My Top 10 Best Battle Scene Writers in the Fantasy Genre! (As of April 2023)

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  • Опубліковано 18 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 114

  • @epiphoney
    @epiphoney Рік тому +13

    It's Punchy Petrik.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      Oh my god I'm saving that name. 🤣

  • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
    @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Рік тому +13

    Fantastic idea for a video, Petrik! You have some excellent picks here that I too admire for their battle scenes. The rest I really need to read!

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      Thank you so much, Philip! These authors knows how to write amazing battle scenes! :)

  • @jones3887
    @jones3887 Рік тому +4

    When talking about Brandon Sanderson and visualization of battle scenes, it made me wonder. Would you consider doing a video ranking top ten books you could visualise the best in your head in general what was happening on the page?

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +2

      That's actually interesting. I never thought of making a top 10 list based on that! Great suggestion! I'll try to make one someday. 😄

  • @Hobbes985
    @Hobbes985 Рік тому +5

    Sword of Kaigen- couldn’t agree more. When I first finished it, I loved it, but didn’t mark it as flawless. But it’s one of those that just sticks in the brain, and the battle scenes are a big part of that. LITERAL “oh, since when did it get dark outside?” intensity. Always love your reviews, Petrik!

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      Thank you so much, Hobbes! Yeah, I remember reading that book. I could not put the second half down. Pretty sure I read them in a day. xD

  • @radiahalsagoff4148
    @radiahalsagoff4148 Рік тому +2

    I've read most of the authors on this list and I agree wholeheartedly with you! Brandon Sanderson, especially - its like you're right there witnessing the battles as they occur.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      Exactly! I like that feeling so much, Radiah. It's like witnessing everything in real time. 😁

  • @LimeymanZero
    @LimeymanZero Рік тому +2

    I've only read Brandon Sanderson, Fonda Lee and Joe Abercrombie from the list and absolutely agree! Especially Abercrombie, "You have to be realistic" and he is, those PoV switches following someone till they die were so good, more of that please! I will have to check the others out soon. I think you could have included a couple of honourable mentions though. Pat Rothfuss for one, Kvothe's training with Tempi, the hunt for the bandits, Tempi's bar fight then training with the Adem were all fantastic and while only the fight with the bandits was a "battle" I think what he did write about fighting was very emotive, technically accurate and memorable. I might also include in my list the battles in Arcane Ascension, the training they do and the fights in the towers are all really well written so you have no trouble at all seeing it in your head like a video game.
    I just got done building my first bookcase, it's close to full and with Threadlight, Child of the Night Guild, the other Secret Project books and whatever I forgot I've bought that isn't here yet still to come I think I need to get another one right away! Thank you for helping me fill it. It's like a tree with a main trunk and smaller branches off the side, got my Dragonsteels on the top self with Green Bone Saga Illumicrate edition on the top left branch and Kingkiller books on the right with my Last Unicorn 1st edition and sexy limited edition with Pat's introduction. Couldn't fit The Way of Kings Dragonsteel on the top shelf unfortunately, so when there are more of those I will probably put them on the next trunk shelf down.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      Glad you agree with some of my choices! I do think Rothfuss has a great skill in writing battle scenes, too. If only there were more of them, I think it would be easy for him and KKC to appear on the list. I love Kvothe's training with Tempi and the hunt for the bandits.
      That bookcase is sounding might fine. If you have the chance to show me your bookshelf on social media somewhere, feel free to show me! Really pleased my recommendation have contributed to your bookshelf building! :D

  • @Haney7
    @Haney7 Рік тому +3

    Nice to see Staveley getting some props. His books were my first fantasy reads!

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      His books are so underrated, imo! :)

  • @thebrothersgwynne
    @thebrothersgwynne Рік тому +9

    Congrats again on 25k subscribers :). Awesome to see Abercrombie, Eames, Cahill and of course Papa Gwynne on here! I need to reads Greenbone Saga, and Ed has been pushing The Sword of Kaigen in my direction for quite a while.
    Will

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +3

      Thank you so much, brothers! Let Papa Gwynne know about it. I hope he's doing well. Glad you agree with my pick for Abercrombie, Eames, Cahill! :)

  • @RosLanta
    @RosLanta Рік тому +3

    The first series which came to my mind for fantastical battle scenes was Codex Alera by Jim Butcher. I adore his battle sequences (which become increasingly large parts of the books as the series continues) and they're heavily fantastical. Even the fortifications are built using the elemental furycraft.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +2

      I've read only two books in the series. I liked his battles in general, though. Highly enjoyed Dresden Files series!

