That's possibly the best breakdown of the advantages and disadvantages of shutter modes I've seen. As always provided by you a great video - many thanks matey
To me you're the definition of the word "Teacher". Whenever I need to refresh my memory or learn new things, your channel is the first place to visit. Thank you for doing these videos.
You are without any doubt, the nicest birdwatcher I have seen. Almost every other birdwatcher I see doesn’t seem to reveal they make mistakes too and have lots of bad shots. You make us seem like any camera is welcome in terms of taking good bird photos. Hats off to you!
Thanks, you are too kind, we are all human and make mistakes all the time. It is trying to enjoy the process and accept the mistakes as part of the journey. Have fun, Cheers, Duade 👍
When I saw the title, I thought the video might just be a rant (which would be out of character). Instead, that was a balanced and really informative discussion of the shutter modes. Thanks and well done.
Thanks Andy, I must admit thumbnails and titles are the hardest part of UA-cam, it really is an artform to itself on what people click on and what they don't. Cheers, Duade
I bought the R7 + RF 100-500 six months ago as my first serious wildlife photography camera. As a beginner, it has been an amazing combo. However, as I have learned more and improved my skills, I have become frustrated with the low-light performance, shutter shock, and rolling shutter. I've decided to buy a R5, but wanted to go back and look at R7 reviews as well to confirm that I was making the right choice. This video definitely helped me confirm my decision, yet I cannot stress enough that the R7 is amazing for the price. Fun Fact: I just noticed that I'm using the same lens skin on the 100-500! 😆
Thanks for the feedback and great to hear you are enjoying the videos. The R5 is a wonderful camera and a nice upgrade from the R7. Have fun with it, yes the camo is great. Cheers, Duade
My word, you've nailed it in this video. A briefing sections for someone who don't understand the concept yet, to the full explanation in one single video. Well done 👏👏👏 Edit: 7:29 is so bizarre yet a perfect example for rolling shutter in a still shoot.
"I'm not an expert"...after he documents and analyzes every combination and known issues with EVERYTHING. Ya, new sub here, and maybe a member soon. Thank you Duade.
Hi Duade! You have an excellent channel and did a great overview of the R7 rolling shutter issue. I have an R7 and use the100-500RF. However I don't find the rolling shutter as much of a problem and even prefer to shoot on ES with slower flying birds like ducks, herons, cormorants, pelicans, gulls, skimmers, even some shorebirds, turn off the IS on the lens (is not needed at shutter speeds of 3200 or more anyway, IBIS distortion gone) and shoot in H+ mode for 30fps just shoot until the buffer is full. More photos = more keepers. I use a fast kensington SDXC UHS-II card so the buffer is cleared fast. With hummingbirds that's another story, horrible rolling shutter with the r7, EFCS there is needed absolutely, in that mode H+ gets 15fps and that is fast too anyway. So I have Custom mode 1 with ES for slow birds and Custom mode 2 with EFCS for hummingbirds. My two cents!! Keep the good work!!! - Greetings from Panama!!!
This video is, without a doubt, the most comprehensive and enjoyable tutorial on the subject I've seen to date. And actually, I don't believe there is anyone out there who will challenge making a better one. Yours is one of my favorite channels. Anyhow, as a sport photographer, I still find it gratifying to aim that long lens at an athlete, press the shutter release, and hear that loud machine gun sound. The Nikon camera I use makes no sound except for synthesized sound, if the user chooses. With that turned off, one would have no audible feedback so the company has implemented a thin red line on the boarder of the EVF to indicate you are shooting. Thanks again Duade , Ted in Sebastian, Fl.
I was going to upgrade from my 7d mk2 for a R7 but I think I will wait until these mirror less cameras come up to speed and sort out these issues, there a bit like electric cars they are new kids on the block and need time to sort out . Very good video well explained.
You can have audible feedback for electronic shooting on the R7! I really did not like the complete silence when shooting but I came across another UA-camr (Wild Alaska) who mentioned that changing the "silent shooting off" and changing the volume of the sound does apply to electronic. I set the volume to 1 so it was still low enough to hopefully not disturb wildlife yet I could hear it when the camera was at my face. I was so much more comfortable with electronic after that!
Fantastically well researched and presented video Duade, I can absolutely see it becoming a resource for the wildlife photographer community long into the future whenever someone has questions about this topic. Cheers!
Great explanation. I had all the problems you described and decided on electronic first curtain without knowing why. Now I have a reason. I got drastic and interesting rolling shutter photographing a hummingbird with full electronic and this caused me to see if I could capture the action with less problem. With a cooperative hummingbird I was able to experiment and found the same results you described. Now I know what to do, when, and why and use the rolling shutter for its artistic effects when I want to. Thanks again😊
Wow! You put a LOT into this presentation!! Thanks for everything you do for the benefit of others!!! The chart was most informative across the board for everyone watching and your condensed yet thorough explanation of the different aspects related to shutter operations is a must see for every photographer!! (I know...the exclamation marks are getting redundant, but you really knocked this one out-of-the-park!) Thanks, Duade!!!
Thanks Chris, you are too kind, I am happy to hear it was helpful and will be to others going forward, I learnt a lot too which is great. Cheers, Duade
I loved seeing a 40D. That's still my daily driver. Currently torn between upgrading to a 90D or an R7. Your videos have been very helpful and informative
R7 here from Austria. The shutter broke after 1 Month of mechanical usage, was repaired on warranty. So now I'm shooting electronically :-) . Works great for me. Great video Duade!
Thank you Duade! This is by far the best breakdown video of various shutter modes. And also love the way you include us subscribers as well. Looking forward to more videos!
I just wanted to echo others in saying thanks for efforts and time you go to to illustrate the many variables associated with wildlife photography. You are out there on your own with the quality and depth you present to help us with out techniques and decision making. Thank you.
