Matching the ammo type to the markings on the barrel instead of the receiver is a good point. It sounds super obvious now but I hadn't thought it until you brought it up.
That's because SAAMI almost always informed based on chamber pressure not barrel. Kind of hard to match ammo to a 223 Wylde barrel when there is no such thing as a 223 Wylde cartridge. It's all the chambering
@@mikeyb.3306 I would at least stop making them on factory built AR or other semi automatic variants. It's nice to have the option to install one later on down the road but not for a combat rifle.
Caleb is a breath of fresh air. Clean cut, articulate and knowledgeable. This is one of the best videos I've seen on the subject. Just last week, shooting an older CAR-15, had fired several magazines without issue. When I got to the mag's with M-855 in them, the rifle started throwing a huge muzzle flash with twice as much recoil. Actually jammed the gun a couple times. The rifle has a .223 chamber but has had thousands of rounds of M-193 5.56 ammo thru it. It definitely didn't like the 855 stuff. Probably won't be shooting M-855 thru that rifle anymore. Listen to Caleb people.
I think that's what we're seeing industry wide in a lot of .223/.223W/5.56 chambers is a huge variances on tolerances. Many ammo manufacturers since 2017 have dialed pressures back 10% because of complaints of popped primers or ammo issues. This has is very apparent on M193 variants.
I want you guys to know that I have never watched one of your gun-care videos that I didn't learn something important. Thank you for doing this channel!!
You briefly mentioned "wear" on the weapons in general when using different ammunition types. I'm a small arms repairer in the Army. We've been using the M855A1 for a while, and we (collectively, the repairers) have seen increased wear that we've contributed to the ammunition. The army had to make a new standard for barrel erosion because of it. Not to mention damage to the feed ramps from the rounds not being presented at the normal angle of the M855 out of legacy magazines. We've also noticed that the bolt rings seem to wear faster now. Ive been trying to see if there is noticeable wear being caused to M4s in other places because of the ammunition. I haven't noticed anything else, but M855A1 is a pretty spicy round, so i imagine its only a matter of time.
Small Arms Solutions has an article on M855A1 EPR vs M855. "Looking at chamber pressure, both cartridges were fired in a 14.5 inch M4A1, both projectiles are a 62 grain projectile. The M855 has an average chamber pressure of 51,522 psi, which is within the 52-55,000 psi range the M4 and all 5.56mm military rifles are designed. The M855A1 is increased vastly to 61,830. In fact, you see pressure levels as high as 62,900 psi. Please keep in mind that a proof cartridge is 70,000 psi. Clearly the rifle is being significantly driven past its design parameters. The increase in chamber pressure also increases the bolt velocity substantially driving the cyclic rate much faster, which increases parts wear and service life of both the bolt and barrel."
If only citizens could get their hands on that round. Fun to know the army can just use whatever they want (aside from HP) and it is banned for civilians. Fair fight.
@@Enjoyer.762Your thoughts on how about chamber throat wear? Seems with that much increased pressure it might be causing havoc on the throat then compromise accuracy!
I appreciate when an organization can update past misunderstandings. This is a learning process, and info is vital to safety and longevity, both to human life and the firearm. Handloaders have all this to overcome, apply and disseminate to make a quality product that may be passed to the next generation. Case capacity affecting pressures and velocities, chamber and brass resizing dimensions vary according to application, powder and bullet lots can be inconsistent. The more we know about the effects and outcomes of variables, the better we become.
Good luck in the Gundie awards, Caleb! Everyone who's ever given him a hard time about his hair needs to go give him a vote for Most Dapper Influencer as an act of repentence.
I know they test pressures at different points in the chamber or cartridge between .223 and 5.56, just always wondered why no one seems to have tested either cartridge using one system on both. Ya know..for "science"
They have. The pressures vary depending on the chambering. (See ballistictools article on this.) The presumed reason for this is the length of the leade in the chamber specification and specification for the cartridge length (and probably specified powders). However, for the specific loading the pressure testing is part of specification. So, NATO spec has a pressure test standard and SAAMI spec has a pressure test standard.
Actually the youtube channel Bolt Action Reloading did a test including measuring pressures. His findings mirror what Caleb is saying. Ironically the opposite is true for 308 and 7.62x51.
Having witnessed, first hand on a range, an AR-15 blow up on a range when 5.56mm is fired through a .223 chambered AR, there is a very important difference. This occurred almost 30 years ago, in the early 90's. I quickly correct people when they say there is no difference. Luckily the friend shooting the rifle was not injured, but the rifle was destroyed.
Its very credible on your part to come back on this and make a deep dive, if you will, to clear up some of the misunderstandings of the previous video, kudos to you. These are tools, machines, yes they experience wear and tear, and require maintenance, just like a motor vehicle. You must “fuel” them properly, like a car, needs x-octane, or your body, or needs x protein.
I have a Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle from '99 and although their are no barrel markings for the caliber, it is marked on the receiver CAL. .223 not .223 Remington. The manual states that either .223 (5.56mm) or standard US military ammo can be used. Ruger also confirmed that all Mini14's with the exception of the Mini-14 target model, have 5.56mm chambers, so either .223 sporting ammo or 5.56 NATO ammunition can be safely fired.
One nuance to keep in mind is import restrictions. I've heard that Saiga rifles were imported with .223 Remington marked on the receiver while being actually chambered in 5.56x45 NATO because they would be considered a sporting guns rather than military ones. I don't believe the barrels are marked with any chambering.
