Visions is a really fun game. I’m blinded by nostalgia with legend, secret and trials though. But visions is definitely good. I think a lot of people are dropping the game before you get enough classes and the party fills out. End of chapter 3 is a massive turning point for the game.
The art direction in this game is really impressive..I know the game doesnt have a triple AAA budget but this is one of the few games where I am an awe of where I am traversing..the colors are also incredibly vibrant.
Visions of Mana has a same level of emotions as rdr2 or even HALO trilogy because if I just revisit he story especially the ending, that’l kicks me into tears 😭
It's pretty much what I expected, and I completely agree with your list! Basically : 1. If you're a total newbie on Mana, just go grab Trials of Mana (remake!) to ease you in on the series, the characters and the gameplay. 2. After a great experience in colorful 3D, go 8-bit with Secrets of Mana (the original!) 3. Now that you know you love it, go hard on old school and play the one that started it all : Final Fantasy adventure Oh! and then stick Visions of Mana anywhere because you'll definitely want to check the evolved version of the series!
It would depend of the age of the player. If they are accustomed with snes games already then I would play secret and the original trials though if you grew up with the snes it’s fairly unlikely you haven’t already played them if you’re into rpgs. These younger gamers are used to fast combat, open worlds and have short attention spans so the remakes and visions would probably tick that. Also secret of Mana is 16 bit not 8 bit. If my nes put out those graphics it would probably melt lol
Legend is one of my all-time favorite games. It absolutely does not hold your hand, and it's not going to lead you by the nose through the stories - you only actually have to finish one of the three main narratives to get to the end of the game, and if you're not seeking out story and characterization it's easy to assume it's just not there - but if you put in some effort, the reward is great. Sword is super underrated as well.
Where would you put Terranigma if it was in the same series? I feel like Terranigma trumps all the games you mentioned, but curious to hear your take assuming you played it.
Good list overall Joe, I mostly agree with it. However, I will stan the heck out of Legend of Mana and will try to do my best here. To start, it's worth noting Legend was actually my first Mana game that I played when I was still in my one or early two digit age, and I had rented it. The first couple of times I started it, I didn't quite *get it* because it was so unorthodox. However, the more I dug into it, the more I began to uncover the game's charms. There isn't really a direct story that the game follows, beyond (from reading of it) a calamity put the world into ruin and you the player are effectively repairing the world with the artifacts you find, which become areas for you to explore. As you say, the placement of these artifacts can have effects on it's neighbors and the process to try get a 'perfect map' is a bit headache inducing. But I believe the main intention there is to encourage replayability, to make you change the map different each time to see what kinds of quests or events you might unlock. The game itself isn't terribly long in the grand scheme, and the new game plus options to increase difficulty can make the seemingly easy combat into some real tight fights that reward you for exploring the game's other avenues. Speaking of, the game gives you a lot of ways to customize and build up your characters, although to it's detriment, it can be a little vague about how certain actions would affect your stats. If the game ever got a remake, I wish they would make some of this a little more clear, but that's I can also see the charm in just experimenting and seeing what comes out, tedious as that may be. There's monster raising, Golem making, weapon crafting, gardening. There's lots of little nuances that can help you out in your journeys, some more straight forward than others. The only pseudo point of contention I would say is how you get abilities and weapon arts, as it's some what dependent on what abilities you currently have equipped and also RNG? I kind of wish things like this were a bit more straightforward, and yet, I can't deny some of the excitement I would feel when I unlock some new ability I didn't think was possible and wonder what I can do from there. The last thing I'd like to talk about is while there isn't a direct story, the quest based system with the little stories they provide are kind of charming in their own right, and in a couple of cases, lead to quest lines that really moved me when I was playing through it, especially one of the 3 major arcs that lead to big confrontations with major threats, and carrying those moments are the game's wide cast of charming characters that, at first I was bummed you couldn't make a super big party with, but then realized how their temporary inclusion kind of makes their showing up more special, especially when some characters you wouldn't think would join your group do and it is, simply speaking, pretty cool and awesome. I won't say it's like the best Mana game, cause it isn't, but I think there's a lot of good charm and heart to the game that makes it at least a B tier, if not an A tier, but that's just my take on it. It's one of my favorite games, but I'll acknowledge not everyone will like it.
Great video. I really enjoyed the Trials of Mana remake, but people sounded really down on Visions of Mana. I think I'll pick up Visions of Mana based on your recommendation. By the way, I could never really get into Secret of Mana, but I loved Secret of Evermore. I know it's not part of the Mana series, but where would you rank Evermore if you had to include it?
Great video. Good review of the mana series as a whole. Visions was pretty awesome, only gripe is that all the coolest outfits are class locked vs trials remake they weren't
I did mention that the main reason I put it in A tier was that I felt the remake superceded it in many ways, but yes, perhaps I could have worded that better :)
Visions of Mana is great; and incredibly upsetting for the developers of it to have lost their studio, when they could have been the crew working on the series for the next few years!
