Water Heaters: Simultaneous or Separate Heating Elements?

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 6 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 109

  • @AnonYmous-yi4zy
    @AnonYmous-yi4zy Рік тому +7

    Love the drawing board! Really helps illustrate what you're talking about.

  • @berthongo8531
    @berthongo8531 Рік тому +3

    One of the items we had to look at when performing pump rotation checks was the 480 v lube oil tank heater. I'd always tell the new guys that we could tell if it was wired incorrectly if the lube oil got colder instead of hotter. That was so much fun.

  • @davidmurn772
    @davidmurn772 Рік тому +1

    Funnily enough, the day after watching this video my twin element hot water system gave up the ghost after tripping out over the last week or two. After prodding around with my tick tester, I finally gave up on it and bought my first Klein tool (only based on your recommendation of the brand), the simple ET40 voltage tester. With a couple of minutes of prodding with the Klein tester, a faulty thermostat was diagnosed. The Klein paid for itself almost in its first use.

  • @Scotts_Status
    @Scotts_Status Рік тому +2

    You need to change the title of this channel to Einstein electric university because it seems like you you have to have a masters degree in electrical engineering to do the things you do! Absolutely love all your videos!

  • @mikerannazzisi821
    @mikerannazzisi821 Рік тому

    Very clear and informative. Where someone might get confused, is that you should probably draw line in the tank where it switches between both elements. It’s a much smaller tank on the top so the water heats up quicker. then it transfers over to the bottom tank which is bigger. I know you know all of this. But I think someone who doesn’t know what they’re looking at is going to get confused. You should just does every draw the line to show the quick recovery tank .

  • @TheWickerShireProject
    @TheWickerShireProject Місяць тому

    Love the triad set up. Feels very efficient when dealing with higher wattage devices.

  • @thechamp34king48
    @thechamp34king48 Рік тому +1

    Greatly explained in a very detailed manner bro, keep rolling!

  • @jamesortolano3983
    @jamesortolano3983 Рік тому

    Love this content ,as an HVAC-R installer. This did show quite a bit.
    That board you use to illustrate was definitely worth the money.

  • @Sparky-ww5re
    @Sparky-ww5re Рік тому +5

    Wow. Never realized there was a thing as a three phase element. I thought a three phase water heater had 3 elements top, middle and bottom and connected to A-B, A-C & B-C. Never heard of duel volt elements either but it makes sense of connecting them in parallel for the lower voltage and in series for the higher voltage.

  • @richsparkman9980
    @richsparkman9980 Рік тому

    Now I know why I am not an electrician this is way over my head good presentation

  • @garbo8962
    @garbo8962 Рік тому +1

    In my area just about everyone has nature gas water heaters so only wired a few in and troubleshoot them. A fiend had super hard water that caused one of the elements to burn out every year. We have a large rich pharmaceutical plant nearby that installed an electric boiler during one of the energy shortages. Ran off 4,160 Volt three phase. Cost a fortune to run so they only turned it on once a year for halve a day during a weekend.

  • @ai4px
    @ai4px Рік тому +3

    Something to consider.... if the heater is in the garage, it's usually a 30amp circuit. If you swap the bottom T-stat with the kind used on the top where it transfers current to another t-stat, you can feed an EV car charger off the 2nd thermostat. So after your water heater is satisfied, it can then charge your car at up to 24amps.

    • @ewicky
      @ewicky Рік тому +1

      clever trick!

    • @garbo8962
      @garbo8962 Рік тому +2

      Would have no problem doing that genius trick in my own house but with so many sue happy lawyers and liability issues including not listed would not offer it to any customers.

    • @Sparky-ww5re
      @Sparky-ww5re Рік тому

      Very clever idea!! While on the subject of EV chargers and water heaters, specifically cord and plug connected. It seems that at one time, a cord and plug connection was allowed for a water heater, we found that while helping Dad remodel his 1973 ranch home. Panel was located in a bedroom closet, water heater was in the laundry/utility area on the opposite end of the home and connected via a nema 6-30 receptacle, as a means of disconnect. This is obviously no longer permitted, but you could use a nema 6-30 for a EV charger and water heater, and simply decide which to connect, if say there's limited space in the panel to add a new 240V circuit for an EV charger. I do not recommend this and am not responsible for any damages from following this suggestion.