@@Ratkill9000 You're close; it makes firing .223 more accurate than it would be compared to firing it out of a 5.56 barrel, while still allowing you to fire the higher pressure 5.56 without issues. Firing .223 out of a 5.56 barrel is fine, but will be less accurate than a .223 barrel. Firing 5.56 out of a .223 barrel can cause issues because of the higher pressure.
@@Ratkill9000 Is there any real proof that the Wylde is more accurate than .223 (not 5.56)? Guys at Camp Perry say there is no proof and it is just marketing. They say there is no solid research testing that proves this hearsay.
A few years ago, I visited the Hornady and Sierra closed testing ranges. They each use a benched actions for each the .223 and 5.56 testings and for accuracy monitorings. Their test match rounds all shot one hole groups. I asked about the Wylde and the testers both said the Wylde is a great marketing move. When you eliminate the human factor, environmental, and barrel variations, both the .223 and 5.56 are as accurate as can be.
Great video, excellent info! I received some bulk reload 5.56 NATO ammo, which may have been loaded hot. I don't have chrono data, but will relate my experiences using those rounds in three firearms. (Be sure to scroll down to the Mini 14 info.) Rock River Arms (Advanced Tactical Hunter model) 5.56 Wylde chamber purchased in 2017: Nothing unusual to report. Colt AR-15 HBAR (round handguard, open sights), chamber marked .223, purchased from original owner in 1995: Buffer seemed to travel to max rearward position, and could hear a ringing sound (I think from buffer spring) through hearing protection after each shot. Factory .223 rounds did not do this. Ruger Mini-14 Ranch rifle, stainless steel, purchased new in late 1980's: Significantly more perceived recoil from these rounds than factory .223 rounds. The brass was ejected even more vigorously than normal. I stepped off the distance where the brass ended up in mowed lawn and estimate 27 yards travel! The firearm did not appear to be damaged in any way, but I never shot that ammo out of that firearm again.
8:05 I've actually had that happen well shooting my 1911 . I had just bought a box of 45 acp ( not + P ) and I noticed a huge kick and fire ball . Stopped and took a look then seen a primer laying there on the next round . That's when I noticed that my hand had powder on and was a little burnt from being peppered by let gunpowder. Took that box home and found sixteen rounds out of 50 where way over charged.
@@Portuguese-linguica Wouldn't have guessed Winchester. I haven't had any bad boxes. Maybe they corrected the mistake. Anything made by humans is imperfect.
Thanks this answers why my bolt isn’t rocking Back correctly on my .556 daniels. I just recently tried .223 in the Daniels and it’s a no go even though the manufacturer said .223 is ok to use. Live and learn.
If you have any doubts go with vanilla 223 commercial ammo. I have a 5.56 chamber gauge and throat reamer. My SP-1 1974 production passed. The AR-180 had one tiny burr in the throat. Two brand new 5.56 DPMS barrels both had serious throat burrs that took a few turns of the reamer to get a go with the gauge. I have fired 5.56 in the SP-1 and it is weaker than some of my varmint loads. If you are reloading, go by the most recent published reloading date for your components. Family pay for hunting trip business was ammo reloading until the Mid 70's,
Sometimes. I have a .357 Magnum-marked revolver that I fire a lot of .38 Specials in. It will also fire .38 Short Colt and .38 Long Colt ammo. Perfectly safe with all.
Oh boy. I am new to all this and I have just bought my first AR lower. I haven't seen any talks of this or even companies giving these specifics in their products. Just as I thought I knew what to look for, I now have to start at square one.
I saw a different video discussing the differences between 5.56 and .223 and they also said the pressures of these rounds were different mainly due to the differences in the ways they measured between the NATO method and the civilian method. They did say that when they used the civilian method of pressure testing ammo on the 5.56 ammo, they got very similar pressure values. They went on to say that the pressure differences is mainly due where each method measures the pressure at with in the chamber. This is not to say that all 5.56 rounds can be fired in a .223 rifle, since some of the heavier/ longer 5.56 rounds may be too long for the .223 chamber. This later instance could cause a high pressure problem in a .223 chambered rifle.
Long story short, your video in reference stated you could shoot 5.56 in a 223 firearm. I was shocked, and shortly after it was posted, you took it down. This is now to walk back the statements from that video. Thank you.
Yes valuable to experienced but for a new person he was all too encompasses. Im a gunsmith and builder with 40 years of shooting and reloading behind me, I know what he was saying however the lay person would be lost....now that's my opinion
Colt introduced confusion to the topic 30 years ago. Sitting on my lap is an AR, and the lower markings state, " Colt SPORTER MATCH HBAR CAL. 223." The barrel is marked, " C MP 5.56 NATO 1/7 HBAR.". I like to consider this rifle as the first ever, 223 Wylde.
That Lower is Mil Spec and your barrel has passed the Magnetic Particle Inspection Test and you can shoot NATO 5.56 too but I'd check the stamp on your barrel first just to make sure... Ha ha ha ha... Nothing I'd worry about... 🇺🇸 🌎
Well, That made it clear as mud. I have a Ruger American in .223 that has the ejector missing from a round that went crazy. This was the 30th round out of a lot of 250, it popped the mag out and seized the bolt. Upon getting the bolt open I found a case with the base opened up. The round chambered fine, it just blew the base of the case out. This was a .223 commercial round with a 62 grain slug.
