Good debate gentlemen, the Kalanga gentlemen I hope he put on the fight, cause this guy knows what he is talking about. He is an asset. I love his attitude personally. Go forward my brother the light is in your path.
This is informative. Thank you so much for this lecture. I'm Venda and have been confused a lot by the Mthwakazi cessation issue. I was once added in Mthwakazi WhatsApp group, I raised a debate questioning Ndebele dominance over other groups in Matabeleland. Instead of handling my question in a civilised manner, one member insulted me. I responded in Venda asking him to behave like an adult. In response, he said: "Zwanini sesithini, sesikhulumela isiShona". His response was a crystal ball, it foretold me about the politics of exclusion if ever we support cessation...
Very interesting and informative session. The gentlemen is right to say the narrative should be to say lets fight and defeat the enemy on a united front of being diverse people from Matabeleland but as a regional powerhouse. Phase 2 would be to discuss and agree on an equal representation after we have won the battle of self determination and there are many sensible people from all Matabeleland tribes that will ensure this happens. First things first - lets defeat the enemy and all will be well, the stakes are high. Aluta continua!!!!!!!!! I rest my case.
Very informative sir. As a Kalanga/Ndebele in North Eastern part of Botswana 🇧🇼 , now I am getting learned. Well researched topic n very interesting. But in the Eyes of God we all are one human beings. Why don't we do the same , get rid of pride n unite
as a Shona man (karanga/manyika) my family always viewed the kalanga as part of the larger Shona(for lack of a better term at the moment ) family ,i think we as a country should do a better job of build true communal bonds with people exactly the same as us
A very informative debate. As a united diverse Matabeleland we should all put our minds together and come up with a common solution to defeat the common enemy in our Midst. To achieve that we should all have a sit down and Map what will happen pre and post this dream. Now I do understand when other ethnic groups raise potent issues that by default that Shona and Ndebele were made national languages they have contributed to the National tribal segregation "Shona" and regional Tribal segregation "Ndebele" by default whether by design, directly or indirectly and the two domant languages have benefited from that by design. I hope we will all come together as civilized people and put our differences aside for the sake of the common objective that has been the deliberate Shona dominion and displacement of all the people's of Matabeleland entrached in the 1979 Grand Plan. The choice to side with oppressors against the oppressed or with abusers against the abused or predators against the preyed will always be a choice. Not a circumstance in which people are forced. The decision to choose is the exercise of a rationalised option to obtain a benefit that I hope will be corrected and not promote a superior tribe over another in all the lungistical and culturally diverse people of the beautiful Matabeleland that has for so long been purposely marginalized. I agree and allude to the fact that each every tribe should be equally represented nationally and run their regional/ provincial affairs so that there won't be cultural and linguistic segregation leading to its extinction. A fair division by Language, Tribe and geographic proportion of Matabeleland and Midlands Should be agreed upon so that no blinded surprises haunt us in the future all we all have a common goal than just liberation from Zimbabwe. We've done that under a well oiled ZAPU & ZIPRA but we were robbed there is nothing that can stop us United in a purpose for our future. The movement should be centered on the total liberation of all Lingustic, Tribal, Cultural Diversity without exclusion and not centered on "Ndebele".
but he is completely lost he has misinformed information he soun ds like a born free some of his tales dont happen and they seem to come from modern day google distortions.He is off and needs to be guided.Not completely'How he says it is not how it happens.
This guy is so innovatively articulate and has dawned realities in most of us who itched to only have an independent mtheakazi state,,and it's enough ,,no ,,he points that we still will be then faced again by intra issues that would tarnish the independence.Great
he's well spoken, now i understand why Masvingo is just Masvingo as a provinces not mashonaland or manicaland, we are karanga people together with our kalanga brother's, despite the difficulties will remain relatively. We are being forced to lean Zezuru at school while we spaek karanga at home
Beautiful! The solution to strengthening unifying this region is to remove the name Matebeleland and replace with a neutral name not associated with any ethnic group.
but backward.Sotho is already a mixture of different groups venda ,thonga are already a merger of different ethnicity even Xhosa was a forced classification
This is very interesting, of late i personally got to know that most of these people we think are Ndebele are in fact Kalanga people, so yes i understand now where it came from. This very insightful explanation is also telling me that in fact what happened to the Kalanga people happened to the Kalanga Korekore Manyika etc in view of fusing them into Shona. Mtwakazi Movement, well like the interviewee put it, look at South Sudan and Ndebele will now be the culprit just like what Mzilikazi did in the explained journey of pushing Kalanga to the border....question is do we need that in this day and age esp where we now say Mtwakazi as a nation starts to fight against Nambia Kalanga Venda coz they do not have rights of these states as it may be. All the same i feel sorry really for Kalanga because they were rejected from all fronts SA, Zim, Botswana and left them confined to the Bulili Mangwe etc districts in the southwestern Zim but they are a beautiful people. So then do we say Father Zimbabwe fought as a Ndebele yet he is Kalanga actually, Is this correct?
Interesting. As Kalangas/Karangas ( in Shona) we still remain in the North Eastern part of Botswana n we have our cousins, the Ndebeles. Its one of the major ethnic groups in Botswana. So I think all is not lost in Botswana for the Kalangas n Ndebeles, one day we will get there.
