Here's what it takes to blow a stock NSX motor!
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- Опубліковано 18 гру 2023
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#VINwiki #acuransx #CarStories - Авто та транспорт
Thanks for having us back in the studio! There was a lot to unpack with this one between our inadvertent exploration of NSX reliability limitations, to rebuilding it twice. I wouldn't try to talk anyone out of tracking their 1st Gen NSX (heck, I'm going to keep doing it), but definitely consider some preventative measures if you plan to run sticky tires, aero, etc. Here's to the next 300k!
what caused the second engine failure? was it due to not cleaning the engine thoroughly enough after machining?
@@derekcraig3617 Unfortunately we really don't know the root cause of the second failure, at least not beyond doubt. We know there was damage to the oil pump gears that created undesirable clearances in that component. How the damage to the gears happened was not possible to discern. Speculation ranges from metallurgical issues (galling) to foreign debris being sucked into the pump. All of the machined parts were sonic cleaned etc. so it's unlikely left over from that.
That was the question uppermost in my mind too. Thanks for asking; and thanks for answering!
Love seeing you in the Knoxville area! Thanks for being so friendly at cars and coffee
@lightdot459 🙌
Lol "a little bit of of a major failure"
On a C32B is wild though
Sounds like my marriage... lol
@@titaniumoverdrive259this one was a C30A, but similar enough reliability wise
I didn't hear half of what he said. I was weirded out that he kept looking at the camera. 😳😵💫
Would not mind a table such as that myself. I like his attitude towards failure by making the best of it.
Must be nice to be able to keep throwing money at a problem till it goes away!
Would not mind if he'd stop looking at the friggin' camera. 🤣
must be nice to go into a situation able to not let it control your life.@@GOLD_FEVER
Was anyone else waiting for this dude to be like “yeah so we K swapped it” 😂
Almost literally every-other-comment on my videos talking about the failure and rebuild. We explored it, but didn't make sense this time. Honestly if I had to swap out the C series today, I'd probably go with a J swap. Keeps it V6, gains even more torque, and can be run on a factory ECU so no dickering around with tuning.
@@LapoftheWorld most people forget the J series even exists but it’s still a capable, reliable motor that can make good power 👌🏼
Ouch, I'm on my 3rd NSX it's also my 2nd supercharged car, I f...king so enjoy these cars, but 500,000 plus kms is damn impressive, Rj in Oz
Damn C32B is solid
A shame Honda ditched DOHC for SOHC in the j series
@@titaniumoverdrive259they brought it back for the new generation of pilots or passports or whatever the hell those things are
Would be nice to know what shop this was you took it to in the first place. I know I don't want to have my car worked on by somebody who doesn't stand behind the job they did . They should have warranty that
SOS would be my guess, BUT, that is STRICTLY a guess. They are the NSX genius', the best there is in the whole left side of America. If it is, I too can't believe they wouldn't take care of it. Of course no matter who did it, you would have to see what the warranty said.
Absolutely beautiful car. I love the NA NSX, and the engine was so interesting, both the C30 and C32 versions. One of the best sounding V6s i think too, tho the whole oversquare short stroke helps with that im sure. Great stuff! Glad you have it back on the road!
We have 3 local ones up here for sale right now. Love these cars.
You gotta really love cars to have a $10,000 bottom end to a second generation NSX just sitting in the original packaging over there in the parts bin
The individual in question has "a few" Hondas and associated parts on various shelves. In an alternate timeline this bottom end may have ended up in a legit racecar some decades ago.
@@vtec224 agreed! I have a nearly bone stock 2003 mustang GT five speed sitting in my garage. I love being able to take it out when the weather is nice and even when it’s raining a little bit. However, I don’t want it handing me a bill every time I take it out and bring it back home. that is the exact transactional relationship that takes place between one and their car when they get them to the level of the cars you just described.
chapeau to the mad man who put 200k on that thing, and another to this gangster putting another 100k on it. Good to see someone driving a car.