@@Duade well deserved feedback Duade. My concerns about the r7 at release made me jump to the xh2s and adapted sigma 150-600mm. I havnt seen any noticeable warping yet thanks to the stacked sensor. V sharp too as no AA filter unlike the R7. Thanks again for your help in deciding.
Always interested in your comments about the R7 as I have one, and reassured by your balanced presentation on other camera performance. I realized the specs on the R7 would be less than the significantly more expensive R5 or R3, so accept that the performance would be lower in comparison. But also feel better knowing that all mirrorless cameras currently suffer some issues. Looking forward to your thoughts about optimizing the R7 within its limitations. Your videos are really helpful.
Nice video. I had discussed this subject I a few videos about how the sensor readout speed on many cameras is the root of the rolling shutter issue. And you drove that point home in a video of its own. Glad you made this video. Personal shake and the IBIS are very important to remember as you stated. My non RS keeper is closer to 70% vs your 40+% and you described that well by being shakier with the long lenses plus using the EF 500 for less IS wobble. Thanks again for a detailed video.
My pleasure mate, yep, I suspect the slow readout impacts the AF of the R7 also. Yeah, I shake a lot which does impact shots, my keeper rate on the R5 is much higher which is interesting. Cheers, Duade
Great video , I will be using my R7 in first curtain , I am going on a safary soon and I move from a 90d to the R7 ( 90d will be my back up) using a Tamron 100-400
thanks Duade, i now know all about rolling shutter. what a mine of useful info, your videos are very watchable, i know all sorts of useful stuff, mainly from watching your channel, one of the best photo channels on the tube.. thanks again 😎
Thanks a lot for your thorough research and well produced video as always. I definitely learned a few things! The key question really is what the specific SS does even EFCS produce some shutter shock (as honestly I never noticed any downsides to EFCS vs mechanical and probably never will, I never use mechanical). I've heard anywhere from 1/200 to 1/500 is the limit where it is still kind of noticeable. Or maybe it was 1/200 for EFCS and 1/500 for mechanical. Typically 1/640 is the threshold I set myself, but realistically if I'm using EFCS it's for action, so I almost exclusively shoot at way higher SS than that. This will obviously be different for every camera, my numbers are for the R7. This video is very good at explaining the difference between BSI and stacked sensors which people often confuse. As we can see rolling shutter can still be pretty bad with a BSI sensor. It'll be interesting to see where the R6ii lands. Canon says they've improved it so perhaps somewhere closer to the R5, which would be nice! People were frustrated learning the R6ii didn't have a stacked sensor (false rumors are partly to blame here) and I've heard some people saying things along the lines of "I can't believe it doesn't have a stacked sensor in 2022 for 2500$. But when you look at what's actually out there, there are currently only 7 cameras ever produced that have a stacked sensor. Out of the 5 that are FF (all Nikon/Sony/Canon flagships plus the two a9s), all of them are at least double the price of the R6ii. People definitely set their expectations too high for that price range. Really, stacked sensor is the true distinguishing feature of today's modern flagships. As much as I would want a stacked sensor in my next camera upgrade, it will probably take at least a full generation or two until that technology becomes more affordable. Some people have said that some new fancy feature will need to be brought to a new flagship generation and become the "next big thing" until we can see stacked sensors trickle down to lower tier cameras, which I kind of agree with. Otherwise why buy an R3, which a lot of pros are indeed buying right now. Sensor readout speed also has a couple more advantages, the most notable being a faster AF response time. Even mechanical can't save you from that and it's no surprise that the R3 and A1's capabilities for ultra fast AF responsiveness are superior to pretty much any non stacked sensor camera. It's no surprise the R3 has the best AF of all the R cameras even though they all have the same DiGIC X processor. While sensor size could be an explanation for the slightly inferior AF in the R7 compared to say the R5/6, sensor speed could be a reason as well. At this point personally I would gladly prefer a 24mp APSC with faster readout than the current 33mp, which some articles have said doesn't even scale that well in terms of true resolution (vague term but with some truth to it). It's pretty clear we don't truly get a full 30% increase in detail and cropping ability with those 30% extra pixels, there are great articles out there explaining why. In any case it does seem unlikely to me that the R7ii will have a stacked sensor, unless there is quite a big jump in price. Sometime in the future we might see the first affordable stacked canon camera come to APSC first though. Who knows when that'll be. Fuji has already done it but they put major RnD in it and Canon might be more interested in FF for now (R5ii and R1 probably being next) just like Sony is atm. A slightly faster 24mp APSC would be nice, but they might not go that route as customers could be confused and see it as a downgrade. Having useful 30fps for action would be super awesome, especially with pre capture mode. I've been pretty disappointed with the results overall of pre-capture mode so far, even when the usability quirks taken out of the equation. I believe it also reduces images to 10 bit which could be part of the reason as well. Rolling shutter is obviously the worst thing about it and it might even be worse in that mode, hard to tell. Anyway, enough rambling, cheers Duade! 🙂
Thanks mate agree with everything you have said and yes the difference in AF performance must be correlated to the slow read out speed as the difference between the R7 and R5 is noticeable. I also get more keepers on the R5 than the R7 at slow shutter speeds which I can't really explain either. They are saying the R62 is 40% faster which must mean it is around the 12.4ms 1/80 which would be very fast for FSI sensor. At worse it will be the same as the R5 but I believe it will be better. The pre burst feature is not very good in its current form, mainly that you have to wait for the buffer to clear before you can start shooting again which means it is useless for me as I feather the shutter. I am just starting on the R7 full review so feel free to send me your best shot with the camera and maybe your pros and cons to duade.paton@gmail.com, no pressure if you are unable. Cheers, Duade
