Backing it in | EXPLAINED
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
- What is 'Backing it in'? Why does it occur and how is it used? Add me on Instagram: mikeonbikesofficial
I explain how sliding or drifting the rear wheel into a corner occurs during braking, and how it is used in Supermoto and MotoGP respectively.
#Supermoto #MotoGP - Авто та транспорт
I tried this and got skid marks elsewhere ...
Invest in some good diapers m8
brilliant comment😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂 as all of us when we’ve experienced it for the first time
BRO!!!!~! what a comment!
Great, after a few beers I’m gonna try this out on my dad’s full dresser. I’ll let you guys know how it turns out
mofoshizknack send it! 🤣
😂😂😂
🤣😂🤣
7 months, need update😂
@@anamarrazzaq1072 still grounded by dad
This comfort zone has to be learned over time. can't be taught
123 high side
That it does. I like to do this on the Baby Z locking my rear brake but it’s something I’ll be working on for years to come to do with out the rear locked up. It’s super fun on the little bikes to just whip em around haha
@@AILILIEIN420 then you're doing it wrong. the idea here is the rear end is sliding entirely cause of all the weight being on the front tire and slight engine braking, not by using the rear brake. watch the video again cause i misunderstood it the first time i watched it too.
and enough speed, no speed it will never happen
@@0xsergy lol read my comment better. And I have no problem lately slamming down to second from fourth and getting a good slide going into some turns. I’m bigger than the bike I’m learning the skill in but as I said I enjoy sliding in with my rear locked and I’ll continue to get better at purely backing it in.
Like your explanation. I never realized that I did that until I was asked how I did it. You explain in detail what you have to do simultaneously with out thought. Cause when you have to think about it you find yourself in a high side and that's not fun. Liking the how to videos 👍
It's all feel. Once you start going that fast, you'll know what he's talking about.
Yeap
I think anyone who's riding bicycle fast on gravel should actually know this. With enough experience and wanting to go faster, it's just natural. But on a sports bike its needs some theory I supposed. Personally unless you get paid to do it, or are rich then dont even bother lol you can literally wreck on the first try.
Has nothing to do with speed. You Use engine breaking to get the rear wheel around. Then spin it up as you do so. This takes away the Danger of high siding it. As long as you don't let the tire get traction before you shift your weight inside. Then exit the corner in the direction you want. Most get up on the gas tank. Then grip it with their legs. To keep your weight off the rear and from sliding around. Why flat trackers are experts at it.
Yea in my experience when im not thinking my skills are the best. I've been in many sticky situations due to bad road surfaces such as oil on the road and I've never been consciously aware of what i was doing to save my bike. its all natural, like riding a bicycle
You should have mentioned that your really need a slipper clutch to really get a good slide going. Without a slipper the rear starts hopping on a more aggressive slide and it is hard to control your front brake when the whole bike is chattering violently underneath you. Sure, you can slip the clutch manually a little to smooth out the chatter, but you've already got enough thing you're juggling. A slipper clutch on a supermoto is a must.
Good call, slipper clutch is definitely a must.
I disagree. I don't believe that a slipper clutch is a must. I believe that it does relieve you of one more thing to think about while sliding into a turn, but I have raced both with and without a slipper and I find that without, I can control the slide better. Maybe it's just experience, but for sure it's preference, and certainly not a must.
I disagree, a slipper clutch is helpful if you downshift too aggressively, but not required to smoothly slide your motorcycle, you just need to get weight off the rear and balance the forces properly.
@@alexandrehaussmann7251 I regularily back it in on a bike without slipper clutch. It's more important to have a well setup suspension as well as being smooth on the bike. A slipper clutch is meant to prevent/decrease the rear sliding under hard braking because it doesn't really have a benefit but can throw you off and it's one more thing to handle.
exactly thank you, no anti hopping clutch not that simple infact unless you ride the friction point on your clutch on traction point ya dowin jack shit backin it in -.
Best cornering technique ever!! Once you get the hang of it you'll understand. Plus it looks cool AF.
Pulled this off a few times on my Ducati... Accidentally, before I replaced my sloppy worn out shifter linkage. Nothing like getting two downshifts for the price of one!
Thank you for this. I'm gonna start track days soon and I thank you for being one of my coaches. I've learned a lot from you even just by watching your tutorials.