@@davidunderwood3605 Ammunition failures are a thing. The case failed. It happens. And it's always a good idea to let the ammunition manufacturer know. Case manufacture isn't difficult, but a lot of bad product can slip by between sample inspections during drawing and heading. I learned the hard way to visually inspect the draw constantly. Every 10 minutes, as specified in the process standard, wasn't nearly enough. Those machines are fast.
I bought a F1 firearms king FDR. It is supposed to be 223 Wylde. But my barrel isn't stamped. I spoke to F1 firearms and they said they skipped that step in building my firearm and I'm not sure how others could be skipped also. How would I found out before I shoot other then 223 ammo? Cause I have some 556 also on hand to shoot. I'm assuming a gun smith to measure the chamber. Thanks William
I have heard the same for Ruger 10/22. The chamber is not design for ammo like 22 lr stinger. Do to case length. But, I understand people still fire stinger through the rifle.
Yep. First thing to check is firing pin protrusion. .036 max. If my memory serves me right. But better double check, I'm old and my memory plays games.
CIP (the euro SAAMI) only have one entry for the 556, so 223 and 556 are tested to the same standard. as such, if you have a euro gun (or one tested by CIP), it doesnt matter, they are the same.
My ARs all have 223 Wylde barrel/chambers. The Wylde is a hybrid chamber designed to allow both ammunition types to be safely fired with good accuracy. The key phrase may be “good accuracy.”
Ok, new here to the AR platform. So I have a a SW MP15. The barrel is stamped 5.56 NATO. The store owner and sales said I could use .223. I also bought a Sig where the barrel is stamped 5.56/.223. SO..... On the SW MP15 stamped 5.56 NATO, can I not use ".223 rounds"?
I personally use .223 ammunition exclusively. I have an Anderson AM15 with 5.56/.223 stamped on the barrel. When I first purchased my weapon, I had a few boxes of 5.56 FMJ rounds and some .223 FMJBT rounds. I fired both into separate targets , to see which my weapon would perform better with. I found that the .223 held better groups with less flyers than the 5.56. I also found that the .223 performed more consistently when the barrel temperature was elevated. Now this is just my experience, and it is not a blanket statement. I would encourage everyone to shoot different loads and stick with what works best for you! I do the same with my 9MM pistols as well. I would suggest inspecting the bolt carrier group after using higher pressure ammo for any abnormal wear. Better safe than sorry.
That's if your in the u.s with a American made firearm because they use the sammi pressure testing system, so if your rifle is made in the u.s and stamped 223 that's only what you can shoot, if your in europe with a european made firearm they use the cpi testing system for example with the Bren 2ms CZ standardise their barrel for the higher 556 pressures therefore you can shoot either 556 or 223 even if the barrel is stamped 223.
Just out of curiosity...is there a recorded incident anywhere in the world, in which there was a catastrophic failure of a firearm chambered in 223 Rem, while shooting a 5.56 NATO out of it?
could only happen in a limited part of the world, as most countrys have CIP and 5.56 NATO is within spec of .223 REM CIP Thus, approved ammo in those countrys is generaly safe to use. However, individual compaibility should always be checked. One of mine had issues wit 77gr SMK loads in .223 rem.
Vlk I don't think anyone said anything about a catastrophic failure but ruptured cases, blown primers, and throat erosion have for sure happened. Long term firings of 5.56 in a .223 chamber could weaken the .223 chamber over time. So the point is its not worth firing 5.56 in .223 chambers with the damage that it can do even if it doesn't result in catastrophic failure.
Basically a firearm that runs efficiently with say Tula .223 Remington and you switch up to M855 and it starts slinging brass harder and has an increase amount of "jostle" will result after multiple 100-1000's of rounds will see an increase in parts wear, such as the gas rings, gas port, and chamber throat. You will not necessarily see your buffer spring shorten as that is more related to the number of rounds fired, but extractor spring will see accelerated wear as it is having to work harder to extract the case.
@@Mr79dream Be careful on that CIP rating. Some of those countries aren't allowed to own military caliber firearms like the 5.56x45, so the manufacturers cut "223 CIP chamber" to 5.56 dimensions and call them 223. Pretty sure CZ does that. If you were to cast a CZ 223 chamber, it would measure out to 556 dimensions, not 223 remington SAAMI dimentions.
I should have mentioned in the comment below that the Mini 14 was fired from offhand (standing) position when the 5.56 brass traveled approximately 27 yards--MUCH further than factory .223 rounds!
Years ago I mean before this video was released I wish I knew the difference between the two because I had a AR15 pistol and I shot both out of it not knowing there was a difference let’s just say I broke the bolt on it and had jams because of the ammo. So I sold that pistol. Years later I became educated and purchased a new AR15 but in 223 wylde because of the benefit it offers compared to a 556 barrel.
Ok, I have a Ruger Mini-14, and it says the chambering is .223 REM. I shot some 5.56 out of it, and after a couple of rounds, the trigger guard popped open. I snapped it back in and switched to .223 and it didn't happen again. Next time I took it out, I shot a 5.56 in it, and the trigger guard popped out again. Shot .223, and it didn't happen again. Contacted Ruger, gave them the serial number, and they said it is ok for 5.56, and that I should just bend the trigger guard in toward the trigger just a bit, to make it a tighter fit. I did that, and it basically solved the problem, but I decided to reserve this particular firearm to .223
My AK (Russian made Saiga) has a receiver marked "223 Rem". But the owners manual says 556. I've heard they put 223 on the rifle because it was imported as a hunting rifle. So which one is it? 😅
So with all that said I'd like to reaffirm that it's ok to shoot .223 in my factory built Ruger 556 ar15. Right? Sorry I'm kind of a newbie when it comes to the ar15 platform.