    • @MargueriteKrux2
      @MargueriteKrux2 Рік тому +2

      @RosLanta Totally agree with you

  • @historymax5479
    @historymax5479 Рік тому +3

    My top battle writers:
    Brandon Sanderson (Seriously, the guy's a genius at writing action)
    Jim Butcher (Battle Ground was something else)
    John Gwynne (GWYNNARDOS!)
    Robert Jackson Bennett & Sam Sykes (Pure madness and mayhem. Impossible to pick who writes the crazier battles)
    Will Wight (I binged Cradle and never got bored with the fights, they're so good)

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      I haven't read anything by Sam Sykes yet, but I agree that the rest you mentioned are pretty amazing! :)

  • @markymarkeaton
    @markymarkeaton Рік тому +2

    This is a great idea for a video outside of the normal top 10s that we see from booktubers! (Favorite books of whatever genre, series, etc.)

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      Thank you, Mark! Haha, I thought I might as well try something a bit different. Hopefully it will prove useful in the future! :D

  • @laurahihaha
    @laurahihaha Рік тому +2

    I loved this video! Thanks for not making them spoilery (this is why ur my fav fantasy book influencer! you get it!!!) That way I can could enjoy it and look forward to the fight scenes!

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      Thank you, Laura! Haha, you're welcome. It did get difficult talking about these without spoilers, but in the end, what matters more is the reader's enjoyment! :)

    • @laurahihaha
      @laurahihaha Рік тому +1

      @@PetrikLeo You rock! Thank you thank you again :))
      (If I may put a request into the 🗳 box!- I would love ur take on ur top 10 best romantic couples written by writers in the fantasy genre as of *May (or so on) 2023! Cheers again :D)

  • @jamesmccullough1162
    @jamesmccullough1162 Рік тому +7

    I love that Ken Liu kind of replaced the magic in his books with all of the inventions and ingenuity, but it still has a similar effect that magic does! He was not a first-thought author for a video like this, but after thinking about your explanation (and reading Speaking Bones right now), I totally agree! A very different, but crazy awesome battle writer. Great video, Petrik!

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      Thank you so much, James! That's the thing. Even though they are all technologies and inventions, they worked as "magic" in our usual fantasy. It's absolutely brilliant! :)

  • @obidadeborah4196
    @obidadeborah4196 Рік тому +1

    I've read all the books/series you mentioned apart from Ken Liu and Ryan Cahil’s books which I'm adding to my tbr.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      Time to read them, Deborah! Ken Liu's books have the advantage of being completed already, too! :)

  • @ZackArgyleAuthor
    @ZackArgyleAuthor Рік тому +1

    I agree with every one of these. Pleasantly surprised to see Staveley and Cahill on there, who I think are both phenomenal at writing battle scenes!

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      Thanks, Zack! Both Ryan and Staveley deserves more recognitions! 😄

  • @dpeady78
    @dpeady78 Рік тому +1

    Battles require overall geography as well the physical movements of the characters we are reading about.
    Cahill and Gwynne are really good at this.

  • @Heathennation1976
    @Heathennation1976 10 місяців тому +1

    You might in this video just convinced me finally to read the Green Bone Saga I have book 1 in my library I think I might pick it up sometime in the next coming months

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  10 місяців тому

      Oh my god yes do it man! It's absolutely AMAZING! :)

  • @jeremyfee
    @jeremyfee Рік тому +1

    This is a great, inspirational collection. I haven't read all of them, but of the ones I have, I certainly agree with you. Thank you.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      You're welcome. Thanks for the kind words, too. May you find thrill reading the rest! :)

  • @thedrownedkingdomsaga7847
    @thedrownedkingdomsaga7847 Рік тому +5

    Love this video Petrik! Amazing picks ! For me, I'd also add Evan Winter, Anna Smith Spark, Bernard Cornwell, and Janny Wurts for writing battle scenes that are not only cinematic but for the tension and angst built up and the weight of emotional impact in the aftermath.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      Thank you so much! Evan Winter almost made it to the list. Very close. Bernarn Cornwell is not here because he's a historical fiction author. I still need to read Wars of Light and Shadow, though! :)

    • @thedrownedkingdomsaga7847
      @thedrownedkingdomsaga7847 Рік тому

      No doubt you've heard of the Warlord Chronicles by Cornwell? That's Arthurian legend. Some consider it straight up fantasy, some consider it historical fantasy, guess it depends on your perspective on Arthurian legend! Anyway your list was great, and glad to hear Winter was considered too!