    • @ai4px
      @ai4px Рік тому

      @@Sparky-ww5re I gotta say that those plugs are not intended for daily plug cycles. The J1772 plug however is. If you are going to plug a portable EVSE in, please leave it there and don't unplug it every day. Now if you want to use the thermostat trick I mentioned above and put a 6-30 receptacle on that, ok then.

    • @ai4px
      @ai4px Рік тому

      @@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket Good point. Most cars charge at a max of 32amps. Exceptions are teslas and the new electric pickups. However, most cars can charge quite satisfactorily at 240v 12 or 16 amps. The rule of thumb is XX amps at 240v equals XX miles per hour charging. So 12amps gives 12 miles per hour. If the car is parked for 8 hours, that's 96 miles by morning. So your future proof 50amp outlet is quite correct, but a 24amp charger will cover an awful lot of people's cases. Most people drive 30 miles a day.

  • @Sparky-ww5re
    @Sparky-ww5re Рік тому +2

    A dual voltage element connected to the higher voltage is Kirchhoff’s Voltage Law in action. Some electric kilns, for example, have multiple elements and selector switches to control the firing rate, and depending on the settings, might use 2 elements in parallel, 2 elements in series, or something like that. If you were in an environment where say only 240 volts or 277 volts was available for some reason, you could for example, rig up two 120V 500 watt halogen worklights in series. The 277 volt system will make the lights brighter and not last as long, as you would have 138.5 volts supplied to each bulb, 130 volt bulbs be better in this example.

  • @drich1s
    @drich1s Рік тому

    You should do a video about any experience you have with customers not trying to pay, and or how you go about protecting yourself from scandalous customers And what avenues to take if ever dealing with non paying customers.

  • @MarioSanchez-gd7ek
    @MarioSanchez-gd7ek Рік тому +2

    Awesome video! Listen, I would really appreciate it if you could do like a financial aspect to what’s it’s like owning a company. Like bid pricing, material cost, how much time you have to finish the job and when you start to lose money in a job site. Thanks!

  • @thedillpickle100
    @thedillpickle100 Рік тому +3

    Or... There is a set of interlocking contactors switching the heater elements similar to a home hot water heater. The contactors would be in a box close by with fuses or breakers. Control wires, possibly 120v would go from the energizing coil(s) to a control panel with temp controllers and displays where an operation can monitor the temps, etc.

  • @ai4px
    @ai4px Рік тому +1

    I am off grid solar and have a heat pump water heater. But it's backup heat source is the conventional 4500 w elements. Since 4500w would eat up 1/2 of my inverter power, I swapped them for 1500w elements. Takes longer to heat the water but it doesn't make me use interlocks of power management. Also the heat pump water heater pulls 360w when running in heat pump mode. So when the heat pump is functioning, I really don't even know the hot water heat pump is running.

    • @markpetri3405
      @markpetri3405 Рік тому

      How long have you had your heat pump water heater? How do you like it? It sounds like it is a great choice for energy conservation.

    • @ai4px
      @ai4px Рік тому +2

      @@markpetri3405 about six months. It’s in the basement. Serves double duty as a dehumidifier too. No issues. It just works.

  • @stevelopez372
    @stevelopez372 Рік тому

    Good stuff. Living in SoCal. These issues will be important now that Commiefornia is pushing hard to go 100% electrification. Yes new homes this year will likely not be plumbed for natural gas. They are also going after existing housing stock. Don’t ask silly questions about the power grid handling all this usage. Lol. By the way California will be a Boom for electricians. At this point they are busier than other trades.

  • @mathman0101
    @mathman0101 Рік тому

    Nice one Dustin the visuals really work well.

  • @RyanGriffithLLC
    @RyanGriffithLLC Рік тому

    Thanks for making these videos

  • @brianmcdermott1718
    @brianmcdermott1718 Рік тому

    Great info. Justin Thank you.

  • @SamMcWhannel
    @SamMcWhannel Рік тому +1

    You'll often find a lot of 600v electric water heaters here in Canada in large commercial buildings.

