🍄 It’s so frustrating to watch Bethany go through her “sexual awakening” and still not realize that her past content/teachings contributed to her misunderstanding of sex smh She’s so close yet so far away
As I read your comment while the video was still playing, the NXIUM lady was talking about cognitive dissonance and said “you’re afraid to turn and face the bad thing, because you’re afraid it will negate the good thing.” Which is Bethany to a T. She is either incapable of, or scared to, reconcile with the damaging parts of her upbringing and how she had to do some work to deconstruct it. Hell she won’t even call it “deconstruction” because that’s such a dirty word to them.
@@trevordonaldson7634 to give this person the benefit of the doubt English is most likely their second language so there's a good chance it's just a funky translation.
@@trevordonaldson7634 Can I ask why ‘act better’ is inappropriate in this situation? English is my second language and it doesn’t feel wrong to me but I’m ignorant of any relevant history of the phrase. Thanks
Nazi arc is absolutely crazy and I can see how obsession to keep bloodlines clean or being proud of being tall, blonde and white all makes sense now ❤ This video is a great work!
the fact that they are so proud and public about being Descendants of a nazi MAYOR is mind blowing to me. it’s no wonder why they love criticizing people that are not hardcore christian’s while scamming people, it’s in their blood!
I would say high-control group is a great sterile term for research paper. For communication with other people cult will make them understand you mean group that is harmful and ruin members' lives. The emotions words carry can be very useful for true understanding.
It's a lot more inclusive mentally. There's a high bar in people's minds to meet the definition of a cult... but a high control group doesn't have the stigma and stereotyping attached to it. It's easier to convince someone to accept that they're in a high control group than a cult... my opinion, I could be wrong
I believe that was a common sentiment for a while. 🥹 This is why I have such respect for Liz Taylor. At a time when no one wanted to be associated with HIV/AIDS, she was the face of one of their biggest charities. She lost a best friend to AIDS, and never let that shame-based, hateful, and ignorant comments get to her. 💜💜
I wonder what he would say if I told him about my friends mom, who died from AIDS in the early aughts. She had no idea her husband was cheating on her. Why was she for her husband’s infidelity and his not using protection?
As an exmormon who was banned from the mandatory sex ed health class in high school, I was a gift wrapped victim for my abuser. I had zero idea how to say no, what was okay and wasn't okay. He escalated to grape and I stayed with him because he had trained me to gaslight myself about my own feelings. I had no one to ask about these things. I couldn't cry out when it happened because then I would have gotten in trouble even though I had said no to it. Even in my next relationship, I still didn't understand consent and often allowed things that I wasn't really wanting but again did not feel like I was even allowed to say no. Thank God for my husband who has basically guilt tripped me into listening to my own feelings. He softly scolded me when he noticed that I had gone with things even though I wasn't actually in the mood. He told me straight up that unless I really want stuff then he doesn't want anything. He never makes me feel guilty for needing some space, and times that I can't even be touched at all due to CPTSD. He has worked to understand my boundaries and practically demands that I also don't cross them (as I have a bad habit of just dismissing my own feelings and boundaries). He is amazing and I deeply wish that his mentality was the norm. He should set up a course to compete with Bethany 😂 it at least would do some good! Purity culture is so damaging and dangerous and I hope that we can leave it in the garbage where it belongs.
Your husband seems great. I hope you can grow beside him. Into your own person with a very awesome and strong partner in your side, of you didn't already. Much love to you, you're already wholesomely awesome
I'm so sorry you went through something so terrible. I'm glad you found such a great husband. I did also and he really helps me cope. Sending you hugs 💜
It's a tad bit ironic I'm seeing post tonight. I was just having an argument about parents being too overprotective when it comes to sexual education. You can't recognize something is abusive until you know what to look for. One of the reasons my abuser got away with it for as long as he did was because I had no frame of reference for it. I was also told to stop lying by his mother, who was my father's girlfriend at the time. I got so used to avoiding any mention or thought of it that I didn't divulge it until my 3rd round of inpatient chem dep treatment. My brother also has had enormous consequences in his life because some of the older neighborhood kids showed him what online pørn was while he was in 4th grade. Anyway, thanks for sharing. I'm sorry you endured all of that but it sounds like you have some amazing people to help support you. Best wishes for the future.
Yeah but for real you should talk to your husband about working with a therapist to make a course. More men need to learn how to behave that I'm actually shocked we can function at all. As a gay man let me say that garbo men are all over my community too and it's so exhausting that I'm done with them. After my divorce from someone I realized was basically a child, who needed me to keep all the plates spinning because "you're just really good at these things, Chris", I told myself that I'm not doing it again. He walked all over me and even though he wasn't the first he was definitely the last. So yes, course, great idea, 10/10 I do support your husband doing it.
To Michael Mershon - thank you for speaking up. You are a cycle breaker and a voice against generational trauma. I’m so sorry about what your family has done to you, and their lack of support for you. Says everything about them as people.
Purity culture is so messed up. I grew up Mormon, and I literally never got The Talk until *AFTER* my wedding day! My dad attempted to sit me down and have a chat and I had to shut him down and tell him we figured it out. Too little, too late, dude.
Exmo too!! So insane and disturbing looking at it from the opposite side. So many parallels. The church gets away with so much shit and is right up there with Scientology and other more "well known" cults
Hello!!!! No active Mormon here also. I figured it out when I was 16 lol. My best friends were the daughters of a bishop, and stake president. They both got pregnant when they were juniors in high school. Of course, their parents made them get married. Turned out well for them. 😢😢
I volunteered with my dog at a mental health facility in Utah (I am not Mormon). I cannot explain how many young women were there because they had violated their "family values" OR they were asking questions about their sexuality. It was heartbreaking how many kids had been put into foster care because they were disowned by their parents.
Fellow non-Mormon Utahn. Thank you for bringing comfort and love to the kids when they’re needing it most. It’s infuriating the control the LDS church has on this state, especially how oppressed women and girls are
I am a pastor’s daughter and this whole video brought me so much comfort and peace. Purity culture is absolutely harmful and I wish I could put into words the problems it has caused me in adulthood. Thank you, CC, for putting this together and for being so tactful and respectful. Sending love and healing to anyone affected by this type of religious abuse ❤
I grew up in a high control religious environment and had to attend a "Modest is Hottest" purity seminar that lasted all weekend. Whoooo boy is it hard to make friends when everyone else went to comicon and you were at virginitycon.
As an eldest child with a bunch of eldest child friends, we get a very different view of our parents than our younger siblings. We’re the “trial run” and I’m not saying this to defend the mom because I think she’s deplorable. I’m saying that Michael sees their mother for what she really is… to her core. And I’m from Texas and wooo I’m here for this video!!! Great job Chelsea!
That is a really interesting take. I never thought of it that way bc I'm the third of four. Middle child even though I'm the third lol I'm best friends with my mum. Honestly, I think my oldest sister was always going to be the way she is. I have awesome parents though, I'm lucky. We have family friends who can vouch for that. But again, I've never heard anyone describe it like this, so it really gives me something to chew on. ❤
My great grandpa (mum's side) was a Nazi as well. I'm Austrian. He was arrested after the war for war crimes. He joined voluntarily and did some absolutely horrible things. It's ironic because my grandpa on my dad's side was drafted into the German army against his will, deserted despite knowing his entire family could be sent to concentration camps because of it, and actively worked in the underground resistance. But you know what? I can still say who my nazi great grandfather was because I'm honest about how fucking horrible that is. Pretending that never happened isn't really making it better, but it's important to acknowledge how bad it is, and that people do have choices.
I'm American and my 4th great grandfather (who was also the brother of my 2nd great grandfather. WTF.) was a slave owner and slave apologist, who made a speech before congress justifying slavery. We can't help who our ancestors are, but we can strive to do better!
I went to a Bible college for my first semester and they called it “School of Bridal” instead of Bible…because these girls would be there for less than a year, be engaged by the end of year 1, married before when they would have gone to year 2, and often pregnant and no longer attending in year two. It was terrifying. The men went for year two to get their associates equivalent and then to seminary and the girls just…settled down and dropped out. I know one girl who was nearly unalived by her husband because he was so abusive but nobody would help her because they were married and everyone was so against divorce. Every time I think of going to that place I’m so glad I found “bad influences” who got me away from there.
I went an ultra-conservative private college, and I was honestly shocked by how many of the girls my freshman year were talking about "finding a husband." I was like, ladies, settle down, I'm here for a freaking four-year education, not husband shopping.
My mom had that book when I was growing up, to train up a child. I was for sure beaten, like CPS would have taken me away if they knew some of the times she beat me. I was raised to be a helpmeet. When my boyfriend dropped food on the ground my mom stopped him from cleaning it and made me clean it. All of this that you're saying is my upbringing and childhood. I was raised in the independent fundamental king James version believing baptist church. I wasn't homeschooled. But the ones that were, used Goddard's stuff. I never thought anything was wrong with how I was raised or the way I thought. That the man was put first, and I was subservient to him. Only here on earth for him basically. It wasn't untill I went off to college and met new friends that didn't go to church, that I finally opened my eyes. I have to remind my boyfriend even today that I'm still fighting myself to be submissive and please him. So when he ask me what I want to do or what I want, I genuinely don't know because I was programmed to want what he wants. So it's been a process. Therapy definitely helps. But it's still a struggle to voice what I want.
It's heartbrokening to hear stories like these. It takes so much streight and courage to get out of this type of situation, I'm glad you were able to make that cucial decision for yourself. Keep fighting and continue to surround yourself with people that makes you happy. ❤
I saw that on Rachael Oates' coverage, and although SICKENED to have to see it again, I'm so glad CC is covering that. Absolutely inappropriate and shows how dangerous purity culture is! That poor baby will hear that podcast one day!! 💔💔💔 How violating!! 🥺
I really don’t get what the fuss is about that. It’s not like they were experimenting on her, they were just observing her anatomy. It would be kind of medically fucked up of a parent to have a child and not even know where their basic body parts are. I’m not saying grope them or something, but just to point at the genitals and be like “uhhh every female human has these it’s literally right there”, how is that different than if someone thought it was abnormal to have two balls instead of one and someone was like “no, two is normal, look at little Tommy when yr changing him, he has two”. There’s nothing intrinsically more lewd abt it just bc it’s female anatomy.