Genuinely surprised you rate Visions so highly, at least after your initial impressions. But I am glad to hear you praise it so much, and it gives me hope for the series (assuming SQEX is smart and picks up the team since Netease closes the studio ON LAUNCH DAY) Oof. Still have to get back to Trials and finish my first run. Mana is such a magical series for me, it truly warms my heart to see it back - hell the original team (alongside monolith) is even responsible for FF11 and many of its systems which is just extra ❤❤❤ I don't see too many discussions about the music though, which surprises me. Fear of the Heavens is permanently seared into my brain and is one of the singular best title themes ever.
There was something special about learning how to do the fan translation patch to SD3 and being able to finally play it back then, that I’d argue that for those who experienced it then, it’s an S+ tier. Even now, I still prefer the pixel art to the Trials remake.
Trials of mana was exactly how i envisioned it. Based on my knowledge from Seiken densetsu 3 I knew where to go cause they designed the map adaptively well along with the old SNES. Visions of Mana should have been made together along with the same team as Trails of Mana. It's a shame these teams just keep getting split up.
I feel like Secret of Mana is great for its initial impression, maybe S rank for that. Repeat play through though, I feel the weapon and spell leveling system really detract from it, where 70% of my game play is just leveling up. I think for me, it's worn down to B for the long haul. Contrasted with Trails of Mana remake, I've recently gone back to finish the post game, done a NG+, and now doing a fresh Hard mode run for the last boss. Gameplay wise, I feel it's amazing. Story though, well the first time through, I just found it to be a complete mess with 3 enemy factions all doing the same thing, with no deciding factor as to which comes out on top over the other aside from being "selected main protagonist nemesis." I feel like it lost a lot of its soul, with it being possible to select and upgrades characters into completely boring builds with very little spell variety to use. Started B tier that took way too long to properly appreciate as A tier with good class choices. I gave up on Visions half way through. Mostly I just didn't want to do anything but see the main story, and given it still had so far to go, and various side quest switch NPCs to talk to for flavor text, and the text boxes had next to no effective background, I just lost interest. The various bugs and boring combat really go to me as well. Enemies didn't matter unless they had a purple health bar, were scattered very few and far between, and reacted so sluggishly to you entering the combat area that it felt like engaging you was part of some disgruntled employee being told to do it or else get fired. And Luna's vessel abilities along with an AI using Undine's vessel, and enemies just evaporated. I can't say much about any others than I want to give Legend more of a chance, because I realized my time on the PS1 version miserably failed to realize how I need to play that game.
Coming from someone who played Legend of Mana back in the day, it has awesome music and art direction, but the combat is... not good. It gives an illusion of variety with weapon types, but normal slashes with the 2-handed sword are literally one of the most efficient ways to kill most enemies, including bosses. Spellcasting is very slow by comparison to weapons, you have to craft to get better spells, and the payoff often isn't worth it. Pets are fun but require a lot of investment. Finally, the open-ended story direction was an interesting concept, but it doesn't change the outcome at all. So, based on Secret of Mana settling into B tier for you, I couldn't see you grading Legend of Mana anywhere above C tier. And I do agree based on watching a Twitch playthrough that Visions is VERY long and it becomes a slog if you don't resonate with the gameplay. The time attack battles emphasize going with certain builds and so others are inferior. Certain teams just being much better than others was also true in Trials, but this got turned on its head in the highest difficulty- previously weak builds suddenly became viable, while builds that blew through the game on lower difficulties took a big hit in effectiveness. In Visions, you're instead able to mostly ignore a character or two and get by just fine, and there's no incentive to stray outside the meta with the relative lack of replayability.
I really like legend of mana but I strongly believe that the artifact mechanic was nothing but confusing and limiting. I wouldn't mind it if it didn't lock me out of side quests and as for the forge...It would have been much better to have a beter UI for it, for us to know what the hell are we doing. That could have been one of the high points of the game
Generally, I agree with this list. For me, Visions is actually the best Mana game. It doesn’t have the nostalgic draw of older titles I played as a kid, and is tragically single player. But I was so happy with the title and had so much fun playing it, I have to give credit where credit is due. I’d also put Legend of Mana dead last on the list, that game is unforgivably bad and I think it’s the only game released here that I couldn’t bring myself to finish lol
It isn't for me Visions IMHO is BORING as hell the treasure chest items are nearly worthless you don't get SP per lv up so even BY lv 99 you won't have all 8 jobs mastered on all 6 party members and the field/dungeon maps BARELY have any NORMAL encounters so don't be surprised if the LV 50 enemies via the first Ruins area you still can't beat UNTIL AFTER the final boss shows up. That and the PS4/PS5/PC Visions of Mana is prone to Hardlocking simliar to the Secret of Mana PS4 version where when THAT remaster first got released it crashed way too many times kicking you OUT of the game with Constant Error Messages. But other then Visions of Mana crashing constantly its just too BORING.