  • @tomdix5167
    @tomdix5167 Рік тому +3

    Almost makes me re-think my career decisions, one of the problems with a parochial-college prep HS education. Hope none of my electrician buddies see this.

  • @josephnicolas2158
    @josephnicolas2158 Рік тому

    Another amazing video! Thank you kindly for all you do! 🥰

  • @chapelhill1034
    @chapelhill1034 Місяць тому

    I like your video I gave just enough information. I was wondering if you were trying to find an easier way to make it to be followed. Can you use numbers? I like to label things with wire numbers to keep it straight and also to make it easier for the person coming behind me
    I’m curious about the picture submitted what are the terminals without wire for?

  • @johnstancliff7328
    @johnstancliff7328 Рік тому

    LOL! what a great teacher! you're great!

  • @Tagerrun
    @Tagerrun Рік тому +1

    The steam generators I used to work on would use 2 480 heating elements with a contractor controlling them.

  • @aldrehenry233
    @aldrehenry233 Рік тому

    Hey Dustin,
    Could you do a short video on how to wire a 2x2' lighting fixture with a LED emergency drive. Like which wire goes exactly where.
    Thanks

  • @gage5899
    @gage5899 Рік тому +2

    I work at a car wash and we have a huge 480 volt water heater

  • @matthewshipsky977
    @matthewshipsky977 Рік тому

    Can you do a video on grounding a multi family house. Example: 3 gang meter base feeding 3) 100amp panels, seperate ground rods or largerconductor and split bolt/daisy chain ect

  • @rogerpenske2411
    @rogerpenske2411 Рік тому +5

    My first house had electric hot water heater. At one time it actually had two different electric meters: one for the house, and one specifically dedicated to the water heater. Communist Edison then changed their billing such that a certain number of kilowatt hours were at a reduced rate, and everything went through 1 m. Electric hot water heater is extremely expensive, And the minerals in your water will destroy those heaters very very quickly. They must be flushed on at least a monthly basis.

    • @tedlahm5740
      @tedlahm5740 Рік тому +1

      Reduced rate for electric water heaters was done away with DEREGULATION of the industry. All on one meter now?

    • @Texas_krazy
      @Texas_krazy Рік тому +2

      It's a water heater, it doesn't heat hot water. I'm sorry bud, I hate correcting people, but on this topic I feel that I must.

    • @jeremynguyen2346
      @jeremynguyen2346 Рік тому

      @@Texas_krazy sport for asking questions on discord

    • @jeremynguyen2346
      @jeremynguyen2346 Рік тому

      @@Texas_krazy sorry for questions on discord

    • @rogerpenske2411
      @rogerpenske2411 Рік тому +2

      @@Texas_krazy Of all people, Tex, You should know that a hot water heater does indeed heat hot water. I live in Phoenix, and for about five months of the year, my hot water heater heat hot water!

  • @onlineconsumer4796
    @onlineconsumer4796 Рік тому +2

    What happens if you take a 220v single phase water heater (4500 watts element) and hook it up to 110v? Does it just take twice as long or longer to heat? Does the wattage go up, stay the same, or go down?

    • @icanreadthebible7561
      @icanreadthebible7561 Рік тому

      P = IE
      Half the voltage results in half the wattage, and thus, twice as long to heat up.

    • @skroz1
      @skroz1 Рік тому +2

      Power (W) is equal to V^2 / R, so by halving the voltage on the same element you will reduce the power output by a factor of 4. Likewise, doubling the voltage will quadruple the power. So a 10 ohm element will deliver 1,440 watts of heating at 120V, 5760 watts at 240V, and 23,040 watts at 480V. The surface area of the heating element becomes an important factor at this point, as you risk damaging the element if the watt density rises above what the material is rated to handle.

    • @ivandiaz5791
      @ivandiaz5791 Рік тому +1

      @@icanreadthebible7561 Wrong. Current will not be the same. The other commenter is correct with his calculation.