@@SpecialBlanket Using someone else's body, against their will (since a child cannot consent) for an anatomy lesson is extremely insensitive at best. That little girl will grow up knowing that her most private areas were used as a teaching tool for an adult woman. They could have just as easily looked up anatomical drawings and not used someone else's body for this.
@@SpecialBlanketI get what you’re saying, but its fact they were uncomfortable of pointing out on themselves using their own female anatomy but saw no issues using a baby. Add that they published this video, likely without the consent of daughter, to the Internet. Anyone who knows their daughter who sees this video will know this about her.
@@SpecialBlanketno wonder you’re anonymous. Oh my god. Just because they’re babies doesn’t mean they’re not owed privacy and some form of bodily autonomy. Are you joking?
I'm hearing Michael's testimony, and it remindeded me of a video of Rachel Oates. She also did a deep dive on Girl Defined, and she digged up some of Bethany's old blog posts. Apparently, she was super into sports, more specifically, basketball, and even managed to get a college scholarship, but was talked out of taking it by her parents. Even though I despise their content and the message they preach, I couldn't help but feel sad for the healthy young girl Bethany never got to be.
Micheal is so brave for publicly speaking out. It can be difficult to talk against your family. Also this video is so well done. You were so respectful of the guests and it was clearly well researched and put together.
This is triggering my Religious Trauma so badly. As someone raised in the Southern Baptist Evangelical church, I'm hearing so many things that I was abused and brainwashed into believing. I'm fully out now and healing, if I can't finish the video I apologize but thank you for doing all this work. Keep it up! We need to open more minds and expose the truth.
Keep your mental health safe above all else. Things that re-traumatize us are not part of good trauma therapy. I’m sorry that you had such a difficult experience with your brand of religion. You’re definitely not alone! Sending ✌️💕and ✨✨to you.
I grew up in a baptist church in the late 60’s-early 70’s, before the big evangelical movement. The pastor at the time started preaching the whole wifely submission thing and my parents disagreed. We stopped going.
Thank goodness they both saw the absurdity in that. My mother would have done the same. She absolutely refused to say the "obey" part of the traditional vows in her wedding. 😄 Yet she was a CCD teacher at one point. 🤷♀️ There comes a time when you have to say, "ALRIGHT, that's where I draw the line line!" It's heartbreaking to see so many people not able (or not willing) to have that clarity.
The problem is that submission is a Biblical principle, but not even remotely in the way that it is preached. A lot of churches act like women should sit there with their mouthes shut and do whatever they are told. That's not remotely what we're supposed to do. It's taken out of context and often used as a way to abuse/harm women under the guise of "sanctification" or "godliness". Absolutely insane. I submit to my husband, but I am not a doormat. My husband takes my input and we decide things together. If both options are equally biblical, we go with his plan. It is a partnership. The husband is to consider the wisdom of his wife HEAVILY. She should never be pushed down or pushed aside. As a Christian, I absolutely hate the way this is idea is taught.
@@jackieolson6412so he has to listen to you, but ultimately he gets to decide and you get to submit? It still sounds oppressive and without equality to me. Mostly because the idea that gender gets to decide who has more power is wild to me.
@@EMILY4DAYS It's not really that simple and I totally get where you're coming from! If we both have equally viable ideas/plans and neither is sin, I will defer to his judgement. I don't always, but It's worked out really well for us, honestly. I'm someone who believes we were designed differently as male/female, but equally. I'm much better than him some things, and he's better than me at other things. We play into those strengths and that's generally how we make decisions. He listens to me and takes that heavily into consideration. A man who doesn't is foolish. The church has butchered what submission really means and I totally get why people don't agree. Plus, if you don't believe in scripture, there's absolutely no reason to even consider submission, nor should any believer expect you to pay it any mind. You also have to have a husband who is worthy of your respect and submission. If you have a man who is going to abuse it, that's a totally different story. At the end of the day, my personal faith is why I do what I do, but he does not have an "overrule" button where he gets to decide everything for me.
I love that we can all have differences of opinions, and it's done so intelligently and without malice. This is the best platform on UA-cam, and has the best respectful comments out of all the reaction channels.
"These people sure love changing their actual names, but *god forbid* someone have their *preferred pronouns* in their bio..." 👏🏽 👏🏼 👏🏾 👏 👏🏿 👏🏻 Chelsea, you are a QUEEN 👸🏻 💅 and we bow down to this scrumptious serving of logic and wit.
I feel so sad for folks who are stuck in the world of "pleasure is bad." No. No no. Pleasure is healthy, and needed for long-term mental health. A great book I'm reading is Pleasure Activism by adrienne maree brown, highly recommend! Love, a therapist ❤
That's what I don't get... if pleasure is bad (according to these groups) ... does the husband not touch his wife when she is pregnant? I mean if you are just trying to procreate and she pregnant then sex would be a sin...?
@@noreenelizabeth6617a lot of dudes actually don’t want to fuck their pregnant wives bc they’re freaked out abt hurting the baby, or they feel like they’re having sexual contact w the baby if they do, or whatever.
The amount of work in this video is amazing! The interview with Michael is powerful and really shows how damaging the mother's influence was on the kids. It's been crazy seeing how close Bethany's husband is to an epiphany that what they're trying to peddle is wrong, but then she pulls him back into the sphere. I hope that she stops trying to sell her garbage scammy courses and leaves the idea of other people's "purity" alone 🍄🍄
I remember my mother, who homeschooled myself and my siblings, mentioning to me she bought two of the Pearl's books, _To Train Up A Child_ and _Created To Be His Help Meet_ and was *disgusted* by both, and thought Gothard's teaching were disturbingly draconian. It wasn't until years later when everything came out did she realized what a massive bullet we had dodged by avoiding groups that adhered or promoted those "teachings".
That clip about showing another person where the cl*t is on a *baby* is beyond creepy. Use the internet or something! Just typing it out gives me the ick. Who does that?
It’s very interesting that Michael said his sisters were elevated and protected because typically it’s the opposite. There’s misogyny vibes and the sons are SPECIAL✨ the women only have value if married but otherwise kind of useless. Due to the environment Michael describes, I can see where Kristen and Bethany get their confidence.
With MOM being the cult leader it makes a TON of sense. She controlled everything, and likely saw her daughter as reflections of her. Her sons weren't good enough
This is also part of cults where women are forced/coerced to have many many children. I think of quiverfull and the Mormon cults like FLDS and AUB. The powerful men want "fruitful" wives and many girl children to trade between themselves and make more and more babies through the generations. Women have this power over reproduction that the group wishes to control and exploit. Boys are comparatively expendable... And if you have a boy perceived as rebellious, who might not _want_ to stay in the ideology, marry young, and get with the multiplying, well... He's useless. The point is ABLP and co are sex cults doing typical sex cult things.
@@mostlyvoid.partiallystars if you like historical battle movies, watch Waterloo. Christopher Plummer played The Duke of Wellington. All of the military history UA-camrs say that it is pretty much historically accurate.
@@mostlyvoid.partiallystarsHe's the old man in Knives Out, and I believe he was in National Treasure. If you want to see him youngish and shirtless, watch Return of the Pink Panther from the 70s. He died a few years ago.
This was an amazingly well researched and presented video. At first, I was like "Hm, not sure what could be said that I haven't read before" but HOLY HELL. Thank you for giving Michael a platform. Absolutely horrific -- that family is more twisted than I realized.
Omg so much of religion is reliant on shame. I was raised super evangelical - and literally shame is the #1 motivator for everything even when they cloak it as something else
@@virginiavanni8061 It's so true. Look at the stuff the brother talks about, how he was exposed to unusual sexual situations at a young age while simultaneously being shamed away from anything sexual. It's like they set up their children to fail so they can use their children's 'sins' to shame and control them. Or look at Josh Duggar. His family claimed to be all about purity and yet he was SAing girls at a young age, cheating on his wife, paying for sex with prostitutes and downloading PDF files.
Yes, I grew up in a Baptist church. It can be like this. I finally started wondering how life would be not being SUCH a goody goody. I slowly left the cult.
Them talking about Marilyn is extra infuriating bc Marilyn was heavily into studying Judaism - I can’t remember if she officially converted but she absolutely had faith and had god
She did officially convert! She was not particularly theistic however, I think she called herself a Jewish atheist, which isn’t actually contradictory, belief in god isn’t a key a part of Judaism as it is for Christianity. (Saying this as someone who’s religiously Jewish but also agnostic.)
@@TheElf_OnlineI know UA-cam comments are not the place for it but can you recommend sources to understand how a belief in God is not a key part in Judaism? I understand there is an ethnic side to Judaism but if you’re converting to a religion it seem to me you should at least believe in the god you’re converting to? I don’t know I’m a bit confused about this, thank you in advance and have a nice day 😊
@@elif6908 Yeah no problem! UA-cam will probably nuke my comment if I give any links, but My Jewish Learning has several articles surrounding Jewish belief in god, it’s a good resource on Judaism overall. But if you search up just “Jewish atheism” in general, you can find a lot of articles about it and peoples personal experiences. Everyone’s relationship with god is different in Judaism, and sometimes that includes not believing or even just being like “I don’t know”. But to try and TLDR: It’s not uncommon to question god in a sort of theoretical sense, but specifically after the holocaust, many survivors became atheists as far as their belief in god goes, especially after what they went through. But obviously they’re still Jewish and many continued to practice. Judaism is also orthopraxic, there’s a heavy focus on what you _do_ rather than what you think (orthodoxy), unlike Christianity for example. And so you don’t nessisarily have to belive in God to follow mitzvot (usually translated as commandments, but it’s really more like “good deeds” in a lot of cases). There’s also not a focus on devine punishments, you do things because they’re good to do, not because if you don’t you’ll be punished. The point is doing good while you’re still here on earth, and being observant in that way is absolutely still possible as someone who doesn’t belive in god. There’s also this idea that stems mainly from Christianity that all religions automatically equals belief in a higher power, when many religions out there are actually atheistic, like Buddhism. Being religious doesn’t automatically equate to believing in a (or many) god/s. The same thing _can_ go for Judaism as well. Personally I have a complex relationship with the idea of a god. The best way to describe it is it’s kinda like Schrödinger’s god for me. But I don’t wear a kippah (head covering) because of a possible higher power, I wear one because it just feels like the right thing to do for me. And like you said, there’s the whole cultural and ethnic component as well. When someone converts, they also become culturally and ethnically Jewish, on top of their pre-existing ethnicity. It’s not just a religion and when you convert you’re getting all of it, no matter what. It’s an ethnoreligion for a reason. You can’t fully separate the religion from the ethnicity or vice versa. Coverts can choose to be only culturally Jewish too, although it would probably make it harder to convert depending on how liberal/conservative a movement you’re converting into (liberal and conservative have nothing to do with politics here btw). After someone converts, they’re not (or at least not supposed to be) considered any different than someone who was born into the religion. So they have just as much of a right to only participate culturally if they choose. (Although it’s definitely not common. Most converts I’ve met are some of the most observant people I know, and certainly more knowledgeable about Judaism than I am too) But ultimately like I said at the beginning, everyone’s relationship with god is different. For a lot of Jews God IS absolutely central to their faith, and that’s just as valid as someone like me who’s religious observance doesn’t hinge on belief at all. I’m not Norma Jeane, so I don’t know the intricacies of her beliefs and faith, what her exact views were and why she chose to label herself the way she did, but I fully imagine they’re just as complex as any other persons.