Thanks Sir 🏍️
I have been waiting to have someone to explain this in the simplest way like you did for us street riders who just keep thing how the hell did they do that. Thanks Mike
Thanks, I've been looking this kind of video. Yet there are barely any that explains it very well just like what you did. Cheers...
Thanks!
Best ever description. Thank you.
i just wait every day to this guy posting new content
It always surprises me how similar to cars many of the ideas and concepts are with bikes. I guess it makes sense in the end. The control of both is mostly down to controlling weight transfer in the end. No matter the setup, if you can not get weight transfer right, you are going to have a bad day.
Glad to see someone promoting sliding, in this era of "be clean, don't back in" 💪♥️
Little correction I believe - sumos slide more because of lesser corner radius....less corner - more oversteer for same exit direction
Very interesting indeed, brilliant
Thanks Mike! I really am enjoying your videos!
I do it naturally and lately wondered why I pull the clutch on the exit, now I get it :)
Great video mate!
Enjoy the beautiful bike life 🙌
Uhm... I’d be afraid of slingshotting myself over a high-side launch!!!!
YTjndallas Yeah you’ve got to C O M M I T to it. Happened a few times when my bike was having problems and double downshifting on me, and I always figured just keeping the front end pointed where I wanna go and staying on it was the best option. If I’d of panicked and layed off it I probably would’ve ate it.
I've highsided 10 times - kawasaki ninja 300 - Me purposely flicking the bike into a slide instead of going fast enough to warrant backing it in.
Just don't let the rear wheel go perpendicular to the direction you're going. (don't go soo sideways that, your bike is moving full sideways)
But, that will never happen if you back it in properly anyway - by going into a corner too fast - the slide that occurs, is a natural byproduct of braking, downshifting and slipping the clutch a bit too late. The back tyre will never come around so much that you will highside.
in a nutshell - backing it in is dramatic engine braking.
Practice sliding in a straight line - when I first started I was going 80km/h 50mph, shifting into first gear and slipping the clutch and applying brake gently.
It was only when I got too cocky/complacent that I started flicking the bike into a slide at low speed and started flying off the bike.
@@mattk9438 i've personally found with low speed slides, 90 degree ones or so, on pavement you have to be nearly touching the ground when you stop otherwise you're gonna go over the other side. i stopped with a 90 deg going 50 kmh a few weeks ago and it required me to literally almost low side the bike just to get a reaction that wasn't a highside when the rear end caught, the rear end came around on me more than i was planning on. i prefer to keep it on dirt tbh, just hurts so much less lol.
I want to chime in that i think practicing this is an open parking lot can be helpful. I used to do this on my drz years ago on 50/50 tires on an S model. The first time i went to the track i tried to force it into the corners because it just looks cool. It is true that it comes with speed, you don't need to force it. but playing around with the motions and getting the muscle memory of downshifting 2 or 3 gears while dealing with body position, rear brake control, front brake control, clutch etc. This can be helpful to do in a situation where you are focused on track run off or other riders .
Chris Walker used to do this in the 90's during bsb. He would shred his rear tyre, something from his dirt bike days. Great to watch especially the chicane at Thruxton. Up the inside of the conventional racers, square the corner off and blast up the track.
I always wondered how I am able to slide my bike with abs and slipper clutch :D this video explains it ty
Great episode. Can you do an episode on the different types of shifting as in GP shifting and the new shifting system as well as the old paddle shifting thanks
excellent video really like the videos. only thing you miss is the use of the clutch en rear brake while backing it in. with a normal clutch pull it in to grabbing point so the clutch will slip a bit and normally for supermoto and motogp they/we use of a slipperclutch or in other words antihopping clutch like the suter clutch in your fs 450, for the rear break do not stand on the break but just gently touch it with your boot so when you brake hard with your frontbrake and you lowering in gears your wheel has to slow down, if you dont use a slipperclutch or dump the normal clutch instead of slipping it your rear wheel just stops or it will rev so high your valves will shoot out of your engine. so that is why you use the rear break to slow down your rear wheel in combination of a slipping clutch. it is easy to learn with small steps but if you use the rear brake to much or the clutch slips not enough you gonna have skidmarks on your butt. love to race supermoto and love to backing it in, keep up the good work would love to ride in the usa but that ocean is kind of a problem to get my bike there
Dude great work as always
I’m definitely going out to practice.
