Smyth Busters: Does a 5.56 NATO Bullet Tumble in Flight?
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2024
- Is it an AR-15 myth? Or a 5.56 NATO cartridge myth? Or is it NOT a myth at all? One thing is certain: it's been circulating for a long time. Brownells Gun Techs™ Steve and Caleb, our intrepid Smyth Busters, are here to tell us if the 5.56 / .233 bullet really TUMBLES after it leaves the barrel. That tumbling, goes the theory, is why the 5.56 bullet is so deadly: it's goin' sideways when it hits the target! Maybe something IS sideways here. Steve postulates this notion got started in the early days of the M16, when the standard rifling twist was a slow 1-12". The 55 grain bullet did tumble AFTER it hit the target, but it flew straight and true from the muzzle until then. In order for any bullet to be accurate, it CAN'T actually "tumble" on its way to the target. The heavier 62 and 77 grain bullets WILL yaw after they exit a 1-12" twist barrel, but they don't actually tumble end over end! And at ranges 300 yards or less, they will be moderately accurate, at least close enough for government work. If you want to shoot heavier 62 or 77 grain bullets in your AR-15, get a barrel with the modern, faster, 1-7" and 1-8" twist rates. So the myth that the 5.56 NATO bullet tumbles through the air is BUSTED.
Building a replica of an early AR-15 / M16? You can get a Brownells Retro Rifle® M16A1 "skinny"-profile barrel with 1-7" or 1-12" rifling.
That look when Caleb said “it’s not going to change anything Steve“ I feel like I’ve had that same work about things my friends and family have said 😂😂
At 3:13
Saw a good video by Paul Harrel. The 62 grain rounds were key hole in under 100 meters. But the idea that the round was designed to tumble as the left the barrel? Nah….back in 1983 in Infantry training an NCO made it a point to tell us the round would tumble ON IMPACT…but not before.
Great videos
Definitely gonna keyhole at 100 out that 1:12
Yup…sure does
@@BandGeek2210 no it doesnt....ive shot 62 grain m855 at 200 meters with 1 in 7 1 in 8 and 1 in 9. Using a magnifier I can hit an 8inch circle plate. No round that tumbles in flight is going to consistently hit an 8in target at 200 meters.
@@fujimi715 exactly…l believe that’s what l posted. That the round did NOT tumble until impact. We had the M16A1 and used 55 grain bullets. In Mr. Harrells video he shoots 62 grain from an A1 platform….with a slower rate of turn. Those rounds were did key hole. His video is on the internet.
@@fujimi715 our barrels had something like a 1 in 12 rate of turn….l have a rifle that also has a 1 in 9…lt did not key hole. When we switched from M16A1 to the M16A2…we switched to 62 grain ammo
I always love to hear it said (usually by the same guy), how 5.56 tumbles to create these devastating wounds AND at the same time was meant only to wound the enemy to take several soldiers out of the fight with one bullet. Talk about magical!
Seinfeld magic spit episode
I believe the idea is a wounded soldier takes more people and resources to take care of them than a dead one
@@mhughes1160 that fuddlore that only applies to wealthy nations. You think some poor farmers are gonna waste 4 soldiers to go pick up a dying man in the open fields? If it were true than the 22lr would be the ultimate military cartridge.
@@mhughes1160 Sort of. What that is, (I think) is a legend by the troops to explain why they had .22s instead of .30 cals.
Someone speculated without much information on .22 centerfire and what it does when it's over 2600-2800-3000 fps, and guessed that it was a 'wounding thing.'
A similar misconception is 'you only use 10% of your brain. Totally false. What IS true is only 10% of your brain does the 'thinking' and the other 90% is support structure called glia.
So yes, you only use 10% of your brain to think.... because the other 90% is designed to feed and suppose the cells that do the thinking, not because you have 90% of your brain waiting for you to get amazing psychic powers. But somewhere a stoner overhead medical students talking about brain anatomy.... and so a legend was born.
When I was in boot I had some old heads telling me that after enough rounds go through the barrel, the imperfections cause tumble. Yes in sustained combat it will happen, but it's highly unlikely. However if you are in a serious long engagement, these anomalies do happen. Modern rifling and engineering and metallurgy basically negates this, but it is something to be aware of
Misconceptions have a life of their own. A good buddy, having zero exposure to firearms prior to his USMC boot camp, came home telling me the M16 bullet left the barrel and curved up before coming back down.