Can I grease the bolt lugs? On BCG Or put oil on them @ all or should I just leave a good thing alone? Thank you I really like all the videos We look @ them all the time. Thanks 🇺🇸 2A 🇺🇸
I bought an upper labeled at 5.56 and advertised but the barrel says 223 he told me newer barrels can fire both cartridges I’m really confused I don’t mind the 223 but can I put the 5.56
I would like to see a video on wylde chamber vs 556 chamber vs 223 chamber. Does 556 shoot as good from a wylde chamber as it does from a 556 chamber as well as 223 from a wylde vs 223 from a 223.
223 Wylde has the same chamber size as the 5.56 other than the throat..223 chamber has a shorter throat and chamber than either than the 5.56 or 223 Wylde..
a thought on this subject, most companies are very cost focused to increase profit. in the case of colt, which was manufacturing military barrels for M16s, why would they bother to cut a slightly different barrel for .223 for commercial AR15s? since a 5.56 barrel would handle both calibers, why not use it for both? was it an attempt to distance the AR15 from a military stigma?
Because colt is a very anti-2a company. It's why they started putting blocks in the lower receiver, to prevent civilians from using auto-sears, lightning links, and other full auto conversions.
@@jpowens2253 You better stop buying from all of them. Because the only thing they all care about is police and military contracts over the civilian market lol.
So the 223 Wylde chamber can shoot 556 & shoots 223 more accurate than a 556 chamber shoots 223 correct? If that's true why wouldn't everyone just switch to 223 Wylde chamber? I assume the 556 chamber is more reliable for a battle rifle correct? My point/question I'm getting at is which chamber is best for most robust & reliable chamber for a home defense rifle? 556, or 223wylde??
Matching the ammo type to the markings on the barrel instead of the receiver is a good point. It sounds super obvious now but I hadn't thought it until you brought it up.
That's because SAAMI almost always informed based on chamber pressure not barrel. Kind of hard to match ammo to a 223 Wylde barrel when there is no such thing as a 223 Wylde cartridge. It's all the chambering
I was thinking the exact thing. Thanks Caleb!
@@mikeyb.3306 I would at least stop making them on factory built AR or other semi automatic variants. It's nice to have the option to install one later on down the road but not for a combat rifle.
That's y I don't have markings on the receiver.
Caleb is a breath of fresh air. Clean cut, articulate and knowledgeable. This is one of the best videos I've seen on the subject. Just last week, shooting an older CAR-15, had fired several magazines without issue. When I got to the mag's with M-855 in them, the rifle started throwing a huge muzzle flash with twice as much recoil. Actually jammed the gun a couple times. The rifle has a .223 chamber but has had thousands of rounds of M-193 5.56 ammo thru it. It definitely didn't like the 855 stuff. Probably won't be shooting M-855 thru that rifle anymore. Listen to Caleb people.
I think that's what we're seeing industry wide in a lot of .223/.223W/5.56 chambers is a huge variances on tolerances. Many ammo manufacturers since 2017 have dialed pressures back 10% because of complaints of popped primers or ammo issues. This has is very apparent on M193 variants.
I think lucky gunner did a test with different barrels and some of the. 223rem showed lower pressure than the .556 barrels with the same rounds.
I want you guys to know that I have never watched one of your gun-care videos that I didn't learn something important. Thank you for doing this channel!!
You briefly mentioned "wear" on the weapons in general when using different ammunition types.
I'm a small arms repairer in the Army. We've been using the M855A1 for a while, and we (collectively, the repairers) have seen increased wear that we've contributed to the ammunition.
The army had to make a new standard for barrel erosion because of it. Not to mention damage to the feed ramps from the rounds not being presented at the normal angle of the M855 out of legacy magazines. We've also noticed that the bolt rings seem to wear faster now.
Ive been trying to see if there is noticeable wear being caused to M4s in other places because of the ammunition. I haven't noticed anything else, but M855A1 is a pretty spicy round, so i imagine its only a matter of time.
Apparently a lot of the additional barrel wear has been attributed to the primers, which have been replaced in new production.
@@jarink1 What is different about these primers, as opposed to the M855 or these "new production" ones?
Small Arms Solutions has an article on M855A1 EPR vs M855.
"Looking at chamber pressure, both cartridges were fired in a 14.5 inch M4A1, both projectiles are a 62 grain projectile. The M855 has an average chamber pressure of 51,522 psi, which is within the 52-55,000 psi range the M4 and all 5.56mm military rifles are designed. The M855A1 is increased vastly to 61,830. In fact, you see pressure levels as high as 62,900 psi. Please keep in mind that a proof cartridge is 70,000 psi. Clearly the rifle is being significantly driven past its design parameters. The increase in chamber pressure also increases the bolt velocity substantially driving the cyclic rate much faster, which increases parts wear and service life of both the bolt and barrel."
If only citizens could get their hands on that round. Fun to know the army can just use whatever they want (aside from HP) and it is banned for civilians. Fair fight.
@@Enjoyer.762Your thoughts on how about chamber throat wear? Seems with that much increased pressure it might be causing havoc on the throat then compromise accuracy!
I appreciate when an organization can update past misunderstandings. This is a learning process, and info is vital to safety and longevity, both to human life and the firearm. Handloaders have all this to overcome, apply and disseminate to make a quality product that may be passed to the next generation. Case capacity affecting pressures and velocities, chamber and brass resizing dimensions vary according to application, powder and bullet lots can be inconsistent. The more we know about the effects and outcomes of variables, the better we become.
