Thank you to everyone for their generous support - the simple act of LIKING, SUBSCRIBING and COMMENTING helps me grow this content. If you'd like to support the channel in a greater way you could always - BUY ME A COFFEE - buymeacoffee.com/workbenchhobbies Or you could always connect with the community we are building over on the Patreon Page www.patreon.com/user?u=87702055
Great demo! As a former US Army tanker and helicopter pilot and model builder, I have to say I don’t like the (excessive) use by some of black washes or black base to highlight lines, which is not realistic at all in my experience, but as an artistic technique, I understand why some like it to bring out the object. I prefer showing depth with dirt and wear marks, which to me is more realistic.
Thanks for connecting. I think all of these techniques require a level of restraint and refinement and often when trying them or learning it can be easy to push it too far. But like you said, some people love that look. All about finding that sweet spot of what you like on your own builds. So pleased you enjoyed the demo. Thanks again for joining me on the channel 🙏🍻🤩
Exactly. Never understood the over use of black washes or bases. It makes models look cartoon like or obviously a model. They do not look realistic to my eye. Take a sherman in reality it's painted olive drab then used as is the light picks out shades naturally. I'm with you on applying dirt and wear marks for a realistic look.
@@magnuskallas - Its all about the style you like for your own models, and in fairness, looking at this experiment before it has been finished is a little misleading. Washes and weathering tone all of these stylised effects down and (with luck) all make for a realistic looking model. Appreciate your comments
I was an avid modeller as a kid but looking to return as I approach retirement. Seeing a demo like this does nothing but give me more excitement & enthusiasm for that day to arrive sooner. Very much appreciate the "why's" as you go through the demo, since this gives a glimpse into the depth of experience that guides us. Very grateful for the demo & looking forward to deeper dives as they come up. Thanks
Thanks Dave. Glad to hear the info was helpful. Just be careful when you re enter this amazing hobby not to try to do too much too soon. Focus on the basics and master them. But mate! Excited we have another modeller coming back home 😎 Thanks for joining the chat 🙏🍻
Fantastic video. This has reinforced what I've always suspected with white primers, black primers, zenithol, etc etc etc: In that its all really down to how you build the layers and then the weathering and detailing on top. I've suspected for a long time where you start isn't nearly as important as where you finish.
Hi Dear Friend, I found your channel by coincidence. I'm very happy to did that. There are so much great information for me. It almost like a modeling school. After your videos, i noticed that i have missing information. I will apply this precious knowledge to models which i will make. Thank you so much. With my best wishes, Greetings from Istanbul.
I think i produce better results using the black basing, but find the pre shading makes it easier to see the highlights and shadows as you are doing them bc of the stark contrast between your light primer and dark color you are applying. Amazing video on the topic. I know I've said it before but your narrating of the videos is top notch and greatly appreciated.
I do neither. I tend to think in terms of how does a real vehicle paints oxidizes and fade and become stained. And that is from the top surface of the paint and not from underneath or the bottom of the paint. So I start with the new paint surface on a grey primer, then apply what color the real primer was use and then interpret the fading, oxidation etc, using mostly pastels, and some other types of washes. The problem I see using different layers of paint, especially acrylics ( which I have generally stopped using ) is, you can sometimes see the "layer" where it was applied to. Giving a sort of "stepped" painted surface. Which for my liking is too unnatural looking. Another thing I personally won't do, is the white squiggly lines on "each" separate panel. Since oxidation does not oxidize differently on each individual panel. And when accompanied or separated by a heavy and wide dark panel line, also doesn't look natural. If you took this same 1/35 model and up scaled it to 1:1, could you imagine how humongous this line would be. Note, this is no grip against those who black base or pre-shade. No, to each there own. It is just "my" thoughts on and why I personally do neither of them. The number one thing in modeling ( for me ) is do your own thing ( think out of the box ) and enjoy what you do and be happy with what you do.
Very good stuff! I wasn’t looking for a vid on preshading but do intend to give the technique a try for the first time soon on a model. By lucky chance UA-cam recommended this vid while I was searching for something else! Your tutorial was very clear and well explained. Thank you very much. I feel less scared about giving preshading a go now.
Interesting take on Black basing. This is different to what I have seen done before. The method I have seen and use is to paint the black primer, then coat in random shapes in a lighter colour (such as yellow under green, or white under grey). Then the final colour coat is sprayed thinly over the squiggles so that they show though to give that mottled appearance. Your method gives a different effect, although similar with the variation in the paint colour from the "squiggles".
I would suggest what you are referring to is a combination of/ variation of the two techniques. It’s really all about the result, and what you are explaining would give some amazing tones and variation. I think we sometimes get caught up in ‘labels and terms’. I just tried to keep it simple. There’s more that one way to skin a cat 🐱 Appreciate your comments. 😊😎🍀
I'm a fantasy painter that recently moved to military vehicles (Imperial Guard 40k) and I'm still treating the tanks like organic creatures. In the sense that I apply a flat basecoat and then start soft shading the darker recesses by hand. I find it more satisfying than when I use my airbrush.
Hey Trazynn. This hobby is all about finding the techniques and styles that bring you the most joy and using them. For me using the airbrush tops that list but I understand that’s not for everyone. Finding joy in our hobby is what it’s all about 🙏 Thanks for sharing your thoughts 💭 🏆🙌🏼👍🍻😎
@@workbenchhobbies4316 excellent point. Many times people get into the 'this is best' method of thinking, and there's many options available. Pick what works for you. Advocating for it is good too, as it introduces others to it. I use a mix of hand brush and airbrush, and penciling techniques as well to get what I want. The individual projects dictate which route I go, based on my preferences and experiences. The best way to find what works for you is to grab something and try it!
Very nice use of a ‘yellow green’ airbrushed filter over the olive drab. I would normally use an oil filter of similar colour applied using an old fashioned hairy stick. Having now viewed your tutorial, that may well change! Regarding pre-shading versus black basing, the latter wins for me. I prefer the subtle effects that can be achieved using that technique.👍😎
I am glad you mentioned that figure painters are the ones to use black basing first in this hobby. Some people rush to pick a term to "invent" a technique, often it exists in real life already in the hobby. We don't all have to be famous ;-) Another great video Clayton - keep them coming!
Well we can accidentally discover it ourselves. First time I experimented with I had never heard anyone else doing it. I am certainly no super genius of the modeling world so I would suggest millions of model builders over the years 'discovered' this technique by themselves.
@@glenchapman3899Totally agree. I’ve lots of little techniques I thought were original but found out later they were nothing of the sort. I use black undercoat on figures quite a lot. I first read about the technique in an early issue of Miniature Wargames but it was for micro tanks. I transferred the technique to figures and thought I was a genius!
I liked and subscribed! Your narration is excellent, and the pace of your video is perfect. I'm very much looking forward to watching your other (and future) videos. Also, I'm very impressed that you seem to take time to respond to almost every comment!! I wish there were more UA-camrs like you.
Hey Mark. I was thinking of messing with you and not responding but I couldn’t do it 😆😆 Seriously though, I can’t begin to tell you how appreciative I am to receive a message like this. You are the reason I’m going to keep pushing these out! So thanks to you. It means a great deal to me. 🙏🏆☝️🍀🤩
First time viewer - nice demo! I’ve tried both and I prefer the black base method on armor and pre-shading on aircraft. I’ve also done post-shading on both types of models, where I lay down a solid base coat of olive drab, for example, followed by darkened and lightened layers.
Nice! So glad you’ve found the channel. I like the sound of treating armour and aircraft differently…and come to think of it I’d probably take that approach too. Maybe the armour subjects can handle those deeper and more contrasted tones 🤔 Hope to see you on the channel again soon 🙏🏆💪☝️
Thank you for this video and experiment. I basically always black base but with every new model I agonize over the question if I should change it up and pre shade. Now that I know the outcome is not that different I know I don’t need to worry so much about it.
Although I have a few years experience at building, painting and scratch building models, I have been away from the hobby for a few years. Now that I am retired I have four kits to motivate me to get back into the hobby. Great video, just subscribed!
Clayton, I am so glad that you did this right now. Perfect timing for me, I was trying to decide which of the two techniques to use for an IDF super sherman. And after seeing your work, I’m going to try black basing for the first time. I really want a mottled varied approach so I’m gonna give it a shot. Thank you so much for doing this. It is so helpful. Well produced video super clear and I’m glad I started following you after hearing you on the On The Bench podcast.
Hey Martin. Great to see you here on the channel and I’m so grateful you’ve connected and are finding the content helpful 🤩🤩. Can’t wait to see your results! 🍀🍻
Great video Clayton. I’m r recently gone to a combination of both methods. Black base, exaggerated mottled surface, then pre-shading with both freehand airbrush, spatter masks and sponge-applied acrylics. I think there is a place for inks too, which I might explore in my next project. Love the cat hahaha
Really interesting video, I have started black basing lately because its easier to get shadow but happy to see that the painted surface was very similar on top
Good comparison effort: both techniques have a place in the hobby, and both need practice and judgement to make best use of the results. Keep up the good work with these kind of educational videos
Thank you for sharing how to use thinner to help colors and color build up. These techniques really help a person who really wants to get into model building and have excellent results to encourage more building. Since this presentation is extremely informative, I was wondering if you already have a video that shares a beginner's guild for equipment? If not, please make one! Thank you again
Thanks for your kind words. No, I don’t have that video…yet….but will add it to the list. One thing I would say though, is if you are starting out try and get the basics down pat before trying these techniques. Start with a nice, clean spray job. Once you have mastered that then look to extend the skills and try something like this. Really appreciate your comments 🙏🥂🍺🍻
Appreciate this comparison video. I started with the pre-shading technique but moved on to the post-shading technique which I like much more as I can control the highlights and darker areas with shades rather than black and white. As you've said, regardless of technique, thinning is the most important part of the layering technique so you get smooth transitions in color and avoid tide marks.
Most interesting video, I normally use a black or dark primer coat. Seems it all in the amount of thinners you use in the following top coat.Thanks for posting .
Thinning ratios and the opacity vs translucence of the paint is one of the most important things to mastery with paint. Most people don’t thin their paint nearly enough. Thanks for joining in 😎🍺💪☝️
For the pre shade you can work hi-lights with a warm white or very light warm grey BEFORE laying your color down thinly. Saves having to mix in high and low tones. Keeping the intended color more tightly constrained with less mixing variation.