My eyes glazed, not knowing where to begin. He was gung-ho going to SE Asia in '67, so I let him believe what he wanted.
@Patrick Faricy correct.the trajectory based on the 25 300m sight in is curved. Doesnt mean the bullet rises. You can shoot it exactly flat and curved down if you wanted. But no reason to zero it like that foe a combat setting
Pretty clear that this would be a misunderstanding of someone hearing someone else talking about terminal ballistics of yaw and confusing it with external ballistics. If you are getting keyholing from bad stabilization you're not going to hit anything past 50yds..
Exactly. The idea was the bullet flops on it's side when you hit a man in the chest and then breaks up. Keyholing isn't a part of that, key holing can happen with really wrong bullet weight to twist matchups, but it's not the old 'tumbling bullet' legend.
If the rounds tumbled like some try to claim, the rifle would have stormtrooper accuracy 😂
The myth comes from the fact that the round tumbles once it hits the target. Same as the myth about 556 being designed to wound not kill. It was designed to cause serious tissue damage same as an other weapon
@fujimi715 so when it keyholes paper targets thats from tumbling on impact with
@fujimi715 so when it keyholes paper targets thats from tumbling on impact with
@fujimi715 so when it keyholes paper targets thats from tumbling on impact with
@fujimi715 so when it keyholes paper targets thats from tumbling on impact with
The early Colt AR-15s had a 1-in-14" rifling twist, which barely stabilized a 55gr bullet and tumbled like mad through soft tissue. Testing in Arctic conditions revealed that they also tumbled while in flight thanks to the sub-zero temps, and the accuracy was terrible. When the Army adopted the rifle as the M-16 the twist was tightened to 1-in-12", stabilizing the bullet in cold weather but also slightly reducing its ability to tumble when it hit soft tissue.
BTW another "myth" I often heard was that a 5.56 bullet could penetrate an engine block yet would glance off a leaf. Uh-huh.
The original AR15 rifling twist was actually 1:14. The Army changed it to 1:12 to better stabilize both ball and tracer rounds (cold weather performance may have been a contributing factor). There has been much debate over whether or not this was a good idea. Each theory has its supporters and detractors. The more I study ballistic performance, the less certain I become that any one theory is best because so many factors can come into play.
If you're key holing your paper, you probably need a new barrel?!
Check your twist rate and bullet weight first!
It doesn’t like the ammunition rifles can be Karens to 😁
@@wrecktech Unless you're running a 1-12 twist, with 77gr projectiles, a key hole is a bad barrel, usually shot out, or leaded out.
@@03redrubi or damaged crown
I really enjoy this series and learn something every time. Keep up the good work.
MCRD Boot Camp 1971. Hand me down M 14. Thereafter every time I fired for qualification on a KD range it was with hand me down armory M 16's. 200,300 and 500 yds. With neither rifle did I see anything but round holes when pulling targets in the butts and I never dropped a round out of the black at 500 yds.
Cool! The Corps was still issuing M14s when I attended OCS in '75.
Thank you for your video. Regarding 1:31, for those who are unfamiliar with the motion of flying objects, yaw, pitch & roll refer to the 3 rotational axes of an object in flight. Yaw is the deviation from side to side of the nose of a bullet along its ballistic flight. Pitch is the deviation up or down of the nose of a bullet along its ballistic flight. Roll is the gyroscopic stabilizing spin of a bullet along its ballistic flight. A bullet with minimal yaw deviation is more accurate than a tumbling bullet. A greater gyroscopic stabilizing spin on a bullet can be imparted by a faster twist rate from the helical rifling grooves in the gun barrel.
Succinct and helpful comment, tyvm.
Great info, thank you. All my builds are 1-7 twist and I use 55-62 grain only, and only 5.56 NATO. Mine are certainly accurate out to the 100 yards I have access to shot. Always groups around the size of a old silver half dollar
55 best suited out a 1:9 barrel or less. Your 1:7 performs best with 62 and up
55s shoot just fine out of a 1:7. The only time you’ll have a problem is with thin jacketed varmint bullets and soft points. The jacket is too thin when you spin the snot out of a bullet. You will occasionally get a “poof” where the projectile disintegrates on the way to the target. If you’re pushing them much over 3000fps you’ll probably get several poofs per hundred.