@@doghouseriley4732 eh, it's about 55-60ish I believe with cRAW and feathering it it's completely fine. Idk if you've used the R7 but while a bigger buffer would be nice, 30fps is certainly useful enough for me to always use it when I'm on electronic at this point. I started at 15 fps like many being scared of the buffer, switched after some time to 30 and never switched back as the buffer didn't bother me much after all. You learn to adapt to it. Really the biggest disadvantage of 30fps on the R7 isn't the buffer, it's having so many files to sort through 😅 double edged sword as with lenses with good ois you can go to super low SS and often land a sharp shot of a bird if you spray and pray. It's a lot of effort in post but it allows me to get pictures in low light that would be impossible otherwise. And even in good light it's extremely useful if you're after "that pose" for a certain bird species. With birds that move a lot and have a certain feature you might want to show on their head, tail, back, etc., Having 30fps has been super useful for getting that one moment where it struck the perfect pose. But coming back to your comment, I find 30fps electronic more than usable. Even if I had unlimited buffer I don't think I would take that many more pictures as I do fill up my dual 128gb fast enough as it is! Perched birds often move around a lot and over time you learn to feather the shutter to only capture the moments where you have eye contact for example. And feathering + good V90 cards means in most situations I barely ever hit the buffer. Don't get me wrong I would be glad to have CFE and bigger buffer, but the 30fps is far from a gimmick. If there's one thing I'd fix first, it's the somewhat slower readout speed. Like I said earlier I'd trade a few MPs for a faster readout speed personally. Not sure I'd pay the premium for the price of stacked sensors in their current state now. I'm just hoping someday the tech becomes more affordable. For wildlife specifically, it's hard to argue against the fact that Canon pretty much knocked it out of the park with the R7 at its price point and state of the market in camera bodies. Despite its flaws it's still (probably) the best animal eye AF in any APSC ever, and is pretty much good enough or great in almost every category for a camera. The only way they could've made it better at that price point would've been a 24mp faster sensor I think, anything else I hear people complaining about would've meant a higher price. (Well, I'd take dual CFE cards anyday which could've been possible too, but maybe that would've turned off broader audiences from buying it?).
@@doghouseriley4732 Glad you're happy with it! It looks like a very nice camera and it's a major leap forward for Fuji for sure, especially for wildlife. It's exciting to see what they bring to the market. That xtrans sensor is a fabulous piece of tech, I've read a few articles on all the RnD they put into it and it's impressive to say the least. I had definitely looked at it when buying the R7 but landed myself at around 2k pounds equivalent for the R7+18-150 kit (which I really like!)+Sigma 150-600C (which I already owned). I decided I couldn't justify the 2x jump in price and switching brands. Reviews on the animal eye AF were mixed (and still are to my knowledge) so I didn't risk it as that was a total no compromise thing for me. To this day I haven't found any proper side by side comparison of the two in animal eye AF, but if you have any please send them my way! Only read from a couple people that while a major leap forward (we all know Fuji's track record on AF), but some are still resorting to MF and peaking for critical shots which I personally never want to have to bother with in a million years. I'm very happy with my combo. I'm completely spoiled by the animal eye AF and that feature alone totally justified locking myself to the closed RF system for now, though I am confident 3rd parties are going to come to RF somewhere down the line. It's frustrating for now for sure and I make sure to tell people to be cautious of getting into EOS R nowadays, for many non-wildlife shooters I think looking elsewhere is a better option for lens selection alone and other points you have mentioned. Whenever I see other fellow wildlife shooters still using MF and/or the old AF system and their results/keeper rates, I'm always struck by how much I'm truly spoiled by good AF. My heart goes out to those shooters because I definitely don't have the skills to get some of the results I still see coming out of DSLRs and Panasonics on MF, but can't help but feel like I have it so much easier than them at getting it right in camera and not having to rely on Topaz for slight focus inaccuracies (which as we know still yields suboptimal results). Looking back on my old pics as well, I had never realized how ever so slightly OOF eyes I was getting before and it's definitely set the bar higher for my own expectations in my photography. Game changing is the word when it comes to animal eye AF! I will never go back to anything else after having tried it that's for sure. But for good animal eye AF on APSC the R7 and xH2S are pretty much the only two options on the market atm as far as I know (Sony doesn't have much atm and I'm out of the loop on Nikon), and like I said you can squeeze a very good R7 kit at half the price, that's not negligible! I really like cRAW. From reviews of it confirmed with my own testing the only differences can be seen by some minor artifacts when adjusting the exposure to about 4-5 stops in post and more. Personally I've never had to go above 2-3 stops in post (shooting auto ISO, 3 is the most you can go with exposure comp anyway) and the differences are completely unnoticeable there. Like you said, I'm one of those that can pretty much state as fact that it's ''just as good" for sure, all the major Canon wildlife UA-camrs seem to have landed to that conclusion as well as independent reviewers. Oh and btw the R7 is 30fps max, I'm not dialing down anything. 30fps is by far the mode I use the most and it's great for everything but the fastest action, it's still more than sufficient for some action, just not ultra fast action, which the EFCS does well. To be honest rolling shutter VERY rarely creeps up on you out of nowhere, because if you're gonna get a picture where it might be an issue, it's probably a difficult enough shot that you will need to set yourself up for it. I can't imagine a scenario where a rare elusive bird just jumps in front of me and starts dancing and flapping, and I end up with rolling shutter because I was in 30fps electronic. In the field what happens is if I see a bird where an action shot could be possible, I'll then position myself, switch to my EFCS custom dial in a fraction of a second and get a few tries at the shot. You need blazing fast subject/wings/panning for it to be even noticeable, and even in those cases at 30fps a lot of shots in your burst won't have any noticeable rolling shutter. Coming back to shutter shock, it's pretty much a non issue for me then as I always go for electronic 30fps at shutter speeds where I could have shutter shock anyway. Even if the R7 had zero shutter shock