This channel is pure gold, the videos are so interesting, you explain amazingly well, and its so relaxing to see and hear them, definitely one of the best drum channels
Absolutely. I’m happy that I found this Chanel! I already got some answers for problems I hat for a couple of years without finding solutions. Dank you so much and please keep going
I started as a DW endorser back in the early days ('89 or '90). John hadn't started stamping the pitch on shells yet, but he always checked them, and grouped them together so the set of shells would sound good together. Any drummer can "sing" the pitches of his toms, so when I got a new kit, I would pick shells based on my ideal tom pitch. It's super fun.
“things just got weird!” - I love that reaction! I saw on Drummers Review channel that in order to get a total note X, you tune the resonant head 1/2 note lower than X, and the batter head 1 1/2 note (a minor 3rd) lower than the resonant side. That makes sense and I’m sure science can show how that works. But that you dialled in the note of the total mass of the drum just by going for “my typical sound”, that is some Jedi voodoo stuff! Scary!
I like this video. I tell people all the time...."don't worry about the actual pitch, just tune the damn drum to sound great and whatever that pitch ends up being is what it is".
Sounds Like a Drum! Thank you very much to contribute to the drumming industry. I find it very valuable to educate us, the drummers and drum builders! You are a huge step to the real point that most of the people and drum builders (also most of the big brands) don't realize. Drums are one of the most complex acoustic phenomena among the instruments. I am the founder of small drum building workshop in Europe, the Manic drum company. One of my priorities or desires is to come as close to what is considered as the ultimate acoustic instrument (drum). All the violin players, scientists and string builders know very well what the ultimate sound is among violins. It is definitely the Stradivarius. So what is so amazing at Stradivarius violins? It is the amplified specter of frequencies that are pleasant for most of the living beings on Earth. We call this specter "warmth". The "warmth" is most desirable characteristics among all the instruments. What is "warmth"? The warmth is specific range of frequency specter that is more amplified compared to the rest. It is louder or amplified specter of low and middle frequencies (from ca. 100Hz-1000Hz). To achieve this specter, it takes really good understanding of acoustics. The lack of this understanding and knowledge results in what the market offers these days and also very little awareness among users (musicians-drummers). Could you ever tell me what the best snare drum sound is? I doubt, but string players and string builders can tell you about the Stradivarius sound! Now lets get to the point;) What big brands and their "scientists" always try to brain wash you is that "the harder the wood, more vibration you get"! So they are trying to teach you that most vibrating drum is the best drum!?!? Yes, but in what specter? Do you want bright, ear piercing, cold tone? I am going to tell you what conditions are necessary to achieve great vibrating in warmth specter (talking about shell construction). It is the combination of low density shell material and high speed of the sound traveling thru it. We all know that harder (more dense) material in general allows higher sound speed. So what is "resonant wood"? It is a rare find among the soft woods (spruce - soft low density wood) that allows higher speed of the sound and the result is high elasticity (only here we are talking about vibrations in "warm" specter). We have made about 100 video hours of scientifically proven experiments on this subject. We will publish them in a few years and some more experiments in different fields. Lets move on... At one point of your really helpful video you became confused. It is because of the third most brutal obstacle. It is the resonant head. It makes all the scientists we have worked with in the past very unsure how to approach. There are three most important factors when talking about the vibration and resonance of drums. 1. batter head, 2. resonant head (it gets quite easy without it), 3. the cavity of the shell. The fourth fact is also important before you start with experiments. It is the way the shell is vibrating really. To make it really simple, 99% of musical instruments need some kind of resonant body that will amplify the initial excitement. SO FORGET EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE LEARNED AND REMEMBER!!!! THE MOST IMPORTANT SOUND CHARACTER COMES FROM BATTER DRUM HEAD, AMPLIFIED BY THE SHELL. THE RESONANT HEAD JUST MAKES EVERYTHING MORE COMPLICATED FROM ACOUSTICS VIEW. The rest like shell thickness, hardware weigth, bearing edges, shell finish and the rest of the subjects that are mostly discussed on forums, makes only about 5% of the drum sound. It is the cream on the top but 95% tells you to think beyond. One very important thing to remember is that the shell as the shape (body) vibrates in the way that it visually produces flower-like-shape when watched from above. So the most important for drum builders should be to learn how to build the shell that vibrates between the lugs. 10 lugs, ten "flower leafs", each between lugs. Lugs should be zero vibration spots in fundamental frequency;) However, there are multi-direction vibrations in overtones, by the way;) Finally, to conclude your experiment. To be able to find what you are looking for it to calculate next. - Calculate the fundamental frequency of the drum with all the hardware and drum heads, - After you find the fundamental frequency, you will be able to calculate all harmonics (overtones), - Tune the heads so that wave length from batter to resonant drum head matches the distance from batter to resonance head length. You can also use 1/4 or 3/4 the wave length - You will come close to "resonance" of the whole body. - I am sorry, you aren't even close to optimal acoustic solution of a drum acoustics with my experiment, but it is a good starting point. Sorry for my English! Peace everyone! Sounds Like a Drum, I am so glad that you are taking a drum technology and acoustics to much higher level than most here on YT.
I thought about this before, you made me save some time thankfully! Your own lower tuning sounded so much better. Thanks for this great video as usual!
Great videos guys, Cody, gonna throw a random comment your way. You speak so well man, doesn't sound scripted but also you don't fumble your words. Makes for really easy watching and listening. AWESOME STUFF GUYS!
This might be my favourite episode so far, thanks for doing this. There is no question that DW makes great stuff, but they are also really, really good at creating a want for their stuff. I used to work at a venue that had an early Collector's kit in the backline. It sounded great at gigs and like utter shit at every open jam.
true indeed. that maybe sets the difference between musicians and music/equipment fans. it depends on what kind of relationship you actually wanna have with your passion. . . and i really think it's all good as long as you feel well with it. i know a few guys out there which are no musicians at all, but they got a pair of sticks, a cymbal stand and they actually buy a few cymbals every month, just to explore the sound and the complexity of the instruments. it's crazy bcause i didn't even notice that such kind of sound connoiseurs even exist. but it's great. and it's the same with the bonham, ludwig, dw or and what ever fans which admire the whole spectrum of fascination around the whole experience. it's all great. and even greater is that every new generation got his own taste, depends their own teenager youth musical experience. 80's and 90's gave birth to a lot of tama and yamaha guys. the millenium generation came thru with ocdp, dw and a the new custom wave . . . and so on . . . all great. pretty nice stuff greets
The 90’s dW kits shells were all made by Keller , which is what you get when you get a custom kit 9/10 times, after dW started making they’re own shells the sound changed to a tubby low booming sound much different than the explosive sound of the Keller’s, to this day Keller shells always worth a lot and when dw cashed in , while certainly beautiful,they couldn’t get the same effect with their shells this is why custom kits sound so great , truth ocp , SJC, etc are all Keller’s shells class dismissed lol 😂
Facts, DW is incredible at marketing their stuff. I've worked with all sorts of drums over the years on the retail side of things Collector's series kits actually sound like trash and incredibly difficult to get a good sound with. The cross grain X plies and all that make the drums very difficult and actually hinder the sound. I've heard stories where one time DW tried to do a comparison video between their different lines and it was funny cause all the artists thought the designer series sounded much better than the collector's so they had to scrap the project.
I love your channel! You have the best tuning advice, explaining every aspect while giving examples of over and under tuning. Sounds like a drum, is my favorite drum related channel on UA-cam!
Watched a video where John Good tuned Cobus's drums. He'd get everything in tune with itself, then thump the shell and tune to that note. So it had hardware, hoops, and heads on there. So that MAY just check out.
I would like to see a video comparing maple, to poplar, ash, bubinga, etc. There are a lot of combinations, but some sort of basic comparison. I have basically felt that I am a novice, and should not exclusively demand maple, because I don't know the difference between one or the other yet. Maybe only compare woods for starters.
@@SoundsLikeADrum This would be great content. There is a lack of A:B testing for drums. Also for other variables: bearing edges, shell depth, number of lugs, etc. Loved the rims episode comparison.
Diameter and depth of the drum, type of drum heads, and the tuning of the drum heads all effect the sound far more than what type of wood the shells are made of. Poplar was a very popular wood to use by drum manufacturers prior to the 1970s because of how cheap it is to buy in bulk. Hard to find poplar drums today outside of entry level kits because the misconstrued belief (mostly due to marketing) that it is an inferior wood.
Or the brand...the bearing edges...the heads...the color of the rug the drums were set upon...Seeing a trend here? Without side by side comparison, it's more of a question of "does it sound good in that particular musical context or not?"
Great video. I own 2 custom-ordered DW kits and they always sound fantastic and i didn't buy them for the pitched shell thing. I bought my first one because one of my drummer friend had one and they were the best sounding drums i'd ever heard. Along with their incredible sound, DW was also the only company that could make me a set of drums in the sizes and colors that i wanted. I actually don't use the pitch that each drum is tuned to. I just use my ears, experience and personal tricks to achieve what i consider to be the best sounding drums I've ever heard. I've used other brands for rental kits or house kits and with my tuning tricks, i got pretty much all of them to sound very good; depending on the quality of the skins. Basically, any brand that has good heads on them will sound good. Thanks for posting.
The marketing department of DW wishes the first half of this video didn't exist, and wants to use the second half for their next advertising campaign! :) Alot of work must have went into tuning for this video... thank you for saving us the time to investigate! This is interesting results because it seems to show empirically that tuning for a pleasing tone is optimal for resonance comparing to hitting specific frequencies or tension settings, as recommended by tuning companies like DrumDial and Drumtune Pro. Which also happens to be exactly what I'm experimenting with now on an old Rogers kit.