@@jwilsonhandmadeknives2760 seen that with 40g. Never 55. I haven't had a 1:7 thank do better than 1.5 moa with 55
@@nateburns5933 I've never gotten much of anything to talk about with 55s, either. They'll do okay out of my service rifles with 1:7 20" barrels out to 200. I can't get 55s to shoot anything close to what 69s will do, that's for sure. I don't buy or use 55s for anything anymore other than blaster ammo for my general purpose ARs.
About the poofing, I have friends who report they get poofers from Hornady 75s, too (the cheap ones, not the BTHP which shoot like a dream). I think it has something to do with the core of the bullet itself. I got into a lot of 55 fmj's that I bought a metric butt ton of years ago and loaded them during the ammo crunch. That lot of 55s couldn't hit a barn door from the inside.
Live and learn. 1978 DD214MC and I have seen many keyholes in targets at 100m. We had the old M16 A1 and I own an SP1 built in 75 that will keyhole targets at 100 yards with 55gr FMJ ammo. It's still a nail driver to this day.
Morning gentlemen, thanks for the chuckle. The look on Caleb's face at 3:16 is priceless! :) Good to see the regular coffee cups in use again too. In an ever changing world the cups supply some continuity. Stay well and thanks again.
The Catstronaut mug is second to none. 😼
Man you guys took back to memory lane!
I went to Basic in C/146 Inf, Ft. Knox and qualified with a M-16 just like that.
The story I've heard/read was that the AR-15/M-16 design team, led by Stoner's top assistant Jim Sullivan (because Stoner wasn't interested in working on a 5.56 version of his AR-10) did in fact want the bullet to tumble, but when it hit the enemy, not in the air. This was to get around the Hague Convention restrictions against expanding projectiles, restrictions that did not actually apply because the US never signed that article of the treaty but were observed by the US anyway. A few of the original M-16s had very slow twist barrels, 1 in 14, but the accuracy of those rifles was terrible because that slow of a twist did not spin the bullets fast enough and so they would wobble in the air. The designers then found that a 1 in 12 twist would produce tumbling on target but not in the air (not within a few hundred yards anyway) so that twist rate became standard. Don't hold me to this, but I think a few of the 1 in 14 rifles were actually issued to soldiers in Vietnam (800 is the number that sticks in my head) but were quickly replaced with 1 in 12 versions. If I've gotten any or all of this wrong, forgive me as I am working from memory here.
M193 bullet shot from M16 doesn't even tumble when it hits the tissue, it fragments into tiny pieces making lots of small wound channels. I hear lot of discussion about this also. Some people say it tumbles in human tissue. Maybe M855 bullet shot from short barrel carbine does, I don't know.
I love the old School AR 15 like the one you are showing. To me its the best one to buy if you can find any good luck.
Any bullet may tumble after it’s transonic zone but that’s 800yds for the 5.56, until then it’s rarely ever tumbling unless you are getting a baffle strike
Ft. Riley, KS, early 1980's Firing M-16A1's on KD range. No problems until we moved back to the 500 Yard line. Then quite a few rounds were keyholing.
Yep, had this conversation a few times with those who can't accept being wrong. A question I ask them is , "If the bullet is tumbling, how does it get to the intended target with any degree of accuracy, if at all?" After the "cow looking at a new gate stare" you might get a series of Star Wars based physics explanations. It gets pretty funny. These guys have never thrown a curve-ball or slider much less hit one.
My brother was in the Marines and he told me the 5.56 bullet dropped and then came back up between 25 and 100 yards, which he said is why a 25yd zero will also be close at 100 yards. forgetting that gravity exists.
I've had a similar argument with two family members that heard some things about the 5.56 caliber tumbling. They were ready to bet the farm they are right but I wouldn't let it go because I know what I'm talking about. I wish I had just shown them this short vid and checkmated them on the spot.
Especially at short range, tumbling/keyholing can be caused by the bullet slightly contacting a part of the muzzle device.
In 1987 the British Army was transitioning from 7.62mm NATO to 5.56mm NATO (SS109); our SA80s used the latter and had a 1:7 twist. At the same time, we were changing barrels on HK53 5.56mm SMGs, which we had a number of in service. This weapon had, for a short time, 1:12 M193 & 1:7 SS109 versions in service. My Boss announced (we were all Armourers and liked to think we knew a bit) that: if you fired a 1:12 barrel HK53 with a SS109 round through it, the rifling would strip out!