What an amazing feeling wow
Cool, informative! I've subscribed.
well, finaly i need to subscribe your channel - haven´t watched this video till now; but that doesnt matter - the headline is clear; your voice is so god damn awesone that i just love it !! - and your videos are very very good ; anyway, with my lack of english i just can say: keep going mike! your videos are not only great to watch - they are realy well made and filled with all the information i need ;-)
Its just a pleasure to watch your contributions ; to sum it up: Thanks !!!
Check out MotoGP cornering in slow motion - they slip and slide much more than it seems.
Oversteer is always better than understeer and, as one of the California Superbike School instructors once said, exiting a corner this way you are already correcting everything that can happen.
0:26 I thought he was joking but luckily he had that camera angle to back up his real response
Thank you. Finally I got the best explanation 😊
But if we use regular tires, can we slide smoothly?
Not to try and rain on your parade, this is a style of riding taught in Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist books from years ago. A great pair of books that really help you understand how to steer your bike. That said I'm enjoying your channel.
i like it when somebody solves my confusion.
Backing it in, or rotation to apex, also gives you the potential for a deeper line, later apex, better traction and line on exit, for better acceleration, while keeping the time spent at minimum speed at its shortest.
This way you can brake and accelerate harder, while travel fewer meters, which makes up for the lower minimum speed compared to "wheel in line full radius 250cc GP style" cornering.
I need someone like you to teach me how to race sheeeesh
Good upload👍
I just had a rear tyre slip mid turn on an intersection because of sand. I expected it a bit so I reacted instinctively and somehow saved it. Got to say a 160 rear wheel and a lot heavier bike than before makes you have a lot of time to think. On mopeds or a superbike(road-legal dirtbike) the moment I lost traction I was down like someone kicked me down to the ground. This one was unusually smooth and "slow". I pulled my legs together, tried to balance more towards the front, I think I reduced my gas and countersteered a bit. First time sliding on a supersport. I was wondering how these guys drive around burning their rear wheel on huge displacement bikes without actually crashing...
I've never seen this Channel and it is awesome. Now I'm wondering if my UA-cam channel has too similar of a name
Where can i get that toy supermoto?
and best explanation of backing it in i've seen yet, well done.
Search up “die cast supermoto” and they should pop up, I found the exact one he had for $47~
I'm gonna try this, wish me luck pal.
Saw a stunt rider do this under the trailer of a semi once. Amazing.
Your drone is super fast!
i appreciate the use of fpv footage
He said I shouldn’t try it...
But I just bought an old cheap 1978 cb750 and this looks fun on the WV backroads. 😂
Should you be Rev matching on the down shifts if trying to back it in?
Done this unintentionally a few times fucking around on the street and it always scared the shit out of me but felt cool at the same time. Being able to purposefully pull this off corner after corner is crazy to me.
I've found the rear goes on me and I'm able to back it in only when block downshifting on the nice and shiny renter sumo.
As I'm poor and can't afford a better clutch I get a lot of wheel hop on my personal sumo. That was difficult to get used to. ;(
Great video as always though Mike!
U fail to understand that a slipper clutch is not the clutch body is a system that contains engine breake system either the bike comes with slipper clutch of not u cant retrofit that I don't know where u getting ur info from
@@MrDannycoutin There are after-market slipper clutches for street and dirt bikes. Yoyodyne for example.
dude your camera is awesome
Thanks
Great explanation. Can you please explain how pressing the clutch and reducing the throttle have different effects? Thanks
reducing the throttle causes you to engine brake (slow down), releasing the clutch (while backing it in) stops engine braking (no longer slowing down)
Well, Ive been to the track 5 times until now. I just started this year and directly got into the races. I'm doing this automaticly lol
The front brake is used to unload the back wheel but on wet or gravel its just counter steering a spinning back wheel right. If I think of speedway they dont even have brakes and totally back in..
Yup, not the same technique nor maneuver.
Why do so many say something like, "I can't back it in because I can't turn ABS off."
Because they don't understand that backing it in is done mostly with the front brake and the clutch. They believe they have to lock up the rear wheel with the rear brake.
Well it's true because it causes the ABS unit to allow slip because according to the computers, you're still providing acceleration to the rear wheel while braking.
The ABS unit be like, "whaddo I do now, this guy surely doesn't wanna stop since he's accelerating too...do I let go of the brakes?"