Great video! I am planning on tackling a Star Wars AT-ST (black series scale) soon and was going to use marbling as my main technique. This method is essentially the same idea and helps to broaden my understanding of the method as a whole. You deserve more subs bro, so here's another one coming at you! 😀
Hey Matt. Thanks for your support 🍻 I’ve built that At-st. You’re going to love it! That mono-tone scheme is perfect to play with some shading. Good luck with the project! I’m sure it’s going to be amazing! 🍻☝️🏆🍀🍺🤞
Here's a trick I used to do when painting miniatures. I'd do a base / primer of Tamiya Metallic Grey, then paint the base color over it rather thinly. It created a very natural looking weathering.
Great tutorial Clayton! I have been using the ‘pre-shade’ method on my models with varying success, and mainly because I am not a confident airbrush user (yet). The subtle lightening of panels and other areas of the model after the main colour is laid down, is still an issue for me. However, I think that this ‘post-shading’ method is the way to go, and I have a test subject that I use to practice on. It is an old Tamiya Tiger that was one of my first attempts at building and weathering a kit, but it was a bit of a disaster. It used to live in the ‘cupboard of shame’ until I found a new use for it. I use it now when I want try something new, or to improve my skill at different techniques that I am unfamiliar with, and I have to say it has helped me a lot. I am now trying out lacquer paints, and I have just about conquered the thinning ratio and air pressure issues, and my ‘post-shading has improved in leaps and bounds. I would like to thank you for the great content on your channel, and the way you present your projects and tutorials. It really helps improve the experience of modelling, even for an old bloke like me. Cheers for now😊!
Congratulations on: 1. ‘Yet’ - love that language! This is why your modelling is on the up! 2. You have a paint mule! Everyone should have an old kit to try stuff on 3. You’re willing to try new things So pleased to have you as part of this community Gary. Thanks again for connecting 🙏🍻🍀🏆
@@workbenchhobbies4316 Hi Clayton. I never thought of calling my test tank a ‘mule’ but the name has now stuck. Although, I have to say that if it was a real mule, it would never put up with the tortures I put it through. It is so beat up and ugly now, that when I want to experiment, I have to fight it to bring it out into the light. All good fun!
I usually black base and I have used the yellow green in my lightening of the OD .. I also use the dark yellow and desert yellow along with deck tan and buff.. it just varies the colour a little more. One thing to always think about (and I have gotten caught more than once) it to go lighter .. all the weathering can really darken your colour much more than you wanted. Great tutorial.
I remember back in the mist of time using pastels to post shade worked a treat I don't think there is a right or wrong way .it's your model so do what you fancy lol
Absolutely. There are many ways to achieve a result, so do what works for you. I’m just trying to share techniques and ideas in the hope people can try them at home and get more joy from their own modelling journey. Appreciate your comments 🙏🍻
When I turned 18 I went from enamel paints on Airfix Napoleonic's with no primer to 25 mm metal Napoleonic's, Minifigs I think, with acrylics. The metals with acrylics definitely needed a primer and I used white to begin with, but this gave me a blisteringly bright finish. So, following a tip from a gamer magazine, I went black. As you noted, red and yellow on black is a nightmare and I started using a mid brown on the black and then red. The results were great and the black took away that super brightness. By the way, the Airfix soldiers still hold their paint and that is since the mid 70's. Since then my best results with pre shading come with the use of Contrast paints on the models I paint.
Fantastic! I think most of us have gone down a similar path with mini figs. I used to love the D&D stuff..purely for the sculpting, and yes, learned so much trying to paint them. Thanks for connecting here on the channel. I appreciate it 👋👍💪☝️
Hi Clayton Just working back through my playlists lol😊 A very interesting technique comparison! There are so so many variations of painting techniques out there to help confuse the average person and it was cool to watch you doing both on the same subject. Great work mate and I hope you guys didn’t get too much sand in your drinks whilst at Byron Bay 😂
Thanks Michael. You’re 100% on the money. So many techniques and variations on techniques. Hope I didn’t confuse the situation ! And no…the drinks didn’t last long enough to get any sand in them 🫣😉
That was a excellent tutorial, I am not a great painter, but I tend to use grey with black shading, I have tried using Tamiya acrylic OD but find it too dark, so I use Vallejo US OD, and find it good to use, thanks for sharing, best regardx from a Kiwi living in Melbourne 👌👍👌👍👌👍
I used to do pre-shading a lot and I used to approach it completely differently. I would start with black base, and add two layers of successively lighter paint. I would take into consideration direction of the light, including more pronounced bounce-light. The effect would be a black-gray-white model with all the light information. It not only make painting more consistent between parts and models, but also makes the whole process much faster and accurate. One important thing is I stopped using canned paint long time ago. Using airbrush for the base is much better in most cases. Cool experiment tho. I really enjoyed it. Cheers!
Two more things: 1. controlling contrast in pre-shade is super important. 2. If you use preshading you should try to use as few colour layers as possible and they should be as thin as possible. In the end the results should be the same if put enough work. The biggest advantage of preshading is speed.
when looking at the pics it seems to me the the black base has a little more green shade. Very nice and instructive video :) Thanks a lot for your efforts and great work for everybody. Cheers
That ‘greener shade was probably a case of that yellow filter being a little heavier on that side 🤷🏻 Really thankful people are enjoying the content. Appreciate you connecting here 🙏🍀
I mainly build 1/72 aircraft, I've been using both techniques. I find that black basing on single colour schemes like modern fighters in grey works well for introducing a marbled colour with variation in density of the colour rather than it being a boring grey blob. I find Pre-shading tends to work well on multi-coloured camo schemes like WW2 RAF subjects. I have utilised both techniques on multiple aircraft and subjects and I like aspects of both, I don't think one is better than the other and the outcomes are both pleasing to the eye when done well. However in the armour scheme you present here I prefer the pre-shading side.
I like doing multi basing. Like black basing, but base color is dependent on final color. Pink for reds, tan or mustard for yellows and lighter greens and so on. For doing highlights and squiggles, use multiple warm and cold colors to add variation.
Well it certainly complicates the process. I’d usually create variation in camouflage schemes with post shading rather than trying preshade…but like with anything it depends on the actual scheme you are trying to paint. Great question too btw. Hope that helps 🙏
Possibly... but I think Id be more inclined to forget the pre-shade and use a post-shading technique to created variation and shadows. But like with anything in this hobby...give your idea a try! You might unlock something really special!
I have to use purely water based paints as here in the UK we get ripped buying Tamiya paint because stores only stock the tiny 10ml bottles. The water based paints are very good at basic coverage but not thinning out and shading. You can't use alcohol or the paint goes mad in the airbrush.Years ago the larger bottles were available that's changed my first paint choice.
I used to use acrylics all the time and you can get some really good results with them. Just takes a bit of practice. Which brand are you using? Whatever the answer though I’d strongly advise to use a thinner or flow improver of the same brand until you got a feel for how the paint was working. You should be able to get reasonably fine lines and shades using acrylic paints. Just keep at it 👍💪💪
use black base then drybrush or 'pre shade with airgun) white over it to pick out the raised surfaces then when you paint it its naturaly lighter on raised bits gives very fast contrast can do faces ext with a single wash if you get drybrush of white right
Thanks for your comments. Yep…lots of different ways you can tackle the shading. Will have to give it a try. Hope you have been enjoying the channel 🍻☝️💪
I'm too cheap to get an airbrush, although I *do* want one. I get my tank shading effects by painting the model a slightly lighter green than I want and then a very brisk and coarse drybrush of silver, followed by a generous black wash. This brings the green to the right tone. Next I do a coarse drybrush in O Drab to sharpen the shadow effect. Then a drybrush in Chromate Green(aka Interior Green) on the corners and edges for highlight. Finally, I apply the decals followed by some understated weathering with drybrushed tan along the upperworks and brown down in the suspension.
Hey ! If you works for you and you are happy then that’s awesome 🙌🏼 For me though I get most of my joy from using the airbrush. I just couldn’t imagine my modelling life without it. Really appreciate you joining in the conversation 🍀🍻🙏
Personally I prefer blackbasing as it also takes less time and effort,but it can leave unnatural shadows.Everyone does as they Like,and great video explaining it.
It really comes down to the colours you intend to paint over the top. It won’t work for everything but it will work for most things…Thanks for your comments 😎🤩
Welcome aboard! Re the thinning…that was for the yellow filter so was about 90% thinner 10% paint. Maybe even less paint than that. Is a tint rather than a colour going down. Appreciate you joining in. Thank you 🙏🏆🙌🏼☝️🍺
Thank you very much for your research. I'd say the black-based side suits more for "worn" \ "aged" effect, not for newly produced tank from factory. Also, you can easily add more shades along with highlights - it's not prohibited :)
Hey 👋 For sure. Modelling isn’t ever a one size fits all and each subject needs to be considered as to how we will approach it. It’s one of the things I enjoy the most. That planning and execution phase. Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🙏💪🍺
@@workbenchhobbies4316Forgot to say that I really appreciate that you've mentioned paints IDs, mixing ratios and pressure used for painting. That's an extra work that really helps to reproduce similar conditions when learning from your video.
I think it depends on the model and the colour you are painting, but I completely agree re the post-shade! It’s one of my most favourite things to do! Thanks for connecting ☝️🍻😎
I think a great follow-on video would be if you put the effects up against a very different technique like oil paint rendering or against a really old-school technique like what would have been the main-stream thinking back 40 or 50 years ago.
Pre-shading and then I apply the dry brush technique. More simple, not so uniform finish and thus, more realistic in my opinion. Then apply pastel colours for rust and dirty areas.
Very informative video. I'm starting back into the hobby after 40+ years and trying to learn newer techniques. How would you lighten a black vehicle? I am currently working on a vietnam era gun truck that was painted solid black. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Welcome back to the hobby 😊 you won’t be disappointed! Black can be a tricky colour to execute and there are a lot of variables when trying to answer than question (like your skills, your tools, your paints etc) If it was me I’d be thinking in terms of greys rather than a deep black. Remember as modellers we are trying to create artificial shadows and highlights. Your shadowed areas would be the blacks and your highlights would be dark greys. Make sense? I’ve actually been thinking about doing a video around something similar…just need to find some time. Hope that helps 🤔🙄😉🍀🍻
Thank you so much. I tried on a scrap panel base black , layered a dark grey base in a mottled pattern like you used then a lighter grey in vertical lines, now I just need to take the shine off the white decals. Again, thank you. It's folks like you who keep people interested in the hobby.
I think we are seeing 6 of one and a half dozen of another. so then the question is what comes next? Color Modulation? Zenthail lighting vs. Panel highlighting? I hear arguments that some of these are "just so unrealistic" but at the same time they often look the best. I think there is still a lot to explore.