I once when tuning my bass drum ( 18"deep X 22"diameter) pin stripe batter ebony ambassador resso, just messing around I tuned the batter head higher and higher while keeping the reason head at the pitch where the drum resonated when I would hum said pitch close to the shell. The drum got higher and higher then suddenly I crossed some kind of line a d the pitch of the drum dropped lower than I had ever heard it while the note not sounding like punching a garbage bag. And the resonance of the bass drum was likelihood expect from a Tom! After all your bass drum is just a really big Tom laying on its side. Only muffling I used was a felt strip inside both front and batter heads off center by the width of my hand. Having done this, my bass drums have sounded HUGE ever since!
Gonna try this. To recap: Hum notes high and low near the drum until you find what makes it resonate. Tune reso head to said pitch. Tighten the batter until it oddly sounds lower than it did looser. Thanks
Super interesting, and your laughter is contagious - it really resonates at this end too, or maybe I'm just tuned right! I'm learning so much every time I watch your videos, thank you so much!
So I'm apparently late to the party here (by about 4 years according to youtube), but I just now found this video and the series. These videos are great! I started digging these up because I'm looking to re-head my new set but didn't want to spend a ton of money buying every type of head just to see which setup and tuning works the best. This video in particular is an experiment I had meant to do myself but hadn't gotten to yet. The results you got are so very interesting! Great stuff!
As a drummer relearning drumming I enjoy this channel very much. Haven't played since 1976 but just got a Yamaha kit pretty cheap and have started playing again.
THANK YOU! You just saved me a lot of annoying time spent removing hardware and fussing with tuners to check out whether there’s a reason to tune to a shell’s pitch. After your experiment I see absolutely NO reason to bother.
Very cool. A much deeper philosophy into drum tuning. I'm just about ready to re-tune my kit. So, I've been researching videos on the great ways to tune drum sets. This video is a keeper. Thank you for your insight. Cheers
Sounds about right to me! I interned at a studio where the head engineer was a crazy drum tuner and he told me the same thing! Tune the reso a tone lower than your desired pitch and the batter 3 semitones below the reso note. Works for me every time!
Very cool video. am a DW fan which people say a lot about the note stamp . Now I have a little more info on that thank you . Having said all that tune to ear and tune often.
I own a dw kit from the year 2000. It was build long before they start to do their ssc concept. What the timbre matching, as John Good calls it, does is, that they are able to build a drum kit where every shell matches perfectly to each other, tonally. That´s all! It does not mean, that you have to tune your tom at this pitch. DW does this process after cuting the edge and before they drill the holes for the hardware. And it´s no surprice that the pitch of the shell will change after it´s finished. But the drum kit will sounds still perfect in it´s self. Much more influence on the tone has the ssc process and the grain orientation thing, they do now for a few years. I have allways tuned my kit for what I was going to do with it. Sometime it was a rock sound, sometimes Jazz or whatever. Every tuning worked! But thank you for testing that! It was a great pleasure to watch! All the best from Germany, Jürgen
Thanks for watching! We're aware of the "timbre matching" that DW does, though that's not what was being addressed in this video. Instead, we were experimenting the tuning process that John Good teaches (ua-cam.com/video/yl9wgXSfxew/v-deo.html) where you tune the resonant head to the resonant pitch of the drum shell. -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum Oh then I have not gotten that. But I also know this video and teh concept. I think you can do that. But I have not used this tuning method at all. I`ve tryed it a few times but the result was not for me. I tune my toms in intervals (mostly fiths an fourths) with little adjustments, so it sounds good to me. I can not remember how my kit sounded out of the box. But the tuning will not be the same as the note that is printed in it, in my humble opinion. Or it will happen accidentally, as you´ve experienced. All the best, Jürgen
Cory, You said it so very Welll at 10:00, "Before You Go Down That Rabbit Hole"... I'm in the Tom Drum Tuning Rabbit Hole. I'm a Newbie with respect to Drum Tuning. I'm a resurrected Drummer at 70 YO, who plays solely for Pleasure and a retirement Hobby, to My Music about 1 hour a day. I knew NOTHING of this back in the late 60s, when ni began to play drums (with HS Buddies in a Garage Band). Last year I upgraded and bought a Used PDP Concept Maple 6 piece drum Kit. The Cheapo Gammon Beginner kit that My wife gave me for Xmas in 2018 was gifted to my 4 year old Grandson. Tuning is elusive to me. I replaced the batter heads to Evans G2s coated per the drum store advice as a good head for Maple drums. I just can't get to that "sweet" spot of Doooo, Dooooo with very little overtones. I hate that overtone ringing/ buzzing. I've tried Remo Emperor Clears vs. EC2s Clear as well. I've watched CVory's videos, and that of others, and it drives me a little Loopy to get that sound. No Mics, no Compression, no recording, just Playing to my music. I would be so satisfied with the sound that Cory generated at the opening of this video. The Sweet Spot of punchiness, sustain, and little overtoning ringing. Be well all, Happy drumming. Nothwithstanding this frustration (because OCD can be your Worst Enemy), I am very Glad to have picked Drummking afain after 50 Years !. And the beat Goes On.
I liked your approach to the topic. I think it's good to find things out by oneself. If it works as stated, fine. In the end, we get some kind of knowledge, which we might (or not) end up applying somewhere down the road. Excellent job!!!
I think you pretty much hit the jackpot. We talked about this a little before, and I should have clarified that I was getting my note by leaving the lugs on. It seemed to make the most sense because the mass is going to be there, so you might as well account for it. I actually watched a DW clip the other day and I can confirm that the shell tap was done naked, with holes drilled, right before it hit the hardware mounting station. My approach is to tune the reso to that note, and then adjust the batter head to taste. If you get a weird harmonic, just go a little higher or lower until it phases out. This approach seems to work well on medium shelled drums with no re-rings.
This really confirms mostly what I've always thought! A lot of hype about things that are not really as significant as some would have you believe. More and more I have come to believe that wood types, reinforcing rings(or not), "low mass" hardware, pitch matched shells and all the other selling points that companies spew as better, more pure, more natural, warmer, etc. don't matter as much as the heads, the tuning, the sticks you use and how you hit the drum. More expensive doesn't necessarily mean better sound! Not to be confused with higher quality (fit, finish, hardware materials and assembly processes).
Absolutely agree. As long as a drum is round, has a true bearing edge and is made of a consistent material, it can be made to sound great. The difference between wood types is small to negligible, but bearing edge design and significant shell thickness changes do have more of an effect Imo. Let's face it, the rest is just marketing hype driven by a need to sell drums.
I did watch a comparison between s Chinese set and a dW , while the dW did sound a tiny bit better and more open sounding the difference was very marginal and not good enough to be 10 times as expensive I'm guessing the differences are less marginal between dW cheapest kit and most expensive
i love it so much when you have a passion and you can learn from smart people with a lot of knowledge with the same passion as you do! love your channel and your approach to technical issues you make it easy to understand! 👍🏻
The can is open and the worms are escaping! Now besides all of the woods used, there can be exploration of shell depth, ply count, wrap or stain, etc. This is first real trial I’ve seen, and all drum manufacturers are touting the benefits of their many designs....although resonate pitch and tuning is never mentioned. I’m ready to re-skin my Yamaha’s soon, and I’m always looking for the holy grail.
Crazy stuff! Great information mate. I've never understood the timbre or sonic tone of any wood so I had always tuned my kit to whatever I wanted to hear at the time. Glad to see this video shed some light on tuning.
Epic episode! I have used a method lately to slowly search for the “resonant peak” as in when I hear the most resonance. I have to try this method too, it does make a lot of sense to me, ie how you ended up finding what worked best for you!
I've watched quite a few of your videos, and haven't seen you cover this trick, but when you stripped all the lugs off, then put them back on, you commented on the rattling noise.. when I first started playing drums (feels like 100 years ago, lol) my friend was a full time pro drummer who knew his stuff, he came to my house, we stripped all the hardware off that old set, and all the springs inside the lugs got a thin wrapping of tissue paper... OMG the improvement it made !! it deadened unwanted vibrations, and overtones and made a better, cleaner note, he learned that trick in the studio... ever since then, I've done that with every lug on every drum on every set, which sucks on a 10 or 12 piece kit, yeah, that's the weekend gone, lmao...great videos brother
Thank you for this! As a big DW fan I have always wondered what the actual value of knowing the pitch of the shell provided. I've often thought about this and I wondered if I was getting the most out of my drums. I guess now I can put the issue to rest. Thanks again, this video is great, and so is your channel.
That's pretty freaky Cody but still really cool. Thanks for another great video. I love the channel and it dives into drum science like no other channel that I've found so far
This was so great! Back before drum dials, I would use a crappy keyboard to tune my father's DW's by suggested note. It was impossible. Yeah, somehow I became a drum tech. But, as another commenter mentioned, those shells had a sweet spot. I dodn't like it, nor did my father so we would work around it with different heads and /or tape. Your end result and laugh were stunning! Keep it up guys!
I love all your videos, been binge watching for a while but this one was by far the most interesting (for me anyway) as this thing of tuning a drum to the fundamental note of the shell has always had be intrigued. What I took from it, is that yes, the fundamental note does in fact get the most resonance. But it's not the fundamental of the shell in of itself, but the note of it with the hardware and as you found, that fundamental note is not achieved by tuning the heads to that note but rather how the top and bottom heads interact. (it's a bit of a brain freeze just saying that out loud!) Excellent stuff!!
I usually tune a Tom until it has maximum resonance.....where ever that is in the room that I’m in. A soft knuckle tap on the shell right in the middle is where I always end up finding the best sound in my drum room. On my newest kit I tuned each drum individually until they sounded deep, resonant and fat with a coated Emperor on top and clear Ambassador on bottom. I go set the kit up in different room than usual and they sounded choked and flat. So I loosened each tension rod all the way, and tightened a 1/16 turn above lowest possible tension and I was amazed at the sound I was getting. Top and bottom heads were very close in tension. Bottoms were a touch tighter than batters in the floor toms, rack toms were same tension. The room is just as much a part of the drum sound as the shells and heads. I later realized that the room was boosting the higher frequencies a great deal. So that makes sense that tuning to lowest possible tension gave the best sound.