@@veghesther3204 ok to each his own. I’ve spent about 20-25 hours in it so far and I’ve enjoyed every minute of it but I understand it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. I’ve also not encountered any hard locking or crashes thus far on my XSX but I’m only 20-25ish hours in.
I spend around 11 hours and around hour 10 to 11 I had the PSN version Crash at least twice but even before that happens its IMHO too boring theirs barely any normal battles and unlike Trials of Mana you don't even GET EP for job lvs PER LV so at lv 99 you probably won't even have half of the jobs mastered on all 6 party members while possibly barely being at LV 45 against LV 60 required bosses.
legend had so many many systems so far ahead of its time for a ps1 game it had tons of replayability tons of stuff to unlock and learn and make it was incredible its insanely good
I love Legend! Definitely a departure from the norm but charming. The art, music, skills, and craft system saw me through many a play through. I agree that the artifact placement is jarring until you realize there’s new game plus and mana levels affect the type of fruits grown and accessing certain quests. The npcs are among my favorite part of the game with the unique personalities and sheer goofiness. A great game to play with young family members.
Legend of mana is underrated. Its possible my second favorite one just under secret of mana. I love the customizable to it and how there's different story psths that sll lead to the same final boss but the path to it is different. As gor trails of mana i really haven't played it much to have an opinion on it.
Had children of mana on DS and i loved it. It was the first RPG i took seriously and after that RPG became my favorite genre of games. Currently playing trials for the first time as i haven’t had a Nintendo system since the DS until i saw this game a few others And decided it was worth it 🤣
Great analysis! I've only played a few of them so this is helpful. Going to check out some of these based on your recommendation. Only a few hours into Visions but I am already impressed. 5/5 easy.
Adventures of Mana is very good as a normal phone game back then. Basically a secret of mana remake graphic and design game(good and bad) of FF Adventure
I think Seiken Desnsetsu 3 is on par with Secret of Mana. Though the rythm was a bit awkward at first, in comparison, the stories were incredible, you can replay it, it was REALLY beautiful and so on.
The only mana games i played were secret and trials of mana (both on snes). Visions of mana is honestly pretty damn good in my opinion. Didnt disppoint me much if at all. Its well deserving of a S tier
Legend of Mana was the one and only game I was ever allowed to import and was totally not what I was expecting. But it won me over somehow and have a lot of happy memories of it so my bias would push it into B if not A. Original Seiken 3 would be in S having discovered it actually existed and playing it through via emulation.
What a weird choice putting the original trials in A. It’s a tier list not a how long until I could play it officially list. You say you liked it more that secret yet put it below it, that just didn’t make any sense. Both trails can be in S otherwise cool video. Love more people having more exposure to the series with secret of mana being my favourite game and currently playing through visions
People always miss the second Remake of the first Seiken Densetsu from japanese mobile phones in 2007. I still have a phone and the game and it’s superior to the 3rd remake, Adventures of Mana. That being said Sword of Mana is the best version. However if you want the classic Final Fantasy Adventure but want more than the original gb version, the japanese phone version is the one to go. I’m hoping that the game will eventually added to the G-Mode games library on Switch.
I played 3 times through Trials of Mana Remake (and original) and got Platinum trophy. For me, Trials of Mana is (except the Graphics) the better Game than Visions of mana (32hours into it). The most annoying thing is, that the ultimate attack meter is shared between the characters... so disappointing.
I mostly agree trials is the better game in terms of gameplay and pacing-wise but the class customization is peak in visions. You should def put in another 20ish hours cuz the late game builds are so worth it
Legend is a masterpiece, and im like the ONLY person in the world that does not like Secret😅 My Tier list is: **S-Tier** 1: Visions of Mana (PS5) 2: Legend of Mana (PS1) **A-Tier** 3: Trials of Mana [Remake] (PS4) 4: Sword of Mana (GBA) **B-Tier** 5: Children of Mana (NDS) 6: Trials of Mana (SF) **C-Tier** 7: Dawn of Mana (PS2) 8: Final Fantasy Adventure (GB) **D-Tier** 9: Secret of Mana (SNES) **F-Tier** 10: Secret of Mana [Remake] (PS4) 11: Heroes of Mana (NDS)
I agree on not being a fan of Legend as I just didn't like the whole putting pieces in place to create the levels though can understand why some enjoy it & still own the original version as part of my collection. Also a fan of Children that seems to not be talked about as much, maybe just came out at the right time for me! I'm enjoying visions so far i'm only on chapter 2, but it's a good addition to the series.
Heroes of Mana is very underrated and deserves more love, story-wise it's probably the best of the serie and the only episode that's connected to another one (Trials of Mana). I remain cautious, however, with SoM remake, ToM remake and VoM, graphically it's... ugly, the 2D style was insanely best and prettier for the Snes episodes. And btw, SD3 is far better than SD2 (especially in terms of story and game mechanics, boss fights of Secret of Mana are very boring, easy and repetitive)
The OG trials is the best for me (better than visions considering the time). I also played it when it first came out in 1995 and it was at the level of chrono trigger and ff6, both in game play and soundtrack.