@@amuchilanisechaba9001 I feel like people don’t know that factor of how Kalanga is actually spoken country-wide,just that it’s not recognized…they still have a long way to go before iKalanga can be said to be “lost”..I mean even you & I still carry our Kalanga names.
The question of whether the Kalanga or Shona came first is complex and depends on how one defines these groups historically and culturally. Both are Bantu-speaking peoples who share a common ancestry, but they diverged over time due to migration, settlement patterns, and socio-political developments. Here's a breakdown: 1. Kalanga as an Early Group The Kalanga people are considered one of the earliest Bantu-speaking groups to settle in the region now known as western Zimbabwe and eastern Botswana. They are closely associated with ancient civilizations like Mapungubwe (circa 1000 AD) and later Great Zimbabwe (circa 1100-1450 AD), where they played a significant role in trade and governance. Some historians suggest that the Kalanga may have been among the first Bantu-speaking groups to settle in this region, predating the later migrations that led to the rise of the Shona-speaking groups. 2. Shona as a Larger Identity The Shona identity is a broader linguistic and cultural grouping that encompasses many subgroups, including the Zezuru, Karanga, Manyika, and Ndau, among others. The Shona people also have historical ties to Great Zimbabwe and the later Rozvi Empire (circa 17th century). However, the "Shona" as a unified identity emerged much later, partly as a result of colonial classifications. 3. The Connection Between Kalanga and Shona The Kalanga and Shona share linguistic and cultural similarities, indicating they have a common ancestry. Some historians argue that the Kalanga are an older subgroup of the Shona or a related group that diverged early in the Bantu migrations. Linguistic evidence suggests that the Kalanga language is one of the oldest in the region and may have influenced or been influenced by other proto-Shona languages over centuries. 4. Migration and Settlement Patterns Both the Kalanga and the Shona are part of the broader Bantu migrations that began around 2000-3000 years ago. They migrated southward from Central Africa into southern Africa. The Kalanga settled earlier in the southwestern parts of modern Zimbabwe, while the groups that later identified as Shona moved into central and eastern Zimbabwe.
As long as we start dividing ourselves before we archive our goal we won't get anywhere. All this can be discussed after not while we are still fighting a bigger enemy.
Love the discussion gentlemen, and most of the history you all touched on should be taught in schools. I'm all for Matabeleland breaking away from the rest of Zimbabwe and becoming its own country, but how realistic is that? Would it be possible without a Zimbabwe civil war because of ZANU?
Even shonas are fighting one another they’re in groups while they speak similar language shona. Same as MDC and Zanu are 100% Shonas failing to find one another and build Zimbabwe and move Forward some are manyika Mandawa ma kwere And zezuru some are called Mozambiquens shonas this is a long story to solve in Zimbabwe 🇿🇼
If they are fighting, dont be bothered. The Nguni found them there. Mfecane ruined our relationship with the Kalanga when the Nguni invaded us. Even the group of zezuru, nambya, manyika is nonsense yet we were one people, a nation before mfecane
As far as we all know is that Ndebele is a collection of different tribes of which we all don't have a problem with, our main focus should be to liberate Mthwakazi from Mashonaland as far as I know there's no tribalism in Matabeleland we have always lived in harmony anyone who seeks to divide us is no different than the Shonas.
some people who say they are kalanga have sotho ,zulu,shona surnmanes.I honestly think ithis guy is misinformed in theory and history since kalanga are a hybreed some cannot trace if they are of sotho zulu or shona so within in the lost tale a madeup history was invented.It ussually happens when people come from differnt ethnic backrounds happened so some sense of dissilutionment happens and anger and confusion.
At one stage the interviewer asks whether or not breaking up Matabeleland will weaken "us". The interviewer needs to understand that under Mr Moyo's proposal - even Mashonaland will be divided into Zezuru's, Karanga's, Manica's, KoreKore's etc. There wouldn't be a big, dominant Shona group.
I wonder who gave him the right to speak for the Xhosa, Nambiya, Tonga people etc? Can't they speak for themselves. He is romanticising a very difficult problem. What would he propose to do with Ndebele people who are spread right across Matebeleland. How can he claim that Kalanga language is dominant in Tsholotsho. Mthwakazi is Kalanga dominated anyway, he must know this. He says that they can't just cast away the Ndebele.... This is a chilling statement, which the Matebele should not ignore. The fact is, the Matebele and the Kalanga people, have had two directional exogamy marriages for over 100 years. Ndzimu, deliberately has ignored the fact that under the so-called unity agreement some Kalanga elite have and still benefit from the Zimbabwean state. Ndzimu is displacing his anger on the oppressed Matebele. His host has been very kind with him. I would like a debate with Ndzim on points he has raised.
Basing on the way you are looking at the languages I am sure you are aware that Shona is not a language they are 5 or six languages. The different tribes the only difference between the south and northern areas of the country is that so called Shona they can understand each other. The kalanga language is also one of the languages that can be understood by Shona. I love the idea of supporting all Zimbabwean languages and traditions . Your discussion is interesting but I don't know if it is best to form federations . I know it could be good ,but it might also be bad too so it needs to be well thought about. The system in Ethiopia you referred to if already existing in Zimbabwe, the governors provincial administrators and so on is there, I agree that these jobs or responsibilities should be held by locals of the biggest group . But the rest of it I don't know what is best way forward.