I had been in the Army for 4 years and he was upward of 20 years service...so I nodded and kept on working. Inwardly I thought 'rubbish' and I still do.
I believe the difference in the 2 rounds is apparent in the commencement of rifling, where M193 (or .223 Remington) rounds were capable of accepting a longer bullet, whereas the SS109 was standardised and therefore not open to change.
I'm fairly happy one could load up SS109 and shoot it through a 1:12 rifled barrel; but I wonder whether the slightly different commencement of rifling would simulate a worn barrel and create inaccuracy (maybe even yaw) at 300m+.
Later in my career, I had to explain to some of my colleagues why our Radway Green SS109 rounds fired from an M4 Carbine were generating a stoppage (due to low gas pressure in the carrier). We had a large amount of this RG ammo, which creates different port pressures than M855. If one loaded a mixed magazine of RG & M855 in a magazine, then we started to get a lot of stoppages. I always understood it to be a function of propellant shape and that RG rounds were designed for a piston operated system, where spherical propellant works best in a direct impingement system. It always seemed odd that if I changed gas rings on the bolt and added some oil (aka liquid engineering), the M4 worked for a couple of magazines before it started to struggle.
I'm wide open to debate!
Love y’all’s videos.
ROT and BC of the bullet has lot more to do with it along with conditions under which the round was fired. A 22lr will leave keyhole in high enough wind at a closer distance because the stabilizing can't overcome the side load. 6mm jhp in a custom barrel my dad had made was ejecting the jacket because it was spun too fast. Same exactly rounds we'd used in the 1 6 barrel survived and worked to make a sub1.0 group at 1000 meters shot from the 1 7 and in fact later took the same riffle and increased the velocity to 4137 making it even more flat shooting.
Stoner design the gun with a 1:14 twist rate which stabilized the bullet enough to satisfy the accuracy requirements of the military but caused devastating wounds when it tumbled in the target. The military changed it to a 1:12 when they adopted it for service.
I heard the same thing. So I believe the early Armalite 15 had the 1 in 14 and the M16 and M16A1 had the 1 in 12
The longer the bullet, the greater the twist rate required to stabilize that bullet in flight. When a bullet is made longer, unless it is made from lightweight materials, it generally gets heavier. Thus longer/heavier bullets need a tighter twist rate than shorter/lighter bullets. In fact, the reason the Army wanted a 1:7 twist rate wasn't to stabilize the 62-grain M855 (which will stabilize in 1:9 just fine), it was to stabilize the M856 tracer round round, which is somewhat longer though not much heavier (approx. 64 grains).
Don’t forget fleet yaw that is very minor movement of the bullet point since it’s not exactly the center of spin that’s why when it finally hits tissue and starts to actually tumble there is the inconsistency of what way it will hook/turn when the bullet attempts to flip like a rain drop to put the most mass in the direction of highest friction. With an m193 aka 55gr fmj provided it has struck the tissue with a velocity of roughly 2500fps or higher the when attempting to invert the force will be greater than the jacket can handle causing it to fail breaking apart.
Was just watching another video and that "tumbling" was mentioned. I had bunches and bunches of experience shooting those 55 grain in a1s and working the target pit, coaching a running gun team and running the range at Ft Bragg. Shots fired from out to 400 yards. Never saw one key hole. It has to hit something to tumble and even then maybe, depending on what and where. When rhat bullet is spininh somewhere around 190k rpm in a 12 inch twist it would be difficult to tumble in such a short time with rpm vs velocity.
True experience. Shooter at 200 yards and some dumb a shot before command and target up. Bullet hit the berm ricocheted and stuck right between my finger in the wood frame, point first. Still have the bullet.
Answering the question before hitting the play button: MAYBE. Depends on twist rate, depends on bullet weight, depends on bullet length. Is the round DESIGNED to tumble? No. Will it tumble under various conditions? Quite possibly, dependent on the factors I already mentioned, and probably others I haven't considered.
Now to hit play and have my statements confirmed... Yep, just as I expected. They just didn't "think it quite as deep" as I was doing. Same correct conclusion, though :)
Here’s a good one for you. Once while pulling a target at a vintage military match at 200 yards I saw the puff of dirt in front of me pulled the target and there was a perfect profile of a 150gr spritzer 30 cal bullet hole outside the 5 ring at 4 o’clock. Of course the shooter pulled the shot and the bullet skidded across the top of the concrete target pits.
