. Mistakes happen. People have a tendency to react negatively to mistakes which usually snowballs to the point of failure. Learn to recover, recollect and refocus without judgment. We can judge our performance once it's over
Even the best performances aren't perfect. The best performers simply have a higher standard of perfection.
Thank you Alex. I recently finished watching "Whiplash," so your comment hit differently.
I've been having a lot of sleep-deprived days at work, but I've still been producing solid material. It threw me for a loop and you helped clarify that by observing, "...the point where we're always good enough, even on our worst days."
@@stirfryjedi that's all good, mate.
The thing I'm currently working on is separating how it feels to play something from how I perceive it to be going. I can give an epic performance and feel like shit while I do it and I can give a crap performance and feel great in the moment.
This is mostly a music-based observation but it definitely still applies to climbing.
If you play a rhythm game (Beat Saber, Guitar Hero, DDR, etc), you'll have to learn perseverance through mistakes. It's best to not be phased and maintain focus, but sometimes you have to active correct your rhythm to get back "into it".
I've certainly experienced that in climbing. It's not over until you've fallen :)
I ran cross country for my university in college, my favorite manta to myself was "Well my legs feel like shit so I guess I'm ready to run"
Feeling perfect is an illusion
this is crazy i was thinking this, too! i hve just started to climb but have 10+ years as an orchestral musician and there is a lot of similarities between both the culture and also the mindset of climbing. one of my teachers stressed that as much as music challenges your mental fortitude, you must be mindful of your physicality as well (its crazy to think how prevalent injuries are and how they can destroy music careers!)
none of my friends that i started climbing with have any experience in the music world though and it's cool that you noticed the same thing! i have been wanting to talk about it haha
“Climbing ugly” helped me feel more comfortable deadpointing and more confident committing to moves, which has elevated my head game and sport climbing ability!
This is exactly what I needed as motivation to bust through a seriously long plateau. And the final clip was the icing on the cake.
you can and will do it buddy, good luck 🤜🏼
@@MartinClimbsThanks!
I don't know your training regime, but you may find that you need to do some extra types of exercises than just climbing... fingerboarding, campussing, core strengthening, weights or tension exercises, even low impact stuff like yoga can give immense benefits. Also try to force yourself to do climbing styles that you're not very good at. Climbing ugly has its place, but trying to do every move as perfectly and as easily as you can, especially on easy routes, teaches you loads more... the movement becomes ingrained. When you're on your limit marginal gains makes a huge difference. Best of luck... you will break though eventually if you stick at it.
@@eccehomer8182 your latter suggestion is usually my climbing methodology. I take climbing perfectly very seriously. I think I'm just lacking strength in certain moves. Will try the things you say in the beginning. Especially core and strength items. Want to become a solid V5. Stuck in the lower band of the V4s for now.
@@averageboulderer That's a very common level at which to plateau. If you can do V4 you have to be either strong or have very good natural ability. It does sound like some complimentary exercises will help you. You don't need much... a door frame will double as a fingerboard. I've gotta say (Ashtanga) yoga helps me a lot, great for flexibility and core strength. Good idea to get a few lessons to start, then you can go your own way. It's also just a nice way to exercise in its own right.
Great video that echoes an endless discussion with my best friend. Who (unlike all the climbers who try to climb harder and harder just to get an extra cross) tries to climb the routes he does "perfectly" and therefore to repeat them a lot of times. We have come to the conclusion that this "state", where one repeats a route until one comes out with a beautiful climb, is closer to dancing than anything else. I like his philosophy very much and it has accompanied me ever since in my desire to appreciate climbing in a different way.
Obviously it is not so much climbing the route perfectly that counts as the strange relationship of our body that "knows" the moves and dances.
I agree with your friend's sentiment. Personally, I'm very certain there's nothing I've climbed that is worth noting, so I might as well have fun with it and refine it to the way I like it, much like a cooking recipe. Doing it well in your way makes it forever yours, and it is always a joy to go back and test yourself.
I agree with this as well. Not enough climbers go back to a route if they've sent it. They see it a "job done" and it is great for the ego to send no matter how "ugly" you do it. But you learn far more by going back and trying to prefect moves and it's far more pleasing in many ways.
Love the parallel between climbing and dance. I've definitely felt this state when redpointing. You get to know a route so well that you're not really thinking anymore, just flowing and executing. Now if only we had some good music to accompany the climbing...