I am going through and approving comments rn if you comment a link it will go into my held for review folder and I will approve it. educational and insightful resources are always welcome
Thank you so much for your very beautiful and through response! Maybe you got from my username but I’m Middle Eastern descend and an ex-Muslim so there’s so much misinformation regarding Judaism I need to work on. I’ll be checking on My Jewish Learning as well as reading more about orthodoxy vs orthopraxicy as that sounds fascinating. Thanks again and have a good day/week/month/year ☺️
I cannot describe how well-structured, well-researched, and well-written this video is, and I applaud you, Chelsea, for it. But more than that, you showed so much grace, respect, compassion, and understanding to your interviewees and about the high-control groups in general. I cannot commend you enough for reaching out to the survivors and allowing them a safe space to share their stories, and I want to thank you for all the work you (and Ethan!) put into creating such an expositive, informative, sensitive, and mindful video
Wow, so that poor man basically got treated like certain of Ruby Franke’s kids. How awful! Then you have Jordan and Mackay and I love them, they speak about their lived experience and the healing they’ve had to go to, and Jordan now being qualified in giving HEALTHY counselling. This video, the deep diving into backgrounds and all the who, how, what, why of ‘girl defined’. Btw one of Ruby Franke’s sisters did a video on ‘blanket training’ on her family channel. It was quite hard to watch! So 👏👏👏 for this video. It was non biased and non judgemental. I will be watching this again!!!
For those who don't know: blanket abuse (not "training") involves placing a child as young as an infant on a blanket. The abuser takes a toy and tries to lure the infant off the blanket. When the infant is distracted by the toy and crawls off the blanket, the abuser hits the infant with a heavy object like a wooden spoon over and over again, until the abuse teaches the infant to sit passively on the blanket to avoid abuse. This abuse is the kind of "parenting" that the religious right wants to put beyond the law, calling THEIR child abuse "freedom of religion."
I remembered that one of the family vloggers had boasted about that blanket training (I was outraged then, and it only gets worse now), but I couldn't remember which one it was. Seems like that whole family uses the same book as a guide to parenting.
I see the blanket training thing often mentioned on subreddits and mentioned by yters that cover 8 passengers. I think it's important to add that what Bonnie described is not the same as blanket training in the way that we know the fundies to have done it (as far as I can tell 'blanket training' includes hitting your kid when they get off the blanket; 'blanket time', the babywise method, is not the same thing).
@@hawkeyescoffee6399 I’m pretty sure it was the one called Bonnie. I’ve never directly watched any of them but another creator featured the video, and she seems to have been similar in her child training. These women come from parents that were very ‘spare the rod’ themselves, but the blanket training video was truly uncomfortable. The baby was just lying there but the daughter was not too far away, but turned part away from the baby, completely silent….and this wasn’t a ‘punishment’ it was training, as if kids were puppies, and from the slightly older child you just knew she had done this many, many times. I’ve yet to come up with a good reason for putting your baby on a blanket and completely ignoring them at a developmental stage when rolling over is something you want them to start learning while safely on the floor.
Being in a high control group during my young years really messed me up. I’m so glad you did this video and thank you. I felt so alone but now I know where to look for people that understand.
I had no idea about their brother, like much of this story but thank you for bringing further awareness to his story & a vastly different perspective coming from another sibling. So sad & I can’t IMAGINE how difficult/tricky it is to continue hearing your siblings preach versions of the teachings that hurt you so badly. Sending him the best wishes & strength on his healing journey. 💜
Idk how I haven’t heard what Michael wrote on Reddit until now 😣😣 I’m sick to my stomach for the boy that happened to and the adult that has to deal with that trauma
Hi Cc I dm’ed you the other day. I’m a work from home stay at home mom and I have a hard time finding other UA-camrs that speak so openly about how hard it is to run a channel and be a primary caregiver. Your openness has encouraged me to try and speak to my audience about it too… anyways congratulations on this video. The 3 interviews were amazing ! I hope we see more of this. You are a badass 👏🏽 also thank you Tony for being a supportive husband and sharing your wonderful intelligent gift of a wife with us ❤
Grew up in a small school/church and didn’t realize until I was in my thirties that I had religious trauma. Girl Defined and purity culture/fundie culture does SO MUCH harm.
The interviews! The Jordan & McKay cross over! Chelsea, this is such a great deep dive that absolutely stands out from the other commentary videos on the girl defined universe. Scammers work hard, but you & Ethan work harder!!! 💐
You did a brilliant job interviewing and Michael offered a wonderful perspective. Brought me to tears, I’m young and early in my healing journey but related so very much to his reflections on the abuse he experienced. Going no-contact saved my life and showed me a brand new world. Recovering from traumatic experiences is not easy but safety, stability, and peace are possible!!
I grew up LDS and hearing about the poor wife that got the really bad UTI is very similar to how i didnt know what a female orgasm was until i was 19🤦🏽♀️ people need to stop using religion to justify stunting their kids’ educations
Okay, the blanket training information is incredibly upsetting. Putting your baby on a blanket and surrounding them with toys that they want, to encourage them to go for them is literally what any pediatrician worth their salt will tell you to do to help your child with their motor function and extension and vision and NORMAL GROWTH FFS! 🤬🤬🤬🤬
Any kind of expert in children's development. I'm not even an expert, but I know that children need stimulation to develop correctly. Hospitalization and deprivation can lead to many disabilities. Emotional and intellectual to even physical. I'm not joking, that's my actual area of work. It's awful
It is upsetting. I did not grow up in ATI but did go to one of their training centers as a young adult. I remember talking to a father who worked there. He shared with me how he first spanked his then toddler, when she was still an infant. He used a pencil. He thought his infant was crying to be manipulative. It shocked me then. I still feel heartbroken for that kiddo.
I first heard about blanket training when watching a video about cults and Mormonism while holding my firstborn child who was about 7 months old at the time... likely partially hormones still going crazy but I burst into tears. Thinking of hitting my baby because I'VE put him in a situation where he's surrounded by things he wants and he goes to get those things was just horrifying and unimaginable. I can't imagine the confusion and distrust a baby would experience and develop being blanket trained.
@@belletynan4914It’s truly and utterly horrifying, heartbreaking, and infuriating. I’m not a mother to human kiddos, but I adore my furbabies and the sweet children for whom I helped care in my family (younger brother, cousins, second cousins, friends). I just cannot ever imagine striking a child, but especially an infant. They don’t know what’s going on and it’s so cruel, psychologically, emotionally, and physically. It hurts my heart to imagine that happening to any children, but this is worse because it’s certainly happened to *most* of the children in these cults.
Thanks for covering this topic! I've been following you for about 2 years now in hopes to aid in my journey to deprogram myself after growing up in the IBLP cult. For some reason hearing about MLM groups and manipulation has helped my deconstruction process. I guess it's more helpful to look at an unrelated situation and see the glaringly obvious signs of control and manipulation and then see the correlations between MLM groups and religious cults such as IBLP. It's been a freaking hard process but you have been a really helpful resource for me in this journey. ❤
Can confirm the purity culture can be dangerous. My best friend rushed into marriage because the temptation was too strong. For me my mom was very much wait till marriage and all that. My views on sex have been so skewed in comparison to my sister. It was very shameful in my house but when my sister grew up it was an open happy conversation. This is something I still struggle with 10 years later. Therapy helps so much!
This is so well done. I am a clinical mental health counseling major in a masters program and I have to say, your listening skills are on point and the level of respect and empathy for these individuals that you had is just incredible. So proud of how far you’ve come!
I've seen a ton of videos about girl defined but none that talk much about Michael so I'm really glad his story is getting out there. Phenomenal video Chelsea! 🍄
35 now, I was forced to go to a fundamentalist baptist school and church that had the same fundamental “values”. A lot of trauma got to the point that I ran away from it all at 17. I felt like my end was coming unless I did something that drastic. Everything I had been through still hurts me by surprise. I had always rebelled mentally to it all from such a young age, but somehow I didn’t even figure out it was a fundie version of Christianity until last year! It feels crazy sometimes just putting all the pieces together. I was calling it “I think it’s a cult” into finding out “I was in a cult!” Thank you to everyone bringing attention and information about so many groups/cults.
YESSSSS I grew up in the cult of the Church of Christ. The overwhelming similarities are staggering. Then my mom joined the Pentecostal Charismatics… nothing but sexism, shady wealth
Yes! I went to a southern Baptist church in Texas and even I was shocked when I visited a Pentecostal church with a friend from school 😳 Like they’re super extreme but I don’t feel like we hear a lot about them.
My grandmother was in that church. I don't know if she still goes. She's married to a Mormon guy (my grandpa and her 2nd husband both died). My mom doesn't talk about that church and we never attended it as kids. I also knew someone my age that suffered trauma at the hands of that church, specifically one of the clergy members.