Sierra 90g Matchking in a 12 twist, Awesome 😎
I've shot sight-in targets at 25 and 50 meters with my .223 Wylde chambered AR which has a 1-8 twist and will stabilized a Sierra .22 Caliber 77 Grain HPBT MatchKing. but my friends AR with a 1-9 twist would key-hole at both distances nearly every time. So safe to say my 1-8 with that BC bullet was just stable.
I've been shooting for 7 years and in the yrs of shooting steel case ammo have never see on paper a key hole or tumbled round. The papers have always been a paper punch hole! Maybe just me. I'll be calling the tech line yo ask a few questions! Love you guys been watching you guy on old deck tops years ago
Shotgun slug at 150 yards? I've seen few sideways holes from this.
Shooting through something commonly results in a sideways impact.
I've seen them tumble after hitting a blade of grass, then key- holing the target .but if it tumbled straight out - you'd hear it buzzing same way when you use an oblong stone from a slingshot. ( If that were the case we'd be better off using a slingshot).
My opinion is that I love the old A1 handguards!
You guys are so good. It would be hard not to say, "What, are you kidding me?"
Y’all are awesome, I love the knowledge you both provide in these reviews and “smythbuster” episodes.
Oh the family gathering conversations haha, I like that! Thanks again gentlemen.
A1 in BCT I we were told that the round rises and the strike points (same) are 25/250 meters. The round on impact the front end slows and the back end keeps going that is what causes the trauma and a buzz saw effect. The VC called the A1 the Black Devil, the round created small entrance and a huge exit wound. Tropic Lightning!
Brownells 1939-2024 RIP...We will miss you !!! Corn by one's onw bushel.
When I was in Vietnam we were told to avoid shooting thru brush because it would not hit your sited target. Full auto was best in the bush providing you had the ammo.
I can say FROM EXPERIENCE that M855A1 tumbles through the air at very short ranges from a 14.5" barrel with a 1:7 twist (when it came from the factory).
Source: I got issued an M4A1 with a shot-out barrel that had been used and abused by dozens of other IBOLC Lieutenants, SLC NCOs, and basic trainees at Fort Benning.
I have shot 75 grain HPBT bullets through a H&R Handi-Rifle (1 in 12 twist) and the bullet went through a cardboard target dead sideways at 40 yards! iI thought this was just an anomalies, so I re-tested it again, with the same result. I even brought out a chronograph the next week, thinking that even though the round felt like it was a full power load, it might mot be. but the bullet passed over the chronograph in the 2800 fps range, so that was not the case. the rest of the loaded rounds got torn down, and the bullets got traded for 40 grain bullets. we shot a tree limb with one of those 75 grain rounds, and the damage was amazing. I'm not sure if that was how this rumor started or not. but I can see how this type of information could easily get twisted around. especially with those individuals who have a talent for embellishing stories.
everytime I heard someone say that, I automatically thought it was not true, I think some folks started to say the wrong thing not understanding, it tumbles on impact vs tumble when it leaves the barrel. and all the way to the target.
I have talked to those that think they have a clue about the round. I tell them of a father and son shooting out to 1,000 yards normally. There is no way a "tumbling" round is going anywhere near a target at that range.
At Benning I had a weapons’ pool M16 that keyholed M855 on an Alt-C range. Sideways bullets at 25m.
I qualed with a 23 and walked off the range flat disgusted.
Great explanation. Rifle ammo such as 223/556 is still supersonic at 500 yards, so in general it shouldn't tumble unless the barrel twist is not enough to spin the bullet to the point of stabilization. Could there be a few cases where this happens for some odd reason? Absolutely. But exceptions don't negate a rule. Unfortunately, some see the exceptions and just run with it and given that there are more people lacking the right knowledge that those with it, the exception suddenly becomes fact.
Thanks for answering a question that has actually been a thorn in my side (those darn family members, but you gotta love'em).
Exceptions do negate a rule thats why theres no rule saying every single bullet will fly stable. But yes, people like to run away with things for entertainment/debate.
Back when M16 was sent to Vietnam the trash talk was that if the bullet hit anything it would tumble. If it was a twig then the flight path would be effected. If it was a person it would make a bigger hole and thus more damage.