I dont think this guy is factually informed.He did not grasp historical information structurally.I think his narrative is built out of anger and based on self governance and him wanting to erase history.This guy is not foward thinking nations have always being coming from nations.he is talking about clans that he does not even know where formed from mergers of other groups.
Guys can I ask as we are kalangas where did we get these surnames Ndlovu Ncube Ngwenya Moyo Nkomo Dube Sibanda etc coz those are Zulu and Ndebele surnames not kalangas but we are using those surnames why ?
It’s because kalangazi are confused people , no confidence in our selves . Shonaz came and we assimilated , zuluz came we assimilated. No confidence at all .
Lobengula himself refused to marginalize or look down upon Kalanga people as he maintained that they formed the greater proportion of his nation. That to me explains the closeness between Kalanga and Ndebeles of Nguni origin. If we went beyond the arrival of Mzilikazi I would not be surprised if the same Kalanga people belonged to different tribes, but were brought together by some visionary leader. Nguni and Kalanga, Venda, Namibia, Karanga, Sotho, Shangaan, Tonga and Tswana people will NEVER be separated on the basis of the good relationship amongst our forefathers. We need to deal with equality in terms of language/cultural treatment, and acknowledge the relevance, importance and fair representation of each subgroups with the bigger Mthwakazi Nation. My apologies is any Mthwakazi tribe, that under the current dispensation, feels oppressed, is excluded from the least a bove.
i think he is clueless and has a distorted version.alot of people who say they are kalanga have zulu sotho shoan surnames so what is he saying.I think he is confused and confusing himself further.Kalanga re a hybreed within ndebele and shona but fall under ndebele.with mzilikazi founding the ndebele nation he absorbed some sotho ,tswana groups and further mixed with the shona groupings aon arrival in zimbabwe.I think the same thing is happening with shangaan.The shona are already a hybreed of different ethnic groups found in zimbabwe.But is he not supposed to be questioning the shona history.His information is distorted in the wrong history.Even within venda theare different ethnicities even with sotho even with Thonga.now those ethnicities will rvault and say they want theie ethnic lanaguges to be recognised.Wich sotho is he talking about.I honestly think this guy is lost because of a lack of understanding of being misinformed
Lobengula could not alienate the Kalanga in their own land vele. He was trying to be nice so that he houses his Ndebele since they ran away from kzn during mfecane. Obvious uzoncenga abantu.
Multiculturalism breeds tribalism. German has one people, the Germans. China is homogenous and yet peaceful. Arabs are on their own despite having different races and nationalities in the gulf but Arabs come first
This is nonsense. Late me explain my word's. In real there's no Matebeleland but Kalanga Land. Please correct that costly mistake / Problem we are Kalangas not Ndebeles this Ndebeleism was first Forced to us by White's. We need Kalanga Broadcasting. This is the main reason why RG Mugabe was always saying Kalangas are uneducated while we are I thank you
We will talk about that after our independence please keep your knowledge to yourself for now as long it doesn't seek to liberate Mthwakazi but have a useful of agenda of trying to divide Mthwakazi. Mthwakazi is a mixture of different tribes it is a simple as all that, no tribalism we are all marginalised by the Shonas every sane person knows that.
One of the reasons they refuse to call it bukalanga North east is that not everybody in that region is kalanga, they are Zulus, Tswana and Zulu cousins Ndebeles.
This is an interesting discussion.I think the host is mistaken to think that what is referred to Mashonaland is one tribe and language. Zezuru is not the same as Karanga, Ndau, Kore kore ,Manyika,Buja, etc. These people are not the same languages as some guys from Matebeleland assume.Probably there are more distinct groups and languages in the so-called Mashonaland than Matebeleland.lm from Midlands and I am neither Zezuru nor Ndebele and believe non of these groups represent my interests. Yes can say the Zezuru have been in power via Mugabe and although we can all be grouped as Shona , Mugabe government has not represented our interests in the Midlands and l am sure the Manyikas or Ndau in Manicaland or Buja in Mutoko will say the same. Furthermore what is referred to as Shona and taught in schools is not necessarily what we would refer to as our own language in Chirumhanzu in the Midlands. So there is more to this issue than one would see at surface level.
Its not about being the same obvious since they dialects they would be different .What one should consider is can they understand each other if one is speaking their dialect ? .Thats what makes a single language .
Hi Ntombie, as a Shona person i am so touched by this narration, i realised there are Kalanga people who have totally abandoned Kalanga and I was trying to say to them lets speak in Kalanga, teach me Kalanga, they said to me we no longer know the language well but i do nt want to view them as Ndebele people, i want to know them as Kalanga and am happy to be part of them but yes what this Moyo guy explained i think its true, Kalanga has almost gone extinct due to effort going back to Mzilikazi. So we cana lebeleka neyiKalanga i agree with you but many esp the Kalanga in my view have accepted to abandon their language, thats sad yet we have powerful traditional issues, places and values identified by Kalanga like Njelele, ummmm
To be honest I think Kalanga people are a hybreed so in their being hybreeds some lost thier ethnic heritage so they term to have a confused explanation.Its similar to shangaan .So within they cannot distinguish wich surname is zulu or tsonga or ndau or sotho.The way this guy describes his tale it's not historically structural and he is not informed on the complete story of the other clans I think he is narrating his tales on assusmptions and a sense of wanting to be independent.