I was Oneness Pentecostal, charasmatic. I feel like you'll see " this is a cult" videos in about 5 years from now. Right now there are no supportive people to help you through it. I know, I made videos and winded up deleting most because people attacked me for calling it a cult. And there are mixed emotions, I enjoyed my wild "Little House on the Prairie" raising. I was not allowed to have so much (TV, movies, videogames, books with magic/too much romance/sex, Bratz/Pokemon and other specific toys, draw anime, read manga, celebrate Halloween, have a Christmas tree, listen to "secular" music, listen to Christian music where the members looked "too worldly", listen to Christian rock or rap, swim in front of men, eat when we were fasting despite being 6yo, sports, plays, et. cet.) but I also learned so many skills in a very Montesorri kind of way. I could draw/paint, cook, sew outfits, crochet, write short novels, program websites despite not being allowed to have Internet, et. cet. And I got around the "no magic" rule by reading sci-fi which I adored. I had fun as a child, and homeschooling on a huge plot of land felt very free and adventurous. But as I turned into a teenager the expectations got very demanding and contradictory. They told me I couldn't be alone with a boy or date, but I was still supposed to somehow get married. And get a man to be attracted to me while dressing like I lived in the 1800s. Then I was called a failure BECAUSE I followed the rules. I was the most devout member, I believed it was the best way to live until I was about 22 and started to realize how contradictory their expectations of women were. Just wait a few years, and Pentecostalism will be the new Mormonism when we aren't so afraid to talk about it.
Amazing video, as usual. Thank you for continuing to make this type of content! For the first 10 years of my life, my family belonged to what I consider a Christian cult. Fortunately, my parents realized what an unhealthy, controlling group it was and we left. Personally, my 10 year old self knew something was off when the pastor tried telling my parents that I shouldn’t have Cabbage Patch dolls because I was inviting the devil into my life?!?! 🤯 🍄 💕bonus points for the Trixie cameo!💕
The willful ignorance! Kristen: "..we know there are sooo many definitions of 'feminism'..." Um.. No. There's only one. Equal rights & opportunities. That's it.
23:16 (Bill Gothard photo) Oh how I love the Pride Flag fluttering in the breeze. Nicely captured, Videographer. Over and over as you discussed these people, Bailey Sarian screamed in my brain, "Get better idols." Chelsea, it's amazing how you kept everything linear in this jumble of knotted thread. I had to follow along with the transcript. Can you list the books you recommended? (I did pause at 32:45 to buy "Scarred.")
I greatly appreciate your disclaimer of being forced to comply. My family is from the Sudetenland but were dissidents, my great grandfather observed a Hitler rally and came home telling my great grandmother he was a nut job. He was arrested for feeding Jewish children bread. We have a photo before my grandma was born where the older siblings were in the Hitler youth attire because all students were forced to
OMG I can’t believe they used ATI for their homeschool program- yikes!!!! It’s giving Duggar’s in the WORST way. Those teachings are SO dangerous. 🤦🏽♀️🤯
I just love how Kristen and Bethany are blaming women's displeasure in finding love on them being ungodly and not how toxic masculinity has gotten. Clearly its not the incels and red pillers that are making it harder for women to find suitable partners.
Idk man. I’ve never even met one of these guys irl. I’m a retired sex worker and I’ve never been shamed for it by a guy literally ever, I work in a male dominated field and I’ve only ever heard one dude say women shouldn’t work in it (irl), and so on. most incels probably aren’t out there talking to a bunch of women messing up the dating market, they’re mostly hikkikomori, right?
@@SpecialBlanket while I agree sex work is in fact a legit profession, saying you've never encountered a toxic male of the fundamentalist type is like a sushi chef saying they've never served a vegan, that's not the type of client one would expect to see requesting your services
I'm loving these deep dives! They actually make me put down my phone/dogs/the load of laundry slowly dying a wrinkled death, and just focus on the video. As an ADHD'er, I can't say that for many things 😂
This was so good and honestly I think I need to watch it again. The part about the kids is really hard for me so I hope children born into these cults find their way out and can heal ❤️
At first I was wondering how you watched a two hour video when it only says it came out eight minutes ago, but then I saw that you’re a member, right? Maybe I need to become a member hahah
This was such an informational video and I just really appreciate the way you let the speakers really speak and share their input and you never control or take over the conversation! Been a long time viewer and your videos are literally my favorite thing ever.
CC, I have so much respect for the amount of work and thought you put into your video essays. you bring a much-needed level of sobriety and logical thought to these discussions. keep doing what you're doing, girl!
I've never watched any of your content before but I find your voice so articulate and precise and soothing. I listen to background vods all day due to tinnitus and hearing issues; I just wanted you to know how much your voice eases my stress and tension.
I love seeing some of my favorite creators working together to bring light to this topic! So glad you were able to have Jordan and McKay on your channel!
This reminds me so much what Ruby did! It's the same vibe. Perfect family blogs and social media, very Christian and traditional, but in the inside so strict and violent l, so much control and punishment. This is so so bad!! So much kids without the chance of speaking about the abuse and have a safe space Thanks for you investigation and work
Great interviews you scored! Says a lot about your reputation in this space. I'm not always a fan of interviews in a deep dive but these were the perfect guests and brought a lot of extra interest to the video.
I grew up in independent Baptist church, couldn't get away fast enough once old enough. Literally couldn't wear sweatpants in a snow storm. Couldn't listen to music unless it aas generated from our church, so the list was small small small! Don't know much about girl defined but here to let you tell ne.
great vid! i’m a jordan and mckay subscriber so i assumed that i got recommended the vid bc of that, but i was so pleasantly surprised to see them as i didn’t know and just clicked out of interest! thank you for your hard work and research!
It' soooo insane to me that they are proud of their *german* roots... I'm german myself and do have ancestors, that were involved in the nsdap but we are definitly not proud of that. In fact, we are ashamed. It makes me sick to think how my ancestors lived a better life than other people because they agreed and even participated in the general mindset. It's revolting and nothing to be proud about. You would get so many dirty looks in germany if you posted pics like that to instagram...
Agreed. My grandparents were German immigrants who came to Ellis island following WW2. It’s a shameful history and I make it a point to be everything that ideology isn’t. Always call out fascism.
@@transsnack exactly! We visited concentration camps in school to really grasp how horrible it was during this time... my great grandma was a teen in nazi germany and told me so many stories, it was just a horrible, horrible time... I just can't get it how you can be proud of that
This is such a fascinating (and tragic, in a way) video. I was really looking for a deep dive into the Bairds. Also I CRACKED UP when you started talking about Eve, naked in the garden, stacked, wearing leaf-shaped pasties. Great job.
I knew girl defined was bad, but then I edited the entire video, and it got worse.
Hi, Ethan! *waves*
We love ❤️ you thank you for what you dooo
We love you Ethan!
You are appreciated Ethan.
Thanks for all your hard work Ethan!
🍄 It’s so frustrating to watch Bethany go through her “sexual awakening” and still not realize that her past content/teachings contributed to her misunderstanding of sex smh She’s so close yet so far away
As I read your comment while the video was still playing, the NXIUM lady was talking about cognitive dissonance and said “you’re afraid to turn and face the bad thing, because you’re afraid it will negate the good thing.” Which is Bethany to a T. She is either incapable of, or scared to, reconcile with the damaging parts of her upbringing and how she had to do some work to deconstruct it. Hell she won’t even call it “deconstruction” because that’s such a dirty word to them.
Also... she's doing what she would have abhorred when she wasn't married.
Imo.
@@radschele1815 because she believes in waiting until marriage to have sex, so of course
@@phi4721 Sex only for fun is not really what she thought it should be for, afaik.
It really is. And the fact that instead of it being a lightbulb moment, she monetizes it.
You can't control who you're related to but you can control who you idolize.
YES.
Yes! As a German I can say, it is accepted here not to feel shame for our ancestors but we should know and act better.
@@angelikalaser7778 "Act better" is weird phrasing given the history.
@@trevordonaldson7634 to give this person the benefit of the doubt English is most likely their second language so there's a good chance it's just a funky translation.
@@trevordonaldson7634 Can I ask why ‘act better’ is inappropriate in this situation? English is my second language and it doesn’t feel wrong to me but I’m ignorant of any relevant history of the phrase. Thanks
Nazi arc is absolutely crazy and I can see how obsession to keep bloodlines clean or being proud of being tall, blonde and white all makes sense now
❤ This video is a great work!
the fact that they are so proud and public about being Descendants of a nazi MAYOR is mind blowing to me. it’s no wonder why they love criticizing people that are not hardcore christian’s while scamming people, it’s in their blood!
I like that term “high-control group.” It’s so much more descriptive and less emotional than “cult.”
Absolutely! You would love Dr Steven Hassan’s podcast! It’s called the influencer continuum podcast!
@IAMCCSuarez I've started listening to it bc of you! Very very good
@@IAMCCSuarez *Influence Continuum. Couldn’t find it at first 😅 Thanks for the reco.
I would say high-control group is a great sterile term for research paper. For communication with other people cult will make them understand you mean group that is harmful and ruin members' lives. The emotions words carry can be very useful for true understanding.
It's a lot more inclusive mentally. There's a high bar in people's minds to meet the definition of a cult... but a high control group doesn't have the stigma and stereotyping attached to it. It's easier to convince someone to accept that they're in a high control group than a cult... my opinion, I could be wrong
My dad told us AIDS was God’s punishment for having sex outside of marriage
Yes I’m Queer
Sooooo shoutout to all the survivors in these comments
I believe that was a common sentiment for a while. 🥹
This is why I have such respect for Liz Taylor. At a time when no one wanted to be associated with HIV/AIDS, she was the face of one of their biggest charities. She lost a best friend to AIDS, and never let that shame-based, hateful, and ignorant comments get to her. 💜💜
That’s awful! 😢
it's a punishment for being a gay man, they are the ones that cause it, how do you not know this?
I wonder what he would say if I told him about my friends mom, who died from AIDS in the early aughts. She had no idea her husband was cheating on her. Why was she for her husband’s infidelity and his not using protection?
That's so awful, my parents would never say that
As an exmormon who was banned from the mandatory sex ed health class in high school, I was a gift wrapped victim for my abuser. I had zero idea how to say no, what was okay and wasn't okay. He escalated to grape and I stayed with him because he had trained me to gaslight myself about my own feelings. I had no one to ask about these things. I couldn't cry out when it happened because then I would have gotten in trouble even though I had said no to it.
Even in my next relationship, I still didn't understand consent and often allowed things that I wasn't really wanting but again did not feel like I was even allowed to say no.