“Don’t wait for everything to be perfect before trying to achieve something. By chasing the perfect set of conditions the perfect state of how you feel, your moment is never going to come.”
This is beautiful and so applicable to many situations in life. Losing weight, reading, getting a job….
perfectionists who oppose perfection :-)
"Sometimes it's better to make a bad decision quickly, than to take too long to make a good decision" is actually great advice for life generally. In my line of work, computer programming, you will often find junior team members taking forever to make the "perfect" code. Often, we just need it to work, we can come back to make it better later. And leaving it until later can often mean that you understand the problem space and your "perfect" code from before will be completely rewritten.
This puts into words something I've observed in others and myself at different times. Sessions where I climb ugly are often the ones that preceed successfully sending a route at my limit during the next session.
Love this philosophy applied to life as well!
Paralysis by analysis is one of my main weaknesses. I have been working on this a lot lately.
Thank you for this reminder that applies to life in general.
PDM
Excellent discussion of the philosophy of climbing ugly! The no expectation sends feel weird and surprising at the same time. Miss you presence at PW
Wonderfully insightful video, as always, thank you.
I'd like to add that you should of course still be careful with forcing moves you're uncomfortable with on climbs that are on the edge of your physical ability, especially when they involve sheer finger strength (be that by design or by your bad positioning). I was in exactly that spot and will never forget the ugly *SNAP* out of one of my fingers, nor the months of not climbing after that.
I turned 67 this fall and got back into bodybuilding training and eating. I used to compete in the 80's and then in the 90's started my family and left the gym til now...I have since added animal moves! I love it. The crawls and variations have striated my legs! I'm in pretty good shape, condition. Life kept me strong and fluid. When I started the animal routines it just gave me a different fire. Very trance like. Great video!
Great video, very inspiring! I started climbing a month ago so I know I almost exclusively climb "ugly." I can get pretty demoralized knowing how little technique I have, or knowing the technique but not having the strength or experience to execute it. But this is the exact type of video that keeps a novice like me going.
"By chasing the perfcet set of conditions or the perfect state of how you feel...your moment is never going to come." i feel like that statement is way undervalued and probably the reason a lot of ppl dont achieve their goals
"Sometimes its better to make a bad decision quickly, than to wait too long and make the right decision." BRO am i watching climbin videos or the dalai lamah senpaiing my life
I come from a martial arts background (judo) and I must say this is exactly what I always try to express to my climbing friends. There is a time for perfection and that's when you are training and learning the shape of the movement and the timing.But if its competition and its go time its go time. No hesitation bc it can cost you your game. Trust in your training trust in yourself. Perfection comes later. We use to say. Doesn't matter how ugly the throw is ippon is ippon.
I think u did a great job highlighting the benefits of just pushing through. I really enjoy climbing ugly because it gives me the confidence that it's possible and in the realm of "I can do it".
This is an amazing video, not only for climbing but also as a general lesson for life. Some quotes in the video are so crazily spot on. It's way better to do an "ugly" move quickly than stay paralized waiting for the correct move.
My favorite video by you so far! This topic is not talked about enough, in climbing and life. The gains from overcoming fear of failure and perfectionism will serve much further than reaching any v-grade will.
Just came to say that your content quality is very high and I very much appreciate that you keep posting. Hope to see so much more in the months and years to come :) 💪
Yeeeeeeessssss!!!!! Embodying this philosophy with climbing feels absolutely amazing! I struggle with this theme of waiting for perfect circumstances a lot and climbing is helping me break through stagnation, as it requires my courage, grit, determination and mental mastery. I just fell in love with bouldering.
Thank you for this. I'm slightly overweight and all I always cringe when I watch myself climbing in a video because I feel heavy and ungraceful. Your video made me realize that even though I'm not the fittest or have the best technique, I always try the next move no matter what. I feel that some climbing gyms can become really toxic for climbing itself when they get infected by fitness culture.
Great video! Thank you for putting the credits in the description.
So glad I clicked on this. I finally sent a gym v5 after 4 non consecutive days of projecting. What really pushed me was someone asking me about my beta on the problem, which, because of my height and strength, is admittedly ugly. But, I think what forced the send was the idea that I probably wouldn't get the dyno that I'd planned out for the last week, so I just went for it, expecting a fall. After catching the move in the worst way possible (4 fingers but pinky tucked), I did my best to readjust my feet and eventually hands to get the next couple moves, the balance, and eventually, the send. At the end of the day, I think ugly climbing can really teach a lot about where one's limits are, and I'm so grateful for it.