it would not really change anything to how I shoot with the R7. It's just something to be aware of as if I land myself using already suboptimal settings there is the added possibility of shutter shock. I use two custom mode dials for each shutter so switching them takes a fraction of a second anyway. Perhaps you're confused because the xH2S is 40fps itself (can't remember)? The R6ii will have 40 as well. It's in the ball park tier of ludicrous fps for sure, 30fps took some time to adapt to but I'm really enjoying it and like I said, no real buffer issues on my part. I don't feel crippled and overall the sensor readout speed is a bigger nit pick for me (still a small nit pick overall though to be fair). I'm open to reading your own experiences with cRAW or articles that go against my claims if you have any though, happy to be proven wrong here? How is it "not as good" in your opinion? So far I'm kinda digging EF lenses to bridge the gap until 3rd parties come to RF, which will happen at one point down the line. Found an EF-S 17-55 2.8 for around 220 pounds, hard to beat at that price! Also got my hands on a couple of cheap gems like the RF100-400 and the sigma 18-35 F1.8, and the trusty good old revamped RF nifty fifty. Despite their minor quirks some EF alternatives are definitely amazing value (dare I say unmatched even? At bargain basement deal prices on the used market) for a more semi-serious hobbyist like me. I will eventually phase some EF lenses out down the line once third parties come, but even looking at current Sony prices it's still gonna be an over 2x price hike for many of them. Of course they're justified though, and I'll enjoy those smaller updated lenses once I do change em'. I mostly shoot wildlife, for which the cheap sigma 150-600C performs admirably, as shown by Duade himself in his vids. I even recently got myself a very nice copy of the EF 500 f4L for 2400 pounds equivalent, a big investment but a pretty safe one as they hold their value pretty well. It's a superb lens and I couldn't have gotten a better price in other brands other than Nikon perhaps. Haven't moved up to the RF100-500, the sigma performs too admirably for now and I figure I'll just upgrade to the sigma RF version (which will probably be similar to the current emount version) whenever it comes. Maybe in many years I'll be able to strike a deal on a used 100-500 but not feeling like I'm missing out on much having tried it for a bit. I should add that I'm young, in good shape, full of energy and don't mind hauling heavier lenses around at all 🙂 for many people even at MSRP the RF100-500 is the better choice for that weight alone I'm sure. Overall I couldn't be much more satisfied with my choice. Like mentioned in my original comment I don't have too many complains on the R7, only nits and picks really. For the price I think they knocked it out of the park and I can stand by that, as much as you can (justifiably!) criticize Canon for some of their practices. They got me good and stuck with them with the amazing R7 but I'm glad I'm sticking with them so far, I was already on EF prior which made the choice easier ofc. If we look back at the total budget for wildlife, the R7+kit lens+sigma 150-600C 6.3 +500 f4L landed me in the 4.2k pound ball park (similar to your Fuji kit), the 500 F4 being somewhat of a safer long term purchase in terms of resale value. That's the only reason I could justify that purchase, and why I cannot justify a new 100-500 for myself. In terms of my style of shooting and preferences I'd take those two lenses anyday over the 100-500, not everyone might be the same as me but personally I love what I went for and the results I get with them. What 200-600 lens are you talking about? I know Fuji has their recent 150-600 f8 which looks good and somewhat reasonably priced. It's still a bit steep for me but it's cheaper than the 100-500, there's that! Are you somehow adapting the Sony one? Yeah, we know the R7 isn't the true 7diii! Doesn't mean it's not the right camera for me and my needs, at least from my personal opinion and experience! It's just a great gem of a camera that isn't a 7d iii, that's the jist of it imo. Maybe one day Canon will make a true "7diii", maybe then I'll get it or maybe I'll stay in the R7 price bracket which is a fantastic value. I think I made my point that 30fps is definitely great on the R7, not a gimmick and worthy of the mirrorless upgrade (after eye detect ofc). At the end the of the day the results it produces speak for themselves, I can go on and on but you just need to see the pics it gets at its price point really! Oh and it does have focus bracketing too (been fun to play with it), and as much as pre-capture is indeed a tiny bit gimmicky at times, I have more recently gotten some nice shots after coming back to it so I can't say anymore that it's unusable after getting some of my best Blue Jays in flight shots because of it. Pre-capture will definitely be more useful in future iterations though, which I'm looking forward to. Also, how are you finding the animal eye AF on the xH2S so far? Reviews were sparse back when I pre-ordered the R7 and I've read pretty mixed reviews on it since then, but some claim it's very good. How's your experience with it so far? Cheers mate and thanks for the discussion 🙂
@@doghouseriley4732 Seems all discussions around Fuji boils down to this : "yeah the specs and tech is amazing, does it focus though?" 😅 Just poking fun here lol, I'm genuinely curious what your experience has been because I definitely am excited for the xH2S and Fuji getting it together in the AF department. Like I said I seriously considered it as well. Always happy to see competition in the market. Great time to be a wildlife shooter right now. Cheers mate!
I am thinking of going Canon mirrorless and this is the first video I have found which clearly explains the different shutter modes, the differences between them and the advantages and disadvantages of each. Thank you very much.
I only have one word for this video... "FANTASTIC!!!!" Very nicely done and extremely informative. I take a lot of photos of race cars (while racing) and propeller planes (in flight)... So glad I watched this video before making a final decision on my next body acquisition... Thank you!
Great Job Duade. Your videos have so much educational value. Topics are well explained, wonderfully illustrated. Always a joy to look at, each time I learn something. Thank you 😀
Awesome presentation Duade. You have obviously put a great deal of work into this. Your research and presentation are very impressive. I actually understood what you were talking about and for an old dinosaur (me) I learnt a lot. Thank you.
This was really helpful, I knew not to use my electronic shutter on my R10, but I didn’t know why. This explains it really well and I fully understand it now
I really enjoyed this video. The breakdown between explanation, examples and comparisons between multiple cameras and their samples really helped explain this complicated issue.