When I try it on my duke 390, a bold message is displayed on the screen that says "ABS Failure" and then either the front lever starts pulsating sooner or the ABS unit just shuts down. But then when I try to do it with the ABS off, no problemo!
@@mcr0741 Exactly! I've tried it on my RC too. The Basic ABS on our bikes are clueless when it comes to this. This is why modern superbikes are having "Cornering ABS" options too which takes lean angles, TPS, amount of compression on the suspensions atm into the equation to decide to weather to kick in abruptly or not. They let you slide but won't let you accidentally lock up.
ABS and Traction Control technologies detect when wheels are spinning at different speeds, or when the wheel speed does not match the calculated speed. As you brake hard (front) on corner entry, rear gets very light, so then dropping gears (engine braking reduces rear wheel spin) coupled with lean will naturally loosen the rear. But the computer detects this because the rear wheel speed is not going to agree with calculated speed (and front wheel speed). So full-on ABS gets in the way. As for using brakes, some riders will tap the rear while hard on the front brake and starting the lean, mainly because modern slipper clutches make it more difficult to loosen the rear on engine-braking alone. But it's not a lock-up, really it takes very little. And if your hard enough on brakes, even with a slipper, it'll step out a bit anyway (just because it gets SO light).
What is the music used towards the end of the video?
Yah..... I totally get the theory. I'm 55 and I certainly don't hold up traffic but Ima have to pass on this one and admire those who can and do. Ain't nobody paying me LOL...
Hey Mike I have a serious question !
Where did you buy supermoto model 😩… i have been searching for it for a long time.
Or did you buy wheels and put them on normal durt bike model ?
Thanks ! Great video btw i have been practicing since then on my Yamaha dt125 supermoto 🖤
I have done this once accidentally when I was too fast going over the traffic light. Pressed the rear brake and suddenly the back end slide a bit. This was on a 150cc bike. Now with 650cc I don't dare to repeat that ever.
I don't know about backing it in but thismorning I backed 1 out, it almost peeled the paint off the walls it smelt so bad.
I want to try this
Will backing it in happen with abs? Or will front brakes start pulsing?
Great videos on such topics that are not commonly covered, but very important for someone who wants to get serious in moto riding.
What tyre pressures are you running on your supermoto? That would be a good topic for new video, just saying. 😏
I run 26 front, 23 rear. I'm following the manufactures recommendations. Always start with that and then go up/down dependent on the temperature when I get in after a sessions.
@@MikeonBikes Thanks!
Can you back it in with abs braking system motorcycle?
I thought only Pro's do this, but I got the hang of it in two days of riding on the Tail of the Dargon .
Sonoma Raceway for the winnnnnn! Are you a local? We are out of Santa Rosa!
Its so fascinating to watch riders with different styles do the same lap times. In motoamerica richie escalante backs his zx6r into every corner, while sean dillan kelly rides smooth sweeping lines on his gsxr 600. And both do the same lap times. Marq Marquez and casey stoner in motogp, as opposed to Yamaha guys like rossi and lorenzo taking wide sweeping conventional lines. There is always more than one way to skin a cat
I think it just happens naturally because of the wider curve in the back wheel versus front wheel
Where did you get that tiny KTM Sumo? I want one too
Is high-siding the result of turning the front wheel too steeply *into* the turn, having it stall, and then catch abruptly when correction lessens the angle of attack?
Simply, rear wheel is sliding sideways, eventually rubber regains grip and doesn't wanna go sideways anymore, the sideways momentum throws everything over the fulcrum point (the point the tire is touching the ground)
Back it out, back it in.
Let me begin.
Rich Monks I came to race, battle me that’s a sin 😁
Jump around!
What bikes are these?
Where can I buy this supermoto?
Just to add, I think "backing it in" is a bit of a misnomer. Good amount of what's happening when you're, "backing it in", is that you are mostly "riding the front tire/end". There a huge demand on that front end from weight transfer, braking and steering. I think more so than the rear end.
I've got burnout lines on my kitchen counter from an rc car:)
Gay
how did you trained it?
Do you have to turn the ABS off?
Sear point Kart track!
Mike, you were going to put together a compilation of your street and race techniques. What happened to that? I would be willing to buy such a thing in CD format.
I am, it's taking time to make and I want it to be really good.