Siawn, I randomly found your channel because I’m starting to learn how to climb. Love to see that you’re doing well and creating content to help others! - Young
I watched this video today and it helped me this evening to sent a (for me) pretty tough route! Thanks so much!
great video! i love how philosophical your approach to climbing is... you also made me realize i always end my bouldering sessions by doing an ugly climb of the highest grade i'm working on, to give me a send goal for next time
Excellent, well-articulated insights as usual. Love the closing clip.
I like climbing with others that have different styles and we grow by helping each other with diversifying the styles. But there is something to say about just trying something, or just trying hard even when its sloppy. Great Video!
I started climbing about 2 months ago, so I would say I'm a total beginner with a fast increasing strenght grip at the moment. I'm usually training alone and I'm not on any course so I know absolutely nothing about technical climbing. I just decided that for now I want to train mostly my arms and hands (I've been a sprinter my whole life, so my legs muscles always looked hella big, while arms not so much) and also I wanted to see how much I can learn with "climbing ugly". I'm trying every single route, but sometimes I get weird looks from other people. I know that I don't look graceful, but when I finally finish V4 or even V5 boulder only with my own strength and intuition, it feels absolutely amazing.
I 've always had issues with a 100% or 0% approach. I need to perfectly theorycraft and approach any topic of the daily life or give it up completely. Whether that is games, work, from the most important to the most menial task. I did bouldering for the first time before the lockdowns started and I got tendonitis on my right shoulder cause I m a proper couch potato. But the seed was planted. Fast forward 2 years later and I m now again climbing. Still a couch potato, still inconsistent with things in life, but I want to CLIMB.
I ve been bouldering at least once every week for the last 5-6 weeks and while still a beginner I know 2 things:
1) When I am not sleeping, eating, working, climbing I will either be with friends or mostly watching bouldering related videos. Yours for the most zen teaching sessions or magnus for the fun of what a man can do when challenged.
2) For the first time since I can remember, I dont care if I do things 100% right. Of course I am still over-preparing for a hobby I never had before and reading into all these topics, but it doesn't matter if I cant outside flag properly yet, or if my body type is not exactly build for climbing, I will climb during a session until I cant grab a V0/V1 anymore. It speaks to me on primal level, "I need to climb this wall" and I love it more than any physical activity I ve done before. Truely ther closest I 've felt to a hobby in my 30+ years on this planet. Thank you for your content, it means a lot!
I really liked this videos specially as someone who also does martial arts and fitness training mixed with bouldering just to stay in shape and feel good and not out of any competition intentions. It really helps to enjoy the session and have a great workout when you don't always strive for perfection instead of just doing your thing and don't overthink things. This is also very important when you want to relax from a taxing job where you need to think and calculate a lot.
I really needed this. Thank you!!
Thank you so much for the relatable content! I love your videos.
This is something I’ve recognized as a new climber! Im either doing a calm technique training day or I go Narasaki mode IE my only goal is sending routes. If not through skill then brute forced with athleticism. I usually do this type of training when my gym has comp walls setup, I love it.
Awesome video, the clip and they end was perfect thanks!
I started climbing 2 months ago. Recently, due to an accident while climbing, I broke both my ankles and my left heel. There were various reasons, but I think it was mostly my lack of core strength to keep me up the wall. I don't want to stop climbing, but I am terrified of going on the wall again once I heal. I would be extremely grateful if you could make a video on how to fall safely and what techniques to use in order to avoid injury and accidents. Not only that, but I am sure this will be useful to other climbers as well, and probably help them avoid injury. I was lucky that I didn't break something more crucial, but others might not be. Thank you for all the wonderful content you make for us :)
Hope you’re doing well!
Such an interesting topic. I started climbing when I had basically no upper body strength at all (I literally couldn't even do a single push-up until two months into climbing), so all of my technique was the DEFINITION of "climbing ugly." Now that my strength and technique has caught up a full year into my climbing journey, I find that the early grit and determination I needed to summon up to send even V1s has really helped my mental game in working on projects in my current range (~V5).
I love your videos! keep them coming! great content!
This is really good insight. Thank you!
I like your idea and your points are well made! I prefer to think of it as commitment to your decided move more than climbing ugly. You should always try to move well through your moves but commit to your decision regardless if it’s the more efficient or intended move, especially if you’re going for an onsight or flash. Trying hard is definitely a big part of this. They are good skills to learn. Grit your teeth, try hard commitment can get you through a lot.