Definitely a very interesting experiment and result. I tried tuning my toms with a tuner but now I just tune them to what sounds good to me. Which has changed over time as I've developed a better ear and I'm able to work with the resonance better now. When I first started drumming I didn't like to hear my drums "sing". A good test for me is to hit the drum head with varying degrees of force and make sure the sound isn't choked.
I got to tell ya fellows,I love your channel.Ive owned several DW kits and I never tuned them to a note on the shell or to any certain pitch.Ive alway tunned them by ear , what sounds good to me.Always got a lot of complements on my drum sound.Dw use to timber match there shells to make sure they went together.As far as the note never went for that.I will say I own a pearl reference kit,and I tune them as individual drums and they sound amazing. At the end of the day if the drum is round,great bearing edges, straight hoops,and great heads they should sound good.TUNE BY EAR!!!
Thanks so much! Glad you're enjoying it. I can totally understand timbre matching (matching shells based on their overall tonal color and balance of overtones) and maybe even their fundamental resonant pitch (though I don't think this makes a whole lot of difference in the end). Here's the part of the video where John Good himself recommends tuning the reso head to the frequency of the shell: ua-cam.com/video/yl9wgXSfxew/v-deo.html Of course, there's some discrepancy here as you notice from our video since the pitch of the shell with and without hardware varies quite a bit. I'll be curious to chat with John about this...hopefully at NAMM this week! -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum keep doing what your doing Ben,I love how you guys dive in to these products and fully explain the out come. You guys are helping a lot of people in the drumming community. I'm glad to see people like Dw,pearl,tama,and gretsch continue to make improvements over the years,but as we all know that comes with a big price tag on the high end kits.The great thing is it has trickled down on the more affordable kits.Today these young players can buy a beautiful kit for under $1000.00 if they don't get caught up in all the marketing hoopla,!!!Enjoy Namm,wish I was going.Maybe next year.
This is brilliant journalism of the highest standard, thank you. I'd love to see you now bust the birch v maple myth, as my own tests revealed they sounded identical to me and every customer in a shop when comparing Yamaha Absolutes 15 years ago. Not to be greedy, but tests on the impact of shell depths would be fascinating in terms of how much difference it actually makes and how much is just fashion. Thanks again
No Thank U Cody, SLAD & Cadence prds., I've learned so much from ur channel its unreal. I was gettin this "boxy" sound on my snare when I'd put on a new head & tune it up? Cody helped troubleshoot that for me, ntm many other things, thanks again guys
Oohhh I like, Really like that last sound test!! It has the "pitch-bend-fall" (I got from John Good) sound I've come to love when tuning my toms. & btw, Cody & SLAD is the "Best" channel hands down, Absolute Gold, we love ya Cody
In my opinion this Video actually CONFIRMED the scheme of tuning to the pitch of a shell. There seems to be a misconception that if you want a certain pitch, you tune both heads to that pitch. If you want to tune a Tom to a certain pitch, for example a B flat, you would tune the resohead a semitone flat to the desired pitch of the drum (so to an A) and the batterhead 3 semitones lower to the resohead (so to a F sharp). This is exactly what you did! So by tuning it to your taste, you actually tuned the drum to a B flat, the shell's pitch and the result was amazing. A valid point you said is, that adding hardware changes the pitch of the drum. So you can definetely argue if the stamps from DW are helping this method. As far as I know, they pitch match the different shells of a kit so you have certain intervalls when buying a kit. Maybe thats the main reason behind it. A little side note: People seem to be very enthusiastic about the "debunking" of the scheme, since it's seems to be a justification to not spend much money on drums like DW, which I find kind of sad... It doesn't matter if you own a cheap starter Kit or a highend set aslong as you're happy with it. But don't bash drum companies because they charge a decent amount of money for a high-end set which is built in america or germany. People there get paid decent wages. Remember that most kits with a great price/value point are manufactured in china where wages are way lower which keeps the prize down. Anyway, great content as always! This is one of my favorite channels on youtube, a real haven for drum nerds! :) Best wishes from Germany!
Great video man , you’ve educated me on many aspects of tuning ,really love your content I think in the end when you tune to max resonance it will pull that natural note from the drum just maybe a pitch variant but yes Bering edge and head are gonna be the biggest factor in weather a drum sounds good or not with good heads most people couldn’t tell the difference between a 300$ kit and a 3000$ kit , having said this each manufacturer s shells are gonna have they’re own character, example being pearls thick blended and heavy hardwares always make their shells chocked but punchy, vs Keller’s thin plys of any custom set sort of flex more with the pitch bend and it’s more of an exploding attack sound and feel , DW which used to use Keller’s shells but does not anymore are generally thicker plys and heavier hardware so what you get is an open sound with a ton of resonance and presence but because of the heavy construction they have a low thudding as of late lmk your thoughts on this everyone ??
One thing to bear in mind when thinking about specific pitches is the overtone series. As an example, if you tune the drum to a B and it’s too high, try tuning it to a 4th (F#) or 5th (E) below the B. If that’s too low, try a minor third below B. Knowing a tiny bit of music theory really should not be unrealistic for any musician.
great video as always! a good reminder to be wary about marketing gimmicks. that last tuning had quite a nice tone, but would freak out 99% of (live) engineers
Excellent! This approach may work for you. We thought it was a bit high for a 12" tom, particularly if you're tuning for a more modern rock/pop scenario. -Ben
Back in my university days I sang in a choir with a conductor who was really into natural “just” intonation, and adjusting chords to match the overtone series of each tonality. Around the same time, I also got my first DW kit. I landed at the same result, but not by tuning one head to the shell, or going by feel. I assumed that the resonant pitch of the shell was actually the second harmonic (first overtone above the fundamental) based on the mass of the drum. Therefore, if the batter head was tuned a fourth or fifth lower than that, it could create different overtone interactions with the shell. Then I would tune the reso to taste. Having had a few DW kits now, and having given them a tap with “factory tuning” at various shops, it seems like they tune the batter a fourth lower than the marked pitch, and the reso a fifth lower. This hits the second and fifth harmonics giving a big, rich sound.
Hey guys cheers from PARAGUAY like always your videos are great and most important so educational to me i thank you for that but like always said all is in the ears i never use any kind of machine or tuner i just use my ears and give my drums the sound i like abrazos and keep the feeling.
Hi, great channel, very interesting. This video makes me remind the time when I experimented with different tunnings and pitches and all of that, until I decided not to drive me crazy anymore and to tune according to how it sounded right to me for each situation. But it was very interesting and I learnt a lot. By the why, another aspect to keep in mind is the finsh. The more natural, the lower the pitch, as the more plies of paint, wax or lacquer, the higher... and of course wraps as well.
This is pretty much exactly how I tune my toms. Hit the shell with all the hardware on it and tune the heads by ear to match the sound. I picked it up from a recording engineer and thought it was really effective.
This video backs up something I’ve always noticed! I know it sounds super weird, but I’ve always found that tuning the reso head to a semi tone below a desired pitch and the batter to 3 semitones below the pitch of the reso (which is exactly what you did) for some reason yields the desired pitch for me. I’ll have to try tuning to the resonant tones of the shells next time in tune a kit.
So I own a DW Collector's kit that I had made with custom plies etc. and I have tuned the shells to the printed resonant note for recording projects. I wanted max resonance and no bend for that recording, so I tuned the top and bottom heads to the note. I did not use an electronic tuner at the time, but used my ear and a pitch pipe. The drums sounded phenomenal. The resonated wonderfully with a beautiful tone. HOWEVER, these being very high end drums, they have a very wide tuning range and they sound great tuned a lot of different ways, and in a wide range of tunings. I am headed into the studio this weekend and I'm using an electronic tuner this time, and tuning with a tighter batter side for some bend, major thirds, and I'm not tuning to the pitch of the shell, instead I'm tuning using a different low end base for the largest floor tom. Will the drums sound worse? No, they'll just sound different. You don't buy a DW to be locked into specific notes, but having the resonant shell note known does give you an idea of where the sweet spot really is, and therefore what your theoretical tuning range is for that set of toms. My 16 naturally resonates at a D2. I'm starting it at a C2 this weekend. It's going to still sound great. But when I'm calculating out beforehand where I ight want to tune, I know naturally it sits at a D2, and I can see how much range in theory I comfortably have on either side of that. So to me it's a nice useful feature, not just a gimmick.
@@SoundsLikeADrum Like anything, if you introduce any mass, tension, etc to a resonating object, it will resonate at a different frequency. Like you point out in the video, mount the drum using various mounting systems and that will affect resonance further. Now at the factory, in DW's case, that presents them with an option, do you label the drum with the note of the shell by itself, the shell with hardware, the shell mounted, etc etc. They probably choose without because that's the wood shell in its most basic state. They can pitch match shells in sets, and then they mount hardware according to order. It would be exceedingly difficult to pitch match sets AFTER hardware were mounted because when drums are custom ordered, it would mean swapping out hardware on sets until you get to that perfect set. And in reality, while any of these features from all the manufacturers definitely have a marketing component to them, pitch matching from the raw shell is still a nice touch and it gets you a little closer to perfection IMO, while still being factory feasible. With my kit for example, I worked with the DW folks to configure the ply of each drum to zero in on a specific sound, and not all the toms and kicks used the same configuration. My set includes a mix of VLT, VLX, VLX+, and X-shell ply configurations to custom order. The fact that they then go through inventory and pitch match them is pretty impressive. Expecting them to take the specific hardware I ordered and mount them first and THEN pitch match them would be unreasonable, especially when there are going to be other variables after they leave the factory that will be introduced that will further affect the resonant pitch. IMO, it's a base starting point. Tuned to those printed notes the kit sounds fantastic as I said, but that doesn't mean it's better or worse or right or wrong at any other tuning.