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      @@thedrownedkingdomsaga7847 I read Warlord Chronicles 5 years ago and loved it. But the thing about including Cornwell, it will spark other questions on why no other his fic authors like Iggulden and Steven Pressfield are included.

    • @thedrownedkingdomsaga7847
      @thedrownedkingdomsaga7847 Рік тому

      @@PetrikLeo definitely agree, that's an excellent point!

  • @earendil6708
    @earendil6708 Рік тому +1

    Appreciate this video 🙏🏼

  • @book_scent
    @book_scent Рік тому +1

    This is a fantastic list!! And what a great video idea, Petrik 😃 Staveley, Wang, Cahill, Sanderson and Gwynne are some of my favorite authors as well, I just love their immersive writing. 🙌 I definitely need to finally read Abercrombie, Erikson and Liu - hoping to get to one of them this year 😅🤞

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      Thank you so much, Karin! Glad you agree on the ones you've read. I think you'll love Abercrombie, Erikson, and Liu's books, too! :D

  • @ronaldwatson3862
    @ronaldwatson3862 Рік тому +1

    Great video as always, Petrik!
    Agree with M.L. Wang for her emotional battles, John Gwynne for his brutal realism, and Brandon Sanderson for his infusion of magic for sure.
    I haven't read anything by Nicholas Eames, Brian Staveley, Ryan Cahill or Steven Erikson yet - will have to try them out over the next few years. Malazan is especially intimidating to get started.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      Thank you so much, Ronald! Glad you agree with my picks for Wang, Gwynne, and Sanderson. I think there's a good chance you'll love the ones you haven't read, too! :D

  • @fjuran1
    @fjuran1 Рік тому +1

    Great group of writers and battle scenes that I have certainly read on their pages. Another writer that immediately came to mind, is Brian Lee Durfee, the entire second half of his third book was a battle, went for 400 pages. I couldn't catch my breath.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      Durfee is awesome! Almost made it to the top 10. If it's top 15, he'll definitely be there!

  • @giancarlopavan7938
    @giancarlopavan7938 Рік тому +1

    Awesome video! Grace of kings is already on my TBR but now I’m adding Staveley! Only two series I haven’t read from the list. Thanks Petrik!

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      You're welcome!! Staveley is great at writing battles. And you know my thoughts on Ken Liu's books. I hope you'll enjoy them all! :)

  • @MargueriteKrux2
    @MargueriteKrux2 Рік тому +1

    Ryan Cahill❤ his series propelled into my top 10 fantasy series and i can't wait for his next book

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      He's a new and rising author, no doubt about that! :D

  • @hungryberry2754
    @hungryberry2754 Рік тому +3

    Love the video! I am currently reading Deadhouse Gates, the battle scene with the Coltaine and Kamist Reloe towards the middle of the book was jaw dropping. Erickson did a really good job illustrating the violence of war while keeping the event sequence engaging all while mixing the magic of Warrens beautifully together! Keep up the great work! :)

    • @DanExploresBooks
      @DanExploresBooks Рік тому +1

      You ain't seen nothing yet.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      Thank you so much! Believe me, the best is yet to come! :)

    • @hungryberry2754
      @hungryberry2754 Рік тому +1

      @@DanExploresBooks Eek! That makes me excited! Can't wait to venture out more into the Malazan world.

    • @hungryberry2754
      @hungryberry2754 Рік тому +1

      @@PetrikLeo Can't wait to continue along the Malazan journey! Super excited!

  • @esmayrosalyne
    @esmayrosalyne Рік тому +1

    Such a great video, I loved hearing why you picked all these authors!! Totally agree with everything you said about Ken Liu and Fonda Lee, they are the underdogs of battle scene writers imo!!
    And Staveley definitely deserves more love, especially for The Empire's Ruin! I can't wait to re-read that once we get more news about book 2!!
    Thanks for sharing this awesome list 🤩

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      Thank you so much, my friend! Glad you agree with my picks for Ken Liu and Fonda Lee. Staveley deserves so much more recognition. I will be rereading Empire's Ruin when book 2 comes out! :)

  • @safinan8008
    @safinan8008 Рік тому +1

    Happy reading to you.. always great videos from you!! 🎥📖

  • @soab24
    @soab24 Рік тому +1

    Sanderson would not have come to my mind first but you're absolutely right. He may not paint the most "impressionist" picture with this prose, but instead he creates a crystal clear high end budget movie in your head!