    • @skroz1
      @skroz1 Рік тому +1

      @@ivandiaz5791 Indeed, current scales linearly with voltage in a resistive load. We can use Ohm's law directly (I=V/R) or divide the watts by volts. In the10 ohm example above, the same element draws 12 A @ 120 V, 24 A @ 240 V, and 48 A @ 480 V.
      Answering the OP's question directly, powering an element intended for 220 V at 110 V will increase the heating time by _at least_ a factor of four. In an ideal case it would be 4x, but in the real world you have to account for heat loss from the vessel to the environment. You might never be able to reach your target temperature if the rate of energy you're adding (watts) is less than the rate of loss to the environment. Down that road lies the dragon "differential equations", though, so "at least 4x" is good enough. :)

    • @BaliFoodTreePlanter
      @BaliFoodTreePlanter Рік тому

      ​@@skroz1 hi...want to hear more about damage

  • @mesh1248
    @mesh1248 Рік тому

    Can u go over how to diagnose a problem with the different types of water heaters u described in the video

  • @pleappleappleap
    @pleappleappleap 11 місяців тому

    If we take as given that there is enough headroom in the main breaker, and we are able to easily run a second 240V circuit to the water heater, is there any downside to converting your sequential water heater to a simultaneous one?

  • @sparkythebuilder
    @sparkythebuilder Рік тому

    Thank you for not calling it a "hot water heater". 👍

  • @brandonguerra6968
    @brandonguerra6968 Рік тому

    Could you do a video on trouble shooting / fault finding using the multimeter on electrical circuits and motors etc.

    • @BowensBlvd
      @BowensBlvd Рік тому

      Ground faults on a 3 phase system is something I wish i had to do less in industrial facility's

  • @BigGuy8059
    @BigGuy8059 Рік тому

    Great idea: A heat pump toaster. More efficient than your old-fashioned toaster.

    • @rayives7758
      @rayives7758 Рік тому

      What heat pump is going to produce the temperature needed to toast anything without destroying the refrigerant? Remember that a heat pump is just a refrigerator in reverse.

  • @pj8964
    @pj8964 Рік тому

    Great video thanks 👷‍♂👍

  • @seanobrien499
    @seanobrien499 Рік тому

    Great video/content! I have a rental property and new tenant needs an 80 gallon H20 tank. Only one I can find is light duty commercial Rheem dual element that ships as a simultaneous element wiring 4500/4500. The spec sheet says it can be field converted to non simultaneous via the terminal block L1 & L2 single phase. I only have 30 amp dual pole 240. Have any experience with these types of commercial units that are field convertible? thanks in advance sorry so long!

  • @ItsDubstep57
    @ItsDubstep57 Рік тому

    Hey Dustin, do you mind talking about troubleshooting . I’m experiencing a loss of power to a specific bedroom on a house and the breaker is tripped, there’s many reasons as we all know what would cause it to trip but wanted to see if you could make a video on troubleshooting residential breakers and circuits

    • @ianbutler1983
      @ianbutler1983 Рік тому +1

      I would put a clamp-on ammeter on a conductor and reset the breaker while I watched it. You can this was determine if there is a short circuit or if the breaker is defective. If the current draw does not exceed the breaker rating, the breaker is bad. If it exceeds the rating of the breaker, there is a short or low resistance faulting the circuit.

  • @BaliFoodTreePlanter
    @BaliFoodTreePlanter Рік тому

    Where did you find your white board??? How much does it cost? What brandname?

  • @howardbleier3881
    @howardbleier3881 Рік тому

    The person that sent that picture is not working on a regular water heater. That is a small Dri-steem humidifier. It's a low pressure steam generator.

  • @thomaswhite3829
    @thomaswhite3829 Рік тому

    Does an electric hot water heat water as well as a natural gas one?

  • @charleshill7184
    @charleshill7184 11 місяців тому

    My $0.02 -- the "simultaneous" diagram describes how a tankless or "insta-hot" water heater works. Endless hot water in exchange for $$$.

  • @1jamaicanbosstv96
    @1jamaicanbosstv96 Рік тому +3

    First love this

  • @flirtnwthdisaster2619
    @flirtnwthdisaster2619 Рік тому

    How do I install a 2 pole 30 amp breaker in an 50Amp RV for a instant tankless hot water heater? Can I add a small sub panel and add the 2 pole breaker and each pole can be on a separate leg of the 50 amp system? I cannot find clear information about this so any help would be greatly appreciated. Also us there a difference between regular breakers and RV breakers?