Thank God for my husband who has basically guilt tripped me into listening to my own feelings. He softly scolded me when he noticed that I had gone with things even though I wasn't actually in the mood. He told me straight up that unless I really want stuff then he doesn't want anything. He never makes me feel guilty for needing some space, and times that I can't even be touched at all due to CPTSD. He has worked to understand my boundaries and practically demands that I also don't cross them (as I have a bad habit of just dismissing my own feelings and boundaries). He is amazing and I deeply wish that his mentality was the norm.
He should set up a course to compete with Bethany 😂 it at least would do some good!
Purity culture is so damaging and dangerous and I hope that we can leave it in the garbage where it belongs.
Your husband seems great. I hope you can grow beside him.
Into your own person with a very awesome and strong partner in your side, of you didn't already.
Much love to you, you're already wholesomely awesome
I'm so sorry you went through something so terrible. I'm glad you found such a great husband. I did also and he really helps me cope. Sending you hugs 💜
It's a tad bit ironic I'm seeing post tonight. I was just having an argument about parents being too overprotective when it comes to sexual education. You can't recognize something is abusive until you know what to look for. One of the reasons my abuser got away with it for as long as he did was because I had no frame of reference for it. I was also told to stop lying by his mother, who was my father's girlfriend at the time. I got so used to avoiding any mention or thought of it that I didn't divulge it until my 3rd round of inpatient chem dep treatment.
My brother also has had enormous consequences in his life because some of the older neighborhood kids showed him what online pørn was while he was in 4th grade.
Anyway, thanks for sharing. I'm sorry you endured all of that but it sounds like you have some amazing people to help support you. Best wishes for the future.
❤ from a fellow exmormon
Yeah but for real you should talk to your husband about working with a therapist to make a course. More men need to learn how to behave that I'm actually shocked we can function at all. As a gay man let me say that garbo men are all over my community too and it's so exhausting that I'm done with them. After my divorce from someone I realized was basically a child, who needed me to keep all the plates spinning because "you're just really good at these things, Chris", I told myself that I'm not doing it again. He walked all over me and even though he wasn't the first he was definitely the last. So yes, course, great idea, 10/10 I do support your husband doing it.
To Michael Mershon - thank you for speaking up. You are a cycle breaker and a voice against generational trauma. I’m so sorry about what your family has done to you, and their lack of support for you. Says everything about them as people.
Purity culture is so messed up. I grew up Mormon, and I literally never got The Talk until *AFTER* my wedding day! My dad attempted to sit me down and have a chat and I had to shut him down and tell him we figured it out. Too little, too late, dude.
AFTER?! sitting your daughter down after she’s married to talk about sex is WILD.
Wow, he failed you! While I’m still a virgin at 34, that’s because I’m asexual. And aromantic.
hi fellow exmo!!!
Exmo too!! So insane and disturbing looking at it from the opposite side. So many parallels. The church gets away with so much shit and is right up there with Scientology and other more "well known" cults
Hello!!!! No active Mormon here also.
I figured it out when I was 16 lol. My best friends were the daughters of a bishop, and stake president. They both got pregnant when they were juniors in high school. Of course, their parents made them get married. Turned out well for them. 😢😢
I volunteered with my dog at a mental health facility in Utah (I am not Mormon). I cannot explain how many young women were there because they had violated their "family values" OR they were asking questions about their sexuality. It was heartbreaking how many kids had been put into foster care because they were disowned by their parents.
Yeah that's heartbreaking 😕
Fellow non-Mormon Utahn. Thank you for bringing comfort and love to the kids when they’re needing it most. It’s infuriating the control the LDS church has on this state, especially how oppressed women and girls are
The amount of work you put into this, wow! You are amazing Chelsea! 🙌 and shout out to Ethan! I forgot to add that 🙈
Yes she is! It's so in depth!
Honestly this is really really great. Been waiting for content more like this
It is quite an excellent essay
Agreed! This is super well done
Right she did amazing!! And the editing is wonderful too!
I am a pastor’s daughter and this whole video brought me so much comfort and peace. Purity culture is absolutely harmful and I wish I could put into words the problems it has caused me in adulthood. Thank you, CC, for putting this together and for being so tactful and respectful. Sending love and healing to anyone affected by this type of religious abuse ❤
Here for all the scapegoats spilling the family tea and breaking generational curses 🙌
I grew up in a high control religious environment and had to attend a "Modest is Hottest" purity seminar that lasted all weekend. Whoooo boy is it hard to make friends when everyone else went to comicon and you were at virginitycon.
OMG.
Tbf Comicon is also VirginityCon heyoooo
Ok, you gotta admit that last line was funny.
As an eldest child with a bunch of eldest child friends, we get a very different view of our parents than our younger siblings. We’re the “trial run” and I’m not saying this to defend the mom because I think she’s deplorable. I’m saying that Michael sees their mother for what she really is… to her core. And I’m from Texas and wooo I’m here for this video!!! Great job Chelsea!
I agree! We get to see our parents they way they are before they learn to hide their worst traits!
As a fellow elder child-this was such a great point and insight!
This is so true lol we are little experiments, and I do feel like eldest children tend to be there for the most egregious mistakes a parent will make.
That is a really interesting take. I never thought of it that way bc I'm the third of four. Middle child even though I'm the third lol I'm best friends with my mum. Honestly, I think my oldest sister was always going to be the way she is. I have awesome parents though, I'm lucky. We have family friends who can vouch for that.
But again, I've never heard anyone describe it like this, so it really gives me something to chew on. ❤
My mom had me young and made many mistakes. She did better with my brothers. She didn’t even try to hide it, she called me her practice child 😂
My great grandpa (mum's side) was a Nazi as well. I'm Austrian. He was arrested after the war for war crimes. He joined voluntarily and did some absolutely horrible things. It's ironic because my grandpa on my dad's side was drafted into the German army against his will, deserted despite knowing his entire family could be sent to concentration camps because of it, and actively worked in the underground resistance.
But you know what? I can still say who my nazi great grandfather was because I'm honest about how fucking horrible that is. Pretending that never happened isn't really making it better, but it's important to acknowledge how bad it is, and that people do have choices.
I'm American and my 4th great grandfather (who was also the brother of my 2nd great grandfather. WTF.) was a slave owner and slave apologist, who made a speech before congress justifying slavery. We can't help who our ancestors are, but we can strive to do better!
Sweetie, fasco-Christians are proud of Nazi ancestors. These girls come from a white supremacist family.
Ok this made me cry. The trauma, the abuse of Michael and how his mom doesn’t take accountability. She’s the devil
This made me cry too. I feel sorry for the kids harmed in this
The part where Michael said "I was conditioned to never say no" that punched me in the gut. Same dude. Same. 😢
Misogyny hurts everyone.
💯 🎯 No Notes
But FIRST and most importantly women.
I went to a Bible college for my first semester and they called it “School of Bridal” instead of Bible…because these girls would be there for less than a year, be engaged by the end of year 1, married before when they would have gone to year 2, and often pregnant and no longer attending in year two. It was terrifying. The men went for year two to get their associates equivalent and then to seminary and the girls just…settled down and dropped out.
I know one girl who was nearly unalived by her husband because he was so abusive but nobody would help her because they were married and everyone was so against divorce. Every time I think of going to that place I’m so glad I found “bad influences” who got me away from there.
I went an ultra-conservative private college, and I was honestly shocked by how many of the girls my freshman year were talking about "finding a husband." I was like, ladies, settle down, I'm here for a freaking four-year education, not husband shopping.
"...so I guessed the pw on the first try" 😂
As an I.T. professional, this is great. Strong passwords are important people!! Lol don't be like them ^^
When she said that I peed myself. Like how dumb are these people?? Frightening tbh
Mershon1. Admin123. Lol
Now I'm DYING to know what it is! Maybe 'password'?
@@virginiavanni8061this I really wanna know what it is now
My guess was the name. I want it to be password though.@@virginiavanni8061
My mom had that book when I was growing up, to train up a child. I was for sure beaten, like CPS would have taken me away if they knew some of the times she beat me. I was raised to be a helpmeet. When my boyfriend dropped food on the ground my mom stopped him from cleaning it and made me clean it. All of this that you're saying is my upbringing and childhood. I was raised in the independent fundamental king James version believing baptist church. I wasn't homeschooled. But the ones that were, used Goddard's stuff. I never thought anything was wrong with how I was raised or the way I thought. That the man was put first, and I was subservient to him. Only here on earth for him basically. It wasn't untill I went off to college and met new friends that didn't go to church, that I finally opened my eyes. I have to remind my boyfriend even today that I'm still fighting myself to be submissive and please him. So when he ask me what I want to do or what I want, I genuinely don't know because I was programmed to want what he wants. So it's been a process. Therapy definitely helps. But it's still a struggle to voice what I want.
It's heartbrokening to hear stories like these.
It takes so much streight and courage to get out of this type of situation, I'm glad you were able to make that cucial decision for yourself.
Keep fighting and continue to surround yourself with people that makes you happy.
❤
It makes me actually sick Bethany talking to that couple about their daughter. So messed up, beyond messed up.
I saw that on Rachael Oates' coverage, and although SICKENED to have to see it again, I'm so glad CC is covering that. Absolutely inappropriate and shows how dangerous purity culture is!
That poor baby will hear that podcast one day!! 💔💔💔
How violating!! 🥺
I really don’t get what the fuss is about that. It’s not like they were experimenting on her, they were just observing her anatomy. It would be kind of medically fucked up of a parent to have a child and not even know where their basic body parts are. I’m not saying grope them or something, but just to point at the genitals and be like “uhhh every female human has these it’s literally right there”, how is that different than if someone thought it was abnormal to have two balls instead of one and someone was like “no, two is normal, look at little Tommy when yr changing him, he has two”. There’s nothing intrinsically more lewd abt it just bc it’s female anatomy.
@@SpecialBlanket Using someone else's body, against their will (since a child cannot consent) for an anatomy lesson is extremely insensitive at best. That little girl will grow up knowing that her most private areas were used as a teaching tool for an adult woman. They could have just as easily looked up anatomical drawings and not used someone else's body for this.
@@SpecialBlanketI get what you’re saying, but its fact they were uncomfortable of pointing out on themselves using their own female anatomy but saw no issues using a baby. Add that they published this video, likely without the consent of daughter, to the Internet. Anyone who knows their daughter who sees this video will know this about her.
@@SpecialBlanketno wonder you’re anonymous. Oh my god. Just because they’re babies doesn’t mean they’re not owed privacy and some form of bodily autonomy. Are you joking?