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      Exactly. I feel like it's so easy for me to enter the situation of the characters because his prose caused that! :D

  • @archlectoryarvi2873
    @archlectoryarvi2873 Рік тому +1

    Would love to add Matthew stover(Acts of Caine) and Jonathan French(The Grey Bastards).
    They're both really good at writing battles that are as brutal and sickening as they come while still somehow being immensely entertaining.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      Great mentiosn! I was VERY close to adding Matthew Stover! The actions I read in Heroes Die was brutally good. I need to read the rest of Acts of Caine first though. Same goes for The Lot Lands by Jonathan French!

    • @archlectoryarvi2873
      @archlectoryarvi2873 Рік тому +1

      @@PetrikLeo just note that the sequels to Heroes Die are very.... different books. They're still good in my opinion but the action gets dialed down significantly and exploration of metaphysical themes gets taken to 11.
      The Lot Lands trilogy on the other hand just got more action-packed with each book. Book 3 has a "paladin" scene that I'm not going to forget anytime soon.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      @@archlectoryarvi2873 that's the thing. I put down the 2nd book for now. It's too different from Heroes Die. Not sure I was in the right mood for it. 😅

  • @Heathennation1976
    @Heathennation1976 Рік тому +1

    Pretty awesome list glad somebody finally gave Brian Stavelley some recognition I've read the original first trilogy also have skullsworn and the other one you were talking about on my shelf I try to tell people about Brian and his writing there are few issues with the pacing but overall it's a solid trilogy I haven't read the green bone Saga by Fonda Lee I have the first book in my library it'll more likely be started sometime this year I'm reading The Lonesome crown and last night I started Seeds of War by Joao Silva I couldn't stop reading it when I received it in my Kindle last night pretty interesting book good enough to where It pulled me away from Reading another book so now it looks like I'm reading two books at once we all do that sometimes don't we LOL anyway my ramblings been long enough, keep up the great work another awesome video by the best booktuber on UA-cam

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      Thank you so much! Imo, Staveley deserves more recognition than what he has received on booktube. I need to get around to Seeds of War, too. I just got the book. And yes, you should continue The Green Bone Saga! :D

  • @s.p.8508
    @s.p.8508 Рік тому +2

    My favorite battle scene writer is definitely John Gwynne. No contest. Although I haven’t read many of the other guys that you’ve mentioned so…

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      He's certainly one of the best of all time, imo! :)

  • @walking_luggage8105
    @walking_luggage8105 Рік тому +1

    Have you read Ian C Esslemont's Path to Ascendancy series? It is the prequel to Erikson's Malazan books. In the first book, Dancer's Lament, there is a rooftop fight scene where Dancer dueled an assassin. I swear that is the best fight scene I have ever read in any book.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      I tried Path to Ascendancy, but I just can't gel with Esslemont's writing. I don't know why. I'll probably try his books again, but not anytime soon. :(

  • @muhammedshibin621
    @muhammedshibin621 Рік тому +1

    I havent read anything other than Brandon Sanderson and Fonda Lee from this list.
    When it comes to one on one fight.
    Kelsier vs Steel Inquisititor is my all time favorite but his battle sequences feels repetitive ( i have only read the way of kings and loved it ).
    George RR Martin has to be my favorite when it comes to battle sequence, especially Battle of blackwater, it felt like i was in the middle of battle and chaos.
    2.)Robert Jordan but i am on his fifth book and i know there is a big battle in the end, i am sure he will be in the top.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      Kelsier vs Steel Inquisitor is great but nothing compared to the duel in Words of Radiance, imo. I feel like for GRRM and Robert Jordan, their battles (though pretty good) tend to end quicker than I liked especially when we put their scope into consideration.

  • @brentasmith
    @brentasmith Рік тому +1

    Don't know if you have read it, but R. Scott Bakker in the Second Apocalypse probably tops my personal list.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      I haven't! I will be reading Bakker's books for the first time this year. So excited! 😁

  • @reaper2r
    @reaper2r Рік тому +2

    🎉Abercrombie is a genius🎉

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      Can't disagree with that! 😄

  • @callinicobo5991
    @callinicobo5991 Рік тому +1

    One of the best in battle scenes I've red is Harry Turtledove in the Videssos cycle

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      I need to read his books! I haven't read any yet.

  • @dereksmith4509
    @dereksmith4509 Рік тому +1

    I'm not going to comment on good vs. bad, best vs. favorite, I will just say that I agree with MOST of your list here, but I really think Glen Cook's Battle Scenes should be here...