Yep. Agree. There’s not much in it and as much as I dislike structured zenithal lighting it can look great sometimes. So many techniques to explore and do little time 🕰️ 😩 Appreciate your thoughts 🙏💪🍻✅
got a question from a really niche place for you! Do you have any notes on preserving/creating texture? The the light denting of homogenous/cast steel works wonders and its always a shame to have to fill them with paint. I try to bring this sort of textured look in the prepping stages working on certain gunpla - I sometimes sit and think funny things to myself like "how would these metals react to hardness tests?" and "Zeon suits should look like John Deere."
Hello - and thanks for the question. Firstly...if there is texture present on the moulding of the kit and when you paint it is filling that in then I would suggest you are dumping far too much paint onto the model. You should be able to maintain even the finest of detail in the model. Perhaps consider thinning you paint further and trying to build it up in multiple thin coats rather than one big dump. Second - Im always considering texture and trying to reconcile my builds with real life reference...so you are not alone there. Maybe have a look at my recent T34 video - ua-cam.com/video/maJXwKnN9Cc/v-deo.html - I apply some texturing effects to the turret prior to painting. That could be a cool thing to do on your Gunpla builds ? A point of difference ? Thanks for joining in. Appreciate you being part of the community 🙏
Excellent and extremely helpful video. As for preference, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you used less paint using the pre-shaded method as compared to the black base. For reasons of economy and detail retention, if my assumption is correct, I would prefer pre-shading. I work primarily in 1:72 scale, as a little goes a long way in that scale.
Yes, slightly different spraying technique on the pre-shade which in turn would use slightly less paint…in theory at least. But in terms of how much you’d save that would be very difficult to quantify. Minuscule amount I’d imagine. Great observation though. Thanks for joining the conversation 🏆🍻☝️🙏
Hello, I am not very experieced with airbrushing, looking for advice on some basic issues I have recently encoutered. Why the paint in your airbrush have so many bubles? Is it normal? Sometimes I have the same situation. How to prevent it? Cheers, Greg
Hey Greg. Must admit when editing the video I was surprised by the bubbles too. Usually that would happen if there was an obstruction in the nossle or possibly an air leak somewhere. One of the silicone seals on my airbrush perished a while ago and I couldn’t get a replacement so used the closest one I could find from the hardware store. It could be a result of that not fitting as well as it should. Doesn’t affect my spraying though. If it’s happening to you I’d break the airbrush down, clean it thoroughly and check all your seals. Hopefully that solves your problem. Thanks for joining in. ✅👌🏼😎🍻🙏
@@workbenchhobbies4316 Thank you very much for such a detailed explanation. I will pay more attention while cleaning the gear next time. I have to admit I was very impressed by your movie. Such a practical knowledge about painting is very welcomed, especially for people, who are looking how to improve their skills. I hope we will see more in future. Good luck. Greg
@@grzegorz2688 - Its people like you and comments like this that give me the energy to make them... so thanks to you. Its a lot of work but it is really satisfying to know Im adding some value to the hobby :)
Very nice stuff. Currently in the market for my first airbrush, will definitly be subbing and studying your techniques. Any tips on a good brush to go for?
Being it’s your first airbrush I’d be mindful not to spend too much. A good tool generally helps achieve superior results but as you are just starting make your mistakes with something that won’t matter so much. Keep in mind you’ll need a compressor too. No need to go finer than 0.3mm. That is a good general purpose airbrush. Make sure you get dual action. Not single. Hope that helps 💪🙏
@@workbenchhobbies4316 very much so, thank you! I was thinking of aiming for something middle of the road price and quality wise as I know I’ll be getting plenty of use out of it, but I don’t really know how big the difference is between quality ranges. And of course, I’ve done enough research to at least know what O need for a working setup, just the details are never made fully clear on a google search… I’ll note your advice!
I think for a lot of us that it comes down to habit...Once you get one right and how you like it you tend to stick with it...I black base all my kits these days...altho I actually use Panzer Grey Primer (Vallejo) which is off black...
@@workbenchhobbies4316 I was a professional muralist for 25 years working for top end hotels and private houses...We never used black...I had the same tube of black oil paint all that time and honestly I still have the same Winsor & Newton tube today in my paint stash, 35 years old...lol...Since I've retired I've started modelling again and learning to spray...and I still learn something new about paint with every video I watch and every model I render...The day I stop learning how to paint is the day I take up gardening...Thanks for the reply...From the UK
My issue with "pre-shading" is that at the end of the day it's pretty much just a pointless extra step. Black priming is useful for filling in all those nooks and crannies you'll never reach afterwards, so building from there is just fine. For figures I know I'll brush paint I just give a quick zenithal white coat so I could actually get some coverage with brush. With an airbrush it's not a problem.
Thanks for joining in. Not sure I agree with it being pointless because it can work really well…especially with certain colour combinations, but you are right in what you say regarding the recesses being addressed using the black base etc 🍻🙏
I tend to agree with you…but be mindful that different colours give different results..so like with everything in this hobby there’s no one true answer. Really appreciate you joining in ☝️🙏🙌🏼🏆🍺
I always thought that black basing was more trying to replicate reality and how those variations and shades build up. Crevices are naturally darker and somewhat hidden from subsequent layers of light (brighter colors), but also will collect dirt (washes) naturally. The mottled method of putting the paint on also emulates how they're painted in real life; with giant spray guns, where they try to be even as possible, but they're limited by the human arm moving the spray around, just like the little spot of the airbrush laying it down. The variation in tones mimics the slight variation in paint wear you get from the slightly uneven application of the paint out of the factory. Pre-shading, to me, just felt like trying to fake shadows and dirt on top of an already painted model. Sure, you could get it looking good, and even do some things you wouldn't normally see.. but it was al an effort to try and emulate just the look, rather than also emulate the reality of the paint on a real vehicle. This can also be faster, allowing you to sometimes skip steps.. or even slower as you add even more steps to really work up harder. Sure, there's no wrong way to paint.. just some appeal more than others for certain mindsets, skills or desired outcomes. But I'm also a bit biased in I don't like to build models of... well, models (like replicating a film prop, as is frequently done in the sci-fi genre), but I'm trying to actually replicate a real (or presumably real, in the case of fiction) vehicle. And the best way to really get it feeling real is to emulate how the colors got the way you might see them on a real vehicle. In the end, if you practice them both, I think you'll get more authentic looking results off black basing, where as pre-shading will allow you to push effects further, and give better control over the exaggeration than you could easily get with black basing (since it's trying to replicate reality). Some scales really need the exaggeration to sell the scale, so that could be real helpful there. Otherwise, I try and stick with black basing. Love the comparison though, helped me see them side by side better and think a little bit about how I paint and why I prefer what I do.
Thanks for your thoughtful feedback. You raise some really great points around the paint fading unevenly. Glad the video added some value for you and if nothing else reaffirmed that you were happy with the way you approach your paining. Really appreciate you joining in.
@@workbenchhobbies4316 I'm clearly a bit biased here (and heaping on confirmation bias too), so I should probably be a bit more object; but I do use the pre-shading and post-shading effects quite a bit if I'm painting miniatures or figures. You really need to exaggerate the contrast there and push shadows and highlights hard.. and while black basing can still be helpful, it's not nearly enough. Some artists use a form of it they call 'zenithal highlighting' but it's the same idea. And it still requires additional shading steps (pre-shading and post-shading) to get the model looking nice. The biggest thing I've learned was how much the scale of the model and type of material being painted really affects which techniques will give you good results. I black-base everything out of habit now, but I have to use pre-shading methods on a lot of things due to the scale, or being very complex figures/miniatures where normal black-basing techniques just aren't enough. Thanks again for the video. Really got me to think hard about why I use certain techniques and when.. and even gives me some ideas to try out next.
Great question. That end cap limits the amount the trigger can be pulled back, and I find it just gets in the way. Having it off also speeds up the flushing and cleaning process. Hope that helps
@@workbenchhobbies4316 Interesting. I took my needle out once (out the front) for a “Deep cleaning” and it was 99% clean. I rinse and “Back bubble” with Lacquer thinner. I LOVE lacquer thinner!
Nice experiment! I do have to say that the side you ended up preferring (the "black base") is also the side with more details in the model, e.g. the turret hatch, the hull machine guns, even the tools attached to the hull. To make this experiment more "scientific", you should do this all over again this time switching which side you use each technique with ;) (somewhat joking, but seriously, I'm sure this affected your perception of each technique, and therefore your preference).
Hello Clayton. With all due respect, I think the result of both finishes being so similar is due to the fact that after you made a great explanation and demonstration of both Black Basing and Pre-Shading, you then applied Post-Shading to both sides with the lightened OD. That unified the finish between both of the sides. Generally, a pure Post-Shaded finish would involve painting both the black shadows over the grey primer and also some intense white highlights before you apply the transparent green; the white areas would (ideally) negate the need to apply Post-Shading afterwards with lightened greens. I say ideally as usually it isn't enough and you still have to apply some Post-Shading... Now, in doing what you did I think you made an even better point which is that Post-Shading is -- in my opinion -- by far the most important of all these shading techniques as it bumps up the tints of the base colour and makes some punchy highlights which will withstand the later weathering. That generally tones down the finish and darkens it, so adding the highlights is often crucial in avoiding a light sink. Relying purely on Pre-Shading or Black Basing, it can be hard to end up with enough highlights.
Hey Evan - Appreciate your thoughtful comments and you make a good point. I guess when I did the experiment I was wanting to approach it as I would when I paint my models. I was curious as to the effect the black base V Preshade would have on the overall colour and look.. Maybe I should have kept it simple and stuck to the basics.. but where is the fun in that?! :) Thanks again for tuning in. Its appreciated
@@workbenchhobbies4316very good point. Like I said, Post-Shading is definitely what I would focus more on as well, since I feel that I have more control in that stage as I'm directly painting highlights rather than sort of painting around them (or transparently over them to preserve highlights) as you have to with some techniques. Your style is excellent, and you've made a good conclusion that I agree with about both Black Basing and Pre-Shading producing very similar results; they're just the first step in a long process!
Since it's the same modeller aiming broadly at the same outcome, it's perhaps not surprising that both sides turned out very much the same. But thanks for doing the exercise. Might be interesting to see an exponent of black basing and an exponent of pre-shading using the same paints on the same kit to see what different results they come up with.