Fantastic video Duade, it answered a few nagging questions I had and provided me with a lot of helpful information. I have an R5 with RF lens, and I shoot mainly birds. I stopped using electronic shutter, and only shoot mechanical now, as I took one shot of an Osprey that had a teensy bit of rolling shutter on its wing tips, and I was worried if I get an absolute cracking shot that it may be ruined by the rolling effect. One thing I wanted to mention is; for me, the noise of the mechanical shutter is a bonus. I find the birds I shoot seem curious about the noise and they give me some unusual poses as they turn their heads on their side, almost as of they are saying "whats that noise?". I couldn't say the noise of the shutter has ever scared birds I am photographing, the noise from the photographer is another thing entirely. 😁 I appreciate your work doing these videos and helping us all out.
Thanks Craig and great point re the eye contact and pose from the noise. I have the same experience, only a few get scared by the shutter. Cheers, Duade 👍
Excellent, excellent, excellent! This was your most substantive technology review yet that I have seen and answered many questions for me that I have had for a long time. Thanks for your time and effort!
Wonderfully well presented Duade! In an earlier lifetime I was a trainer and I'm jealous that you turned a potentially dull and complex subject into one that I was happy to spend time on. Not only that, but I came away with comprehensive and usable knowledge. Great examples and well researched! It's obvious from the comments that you've helped lots of photographers with a topic that was needing just this sort of explanation! Thank you!
I am so happy that I have held off from investing in the latest offerings from Canon. What I have done for the past 1 1/2 years, is scoop up some great DSLR gear in mint condition for a quarter of its original price.
You did a great job, thank you very much. I use a z9 so always in electronic, and for what I photo (wildlife) I have not noticed any rolling shutter - but I have not tried to photo things like a plane or drone blade in motion. I think for anyone having any of the newer models from any of the manufactures there has never been a better time to be someone who enjoys wildlife photography.
Great video..... Extremely well-explained. The more I watch you (and others) talking about "issues to be aware of" when using mirrorless cameras, the more I am convinced that sticking to my "old" Nikon D500 with the Nikkor 200-500 for my wildlife photography is not a bad idea (at least for the moment being).
You have expressed the opinion that 30-40 frames per second are great features but at the current state of readout, my answer is to slow down electronic to15 fps which makes the main benefit of electronic shutter being the silence. Remembering film that came in 36 exposure rolls and over a second a shot if you had a quick thumb, I can deal it the 15 or 5.
Great video Duade, thank you 👍🏻 like you, I almost exclusively use electronic shutter with my R5 and RF1-5. The only issue I have really noticed is the occasional first frame in a sequence being slightly warped which you have explained perfectly. Appreciate you doing all the research for everyone 🙏 all the best Doug
Hi Duade thanks as always for your very informative videos, I have been a canon shooter since the first film EOS 5 with AF & eye control. Prior to that I had a number of Pentax manual focus camers the first was a SP1000 and the last was Super A with program mode. The point is to indicate that the Pentax were all manual focus film, no auta advance, no ibis, no electronic shutter, no high speed burst, no video, so all photos were taken in single shot this meant that after a lot of practice we had about a 15% OK hit rate for fast moving animals/birds/sport etc. The eos 5 film camera changed some of that, we now had auto focus and continuous burst capability (1 roll of film finished in 2 secs). I didnt move to digital till the Eos 60d (film had better resolution till that time) I had a dark room so developed and printed my own, this of course kept the price down to a minimum (professional imaging was extremely expensive) I now have a Eos R and continue with my EF lens collection. The type of photography technique that I have grown with is still the way that I shoot today, but your videos have encouraged me to try more adventuresome aspects including high speed bursts I now use a digital darkroom, Topaz etc and I can shoot all day with virtually no cost involved. I will soon add a R7 or R10 to my collection for use with my 100-400 & Tamron G2 150-600. I am a pensioner and have limited funds available for my photographic pursuits though I will upgrade my Eos R to at least an R6..Since retirement I have done mostly bird photography with Panasonic G9 & 100-400 (FF equiv 200-800) image quality is good enough but down on the Eos R though is much lighter and easier to carry. Thanks again for your videos I have used a lot of your suggestions and been happy with the results and as you have mentioned, never too old to learn more tricks
Thanks Daniela, I think they have the best system of all, that it starts in EFCS and switches to mechanical at high SS. They should all have that option. Cheers, Duade
Thanks for this video which turned out to be a lot more interesting and informative than I'd anticipated. To answer your question: On my 90D (DSLR) all three shutter modes are possible. The electronic (silent) mode I use mostly for candid portraits. Of course only Live View works in that mode, but that's fine: People are less suspicious that they're being photographed when you don't hold the viewfinder up to your eye. And I do get feedback: A briefly flashing white frame around the edge of the screen tells me that I took a picture. Otherwise I mostly use the mechanical shutter. The shutter noise is very moderate and much less disturbing on the 90D than on any of my older cameras. Especially the high frequency noise is well dampened. Importantly it doesn't sound anything like a gun. The first curtain thing I've actually never tried.
Thanks Lau, great to hear you are enjoying your 90D. The R7 would still be an upgrade but if you don't need the 15fps and the eye tracking AF they are very similar. Cheers, Duade
Really good video Duade. Thanks for doing the research and giving such good examples. I shoot with a Z9 and a Z6. The difference is more noticeable during whip panning. I can confirm that the Z9 has no perceptible rolling shutter in every situation I have shot. Keep up the great work. 👍🏻
@@Duade cheers. I hope the R1 is a great camera too. In the past Canon have been great innovators. It would be good to see them at the very pointy end again. All the best.
Thank excelent video. One detail, R10 electronic shutter do not allow flash..... on hummingbid photograpy the flash on the feathers create a very interesting effects, also on macrophotograpy the flash is essential
Very good video Duade! One thing to keep in mind about the 14bits advantage of MS, is that this benefit only applies to picture taken under ISO800, because 14bits DR is only achievable at base ISO. By the time you cross ISO800 you will get about 12bits of DR, at ISO3200 around 10bits and at 6400 around 9bits.. Important point since most wildlife pictures are usually shot at over ISO800. (Look the dynamic range chart of the R5 for example)
Thanks for this excellent discussion of the shutter modes. I wish I knew these differences and their effects much sooner, it explains many of the issues I’ve experienced with my R5. The chart you made is most helpful in understanding the differences in the various camera models and their sensor technology. I wish this was more readily available. Great job Duade!