I knew the previous video would require a follow up. Well done sir. Timely, accurate and directing people to the proper resources.
Not to correct the great Caleb, but M993 is Nammo's AP8 round chambered in 7.62NATO :D M995 (AP3) is the 5.56x45mm variant :D
Great information. Agonizing delivery.
Good information. Matching ammo to barrel rather than receiver makes sense. Thanks
Caleb is a rather good looking fella. Appreciate you, bud ;)
Good luck in the Gundie awards, Caleb! Everyone who's ever given him a hard time about his hair needs to go give him a vote for Most Dapper Influencer as an act of repentence.
I wish they had a "Best Hair" category.
I will give him a whole 15 votes tomorrow lol
Is he from Mayberry? 😆 Lol or is he the Mr. Rogers of firearms 😆 Lol
This guy has, arguably, the classiest hair online. No joke.
Most guys would kill for that hair. Haters... smh😏
I know they test pressures at different points in the chamber or cartridge between .223 and 5.56, just always wondered why no one seems to have tested either cartridge using one system on both. Ya know..for "science"
Came here to comment exactly this.
@@mattschmitt9924 me too. Exactly what I was thinking.
They have. The pressures vary depending on the chambering. (See ballistictools article on this.) The presumed reason for this is the length of the leade in the chamber specification and specification for the cartridge length (and probably specified powders). However, for the specific loading the pressure testing is part of specification. So, NATO spec has a pressure test standard and SAAMI spec has a pressure test standard.
Actually the youtube channel Bolt Action Reloading did a test including measuring pressures. His findings mirror what Caleb is saying. Ironically the opposite is true for 308 and 7.62x51.
So, apples = oranges. Got it.
Having witnessed, first hand on a range, an AR-15 blow up on a range when 5.56mm is fired through a .223 chambered AR, there is a very important difference. This occurred almost 30 years ago, in the early 90's. I quickly correct people when they say there is no difference. Luckily the friend shooting the rifle was not injured, but the rifle was destroyed.
Good job with the up-date..Much better!
Its very credible on your part to come back on this and make a deep dive, if you will, to clear up some of the misunderstandings of the previous video, kudos to you. These are tools, machines, yes they experience wear and tear, and require maintenance, just like a motor vehicle. You must “fuel” them properly, like a car, needs x-octane, or your body, or needs x protein.
I have a Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle from '99 and although their are no barrel markings for the caliber, it is marked on the receiver CAL. .223 not .223 Remington. The manual states that either .223 (5.56mm) or standard US military ammo can be used. Ruger also confirmed that all Mini14's with the exception of the Mini-14 target model, have 5.56mm chambers, so either .223 sporting ammo or 5.56 NATO ammunition can be safely fired.
That is my understanding. I have an earlier model, and confirmed with Ruger that it has a 5.56 NATO chamber.
That's correct, and only recently, have they stamped their barrels for 5.56.
I have a ruger ranch rifle, should I be fine with 5.56 ammo? My barrel says 223 on it.
@@Hidalguense Yes, it's good to go! 5.56 chambers all.
Thanks for the reply, gunsmith told me it was ok but second opinion its always better
One nuance to keep in mind is import restrictions. I've heard that Saiga rifles were imported with .223 Remington marked on the receiver while being actually chambered in 5.56x45 NATO because they would be considered a sporting guns rather than military ones. I don't believe the barrels are marked with any chambering.
Really wished you'd mentioned ".223 Wylde" chamberings. It causes even more confusion, especially for new or prospective AR owners.
That is true. Some will mention that little tidbit to not worry about it. Wylde just makes it more accurate for 5.56.
They already did:
ua-cam.com/video/Ya2JqLPyx4I/v-deo.html
@@Ratkill9000 You're close; it makes firing .223 more accurate than it would be compared to firing it out of a 5.56 barrel, while still allowing you to fire the higher pressure 5.56 without issues. Firing .223 out of a 5.56 barrel is fine, but will be less accurate than a .223 barrel. Firing 5.56 out of a .223 barrel can cause issues because of the higher pressure.
@@Ratkill9000 Is there any real proof that the Wylde is more accurate than .223 (not 5.56)? Guys at Camp Perry say there is no proof and it is just marketing. They say there is no solid research testing that proves this hearsay.
A few years ago, I visited the Hornady and Sierra closed testing ranges. They each use a benched actions for each the .223 and 5.56 testings and for accuracy monitorings. Their test match rounds all shot one hole groups. I asked about the Wylde and the testers both said the Wylde is a great marketing move. When you eliminate the human factor, environmental, and barrel variations, both the .223 and 5.56 are as accurate as can be.
Great video, excellent info!
I received some bulk reload 5.56 NATO ammo, which may have been loaded hot. I don't have chrono data, but will relate my experiences using those rounds in three firearms. (Be sure to scroll down to the Mini 14 info.)
Rock River Arms (Advanced Tactical Hunter model) 5.56 Wylde chamber purchased in 2017: Nothing unusual to report.
Colt AR-15 HBAR (round handguard, open sights), chamber marked .223, purchased from original owner in 1995: Buffer seemed to travel to max rearward position, and could hear a ringing sound (I think from buffer spring) through hearing protection after each shot. Factory .223 rounds did not do this.