I don't Know how it sparked off this video, but this has inspired me to get a model and spend time building it up photoetch and all Tape off one corner, prime it and pre shade it then tape off another corner before putting the base colors then finally in the final area finish it with weathering and all That way each corner shows a different part of the process of making the model
I’ve always wondered about using black as a base as it sort of kills the fact of light bouncing into the gaps. Using too much black in normal illustration can kill an image. Maybe using a darker top colour or more saturated darker top colour as a base. I’m not sure .. but I always see over the top black lining when this doesn’t happen at real scale. I guess it depends if you are trying to represent the light at scale .. dunno
Hey! Thanks for joining in. I see using the black base more as an insurance policy on a 3D object. Ideally I’d be trying to cover it with the top coat. If I’ve thinned the paint appropriately then the hope would be to keep the coverage minimal in the ‘shaded’ areas and look to build the middle tone colour up just by applying more paint. Hope that makes sense?
I find black basing works better for me, as long as I properly compensate for how it darkens the kit. Its a mistake not to lighten the paint when using this technique. Usually start with black, then shades of grey until I have a black and white shaded model. Then I paint the color on. OTOH pre-shading almost always shows flaws, or disappears.
Hey 👋 It sounds to me like you are using a combination/variation of the two techniques rather than a strictly’black base’. You’ll definitely be getting some interesting and cool shades and variation. That’s for sharing 💪👍
It’s important to remember these finishes are just the base layer and get toned down during the weathering process. Really appreciate your view And joining in on the conversation 🙏✅😎
I’d say you are thinning it too much or trying to drop too much paint in one go. With acrylic paints you usually have to mist it on in multiple light coats and build your coverage up that way. Although priming is always a good idea with acrylics you don’t have to do it to get the paint to work.
Well…to confess I had to google that term…but now I understand 😆. Like with anything, execution has a huge baring on the outcome, so maybe the ‘slap chop thing might work if the paint was kept to nothing but a glaze 🤷🏻 But thanks for teaching me a new word 🤓 🍀🍻
I find experimenting and screwing up the process invaluable, if you learn its never a loss I just uploaded a trial paint scheme for a jetski build but never tryed airbrushing at art level So i map out and intentionally spray pretty random then reverse the same template and dont repeat that an boom worked, go check it out tell me what ya think left tentacle good, right tentacle is the wrong way
@@workbenchhobbies4316 its on my channel here in shorts "idea for jetski" Ive now desaturated the right side will reshoot and see if I can match the left if I can then I guess I'll layout the actual idea on the ski
@@workbenchhobbies4316 thanks bro refined the process, desaturated, corrected light source angle it's way better now Think I will move on to the actual project now no point in waisting more paint on a test
Great question…and it’s actually quite complex. I think the simple answer is they are the same… These techniques tend to shine more on the mono-tone schemes, so if you were painting a subject with camouflage this would really only effect the base layer. When painting camouflage I’d get my variation in those colours using the airbrush to highlight and then oil paints the create my shades. Hope that helps. Appreciate your question. Was a goodie! 💪🙏🍀
I always feel like preshading leads to a kind of dreamy visage version of the basic tones while post-shading makes details pop a bit more realistically.
I do love post-shading too. I guess it’s all part of the process and it can be a little misleading just looking at one technique in isolation. Thanks for your comments. Appreciate you joining in 🙏☝️😎💪
Hey there 👋 It’s important to remember this is just the base layer and layers of weathering will tend to soften the contrast and depth, which is why a lot of people like the black based option. But yep. I agree with you. Pre-shade looks a little smoother. Appreciate you joining the conversation 🙏🍺💪
Cheers. There's plenty of food for thought there. Once Ive built my Coast Guard helicopter I'm hoping to do some cold war stuff. I'm minded to try and up my airbrushing now.
We never did this. We always painted the lightest first then to the darkest. Then we would begin to remove the layers by rubbing the model. The raised areas would rub the most removing the darker tones leaving lighter tones. Of course, you did this with the end result in mind so it wasn't done willy nilly. The dark areas would be the areas that were recessed and hardest to reach so obviously they stayed dark. After that, areas that would receive a lot of foot traffic would be silvered with a dull silver, like the edges of hatch openings, etc. After all that a careful wash, rust, dirt and dust would be carefully applied. We generally avoided building a psychological pretext to the model and the painting as we were not stuffy and arrogant and pretended to be abstractly wise.
Gee…sanding/rubbing the model back sounds fraught with danger! But if it works for you then that’s great. Not sure if I’m supposed to take offence to the stuffy and arrogant part 🤔 Thanks for joining in 🍺
@@workbenchhobbies4316 We never sanded. And it wasn't dangerous. It worked just fine and every modeler I knew did it this way. The results were outstanding. And we also didn't add any psychological pretext to the model. In fact, our models always won first place awards at the fair and other events we took them to.
Disagree This did not start in miniature painting. I have used this on models back in the 80's. I learned it from my farther having watched him do this on the U-control planes he had been building since his youth. I would mask off areas to achieve a paneled look on sci-models using a light grey/white primer and a dark contrasting color for the masked area prior to the color coat being sprayed over. This creates a very subtle and subdue look of paneling.
As a person that paints portraits, I always wondered with the miniature painting world never looks at the hundreds of years of experience of fine arts. Black as an under layer is almsot never ever used but a strong Umber tone yes. Why? Because it helps to make the layers on top look a bit more warm and human brain tends to find warm subjects more interesting.
Might this be because the "black based" side of the model has more details though? Note it has the turret hatch, the machine gun and the various tools attached to the hull.. while the other side of the model is "plainer". I wonder...
The pre shading / highlight side looked like a quicker method. But the black base side with the random swirl layering method was more interesting. I'm going to give buth methods a go on my next models.
Was a surprise to me too, but different colours and application will give different results, so try be mindful of what you are hoping the model will look like once done and choose the appropriate path. Thanks for connecting ☝️🙏
Hearing people are going to try stuff I’m showing really makes the time and effort in putting these videos together worthwhile. Be sure to let me know how you go 🍀
Good question. Was more about workflow than anything. Was easier to spray the whole model in grey first and the mask and spray the black half. Hope that answers you question 🍺💪🙏
I've never understood this either/or mindset. i often use blackbasing, marbling, preshading, bleaching and post shading all in one build. this whole blackbasing OR preshading thing blows my mind that people can be so one dimensional.
I’ll never deal in absolutes and agree with you. I was just trying to simplify the techniques so people who were unfamiliar with them had a starting point. Thanks for joining in 💪
Thank you to everyone for their generous support - the simple act of LIKING, SUBSCRIBING and COMMENTING helps me grow this content. If you'd like to support the channel in a greater way
you could always - BUY ME A COFFEE - buymeacoffee.com/workbenchhobbies
Or you could always connect with the community we are building over on the Patreon Page
www.patreon.com/user?u=87702055
Great demo! As a former US Army tanker and helicopter pilot and model builder, I have to say I don’t like the (excessive) use by some of black washes or black base to highlight lines, which is not realistic at all in my experience, but as an artistic technique, I understand why some like it to bring out the object. I prefer showing depth with dirt and wear marks, which to me is more realistic.
Thanks for connecting. I think all of these techniques require a level of restraint and refinement and often when trying them or learning it can be easy to push it too far. But like you said, some people love that look. All about finding that sweet spot of what you like on your own builds.
So pleased you enjoyed the demo. Thanks again for joining me on the channel 🙏🍻🤩
Exactly. Never understood the over use of black washes or bases. It makes models look cartoon like or obviously a model. They do not look realistic to my eye. Take a sherman in reality it's painted olive drab then used as is the light picks out shades naturally. I'm with you on applying dirt and wear marks for a realistic look.
I've noticed it too! It almost gives the feeling of painted on shadows (well, it shading of sorts). In my opinion it can turn the model into "anime".
Try Tamiya Metalic Grey as an undercoat instead of black. It's less glaring and looks more natural if it shows through.
@@magnuskallas - Its all about the style you like for your own models, and in fairness, looking at this experiment before it has been finished is a little misleading. Washes and weathering tone all of these stylised effects down and (with luck) all make for a realistic looking model. Appreciate your comments
I was an avid modeller as a kid but looking to return as I approach retirement. Seeing a demo like this does nothing but give me more excitement & enthusiasm for that day to arrive sooner. Very much appreciate the "why's" as you go through the demo, since this gives a glimpse into the depth of experience that guides us. Very grateful for the demo & looking forward to deeper dives as they come up. Thanks
Thanks Dave. Glad to hear the info was helpful. Just be careful when you re enter this amazing hobby not to try to do too much too soon. Focus on the basics and master them.
But mate! Excited we have another modeller coming back home 😎
Thanks for joining the chat 🙏🍻
@@workbenchhobbies4316 No worries. Always happy to give & receive feedback. It all helps.
Have a good one..
You sir are a pro!! Your skills, style, editing etc are top notch! I am getting back into the hobby and you inspire me to be better at this..
That’s such a beautiful msg to receive. Thank you 🙏 it means a lot. Glad you are enjoying the channel 🙌🏼🍻🎄🏆
Fantastic video. This has reinforced what I've always suspected with white primers, black primers, zenithol, etc etc etc: In that its all really down to how you build the layers and then the weathering and detailing on top. I've suspected for a long time where you start isn't nearly as important as where you finish.
Nailed it! All roads lead to Rome! (I think that’s the saying 🤔)
Thanks for joining in 🍺💪🍻
For OD maybe. For bright red or yellow fantasy type m odels the undercoat matters more.
This was a really easy to follow, demo on these techniques! Your videos are excellent and presented in such a logical manner. Thank you!
You're very welcome! Thanks to you 🙏🍻
Hi Dear Friend, I found your channel by coincidence. I'm very happy to did that. There are so much great information for me. It almost like a modeling school. After your videos, i noticed that i have missing information. I will apply this precious knowledge to models which i will make. Thank you so much. With my best wishes, Greetings from Istanbul.
So grateful to have you here with me on the channel. Thank you for connecting. Good luck with the modelling 🍀
I think i produce better results using the black basing, but find the pre shading makes it easier to see the highlights and shadows as you are doing them bc of the stark contrast between your light primer and dark color you are applying. Amazing video on the topic. I know I've said it before but your narrating of the videos is top notch and greatly appreciated.
That means a lot to me. Thank you so much. So pleased you are enjoying the content 🍻🙏☝️😎👌🏼
I do neither. I tend to think in terms of how does a real vehicle paints oxidizes and fade and become stained. And that is from the top surface of the paint and not from underneath or the bottom of the paint. So I start with the new paint surface on a grey primer, then apply what color the real primer was use and then interpret the fading, oxidation etc, using mostly pastels, and some other types of washes. The problem I see using different layers of paint, especially acrylics ( which I have generally stopped using ) is, you can sometimes see the "layer" where it was applied to. Giving a sort of "stepped" painted surface. Which for my liking is too unnatural looking. Another thing I personally won't do, is the white squiggly lines on "each" separate panel. Since oxidation does not oxidize differently on each individual panel. And when accompanied or separated by a heavy and wide dark panel line, also doesn't look natural. If you took this same 1/35 model and up scaled it to 1:1, could you imagine how humongous this line would be.