This debate is useless at this time while we are faced with one common enemy as far as I am concerned we the people of Matabeleland have lived in harmony please don't try and distract us from the liberation struggle only Zanu pf will love you for this because they strive on divide and rule.
Even with discussing s.a history and polotics he is lost and directing it to suite his narrative.His narrative will devides sotho people tswana people venda people ,zulu people, xhosa people.He is not informed and is narrating a tale of what he thought happed.Now withing in kalanga the other is of zulu origin what we say ndebele the othe venda the other tswana the other sotho.Now if someone is already nebele within kalanga and the other is of shona aor venda heritage the kalanga ppeople will devide amongst themselves.This guy is going around circles he is nott hinking foward
To be honest I think the guy is misguided with distortions.Kalanga people are a hybrid people.I think he also read alot of Zulu history and is trying to incorporate it in to his distorted version or he is purposely doing it it out of frustration and lack of identity to create a narrative or he is misguided.The oldest people in the now zimabwe can be dated to the rodwi empire wich can be trace to 500 A.D.If talks 2000 years plus back thats a complete lie the only people that can be trace who had already settled are the nguni groups today known as the zulu they migrated down south way before the groups known as the shona migrated tehy around that time wehere still in areas between west africa and the drc..When people are a people made up from different ethnic identities they tend to confused things and also the punishment the ndebele suffered from the hands of the british after they colonised them withte help of the shona cause some ndebel to change their identity to lie in public and secretly acknowledge the zulu /ndebele heritage within closed doors.I south africa you also see it amongst the shangaan wich the nations was also fromed from the incoporation of diferent ethnic groups led by one of shaka's generals so only some are of zulu heritage but the langauge is dominated mostly by the ethnic groups wich where absorbed in to the formation of the shangaan nations but others in south africa opted to be called tsonga wich isa distortion because the nation was united as shangaan and tsonga wich are ethnic to mozambique where one of the smaller clans encoporated in to the new shangaan nation others being ndau other rodzwi others tonga others being zulu who arived with sosshangan who was under shakas command and was sent by him to mozambique hence some have zulu surnames and some words take from zulu added in to the natives of Mozambique and which ever ethnic group was added in to the nation.Just like swazi being originally zulu and when they branched of via Mozambique until they settled and ivaded the now area they reside in and where assisted by the british to be a separate identity from the zulu and the british wanted to secure the gold under a false colonially created kingdom assisted by the british.The british played a major role in destructing what shaka had planned to do in uniting all African groups not just his people the nguni who where based on the clan system but shaka built nationhood and destroyed clan sim hence his proteges mzilikazi sobhuza soshangaan zwangendaba etc followed the same structure even if some distorted the history with help of the colonizer also of greed and wanting self ruled or independence especially after shakas assassination as some of his generals where loyal to him and he was mostly revered as you had to be a tough ruler by then.But honestly I thin the guy with his tails is chancing after smartly crafting a story
@@BukalangaTv The Kalanga likely settled in southern Africa slightly earlier than the larger groups that would later identify as Shona, making them one of the oldest Bantu-speaking groups in the region. However, the two groups share a deep historical and cultural connection, making it more accurate to view them as branches of the same ancestral tree rather than entirely separate entities.
Good debate gentlemen, the Kalanga gentlemen I hope he put on the fight, cause this guy knows what he is talking about. He is an asset. I love his attitude personally. Go forward my brother the light is in your path.
This is informative. Thank you so much for this lecture. I'm Venda and have been confused a lot by the Mthwakazi cessation issue. I was once added in Mthwakazi WhatsApp group, I raised a debate questioning Ndebele dominance over other groups in Matabeleland. Instead of handling my question in a civilised manner, one member insulted me. I responded in Venda asking him to behave like an adult. In response, he said: "Zwanini sesithini, sesikhulumela isiShona". His response was a crystal ball, it foretold me about the politics of exclusion if ever we support cessation...
Very interesting and informative session. The gentlemen is right to say the narrative should be to say lets fight and defeat the enemy on a united front of being diverse people from Matabeleland but as a regional powerhouse. Phase 2 would be to discuss and agree on an equal representation after we have won the battle of self determination and there are many sensible people from all Matabeleland tribes that will ensure this happens. First things first - lets defeat the enemy and all will be well, the stakes are high. Aluta continua!!!!!!!!! I rest my case.
but lost
Very informative sir. As a Kalanga/Ndebele in North Eastern part of Botswana 🇧🇼 , now I am getting learned. Well researched topic n very interesting. But in the Eyes of God we all are one human beings. Why don't we do the same , get rid of pride n unite
One hundred percent.