    • @flirtnwthdisaster2619
      @flirtnwthdisaster2619 Рік тому

      @@jahmanborneo1343 I'm from west Phoenix.....buckeye actually but I currently live on the central Oregon coast. And I don't want to use propane I'm fine with the electric and I'm not worried about tripping a breaker because the 50 amp system has plenty of power to be able to run an ac as well as the hot water I just won't use both ACs while using the hot water heater and the heater o have is sealed up very nicely I am not worried about critters. And this water heater can pull power from separate legs from the electrical system so it won't be making a significant dent in power consumption. Not to mention. It won't be constantly running only while showering. I already have a water softener and filtration system as well as UV. This unit is only 5.5KW and as I said that will be separated between 2 legs so about 2700 watts per leg. A 50 amp system can handle 12kw... 6kw per leg so I'll be fine I'm sure. But I appreciate your advice still and I plan to be going back to Arizona within the next year so if you know a reputable place I'd definitely be interested. Thank you!

    • @mccarthymccarthy237
      @mccarthymccarthy237 Рік тому

      Rv are 120 1 leg ove power I believe don’t no newer one

    • @flirtnwthdisaster2619
      @flirtnwthdisaster2619 Рік тому

      @@mccarthymccarthy237 a 50 amp rv has 2 legs of 120V 50 Amps each

    • @flirtnwthdisaster2619
      @flirtnwthdisaster2619 Рік тому

      @@mccarthymccarthy237 RVs typically do NOT have 240v appliances or devices, so the two 'hot legs' are simply used as two different 120v lines, to two SEPARATE power buses - therefore 100amps of usable power is CERTAINLY and COMMONLY possible - many of us certainly do especially during the hot summer 'two air conditioners at the same time' months!

    • @flirtnwthdisaster2619
      @flirtnwthdisaster2619 Рік тому

      @@mccarthymccarthy237 If you were to fully load one leg to 50 amps to the neutral, so 120 VAC, with nothing on the other leg, and then exceeded it, the ganged 50 amp breaker would trip. If instead, you started adding load to the other "hot" leg to neutral at 120 VAC, you could add up to 50 amps on that leg as well (since we're talking 120 VAC). At that point the neutral would be carrying 0 amps.

  • @edsaye3402
    @edsaye3402 Рік тому

    Just thinking that maybe you could explain how three phase panels can be CCW or CW.

    • @rayives7758
      @rayives7758 Рік тому

      If you're talking about how reversing two leads will change motor direction it's simple. If you have a phase sequence of A-B-C-A-B (remember you're dealing with a circle) and you switch A and C you get C-B-A-C-B. If you switch A and B you get B-A-C-B-A. B and C gives A-C-B-A-C. Note that each of the reversals has a C-B-A in it, the reverse of the original A-B-C.

  • @rayives7758
    @rayives7758 Рік тому

    Actually, you can't tell from the photo whether it's simultaneous or alternate because you don't have the control portion. The element banks could be bridged in parallel off one contactor or controlled from two contactors.

  • @aubreyroche5080
    @aubreyroche5080 Рік тому

    The Day I learned how a water Heater worked changed my Electrical career..... (Air..ray)..chuckle...

  • @johnwalker890
    @johnwalker890 Рік тому +1

    Can i put my pop tart in the hot water heater to heat it up or use my furnace instead of the toaster?

  • @lureneconkey7519
    @lureneconkey7519 3 місяці тому

    I came here to find out if it is normal for a brand new water heater elements to operate everytime hot water is run 2 to 5 minutes?

  • @jolyonwelsh9834
    @jolyonwelsh9834 Рік тому

    There's a problem with the Y or star configuration. Unless the elements are also rated for 277 volts, you will be overdriving the heating elements and thus shortening their life.

  • @PortlandSparky
    @PortlandSparky Рік тому +1

    in this video you had 240v with 3phase. wouldnt this be 208v?