I tracked my 1st gen NSX quite a bit at Pahrump and saw a lot of sparklies in the oil. I think a baffled oil pan is the way to go. With track tires I could easily pull over 1 G on a skid pad.
I used to use mine at spring mountain motor sports park as well. Brooklands green 94’ with a supercharger
@@ryphi I knew one guy that had a brooklands green, you know Mark J?
@@ryphiI think I know where that car ended up
You could put three motors in that car and it would still be one of the best cars ever made. Those things are just amazing and nothing since then has had the awe power that you get with a first gen NSX. Thanks for the story
I am not sure i would send anything back to the same place that obviously did something wrong in the first place but that is just me. Pretty impressive that anything would last half a million kilometers in any situation let alone something that sees regular track use.
Could also be a combination of not changing the break in oil at the right milage, or simply not checking it at each fuel stop, fresh rebuilds usually have high oil consumption untill its fully worn in.
NSX still the best ever. And so beautiful.
Ed, turn up the gain on your audio. VINwiki's channel is so much more quiet than everybody else.
At that millage you don't half ass it. You do it properly or you save up and do it later. Anyone who had to fix a high mile engine knows that the old parts gel together but you put one new part and it will cause a cascade effect. All rubber parts wear period.
A little bit more torque never hurts.
4:21 it sounds like if you plan on roadcoursing it again you need to fit an accusump or a baffled oil pan like those who LS swap porsche's and roadcourse old chargers will attest to, as it'll squirt oil into the motor when it detects a loss of oil pressure, and maybe some valve cover breathers, a modification they do on old movie V8's so they can take the heat of a movie shoot and keep going
nevermind, got to 5:35 lol but stuff like this is why ferrari does dry sump, which is a pain when changing the oil, but it keeps everything in check
and offers lower center of gravity, and they had to do this on the miura for the same reason at the house of the raging bull, with most restomodded or restored cars getting the SV dry sump as standard across the range for all the cars getting restored at bob wallaces shop in longbeach
otherwise they can grenade if you push them hard enough, which is what your going to do with a miura, one of the few positives about the values going nuts, their getting modified so they can actually be driven without self destructing like they did
I'd love to ask Uehara san if that was discussed during the car's development. Was it a cost issue to hit their market position target? Was it an ease of maintenance question? Was it just deemed overkill given the tire tech at the time and/or the marketing dudes telling them that no one would modify one?
Tangential anecdote: The first question I asked Ted Klaus (project lead for the 2nd gen cars) was if they would be dry-sump (powertrain hadn't been announced), lol.
Just dry sump at that point.
That thing would of been k20 swapped quick lol
I’ve driven a K series NSX and a OEM NSX I prefer the OEM engine all day any day
Yup, if you guys went to Firebird (now some casino name to it since the reservation purchased it. They now closed it and tore it down to build a new hotel/casino. Sad, it was a staple to PHX car culture) to do the race event, the road course there is sharp right corners and sweeping.
I really want to drive one these someday. They look like they would be really fun. And I would hope a lot better then the Fiero I was messing with for a bit.
was the oil cooler replaced the first time?
I often get surprised how prevalent the myth of oil starvation can be. Oil starvation means air meaning lose ALL oil pressure.
Is hydraulic pressure head. When you feel G forces, your oil is getting that pressure too. So if your oil in the engine flows from left to right, the oil pump has to fight that pressure too. Path of least resistance. More oil will flow left side less will flow to right side in a right turn.
Is basic fluid dynamic.
Is the same thing that kills subie motors like the BRZ that people keep thinking is solved with oil pan baffles and accumulators. Issue is the long oil flow from left to right.
What caused the motor to let loose the 2nd time?
Where was the "yo!" when he told us V-tec had kicked in 😢
It's VTEC, not V-tec......yo! Smh
He's not raveling the Exact cause of the bottom failure. In My own experience I would choose a factory OIL PUMP over any "High Performance" brand in a heart beat. Higher oil pressure/flow in not needed for a Street performer.
Nice car! Boss let me drive one *once* and had to pull over when he saw me whip through the gears
Ha ha i just spotted NYST!!! Outstanding!