as a Shona man (karanga/manyika) my family always viewed the kalanga as part of the larger Shona(for lack of a better term at the moment ) family ,i think we as a country should do a better job of build true communal bonds with people exactly the same as us
Shona is a language,,karanga is kalanga
Your knowledge is limited bro
Respectfuly we are not shona please recognize our sovereignty as people as we respect you
We NEED A STRONG NATION PART COMBINED WITH ALL MATEBELELAND TRIBES
A very informative debate. As a united diverse Matabeleland we should all put our minds together and come up with a common solution to defeat the common enemy in our Midst. To achieve that we should all have a sit down and Map what will happen pre and post this dream. Now I do understand when other ethnic groups raise potent issues that by default that Shona and Ndebele were made national languages they have contributed to the National tribal segregation "Shona" and regional Tribal segregation "Ndebele" by default whether by design, directly or indirectly and the two domant languages have benefited from that by design. I hope we will all come together as civilized people and put our differences aside for the sake of the common objective that has been the deliberate Shona dominion and displacement of all the people's of Matabeleland entrached in the 1979 Grand Plan. The choice to side with oppressors against the oppressed or with abusers against the abused or predators against the preyed will always be a choice. Not a circumstance in which people are forced. The decision to choose is the exercise of a rationalised option to obtain a benefit that I hope will be corrected and not promote a superior tribe over another in all the lungistical and culturally diverse people of the beautiful Matabeleland that has for so long been purposely marginalized. I agree and allude to the fact that each every tribe should be equally represented nationally and run their regional/ provincial affairs so that there won't be cultural and linguistic segregation leading to its extinction. A fair division by Language, Tribe and geographic proportion of Matabeleland and Midlands Should be agreed upon so that no blinded surprises haunt us in the future all we all have a common goal than just liberation from Zimbabwe. We've done that under a well oiled ZAPU & ZIPRA but we were robbed there is nothing that can stop us United in a purpose for our future. The movement should be centered on the total liberation of all Lingustic, Tribal, Cultural Diversity without exclusion and not centered on "Ndebele".
but he is completely lost he has misinformed information he soun ds like a born free some of his tales dont happen and they seem to come from modern day google distortions.He is off and needs to be guided.Not completely'How he says it is not how it happens.
This guy is so innovatively articulate and has dawned realities in most of us who itched to only have an independent mtheakazi state,,and it's enough ,,no ,,he points that we still will be then faced again by intra issues that would tarnish the independence.Great
Yena ukhuluma iqiniso ngoba labo kumele bafundisa abantwana babo usiko lwabo
i think it is a sad reality
KNOWING THYSELF IS ESSENTIAL AND THE FEELING AND SENSE OF BELONGING MAKES YOU FEEL GREAT AND THE3 TRUTH IS A POWERFULL CARD I THANK YOU GOD BLESS YOU
We need guys like you my brother where are all what say is 100% true
What a leader i vote you to lead the Mthwakazi struggle.
he's well spoken, now i understand why Masvingo is just Masvingo as a provinces not mashonaland or manicaland, we are karanga people together with our kalanga brother's, despite the difficulties will remain relatively. We are being forced to lean Zezuru at school while we spaek karanga at home
this was very educational !!
Beautiful! The solution to strengthening unifying this region is to remove the name Matebeleland and replace with a neutral name not associated with any ethnic group.
100% correct
No matebele is a historic name given to us by Sotho people it wont work
but backward.Sotho is already a mixture of different groups venda ,thonga are already a merger of different ethnicity even Xhosa was a forced classification
This is very interesting, of late i personally got to know that most of these people we think are Ndebele are in fact Kalanga people, so yes i understand now where it came from. This very insightful explanation is also telling me that in fact what happened to the Kalanga people happened to the Kalanga Korekore Manyika etc in view of fusing them into Shona. Mtwakazi Movement, well like the interviewee put it, look at South Sudan and Ndebele will now be the culprit just like what Mzilikazi did in the explained journey of pushing Kalanga to the border....question is do we need that in this day and age esp where we now say Mtwakazi as a nation starts to fight against Nambia Kalanga Venda coz they do not have rights of these states as it may be. All the same i feel sorry really for Kalanga because they were rejected from all fronts SA, Zim, Botswana and left them confined to the Bulili Mangwe etc districts in the southwestern Zim but they are a beautiful people. So then do we say Father Zimbabwe fought as a Ndebele yet he is Kalanga actually, Is this correct?
Thank you for your insight
Interesting. As Kalangas/Karangas ( in Shona) we still remain in the North Eastern part of Botswana n we have our cousins, the Ndebeles. Its one of the major ethnic groups in Botswana. So I think all is not lost in Botswana for the Kalangas n Ndebeles, one day we will get there.
@@amuchilanisechaba9001 I feel like people don’t know that factor of how Kalanga is actually spoken country-wide,just that it’s not recognized…they still have a long way to go before iKalanga can be said to be “lost”..I mean even you & I still carry our Kalanga names.
@@amuchilanisechaba9001 Bukalanga not Bukaranga we don't have an R in our vocabulary.
@bulelanitshuma7665 Yes, hence, after writing the word Karangas , I wrote " ( in Shona)" in Zim they are called Karangas. Thanks
Lests unite the why okhokho bethu babenjalo,,,babemumye ngezikhathi zika mambo,lomzilikazi wenza ngokufanayo,,,lenkosi ulobengula wasibusa ngokufa ayo kusukela ku mfula Usha she (present Botswana North East) to munyathi river (izhombe emnyama,okuyindawo eyayiphethwe ngumambo,yabuya yaphathwa nguzilikazi,yatcina iphethwe ngulobengula(isizwe sikamthwakazi sidinga ukuba sibe hliziyonye
The question of whether the Kalanga or Shona came first is complex and depends on how one defines these groups historically and culturally. Both are Bantu-speaking peoples who share a common ancestry, but they diverged over time due to migration, settlement patterns, and socio-political developments. Here's a breakdown:
1. Kalanga as an Early Group
The Kalanga people are considered one of the earliest Bantu-speaking groups to settle in the region now known as western Zimbabwe and eastern Botswana.