But getting back to the basis, the question is at what point and under what circumstance do you consider what the natural resonance point of the shell is? Put heads on it and tension them, from a physics perspective you're not just tightening the head, you're introducing stress/tension on the lugs and that too will change the resonance of the shell itself even if every so slightly. So I do think it's fair to say "were going to declare the pitch of the shell is what it is with nothing added". Now whether that makes the ideal tuning point is up for debate, but as drummers we should always do what sounds best for the application, not necessarily what the factory suggests which is really just a guide.
@@SoundsLikeADrum I mean even if in the perfect unicorn situation you could have a perfectly matched set of toms under the specific head, tension, hardware, mounting etc situation...and I'm talking down to the exact frequency perfect harmony across the board, you're still gonna have an engineer hit that talkback button and be like "hey, can you go ahead and try slapping a moongel on that floor tom for me please? Thanks." LOL ;)
Very cool experiment. Tightening the reso head gave it more sustain. Then, upon your final tune you made the tom sound great. Nice & thick with a perceivable note. Conclusion: your tuning skills are unparalleled. Nice job
Sounds Like A Drum Thx Ben. I’ve been playing for 50 years on many levels with incredible musicians. I continue to learn still every day. Guys like you inspire older guys like me to continue to explore the arts of drumming. Thx brother. Wishing you every blessing. I subscribed. Thx. D
I love this! You looked to science to get your desired result, and failed - ended up going for desired result, just to find science confirming that you were right.
Thanks! And yes/no- we were illustrating that there's an issue with simply referencing the resonant pitch of a naked drum shell as the go-to for tuning. These drums sound great at a range of tunings and one of the most commonly ignored aspects, from a scientific perspective, would be tuning based on the diameter and depth of the shell in order to achieve a standing wave. There's a lot of physics here to unpack. Might just have to produce a few more episodes on the subject! -Ben
Can you imaging a physics hack running the math to substantiate this?... Imagine running the math on all the shell configurations DW has on different shell designs recipes (X, VLT, SLT,etc.)... Each component affecting the shell (and the shell itself) is expressed as a number that is the part of the sum of the tuning of any drum. Fascinating!... Love this video!
I tuned the drums to the shell with all hardware and heads on. (Pearl Maple Custom MMX). Used a soft mallet to hit the shell when it is mounted on the kit including the Pearl Optimount. Than tuned both heads to the pich of the drum. You wil see ...if you have to raise the tuning of the heads ....also the pitch of the shell will rise but .....they will come together once. It is a converging process. Same if you go downwards ...once they will be the same. It did sound OK but you have weird intervals. I also use tuning in chords/tonal ranges like 18=a, 16=c, 14=f, 12=a, 10=c or 16=c, 14=e, 12=g, 10=c or 16=c, 13=g, 12=c 16=c, 13=f, 12=a also experimented with intervals like major thirds 16=c, 14=e, 12=gis, 10=c or fourth 16=c, 14=f, 12=b, 10=e
In Poland drummer Tomasz Łosowski popularized a method to tune the drum to a certain pitch which is to tune the batter lower and bottom higher than the desired pitch. For exsmple to tune the 10inch drum to E you tune the bottom head to F and the batter to B. This method is really popular in Poland.
I've always wanted to perform this experiment, but never got around to it. About fifteen years ago, I hand-made my own drum set and placed the lugs at the nodal point (22% of the depth of the drum), which, in theory, is friendly to the free resonance of the shell. Well, I've been playing this set for a long, long time, and by now, I've come to the opinion that the more the shell vibrates, the more it will generate overtones conflicting with the combined tuned pitch of the heads. If drummers actually liked overtones, moongels and dampening rings wouldn't sell as well as they do. Conclusion: Forget the esoteric physics and just tune the heads the way they sound best to your ear and don't worry about the pitch at which your shells vibrate when the lugs, tension-rods, rims, heads and mounting hardware are removed. In my humble opinion, DW's practice of stamping the bare shell with its resonant pitch is more of a clever marketing gimmick than it is a useful asset (I was in advertising for thirty years). But hey, I could be wrong-happens all the time-just ask my wife.
I tried experiments with this a few years ago on many drums and I can tell you a secret to tuning the drum to an overall desired pitch. For example if you want a 10" Tom to ring out a bright E pitch, you need to tune both heads in unison a minor 3rd lower, so that would be C# (or Db). I don't know why but it works - I suspect its because you're adding a 2nd node or harmonic when you cap the end of a cylinder with another head. Think of pan pipes. As the pitch rises, the heads need to be tuned lower to compensate. Please try this and see what happens.
I've been screwing around with drums (taking them apart, trying extreme tensioning both loose & tight, whatever I could think of really) & having had my hands on virtually every major brand & being able to discuss the actual design & building of a lot of them, with people that were there, it comes down to all 12" toms sound like 12" toms. Prior to 1970, there wasn't a lot of concern about wood type, number of plies & how the edges were cut. Drummers did recognize that the various brands had subtle differences but, out front they all sounded pretty good. Marketing was the reason that all the minutia of the build became important. I think Buddy Rich nailed it when he said that you can't tune a drum, you can only tension it. Having more to say than they're built well, they look nice & sound great required what is really junk science to enter the ad campaigns. And frankly, the academy of junk science is situated in Oxnard CA. Learn what various tensioning will do & work with that. Put your time into your skills as a musician & leave the junk science to people that will travel to Italy & bang on trees with a special hammer in order to find the best wood to smear glue all over, bend into a shape that it doesn't want to be in, cover it with metal bits & pummel with wooden dowels. Consider the variables you found & think about how much time you'd seriously want to put in on this nonsense. Now get off my lawn!!! I do love that you care enough to do all the experimenting that you do. Iy's answering questions & solving problems a lot of people would have no idea how to approach. Two thumbs up from me.
Hey! hope you read this. I did the same thing on my pacific Drum set with five lugs and original hardware sheet metal hoops Whoah! LoL. So glad watch your vid. I did this watching DW's John Good. and yes sound like a Timbales( hope that spelled right) According John Good, now tune up the batter head to get the pitch bend. With these hoops starting getting scared but I tried and I really couldn't raise the batter head to achieve that not pleasantly anyway. So I did put the toms back on the set and played like that for a day or two and it sort drove me crazy Timbales only sound good if your going to play Santana Songs. So I started experimenting I just keeping turning down my batter head 1/2 at a time play it awhile and then another 1/2 turn and actually the toms starting sounding better. Never touching the resonant head which was still tuned to the pitch of the shell. And as long as I did the same turns on the other toms they stayed pretty much good sounding to the other toms. So now my batter heads are just tight enough to hit and rebound good and the kit doesn't sound that bad pretty god really. But like I said I am so glad I saw this video and said Sounds like a Timbale. Because it does and Somebody had the guts to say it.
I have a DW Mahogany/Gum kit, and it's probably the loudest wood kit I've ever owned or heard. Usually guys I'm in bands with are pissed because they're having to compete for volume (I'm a hard hitter too). I tuned the drums to their respective notes a while back, and I thought they actually sounded really fat and resonant. Then I played a show with them, and all the frequencies were swallowed up by my bandmates (two other guys playing out of tiny fender combo amps). That's the only time that's ever happened with that kit, and I was literally tuning the drums using a torque key in between songs to compensate. I'm not knocking anybody who does it, but it's something to be aware in the context of a live band environment.
9:35 is a priceless moment. The look on your face and the gut laugh that ensues is the most sincere thing I've seen all week! :)
Just shows that tuning to what sounds good to your ear is usually the way to go. Fantastic video
Indeed! Thanks so much! -Ben
This channel is pure gold, the videos are so interesting, you explain amazingly well, and its so relaxing to see and hear them, definitely one of the best drum channels
Absolutely. I’m happy that I found this Chanel! I already got some answers for problems I hat for a couple of years without finding solutions. Dank you so much and please keep going
Cody is the bee's knees, straight up
I started as a DW endorser back in the early days ('89 or '90).
John hadn't started stamping the pitch on shells yet, but he always checked them, and grouped them together so the set of shells would sound good together.
Any drummer can "sing" the pitches of his toms, so when I got a new kit, I would pick shells based on my ideal tom pitch. It's super fun.
@@tripledeluxeddayIt's bs, to put it lightly.
“things just got weird!” - I love that reaction! I saw on Drummers Review channel that in order to get a total note X, you tune the resonant head 1/2 note lower than X, and the batter head 1 1/2 note (a minor 3rd) lower than the resonant side. That makes sense and I’m sure science can show how that works. But that you dialled in the note of the total mass of the drum just by going for “my typical sound”, that is some Jedi voodoo stuff! Scary!
Rocket science class: Don’t worry guys, we’re not tuning drums!
Great episode, always wondered how much of an effect this had :D
Matthew Deakin cracked up! 😆
Matthew Deakin HAHAHAHAH!!!!! GOod one lol
I like this video. I tell people all the time...."don't worry about the actual pitch, just tune the damn drum to sound great and whatever that pitch ends up being is what it is".
Sounds Like a Drum!
Thank you very much to contribute to the drumming industry. I find it very valuable to educate us, the drummers and drum builders!
You are a huge step to the real point that most of the people and drum builders (also most of the big brands) don't realize.
Drums are one of the most complex acoustic phenomena among the instruments.
I am the founder of small drum building workshop in Europe, the Manic drum company.
One of my priorities or desires is to come as close to what is considered as the ultimate acoustic instrument (drum).
All the violin players, scientists and string builders know very well what the ultimate sound is among violins. It is definitely the Stradivarius. So what is so amazing at Stradivarius violins? It is the amplified specter of frequencies that are pleasant for most of the living beings on Earth. We call this specter "warmth". The "warmth" is most desirable characteristics among all the instruments.