From the Israeli point of view the advantage of more amo to shoot was a big deal.
THANKS
Back in the 1960s there was a Major News Magazine (I forget which one) produced a special about the War in South Vietnam. One of the illustrations showed the M-16 firing bullets that tumbled BEFORE hitting the target. Ah, disinformation in the major media is not a new thing. Geoff Who kept a copy for years, then lost it in the 90s moves somehow.
Every time I shot my AR at paper targets, the holes the bullets made were perfectly round .22 caliber holes like they're supposed to be. If they were keyholing, I would be taking a serious look at the rifle to see what's wrong with it. I've shot all different bullet weights in my AR and none ever tumbled in flight to the target. I suppose under certain circumstances this can happen, but it never happened to me.
With all of the high-speed photography options available, why are we still guessing?
Caleb's family member probably comes wearing a Christmas sweater with bullets and beer patterns on it🤣
I've always understood they tumble when they hit the target. When I was pulling targets I see keyhole hits too. (USMC94)
Keyhole is the best description. Ive only had that when you described exactly what happens…long slow twist and heavy bullets. Def a busted myth.
Franklin armory makes a rifle that keyholes on purpose
Does 5.56 tumble? If you ask that question then you have never shoot a paper target with 5.56....
Sadly I don't think anyone who believes this myth will listen to you two gentlemen....or shoot a paper target to find out for themselves.
I've had this argument with a kid working the gun counter at a big box store. I asked him, if that was true, why do they even go through the bother of rifling the barrel? If the bullet is going to tumble through the air like a poorly thrown football, why not just have a smoothbore?!
I have a 1/9 twist barrel that loves 77gr smk and a 1/7 that won’t group below 2” with it. That same 1/7 barrel with group 1 moa with 55gr stuff 🤷♂️
I really like these videos
Good Info.
223 Wylde in 1/7 18” with 77gr is my preferred choice 🎉
You right about the M16 5.56 bullet during the Vietnam conflict, when it hit a body the bullet would tumble and it made a nasty hole coming out of a body.
I am sure when I shoot paper at the range, my bullets are tumbling, but I am just so precise at my ranging, they always cut a clean hole in the paper.
Thank you .... now I have proof and will refer to all my 5.56 user friends and family :)
Alright. Next episode I wanna see the dern coffee. Prove to me that there is in fact a beverage in those cups because I’m not buying it.🤨
I understood that the round had a greater tendency to tumble inside the target than heavier .30 caliber bullets not that it tumbled in flight.
A 1-9 twist rate will not stabilize a 62 grain m855 that’s why 1-6 twist is popular and 1-8 twist is the sweet spot in between and is most popular
Ive had a handful tumble out of a few thousand rounds at the range honestly with a 1:9 demonstrated by keyholes at 100 yards with 55 grain. I stopped using them as a result. 62 grain shoots very well for me.
@Bob Thompson yea... Boy arent people surprised these days lol.
Idk if I've ever heard that it tumbled through the air, just that it'll tumble and yaw when it hit a target, making it dump its energy quickly and do a lot of damage
I have had some 55 grain steel case (key hole) target at less then 36 yards with a 16" 1-8 twist barrel but not necessarily tumble.
Should not be doing that at all. 1 in 8 is a good combo. I've shot 55gr and 62gr out of 1 in 8 10.5in barrel and zero issues from either
@@fujimi715 cheap steel case ammo is not consistent, you may not have had no issues, but that doesn't mean it is not going to happen, just count yourself lucky. but it can happen with any ammo and any gun no matter how much you put into the firearm. ask Brownells they will tell as they did in this particular video he mention it.
I never use anything but M193. In my old SP1 with the slow twist it's a one-shot deer killer. It shoots great out of my newer 1-8 twist ARs so if it ain't broke, I'm not gonna fix it.
Yeah its rediciculous to think that the gun tumbles in flight until it actually impacts something, with the exception of yaw, which can be affected by twist rate, and bullet weight, and other factors.
With that being said, the bullet design of the 5.45x39 was absolutely designed to tumble when it hit a somewhat hard object such as a bone, they intentionally left a cavity in the nose of the bullet so that it could bend the bullet causing it to tumble inside the body cavity even more so, or quicker than a standard bullet.
Please Do a video explaining "twist rates". I admit I'm a bit confused 😕.