Ruger Mini-14 Ranch rifle, stainless steel, purchased new in late 1980's: Significantly more perceived recoil from these rounds than factory .223 rounds. The brass was ejected even more vigorously than normal. I stepped off the distance where the brass ended up in mowed lawn and estimate 27 yards travel! The firearm did not appear to be damaged in any way, but I never shot that ammo out of that firearm again.
8:05 I've actually had that happen well shooting my 1911 . I had just bought a box of 45 acp ( not + P ) and I noticed a huge kick and fire ball . Stopped and took a look then seen a primer laying there on the next round . That's when I noticed that my hand had powder on and was a little burnt from being peppered by let gunpowder. Took that box home and found sixteen rounds out of 50 where way over charged.
Good thing you investigated.
what brand?
@@TreeCamper Winchester white box . 230 grain .
@@onpsxmember yup it could have been bad .
@@Portuguese-linguica Wouldn't have guessed Winchester. I haven't had any bad boxes. Maybe they corrected the mistake. Anything made by humans is imperfect.
Hi this is Caleb from Brownells, and here is a note from our lawyers....
Thank you for sharing your priceless knowledge sir! It’s much appreciated!
Thanks this answers why my bolt isn’t rocking Back correctly on my .556 daniels. I just recently tried .223 in the Daniels and it’s a no go even though the manufacturer said .223 is ok to use. Live and learn.
If you have any doubts go with vanilla 223 commercial ammo. I have a 5.56 chamber gauge and throat reamer. My SP-1 1974 production passed. The AR-180 had one tiny burr in the throat. Two brand new 5.56 DPMS barrels both had serious throat burrs that took a few turns of the reamer to get a go with the gauge. I have fired 5.56 in the SP-1 and it is weaker than some of my varmint loads. If you are reloading, go by the most recent published reloading date for your components. Family pay for hunting trip business was ammo reloading until the Mid 70's,
Thanks, great info. Good to see you again Caleb!
Thank you for the update.
I appreciate the knowledge your helping all of us understand.
Good stuff.
Strong video.💪👍
Great information as always. Thanks gentlemen!
Matching ammo to what’s printed on the barrel? What a brilliant idea!
Sometimes. I have a .357 Magnum-marked revolver that I fire a lot of .38 Specials in. It will also fire .38 Short Colt and .38 Long Colt ammo. Perfectly safe with all.
@@MrTruckerf sorry to hear that.
Thanks for all the information that you/brownells give us.
Thank you for the video!
Oh boy. I am new to all this and I have just bought my first AR lower. I haven't seen any talks of this or even companies giving these specifics in their products. Just as I thought I knew what to look for, I now have to start at square one.
So eloquently put. Another awesome video that I'm bookmarking to send out when I get this question.
Shoot the round your barrel is made for!👍🇺🇸
I'm glad you cleared this up. Cuz the last one didn't sit right with me.
I saw a different video discussing the differences between 5.56 and .223 and they also said the pressures of these rounds were different mainly due to the differences in the ways they measured between the NATO method and the civilian method. They did say that when they used the civilian method of pressure testing ammo on the 5.56 ammo, they got very similar pressure values. They went on to say that the pressure differences is mainly due where each method measures the pressure at with in the chamber. This is not to say that all 5.56 rounds can be fired in a .223 rifle, since some of the heavier/ longer 5.56 rounds may be too long for the .223 chamber. This later instance could cause a high pressure problem in a .223 chambered rifle.
Long story short, your video in reference stated you could shoot 5.56 in a 223 firearm. I was shocked, and shortly after it was posted, you took it down. This is now to walk back the statements from that video. Thank you.
Yup, good for Caleb and Brownells
Very valuable information for the experienced shooter and reloaders, especially a "New Shooter" or new reloaders.
Yes valuable to experienced but for a new person he was all too encompasses. Im a gunsmith and builder with 40 years of shooting and reloading behind me, I know what he was saying however the lay person would be lost....now that's my opinion
Colt introduced confusion to the topic 30 years ago. Sitting on my lap is an AR, and the lower markings state, " Colt SPORTER MATCH HBAR CAL. 223."
The barrel is marked, " C MP 5.56 NATO 1/7 HBAR.".
I like to consider this rifle as the first ever, 223 Wylde.
Got one just like it.👍Except mine has had NATO rounds get stuck in the chamber. Installed a Geissle SSA trigger and it's a pleasure to shoot.
Have a gunsmith determine the actual chamber if you don't have chamber gauges for 5.56 NATO, .223 Rem, and .223 Wyld.
That Lower is Mil Spec and your barrel has passed the Magnetic Particle Inspection Test and you can shoot NATO 5.56 too but I'd check the stamp on your barrel first just to make sure... Ha ha ha ha... Nothing I'd worry about... 🇺🇸 🌎
Yeah Ive got one of those,too lol. A good old classic from 1995. Pretty nice trigger on mine, from the factory
Well, That made it clear as mud. I have a Ruger American in .223 that has the ejector missing from a round that went crazy. This was the 30th round out of a lot of 250, it popped the mag out and seized the bolt. Upon getting the bolt open I found a case with the base opened up. The round chambered fine, it just blew the base of the case out. This was a .223 commercial round with a 62 grain slug.
Sounds like a bad reload or remanufactured round.
@@davidunderwood3605 Ammunition failures are a thing. The case failed. It happens.
And it's always a good idea to let the ammunition manufacturer know. Case manufacture isn't difficult, but a lot of bad product can slip by between sample inspections during drawing and heading. I learned the hard way to visually inspect the draw constantly. Every 10 minutes, as specified in the process standard, wasn't nearly enough. Those machines are fast.