What is "warmth"? The warmth is specific range of frequency specter that is more amplified compared to the rest. It is louder or amplified specter of low and middle frequencies (from ca. 100Hz-1000Hz). To achieve this specter, it takes really good understanding of acoustics. The lack of this understanding and knowledge results in what the market offers these days and also very little awareness among users (musicians-drummers). Could you ever tell me what the best snare drum sound is? I doubt, but string players and string builders can tell you about the Stradivarius sound!
Now lets get to the point;)
What big brands and their "scientists" always try to brain wash you is that "the harder the wood, more vibration you get"! So they are trying to teach you that most vibrating drum is the best drum!?!? Yes, but in what specter? Do you want bright, ear piercing, cold tone?
I am going to tell you what conditions are necessary to achieve great vibrating in warmth specter (talking about shell construction). It is the combination of low density shell material and high speed of the sound traveling thru it. We all know that harder (more dense) material in general allows higher sound speed. So what is "resonant wood"? It is a rare find among the soft woods (spruce - soft low density wood) that allows higher speed of the sound and the result is high elasticity (only here we are talking about vibrations in "warm" specter). We have made about 100 video hours of scientifically proven experiments on this subject. We will publish them in a few years and some more experiments in different fields.
Lets move on...
At one point of your really helpful video you became confused. It is because of the third most brutal obstacle. It is the resonant head. It makes all the scientists we have worked with in the past very unsure how to approach.
There are three most important factors when talking about the vibration and resonance of drums. 1. batter head, 2. resonant head (it gets quite easy without it), 3. the cavity of the shell. The fourth fact is also important before you start with experiments. It is the way the shell is vibrating really. To make it really simple, 99% of musical instruments need some kind of resonant body that will amplify the initial excitement. SO FORGET EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE LEARNED AND REMEMBER!!!! THE MOST IMPORTANT SOUND CHARACTER COMES FROM BATTER DRUM HEAD, AMPLIFIED BY THE SHELL. THE RESONANT HEAD JUST MAKES EVERYTHING MORE COMPLICATED FROM ACOUSTICS VIEW. The rest like shell thickness, hardware weigth, bearing edges, shell finish and the rest of the subjects that are mostly discussed on forums, makes only about 5% of the drum sound. It is the cream on the top but 95% tells you to think beyond. One very important thing to remember is that the shell as the shape (body) vibrates in the way that it visually produces flower-like-shape when watched from above. So the most important for drum builders should be to learn how to build the shell that vibrates between the lugs. 10 lugs, ten "flower leafs", each between lugs. Lugs should be zero vibration spots in fundamental frequency;) However, there are multi-direction vibrations in overtones, by the way;)
Finally, to conclude your experiment. To be able to find what you are looking for it to calculate next.
- Calculate the fundamental frequency of the drum with all the hardware and drum heads,
- After you find the fundamental frequency, you will be able to calculate all harmonics (overtones),
- Tune the heads so that wave length from batter to resonant drum head matches the distance from batter to resonance head length. You can also use 1/4 or 3/4 the wave length
- You will come close to "resonance" of the whole body.
- I am sorry, you aren't even close to optimal acoustic solution of a drum acoustics with my experiment, but it is a good starting point.
Sorry for my English! Peace everyone!
Sounds Like a Drum, I am so glad that you are taking a drum technology and acoustics to much higher level than most here on YT.
I thought about this before, you made me save some time thankfully! Your own lower tuning sounded so much better. Thanks for this great video as usual!
Great videos guys, Cody, gonna throw a random comment your way. You speak so well man, doesn't sound scripted but also you don't fumble your words. Makes for really easy watching and listening. AWESOME STUFF GUYS!
This might be my favourite episode so far, thanks for doing this. There is no question that DW makes great stuff, but they are also really, really good at creating a want for their stuff.
I used to work at a venue that had an early Collector's kit in the backline. It sounded great at gigs and like utter shit at every open jam.
true indeed. that maybe sets the difference between musicians and music/equipment fans. it depends on what kind of relationship you actually wanna have with your passion. . . and i really think it's all good as long as you feel well with it.
i know a few guys out there which are no musicians at all, but they got a pair of sticks, a cymbal stand and they actually buy a few cymbals every month, just to explore the sound and the complexity of the instruments. it's crazy bcause i didn't even notice that such kind of sound connoiseurs even exist. but it's great.
and it's the same with the bonham, ludwig, dw or and what ever fans which admire the whole spectrum of fascination around the whole experience. it's all great.
and even greater is that every new generation got his own taste, depends their own teenager youth musical experience. 80's and 90's gave birth to a lot of tama and yamaha guys. the millenium generation came thru with ocdp, dw and a the new custom wave . . . and so on . . . all great.
pretty nice stuff
greets
The 90’s dW kits shells were all made by Keller , which is what you get when you get a custom kit 9/10 times, after dW started making they’re own shells the sound changed to a tubby low booming sound much different than the explosive sound of the Keller’s, to this day Keller shells always worth a lot and when dw cashed in , while certainly beautiful,they couldn’t get the same effect with their shells this is why custom kits sound so great , truth ocp , SJC, etc are all Keller’s shells class dismissed lol 😂
Facts, DW is incredible at marketing their stuff. I've worked with all sorts of drums over the years on the retail side of things Collector's series kits actually sound like trash and incredibly difficult to get a good sound with. The cross grain X plies and all that make the drums very difficult and actually hinder the sound. I've heard stories where one time DW tried to do a comparison video between their different lines and it was funny cause all the artists thought the designer series sounded much better than the collector's so they had to scrap the project.
@@mikestein1024 Gretsch are Keller shells as well.
I love your channel! You have the best tuning advice, explaining every aspect while giving examples of over and under tuning. Sounds like a drum, is my favorite drum related channel on UA-cam!
I still refer to this video because tuning for resonance by ear has made all my drums sound incredible! Thanks for this experiment
Watched a video where John Good tuned Cobus's drums. He'd get everything in tune with itself, then thump the shell and tune to that note. So it had hardware, hoops, and heads on there. So that MAY just check out.
I've wondered about this as well, thanks for showing me it's ultimately up to taste!
I would like to see a video comparing maple, to poplar, ash, bubinga, etc. There are a lot of combinations, but some sort of basic comparison. I have basically felt that I am a novice, and should not exclusively demand maple, because I don't know the difference between one or the other yet. Maybe only compare woods for starters.
That's definitely in the plans when we can get a drum builder onboard for making some identical drums with different woods for a true comparison. -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum This would be great content. There is a lack of A:B testing for drums. Also for other variables: bearing edges, shell depth, number of lugs, etc. Loved the rims episode comparison.
Diameter and depth of the drum, type of drum heads, and the tuning of the drum heads all effect the sound far more than what type of wood the shells are made of. Poplar was a very popular wood to use by drum manufacturers prior to the 1970s because of how cheap it is to buy in bulk. Hard to find poplar drums today outside of entry level kits because the misconstrued belief (mostly due to marketing) that it is an inferior wood.
johnnystaccata I challenge anyone to listen to a recorded drum(set) and guess what kind of wood the kit is made of.
Or the brand...the bearing edges...the heads...the color of the rug the drums were set upon...Seeing a trend here? Without side by side comparison, it's more of a question of "does it sound good in that particular musical context or not?"
Great video. I own 2 custom-ordered DW kits and they always sound fantastic and i didn't buy them for the pitched shell thing.
I bought my first one because one of my drummer friend had one and they were the best sounding drums i'd ever heard.
Along with their incredible sound, DW was also the only company that could make me a set of drums
in the sizes and colors that i wanted. I actually don't use the pitch that each drum is tuned to.
I just use my ears, experience and personal tricks to achieve what i consider to be the best sounding drums I've ever heard.
I've used other brands for rental kits or house kits and with my tuning tricks, i got pretty much all of them to sound very good;
depending on the quality of the skins. Basically, any brand that has good heads on them will sound good.
Thanks for posting.
The marketing department of DW wishes the first half of this video didn't exist, and wants to use the second half for their next advertising campaign! :) Alot of work must have went into tuning for this video... thank you for saving us the time to investigate! This is interesting results because it seems to show empirically that tuning for a pleasing tone is optimal for resonance comparing to hitting specific frequencies or tension settings, as recommended by tuning companies like DrumDial and Drumtune Pro. Which also happens to be exactly what I'm experimenting with now on an old Rogers kit.
I once when tuning my bass drum ( 18"deep X 22"diameter) pin stripe batter ebony ambassador resso, just messing around I tuned the batter head higher and higher while keeping the reason head at the pitch where the drum resonated when I would hum said pitch close to the shell. The drum got higher and higher then suddenly I crossed some kind of line a d the pitch of the drum dropped lower than I had ever heard it while the note not sounding like punching a garbage bag. And the resonance of the bass drum was likelihood expect from a Tom! After all your bass drum is just a really big Tom laying on its side. Only muffling I used was a felt strip inside both front and batter heads off center by the width of my hand. Having done this, my bass drums have sounded HUGE ever since!
Gonna try this. To recap:
Hum notes high and low near the drum until you find what makes it resonate. Tune reso head to said pitch. Tighten the batter until it oddly sounds lower than it did looser.
Thanks
Super interesting, and your laughter is contagious - it really resonates at this end too, or maybe I'm just tuned right! I'm learning so much every time I watch your videos, thank you so much!
So I'm apparently late to the party here (by about 4 years according to youtube), but I just now found this video and the series. These videos are great!
I started digging these up because I'm looking to re-head my new set but didn't want to spend a ton of money buying every type of head just to see which setup and tuning works the best. This video in particular is an experiment I had meant to do myself but hadn't gotten to yet. The results you got are so very interesting! Great stuff!
As a drummer relearning drumming I enjoy this channel very much. Haven't played since 1976 but just got a Yamaha kit pretty cheap and have started playing again.