Note, this is no grip against those who black base or pre-shade. No, to each there own. It is just "my" thoughts on and why I personally do neither of them. The number one thing in modeling ( for me ) is do your own thing ( think out of the box ) and enjoy what you do and be happy with what you do.
Appreciate your thoughts. Thanks for joining the conversation. Hope you are enjoying the channel 🍻🙏
Very good stuff! I wasn’t looking for a vid on preshading but do intend to give the technique a try for the first time soon on a model. By lucky chance UA-cam recommended this vid while I was searching for something else!
Your tutorial was very clear and well explained. Thank you very much. I feel less scared about giving preshading a go now.
Man I love getting comments like this. Love it when people try new things after watching!! Good luck with it. 🍀🏆
Interesting take on Black basing. This is different to what I have seen done before. The method I have seen and use is to paint the black primer, then coat in random shapes in a lighter colour (such as yellow under green, or white under grey). Then the final colour coat is sprayed thinly over the squiggles so that they show though to give that mottled appearance. Your method gives a different effect, although similar with the variation in the paint colour from the "squiggles".
I would suggest what you are referring to is a combination of/ variation of the two techniques. It’s really all about the result, and what you are explaining would give some amazing tones and variation. I think we sometimes get caught up in ‘labels and terms’. I just tried to keep it simple. There’s more that one way to skin a cat 🐱
Appreciate your comments. 😊😎🍀
Have to agree with Nimrod I've not seen black basing described with this technique.
Labels and terms are there for a reason
. Thanks for joining in
what a brilliant video, one of the best ive seen so far regarding modulation for a beginner like me, many thanks for your time and effort 👍
Many thanks for the view. Hope you are enjoying the channel 🙏
I'm a fantasy painter that recently moved to military vehicles (Imperial Guard 40k) and I'm still treating the tanks like organic creatures. In the sense that I apply a flat basecoat and then start soft shading the darker recesses by hand. I find it more satisfying than when I use my airbrush.
Hey Trazynn. This hobby is all about finding the techniques and styles that bring you the most joy and using them. For me using the airbrush tops that list but I understand that’s not for everyone.
Finding joy in our hobby is what it’s all about 🙏
Thanks for sharing your thoughts 💭 🏆🙌🏼👍🍻😎
@@workbenchhobbies4316 excellent point. Many times people get into the 'this is best' method of thinking, and there's many options available. Pick what works for you. Advocating for it is good too, as it introduces others to it. I use a mix of hand brush and airbrush, and penciling techniques as well to get what I want. The individual projects dictate which route I go, based on my preferences and experiences.
The best way to find what works for you is to grab something and try it!
Absolutely!
Very nice use of a ‘yellow green’ airbrushed filter over the olive drab. I would normally use an oil filter of similar colour applied using an old fashioned hairy stick. Having now viewed your tutorial, that may well change! Regarding pre-shading versus black basing, the latter wins for me. I prefer the subtle effects that can be achieved using that technique.👍😎
The yellow green is a handy trick isn’t it. Works beautifully over Russian armour too. Thanks for joining in 🍀
I am glad you mentioned that figure painters are the ones to use black basing first in this hobby. Some people rush to pick a term to "invent" a technique, often it exists in real life already in the hobby. We don't all have to be famous ;-)
Another great video Clayton - keep them coming!
😂😂 question is what can I lay claim to 🤔
Well we can accidentally discover it ourselves. First time I experimented with I had never heard anyone else doing it. I am certainly no super genius of the modeling world so I would suggest millions of model builders over the years 'discovered' this technique by themselves.
@@glenchapman3899Totally agree. I’ve lots of little techniques I thought were original but found out later they were nothing of the sort. I use black undercoat on figures quite a lot. I first read about the technique in an early issue of Miniature Wargames but it was for micro tanks. I transferred the technique to figures and thought I was a genius!
I think the black basing evolved from what is called the "Spanish Style" or "Spanish School" approach to figure painting.
I liked and subscribed! Your narration is excellent, and the pace of your video is perfect. I'm very much looking forward to watching your other (and future) videos. Also, I'm very impressed that you seem to take time to respond to almost every comment!! I wish there were more UA-camrs like you.
Hey Mark. I was thinking of messing with you and not responding but I couldn’t do it 😆😆 Seriously though, I can’t begin to tell you how appreciative I am to receive a message like this. You are the reason I’m going to keep pushing these out! So thanks to you. It means a great deal to me. 🙏🏆☝️🍀🤩
Fun experiment and great tutorial. Thanks!
My absolute pleasure. Thanks for taking the time to comment 🍻
First time viewer - nice demo! I’ve tried both and I prefer the black base method on armor and pre-shading on aircraft. I’ve also done post-shading on both types of models, where I lay down a solid base coat of olive drab, for example, followed by darkened and lightened layers.
Nice! So glad you’ve found the channel. I like the sound of treating armour and aircraft differently…and come to think of it I’d probably take that approach too. Maybe the armour subjects can handle those deeper and more contrasted tones 🤔
Hope to see you on the channel again soon 🙏🏆💪☝️
Thank you for this video and experiment. I basically always black base but with every new model I agonize over the question if I should change it up and pre shade. Now that I know the outcome is not that different I know I don’t need to worry so much about it.
My pleasure. Glad you enjoyed it. You shall agonise no longer 😉
Welcome to the channel 🍻🙏🍀🏆
Liked and subscribed. Thank you for a no nonsense and informative video. Excellent work.
Thanks to you! Welcome aboard 👌🏼☝️😎🏆🤩
Although I have a few years experience at building, painting and scratch building models, I have been away from the hobby for a few years. Now that I am retired I have four kits to motivate me to get back into the hobby.
Great video, just subscribed!
Great news! Thanks for your sub and welcome back to the greatest hobby in the world! 🙏🍺😉
Clayton, I am so glad that you did this right now. Perfect timing for me, I was trying to decide which of the two techniques to use for an IDF super sherman. And after seeing your work, I’m going to try black basing for the first time. I really want a mottled varied approach so I’m gonna give it a shot. Thank you so much for doing this. It is so helpful. Well produced video super clear and I’m glad I started following you after hearing you on the On The Bench podcast.
Hey Martin. Great to see you here on the channel and I’m so grateful you’ve connected and are finding the content helpful 🤩🤩. Can’t wait to see your results! 🍀🍻
Thanks, I’ll keep you posted 👍🏾
Great video Clayton. I’m r recently gone to a combination of both methods. Black base, exaggerated mottled surface, then pre-shading with both freehand airbrush, spatter masks and sponge-applied acrylics. I think there is a place for inks too, which I might explore in my next project. Love the cat hahaha
Hey buddy. Thanks for your kind words mate. Will have to try and catch up for a beer in the new year. 🍻
Another great video. Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching! 👀 I couldn’t make them without you guys 🙏
Great video! clear and very well explained.
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it 👍🍺
Really interesting video, I have started black basing lately because its easier to get shadow but happy to see that the painted surface was very similar on top
Thanks for joining in Gerry. Glad you enjoyed the video 💪☝️
Good comparison effort: both techniques have a place in the hobby, and both need practice and judgement to make best use of the results.
Keep up the good work with these kind of educational videos
Thanks Jamie. Glad to hear it was helpful ☝️🍻
Another fantastic video !!! Thanks
Thanks Frank. So encouraging to see people enjoying the content and adding some value. ☝️🤩
I use both technics. Black base for armour and pre shadding for planes.
I think that’s it…. Certain techniques work better than others depending on the desired outcome. Thanks for sharing your experiences ✅🏆🍺🙏
Thank you for sharing how to use thinner to help colors and color build up. These techniques really help a person who really wants to get into model building and have excellent results to encourage more building.
Since this presentation is extremely informative, I was wondering if you already have a video that shares a beginner's guild for equipment? If not, please make one!
Thank you again
Thanks for your kind words. No, I don’t have that video…yet….but will add it to the list. One thing I would say though, is if you are starting out try and get the basics down pat before trying these techniques. Start with a nice, clean spray job. Once you have mastered that then look to extend the skills and try something like this.
Really appreciate your comments 🙏🥂🍺🍻
Appreciate this comparison video. I started with the pre-shading technique but moved on to the post-shading technique which I like much more as I can control the highlights and darker areas with shades rather than black and white. As you've said, regardless of technique, thinning is the most important part of the layering technique so you get smooth transitions in color and avoid tide marks.
Post-shading is by far one of my most favourite things to do! I love it 😍
Thanks for your comments 🙏
Most interesting video, I normally use a black or dark primer coat.
Seems it all in the amount of thinners you use in the following top coat.Thanks for posting .
Thinning ratios and the opacity vs translucence of the paint is one of the most important things to mastery with paint. Most people don’t thin their paint nearly enough.
Thanks for joining in 😎🍺💪☝️
For the pre shade you can work hi-lights with a warm white or very light warm grey BEFORE laying your color down thinly. Saves having to mix in high and low tones. Keeping the intended color more tightly constrained with less mixing variation.
Yeh for sure. Many different techniques and variations on the concept. Appreciate you taking the time to comment 🙏🍺
Great video! I am planning on tackling a Star Wars AT-ST (black series scale) soon and was going to use marbling as my main technique. This method is essentially the same idea and helps to broaden my understanding of the method as a whole. You deserve more subs bro, so here's another one coming at you! 😀
Hey Matt. Thanks for your support 🍻 I’ve built that At-st. You’re going to love it! That mono-tone scheme is perfect to play with some shading.
Good luck with the project! I’m sure it’s going to be amazing! 🍻☝️🏆🍀🍺🤞
Here's a trick I used to do when painting miniatures. I'd do a base / primer of Tamiya Metallic Grey, then paint the base color over it rather thinly. It created a very natural looking weathering.
Very interesting 🤔 I’ll have to give it a try. Thanks for joining in 🏆🍺
Great tutorial Clayton! I have been using the ‘pre-shade’ method on my models with varying success, and mainly because I am not a confident airbrush user (yet). The subtle lightening of panels and other areas of the model after the main colour is laid down, is still an issue for me. However, I think that this ‘post-shading’ method is the way to go, and I have a test subject that I use to practice on. It is an old Tamiya Tiger that was one of my first attempts at building and weathering a kit, but it was a bit of a disaster. It used to live in the ‘cupboard of shame’ until I found a new use for it.
I use it now when I want try something new, or to improve my skill at different techniques that I am unfamiliar with, and I have to say it has helped me a lot. I am now trying out lacquer paints, and I have just about conquered the thinning ratio and air pressure issues, and my ‘post-shading has improved in leaps and bounds.