Oohhh, I love some SmythBusters! Thanks for the extra info!
Probably one of the most interesting videos I’ve seen in a long time. Thanks Caleb!
Awesome channel guys
Thanks for the caveats. Good info is always welcome
Shoutout to the different pressure measurement methods!,!
I bought a F1 firearms king FDR. It is supposed to be 223 Wylde. But my barrel isn't stamped. I spoke to F1 firearms and they said they skipped that step in building my firearm and I'm not sure how others could be skipped also. How would I found out before I shoot other then 223 ammo? Cause I have some 556 also on hand to shoot. I'm assuming a gun smith to measure the chamber.
Thanks William
Excellent follow-up.
I have heard the same for Ruger 10/22. The chamber is not design for ammo like 22 lr stinger. Do to case length. But, I understand people still fire stinger through the rifle.
Knowledgeable, well spoken and great hair
This is one of Caleb's best videos. I always learn something from him.
...pierced primers could be out of spec firing pins or bolts, too. Lots of knobs to adjust.
Yep. First thing to check is firing pin protrusion. .036 max. If my memory serves me right. But better double check, I'm old and my memory plays games.
@@davidunderwood3605 my gauge says .028 to.036 in case anyone reads this.
Great video thank you! It answered a lot of questions I had as to why Bushmaster DCM-XR Competition Rifle sometimes blows M855 primers.
You give great presentations.
Great information! Thanks for sharing this!
CIP (the euro SAAMI) only have one entry for the 556, so 223 and 556 are tested to the same standard. as such, if you have a euro gun (or one tested by CIP), it doesnt matter, they are the same.
Mini14 is. Marked 223 but Ruger website mentions ok for 556.
Thanks for the update!!
Synopsis: Use the ammo for which your firearm is chambered.
Sounds like lawyers got a hold of this one.
They took the responsible action and corrected their first video by contacting the source. Good for Brownells..
@@hairydogstail it was a joke. No need to get defensive
@@TheScott2theextreme No one got defensive...
@@hairydogstail good 👍
@@TheScott2theextreme No problem!
Thanks Gabe
Thanks for the context on Saami! Good to know for non handloaders
Great video as always 👍👌👏
Please do a video explaing the correct conversion from military to commercial pressures
Thanks for the info!
My ARs all have 223 Wylde barrel/chambers.
The Wylde is a hybrid chamber designed to allow both ammunition types to be safely fired with good accuracy.
The key phrase may be “good accuracy.”
Ok, new here to the AR platform. So I have a a SW MP15. The barrel is stamped 5.56 NATO. The store owner and sales said I could use .223. I also bought a Sig where the barrel is stamped 5.56/.223. SO.....
On the SW MP15 stamped 5.56 NATO, can I not use ".223 rounds"?
Great stuff as usual!
Thanks again gentlemen!
I personally use .223 ammunition exclusively. I have an Anderson AM15 with 5.56/.223 stamped on the barrel. When I first purchased my weapon, I had a few boxes of 5.56 FMJ rounds and some .223 FMJBT rounds. I fired both into separate targets , to see which my weapon would perform better with. I found that the .223 held better groups with less flyers than the 5.56. I also found that the .223 performed more consistently when the barrel temperature was elevated. Now this is just my experience, and it is not a blanket statement. I would encourage everyone to shoot different loads and stick with what works best for you! I do the same with my 9MM pistols as well. I would suggest inspecting the bolt carrier group after using higher pressure ammo for any abnormal wear. Better safe than sorry.
Thanks
Great video Caleb!
That's if your in the u.s with a American made firearm because they use the sammi pressure testing system, so if your rifle is made in the u.s and stamped 223 that's only what you can shoot, if your in europe with a european made firearm they use the cpi testing system for example with the Bren 2ms CZ standardise their barrel for the higher 556 pressures therefore you can shoot either 556 or 223 even if the barrel is stamped 223.
ROCKET MAN!
Love ya Caleb :D
Just out of curiosity...is there a recorded incident anywhere in the world, in which there was a catastrophic failure of a firearm chambered in 223 Rem, while shooting a 5.56 NATO out of it?
No. No there is not. Damn good question.
could only happen in a limited part of the world, as most countrys have CIP and 5.56 NATO is within spec of .223 REM CIP
Thus, approved ammo in those countrys is generaly safe to use.
However, individual compaibility should always be checked. One of mine had issues wit 77gr SMK loads in .223 rem.
Vlk I don't think anyone said anything about a catastrophic failure but ruptured cases, blown primers, and throat erosion have for sure happened. Long term firings of 5.56 in a .223 chamber could weaken the .223 chamber over time. So the point is its not worth firing 5.56 in .223 chambers with the damage that it can do even if it doesn't result in catastrophic failure.
Basically a firearm that runs efficiently with say Tula .223 Remington and you switch up to M855 and it starts slinging brass harder and has an increase amount of "jostle" will result after multiple 100-1000's of rounds will see an increase in parts wear, such as the gas rings, gas port, and chamber throat. You will not necessarily see your buffer spring shorten as that is more related to the number of rounds fired, but extractor spring will see accelerated wear as it is having to work harder to extract the case.
@@Mr79dream Be careful on that CIP rating. Some of those countries aren't allowed to own military caliber firearms like the 5.56x45, so the manufacturers cut "223 CIP chamber" to 5.56 dimensions and call them 223. Pretty sure CZ does that. If you were to cast a CZ 223 chamber, it would measure out to 556 dimensions, not 223 remington SAAMI dimentions.