It's so cool to see you shocked and joyfuy with your discovery that the final pitch is where you started with the original shell. Cool!
Very interesting!! Love the attention to detail in your videos.
I JUST WANNA SAY HOW MUCH I ENJOY YOUR VIDEOS AND TIPS AND HACKS, HAVE HELPED ME ALOT...THANKS SOUNDS LIKE A DRUM PEEPS
THANK YOU! You just saved me a lot of annoying time spent removing hardware and fussing with tuners to check out whether there’s a reason to tune to a shell’s pitch. After your experiment I see absolutely NO reason to bother.
Very cool. A much deeper philosophy into drum tuning. I'm just about ready to re-tune my kit. So, I've been researching videos on the great ways to tune drum sets. This video is a keeper. Thank you for your insight. Cheers
Sounds about right to me! I interned at a studio where the head engineer was a crazy drum tuner and he told me the same thing! Tune the reso a tone lower than your desired pitch and the batter 3 semitones below the reso note. Works for me every time!
You guys do some of the most interesting experiments on drums IMO and this was no exception. I really enjoyed this. Thanks!
Great video, and my god that Tom sounds great when you tune it by ear. Wow
Love your channel. This type of channel is much needed for the drumming community. Learned lots!
Very cool video. am a DW fan which people say a lot about the note stamp . Now I have a little more info on that thank you . Having said all that tune to ear and tune often.
I own a dw kit from the year 2000. It was build long before they start to do their ssc concept. What the timbre matching, as John Good calls it, does is, that they are able to build a drum kit where every shell matches perfectly to each other, tonally. That´s all! It does not mean, that you have to tune your tom at this pitch. DW does this process after cuting the edge and before they drill the holes for the hardware. And it´s no surprice that the pitch of the shell will change after it´s finished. But the drum kit will sounds still perfect in it´s self. Much more influence on the tone has the ssc process and the grain orientation thing, they do now for a few years. I have allways tuned my kit for what I was going to do with it. Sometime it was a rock sound, sometimes Jazz or whatever. Every tuning worked! But thank you for testing that! It was a great pleasure to watch!
All the best from Germany,
Jürgen
Thanks for watching! We're aware of the "timbre matching" that DW does, though that's not what was being addressed in this video. Instead, we were experimenting the tuning process that John Good teaches (ua-cam.com/video/yl9wgXSfxew/v-deo.html) where you tune the resonant head to the resonant pitch of the drum shell. -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum Oh then I have not gotten that. But I also know this video and teh concept. I think you can do that. But I have not used this tuning method at all. I`ve tryed it a few times but the result was not for me. I tune my toms in intervals (mostly fiths an fourths) with little adjustments, so it sounds good to me. I can not remember how my kit sounded out of the box. But the tuning will not be the same as the note that is printed in it, in my humble opinion. Or it will happen accidentally, as you´ve experienced.
All the best, Jürgen
It's so much fun working through all your episodes!!! That's sooooo interesting!!! THANKS A LOT!!!
Cory, You said it so very Welll at 10:00, "Before You Go Down That Rabbit Hole"... I'm in the Tom Drum Tuning Rabbit Hole. I'm a Newbie with respect to Drum Tuning. I'm a resurrected Drummer at 70 YO, who plays solely for Pleasure and a retirement Hobby, to My Music about 1 hour a day. I knew NOTHING of this back in the late 60s, when ni began to play drums (with HS Buddies in a Garage Band). Last year I upgraded and bought a Used PDP Concept Maple 6 piece drum Kit. The Cheapo Gammon Beginner kit that My wife gave me for Xmas in 2018 was gifted to my 4 year old Grandson. Tuning is elusive to me. I replaced the batter heads to Evans G2s coated per the drum store advice as a good head for Maple drums. I just can't get to that "sweet" spot of Doooo, Dooooo with very little overtones. I hate that overtone ringing/ buzzing. I've tried Remo Emperor Clears vs. EC2s Clear as well. I've watched CVory's videos, and that of others, and it drives me a little Loopy to get that sound. No Mics, no Compression, no recording, just Playing to my music. I would be so satisfied with the sound that Cory generated at the opening of this video. The Sweet Spot of punchiness, sustain, and little overtoning ringing. Be well all, Happy drumming. Nothwithstanding this frustration (because OCD can be your Worst Enemy), I am very Glad to have picked Drummking afain after 50 Years !. And the beat Goes On.
Sorry for the number of Typos..... I Think faster than I can Type. :):)
I liked your approach to the topic. I think it's good to find things out by oneself. If it works as stated, fine. In the end, we get some kind of knowledge, which we might (or not) end up applying somewhere down the road. Excellent job!!!
I think you pretty much hit the jackpot. We talked about this a little before, and I should have clarified that I was getting my note by leaving the lugs on. It seemed to make the most sense because the mass is going to be there, so you might as well account for it. I actually watched a DW clip the other day and I can confirm that the shell tap was done naked, with holes drilled, right before it hit the hardware mounting station.
My approach is to tune the reso to that note, and then adjust the batter head to taste. If you get a weird harmonic, just go a little higher or lower until it phases out. This approach seems to work well on medium shelled drums with no re-rings.
very fun. Great experiment! Thx for doing this. Been curious about this for a while.
This really confirms mostly what I've always thought! A lot of hype about things that are not really as significant as some would have you believe. More and more I have come to believe that wood types, reinforcing rings(or not), "low mass" hardware, pitch matched shells and all the other selling points that companies spew as better, more pure, more natural, warmer, etc. don't matter as much as the heads, the tuning, the sticks you use and how you hit the drum. More expensive doesn't necessarily mean better sound! Not to be confused with higher quality (fit, finish, hardware materials and assembly processes).
Yup. 90% head selection and tuning. A nicer kit is just easier to tune and maybe has a better tuning range.
Thats it
Zac you nailed it with "and how you hit the drum" and I am sure we have both played on some real 'winners'
Absolutely agree. As long as a drum is round, has a true bearing edge and is made of a consistent material, it can be made to sound great. The difference between wood types is small to negligible, but bearing edge design and significant shell thickness changes do have more of an effect Imo. Let's face it, the rest is just marketing hype driven by a need to sell drums.
I did watch a comparison between s Chinese set and a dW , while the dW did sound a tiny bit better and more open sounding the difference was very marginal and not good enough to be 10 times as expensive I'm guessing the differences are less marginal between dW cheapest kit and most expensive
Went to Timbale Country last year for the summer holiday. Nice place! Ha!
I’ve often wondered about this topic. Thx for doing the work and producing the vid.
Loved this. It’s something I’ve wondered for a while and it’s nice to see someone, especially you guys, has tested it out! Keep on keeping :)
i love it so much when you have a passion and you can learn from smart people with a lot of knowledge with the same passion as you do! love your channel and your approach to technical issues you make it easy to understand! 👍🏻
The can is open and the worms are escaping!
Now besides all of the woods used, there can be exploration of shell depth, ply count, wrap or stain, etc.
This is first real trial I’ve seen, and all drum manufacturers are touting the benefits of their many designs....although resonate pitch and tuning is never mentioned.
I’m ready to re-skin my Yamaha’s soon, and I’m always looking for the holy grail.
Crazy stuff! Great information mate. I've never understood the timbre or sonic tone of any wood so I had always tuned my kit to whatever I wanted to hear at the time. Glad to see this video shed some light on tuning.
Epic episode! I have used a method lately to slowly search for the “resonant peak” as in when I hear the most resonance. I have to try this method too, it does make a lot of sense to me, ie how you ended up finding what worked best for you!
I've watched quite a few of your videos, and haven't seen you cover this trick, but when you stripped all the lugs off, then put them back on, you commented on the rattling noise.. when I first started playing drums (feels like 100 years ago, lol) my friend was a full time pro drummer who knew his stuff, he came to my house, we stripped all the hardware off that old set, and all the springs inside the lugs got a thin wrapping of tissue paper... OMG the improvement it made !! it deadened unwanted vibrations, and overtones and made a better, cleaner note, he learned that trick in the studio... ever since then, I've done that with every lug on every drum on every set, which sucks on a 10 or 12 piece kit, yeah, that's the weekend gone, lmao...great videos brother
Mark Fay can you expand on this? In order to do this do you have to take the hardware off or can I do it with just the heads off?
@@fairweatherfriends. you need access to the lug inserts from what I understand, so it's a hardware off job.
Why did UA-cam NOT recommend this to me? Very imformative.
Thank you for this! As a big DW fan I have always wondered what the actual value of knowing the pitch of the shell provided. I've often thought about this and I wondered if I was getting the most out of my drums. I guess now I can put the issue to rest. Thanks again, this video is great, and so is your channel.
I always viewed it as simply being able to voice the drums together easier.
That's pretty freaky Cody but still really cool. Thanks for another great video. I love the channel and it dives into drum science like no other channel that I've found so far
Interesting!!! I love all your videos, lots of fun to watch
This was so great! Back before drum dials, I would use a crappy keyboard to tune my father's DW's by suggested note. It was impossible. Yeah, somehow I became a drum tech. But, as another commenter mentioned, those shells had a sweet spot. I dodn't like it, nor did my father so we would work around it with different heads and /or tape. Your end result and laugh were stunning! Keep it up guys!
I love all your videos, been binge watching for a while but this one was by far the most interesting (for me anyway) as this thing of tuning a drum to the fundamental note of the shell has always had be intrigued.
What I took from it, is that yes, the fundamental note does in fact get the most resonance. But it's not the fundamental of the shell in of itself, but the note of it with the hardware and as you found, that fundamental note is not achieved by tuning the heads to that note but rather how the top and bottom heads interact.
(it's a bit of a brain freeze just saying that out loud!)
Excellent stuff!!