I would like to thank you for the great content on your channel, and the way you present your projects and tutorials. It really helps improve the experience of modelling, even for an old bloke like me. Cheers for now😊!
Congratulations on:
1. ‘Yet’ - love that language! This is why your modelling is on the up!
2. You have a paint mule! Everyone should have an old kit to try stuff on
3. You’re willing to try new things
So pleased to have you as part of this community Gary. Thanks again for connecting 🙏🍻🍀🏆
@@workbenchhobbies4316
Hi Clayton. I never thought of calling my test tank a ‘mule’ but the name has now stuck. Although, I have to say that if it was a real mule, it would never put up with the tortures I put it through. It is so beat up and ugly now, that when I want to experiment, I have to fight it to bring it out into the light. All good fun!
I usually black base and I have used the yellow green in my lightening of the OD .. I also use the dark yellow and desert yellow along with deck tan and buff.. it just varies the colour a little more. One thing to always think about (and I have gotten caught more than once) it to go lighter .. all the weathering can really darken your colour much more than you wanted. Great tutorial.
💯! I always paint light and weather dark. It’s a balancing act isn’t it!
Really appreciate you joining on the conversation 🙏
I remember back in the mist of time using pastels to post shade worked a treat I don't think there is a right or wrong way .it's your model so do what you fancy lol
Absolutely. There are many ways to achieve a result, so do what works for you. I’m just trying to share techniques and ideas in the hope people can try them at home and get more joy from their own modelling journey.
Appreciate your comments 🙏🍻
Really cool and helpful. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
this was really interesting! thanks!
Thanks Glenn. Appreciate you being part of the community 🙏🍻
When I turned 18 I went from enamel paints on Airfix Napoleonic's with no primer to 25 mm metal Napoleonic's, Minifigs I think, with acrylics. The metals with acrylics definitely needed a primer and I used white to begin with, but this gave me a blisteringly bright finish. So, following a tip from a gamer magazine, I went black. As you noted, red and yellow on black is a nightmare and I started using a mid brown on the black and then red. The results were great and the black took away that super brightness. By the way, the Airfix soldiers still hold their paint and that is since the mid 70's. Since then my best results with pre shading come with the use of Contrast paints on the models I paint.
Fantastic! I think most of us have gone down a similar path with mini figs. I used to love the D&D stuff..purely for the sculpting, and yes, learned so much trying to paint them.
Thanks for connecting here on the channel. I appreciate it 👋👍💪☝️
Hi Clayton
Just working back through my playlists lol😊
A very interesting technique comparison!
There are so so many variations of painting techniques out there to help confuse the average person and it was cool to watch you doing both on the same subject.
Great work mate and I hope you guys didn’t get too much sand in your drinks whilst at Byron Bay 😂
Thanks Michael. You’re 100% on the money. So many techniques and variations on techniques. Hope I didn’t confuse the situation !
And no…the drinks didn’t last long enough to get any sand in them 🫣😉
That was a excellent tutorial, I am not a great painter, but I tend to use grey with black shading, I have tried using Tamiya acrylic OD but find it too dark, so I use Vallejo US OD, and find it good to use, thanks for sharing, best regardx from a Kiwi living in Melbourne 👌👍👌👍👌👍
I think it looks too dark too but lightening it with the deck tan seems to work a treat! Thanks again for joining in 😉😎
Great tutorial! Thanks for posting.
Glad it was helpful! Appreciate your comments 🙏🍺
this is GOLD content
Thanks mate. Truly appreciated 🏆☝️
You can also add Flesh to OD to lighten it up. I picked up that trick from a fellow UA-camr .
For sure. The yellow in the flesh adds some warmth. Many ways to achieve interesting times. Appreciate your comments 🙏
I used to do pre-shading a lot and I used to approach it completely differently. I would start with black base, and add two layers of successively lighter paint. I would take into consideration direction of the light, including more pronounced bounce-light. The effect would be a black-gray-white model with all the light information. It not only make painting more consistent between parts and models, but also makes the whole process much faster and accurate. One important thing is I stopped using canned paint long time ago. Using airbrush for the base is much better in most cases.
Cool experiment tho. I really enjoyed it.
Cheers!
Two more things:
1. controlling contrast in pre-shade is super important.
2. If you use preshading you should try to use as few colour layers as possible and they should be as thin as possible.
In the end the results should be the same if put enough work. The biggest advantage of preshading is speed.
Great insight, and yeah, there are plenty of variations on these techniques. Really appreciate your thoughtful comments 🍺🍻💪🙏
when looking at the pics it seems to me the the black base has a little more green shade. Very nice and instructive video :)
Thanks a lot for your efforts and great work for everybody.
Cheers
That ‘greener shade was probably a case of that yellow filter being a little heavier on that side 🤷🏻
Really thankful people are enjoying the content. Appreciate you connecting here 🙏🍀
I mainly build 1/72 aircraft, I've been using both techniques.
I find that black basing on single colour schemes like modern fighters in grey works well for introducing a marbled colour with variation in density of the colour rather than it being a boring grey blob.
I find Pre-shading tends to work well on multi-coloured camo schemes like WW2 RAF subjects.
I have utilised both techniques on multiple aircraft and subjects and I like aspects of both, I don't think one is better than the other and the outcomes are both pleasing to the eye when done well.
However in the armour scheme you present here I prefer the pre-shading side.
Horses for courses! Exactly right. Both techniques are valid and work differently depending on what you are painting. Thanks for your thoughts 💭 👌🏼💪🙏
Very interesting exercise!
Glad you enjoyed. Was fun huh?
@@workbenchhobbies4316 and formative.
Learning is fun! (Bender Rodríguez)
@@diegoferreiro9478 😆 nice!
I like doing multi basing. Like black basing, but base color is dependent on final color. Pink for reds, tan or mustard for yellows and lighter greens and so on. For doing highlights and squiggles, use multiple warm and cold colors to add variation.
For sure! You can have a lot of fun playing with shades and tones. Particularly effective on monotone schemes.
Thanks so much for joining in 🙏🤩🍻💪
Does pre shading work with multi colour camofluages? I feel as though multiple colours can hide the shading underneath
Well it certainly complicates the process. I’d usually create variation in camouflage schemes with post shading rather than trying preshade…but like with anything it depends on the actual scheme you are trying to paint. Great question too btw. Hope that helps 🙏
@@workbenchhobbies4316 could I try masking off Camo areas first then painting the rest??
Possibly... but I think Id be more inclined to forget the pre-shade and use a post-shading technique to created variation and shadows. But like with anything in this hobby...give your idea a try! You might unlock something really special!
I have to use purely water based paints as here in the UK we get ripped buying Tamiya paint because stores only stock the tiny 10ml bottles. The water based paints are very good at basic coverage but not thinning out and shading. You can't use alcohol or the paint goes mad in the airbrush.Years ago the larger bottles were available that's changed my first paint choice.
I used to use acrylics all the time and you can get some really good results with them. Just takes a bit of practice.
Which brand are you using? Whatever the answer though I’d strongly advise to use a thinner or flow improver of the same brand until you got a feel for how the paint was working. You should be able to get reasonably fine lines and shades using acrylic paints. Just keep at it 👍💪💪
use black base then drybrush or 'pre shade with airgun) white over it to pick out the raised surfaces then when you paint it its naturaly lighter on raised bits gives very fast contrast can do faces ext with a single wash if you get drybrush of white right
Thanks for your comments. Yep…lots of different ways you can tackle the shading. Will have to give it a try. Hope you have been enjoying the channel 🍻☝️💪
I'm too cheap to get an airbrush, although I *do* want one. I get my tank shading effects by painting the model a slightly lighter green than I want and then a very brisk and coarse drybrush of silver, followed by a generous black wash. This brings the green to the right tone. Next I do a coarse drybrush in O Drab to sharpen the shadow effect. Then a drybrush in Chromate Green(aka Interior Green) on the corners and edges for highlight. Finally, I apply the decals followed by some understated weathering with drybrushed tan along the upperworks and brown down in the suspension.
Hey ! If you works for you and you are happy then that’s awesome 🙌🏼
For me though I get most of my joy from using the airbrush. I just couldn’t imagine my modelling life without it.
Really appreciate you joining in the conversation 🍀🍻🙏
@@workbenchhobbies4316 I may get an airbrush before I turn 70. Then the real fun begins!
@@Boppinabe 😝 Love it! live on the edge!
Personally I prefer blackbasing as it also takes less time and effort,but it can leave unnatural shadows.Everyone does as they Like,and great video explaining it.
It really comes down to the colours you intend to paint over the top. It won’t work for everything but it will work for most things…Thanks for your comments 😎🤩
As someone who is new, I appreciate the video. Really informative. I am subscribing.
Edit: 7:58, how heavily thinned this was? Ratio wise?
Welcome aboard! Re the thinning…that was for the yellow filter so was about 90% thinner 10% paint. Maybe even less paint than that. Is a tint rather than a colour going down.
Appreciate you joining in. Thank you 🙏🏆🙌🏼☝️🍺
Thank you very much for your research. I'd say the black-based side suits more for "worn" \ "aged" effect, not for newly produced tank from factory. Also, you can easily add more shades along with highlights - it's not prohibited :)
Hey 👋 For sure. Modelling isn’t ever a one size fits all and each subject needs to be considered as to how we will approach it. It’s one of the things I enjoy the most. That planning and execution phase.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🙏💪🍺
@@workbenchhobbies4316Forgot to say that I really appreciate that you've mentioned paints IDs, mixing ratios and pressure used for painting. That's an extra work that really helps to reproduce similar conditions when learning from your video.
Great stuff. Glad these videos are helping others. Thanks again for being part of the community 🫡
Great video. I always suspected minimal difference if any at all.
Well…now it’s confirmed ✅ 😉
Appreciate your comments 🍻🙏
MY opinion is: No preshading...no black basing. Just postshading on camo.
I think it depends on the model and the colour you are painting, but I completely agree re the post-shade! It’s one of my most favourite things to do!
Thanks for connecting ☝️🍻😎
I think a great follow-on video would be if you put the effects up against a very different technique like oil paint rendering or against a really old-school technique like what would have been the main-stream thinking back 40 or 50 years ago.
Great suggestion! I’ll jot it in the note pad to look at down the track at some point. So many things to do with so little time 🙄
Pre-shading and then I apply the dry brush technique. More simple, not so uniform finish and thus, more realistic in my opinion. Then apply pastel colours for rust and dirty areas.