Very informative video. Thanks for doing it. I've seen very few issues with rolling shutter on my Olympus EM-1 Mark III. With a very few exceptions, including my photo that you used in the video, the rolling shutter issues haven't caused any really strange abstracts. From what I understand, the new OM1 with its stacked sensor is even better. I'd guess within a few years rolling shutter will be a thing of the past in new mirrorless cameras. I love the ability to shoot silently.
Hi Allen, if you google measure sensor readout speed you will see lots of examples, mine is far from scientific but I measured the flickering lights which is a good guide. Cheers, Duade
I wanted to add another reason for using EFCS or MS: increased dynamic range. Most sensors lose one or even two stops of dynamic range in ES. So if you’ve got crazy backlight or very poorly lit conditions, use the EFCS or MS.
Yeah, but for stills using slower SS and 30fps for a lucky shot generally will give you the best results in low light, not to mention the shutter shock issue at low SS which you'd use for low light. Obviously this doesn't apply to faster shutter speeds, but it comes back again to EFCS for faster action, ES for stills. Nothing changes much. Generally speaking 12 bit (which is ES 30fps vs 14 bit in mechanical) is truly sufficient I find for flexibility of editing and IQ and don't notice much difference with 14 bit. But 10 bit (which I believe is what pre-capture mode goes down to), that I can definitely notice a decrease in IQ when editing.
Yes I agree, the hit to image quality in 12 bit for me a no go. Particularly for birds in flight, with the tricky exposure I want maximum dynamic range. Canon sensors now have good dynamic range, but using their cameras in 12 bit mode reduces the dynamic range back to how their old sensors used to work ! One step forward.........
@@simonthibodeau7082 Salut Simon...i have some difficulty to understand technical things when it is in English..Duade make a vidéo about the settings to put with our Sigma 150=600mm C but i miss something because image of the sigma usb dock were too fast...Do you have those instructions in FRENCH ? I have to decide if i keep my new R7 and when i read all of the defaults from Duade, it seem that this is not a good device and I'm probably better to stay with my 90D...Am i wrong ?
Geez..Thanks so much Duade.. You made a great argument for sticking with my DSLR for birds and action! Thanks for the incredible work and detail you put into these videos!
Duade , thank you for an anology on shutters, i am now educated on their differences. I shall wait and see what advances the big brands bring out. Maybe the Nikon R6iii addresses theses shortfalls.
First time I've watched one of your videos. You're a fine presenter, both in manner and content, and a pleasure to listen too. Even though I'm squarely in the Nikon camp, I found it informative. The Nikon Z6II, Z9 (and likely others) have two stabilization modes: NORMAL and SPORT, the latter designed for quick or erratic objects. SPORT, at least, disables during panning and is also recommended for use on a tripod. I've never noticed any rolling shutter in either body, but it might be there. On the Z6II, I prefer the mechanical shutter as it is less prone to banding under mixed household LED lights, although banding isn't otherwise a problem. In lieu of a mechanical shutter in the Z9, I usually use a very faint artificial shutter noise. The Z9 has an actual silent mode which quells lens sounds and the sounds of stabilization engaging, etc, and it's too quiet. With all the geewhizzery in new cameras, I'm still just as amazed at how fast, accurate and reliable electromechanical D/SLR Mirror/Shutter/AF/Aperture systems have historically been.
ahhh you learned alot as you say... well you also thaught a lot... so that made me learn a lot... more detailed than I knew... well than I thought I knew! Thank you for this great work from the Netherlands! Cheerio!
Thanks for all the great videos. New to shooting and recently got an R7. You're videos have taught me a lot, from gear and software reviews to the technical and mechanical side of photography. Thanks 👍
Thanks for your great video. You have always something useful info. I am an owner of R6. I can see many times rolling shutter issues with moving subjects. Thanks again for your helpful content.🙏
This was a VERY good and informative video, Duade! I didn't answer the poll myself, since it didn't seem active. I pressed the first curtain one, but nothing happened. Also: couldn't answer the "Why" question without sheepishly admit I didn't know! I used Jan's video when doing my settings on my R6 when I bought it, and at least then he said something to make me choose that one. Not changed it since then, bcs that's me: not really *that* knowledgeable about some finer technichal points! The R6 in that mode is way more quiet than the 7D II, so I've been very happy with the more discreet presence while photographing. Haven't been in any situations with shy animals as of yet, but will change to full electronic mode when that happens. So, I'm extremely pleased you explained what that dratted electronic first curtain really is! Also, about your previous lovely video: I did a long and happy comment that you never responded to. Since that's *very* unlike you, I at last went back to that video to check for my comment and see if you've answered and I just hadn't been noticed. To my enormous surprise/chagrin the comment was gone! And I just couldn't bring myself to repeat it, so long after the fact. So, if you wondered why I didn't make happy squeals about my Swordbill being shown (and the Rock Sandpiper), know that I did! It just somehow disappeared. (Believe me: I scrolled through ALL those comments twice, to be sure I hadn't missed it...)
Thanks for your comment and glad it was helpful, I think EFCS is the way to go if you don't mind the noise. The R6 electronic shutter is very good though and should not have too much rolling shutter should you encounter flighty subjects. Oh so sorry about the comment, I will check my end but I answer my members as a priority. Oddly I randomly get comments pop up from months ago so perhaps one day it will appear. I loved your images and I am happy that you enjoyed seeing them. Cheers, Duade
Really great video! I have both the R5 and recently the R7 so very relevant to me. I've never tried electronic first curtain and didn't understand what it was, so this is very helpful. it's still a confusing subject though, especially as subjects can suddenly change from perched to flight very quickly, so no time to change shutter mode. I've also noticed the warping and wobbling on the R7 but as you say most individual frames are useable. Rather rules out focus stacking though. Even with the R5 the wobbling and warping can be real pain for focus stacking. But no option to use mechanical shutter for that!