    • @Sparky-ww5re
      @Sparky-ww5re Рік тому

      208V 3 phase would be a wye configuration. 240V 3 phase would be a delta configuration. Just depends on how the transformers are configured

  • @Sembazuru
    @Sembazuru Рік тому +1

    I disagree with the answer you gave to the quiz. My answer would have been "you can't tell from that picture" because you don't see the other end of those two sets of 3-phase wiring. It looks to be industrial equipment, so I'll use industrial terms. Each of those sets of 3-phase wiring should be coming through contactors, one contactor for each 3-phase set. I haven't seen a dual ganged 3-phase contactor, but I don't see why that wouldn't exist, so in that case it would be simultaneous. If a single control wire is controlling both contactors it would be simultaneous (if it isn't obvious that the contactors are wired in parallel, look at the wire number labels if they haven't fallen off). If each contactor has it's own control wire then you still don't know. You then have to look at what is controlling the contactors to determine if it is set up to control in simultaneous or separate modes. IMHO, you are making too many assumptions on what you can't see.

    • @BowensBlvd
      @BowensBlvd Рік тому

      Agreed, just by seeing that it seemed like it was industrial or commercial setting. Up top could go to a switch gear and ect

    • @rayives7758
      @rayives7758 Рік тому

      @@BowensBlvd Definitely commercial. The only residential three-phase would be a large multi-unit and the individual units would be wired for single-phase anyway.

    • @rayives7758
      @rayives7758 Рік тому

      They could actually be driven off a single contactor. This is common is large industrial electric ovens where there are multiple three-phase banks in parallel.

  • @syitiger9072
    @syitiger9072 Рік тому

    Hay I’ve been seeing videos of diy where they tell a bunch of bad information for electrical work

  • @erich1380
    @erich1380 Рік тому

    most commercial buildings nowadays use tankless/instahot water heaters. elements are going the way of the dinosaur

  • @stephenbordieri
    @stephenbordieri Рік тому

    7:08 ... HVAC/Plumbers have to use their brains from there, I landed my 3 wires, good luck lol classic electrician.

  • @jamesldoherty
    @jamesldoherty Рік тому

    Water heaters draw the hot water from the bottom of the tank through an internal pipe not the top of the tank.

    • @rayives7758
      @rayives7758 Рік тому

      No. The dip tube brings cold water to the bottom. In a residential dual element heater the upper element heats the water that is then drawn off the top. If the water at the top is at the set temperature then the thermostat switches the current to the bottom element to preheat the incoming water When the temperature of the water at the top drops below the threshold the thermostat switches back to the upper element to bring the output water back to temperature.

  • @TJK50014
    @TJK50014 Рік тому

    always wondered how the element in the water, didn't break down and create a short in the water. Say toaster in bathtub.

  • @ericsiemek373
    @ericsiemek373 Рік тому

    Aren’t those feeders in the pipe the video is about a code violation

  • @erich1380
    @erich1380 Рік тому

    most commercial jobs ive done over the last few years dont use element water heaters anymore. its going the way of the dinosaur. insta hots are exponentially better

    • @hunterbrooks6207
      @hunterbrooks6207 Рік тому

      I assume you're talking about a gas tankless water heater

    • @erich1380
      @erich1380 Рік тому

      @@hunterbrooks6207 no. Electric

    • @erich1380
      @erich1380 Рік тому

      @@hunterbrooks6207 240 v just like the normal ones

    • @wannako81
      @wannako81 Рік тому

      They do use elements too but at a higher amperage rate. 9.5kw x3 elements.

  • @BaliFoodTreePlanter
    @BaliFoodTreePlanter Рік тому

    For better access to potential clients pin your website, etc. And answer our questions promptly on that pin.

  • @christopherperez6126
    @christopherperez6126 Рік тому

    This was a good video

  • @tedlahm5740
    @tedlahm5740 Рік тому

    Duplex Motors.,

  • @channingparker9431
    @channingparker9431 Рік тому

    So.. Who's your new master?
    Lol, no matter..

  • @richsparkman9980
    @richsparkman9980 Рік тому

    Now I know why I'm not

  • @rogerpenske2411
    @rogerpenske2411 Рік тому

    Electric water heater suck. I don’t care if you have to bring him barbecue bottles of natural gas to fire it up, but replace it with a gas water heater

  • @hulkangry5546
    @hulkangry5546 Рік тому

    I've installed many 480v water heaters. I didn't think it was that rare.