Sounds good. I’ll have to try it out. Thanks for joining in 💪☝️🍺
Very informative video. I'm starting back into the hobby after 40+ years and trying to learn newer techniques. How would you lighten a black vehicle? I am currently working on a vietnam era gun truck that was painted solid black. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Welcome back to the hobby 😊 you won’t be disappointed!
Black can be a tricky colour to execute and there are a lot of variables when trying to answer than question (like your skills, your tools, your paints etc)
If it was me I’d be thinking in terms of greys rather than a deep black. Remember as modellers we are trying to create artificial shadows and highlights. Your shadowed areas would be the blacks and your highlights would be dark greys. Make sense?
I’ve actually been thinking about doing a video around something similar…just need to find some time.
Hope that helps 🤔🙄😉🍀🍻
Thank you so much. I tried on a scrap panel base black , layered a dark grey base in a mottled pattern like you used then a lighter grey in vertical lines, now I just need to take the shine off the white decals. Again, thank you. It's folks like you who keep people interested in the hobby.
Very enjoyable!
Many thanks!
I think we are seeing 6 of one and a half dozen of another. so then the question is what comes next? Color Modulation? Zenthail lighting vs. Panel highlighting? I hear arguments that some of these are "just so unrealistic" but at the same time they often look the best. I think there is still a lot to explore.
Yep. Agree. There’s not much in it and as much as I dislike structured zenithal lighting it can look great sometimes.
So many techniques to explore and do little time 🕰️ 😩
Appreciate your thoughts 🙏💪🍻✅
got a question from a really niche place for you! Do you have any notes on preserving/creating texture? The the light denting of homogenous/cast steel works wonders and its always a shame to have to fill them with paint. I try to bring this sort of textured look in the prepping stages working on certain gunpla - I sometimes sit and think funny things to myself like "how would these metals react to hardness tests?" and "Zeon suits should look like John Deere."
Hello - and thanks for the question. Firstly...if there is texture present on the moulding of the kit and when you paint it is filling that in then I would suggest you are dumping far too much paint onto the model. You should be able to maintain even the finest of detail in the model. Perhaps consider thinning you paint further and trying to build it up in multiple thin coats rather than one big dump.
Second - Im always considering texture and trying to reconcile my builds with real life reference...so you are not alone there. Maybe have a look at my recent T34 video - ua-cam.com/video/maJXwKnN9Cc/v-deo.html - I apply some texturing effects to the turret prior to painting. That could be a cool thing to do on your Gunpla builds ? A point of difference ?
Thanks for joining in. Appreciate you being part of the community 🙏
Excellent and extremely helpful video. As for preference, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you used less paint using the pre-shaded method as compared to the black base. For reasons of economy and detail retention, if my assumption is correct, I would prefer pre-shading. I work primarily in 1:72 scale, as a little goes a long way in that scale.
Yes, slightly different spraying technique on the pre-shade which in turn would use slightly less paint…in theory at least. But in terms of how much you’d save that would be very difficult to quantify. Minuscule amount I’d imagine.
Great observation though. Thanks for joining the conversation 🏆🍻☝️🙏
Hello, I am not very experieced with airbrushing, looking for advice on some basic issues I have recently encoutered. Why the paint in your airbrush have so many bubles? Is it normal? Sometimes I have the same situation. How to prevent it? Cheers, Greg
Hey Greg. Must admit when editing the video I was surprised by the bubbles too. Usually that would happen if there was an obstruction in the nossle or possibly an air leak somewhere. One of the silicone seals on my airbrush perished a while ago and I couldn’t get a replacement so used the closest one I could find from the hardware store. It could be a result of that not fitting as well as it should. Doesn’t affect my spraying though.
If it’s happening to you I’d break the airbrush down, clean it thoroughly and check all your seals. Hopefully that solves your problem.
Thanks for joining in. ✅👌🏼😎🍻🙏
@@workbenchhobbies4316 Thank you very much for such a detailed explanation. I will pay more attention while cleaning the gear next time. I have to admit I was very impressed by your movie. Such a practical knowledge about painting is very welcomed, especially for people, who are looking how to improve their skills. I hope we will see more in future. Good luck. Greg
@@grzegorz2688 - Its people like you and comments like this that give me the energy to make them... so thanks to you. Its a lot of work but it is really satisfying to know Im adding some value to the hobby :)
Would love to see black basing vs post shading
I love post shading so much. Will definitely do something around that technique.
Thanks for your comments 🍻🙏
Very nice stuff. Currently in the market for my first airbrush, will definitly be subbing and studying your techniques. Any tips on a good brush to go for?
Being it’s your first airbrush I’d be mindful not to spend too much. A good tool generally helps achieve superior results but as you are just starting make your mistakes with something that won’t matter so much. Keep in mind you’ll need a compressor too.
No need to go finer than 0.3mm. That is a good general purpose airbrush. Make sure you get dual action. Not single. Hope that helps 💪🙏
@@workbenchhobbies4316 very much so, thank you! I was thinking of aiming for something middle of the road price and quality wise as I know I’ll be getting plenty of use out of it, but I don’t really know how big the difference is between quality ranges. And of course, I’ve done enough research to at least know what O need for a working setup, just the details are never made fully clear on a google search… I’ll note your advice!
🍀
I own that Sherman but I have guys and a MG on the top for it
Hey 👋 thanks for sharing. I think a lot of us have owned this kit over the years 😊
So what you building next ?🤔
I think for a lot of us that it comes down to habit...Once you get one right and how you like it you tend to stick with it...I black base all my kits these days...altho I actually use Panzer Grey Primer (Vallejo) which is off black...
Think you’ve hit the nail on the head. Humans are creatures of habit aren’t they 🤓.
Appreciate you joining the conversation 🏆
@@workbenchhobbies4316 I was a professional muralist for 25 years working for top end hotels and private houses...We never used black...I had the same tube of black oil paint all that time and honestly I still have the same Winsor & Newton tube today in my paint stash, 35 years old...lol...Since I've retired I've started modelling again and learning to spray...and I still learn something new about paint with every video I watch and every model I render...The day I stop learning how to paint is the day I take up gardening...Thanks for the reply...From the UK
@@lewistaylor1965 - I think everyone has that 35 year old tube of black oil paint in the stash! So glad to have you here on the channel
For me it depends on the color. Darker and more opake paints ill black base, ligher more traslucent ill preshade.
I agree ☝️ Every project is different and there is rarely one try answer. Appreciate you joining in today 🙏🏆🍻
My issue with "pre-shading" is that at the end of the day it's pretty much just a pointless extra step. Black priming is useful for filling in all those nooks and crannies you'll never reach afterwards, so building from there is just fine. For figures I know I'll brush paint I just give a quick zenithal white coat so I could actually get some coverage with brush. With an airbrush it's not a problem.
Thanks for joining in. Not sure I agree with it being pointless because it can work really well…especially with certain colour combinations, but you are right in what you say regarding the recesses being addressed using the black base etc 🍻🙏
Both look amazing...but I do prefer the black base version.
I tend to agree with you…but be mindful that different colours give different results..so like with everything in this hobby there’s no one true answer.
Really appreciate you joining in ☝️🙏🙌🏼🏆🍺
I always thought that black basing was more trying to replicate reality and how those variations and shades build up. Crevices are naturally darker and somewhat hidden from subsequent layers of light (brighter colors), but also will collect dirt (washes) naturally. The mottled method of putting the paint on also emulates how they're painted in real life; with giant spray guns, where they try to be even as possible, but they're limited by the human arm moving the spray around, just like the little spot of the airbrush laying it down. The variation in tones mimics the slight variation in paint wear you get from the slightly uneven application of the paint out of the factory.
Pre-shading, to me, just felt like trying to fake shadows and dirt on top of an already painted model. Sure, you could get it looking good, and even do some things you wouldn't normally see.. but it was al an effort to try and emulate just the look, rather than also emulate the reality of the paint on a real vehicle. This can also be faster, allowing you to sometimes skip steps.. or even slower as you add even more steps to really work up harder.
Sure, there's no wrong way to paint.. just some appeal more than others for certain mindsets, skills or desired outcomes. But I'm also a bit biased in I don't like to build models of... well, models (like replicating a film prop, as is frequently done in the sci-fi genre), but I'm trying to actually replicate a real (or presumably real, in the case of fiction) vehicle. And the best way to really get it feeling real is to emulate how the colors got the way you might see them on a real vehicle. In the end, if you practice them both, I think you'll get more authentic looking results off black basing, where as pre-shading will allow you to push effects further, and give better control over the exaggeration than you could easily get with black basing (since it's trying to replicate reality). Some scales really need the exaggeration to sell the scale, so that could be real helpful there. Otherwise, I try and stick with black basing.
Love the comparison though, helped me see them side by side better and think a little bit about how I paint and why I prefer what I do.
Thanks for your thoughtful feedback. You raise some really great points around the paint fading unevenly.
Glad the video added some value for you and if nothing else reaffirmed that you were happy with the way you approach your paining.
Really appreciate you joining in.
@@workbenchhobbies4316 I'm clearly a bit biased here (and heaping on confirmation bias too), so I should probably be a bit more object; but I do use the pre-shading and post-shading effects quite a bit if I'm painting miniatures or figures. You really need to exaggerate the contrast there and push shadows and highlights hard.. and while black basing can still be helpful, it's not nearly enough. Some artists use a form of it they call 'zenithal highlighting' but it's the same idea. And it still requires additional shading steps (pre-shading and post-shading) to get the model looking nice.
The biggest thing I've learned was how much the scale of the model and type of material being painted really affects which techniques will give you good results. I black-base everything out of habit now, but I have to use pre-shading methods on a lot of things due to the scale, or being very complex figures/miniatures where normal black-basing techniques just aren't enough.
Thanks again for the video. Really got me to think hard about why I use certain techniques and when.. and even gives me some ideas to try out next.
Is there a purpose for leaving the back half of the airbrush handle off? Comfort? Lost it? Weight?
Great question. That end cap limits the amount the trigger can be pulled back, and I find it just gets in the way. Having it off also speeds up the flushing and cleaning process. Hope that helps
@@workbenchhobbies4316 Interesting. I took my needle out once (out the front) for a “Deep cleaning” and it was 99% clean. I rinse and “Back bubble” with Lacquer thinner. I LOVE lacquer thinner!
I remove my needle after every session. Maybe I should do a quick video on that 🤔
Nice experiment! I do have to say that the side you ended up preferring (the "black base") is also the side with more details in the model, e.g. the turret hatch, the hull machine guns, even the tools attached to the hull. To make this experiment more "scientific", you should do this all over again this time switching which side you use each technique with ;) (somewhat joking, but seriously, I'm sure this affected your perception of each technique, and therefore your preference).