Thanks Stephen, I suspect EFCS should be fine in most circumstances. Best bet is to try the different modes yourself and see which one works best. Cheers, Duade
@@Duade Hi Duade, thanks for taking the time to reply. But I think the focus bracketing option,which needs to be used to collect the images for focus stacking on both the R5 and R7, automatically engages the electronic shutter - like the pre-capture mode on the R7.
That was very informative and I’m going to have to watch again because there’s so much information to take in. It goes along way to explain why only yesterday I was photographing Grebes and the blue square was on the eye but the image was slightly soft due to pointing down to a dark water and the shutter speed crashed. Mick .G uk.
Excellent presentation. With my R5 I tend to default to EFS since I have had problems with rolling shutter with small birds in flight and ES. However, I will move to ES often with larger, somewhat slower moving birds where rolling shutter is not noticeable. It is ironic that the primary situation where I need the high FPS available with ES, small, quick birds in flight, is also the most susceptible to rolling shutter, which is a bit irritating. For me, EFS offers the best compromise, though I go back and forth a lot. But then I see C shaped wing. Ha!
I tend to think of ES as something to be reserved for very skittish birds and animals, where silence is the most important thing. Though more is always better, of course, 15 fps is still blazing fast for the vast majority of action. Of course I can remember when we thought a "power winder" cranking out 5 fps was lightning quick!
Hi Duade, I love the work that you are doing. There was an incident in San Francisco, where a photographer while working on a wedding was beaten by two-armed gunmen and pistol-whipped. This photographer never let go of his camera gear and unfortunately, he took a beating. Two photography channels offered up a challenge for the Community with Channels to speak up on the safety and awareness of photographers and videographers alike. You are such a Photographer. The two channels that are talking about this and offering this challenge are Vahagraphy and 247 Media Group. If you get time out of your busy schedule, check this out starting with Vahagraphy, who brought this out to the community on his channel and please make some noise about this on your channel as well as it threatens our art and it is often forgotten!!!
Another fine upload, thanks Duade! Excellent breakdown of the different shutter types & their pros & cons. I thought it was very helpful & imformative. I've been using mostly electronic on the R7 & have had very few real problems. It definitely alters some images when compared to those images taken just before or after, but I have rarely found it ruining many images for me. That being said, I have taken very few BIF, but plan to shoot mechanical for those anyway to eliminate the potential. I have shot some with the EFC mode & the few times I tried it, it seemed that I got noticeably fewer sharp shots than electronic - even at 1/250 or 1/320. Definitely need to shoot more shots in that hybrid mode to make full determination. It was great to hear what your experiences have been & appreciate you sharing the information. Thanks again for the effort & may your spring sessions there be rewarding. Best regards ~ Chris
Congrats on 50k subs, Duade! Good for you, mate. The notice & appreciation are well deserved. Seems like it wasn't that long ago you mentioned 1k subs in a video :)
And there is Fujifilm with his mix of best of all in one settings. I have that in X-H2. Up to 1/2000s we using EFC, above 1/2000 up to 1/8000 is MS and above 1/8000 it use EL. No changes needed. We are chosing one "shutter" setting and we have best off all.
Thanks Lukasz, a great setting for sure, wish we had that option on Canon. With wildlife and slower lenses f4+ we don't see the EFCS issues portrait shooters do but having the option would be excellent. Cheers, Duade
Good info. I can think of a bunch of things to do with the extra money but I wish the R7 was in the $2000 to $2200 range, with the higher cost being for a better sensor and better processor. I think the irony of rolling shutter distortion is that a major reason to use the electronic shutter is for the higher frame rate when shooting a scene that's changing very rapidly, but those rapid changes are what causes the distortions.
I fist met you on your video about you and are similar to you in that in 2001 I too ended up with a pacemaker and thought my life is over but when seeing your storie you are so inspiring and I'm ready too take on this birding thing
this is a very good video, explaining rolling shutter and the effects of slow readout electronic shutters. Here is some more information on Stacked Sensors. In a regular sensor the image is recorded and then transferred off the sensor to the co-processor. In a stacked sensor starting in 2017 with the A9, there are three layers to the sensor. The top layer works just like the regular sensor, the second layer is just a layer of ram, it just temporarily holds the image, the third layer is where image manipulation begins (This is important because the main sensor is by far the fastest chip on the camera). The design of the stacked sensor is 10-20 times the speed of a traditional sensor. The fantastic speed also allows for several other advantages. 1. the incredible speed allows cameras with Stacked sensors to have much faster shutter speeds most have 1/32,000 which is 4x a regular top speed of 1/8000. 2. the much faster readout allow your AF system to function much faster than the 10-20 times a second that most cameras calculate AF, the Sony A9, Sony A9II and Canon R3 all have the ability to adjust AF and AE at 60 times a second. The Sony A1 doubles that to an amazing 120 times a second. 3. the Stacked sensor cameras have a true blackout free view in the viewfinder. 4. Most stacked sensor camera have a higher frame rate available for the electronic viewfinder which also leads to better and sharper images in the viewfinder. I have had a stacked sensor camera since 2017 and even though I currently own three full frame cameras with traditional BSI sensors, if I want to shoot anything moving fast I take my A1, it is just so far above all the regular sensor cameras (and even far above the other Stacked sensor cameras available today). Here is a video from Sony that shows how it works. This the original A9 from the fall of 2017. ua-cam.com/video/6Q-nzcf8Pkw/v-deo.html
Thanks for the explanation Roger, very helpful, this helps to explain why the AF on the R7 feels so different to the R5/R3, the sensor is just a little slow to handle all the AF data. I do look forward to getting a stacked sensor one day. Thanks again, Cheers, Duade
Duade, excellent video! I only used the R7 with electronic shutter once to get birds in flight. The buildings in the background were completely tilted to the left as I panned in that direction. Never again! I use electronic shutter for perched birds at 1/500 second, and still get occasional distortion. Could be due to the IBIS as I am using the 100-500 lens.