I'm hearing Michael's testimony, and it remindeded me of a video of Rachel Oates. She also did a deep dive on Girl Defined, and she digged up some of Bethany's old blog posts. Apparently, she was super into sports, more specifically, basketball, and even managed to get a college scholarship, but was talked out of taking it by her parents. Even though I despise their content and the message they preach, I couldn't help but feel sad for the healthy young girl Bethany never got to be.
Micheal is so brave for publicly speaking out. It can be difficult to talk against your family.
Also this video is so well done. You were so respectful of the guests and it was clearly well researched and put together.
This is triggering my Religious Trauma so badly. As someone raised in the Southern Baptist Evangelical church, I'm hearing so many things that I was abused and brainwashed into believing. I'm fully out now and healing, if I can't finish the video I apologize but thank you for doing all this work. Keep it up! We need to open more minds and expose the truth.
Keep your mental health safe above all else. Things that re-traumatize us are not part of good trauma therapy. I’m sorry that you had such a difficult experience with your brand of religion. You’re definitely not alone! Sending ✌️💕and ✨✨to you.
I grew up in a baptist church in the late 60’s-early 70’s, before the big evangelical movement. The pastor at the time started preaching the whole wifely submission thing and my parents disagreed. We stopped going.
Thank goodness they both saw the absurdity in that. My mother would have done the same. She absolutely refused to say the "obey" part of the traditional vows in her wedding. 😄
Yet she was a CCD teacher at one point. 🤷♀️
There comes a time when you have to say, "ALRIGHT, that's where I draw the line line!"
It's heartbreaking to see so many people not able (or not willing) to have that clarity.
The problem is that submission is a Biblical principle, but not even remotely in the way that it is preached. A lot of churches act like women should sit there with their mouthes shut and do whatever they are told. That's not remotely what we're supposed to do. It's taken out of context and often used as a way to abuse/harm women under the guise of "sanctification" or "godliness". Absolutely insane. I submit to my husband, but I am not a doormat. My husband takes my input and we decide things together. If both options are equally biblical, we go with his plan. It is a partnership. The husband is to consider the wisdom of his wife HEAVILY. She should never be pushed down or pushed aside. As a Christian, I absolutely hate the way this is idea is taught.
@@jackieolson6412so he has to listen to you, but ultimately he gets to decide and you get to submit? It still sounds oppressive and without equality to me. Mostly because the idea that gender gets to decide who has more power is wild to me.
@@EMILY4DAYS It's not really that simple and I totally get where you're coming from! If we both have equally viable ideas/plans and neither is sin, I will defer to his judgement. I don't always, but It's worked out really well for us, honestly. I'm someone who believes we were designed differently as male/female, but equally. I'm much better than him some things, and he's better than me at other things. We play into those strengths and that's generally how we make decisions. He listens to me and takes that heavily into consideration. A man who doesn't is foolish.
The church has butchered what submission really means and I totally get why people don't agree. Plus, if you don't believe in scripture, there's absolutely no reason to even consider submission, nor should any believer expect you to pay it any mind. You also have to have a husband who is worthy of your respect and submission. If you have a man who is going to abuse it, that's a totally different story.
At the end of the day, my personal faith is why I do what I do, but he does not have an "overrule" button where he gets to decide everything for me.
I love that we can all have differences of opinions, and it's done so intelligently and without malice. This is the best platform on UA-cam, and has the best respectful comments out of all the reaction channels.
"These people sure love changing their actual names, but *god forbid* someone have their *preferred pronouns* in their bio..." 👏🏽 👏🏼 👏🏾 👏 👏🏿 👏🏻
Chelsea, you are a QUEEN 👸🏻 💅 and we bow down to this scrumptious serving of logic and wit.
I feel so sad for folks who are stuck in the world of "pleasure is bad." No. No no. Pleasure is healthy, and needed for long-term mental health. A great book I'm reading is Pleasure Activism by adrienne maree brown, highly recommend! Love, a therapist ❤
That's what I don't get... if pleasure is bad (according to these groups) ... does the husband not touch his wife when she is pregnant? I mean if you are just trying to procreate and she pregnant then sex would be a sin...?
highly recommend "Come As You Are" by Emily Nagoski as well. Every woman - and man - should read that book.
As a grad student of social work, I appreciate both of these recommendations so much!
@@noreenelizabeth6617a lot of dudes actually don’t want to fuck their pregnant wives bc they’re freaked out abt hurting the baby, or they feel like they’re having sexual contact w the baby if they do, or whatever.
Pleasure Activism & Come As You Are are now in my Audible list. Thank you!
Thank you for platforming Michael. I’ve been wanting to hear more from him since his Reddit posts. Wishing him peace.
The amount of work in this video is amazing! The interview with Michael is powerful and really shows how damaging the mother's influence was on the kids. It's been crazy seeing how close Bethany's husband is to an epiphany that what they're trying to peddle is wrong, but then she pulls him back into the sphere. I hope that she stops trying to sell her garbage scammy courses and leaves the idea of other people's "purity" alone 🍄🍄
I remember my mother, who homeschooled myself and my siblings, mentioning to me she bought two of the Pearl's books, _To Train Up A Child_ and _Created To Be His Help Meet_ and was *disgusted* by both, and thought Gothard's teaching were disturbingly draconian. It wasn't until years later when everything came out did she realized what a massive bullet we had dodged by avoiding groups that adhered or promoted those "teachings".
This is a documentary...no lie you could have sold this to Netflix and with a baby you did this .... woah the couch people are proud
That clip about showing another person where the cl*t is on a *baby* is beyond creepy. Use the internet or something! Just typing it out gives me the ick. Who does that?
@@melindadevito7326What crime would that be?? Looking at yr own baby? How would you even NOT see a baby’s genitalia while wiping/changing them?
@@SpecialBlanketthey showed their baby’s genitalia to another adult. If you think that’s ok, I really hope you don’t have kids. Freak.
@@SpecialBlanketYou are disturbing.
@@SpecialBlanketYou’re not disturbing. People that are making changing a diaper sexual are disturbing.
@@champton911 they weren’t just changing a diaper, they were looking for the cl*t on a baby.
'I guessed the password on the first try' is killing me... Anyways, Chelsea you are so talented it blows my mind. Keep doing the 'lord's'work;) LOL
It’s very interesting that Michael said his sisters were elevated and protected because typically it’s the opposite. There’s misogyny vibes and the sons are SPECIAL✨ the women only have value if married but otherwise kind of useless. Due to the environment Michael describes, I can see where Kristen and Bethany get their confidence.
With MOM being the cult leader it makes a TON of sense. She controlled everything, and likely saw her daughter as reflections of her. Her sons weren't good enough
I’d be fascinated to know what kind of relationship Heidi had with her parents.
This is also part of cults where women are forced/coerced to have many many children. I think of quiverfull and the Mormon cults like FLDS and AUB. The powerful men want "fruitful" wives and many girl children to trade between themselves and make more and more babies through the generations. Women have this power over reproduction that the group wishes to control and exploit. Boys are comparatively expendable... And if you have a boy perceived as rebellious, who might not _want_ to stay in the ideology, marry young, and get with the multiplying, well... He's useless. The point is ABLP and co are sex cults doing typical sex cult things.
“Let’s not pretend he was the dad from The Sound of Music” lmao 🤣 😂
Re-found that movie about a year ago on Disney+, y’all that dad is hott tho lol.
@@mostlyvoid.partiallystars if you like historical battle movies, watch Waterloo. Christopher Plummer played The Duke of Wellington. All of the military history UA-camrs say that it is pretty much historically accurate.
@@mostlyvoid.partiallystarsHe's the old man in Knives Out, and I believe he was in National Treasure. If you want to see him youngish and shirtless, watch Return of the Pink Panther from the 70s. He died a few years ago.
@@someonerandom256 I saw he had passed, it’s so sad. I can’t come to terms with people like Julie Andrews aging, it feels so unfair! :)
This was an amazingly well researched and presented video. At first, I was like "Hm, not sure what could be said that I haven't read before" but HOLY HELL. Thank you for giving Michael a platform. Absolutely horrific -- that family is more twisted than I realized.
There’s such an element of SHAME in their culture, in particular, in purity culture.
Omg so much of religion is reliant on shame. I was raised super evangelical - and literally shame is the #1 motivator for everything even when they cloak it as something else
And the more shame about sex the more they are obsessed with it
@@virginiavanni8061 It's so true. Look at the stuff the brother talks about, how he was exposed to unusual sexual situations at a young age while simultaneously being shamed away from anything sexual. It's like they set up their children to fail so they can use their children's 'sins' to shame and control them. Or look at Josh Duggar. His family claimed to be all about purity and yet he was SAing girls at a young age, cheating on his wife, paying for sex with prostitutes and downloading PDF files.
Yes, I grew up in a Baptist church. It can be like this. I finally started wondering how life would be not being SUCH a goody goody. I slowly left the cult.
Michael is describing a lot of Ruby/Jody tactics. I'm glad he has been able to seperate himself from this and begin to heal.
Them talking about Marilyn is extra infuriating bc Marilyn was heavily into studying Judaism - I can’t remember if she officially converted but she absolutely had faith and had god
She did officially convert! She was not particularly theistic however, I think she called herself a Jewish atheist, which isn’t actually contradictory, belief in god isn’t a key a part of Judaism as it is for Christianity. (Saying this as someone who’s religiously Jewish but also agnostic.)
@@TheElf_OnlineI know UA-cam comments are not the place for it but can you recommend sources to understand how a belief in God is not a key part in Judaism? I understand there is an ethnic side to Judaism but if you’re converting to a religion it seem to me you should at least believe in the god you’re converting to? I don’t know I’m a bit confused about this, thank you in advance and have a nice day 😊
@@elif6908 Yeah no problem! UA-cam will probably nuke my comment if I give any links, but My Jewish Learning has several articles surrounding Jewish belief in god, it’s a good resource on Judaism overall. But if you search up just “Jewish atheism” in general, you can find a lot of articles about it and peoples personal experiences. Everyone’s relationship with god is different in Judaism, and sometimes that includes not believing or even just being like “I don’t know”.
But to try and TLDR: It’s not uncommon to question god in a sort of theoretical sense, but specifically after the holocaust, many survivors became atheists as far as their belief in god goes, especially after what they went through. But obviously they’re still Jewish and many continued to practice.