Good list, however I do think your reasoning for not putting Seiken Densetsu 3 in S-tier is kinda BS, because the game not getting released in the west until much later(unless you got it on an emulator) is not the fault of the game but of publishing and you should not hold that against the game itself. Now I wish for the next Mana game to go back to the style of Trials of Mana, with the player getting to choose the protagonist and the 2 companions out of 6 or more characters.
My favorite game and game in the series remains the original Trials of Mana followed closely by its remake. If its remake did a better job on the cutscenes and execution of some key moments it could have toppled the original for me. But right after that remake comes Visions of Mana for me. I disagree about the Class system being superior in VoM because you are restricted until you finally unlock worthwhile abilities (whether from the elemental plot or from equipping them) IMO far too late in the game. So many classes to me felt useless to mess with when I didn’t care for the currently available abilities for them. And like you said there is almost no point in putting Morley in anything other than Nightblade with the Luna elemental vessel. While the other characters weren’t in the same boat exactly, some classes felt straight useless for their abilities at the same time when compared to others. ToM felt better in that regard. Every class had viability. And thus I don’t see myself needing to try other classes in a NG+ run as much or new fresh run as I was able to explore it in 1 run and it wasn’t fulfilling enough to try something so drastic for a next time. Lastly, while characters are great here and the story and world felt really good it also just felt like they didn’t do more with certain moments. Like, holy shit for once parents in a jRPG exist, have dialogue, and even shared a moment with Val in the end. But those talks felt like they could’ve been written a bit better. Like they set up awesome moments and got on base instead of doing a home run in those moments. Several times the plot took a surprising direction but never went fully there like with the key villain. Love the idea and story behind him, but they could’ve fleshed out what set him off better whereas some of it came across as too much “tell instead of show” despite being shown stuff.
For me personally I would say secret of mana, both the trails games original and remake, legend of mana and visions of mana are the must plays of the series. Final fantasy adventure, sword of mana and adventures of mana are all good but not must plays, they are all ironically different versions of the same game. The rest you are fine skipping
I understand it's your list and that it's your choice where things go and that maybe not everything is objective, I get that, but isn't placing SNES Trials of Mana in A seem a little unfair to it? You mentioned that it's because it wasn't available in the west for a time, and that the remake is better. For 1, it's available officially now, and has been for a while on account of fan translations. For 2, should a really good game be knocked just because its remake is better? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn you said that you prefer SNES Trials over SNES Secret when actually playing them, so why stick Secret in S but then proceed to put Trials below rhat jist because their remakes were bad and good respectively? That could just be my opinion, but it still boggles me a little.
SPOILER COMMENT please dont read if you havent finished Man, I love visions but i have a complaint!! I came for a happy go lucky game and left with my heart in pieces😢 I really wanted a happy wnding for Val and Hinna. The ending was bittersweet.
It's so rare to see a new entry in a longtime series that is so definitively good and arguably the best in its series, and I couldn't be happier!
It’s arguable.. I personally think visions is a load of crap.
@luism8130 most people disagree
@@luism8130 Interesting. What kinds of problems did you have with the game?
Visions is a really fun game. I’m blinded by nostalgia with legend, secret and trials though.
But visions is definitely good.
I think a lot of people are dropping the game before you get enough classes and the party fills out. End of chapter 3 is a massive turning point for the game.
@@luism8130it’s a slow burn until you unlock some more class options my man
Depends on how much time you gave it
I played Secret of Mana when it came out and still got my original copy today, I feel special. 🥰
The art direction in this game is really impressive..I know the game doesnt have a triple AAA budget but this is one of the few games where I am an awe of where I am traversing..the colors are also incredibly vibrant.
Good video. You covered all the games nicely. Very well laid out.
Sword of Mana was my first Mana game and I adored it as a kid. Made me a fan for life
RIP Ouka Studios
Visions of Mana has a same level of emotions as rdr2 or even HALO trilogy because if I just revisit he story especially the ending, that’l kicks me into tears 😭
glad to see you are making videos keep it up mate
It's pretty much what I expected, and I completely agree with your list!
Basically :
1. If you're a total newbie on Mana, just go grab Trials of Mana (remake!) to ease you in on the series, the characters and the gameplay.
2. After a great experience in colorful 3D, go 8-bit with Secrets of Mana (the original!)
3. Now that you know you love it, go hard on old school and play the one that started it all : Final Fantasy adventure
Oh! and then stick Visions of Mana anywhere because you'll definitely want to check the evolved version of the series!