They are closely associated with ancient civilizations like Mapungubwe (circa 1000 AD) and later Great Zimbabwe (circa 1100-1450 AD), where they played a significant role in trade and governance.
Some historians suggest that the Kalanga may have been among the first Bantu-speaking groups to settle in this region, predating the later migrations that led to the rise of the Shona-speaking groups.
2. Shona as a Larger Identity
The Shona identity is a broader linguistic and cultural grouping that encompasses many subgroups, including the Zezuru, Karanga, Manyika, and Ndau, among others.
The Shona people also have historical ties to Great Zimbabwe and the later Rozvi Empire (circa 17th century). However, the "Shona" as a unified identity emerged much later, partly as a result of colonial classifications.
3. The Connection Between Kalanga and Shona
The Kalanga and Shona share linguistic and cultural similarities, indicating they have a common ancestry. Some historians argue that the Kalanga are an older subgroup of the Shona or a related group that diverged early in the Bantu migrations.
Linguistic evidence suggests that the Kalanga language is one of the oldest in the region and may have influenced or been influenced by other proto-Shona languages over centuries.
4. Migration and Settlement Patterns
Both the Kalanga and the Shona are part of the broader Bantu migrations that began around 2000-3000 years ago. They migrated southward from Central Africa into southern Africa.
The Kalanga settled earlier in the southwestern parts of modern Zimbabwe, while the groups that later identified as Shona moved into central and eastern Zimbabwe.
As long as we start dividing ourselves before we archive our goal we won't get anywhere. All this can be discussed after not while we are still fighting a bigger enemy.
Love the discussion gentlemen, and most of the history you all touched on should be taught in schools.
I'm all for Matabeleland breaking away from the rest of Zimbabwe and becoming its own country, but how realistic is that? Would it be possible without a Zimbabwe civil war because of ZANU?
Wooow inkalnga Dumbu
Diversity is not necessarily a weakening element but a source of strength. Respecting diversity eliminates disharmony and strengthens co-operation.
Even shonas are fighting one another they’re in groups while they speak similar language shona. Same as MDC and Zanu are 100% Shonas failing to find one another and build Zimbabwe and move Forward some are manyika Mandawa ma kwere And zezuru some are called Mozambiquens shonas this is a long story to solve in Zimbabwe 🇿🇼
If they are fighting, dont be bothered. The Nguni found them there. Mfecane ruined our relationship with the Kalanga when the Nguni invaded us. Even the group of zezuru, nambya, manyika is nonsense yet we were one people, a nation before mfecane
United we stand divided we fall
Very learned arguement.
It's unfair to rally MRP around Matebele or Mazilikazi. Because life did not start there. That's where it faulters
As far as we all know is that Ndebele is a collection of different tribes of which we all don't have a problem with, our main focus should be to liberate Mthwakazi from Mashonaland as far as I know there's no tribalism in Matabeleland we have always lived in harmony anyone who seeks to divide us is no different than the Shonas.
some people who say they are kalanga have sotho ,zulu,shona surnmanes.I honestly think ithis guy is misinformed in theory and history since kalanga are a hybreed some cannot trace if they are of sotho zulu or shona so within in the lost tale a madeup history was invented.It ussually happens when people come from differnt ethnic backrounds happened so some sense of dissilutionment happens and anger and confusion.
It’s about time that Africa unites
At one stage the interviewer asks whether or not breaking up Matabeleland will weaken "us". The interviewer needs to understand that under Mr Moyo's proposal - even Mashonaland will be divided into Zezuru's, Karanga's, Manica's, KoreKore's etc. There wouldn't be a big, dominant Shona group.
Exactly
I wonder who gave him the right to speak for the Xhosa, Nambiya, Tonga people etc? Can't they speak for themselves. He is romanticising a very difficult problem. What would he propose to do with Ndebele people who are spread right across Matebeleland. How can he claim that Kalanga language is dominant in Tsholotsho. Mthwakazi is Kalanga dominated anyway, he must know this. He says that they can't just cast away the Ndebele.... This is a chilling statement, which the Matebele should not ignore. The fact is, the Matebele and the Kalanga people, have had two directional exogamy marriages for over 100 years. Ndzimu, deliberately has ignored the fact that under the so-called unity agreement some Kalanga elite have and still benefit from the Zimbabwean state. Ndzimu is displacing his anger on the oppressed Matebele. His host has been very kind with him. I would like a debate with Ndzim on points he has raised.
Ikalanga is still standing.
Lebeswa
Wadusa malebeswa tjoselele malebeswa akatambuluka.
To boka tjose
Basing on the way you are looking at the languages I am sure you are aware that Shona is not a language they are 5 or six languages. The different tribes the only difference between the south and northern areas of the country is that so called Shona they can understand each other. The kalanga language is also one of the languages that can be understood by Shona. I love the idea of supporting all Zimbabwean languages and traditions . Your discussion is interesting but I don't know if it is best to form federations . I know it could be good ,but it might also be bad too so it needs to be well thought about. The system in Ethiopia you referred to if already existing in Zimbabwe, the governors provincial administrators and so on is there, I agree that these jobs or responsibilities should be held by locals of the biggest group . But the rest of it I don't know what is best way forward.