Judaism is also orthopraxic, there’s a heavy focus on what you _do_ rather than what you think (orthodoxy), unlike Christianity for example. And so you don’t nessisarily have to belive in God to follow mitzvot (usually translated as commandments, but it’s really more like “good deeds” in a lot of cases). There’s also not a focus on devine punishments, you do things because they’re good to do, not because if you don’t you’ll be punished. The point is doing good while you’re still here on earth, and being observant in that way is absolutely still possible as someone who doesn’t belive in god. There’s also this idea that stems mainly from Christianity that all religions automatically equals belief in a higher power, when many religions out there are actually atheistic, like Buddhism. Being religious doesn’t automatically equate to believing in a (or many) god/s. The same thing _can_ go for Judaism as well.
Personally I have a complex relationship with the idea of a god. The best way to describe it is it’s kinda like Schrödinger’s god for me. But I don’t wear a kippah (head covering) because of a possible higher power, I wear one because it just feels like the right thing to do for me.
And like you said, there’s the whole cultural and ethnic component as well. When someone converts, they also become culturally and ethnically Jewish, on top of their pre-existing ethnicity. It’s not just a religion and when you convert you’re getting all of it, no matter what. It’s an ethnoreligion for a reason. You can’t fully separate the religion from the ethnicity or vice versa. Coverts can choose to be only culturally Jewish too, although it would probably make it harder to convert depending on how liberal/conservative a movement you’re converting into (liberal and conservative have nothing to do with politics here btw). After someone converts, they’re not (or at least not supposed to be) considered any different than someone who was born into the religion. So they have just as much of a right to only participate culturally if they choose. (Although it’s definitely not common. Most converts I’ve met are some of the most observant people I know, and certainly more knowledgeable about Judaism than I am too)
But ultimately like I said at the beginning, everyone’s relationship with god is different. For a lot of Jews God IS absolutely central to their faith, and that’s just as valid as someone like me who’s religious observance doesn’t hinge on belief at all. I’m not Norma Jeane, so I don’t know the intricacies of her beliefs and faith, what her exact views were and why she chose to label herself the way she did, but I fully imagine they’re just as complex as any other persons.
I am going through and approving comments rn if you comment a link it will go into my held for review folder and I will approve it.
educational and insightful resources are always welcome
Thank you so much for your very beautiful and through response! Maybe you got from my username but I’m Middle Eastern descend and an ex-Muslim so there’s so much misinformation regarding Judaism I need to work on. I’ll be checking on My Jewish Learning as well as reading more about orthodoxy vs orthopraxicy as that sounds fascinating. Thanks again and have a good day/week/month/year ☺️
I cannot describe how well-structured, well-researched, and well-written this video is, and I applaud you, Chelsea, for it. But more than that, you showed so much grace, respect, compassion, and understanding to your interviewees and about the high-control groups in general. I cannot commend you enough for reaching out to the survivors and allowing them a safe space to share their stories, and I want to thank you for all the work you (and Ethan!) put into creating such an expositive, informative, sensitive, and mindful video
You got an interview with Michael? Well done, Chelsea. Well done.
Just an aside, I've seen late-stage syphilis once as a nurse of 12 years, it was in an unfortunate homeless gentleman. Pretty sad case.
Wow, so that poor man basically got treated like certain of Ruby Franke’s kids. How awful!
Then you have Jordan and Mackay and I love them, they speak about their lived experience and the healing they’ve had to go to, and Jordan now being qualified in giving HEALTHY counselling.
This video, the deep diving into backgrounds and all the who, how, what, why of ‘girl defined’.
Btw one of Ruby Franke’s sisters did a video on ‘blanket training’ on her family channel. It was quite hard to watch!
So 👏👏👏 for this video. It was non biased and non judgemental.
I will be watching this again!!!
For those who don't know: blanket abuse (not "training") involves placing a child as young as an infant on a blanket. The abuser takes a toy and tries to lure the infant off the blanket. When the infant is distracted by the toy and crawls off the blanket, the abuser hits the infant with a heavy object like a wooden spoon over and over again, until the abuse teaches the infant to sit passively on the blanket to avoid abuse. This abuse is the kind of "parenting" that the religious right wants to put beyond the law, calling THEIR child abuse "freedom of religion."
I remembered that one of the family vloggers had boasted about that blanket training (I was outraged then, and it only gets worse now), but I couldn't remember which one it was. Seems like that whole family uses the same book as a guide to parenting.
I see the blanket training thing often mentioned on subreddits and mentioned by yters that cover 8 passengers. I think it's important to add that what Bonnie described is not the same as blanket training in the way that we know the fundies to have done it (as far as I can tell 'blanket training' includes hitting your kid when they get off the blanket; 'blanket time', the babywise method, is not the same thing).
Facts.
@@hawkeyescoffee6399 I’m pretty sure it was the one called Bonnie.
I’ve never directly watched any of them but another creator featured the video, and she seems to have been similar in her child training.
These women come from parents that were very ‘spare the rod’ themselves, but the blanket training video was truly uncomfortable. The baby was just lying there but the daughter was not too far away, but turned part away from the baby, completely silent….and this wasn’t a ‘punishment’ it was training, as if kids were puppies, and from the slightly older child you just knew she had done this many, many times.
I’ve yet to come up with a good reason for putting your baby on a blanket and completely ignoring them at a developmental stage when rolling over is something you want them to start learning while safely on the floor.
How horrible to read how this poor man was abused by his family. Absolutely heartbreaking
Perfect timing! I’ve been in labour for 24hrs so far and have slept 2 hours in 2 days. I was running out of videos to watch! Thank you 💖
Congratulations ✨🫶🏼 may your delivery be perfect!!🫶🏼
Omfg ASHLEIGH!!!! How dilated are we???
Congrats on the little one 💕 wishing you a good recovery
Congratulations! May the rest of your labor go incredibly smoothly and your baby is healthy, happy and beautiful!
Congratulations!! Hope it all went well!🩵
Being in a high control group during my young years really messed me up. I’m so glad you did this video and thank you. I felt so alone but now I know where to look for people that understand.
These deep dives are definitely your thing. You are so good at what you do and as always, super proud of you.
Thank you so much 🤗
I had no idea about their brother, like much of this story but thank you for bringing further awareness to his story & a vastly different perspective coming from another sibling. So sad & I can’t IMAGINE how difficult/tricky it is to continue hearing your siblings preach versions of the teachings that hurt you so badly. Sending him the best wishes & strength on his healing journey. 💜
Idk how I haven’t heard what Michael wrote on Reddit until now 😣😣 I’m sick to my stomach for the boy that happened to and the adult that has to deal with that trauma
Hi Cc I dm’ed you the other day. I’m a work from home stay at home mom and I have a hard time finding other UA-camrs that speak so openly about how hard it is to run a channel and be a primary caregiver. Your openness has encouraged me to try and speak to my audience about it too… anyways congratulations on this video. The 3 interviews were amazing ! I hope we see more of this. You are a badass 👏🏽 also thank you Tony for being a supportive husband and sharing your wonderful intelligent gift of a wife with us ❤
Grew up in a small school/church and didn’t realize until I was in my thirties that I had religious trauma. Girl Defined and purity culture/fundie culture does SO MUCH harm.
“Let’s get two things straight and one thing gay” 😂😂😂 Imma need to start using this ASAP.
The interviews! The Jordan & McKay cross over! Chelsea, this is such a great deep dive that absolutely stands out from the other commentary videos on the girl defined universe. Scammers work hard, but you & Ethan work harder!!! 💐
You did a brilliant job interviewing and Michael offered a wonderful perspective. Brought me to tears, I’m young and early in my healing journey but related so very much to his reflections on the abuse he experienced. Going no-contact saved my life and showed me a brand new world. Recovering from traumatic experiences is not easy but safety, stability, and peace are possible!!
1. A family can absolutely be a cult! I saw it.
2. When watching Shiny Happy People, I decided that Bill Gothard is Michael Scott’s evil twin 😅
I grew up LDS and hearing about the poor wife that got the really bad UTI is very similar to how i didnt know what a female orgasm was until i was 19🤦🏽♀️ people need to stop using religion to justify stunting their kids’ educations
Okay, the blanket training information is incredibly upsetting. Putting your baby on a blanket and surrounding them with toys that they want, to encourage them to go for them is literally what any pediatrician worth their salt will tell you to do to help your child with their motor function and extension and vision and NORMAL GROWTH FFS! 🤬🤬🤬🤬
Any kind of expert in children's development.
I'm not even an expert, but I know that children need stimulation to develop correctly.
Hospitalization and deprivation can lead to many disabilities. Emotional and intellectual to even physical.
I'm not joking, that's my actual area of work.
It's awful
It is upsetting. I did not grow up in ATI but did go to one of their training centers as a young adult. I remember talking to a father who worked there. He shared with me how he first spanked his then toddler, when she was still an infant. He used a pencil. He thought his infant was crying to be manipulative. It shocked me then. I still feel heartbroken for that kiddo.
I first heard about blanket training when watching a video about cults and Mormonism while holding my firstborn child who was about 7 months old at the time... likely partially hormones still going crazy but I burst into tears. Thinking of hitting my baby because I'VE put him in a situation where he's surrounded by things he wants and he goes to get those things was just horrifying and unimaginable. I can't imagine the confusion and distrust a baby would experience and develop being blanket trained.
@@belletynan4914It’s truly and utterly horrifying, heartbreaking, and infuriating. I’m not a mother to human kiddos, but I adore my furbabies and the sweet children for whom I helped care in my family (younger brother, cousins, second cousins, friends). I just cannot ever imagine striking a child, but especially an infant. They don’t know what’s going on and it’s so cruel, psychologically, emotionally, and physically. It hurts my heart to imagine that happening to any children, but this is worse because it’s certainly happened to *most* of the children in these cults.
the girl defined sisters being part of "a cult within a cult" explains so much honestly
Wake up Babe… Chelsea’s done it again.
Thanks for covering this topic! I've been following you for about 2 years now in hopes to aid in my journey to deprogram myself after growing up in the IBLP cult. For some reason hearing about MLM groups and manipulation has helped my deconstruction process. I guess it's more helpful to look at an unrelated situation and see the glaringly obvious signs of control and manipulation and then see the correlations between MLM groups and religious cults such as IBLP.