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      Thank you, Derek! I liked Glen Cook's battle scenes. I can't count him among my favorites, though. Woodring Stover, however, I would! :D

    • @dereksmith4509
      @dereksmith4509 Рік тому +1

      @@PetrikLeo Nice! Although I think Cook and Erikson shine on the large scale epic battles, whereas Stover is just a fucking master on the personal/tactical level.

  • @BrianBell7
    @BrianBell7 Рік тому +2

    I have no idea how Brian Lee Durfee didn’t make this list. Same for Bernard Cornwell (unless historical fiction doesn’t count). But man, Brian Lee Durfee is the epitome of epic combat.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +2

      I know! As I said, Brian Lee Durfee would've been on this list if it's a top 15 video. It's not easy making this list, I can't imagine any of these authors not appearing on my top 10, too. Cornwell is not here only because he writes historical fiction, but if I start including him, then I will have to include other historical fiction authors like Conn Iggulden, Steven Pressfield, and Christian/Miles Cameron, too.

    • @BrianBell7
      @BrianBell7 Рік тому +2

      @@PetrikLeo you make great content Petrik! I’m always excited when you drop a new video 💯👏🔥

  • @jordendarrett1725
    @jordendarrett1725 Рік тому +1

    Mistborn had many amazing action sequences, but which do you think has better fights, era 1 or 2? I recall liking the characters more in era 2 but as far as fights go I think I’d have to give it to era 1

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      For fights? Mistborn era 1 is much better than era 2. Lost Metal came close to the fights in era 1, though. :)

    • @jordendarrett1725
      @jordendarrett1725 Рік тому +1

      @@PetrikLeo haven’t read the lost metal yet, that will come when I get to my Sanderson binge…whenever that will be

  • @paulelliott3220
    @paulelliott3220 Рік тому +2

    David Gemmell
    Sword drop

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      Nice. Sword drop!

    • @paulelliott3220
      @paulelliott3220 Рік тому +1

      @@PetrikLeo maybe should have been an Axe drop but went with the former
      Great channel btw

  • @edsheeran1243
    @edsheeran1243 Рік тому +2

    Christopher Ruocchio

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      Will be reading his books this year!

  • @Walpurgis117
    @Walpurgis117 Рік тому +1

    You previously said that Gwynne and Abercrombie are your top 2 for battle scenes. Is that still true?

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +2

      Top 2 for battle scenes with no magic involved. Still true to this day!

  • @dhianouioui
    @dhianouioui Рік тому +2

    what about George R R Martin?

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      The first time I read A Song of Ice and Fire, I found his political intrigues and dialogues to be much more superior to his battle scenes. No idea on reread!

  • @burton1ify
    @burton1ify Рік тому +3

    2 words…….. Y'Ghatan

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      God... reading the chapter for the first time exhausted me in the best way.

  • @pollys6192
    @pollys6192 Рік тому +1

    My favourite battle ever is the one at Helm's Deep by Tolkien (in "The Two Towers") all of the battles that came after that one wouldn't exist without that one in my opinion. So you can tell how important that one was.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      Almost everything in Lord of the Rings remains some of the most important scenes crafted, in my opinion. But yeah, I think these authors are better than Tolkien when it comes to writing battle scenes. Controversial I know. xD

  • @s.p.8508
    @s.p.8508 Рік тому +1

    I’m halfway through The Sword Defiant, so far it’s really really annoying. The chapters from the main perspective are good, but anything other than that is just boring and a chore to read imo. Really hope it gets better.

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      Oh no!! I'm looking forward to reading that. I do hope it gets better for you! :)

  • @whitneyleigh7463
    @whitneyleigh7463 Рік тому

    Any battle scene list that omits Richard Morgan can't be taken seriously

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому +1

      Okay, Richard Morgan fans. :D

  • @neiltaylor513
    @neiltaylor513 Рік тому

    Again a big failing as with many UA-cam book reviewers, the seemingly non-existence of books written before 2010

    • @PetrikLeo
      @PetrikLeo  Рік тому

      Maybe I just didn't like them enough? I liked Tolkien, Glen Cook, Raymond E. Feist (for examples) but don't consider them as favorite battle scenes writer. Also, just because this video doesn't have them (it does; Abercrombie & Sanderson debuted in 2006, Erikson's GotM debuted in 1999) doesn't mean I or other booktubers don't talk about them at all. I talked about Riftwar Empire trilogy and Memory Sorrow and Thorn (lately as I'm reading through it) many times.