I usually tune a Tom until it has maximum resonance.....where ever that is in the room that I’m in. A soft knuckle tap on the shell right in the middle is where I always end up finding the best sound in my drum room. On my newest kit I tuned each drum individually until they sounded deep, resonant and fat with a coated Emperor on top and clear Ambassador on bottom. I go set the kit up in different room than usual and they sounded choked and flat. So I loosened each tension rod all the way, and tightened a 1/16 turn above lowest possible tension and I was amazed at the sound I was getting. Top and bottom heads were very close in tension. Bottoms were a touch tighter than batters in the floor toms, rack toms were same tension. The room is just as much a part of the drum sound as the shells and heads. I later realized that the room was boosting the higher frequencies a great deal. So that makes sense that tuning to lowest possible tension gave the best sound.
I think the pitch of that tom sounds as it should. I usually have my 12" tuned to about the same pitch. Great video and subject discussion.!👍
Definitely a very interesting experiment and result. I tried tuning my toms with a tuner but now I just tune them to what sounds good to me. Which has changed over time as I've developed a better ear and I'm able to work with the resonance better now. When I first started drumming I didn't like to hear my drums "sing".
A good test for me is to hit the drum head with varying degrees of force and make sure the sound isn't choked.
I got to tell ya fellows,I love your channel.Ive owned several DW kits and I never tuned them to a note on the shell or to any certain pitch.Ive alway tunned them by ear , what sounds good to me.Always got a lot of complements on my drum sound.Dw use to timber match there shells to make sure they went together.As far as the note never went for that.I will say I own a pearl reference kit,and I tune them as individual drums and they sound amazing. At the end of the day if the drum is round,great bearing edges, straight hoops,and great heads they should sound good.TUNE BY EAR!!!
Thanks so much! Glad you're enjoying it. I can totally understand timbre matching (matching shells based on their overall tonal color and balance of overtones) and maybe even their fundamental resonant pitch (though I don't think this makes a whole lot of difference in the end). Here's the part of the video where John Good himself recommends tuning the reso head to the frequency of the shell: ua-cam.com/video/yl9wgXSfxew/v-deo.html
Of course, there's some discrepancy here as you notice from our video since the pitch of the shell with and without hardware varies quite a bit. I'll be curious to chat with John about this...hopefully at NAMM this week! -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum keep doing what your doing Ben,I love how you guys dive in to these products and fully explain the out come. You guys are helping a lot of people in the drumming community. I'm glad to see people like Dw,pearl,tama,and gretsch continue to make improvements over the years,but as we all know that comes with a big price tag on the high end kits.The great thing is it has trickled down on the more affordable kits.Today these young players can buy a beautiful kit for under $1000.00 if they don't get caught up in all the marketing hoopla,!!!Enjoy Namm,wish I was going.Maybe next year.
This is brilliant journalism of the highest standard, thank you. I'd love to see you now bust the birch v maple myth, as my own tests revealed they sounded identical to me and every customer in a shop when comparing Yamaha Absolutes 15 years ago. Not to be greedy, but tests on the impact of shell depths would be fascinating in terms of how much difference it actually makes and how much is just fashion. Thanks again
A very well done, and informative video. Great Job !!
No Thank U Cody, SLAD & Cadence prds., I've learned so much from ur channel its unreal. I was gettin this "boxy" sound on my snare when I'd put on a new head & tune it up? Cody helped troubleshoot that for me, ntm many other things, thanks again guys
What a great vid, guys. I love seeing them pop up when posted.
Thanks so much! Glad you're enjoying the series. Be sure to share them with your drummer friends! -Ben
Oohhh I like, Really like that last sound test!! It has the "pitch-bend-fall" (I got from John Good) sound I've come to love when tuning my toms. & btw, Cody & SLAD is the "Best" channel hands down, Absolute Gold, we love ya Cody
Brilliant topic. As always, thanks for the video!
Timbale country. I think I’d party there! Just proves the drum wants to sit where it’s sounds the best.
In my opinion this Video actually CONFIRMED the scheme of tuning to the pitch of a shell.
There seems to be a misconception that if you want a certain pitch, you tune both heads to that pitch.
If you want to tune a Tom to a certain pitch, for example a B flat, you would tune the resohead a semitone flat to the desired pitch of the drum (so to an A) and the batterhead 3 semitones lower to the resohead (so to a F sharp). This is exactly what you did! So by tuning it to your taste, you actually tuned the drum to a B flat, the shell's pitch and the result was amazing. A valid point you said is, that adding hardware changes the pitch of the drum. So you can definetely argue if the stamps from DW are helping this method. As far as I know, they pitch match the different shells of a kit so you have certain intervalls when buying a kit. Maybe thats the main reason behind it.
A little side note:
People seem to be very enthusiastic about the "debunking" of the scheme, since it's seems to be a justification to not spend much money on drums like DW, which I find kind of sad...
It doesn't matter if you own a cheap starter Kit or a highend set aslong as you're happy with it. But don't bash drum companies because they charge a decent amount of money for a high-end set which is built in america or germany. People there get paid decent wages. Remember that most kits with a great price/value point are manufactured in china where wages are way lower which keeps the prize down.
Anyway, great content as always! This is one of my favorite channels on youtube, a real haven for drum nerds! :)
Best wishes from Germany!
Great video man , you’ve educated me on many aspects of tuning ,really love your content I think in the end when you tune to max resonance it will pull that natural note from the drum just maybe a pitch variant but yes Bering edge and head are gonna be the biggest factor in weather a drum sounds good or not with good heads most people couldn’t tell the difference between a 300$ kit and a 3000$ kit , having said this each manufacturer s shells are gonna have they’re own character, example being pearls thick blended and heavy hardwares always make their shells chocked but punchy, vs Keller’s thin plys of any custom set sort of flex more with the pitch bend and it’s more of an exploding attack sound and feel , DW which used to use Keller’s shells but does not anymore are generally thicker plys and heavier hardware so what you get is an open sound with a ton of resonance and presence but because of the heavy construction they have a low thudding as of late lmk your thoughts on this everyone ??
Great! Thanks a bunch for this experiment-very interesting!! 👍
when you held the 141hz my snare drum vibrated perfectly.
Great episode guys!
Thanks so much, Ken! Be sure to share it with anyone you think might enjoy it. -Ben
I really liked the idea for this video! Can't wait for the next video.
Thanks so much! We had a blast producing it. -Ben
One thing to bear in mind when thinking about specific pitches is the overtone series. As an example, if you tune the drum to a B and it’s too high, try tuning it to a 4th (F#) or 5th (E) below the B. If that’s too low, try a minor third below B. Knowing a tiny bit of music theory really should not be unrealistic for any musician.
Wow, that was a cool experiment.
The results make sense to me. Cool experiment. Im gonna mess around with tuning my drums now 🥁
great video as always! a good reminder to be wary about marketing gimmicks.
that last tuning had quite a nice tone, but would freak out 99% of (live) engineers
Finally a video that explains what I been looking for 😭
I like the first tone and pitch ,it's clear with no weirdness overtime, and you hear the attack of the stick hitting the head.
Excellent! This approach may work for you. We thought it was a bit high for a 12" tom, particularly if you're tuning for a more modern rock/pop scenario. -Ben
Back in my university days I sang in a choir with a conductor who was really into natural “just” intonation, and adjusting chords to match the overtone series of each tonality. Around the same time, I also got my first DW kit. I landed at the same result, but not by tuning one head to the shell, or going by feel. I assumed that the resonant pitch of the shell was actually the second harmonic (first overtone above the fundamental) based on the mass of the drum. Therefore, if the batter head was tuned a fourth or fifth lower than that, it could create different overtone interactions with the shell. Then I would tune the reso to taste. Having had a few DW kits now, and having given them a tap with “factory tuning” at various shops, it seems like they tune the batter a fourth lower than the marked pitch, and the reso a fifth lower. This hits the second and fifth harmonics giving a big, rich sound.
Hey guys cheers from PARAGUAY like always your videos are great and most important so educational to me i thank you for that but like always said all is in the ears i never use any kind of machine or tuner i just use my ears and give my drums the sound i like abrazos and keep the feeling.
Another excellent instructional video. Thank you!
Hi, great channel, very interesting. This video makes me remind the time when I experimented with different tunnings and pitches and all of that, until I decided not to drive me crazy anymore and to tune according to how it sounded right to me for each situation. But it was very interesting and I learnt a lot.
By the why, another aspect to keep in mind is the finsh. The more natural, the lower the pitch, as the more plies of paint, wax or lacquer, the higher... and of course wraps as well.
Nicely done sir!
Very interesting results. Now I have to remove all the hardware on my toms and measure those tones..
Thanks!
Or you could just tune them to sound good...but it's still a fun experiment. Cheers!
This is pretty much exactly how I tune my toms. Hit the shell with all the hardware on it and tune the heads by ear to match the sound. I picked it up from a recording engineer and thought it was really effective.
You guys rock and very knowledgeable!!! I'm glad I'm a fan
This video backs up something I’ve always noticed! I know it sounds super weird, but I’ve always found that tuning the reso head to a semi tone below a desired pitch and the batter to 3 semitones below the pitch of the reso (which is exactly what you did) for some reason yields the desired pitch for me. I’ll have to try tuning to the resonant tones of the shells next time in tune a kit.
got uber fascinating towards the end there hahah
So I own a DW Collector's kit that I had made with custom plies etc. and I have tuned the shells to the printed resonant note for recording projects. I wanted max resonance and no bend for that recording, so I tuned the top and bottom heads to the note. I did not use an electronic tuner at the time, but used my ear and a pitch pipe. The drums sounded phenomenal. The resonated wonderfully with a beautiful tone. HOWEVER, these being very high end drums, they have a very wide tuning range and they sound great tuned a lot of different ways, and in a wide range of tunings. I am headed into the studio this weekend and I'm using an electronic tuner this time, and tuning with a tighter batter side for some bend, major thirds, and I'm not tuning to the pitch of the shell, instead I'm tuning using a different low end base for the largest floor tom. Will the drums sound worse? No, they'll just sound different. You don't buy a DW to be locked into specific notes, but having the resonant shell note known does give you an idea of where the sweet spot really is, and therefore what your theoretical tuning range is for that set of toms. My 16 naturally resonates at a D2. I'm starting it at a C2 this weekend. It's going to still sound great. But when I'm calculating out beforehand where I ight want to tune, I know naturally it sits at a D2, and I can see how much range in theory I comfortably have on either side of that. So to me it's a nice useful feature, not just a gimmick.