Mike on Bikes ...Thank you. Take your time, winter is coming soon anyway. Hopefully before springtime so I can hone my pitiful skills. It would be nice if it were in some sort of order, for the sporting backroad rider, so that the skills he or she needs to master start at Step 1 and progress from there. Does that make sense?
I'm sure it will be great. 🍻
Mike on Bikes ...I can't remember if you showed 'emergency panic braking'. I practice hard braking every ride, it's predictable tho, but 'panic braking' is difficult. Such as when a deer pops out in front of you. Do I use front brake only?, or combine front rear?...THAT kind of practice drills would be good in your teaching video.
@@blipco5
What is emergency braking?
Stopping in the smallest distance possible while being safe.
So, my practice, is set up a track with tennis ball halves, and have a point in said track, in which you must stop.
Make a line, no braking before hand, and a second line that you must stop in front of.
A forced stopping area.
as your confidence and skill grows,
Slowly increase your speeds, and when ready, decrease stopping area.
Mike, I can't see your reply about your instructional series. UA-cam is messing up. Can you make a video if such a series exists for purchase?
I may not be able to see any responses.
Does backing it in and drifting all the same?
Where did you get the Supermoto toy?
到底反打 打滑時進右彎是打左邊還是右邊……
打滑動態符合正常的逆操舵原理嗎
如果符合的話 打滑時為了不讓他往右過度傾倒 所以是打左邊維持住嗎 求解
I think riders use rear brake a little to control a slide
Sometimes sliding it in is faster and sets you up better for the exit ,you don't need to offset the ballance as speedway don't have brakes .you just need speed,torque and a greasy tyre ,motor gp do slide once they get over hot ,some of the best laps ever have been on greasy tyres on last lap championship races ,most known are rossi (king) or magic riding mick doohan .doohan shows how to slide the brutal nsr 500 with ease . Backing it in was a necessity in old day track bikes ,especially likes of norton commanders where there is hardly any steering from lock to lock so you had to slide it around or face not being able to make the turn
I've got skid marks too... in my undies. 😂
Can you make tutorial n POV?
Isn't this behavior helped by proper suspension setup? I'd guess a soft front bump/ hard rear rebound is desirable.
at 1:10 you can see the rider applying the rear brake, right?
G S Maybe just getting some extra braking in while the rear wheel is still in contact?
More like using engine breaking and less front brake. As it does not upset the bike as much.. Called rear wheel steering. Go watch Simon Grafar in 1998 Donnington Park race. He spun up that rear wheel the whole race. And his rear tire looked new from using less heat. He devastated the Doohan...
I dont understand everything... Do you dont have to brake the back wheel a little bit?
Only front brake and gear down thats all?
Sry for my english
No. Rear wheel will engine brake when you shift to a lower gear and roll off the throttle.
omg i want that toy
Awesome. Thanks. My son has that supermoto toy. I'll try on that then go abuse my ktm. UK
MotoGP bikes don't use the clutch for changing gears, only for 1st gear. They back it in simply by braking hard and downshifting really fast. That's why they can slide so much. In SBK, when they still used the clutch for downshifting, you didn't see a lot of sliding action. It's a really hard and dangerous thing to do using the clutch. Well, not for light bikes like supermoto but certainly for big heavy bikes.
So, drifting basically?
My issues even with zzr race tires I don't trust em to told my 750 gsxr 04-08 era so yeah strips all day
On my ex bike gs500 backing it in is something I did without wanting to do to downshifting too low so yeah irony on that
"Who has skidmarks on their table?"
The cakefarts girl
Damnnn I just leaning something I can’t do this haha
It's true "back it in" will come naturally BUT you should also know that when you successfully slide your rear end your body posture plays a very important role. One must be with the bike and the momentum to prevent high siding idk how to explain it properly and I'm no expert i learn from experience 😂😂😂
"In fact, if you're not naturally backing it into corners, you should not go out and try to do it. It will come with enough speed and hard enough braking" This!!!!
Interesting. Anyone wanting to go fast on a racetrack...should take this information with a large grain of salt (i.e. be very very skeptical). Having raced both road and supermoto. I would agree with one of the comment...backing it in certainly makes it harder to pass you...which seems to come up because you're going slower than I am and you only got past me because you over cooked the corner, slid sideways in front of me, and now I can't pass because you're taking up more space and creating a rolling road block. Looks cool though. Cheers!
Backing it in is advantageous for some corners, others not.
Also an exelent way to high side it an break yourself