Yeah, I thought that myself…but as for doing the experiment again….let me know how you go with that 😂😂
Appreciate your thoughtful comments 🙏🍀
awesome video 🙌
Thank you 🙌
Hello Clayton. With all due respect, I think the result of both finishes being so similar is due to the fact that after you made a great explanation and demonstration of both Black Basing and Pre-Shading, you then applied Post-Shading to both sides with the lightened OD. That unified the finish between both of the sides. Generally, a pure Post-Shaded finish would involve painting both the black shadows over the grey primer and also some intense white highlights before you apply the transparent green; the white areas would (ideally) negate the need to apply Post-Shading afterwards with lightened greens. I say ideally as usually it isn't enough and you still have to apply some Post-Shading...
Now, in doing what you did I think you made an even better point which is that Post-Shading is -- in my opinion -- by far the most important of all these shading techniques as it bumps up the tints of the base colour and makes some punchy highlights which will withstand the later weathering. That generally tones down the finish and darkens it, so adding the highlights is often crucial in avoiding a light sink. Relying purely on Pre-Shading or Black Basing, it can be hard to end up with enough highlights.
Hey Evan - Appreciate your thoughtful comments and you make a good point. I guess when I did the experiment I was wanting to approach it as I would when I paint my models. I was curious as to the effect the black base V Preshade would have on the overall colour and look.. Maybe I should have kept it simple and stuck to the basics.. but where is the fun in that?! :) Thanks again for tuning in. Its appreciated
@@workbenchhobbies4316very good point. Like I said, Post-Shading is definitely what I would focus more on as well, since I feel that I have more control in that stage as I'm directly painting highlights rather than sort of painting around them (or transparently over them to preserve highlights) as you have to with some techniques. Your style is excellent, and you've made a good conclusion that I agree with about both Black Basing and Pre-Shading producing very similar results; they're just the first step in a long process!
Since it's the same modeller aiming broadly at the same outcome, it's perhaps not surprising that both sides turned out very much the same. But thanks for doing the exercise.
Might be interesting to see an exponent of black basing and an exponent of pre-shading using the same paints on the same kit to see what different results they come up with.
Hey Ben, thank you for joining in and sharing your thoughts 😎
I don't Know how it sparked off this video, but this has inspired me to get a model and spend time building it up photoetch and all
Tape off one corner, prime it and pre shade it then tape off another corner before putting the base colors then finally in the final area finish it with weathering and all
That way each corner shows a different part of the process of making the model
Oh! That sounds interesting! Be sure to let me know how you go! Love that idea a lot! 🏆
I’ve always wondered about using black as a base as it sort of kills the fact of light bouncing into the gaps. Using too much black in normal illustration can kill an image. Maybe using a darker top colour or more saturated darker top colour as a base. I’m not sure .. but I always see over the top black lining when this doesn’t happen at real scale. I guess it depends if you are trying to represent the light at scale .. dunno
Hey! Thanks for joining in. I see using the black base more as an insurance policy on a 3D object. Ideally I’d be trying to cover it with the top coat. If I’ve thinned the paint appropriately then the hope would be to keep the coverage minimal in the ‘shaded’ areas and look to build the middle tone colour up just by applying more paint. Hope that makes sense?
I find black basing works better for me, as long as I properly compensate for how it darkens the kit. Its a mistake not to lighten the paint when using this technique. Usually start with black, then shades of grey until I have a black and white shaded model. Then I paint the color on. OTOH pre-shading almost always shows flaws, or disappears.
Hey 👋 It sounds to me like you are using a combination/variation of the two techniques rather than a strictly’black base’. You’ll definitely be getting some interesting and cool shades and variation.
That’s for sharing 💪👍
Excellent!
Glad you liked it! 🍻
I think the pre shading looks more natural and realistic. Also much more straight forward process. Too much black just doesn’t look right.
It’s important to remember these finishes are just the base layer and get toned down during the weathering process. Really appreciate your view And joining in on the conversation 🙏✅😎
Black priming ist my preferred method, because I use Revell Aqua Color to color my models, which tends to run off from the smooth plastic.
Priming is always a good idea but paint shouldn’t run off? Are you spraying or brush painting?
Appreciate your comments ☝️🙏
@@workbenchhobbies4316 Airbrush for the Revell colors. On pure plastic without primer it looks like raindrops on a window.
Sounds to me you might need to look at your thinning ratios. It shouldn’t bead like that I wouldn’t have thought…what are you thinning it with?
@@workbenchhobbies4316 Water from the tap.
I’d say you are thinning it too much or trying to drop too much paint in one go. With acrylic paints you usually have to mist it on in multiple light coats and build your coverage up that way. Although priming is always a good idea with acrylics you don’t have to do it to get the paint to work.
Single-handedly proved that slapchop is BS, well done!
Well…to confess I had to google that term…but now I understand 😆. Like with anything, execution has a huge baring on the outcome, so maybe the ‘slap chop thing might work if the paint was kept to nothing but a glaze 🤷🏻
But thanks for teaching me a new word 🤓 🍀🍻
I find experimenting and screwing up the process invaluable, if you learn its never a loss
I just uploaded a trial paint scheme for a jetski build but never tryed airbrushing at art level
So i map out and intentionally spray pretty random then reverse the same template and dont repeat that an boom worked, go check it out tell me what ya think left tentacle good, right tentacle is the wrong way
Every project is a learning experience ☝️ Great advice there. Shoot me a msg on fb with the video. I’ll take a look
@@workbenchhobbies4316 its on my channel here in shorts "idea for jetski"
Ive now desaturated the right side will reshoot and see if I can match the left if I can then I guess I'll layout the actual idea on the ski
Looks great mate!
@@workbenchhobbies4316 thanks bro refined the process, desaturated, corrected light source angle it's way better now
Think I will move on to the actual project now no point in waisting more paint on a test
Which one is better for camouflage in your opinion
Great question…and it’s actually quite complex. I think the simple answer is they are the same… These techniques tend to shine more on the mono-tone schemes, so if you were painting a subject with camouflage this would really only effect the base layer. When painting camouflage I’d get my variation in those colours using the airbrush to highlight and then oil paints the create my shades.
Hope that helps.
Appreciate your question. Was a goodie! 💪🙏🍀
I always feel like preshading leads to a kind of dreamy visage version of the basic tones while post-shading makes details pop a bit more realistically.
I do love post-shading too. I guess it’s all part of the process and it can be a little misleading just looking at one technique in isolation.
Thanks for your comments. Appreciate you joining in 🙏☝️😎💪
black base looks way more weathered. and the pre shading looks so smooth.
Hey there 👋 It’s important to remember this is just the base layer and layers of weathering will tend to soften the contrast and depth, which is why a lot of people like the black based option. But yep. I agree with you. Pre-shade looks a little smoother.
Appreciate you joining the conversation 🙏🍺💪
Cheers. There's plenty of food for thought there. Once Ive built my Coast Guard helicopter I'm hoping to do some cold war stuff. I'm minded to try and up my airbrushing now.
Go for it Richard! Most of my joy in this hobby comes from the airbrush! I use any excuse to fire it up.💪
Thanks for joining in 🍻☝️🙏
We never did this. We always painted the lightest first then to the darkest. Then we would begin to remove the layers by rubbing the model. The raised areas would rub the most removing the darker tones leaving lighter tones. Of course, you did this with the end result in mind so it wasn't done willy nilly. The dark areas would be the areas that were recessed and hardest to reach so obviously they stayed dark. After that, areas that would receive a lot of foot traffic would be silvered with a dull silver, like the edges of hatch openings, etc. After all that a careful wash, rust, dirt and dust would be carefully applied. We generally avoided building a psychological pretext to the model and the painting as we were not stuffy and arrogant and pretended to be abstractly wise.
Gee…sanding/rubbing the model back sounds fraught with danger! But if it works for you then that’s great.
Not sure if I’m supposed to take offence to the stuffy and arrogant part 🤔
Thanks for joining in 🍺
@@workbenchhobbies4316 We never sanded. And it wasn't dangerous. It worked just fine and every modeler I knew did it this way. The results were outstanding. And we also didn't add any psychological pretext to the model. In fact, our models always won first place awards at the fair and other events we took them to.
Can’t be unhappy with first at the fair! 🤷🏻 Build your models however gives you the most joy and you can’t go wrong 🎉
Disagree This did not start in miniature painting.
I have used this on models back in the 80's. I learned it from my farther having watched him do this on the U-control planes he had been building since his youth.
I would mask off areas to achieve a paneled look on sci-models using a light grey/white primer and a dark contrasting color for the masked area prior to the color coat being sprayed over. This creates a very subtle and subdue look of paneling.
Oh cool! Thanks for sharing. 🙏
As a person that paints portraits, I always wondered with the miniature painting world never looks at the hundreds of years of experience of fine arts. Black as an under layer is almsot never ever used but a strong Umber tone yes. Why? Because it helps to make the layers on top look a bit more warm and human brain tends to find warm subjects more interesting.
Wow! Interesting insight. Thank you for sharing. Maybe I’ll give it a try sometime. Appreciate you connecting here on the channel 🙏☝️💪🏆🍻
Very surprised by how similar they came out. I tend to agree that the black based was slightly better.
Might this be because the "black based" side of the model has more details though? Note it has the turret hatch, the machine gun and the various tools attached to the hull.. while the other side of the model is "plainer". I wonder...
The pre shading / highlight side looked like a quicker method. But the black base side with the random swirl layering method was more interesting. I'm going to give buth methods a go on my next models.
Was a surprise to me too, but different colours and application will give different results, so try be mindful of what you are hoping the model will look like once done and choose the appropriate path.
Thanks for connecting ☝️🙏
I did wonder how much influence that was having myself 🤔
Hearing people are going to try stuff I’m showing really makes the time and effort in putting these videos together worthwhile. Be sure to let me know how you go 🍀
Usually the sun and weather bleaches the colors of armoured vehicles
Yep. That’s why I highlight and desaturate the horizontal surfaces.
Thanks for joining in 👍☝️🏆
Question- why bother prime in grey and then prime again in black?
Good question. Was more about workflow than anything. Was easier to spray the whole model in grey first and the mask and spray the black half. Hope that answers you question 🍺💪🙏
I've never understood this either/or mindset. i often use blackbasing, marbling, preshading, bleaching and post shading all in one build. this whole blackbasing OR preshading thing blows my mind that people can be so one dimensional.
I’ll never deal in absolutes and agree with you. I was just trying to simplify the techniques so people who were unfamiliar with them had a starting point.
Thanks for joining in 💪
@@workbenchhobbies4316 oh i know you were, it wasn't aimed at you, sorry if it sounded that way