It would depend of the age of the player. If they are accustomed with snes games already then I would play secret and the original trials though if you grew up with the snes it’s fairly unlikely you haven’t already played them if you’re into rpgs. These younger gamers are used to fast combat, open worlds and have short attention spans so the remakes and visions would probably tick that. Also secret of Mana is 16 bit not 8 bit. If my nes put out those graphics it would probably melt lol
@kaynewoolley9104 16 bit indeed!! My (unforgivable!!) mistake 😅
I enjoyed this tier list. Thank you, I subscribed ❤
totally agree-had doubts after the (bad pacing) demo - and now im smitten. its reminding me of all the feels i had with trials remake. its incredible
Legend is one of my all-time favorite games. It absolutely does not hold your hand, and it's not going to lead you by the nose through the stories - you only actually have to finish one of the three main narratives to get to the end of the game, and if you're not seeking out story and characterization it's easy to assume it's just not there - but if you put in some effort, the reward is great.
Sword is super underrated as well.
Where would you put Terranigma if it was in the same series? I feel like Terranigma trumps all the games you mentioned, but curious to hear your take assuming you played it.
I loved Legend of Mana on PS1. And you have to unlock skills per weapon and its really fun
Aagree with you, I can play long hours, because I am search Strong Pet. I Hope Pet, Golem, Blacksmith, ext. comeback with new Mana Series again
It's the best Mana game ever to me. I do love it!
Good list overall Joe, I mostly agree with it. However, I will stan the heck out of Legend of Mana and will try to do my best here.
To start, it's worth noting Legend was actually my first Mana game that I played when I was still in my one or early two digit age, and I had rented it. The first couple of times I started it, I didn't quite *get it* because it was so unorthodox. However, the more I dug into it, the more I began to uncover the game's charms.
There isn't really a direct story that the game follows, beyond (from reading of it) a calamity put the world into ruin and you the player are effectively repairing the world with the artifacts you find, which become areas for you to explore. As you say, the placement of these artifacts can have effects on it's neighbors and the process to try get a 'perfect map' is a bit headache inducing. But I believe the main intention there is to encourage replayability, to make you change the map different each time to see what kinds of quests or events you might unlock. The game itself isn't terribly long in the grand scheme, and the new game plus options to increase difficulty can make the seemingly easy combat into some real tight fights that reward you for exploring the game's other avenues.
Speaking of, the game gives you a lot of ways to customize and build up your characters, although to it's detriment, it can be a little vague about how certain actions would affect your stats. If the game ever got a remake, I wish they would make some of this a little more clear, but that's I can also see the charm in just experimenting and seeing what comes out, tedious as that may be. There's monster raising, Golem making, weapon crafting, gardening. There's lots of little nuances that can help you out in your journeys, some more straight forward than others. The only pseudo point of contention I would say is how you get abilities and weapon arts, as it's some what dependent on what abilities you currently have equipped and also RNG? I kind of wish things like this were a bit more straightforward, and yet, I can't deny some of the excitement I would feel when I unlock some new ability I didn't think was possible and wonder what I can do from there.
The last thing I'd like to talk about is while there isn't a direct story, the quest based system with the little stories they provide are kind of charming in their own right, and in a couple of cases, lead to quest lines that really moved me when I was playing through it, especially one of the 3 major arcs that lead to big confrontations with major threats, and carrying those moments are the game's wide cast of charming characters that, at first I was bummed you couldn't make a super big party with, but then realized how their temporary inclusion kind of makes their showing up more special, especially when some characters you wouldn't think would join your group do and it is, simply speaking, pretty cool and awesome.
I won't say it's like the best Mana game, cause it isn't, but I think there's a lot of good charm and heart to the game that makes it at least a B tier, if not an A tier, but that's just my take on it. It's one of my favorite games, but I'll acknowledge not everyone will like it.
I was too dumb for Legends of Mana
Great video. I really enjoyed the Trials of Mana remake, but people sounded really down on Visions of Mana. I think I'll pick up Visions of Mana based on your recommendation.
By the way, I could never really get into Secret of Mana, but I loved Secret of Evermore. I know it's not part of the Mana series, but where would you rank Evermore if you had to include it?
Great video. Good review of the mana series as a whole. Visions was pretty awesome, only gripe is that all the coolest outfits are class locked vs trials remake they weren't
Thank you. I liked the video.
This vid has been really helpful for me, so thanks :).
I can't get into another RPG series yet but one day lol.
Putting Trials of Mana in A tier because it wasn't avaliable in the west when it came out? You not grading the game base on it own merits anymore.
I did mention that the main reason I put it in A tier was that I felt the remake superceded it in many ways, but yes, perhaps I could have worded that better :)
Visions of Mana is great; and incredibly upsetting for the developers of it to have lost their studio, when they could have been the crew working on the series for the next few years!
Genuinely surprised you rate Visions so highly, at least after your initial impressions.