Wow, that had to be frustrating........
As a fellow Knoxville resident I didnt know we had car culture beyond cars and coffee
You've got the 'gap crowd, which is it's own microcosm, then you have a really VERY active autocross scene when it's in-season, and a fair number of track addicts sprinkled around here if you know where to look. See you around!
Keep it up you two! Certainly hope to see you again at the track. Stay safe and have fun.
I know of an og nsx in Collinsville Oklahoma
I miss my NSX....more than any ex-girlfriend that broke up with me. So sad that the prices on these are so beyond reach for me now :(
sadly his experience with getting an engine redone is one I hear all too often, regardless of make or model.
motor oil aint what it used to be thanks to all the green assholes out there.....taking all the ZDDP out of the oil was a BAD MOVE and they KNOW that
Just being clear. They took it apart and only replaced 1 rod bearing?
Oh no, full rebuild. block machined, new pistons, only re-used 4/6 rods (one was damaged from bearing issue, another wouldn't balance into tolerance), heads refreshed, everything re-sealed etc. Oil pump was a new unit off the shelf. Apologies for glossing over what went on there the first time.
In this case some Porsches also have failed from oil starvation when hitting high G's
Pretty much all M96 Porsche engines do, sadly.
Hold it to the floor, and boom!
It's a Honda not a Ford
Many tow companies can't take a vehicle over state lines. Im guessing that's why it was a pain to get it back to PHX.
The guy who we ended up finding was a f-ing hero though. Dude and his son raced Hondas (integras & civics) in a circle track series. Completely understood the assignment.
My college auto program has an nsx motor
Loudon exit 72 Honda Warehouse... You are familiar with it...
I was the FIRST Demo Employee! I destroyed SO SO Many brand new Honda and Acura parts to make room on the shelves for next year's parts. I have bad luck till the day I die because of all the rear view mirrors I destroyed
I could've bought one for $26k.....I bought the dudes S2K for $16k instead...the regret is palpable.
The cope-NSX. 😅
@@redslate not enough copium in the world to make me forget my mistake
It's better to just have both nsx and s2000, that way there is no regrets. Lol
@@user-ek5nl1jc4b grab a time machine and tell 20 year old me that.
You ediut!!! Kidding. I missed out on a few Integra Type Rs, a 1400-mile 2004 NSX, and 2 E30 M3s. 😢
What’s the shop?
I believe Science of Speed....a.k.a SOS.
Engine rebuilt yadda yadda yadda and a new short block later the car performance has improved 😢
Don’t know anything about swaps. Why not use the heads from the C3.2B motor?
The 3.2L they found was a “short block”…meaning block and rotating assembly-no heads.
Nice car!
🙏
Wonder if a Legend-RL C series would work
The 1st Gen Legend 2.7L and the 1995 Accord 2.7L shortblocks are the same as the NSX.
@@andydhillon1977 so a budget Nsx c series v6 is a possibility. Would be cool to see a TLX v6 twin turbo v6 swap (if its even tunable)
@@CRAPO2011 Honestly, I would ditch the C-Series engine and swap in a 2001-2003 TL/CL Type S J32A2 and have fun with that engine. Transmission bolts right up to it, or use the 2003 CL-S 6-spd, and go wild with it NA or FI.
I remember that day at the track in Phoenix, but I didn't know how bad it turned out. My NA1 is still below 50k, so I take that to mean it's just broken in😅
Barely😁 I recall a Japanese show (probably Best Motoring or Hot Version) dynoed a stock NSX with 10k miles and one with ~60k miles and the latter made more power having been actually broken in a bit). Current record mileage is approaching 500k miles though so you're good!
With 1st Gen NSX parts as rare as they are now, it's probably time to retire that car, and just enjoy it as a beautiful weekend driver.
You always find a way. The second rebuild is proof of that. That’s coming from a guy that daily drove a car from ‘85 and I’m sorting out a car from 79 right now. There’s always a way, just gotta have deep pockets sometimes.