I dont think this guy is factually informed.He did not grasp historical information structurally.I think his narrative is built out of anger and based on self governance and him wanting to erase history.This guy is not foward thinking nations have always being coming from nations.he is talking about clans that he does not even know where formed from mergers of other groups.
We must remove zanu first if you want freedom in Zimbabwe
Interesting stuff
Its hard to comfine kalangas ro bulilma mangwe
who are the Ndebele then
12:00 !! That part!
I believe this is the same thing that they did with IsiXhosa too
Guys can I ask as we are kalangas where did we get these surnames Ndlovu Ncube Ngwenya Moyo Nkomo Dube Sibanda etc coz those are Zulu and Ndebele surnames not kalangas but we are using those surnames why ?
It’s because kalangazi are confused people , no confidence in our selves . Shonaz came and we assimilated , zuluz came we assimilated. No confidence at all .
We got them from totems "mutopa" Fam
Lobengula himself refused to marginalize or look down upon Kalanga people as he maintained that they formed the greater proportion of his nation. That to me explains the closeness between Kalanga and Ndebeles of Nguni origin. If we went beyond the arrival of Mzilikazi I would not be surprised if the same Kalanga people belonged to different tribes, but were brought together by some visionary leader. Nguni and Kalanga, Venda, Namibia, Karanga, Sotho, Shangaan, Tonga and Tswana people will NEVER be separated on the basis of the good relationship amongst our forefathers. We need to deal with equality in terms of language/cultural treatment, and acknowledge the relevance, importance and fair representation of each subgroups with the bigger Mthwakazi Nation. My apologies is any Mthwakazi tribe, that under the current dispensation, feels oppressed, is excluded from the least a bove.
i think he is clueless and has a distorted version.alot of people who say they are kalanga have zulu sotho shoan surnames so what is he saying.I think he is confused and confusing himself further.Kalanga re a hybreed within ndebele and shona but fall under ndebele.with mzilikazi founding the ndebele nation he absorbed some sotho ,tswana groups and further mixed with the shona groupings aon arrival in zimbabwe.I think the same thing is happening with shangaan.The shona are already a hybreed of different ethnic groups found in zimbabwe.But is he not supposed to be questioning the shona history.His information is distorted in the wrong history.Even within venda theare different ethnicities even with sotho even with Thonga.now those ethnicities will rvault and say they want theie ethnic lanaguges to be recognised.Wich sotho is he talking about.I honestly think this guy is lost because of a lack of understanding of being misinformed
Lobengula could not alienate the Kalanga in their own land vele. He was trying to be nice so that he houses his Ndebele since they ran away from kzn during mfecane. Obvious uzoncenga abantu.
But tsholotsho can not change because we speak 100% ndebele with about five nguni chiefs & 0ne lozwi chief.
Amabizo endawo ayachaza ukuthi indawo yona abantu abahlala khona bayimihlobo bani. Nguni chiefs bafakwa ngesizatho ababephezulu kwaso
Ngokwazi kwami amakhalanga yiwo futhi owathola engamaNdebele akhona ngoba nxa usithi amaNdebele aseZimbabwe uyabe usitsho wona amaKhalanga yiwo ahleli phambili yiwaphi amandebele nxa ungasabali amaTonga lamaVenda labeSuthu lazo zonke izizwe zamaTshangani ama Nambya lamaDombe lamaSankwe lama Xhosa zonke lezizizwe yikho zaziyilizwe eliqinileyo elezizwe ezibambeneyo njengezase 🇺🇸 yikho lama Shona lawo ngale a hlangana enza lawo eyawo i United tribes . Yebo kambe sikukhangele syakubona ukuvuka lokuphaphama kwendoda lyana abayshaya baytshiya ivuvuke ubuso lesilevu kungakhanyi abantu abayidobhayo babuzana bathi Amakhalanga?
This man is very clued up.
lost
Tswanafication in Botswana won't last. Multiculturalism is a good thing
I totally agree with you
Multiculturalism breeds tribalism. German has one people, the Germans. China is homogenous and yet peaceful. Arabs are on their own despite having different races and nationalities in the gulf but Arabs come first
This is nonsense. Late me explain my word's. In real there's no Matebeleland but Kalanga Land. Please correct that costly mistake / Problem we are Kalangas not Ndebeles this Ndebeleism was first Forced to us by White's. We need Kalanga Broadcasting.
This is the main reason why RG Mugabe was always saying Kalangas are uneducated while we are
I thank you
Hi sir if you're Nkomo it means you're Ndebele that surname comes from khumalos why you say you're kalanga pls explain
@@thesmart007 you dont know what you are talking about. Didn't he say Ndebele was forced on them? Idi**t
@@thesmart007no fam nkomo/kgomo/Nyathi are kalanga but origin 🤦♂️
We will talk about that after our independence please keep your knowledge to yourself for now as long it doesn't seek to liberate Mthwakazi but have a useful of agenda of trying to divide Mthwakazi. Mthwakazi is a mixture of different tribes it is a simple as all that, no tribalism we are all marginalised by the Shonas every sane person knows that.
This guy is completely lost.Born free with imaginary tales
One of the reasons they refuse to call it bukalanga North east is that not everybody in that region is kalanga, they are Zulus, Tswana and Zulu cousins Ndebeles.