Oh, and I liked the video.
So, out of curiosity, what do you say to the pitch of the shell changing once it’s outfitted with hardware?
@@SoundsLikeADrum Like anything, if you introduce any mass, tension, etc to a resonating object, it will resonate at a different frequency. Like you point out in the video, mount the drum using various mounting systems and that will affect resonance further. Now at the factory, in DW's case, that presents them with an option, do you label the drum with the note of the shell by itself, the shell with hardware, the shell mounted, etc etc. They probably choose without because that's the wood shell in its most basic state. They can pitch match shells in sets, and then they mount hardware according to order. It would be exceedingly difficult to pitch match sets AFTER hardware were mounted because when drums are custom ordered, it would mean swapping out hardware on sets until you get to that perfect set. And in reality, while any of these features from all the manufacturers definitely have a marketing component to them, pitch matching from the raw shell is still a nice touch and it gets you a little closer to perfection IMO, while still being factory feasible. With my kit for example, I worked with the DW folks to configure the ply of each drum to zero in on a specific sound, and not all the toms and kicks used the same configuration. My set includes a mix of VLT, VLX, VLX+, and X-shell ply configurations to custom order. The fact that they then go through inventory and pitch match them is pretty impressive. Expecting them to take the specific hardware I ordered and mount them first and THEN pitch match them would be unreasonable, especially when there are going to be other variables after they leave the factory that will be introduced that will further affect the resonant pitch. IMO, it's a base starting point. Tuned to those printed notes the kit sounds fantastic as I said, but that doesn't mean it's better or worse or right or wrong at any other tuning.
But getting back to the basis, the question is at what point and under what circumstance do you consider what the natural resonance point of the shell is? Put heads on it and tension them, from a physics perspective you're not just tightening the head, you're introducing stress/tension on the lugs and that too will change the resonance of the shell itself even if every so slightly. So I do think it's fair to say "were going to declare the pitch of the shell is what it is with nothing added". Now whether that makes the ideal tuning point is up for debate, but as drummers we should always do what sounds best for the application, not necessarily what the factory suggests which is really just a guide.
@@SoundsLikeADrum I mean even if in the perfect unicorn situation you could have a perfectly matched set of toms under the specific head, tension, hardware, mounting etc situation...and I'm talking down to the exact frequency perfect harmony across the board, you're still gonna have an engineer hit that talkback button and be like "hey, can you go ahead and try slapping a moongel on that floor tom for me please? Thanks." LOL ;)
Very cool experiment. Tightening the reso head gave it more sustain. Then, upon your final tune you made the tom sound great. Nice & thick with a perceivable note. Conclusion: your tuning skills are unparalleled. Nice job
Thanks for watching! It's all about practicing and listening for the changes in sound based on your actions. Cheers! -Ben
Sounds Like A Drum Thx Ben. I’ve been playing for 50 years on many levels with incredible musicians. I continue to learn still every day. Guys like you inspire older guys like me to continue to explore the arts of drumming. Thx brother. Wishing you every blessing.
I subscribed. Thx. D
I love this! You looked to science to get your desired result, and failed - ended up going for desired result, just to find science confirming that you were right.
Thanks! And yes/no- we were illustrating that there's an issue with simply referencing the resonant pitch of a naked drum shell as the go-to for tuning. These drums sound great at a range of tunings and one of the most commonly ignored aspects, from a scientific perspective, would be tuning based on the diameter and depth of the shell in order to achieve a standing wave. There's a lot of physics here to unpack. Might just have to produce a few more episodes on the subject! -Ben
Can you imaging a physics hack running the math to substantiate this?... Imagine running the math on all the shell configurations DW has on different shell designs recipes (X, VLT, SLT,etc.)... Each component affecting the shell (and the shell itself) is expressed as a number that is the part of the sum of the tuning of any drum. Fascinating!... Love this video!
I tuned the drums to the shell with all hardware and heads on. (Pearl Maple Custom MMX). Used a soft mallet to hit the shell when it is mounted on the kit including the Pearl Optimount. Than tuned both heads to the pich of the drum. You wil see ...if you have to raise the tuning of the heads ....also the pitch of the shell will rise but .....they will come together once. It is a converging process. Same if you go downwards ...once they will be the same. It did sound OK but you have weird intervals. I also use tuning in chords/tonal ranges like 18=a, 16=c, 14=f, 12=a, 10=c or 16=c, 14=e, 12=g, 10=c or 16=c, 13=g, 12=c 16=c, 13=f, 12=a also experimented with intervals like major thirds 16=c, 14=e, 12=gis, 10=c or fourth 16=c, 14=f, 12=b, 10=e
In Poland drummer Tomasz Łosowski popularized a method to tune the drum to a certain pitch which is to tune the batter lower and bottom higher than the desired pitch. For exsmple to tune the 10inch drum to E you tune the bottom head to F and the batter to B. This method is really popular in Poland.
I've always wanted to perform this experiment, but never got around to it. About fifteen years ago, I hand-made my own drum set and placed the lugs at the nodal point (22% of the depth of the drum), which, in theory, is friendly to the free resonance of the shell. Well, I've been playing this set for a long, long time, and by now, I've come to the opinion that the more the shell vibrates, the more it will generate overtones conflicting with the combined tuned pitch of the heads. If drummers actually liked overtones, moongels and dampening rings wouldn't sell as well as they do. Conclusion: Forget the esoteric physics and just tune the heads the way they sound best to your ear and don't worry about the pitch at which your shells vibrate when the lugs, tension-rods, rims, heads and mounting hardware are removed. In my humble opinion, DW's practice of stamping the bare shell with its resonant pitch is more of a clever marketing gimmick than it is a useful asset (I was in advertising for thirty years). But hey, I could be wrong-happens all the time-just ask my wife.
I tried experiments with this a few years ago on many drums and I can tell you a secret to tuning the drum to an overall desired pitch. For example if you want a 10" Tom to ring out a bright E pitch, you need to tune both heads in unison a minor 3rd lower, so that would be C# (or Db). I don't know why but it works - I suspect its because you're adding a 2nd node or harmonic when you cap the end of a cylinder with another head. Think of pan pipes. As the pitch rises, the heads need to be tuned lower to compensate. Please try this and see what happens.
After many years of tuning I just discovered the same thing. Thanks.
I've been screwing around with drums (taking them apart, trying extreme tensioning both loose & tight, whatever I could think of really) & having had my hands on virtually every major brand & being able to discuss the actual design & building of a lot of them, with people that were there, it comes down to all 12" toms sound like 12" toms. Prior to 1970, there wasn't a lot of concern about wood type, number of plies & how the edges were cut. Drummers did recognize that the various brands had subtle differences but, out front they all sounded pretty good. Marketing was the reason that all the minutia of the build became important. I think Buddy Rich nailed it when he said that you can't tune a drum, you can only tension it. Having more to say than they're built well, they look nice & sound great required what is really junk science to enter the ad campaigns. And frankly, the academy of junk science is situated in Oxnard CA. Learn what various tensioning will do & work with that. Put your time into your skills as a musician & leave the junk science to people that will travel to Italy & bang on trees with a special hammer in order to find the best wood to smear glue all over, bend into a shape that it doesn't want to be in, cover it with metal bits & pummel with wooden dowels. Consider the variables you found & think about how much time you'd seriously want to put in on this nonsense. Now get off my lawn!!! I do love that you care enough to do all the experimenting that you do. Iy's answering questions & solving problems a lot of people would have no idea how to approach. Two thumbs up from me.
On a side note, stave shells do seem to stand out a bit in terms of sound/power/volume, in my opinion. Same probably goes for concentric solid shells.
thank you sir, clear and informative.
Outstanding content guys!! Will be joining the Patreon! Thanks!
Thanks so much for your support!
Great video... even better shirt!
Hey! hope you read this. I did the same thing on my pacific Drum set with five lugs and original hardware sheet metal hoops Whoah! LoL. So glad watch your vid. I did this watching DW's John Good. and yes sound like a Timbales( hope that spelled right) According John Good, now tune up the batter head to get the pitch bend. With these hoops starting getting scared but I tried and I really couldn't raise the batter head to achieve that not pleasantly anyway. So I did put the toms back on the set and played like that for a day or two and it sort drove me crazy Timbales only sound good if your going to play Santana Songs. So I started experimenting I just keeping turning down my batter head 1/2 at a time play it awhile and then another 1/2 turn and actually the toms starting sounding better. Never touching the resonant head which was still tuned to the pitch of the shell. And as long as I did the same turns on the other toms they stayed pretty much good sounding to the other toms. So now my batter heads are just tight enough to hit and rebound good and the kit doesn't sound that bad pretty god really. But like I said I am so glad I saw this video and said Sounds like a Timbale. Because it does and Somebody had the guts to say it.
I have a DW Mahogany/Gum kit, and it's probably the loudest wood kit I've ever owned or heard. Usually guys I'm in bands with are pissed because they're having to compete for volume (I'm a hard hitter too). I tuned the drums to their respective notes a while back, and I thought they actually sounded really fat and resonant. Then I played a show with them, and all the frequencies were swallowed up by my bandmates (two other guys playing out of tiny fender combo amps). That's the only time that's ever happened with that kit, and I was literally tuning the drums using a torque key in between songs to compensate. I'm not knocking anybody who does it, but it's something to be aware in the context of a live band environment.