Does copper or carbon fouling corrode your bore? The lore says the electrochemical differences between copper and iron can cause oxidation. It also says carbon fouling holds moisture, moisture + steel = oxidation, but you guys said you hardly ever clean your bore
So what I gathered was that, a heavy bullet in a high twist rate barrel would cause “tumbling”. But this would not be the case in like a 1/7 barrel.
My question really is what happens to the bullet beyond 223/556’s effective range. Does it not tumble or does it nose dive, what happens to the bullet in flight. That’s what I was hoping to get out of the video lol😅
Once it goes subsonic it can tumble or behave erratically
What would you consider "effective range"?
@@Rumblestrip funny you mention, it’s not what I consider effective(being im still learning), it’s what I was told by a vet family member who referenced a army manual. Said something like 550 yrds effective range for 556. Took him at his word being he’s the one with deployments under his belt
Caleb, I feel your pain! I have family members just as hard headed!
In the 80’s we where battle sighted to 300 meters. M16A1 55 grain 1/12. Perhaps when it hits flesh it tumbled. Still shoot a 1/12 today.
Can attest that a .223 did frequently tumble hitting a target at short range in a Ruger Mini-14 from the mid-1980s. Those had a 1-in-10" twist at that time. I doubt they were tumbling in the air. My guess is that they were the common 55 grain bullets.
This one really surprised me in a bad way. When I read the title of the video I was thinking who started this myth. Having seen some people shot with M855 from M16's and M4's, I can say definitely that the M855 does tumble after hitting its intended target and sometimes even breaks into two pieces. Given the construction of the SS109 bullet it does not surprise me. Usually the base of the bullet will be going faster because it is heavier than the lighter tip and will break apart just forward of the cannelure of the bullet.
My question to y’all, when will production of the retro line of AR-15’s start back up again? Some products have been out for over 2 years now.
I have shot thousands of rounds. Tumbling bullets do not leave round holes in targets.
Fade out to a duet mug sip and the Rolling Stones Tumbling Dice.....You got to roll me and call me the tumblin'.......bullet
I was actually told during basic training in Army Basic 1983, that as the bullet reaches 300 yards the it will start to tumble in-flight.
I once shot light frangible bullets out of a 1:8 barrel and they keyholed into the guy's target next to me at 10 yards. Changed ammo with another guy for the class and we were both good too go.
There's more to this than bullet type and twist rate 😬
Exactly. An AR15 myth. It can tumble on impact but does not tumble in flight. A box of factory ammo will state on the box what twist rate gives the best accuracy for that type and weight of bullet but that is accuracy, not stability. Andy over on the Practical Accuracy channel will tell you all you need to know about twist rates and why they really don't matter.
My Ruger number three shot well with Winchester 64 grain power point never had a deer walk away from it the twist rate could have been 1 in 10 are 1 in 12 but I had it sighted in at a hundred yards the deer that I shot with it were 50 and under yards away.
I would say it depends on barrel length and twist rate a 7.5 8.5 yes as soon as it leaves the barrel
Pretty simple. An over stable bullet points the same direction as when it left the barrel. But the bullet trajectory curves. Thus it now is not pointing in the direction of flight so when it strikes the body it is at an angle causing it to tumble in the wound, not in flight. The further the range it is shot the greater the bullet angle is different from the flight direction.
Not in flight, but the base heavy construction of the projectiles make them yaw on impact at velocities of about 2,300 fps or higher.
I had a .223 savage action with a polygon barrel that shot dime size 5rd groups at 100yds using 53gr sierra target bullets. I was a rookie then. 68gr ammo keyholed at same conditions. was not any id on the barrel and the store I bought it from was no help to id it.
Enjoy all your videos but as a novice shooter sometimes don't grasp some of the lingo. For example, in this vid you reference "twist" of the barrel. What does that mean? What is the difference between slow twist and fast, etc.? I own a Saiga AK that shoots 5.45. wondering what twist of barrel it is. Thanks
"Minute of soldier" ...LOL
I was talking to a former US solder that served from 74 to 85 and he swore that the bullet on the AR-15 was designed to tumble in flight.
When are the retro rifles coming back? I'd like to buy one.
Paul harrel did this in a 55g vs m855
I think it being on the edge of “stability” and when it tumbles and fragments upon impact is what ppl say.