Thank you dude, this was beautiful!
Your most important video yet. Thank you.
I’m also a perfectionist, and I remind myself frequently that it just needs to be done too! Great video as usual 👍🏼 👍🏼
I was ill for a couple of days and tomorrow I have a short 5k race. I wasn't intending to try hard to beat my PB but you have inspired me to go for it, nothing to lose.
Great content as always
This channel is unmatched in it's wisdom and logically, scientific approach to climbing and training. Even now, in it's seemingly counterintuitive philosophy of "climbing ugly", it teaches that one static approach isn't always best, and that you must be dynamic and fluid in climbing and life. This channel is a treasure trove of knowledge and wisdom, and you can continue to unpack wisdom from watching a video that you've seen several times. This channel is nothing short of outstanding. Keep the content coming, only at your pace! 💪🏻
This video could apply to my entire life.
Thanks for a bit of motivation to get things done.
Enjoy your Route :)
Really inspiring. Mental power is exactly as important as physical power in climbing
Great video! 👍
Another great video. Thanks!"
Amazing video.
Thank you so mich for this!
This is very 48 Laws of Power in presentation. I like it!
climbing ugly is my default state lmao
Excellent!
Thank you for this video. I always knock my flash sends for being "sloppy" and with "terrible technique". It's a good lesson that those are as valuable as the climbs that I dial before sending :)
I've somehow made it to V5 with purely ugly climbing, coming from a background of skateboarding, snowboarding, and ninja warrior like obstacle training helped me to achieve this, but now im at a standstill and really need to work on technique 😅 your channel is helping a lot, but this video makes me feel better about my efforts😅
Wake up, new movement for climbers vid just dropped ❤️
this seems to fit with what i like to refer to as "sometimes you gotta try every stupid thing until you find the right stupid thing" XD and in reference to the comments at the beginning about the "climb ugly" climber coming away with more info, I've def had those moments where i throw for a move, but really intending to land it, but just wanting to see how the movement towards the next hold feels, and if I'm lucky, what the next good feels like. trying and failing isn't a fail if it steps you closer to success! thanks as always for the great videos ^_^
Couldn't agree more ugly climbing pushes your limits, makes you a better climber overall, makes you more prepared to adapt when the climb doesn't go to plan, my moto is that I never drop off a climb I send or I fall and it has really helped me send hard problems and flash some grades I didn't think I could flash. Also it's so satisfying to send a router when you fought for it and when it's not perfect at all.
This is my entire climbing style and genuinely I feel like it has given me so much more strength then most climbers of my same time. I have good technique if I need to figure out a problem. But a lot of time I am a very “ugly” climber. Not saying I ignore technique but the same thing in the video where you get to a point and it just isn’t what you thought. But actually pushing through and making up for technique with just trying harder builds so much more strength
There is a lot of difference between bad technique and just committing to a move even though you feel it’s a suboptimal solution or the conditions are suboptimal. I think there are two good reasons why you should *not* force some moves: Injury risk, preserving your strength.
it`s often also a question of pressure. If you know, that you could clim it on this try, you are under pressure. But if the condicions are bad are something else, and you don`t think that it you are able to climb it, the pressure is away, and that sometimes helpes a lot, you are more relaxed
When will you work on the Sport Climbing progression series?
This is so accurate.
Last week during one of my sessions at my local gym, a couple of climbers approached me to say as a compliment "Hey, you are a very good climber. Every move you make is so calm, you only go for moves when you know you'll get them, we'd like some beta".
Funny thing is that I consider them better climbers than me because I already saw them sending/flashing routes I can't even start.
They look like spaghetti on the wall and every unecessary dyno I see them do, I see a potential shoulder/finger injury, but they do have this "keep going" mentality, while I struggle with my need of perfection and control.
love the video - please just drop the 'drop shadows' on the subtitles it's super hard to read (for me) !
Good life lesson too!
Dude i just called it my style and went with it :) If i'm not swinging like monkeybars at the school playground i'm not doing it right.
I only climb ugly so this vid is perfect!
Excellent video. A similar concept I like to consider myself, is that it's really hard to climb perfect technique, statically and controlled, for example not readjusting hands, when you are climbing at your 100% limit. It's easier to execute technique and smooth climbing when you are climbing a few grades below your max. So don't be so hard on yourself when you climb at the limit, and everything you do is not textbook perfect.