But I am glad to hear you praise it so much, and it gives me hope for the series (assuming SQEX is smart and picks up the team since Netease closes the studio ON LAUNCH DAY)
Oof. Still have to get back to Trials and finish my first run. Mana is such a magical series for me, it truly warms my heart to see it back - hell the original team (alongside monolith) is even responsible for FF11 and many of its systems which is just extra ❤❤❤
I don't see too many discussions about the music though, which surprises me. Fear of the Heavens is permanently seared into my brain and is one of the singular best title themes ever.
There was something special about learning how to do the fan translation patch to SD3 and being able to finally play it back then, that I’d argue that for those who experienced it then, it’s an S+ tier. Even now, I still prefer the pixel art to the Trials remake.
So fun to see im about 8hrs into Visions and its my first Mana game and im having a blast! I adore how beautiful it is.
Trials of mana was exactly how i envisioned it. Based on my knowledge from Seiken densetsu 3 I knew where to go cause they designed the map adaptively well along with the old SNES. Visions of Mana should have been made together along with the same team as Trails of Mana. It's a shame these teams just keep getting split up.
I feel like Secret of Mana is great for its initial impression, maybe S rank for that. Repeat play through though, I feel the weapon and spell leveling system really detract from it, where 70% of my game play is just leveling up. I think for me, it's worn down to B for the long haul.
Contrasted with Trails of Mana remake, I've recently gone back to finish the post game, done a NG+, and now doing a fresh Hard mode run for the last boss. Gameplay wise, I feel it's amazing. Story though, well the first time through, I just found it to be a complete mess with 3 enemy factions all doing the same thing, with no deciding factor as to which comes out on top over the other aside from being "selected main protagonist nemesis." I feel like it lost a lot of its soul, with it being possible to select and upgrades characters into completely boring builds with very little spell variety to use. Started B tier that took way too long to properly appreciate as A tier with good class choices.
I gave up on Visions half way through. Mostly I just didn't want to do anything but see the main story, and given it still had so far to go, and various side quest switch NPCs to talk to for flavor text, and the text boxes had next to no effective background, I just lost interest. The various bugs and boring combat really go to me as well. Enemies didn't matter unless they had a purple health bar, were scattered very few and far between, and reacted so sluggishly to you entering the combat area that it felt like engaging you was part of some disgruntled employee being told to do it or else get fired. And Luna's vessel abilities along with an AI using Undine's vessel, and enemies just evaporated.
I can't say much about any others than I want to give Legend more of a chance, because I realized my time on the PS1 version miserably failed to realize how I need to play that game.
Coming from someone who played Legend of Mana back in the day, it has awesome music and art direction, but the combat is... not good. It gives an illusion of variety with weapon types, but normal slashes with the 2-handed sword are literally one of the most efficient ways to kill most enemies, including bosses. Spellcasting is very slow by comparison to weapons, you have to craft to get better spells, and the payoff often isn't worth it. Pets are fun but require a lot of investment. Finally, the open-ended story direction was an interesting concept, but it doesn't change the outcome at all. So, based on Secret of Mana settling into B tier for you, I couldn't see you grading Legend of Mana anywhere above C tier.
And I do agree based on watching a Twitch playthrough that Visions is VERY long and it becomes a slog if you don't resonate with the gameplay. The time attack battles emphasize going with certain builds and so others are inferior. Certain teams just being much better than others was also true in Trials, but this got turned on its head in the highest difficulty- previously weak builds suddenly became viable, while builds that blew through the game on lower difficulties took a big hit in effectiveness. In Visions, you're instead able to mostly ignore a character or two and get by just fine, and there's no incentive to stray outside the meta with the relative lack of replayability.
I really like legend of mana but I strongly believe that the artifact mechanic was nothing but confusing and limiting.
I wouldn't mind it if it didn't lock me out of side quests and as for the forge...It would have been much better to have a beter UI for it, for us to know what the hell are we doing.
That could have been one of the high points of the game
Secret of Mana S Legend of Mana S Trails of Mana A. And 1 game does not really belong in the list of mana games is Secret of Evermore S
Generally, I agree with this list. For me, Visions is actually the best Mana game. It doesn’t have the nostalgic draw of older titles I played as a kid, and is tragically single player. But I was so happy with the title and had so much fun playing it, I have to give credit where credit is due. I’d also put Legend of Mana dead last on the list, that game is unforgivably bad and I think it’s the only game released here that I couldn’t bring myself to finish lol
I find it really weird that you basically said all the games that are C or below are "play if you want" there's like...a lot of game in those tiers
Visions of Mana is definitely S tier for me
It isn't for me Visions IMHO is BORING as hell the treasure chest items are nearly worthless you don't get SP per lv up so even BY lv 99 you won't have all 8 jobs mastered on all 6 party members and the field/dungeon maps BARELY have any NORMAL encounters so don't be surprised if the LV 50 enemies via the first Ruins area you still can't beat UNTIL AFTER the final boss shows up.