Oh, if I had any sense I'd be doing this in a Miata/Porsche/Corvette. That said, there are compromises with all of those options, just in different ways. That and the only way this car is a museum piece is if I keep driving it until it's mileage or track tally makes it one, so I'm not too worried. 😁
I wouldn't run the C-Series engine anymore. I would swap in a J32A2 TL/CL engine. Much better engine.
@@andydhillon1977 On my channel I explored the J swap and drove a spicy J swapped NSX in the process. It was honestly impressive and, if I we'd decided to swap it's probably the way we'd have gone.
@LapoftheWorld very cool!
The J Series is such an amazing engine series. I have a 2003 Accord V6 6-spd.
Sounds like they didn’t line bore it the first time
I’m starting to wonder if I’ve driven that car seeing as it’s from Tennessee. When I was young I dated a girl who’s parents owned a black NSX and I was allowed to drive it. I miss the car more than her😅. From what he’s saying he isn’t that far from me. If the car came from the North Carolina Appalachian mountains in the late 90s, I would be sure it’s the same car.
Hate to spoil the cool thought, but this one lived it's life until about 2008 in the Northeast. No idea about the girl, but could've had worse in-laws, lol :)
@@LapoftheWorld a guy can dream lol. They were cool to let me at 18 date their daughter and drive their NSX. What a time
Either a sloppy job by the rebuilder, or the wrong call not to do a full rebuild.
Had my 87 911 top end rebuilt, 12k miles ago. The work was 100% warranted for 2 yrs.
I don't understand how you do half a job when you're already in there. It's like changing a timing belt and leave the water pump alone, only to have the pump failing on you on your way home from the shop
To be clear, round one was essentially a full rebuild. We didn't leave much on the table, heads refreshed, block machined, new pistons, bearings, crank. We re-used 4 of the 6 original rods (one was damaged originally, the other wouldn't balance into tolerance so was swapped for one that would). Oil pump was a new unit off the shelf from 3rd party. Very weird failure.
If round one was “a full rebuild” it shouldn’t have failed. Can’t imagine I’d pay a second time to repair a failed fix. Find a new repair tech.
Feels like part of the story is being left out. I’m pretty chill when it comes to unfortunate situations and/or people making mistakes, but to not even address the elephant in the room is strange.
You had a full rebuild where the engine was “balanced to within a gram,” and which I’m sure wasn’t inexpensive, immediately followed by a catastrophic failure and we’re right back to the same place?
@@Stoy981 There is a bit more to it than what's shared here but, at the same time, way less drama than one might suspect given the situation. I've gone into more "technical" detail on my own channel, with respect to warranty terms (there was one) etc, but putting the elephant to bed, we're still on friendly terms with all involved.
There’s a red nsx near me with a blown motor.. the guy won’t ever sell it and it’s been sitting in his parking lot for 10+ years
What a shame. I bet by the time he decides to sell it, it will be destroyed.
It have been brought to attention that all you need to blow an NSX engine is Hoviee and a race track. Nothing more.
Dry sump it bro. Not knowledgeable enough about the nsx but I do know that there have been some racing versions. Take a page from their playbook
Agreed
Dry sump is the way to go.
Right this second there isn't a remotely off-the-shelf solution to dry sump an NSX. It can be done, but for a street driven car you'd give up AC etc. I do know a guy who's working on a solution for that but it wasn't quite ready to go in time....also the dry sump system alone would be near $10k...so there's that. It may happen eventually, but I don't want to be the guinea pig, lol.
It's not needed.
Dude, stop looking at the camera. 😉🤣
He looks creepy when he does that! 😅
Lotta cope out if this guy. 500k km out of a set of bearings is nothing that requires complex explanation. Bearings wear, none of them last forever.
More Like 1990 To 2005
I thought the NSX shared the same engine block and technology as the Acura TL sedan that out performed M5 BMW’s. And I love the NSX
It shares the same Blick as the 1st Gen Legend and 5th Gen 2.7L V6 Accords.