I should have mentioned in the comment below that the Mini 14 was fired from offhand (standing) position when the 5.56 brass traveled approximately 27 yards--MUCH further than factory .223 rounds!
Listening to this is like thinking about the wear and tear on my car.
What if the barrel has no markings ,but the lower says 223 ,then what ?
You Sir, are a TRUE Professional.
Very much enjoy your posts.
All the BEST in the New Year.
Years ago I mean before this video was released I wish I knew the difference between the two because I had a AR15 pistol and I shot both out of it not knowing there was a difference let’s just say I broke the bolt on it and had jams because of the ammo. So I sold that pistol. Years later I became educated and purchased a new AR15 but in 223 wylde because of the benefit it offers compared to a 556 barrel.
I'm seeing some comments being deleted. Why are they being deleted Brownells when they haven't violated any UA-cam rules?
Ok, I have a Ruger Mini-14, and it says the chambering is .223 REM. I shot some 5.56 out of it, and after a couple of rounds, the trigger guard popped open. I snapped it back in and switched to .223 and it didn't happen again. Next time I took it out, I shot a 5.56 in it, and the trigger guard popped out again. Shot .223, and it didn't happen again. Contacted Ruger, gave them the serial number, and they said it is ok for 5.56, and that I should just bend the trigger guard in toward the trigger just a bit, to make it a tighter fit. I did that, and it basically solved the problem, but I decided to reserve this particular firearm to .223
I think all the ARs in the house are "multi caliber" on the receiver
Please tell me you are aware that just means it can be used for .223, .300 AAC, .50 Beowulf, 6.5 Grendel uppers edit - and more
My AK (Russian made Saiga) has a receiver marked "223 Rem". But the owners manual says 556.
I've heard they put 223 on the rifle because it was imported as a hunting rifle. So which one is it? 😅
So with all that said I'd like to reaffirm that it's ok to shoot .223 in my factory built Ruger 556 ar15. Right? Sorry I'm kind of a newbie when it comes to the ar15 platform.
Great video very informative/educational! Thanks
Can I grease the bolt lugs? On BCG Or put oil on them
@ all or should I just leave a good thing alone?
Thank you I really like all the videos
We look @ them all the time. Thanks 🇺🇸 2A 🇺🇸
: OUTSTANDING info COMMENTARY
What if there are no markings on the barrel, but the receiver Is marked 223
Read the owner's manual
That was the most horrendous video l have ever seen. Not only did you not clear up anything, u only made everything more muddled. Thanks for that !!!
The hundreds of other comments disagree with you, maybe you missed something?
You need to run this by someone that doesn’t shoot and see if they can follow it. Because I’m barely tracking this rabble
I bought an upper labeled at 5.56 and advertised but the barrel says 223 he told me newer barrels can fire both cartridges I’m really confused I don’t mind the 223 but can I put the 5.56
I would like to see a video on wylde chamber vs 556 chamber vs 223 chamber. Does 556 shoot as good from a wylde chamber as it does from a 556 chamber as well as 223 from a wylde vs 223 from a 223.
223 Wylde has the same chamber size as the 5.56 other than the throat..223 chamber has a shorter throat and chamber than either than the 5.56 or 223 Wylde..
Great video, thank you.
On a Ruger Mini-14 stamped 5.56 NATO, how can I determine if the barrel is 5.56? Is it stamped somewhere on the barrel?
a thought on this subject, most companies are very cost focused to increase profit. in the case of colt, which was manufacturing military barrels for M16s, why would they bother to cut a slightly different barrel for .223 for commercial AR15s? since a 5.56 barrel would handle both calibers, why not use it for both? was it an attempt to distance the AR15 from a military stigma?
The LE product line has always been a 5.56 NATO chamber.
Because colt is a very anti-2a company. It's why they started putting blocks in the lower receiver, to prevent civilians from using auto-sears, lightning links, and other full auto conversions.
@@jpowens2253 OK boomer they stopped doing that since the 1990s. Have you even purchased any Colt AR produced since 2006 - through the present?
@@Enjoyer.762 Sorry, I don't buy things from anti-2a companies. The fangirls that defend colt is almost as bad as the company itself.
@@jpowens2253 You better stop buying from all of them. Because the only thing they all care about is police and military contracts over the civilian market lol.
As consumers, we need to pick a spec and stick with it, no charging handle imprint on the forehead because 65,000 psi was "too much".
GREAT VIDEO. ...
So the 223 Wylde chamber can shoot 556 & shoots 223 more accurate than a 556 chamber shoots 223 correct? If that's true why wouldn't everyone just switch to 223 Wylde chamber? I assume the 556 chamber is more reliable for a battle rifle correct? My point/question I'm getting at is which chamber is best for most robust & reliable chamber for a home defense rifle? 556, or 223wylde??
How about my old a2 colt pencil barrel it say on lower receiver 223 and my barrel says 556 it is safe to shoot 556?
So I have a Ruger 556 What ammo was the manufacture intending the riffle to shoot without premature wear??? Anyone??
Overall, good overview. Other comments from viewers also helpful.
Has anyone ever measured .223 pressure the same way the 5.56 pressure is measured?
yes.
Check out Bolt Action Reloading channel.
Theres a big difference when shooting full auto. 5.56 cycles the gun much faster than .223 . You can find videos of it