That and the PS4/PS5/PC Visions of Mana is prone to Hardlocking simliar to the Secret of Mana PS4 version where when THAT remaster first got released it crashed way too many times kicking you OUT of the game with Constant Error Messages.
But other then Visions of Mana crashing constantly its just too BORING.
@@veghesther3204 ok to each his own. I’ve spent about 20-25 hours in it so far and I’ve enjoyed every minute of it but I understand it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. I’ve also not encountered any hard locking or crashes thus far on my XSX but I’m only 20-25ish hours in.
I spend around 11 hours and around hour 10 to 11 I had the PSN version Crash at least twice but even before that happens its IMHO too boring theirs barely any normal battles and unlike Trials of Mana you don't even GET EP for job lvs PER LV so at lv 99 you probably won't even have half of the jobs mastered on all 6 party members while possibly barely being at LV 45 against LV 60 required bosses.
this is so heartening to hear! I'm about to buy it today!
@@veghesther3204you know this games got a new game plus, yeah?
legend had so many many systems so far ahead of its time for a ps1 game
it had tons of replayability
tons of stuff to unlock and learn and make it was incredible its insanely good
I love Legend! Definitely a departure from the norm but charming. The art, music, skills, and craft system saw me through many a play through. I agree that the artifact placement is jarring until you realize there’s new game plus and mana levels affect the type of fruits grown and accessing certain quests. The npcs are among my favorite part of the game with the unique personalities and sheer goofiness. A great game to play with young family members.
Legend of mana is underrated. Its possible my second favorite one just under secret of mana. I love the customizable to it and how there's different story psths that sll lead to the same final boss but the path to it is different. As gor trails of mana i really haven't played it much to have an opinion on it.
It's got the best story but there are aspects of its gameplay that have aged rather poorly like its quest design and battle gameplay
Had children of mana on DS and i loved it. It was the first RPG i took seriously and after that RPG became my favorite genre of games. Currently playing trials for the first time as i haven’t had a Nintendo system since the DS until i saw this game a few others And decided it was worth it 🤣
Great analysis! I've only played a few of them so this is helpful. Going to check out some of these based on your recommendation. Only a few hours into Visions but I am already impressed. 5/5 easy.
I like your list. The remakes dampen the challenge in the OGs. However, the OG Seiken Densetsu 3 - my all time favourite.
Adventures of Mana is very good as a normal phone game back then. Basically a secret of mana remake graphic and design game(good and bad) of FF Adventure
I think Seiken Desnsetsu 3 is on par with Secret of Mana. Though the rythm was a bit awkward at first, in comparison, the stories were incredible, you can replay it, it was REALLY beautiful and so on.
I don't know if I'd consider Visions of Mana one of the best Mana games, but it's definitively on top.
The only mana games i played were secret and trials of mana (both on snes). Visions of mana is honestly pretty damn good in my opinion. Didnt disppoint me much if at all. Its well deserving of a S tier
Children of mana was my first mana game. It’s holds a special place in my heart.
Legend of Mana was the one and only game I was ever allowed to import and was totally not what I was expecting. But it won me over somehow and have a lot of happy memories of it so my bias would push it into B if not A. Original Seiken 3 would be in S having discovered it actually existed and playing it through via emulation.
Trials of mana was my favorite secret of mana been for have played never finished
What a weird choice putting the original trials in A. It’s a tier list not a how long until I could play it officially list. You say you liked it more that secret yet put it below it, that just didn’t make any sense. Both trails can be in S otherwise cool video. Love more people having more exposure to the series with secret of mana being my favourite game and currently playing through visions
Just wanted to say, Echoes of Mana was actually pretty neat. I had a blast, I'm hoping they make the story from Echoes into a real Mana game one day.
But looking forward to the new one see how you rank it
People always miss the second Remake of the first Seiken Densetsu from japanese mobile phones in 2007.
I still have a phone and the game and it’s superior to the 3rd remake, Adventures of Mana. That being said Sword of Mana is the best version. However if you want the classic Final Fantasy Adventure but want more than the original gb version, the japanese phone version is the one to go. I’m hoping that the game will eventually added to the G-Mode games library on Switch.
I played 3 times through Trials of Mana Remake (and original) and got Platinum trophy. For me, Trials of Mana is (except the Graphics) the better Game than Visions of mana (32hours into it).
The most annoying thing is, that the ultimate attack meter is shared between the characters... so disappointing.
I mostly agree trials is the better game in terms of gameplay and pacing-wise but the class customization is peak in visions. You should def put in another 20ish hours cuz the late game builds are so worth it
Legend is a masterpiece, and im like the ONLY person in the world that does not like Secret😅
My Tier list is:
**S-Tier**
1: Visions of Mana (PS5)
2: Legend of Mana (PS1)
**A-Tier**
3: Trials of Mana [Remake] (PS4)
4: Sword of Mana (GBA)
**B-Tier**
5: Children of Mana (NDS)
6: Trials of Mana (SF)
**C-Tier**
7: Dawn of Mana (PS2)
8: Final Fantasy Adventure (GB)
**D-Tier**
9: Secret of Mana (SNES)
**F-Tier**
10: Secret of Mana [Remake] (PS4)
11: Heroes of Mana (NDS)
Final Fantasy Adventure/Sword of Mana has the greatest soundtrack of all time ever and is the second best handheld game only behind Link’s Awakening.