It's been a freaking hard process but you have been a really helpful resource for me in this journey. ❤
Can confirm the purity culture can be dangerous. My best friend rushed into marriage because the temptation was too strong. For me my mom was very much wait till marriage and all that. My views on sex have been so skewed in comparison to my sister. It was very shameful in my house but when my sister grew up it was an open happy conversation. This is something I still struggle with 10 years later. Therapy helps so much!
Chelsea, as an exmo I am so so happy to see Jordan and Mckay featured on your channel. This is the exact crossover I needed!
This is so well done. I am a clinical mental health counseling major in a masters program and I have to say, your listening skills are on point and the level of respect and empathy for these individuals that you had is just incredible. So proud of how far you’ve come!
I've seen a ton of videos about girl defined but none that talk much about Michael so I'm really glad his story is getting out there. Phenomenal video Chelsea! 🍄
The head-nodding during the “women are more depressed than ever before” scene is sending me 😂
That "commercial" is really.... something.
How DARE they co-opt Marilyn for their shitty message. So pleased to hear Chelsea stick up for her!
I’ve been watching Jordan and McKay since they first started UA-cam, I loved that you interviewed them and got their view on this!
Girl I’m so proud of you! This is incredible!!!!!!! You’re killing it bestie!
So are you Isabella, Your channel has grown and I'm really enjoying your content.
35 now, I was forced to go to a fundamentalist baptist school and church that had the same fundamental “values”. A lot of trauma got to the point that I ran away from it all at 17. I felt like my end was coming unless I did something that drastic. Everything I had been through still hurts me by surprise. I had always rebelled mentally to it all from such a young age, but somehow I didn’t even figure out it was a fundie version of Christianity until last year! It feels crazy sometimes just putting all the pieces together. I was calling it “I think it’s a cult” into finding out “I was in a cult!”
Thank you to everyone bringing attention and information about so many groups/cults.
YESSSSS
I grew up in the cult of the Church of Christ. The overwhelming similarities are staggering. Then my mom joined the Pentecostal Charismatics… nothing but sexism, shady wealth
Yes! I went to a southern Baptist church in Texas and even I was shocked when I visited a Pentecostal church with a friend from school 😳 Like they’re super extreme but I don’t feel like we hear a lot about them.
My grandmother was in that church. I don't know if she still goes. She's married to a Mormon guy (my grandpa and her 2nd husband both died). My mom doesn't talk about that church and we never attended it as kids.
I also knew someone my age that suffered trauma at the hands of that church, specifically one of the clergy members.
I was Oneness Pentecostal, charasmatic. I feel like you'll see " this is a cult" videos in about 5 years from now. Right now there are no supportive people to help you through it. I know, I made videos and winded up deleting most because people attacked me for calling it a cult.
And there are mixed emotions, I enjoyed my wild "Little House on the Prairie" raising. I was not allowed to have so much (TV, movies, videogames, books with magic/too much romance/sex, Bratz/Pokemon and other specific toys, draw anime, read manga, celebrate Halloween, have a Christmas tree, listen to "secular" music, listen to Christian music where the members looked "too worldly", listen to Christian rock or rap, swim in front of men, eat when we were fasting despite being 6yo, sports, plays, et. cet.) but I also learned so many skills in a very Montesorri kind of way. I could draw/paint, cook, sew outfits, crochet, write short novels, program websites despite not being allowed to have Internet, et. cet. And I got around the "no magic" rule by reading sci-fi which I adored. I had fun as a child, and homeschooling on a huge plot of land felt very free and adventurous.
But as I turned into a teenager the expectations got very demanding and contradictory. They told me I couldn't be alone with a boy or date, but I was still supposed to somehow get married. And get a man to be attracted to me while dressing like I lived in the 1800s. Then I was called a failure BECAUSE I followed the rules. I was the most devout member, I believed it was the best way to live until I was about 22 and started to realize how contradictory their expectations of women were.
Just wait a few years, and Pentecostalism will be the new Mormonism when we aren't so afraid to talk about it.
again you gotta collab with fundie fridays. This is so up her lane. I'm also at the beginning of the vid and so excited to watch it. I've been waiting
Amazing video, as usual. Thank you for continuing to make this type of content! For the first 10 years of my life, my family belonged to what I consider a Christian cult. Fortunately, my parents realized what an unhealthy, controlling group it was and we left. Personally, my 10 year old self knew something was off when the pastor tried telling my parents that I shouldn’t have Cabbage Patch dolls because I was inviting the devil into my life?!?! 🤯 🍄
💕bonus points for the Trixie cameo!💕
The willful ignorance!
Kristen: "..we know there are sooo many definitions of 'feminism'..."
Um.. No. There's only one. Equal rights & opportunities. That's it.
Your work is getting more nuanced and effective, Chelsea. This was incredibly powerful, and I'm so proud to have been around for your evolution! 🍄
Came from Jordan and McKay. Awesome video thank you for all the time and effort you put into it! 🍄 ❤
23:16 (Bill Gothard photo) Oh how I love the Pride Flag fluttering in the breeze. Nicely captured, Videographer.
Over and over as you discussed these people, Bailey Sarian screamed in my brain, "Get better idols."
Chelsea, it's amazing how you kept everything linear in this jumble of knotted thread. I had to follow along with the transcript. Can you list the books you recommended? (I did pause at 32:45 to buy "Scarred.")
Same.♥️
🍄 amazing job! Even my ADHD couldn’t stop me from watching until the end. The puppy snoring was adorable 🥰
I greatly appreciate your disclaimer of being forced to comply. My family is from the Sudetenland but were dissidents, my great grandfather observed a Hitler rally and came home telling my great grandmother he was a nut job. He was arrested for feeding Jewish children bread. We have a photo before my grandma was born where the older siblings were in the Hitler youth attire because all students were forced to
OMG I can’t believe they used ATI for their homeschool program- yikes!!!! It’s giving Duggar’s in the WORST way. Those teachings are SO dangerous. 🤦🏽♀️🤯
48:29 Oh my goodness this sounds just like Ruby Franke!! Makes sense considering that they read the same “parenting” books
Thank you for sharing your conversation with Michael.
I just love how Kristen and Bethany are blaming women's displeasure in finding love on them being ungodly and not how toxic masculinity has gotten. Clearly its not the incels and red pillers that are making it harder for women to find suitable partners.
Idk man. I’ve never even met one of these guys irl. I’m a retired sex worker and I’ve never been shamed for it by a guy literally ever, I work in a male dominated field and I’ve only ever heard one dude say women shouldn’t work in it (irl), and so on. most incels probably aren’t out there talking to a bunch of women messing up the dating market, they’re mostly hikkikomori, right?
@@SpecialBlanket while I agree sex work is in fact a legit profession, saying you've never encountered a toxic male of the fundamentalist type is like a sushi chef saying they've never served a vegan, that's not the type of client one would expect to see requesting your services
I'm loving these deep dives! They actually make me put down my phone/dogs/the load of laundry slowly dying a wrinkled death, and just focus on the video. As an ADHD'er, I can't say that for many things 😂
This was so good and honestly I think I need to watch it again. The part about the kids is really hard for me so I hope children born into these cults find their way out and can heal ❤️
At first I was wondering how you watched a two hour video when it only says it came out eight minutes ago, but then I saw that you’re a member, right? Maybe I need to become a member hahah
This was such an informational video and I just really appreciate the way you let the speakers really speak and share their input and you never control or take over the conversation! Been a long time viewer and your videos are literally my favorite thing ever.
My daughter Paige had Trisomy 18 in 2013. We had her for 2 weeks . It sucks.
@@transsnack thank you. 💖
CC, I have so much respect for the amount of work and thought you put into your video essays. you bring a much-needed level of sobriety and logical thought to these discussions. keep doing what you're doing, girl!
I haven’t finished, but you have grown so much a creator and educator. I hope you are proud of yourself, Chelsea! ❤
I've never watched any of your content before but I find your voice so articulate and precise and soothing. I listen to background vods all day due to tinnitus and hearing issues; I just wanted you to know how much your voice eases my stress and tension.
I love seeing some of my favorite creators working together to bring light to this topic! So glad you were able to have Jordan and McKay on your channel!
This reminds me so much what Ruby did! It's the same vibe. Perfect family blogs and social media, very Christian and traditional, but in the inside so strict and violent l, so much control and punishment.
This is so so bad!! So much kids without the chance of speaking about the abuse and have a safe space
Thanks for you investigation and work
The way I RAN to this video. SO excited. Thank you for this feature-length masterpiece, CC! 🙌🏽
CC, this is your best work yet! The interviews were fantastic and I'm so happy Michael was able to use this platform to share his story.
Great interviews you scored! Says a lot about your reputation in this space. I'm not always a fan of interviews in a deep dive but these were the perfect guests and brought a lot of extra interest to the video.
The child upbringing is giving so many parallels to 8 passengers
The “they took away my room for months”. Yep.
I grew up in independent Baptist church, couldn't get away fast enough once old enough. Literally couldn't wear sweatpants in a snow storm. Couldn't listen to music unless it aas generated from our church, so the list was small small small!
Don't know much about girl defined but here to let you tell ne.
Hey I’m glad that you were able to get out of that. So much shame and patriarchal bs. ❤❤ Wear them sweatpants with pride whenever you wanna!
great vid! i’m a jordan and mckay subscriber so i assumed that i got recommended the vid bc of that, but i was so pleasantly surprised to see them as i didn’t know and just clicked out of interest! thank you for your hard work and research!
It' soooo insane to me that they are proud of their *german* roots... I'm german myself and do have ancestors, that were involved in the nsdap but we are definitly not proud of that. In fact, we are ashamed. It makes me sick to think how my ancestors lived a better life than other people because they agreed and even participated in the general mindset. It's revolting and nothing to be proud about. You would get so many dirty looks in germany if you posted pics like that to instagram...
Agreed. My grandparents were German immigrants who came to Ellis island following WW2. It’s a shameful history and I make it a point to be everything that ideology isn’t. Always call out fascism.
@@transsnack exactly! We visited concentration camps in school to really grasp how horrible it was during this time... my great grandma was a teen in nazi germany and told me so many stories, it was just a horrible, horrible time... I just can't get it how you can be proud of that
This is such a fascinating (and tragic, in a way) video. I was really looking for a deep dive into the Bairds. Also I CRACKED UP when you started talking about Eve, naked in the garden, stacked, wearing leaf-shaped pasties. Great job.