This is an interesting discussion.I think the host is mistaken to think that what is referred to Mashonaland is one tribe and language. Zezuru is not the same as Karanga, Ndau, Kore kore ,Manyika,Buja, etc. These people are not the same languages as some guys from Matebeleland assume.Probably there are more distinct groups and languages in the so-called Mashonaland than Matebeleland.lm from Midlands and I am neither Zezuru nor Ndebele and believe non of these groups represent my interests. Yes can say the Zezuru have been in power via Mugabe and although we can all be grouped as Shona , Mugabe government has not represented our interests in the Midlands and l am sure the Manyikas or Ndau in Manicaland or Buja in Mutoko will say the same. Furthermore what is referred to as Shona and taught in schools is not necessarily what we would refer to as our own language in Chirumhanzu in the Midlands. So there is more to this issue than one would see at surface level.
Its not about being the same obvious since they dialects they would be different .What one should consider is can they understand each other if one is speaking their dialect ? .Thats what makes a single language .
Tokumbila mulebeleke neyikalanga plizzz
Hi Ntombie, as a Shona person i am so touched by this narration, i realised there are Kalanga people who have totally abandoned Kalanga and I was trying to say to them lets speak in Kalanga, teach me Kalanga, they said to me we no longer know the language well but i do nt want to view them as Ndebele people, i want to know them as Kalanga and am happy to be part of them but yes what this Moyo guy explained i think its true, Kalanga has almost gone extinct due to effort going back to Mzilikazi. So we cana lebeleka neyiKalanga i agree with you but many esp the Kalanga in my view have accepted to abandon their language, thats sad yet we have powerful traditional issues, places and values identified by Kalanga like Njelele, ummmm
Uyahlanya wena baba msuzo wakho gunkurahundist why you kill people
To be honest I think Kalanga people are a hybreed so in their being hybreeds some lost thier ethnic heritage so they term to have a confused explanation.Its similar to shangaan .So within they cannot distinguish wich surname is zulu or tsonga or ndau or sotho.The way this guy describes his tale it's not historically structural and he is not informed on the complete story of the other clans I think he is narrating his tales on assusmptions and a sense of wanting to be independent.
This debate is useless at this time while we are faced with one common enemy as far as I am concerned we the people of Matabeleland have lived in harmony please don't try and distract us from the liberation struggle only Zanu pf will love you for this because they strive on divide and rule.
Even with discussing s.a history and polotics he is lost and directing it to suite his narrative.His narrative will devides sotho people tswana people venda people ,zulu people, xhosa people.He is not informed and is narrating a tale of what he thought happed.Now withing in kalanga the other is of zulu origin what we say ndebele the othe venda the other tswana the other sotho.Now if someone is already nebele within kalanga and the other is of shona aor venda heritage the kalanga ppeople will devide amongst themselves.This guy is going around circles he is nott hinking foward
To be honest I think the guy is misguided with distortions.Kalanga people are a hybrid people.I think he also read alot of Zulu history and is trying to incorporate it in to his distorted version or he is purposely doing it it out of frustration and lack of identity to create a narrative or he is misguided.The oldest people in the now zimabwe can be dated to the rodwi empire wich can be trace to 500 A.D.If talks 2000 years plus back thats a complete lie the only people that can be trace who had already settled are the nguni groups today known as the zulu they migrated down south way before the groups known as the shona migrated tehy around that time wehere still in areas between west africa and the drc..When people are a people made up from different ethnic identities they tend to confused things and also the punishment the ndebele suffered from the hands of the british after they colonised them withte help of the shona cause some ndebel to change their identity to lie in public and secretly acknowledge the zulu /ndebele heritage within closed doors.I south africa you also see it amongst the shangaan wich the nations was also fromed from the incoporation of diferent ethnic groups led by one of shaka's generals so only some are of zulu heritage but the langauge is dominated mostly by the ethnic groups wich where absorbed in to the formation of the shangaan nations but others in south africa opted to be called tsonga wich isa distortion because the nation was united as shangaan and tsonga wich are ethnic to mozambique where one of the smaller clans encoporated in to the new shangaan nation others being ndau other rodzwi others tonga others being zulu who arived with sosshangan who was under shakas command and was sent by him to mozambique hence some have zulu surnames and some words take from zulu added in to the natives of Mozambique and which ever ethnic group was added in to the nation.Just like swazi being originally zulu and when they branched of via Mozambique until they settled and ivaded the now area they reside in and where assisted by the british to be a separate identity from the zulu and the british wanted to secure the gold under a false colonially created kingdom assisted by the british.The british played a major role in destructing what shaka had planned to do in uniting all African groups not just his people the nguni who where based on the clan system but shaka built nationhood and destroyed clan sim hence his proteges mzilikazi sobhuza soshangaan zwangendaba etc followed the same structure even if some distorted the history with help of the colonizer also of greed and wanting self ruled or independence especially after shakas assassination as some of his generals where loyal to him and he was mostly revered as you had to be a tough ruler by then.But honestly I thin the guy with his tails is chancing after smartly crafting a story
100% true
@@BukalangaTv The Kalanga likely settled in southern Africa slightly earlier than the larger groups that would later identify as Shona, making them one of the oldest Bantu-speaking groups in the region. However, the two groups share a deep historical and cultural connection, making it more accurate to view them as branches of the same ancestral tree rather than entirely separate entities.
Aa fuseki wena fuseki fuseki hamba
You can make your argument without insulting anyone
We need guys like you my brother where are all what say is 100% true