My man said "reciprocating assembly" ... rotating assembly is what you were looking for there buddy. We ain't building a saw-zall my man. 🤦🏻♂️
That thing all the pistons do: "reciprocating". Interchangeable terminology, both right, different ways. 🙂
Why daily a classic NSX? Legit question.
They're too damn good at it. Comfortable on the street, carry a decent amount of stuff, quick enough to be fun, and they'll put up with the miles.
@@LapoftheWorldinteresting. I will have to go sit in a friend's NSX and look at my load out. Thanks for the answer bro! (I asked because I normally tow a track car and I can't pack light to save my life haha)
Engine hours > miles
The shop most likely would have stood behind the work that they did but it sounds like a failure in the cooling system ( electric cooling fans stopped working. hole in the radiator. blown cooling hose. Etc ) that wasn't recognized until the damage was already done ( driven while running too hot for too long ).. If that's the case then you can't blame the shop for car owner error.. Now if the shop would have worked on the cooling system also, that would be a different story!
I got to drive a NSX every week for a month back in 92 when I was fortunate enough to work for the Pgh Steelers as a ball boy. I forget who owned it (I want to say Dwight Stone owned it, but I seriously can't remember whos' it was), but I got to take that NSX for a wash twice a week and I was only 15 years old with no license then. Lol. That car was fun AF to drive plus I felt like a big dawg driving a NFL payers car that was worth more than my life was at the time. We only got paid $40/week as ball boys, so all of us did odd jobs for the players (usually tae players vehicles for a wash/vac or do the players personal laundry) to earn extra cash. Hell, we all made more $ doing jobs for the players than we made as ball boys. Unfortunately I lost that job due to my dumbass breaking the rules we were given to follow and there was only 2 rules. Main rule we had was, we weren't allowed to be in any of the college dorms other than the one we were assigned to. Well, I got caught 4 times in the other college dorms because I was sleeping with one of the college girls I met at St Vincent's College the first week we were there. If they only knew, I snuck out every night for like 3 weeks to go have fun with that girl. LOL. Sry, but at 15, p***y was more important than following the rules we were given especially since that was the first p***y I ever had. LOL. The stupid s**t most of us guys do growing up.
Cant believe the sold called NSX gurus that did the rebuild didn't tell him yeah we can do a half ass rebuild on this but from our previous experience the chances of any kind of longevity is less than 50% i mean if they were in any way confident of the motor being 100% after rebuild they would have eaten 100% of its failure instead of charging for a rebuild and then saying well what do you want us to do when it blows up after only a few hundred higheay miles
It's also extremely common that aftermarket parts are the cause of failures. They aren't built to nearly the same standard as OEM.
You don't believe in proper grammar, do you?
@@andydhillon1977 not so much as a shop being upfront on what to expect from there work.
Sure lets keep hyping up the car that I already can never afford to make it even more unreachable
Don’t track my nsx got it
That's what you took away from this video?
He so burn
Seriously, if you are going to track the car a dry sump system is the best insurance for reliability & longevity. I cannot believe this guy has not woken up to the fact given the hard lesson 1st time round.
Especially given the amount of money spent with the new engine.Talk about being so naive & ignorant of the facts & obviously has too much money to throw away.
This guy is kidding himself being so blasé in his attitude & looking at destroying another engine.
It’s not a matter of if but when.
Good old Science of Speed!
Nightmare company.
Why do you say it’s a nightmare company? Other than what was said in the video lol.
I've bought a good bit of stuff from them. Never had a problem.
I had to stop at 3:52. BORING! It was like listening to paint dry. Boo.
What is the purpose of this video?
To tell a story.
Lol I agree. Basically just a story that many people who track their cars experience.
Kind of a pointless story that never even lived up to the title of the vid.
Adam Sawatari has brand new nsx engine!
It says a lot about someone who has a shop build a race motor twice and you do pretty much a 18 minutes long commerical and never say the shops name after it sounds like they did you right
Tbh you’re right. They may not have wanted to have been mentioned because of the first failure but the way he handled it from flying them home to working on it a second time and building a new Frankenstein motor like yea they deserve some credit.