I’m 2 months in to bouldering and all I have been doing is “ugly climbing”. I’ve grown so much from failing so many times that I’ve found technique through just gathering data. Now im doing v5’s!! :)
Does anyone know where he's climbing @ 9:24? Looks super fun!
hell yeah dude
My girlfriend and I call this "Struggle bussing". If we're lead climbing or bouldering, and we feel like we're pushing past where we feel like our technique can get us without too much trouble, that's the term we use.
"I think I'm going to give this 5.11 a try. Might have to struggle bus my way up it, but oh well" is something we've said a million times lol
I am kind of surprised that you didn’t make a connection between risk-of-death when soloing and risk-of-injury when it comes to forcing moves. As someone recovering from a pulley rupture, I think injury propensity is a significant factor to balance when considering whether you should force a move
A million percent true - and especially if you’re gym / board climbing, you can then complete or try repeat the problem with better style. If you’re conscious of how you’re making an impossible move possible, or climbing it with more efficiency or attention to detail next time, you learn and store than movement for the next time it matters
I forget my Beta once I top out.
@@Nuttyirishman85 the masochist in me often makes me return to a hard problem if I work out a better beta - especially if I see someone else climb it with a more a efficient style that requires less physical grunt and better footwork
@@edemaye3328 If i onsight it I can never repeat it the second try, I always do something different unintentionally. If I’m working on it for awhile I can remember it.
As a beginner (this month is 1 year), I climb ugly by definition and never cared. I try to climb perfectly only on routes I already sent multiple times, so I don't care about sending, and just focus on polishing the technique.
Honestly all I can see here is just trying. It's not climbing ugly, it's trying. If you're working on a route which is really hard for you, you can't do it with perfect technic because it requires the maximun amount of effort.
So yes, keep trying everyone!
I'm messing around with my first v4 and I spent so many attempts trying to get my feet and balance perfect at the crux but it got me nowhere. Today I finally said fuck it and went for an awkward dyno, got a hand on the next hold before falling. Ugly as hell but it felt incredible, and now I know what to do next attempt.
Can u do a video on horse kicking? I find a lot of obnoxious climbers in the gyms do this especially during feet swaps or feet placements. I see ppl in the gym do this, but pros would never do this.
I like your video, but most people care about sending the boulder, not being perfect in every move.
What's with the small one second clip of the running at the end? Something about just see what happens? And the runner won?
3:05 is literally insane take. You learn fucking nothing from falling off a hold that you grabbed wrong in the first place. But you do expend your energy. Also are you projecting your climbs by starting from the ground every time?
I like to climb ugly on the days I do auto-belay. Just adds to the endurance gains.
If you project a boulder for really long, and you do it on a perfect burn, often when you do it again the next day, it's going to be far less pretty because you know what's necessary to get up there now, you do the boulder well enough, sloppily, but not so much that you fall off... That's been my experience a few times now
Also yeah, flash mentality is important, something I'm working on as I'm starting to compete, my first ever competition was two weeks ago and there were 5 boulders I could have flashed, but didn't, which put me out of the finals alongside two dynos I couldn't do
When I first started, I had no idea about good technique, I thought my calisthenics skills would transfer so I just muscled my way up to V6s, but V6 requires so much technique I simply cant just power it through some of them.
"Done is better than perfect" - Peter McKinnon
Many times I don‘t force it so I don‘t fall funny and get injured, so it’s fear of the uncertainty I guess.
Every climb is a good climb if you learn something.
cool topic! so how do we climb beautiful lol
I would still not call it climbing ugly but being fearless to try hard.
I climb ugly pretty much every session when I’m at the point of trying at my max grade
Team Burnt Titanium 🔥
As in climbing as in life. Sometimes it's necessary to climb ugly. :)
As a late starter, I'm working on technique and improving all the time, but I often get told "Looking strong Cam", which I interpret as 'your technique is shit and I have no idea how you just wrestled your way up that'. Ie Ugly climbing at its best.
The farmer never plants if he waits for perfection
I'm not quite sure I understand the message here. If its ok to climb 'ugly' = then its okay to climb ugly? The problem seems to be linked with people WATCHING someone climbing ugly = Ego Issues. If anyone sends a problem/route - I don't believe they have ever been questioned about if it was ugly?
For me, use ugly - along with any other tool in your box to climb, keeping it safe as possible.
So there is value in how I climb
Why is this on my feed