I agree on not being a fan of Legend as I just didn't like the whole putting pieces in place to create the levels though can understand why some enjoy it & still own the original version as part of my collection. Also a fan of Children that seems to not be talked about as much, maybe just came out at the right time for me! I'm enjoying visions so far i'm only on chapter 2, but it's a good addition to the series.
I think Legend of Mana might have been my first Mana game. I do remember the mechanics being a little odd. Not sure I liked it as a kid.
Heroes of Mana is very underrated and deserves more love, story-wise it's probably the best of the serie and the only episode that's connected to another one (Trials of Mana).
I remain cautious, however, with SoM remake, ToM remake and VoM, graphically it's... ugly, the 2D style was insanely best and prettier for the Snes episodes. And btw, SD3 is far better than SD2 (especially in terms of story and game mechanics, boss fights of Secret of Mana are very boring, easy and repetitive)
The OG trials is the best for me (better than visions considering the time). I also played it when it first came out in 1995 and it was at the level of chrono trigger and ff6, both in game play and soundtrack.
Good list, however I do think your reasoning for not putting Seiken Densetsu 3 in S-tier is kinda BS, because the game not getting released in the west until much later(unless you got it on an emulator) is not the fault of the game but of publishing and you should not hold that against the game itself.
Now I wish for the next Mana game to go back to the style of Trials of Mana, with the player getting to choose the protagonist and the 2 companions out of 6 or more characters.
Trials of Mana remake and Visions need a SSS Tier :)
My favorite game and game in the series remains the original Trials of Mana followed closely by its remake. If its remake did a better job on the cutscenes and execution of some key moments it could have toppled the original for me.
But right after that remake comes Visions of Mana for me. I disagree about the Class system being superior in VoM because you are restricted until you finally unlock worthwhile abilities (whether from the elemental plot or from equipping them) IMO far too late in the game. So many classes to me felt useless to mess with when I didn’t care for the currently available abilities for them. And like you said there is almost no point in putting Morley in anything other than Nightblade with the Luna elemental vessel. While the other characters weren’t in the same boat exactly, some classes felt straight useless for their abilities at the same time when compared to others. ToM felt better in that regard. Every class had viability. And thus I don’t see myself needing to try other classes in a NG+ run as much or new fresh run as I was able to explore it in 1 run and it wasn’t fulfilling enough to try something so drastic for a next time.
Lastly, while characters are great here and the story and world felt really good it also just felt like they didn’t do more with certain moments. Like, holy shit for once parents in a jRPG exist, have dialogue, and even shared a moment with Val in the end. But those talks felt like they could’ve been written a bit better. Like they set up awesome moments and got on base instead of doing a home run in those moments. Several times the plot took a surprising direction but never went fully there like with the key villain. Love the idea and story behind him, but they could’ve fleshed out what set him off better whereas some of it came across as too much “tell instead of show” despite being shown stuff.
For me personally I would say secret of mana, both the trails games original and remake, legend of mana and visions of mana are the must plays of the series. Final fantasy adventure, sword of mana and adventures of mana are all good but not must plays, they are all ironically different versions of the same game. The rest you are fine skipping
Legend of Mana is S tier, sorry mate, for that one, youre wrong
Why does Kaol, Randy, and Val all look alike? I mean Val and Kaol are explained in game but their resemblance to Randy doesn't make sense to me lol.
I understand it's your list and that it's your choice where things go and that maybe not everything is objective, I get that, but isn't placing SNES Trials of Mana in A seem a little unfair to it? You mentioned that it's because it wasn't available in the west for a time, and that the remake is better. For 1, it's available officially now, and has been for a while on account of fan translations. For 2, should a really good game be knocked just because its remake is better? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn you said that you prefer SNES Trials over SNES Secret when actually playing them, so why stick Secret in S but then proceed to put Trials below rhat jist because their remakes were bad and good respectively? That could just be my opinion, but it still boggles me a little.
SPOILER COMMENT please dont read if you havent finished
Man, I love visions but i have a complaint!! I came for a happy go lucky game and left with my heart in pieces😢
I really wanted a happy wnding for Val and Hinna. The ending was bittersweet.
dude, you're missing out so much on Legend, you have no idea
I've honestly tried with Legend multiple times, I wish I saw what you see! x
ALGORITHM!!!!
Algorithm
One of the only ones he hasn't played. smh. Worthless vid.
Legend of Mana is very boring. Secret of Mana and Trials of Mana the best.
Disagree on the former, agree with the latter
Dawn sucked!