Duane, thank you thank you thank you for this explanation of rolling shutter. As others have said yours is among the best explanations! I shoot Sony cameras, and my first experience with rolling shutter was an s-shaped hummingbird wing, then the leaning vertical trees and fences. Most of my mirrorless experience is with the sony a7r and a7 series, also the crop sensor cameras - all of which have pretty bad rolling shutter. I shoot electronic shutter most of the time because it is quiet and there is obviously no wear and tear on the shutter. I spend a lot of time shooting large soaring or “slow wing speed” birds, herons, cranes and raptors, also perched birds, so it’s not always an issue. I have a newer A7riv, which has terrible rolling shutter, about as bad as a cropped sensor camera I used to own, the a6500. I also have an A9 and pick that up almost exclusively when shooting BIF. I’m using the mechanical shutter more with the a7riv. I still have my old a7riii as a backup - I’ll have to compare the two a7r cameras. I suspect the riv is worse - but not sure now. I have a question for you: I really like that thin cover on your lens - what is it? Do you have an affiliate link to it? Thank you again, keep up the great work!
Thanks for the input Karn, always good to hear from Sony users, yes I have heard those cameras have slow read out also. If you google 3M Lens Cover and your lens you should get a few options. Just be aware it is a jigsaw to apply and took me close to 3 hours to apply. Cheers, Duade
That's possibly the best breakdown of the advantages and disadvantages of shutter modes I've seen. As always provided by you a great video - many thanks matey
Thanks Kevin, Cheers, Duade
Absolutely brilliant I have to say
wow! First time I really understood shutters
Can’t agree more 😊
Agreed. Great video
To me you're the definition of the word "Teacher". Whenever I need to refresh my memory or learn new things, your channel is the first place to visit.
Thank you for doing these videos.
Wow, thank you!
You are without any doubt, the nicest birdwatcher I have seen. Almost every other birdwatcher I see doesn’t seem to reveal they make mistakes too and have lots of bad shots. You make us seem like any camera is welcome in terms of taking good bird photos. Hats off to you!
Thanks, you are too kind, we are all human and make mistakes all the time. It is trying to enjoy the process and accept the mistakes as part of the journey. Have fun, Cheers, Duade 👍
That shot above the little puddle with the different wing positions is so incredibly cool.
Thanks , yes it is very unusual. Cheers, Duade 👍
When I saw the title, I thought the video might just be a rant (which would be out of character). Instead, that was a balanced and really informative discussion of the shutter modes. Thanks and well done.
Thanks Andy, I must admit thumbnails and titles are the hardest part of UA-cam, it really is an artform to itself on what people click on and what they don't. Cheers, Duade
I bought the R7 + RF 100-500 six months ago as my first serious wildlife photography camera. As a beginner, it has been an amazing combo. However, as I have learned more and improved my skills, I have become frustrated with the low-light performance, shutter shock, and rolling shutter.
I've decided to buy a R5, but wanted to go back and look at R7 reviews as well to confirm that I was making the right choice. This video definitely helped me confirm my decision, yet I cannot stress enough that the R7 is amazing for the price.
Fun Fact: I just noticed that I'm using the same lens skin on the 100-500! 😆
Thanks for the feedback and great to hear you are enjoying the videos. The R5 is a wonderful camera and a nice upgrade from the R7. Have fun with it, yes the camo is great. Cheers, Duade
My word, you've nailed it in this video. A briefing sections for someone who don't understand the concept yet, to the full explanation in one single video.
Well done 👏👏👏
Edit: 7:29 is so bizarre yet a perfect example for rolling shutter in a still shoot.
and out of focus as well!
"I'm not an expert"...after he documents and analyzes every combination and known issues with EVERYTHING. Ya, new sub here, and maybe a member soon. Thank you Duade.
Much appreciated!
Hi Duade! You have an excellent channel and did a great overview of the R7 rolling shutter issue. I have an R7 and use the100-500RF. However I don't find the rolling shutter as much of a problem and even prefer to shoot on ES with slower flying birds like ducks, herons, cormorants, pelicans, gulls, skimmers, even some shorebirds, turn off the IS on the lens (is not needed at shutter speeds of 3200 or more anyway, IBIS distortion gone) and shoot in H+ mode for 30fps just shoot until the buffer is full. More photos = more keepers. I use a fast kensington SDXC UHS-II card so the buffer is cleared fast. With hummingbirds that's another story, horrible rolling shutter with the r7, EFCS there is needed absolutely, in that mode H+ gets 15fps and that is fast too anyway. So I have Custom mode 1 with ES for slow birds and Custom mode 2 with EFCS for hummingbirds. My two cents!! Keep the good work!!! - Greetings from Panama!!!
Thanks for the feedback Osvaldo, that is good to know it is working well for you, having the custom functions is a good idea. Cheers, Duade
The R7 in Electronic makes for some hilarious hummingbird photos.
This video is, without a doubt, the most comprehensive and enjoyable tutorial on the subject I've seen to date. And actually, I don't believe there is anyone out there who will challenge making a better one. Yours is one of my favorite channels. Anyhow, as a sport photographer, I still find it gratifying to aim that long lens at an athlete, press the shutter release, and hear that loud machine gun sound. The Nikon camera I use makes no sound except for synthesized sound, if the user chooses. With that turned off, one would have no audible feedback so the company has implemented a thin red line on the boarder of the EVF to indicate you are shooting. Thanks again Duade , Ted in Sebastian, Fl.
I was going to upgrade from my 7d mk2 for a R7 but I think I will wait until these mirror less cameras come up to speed and sort out these issues, there a bit like electric cars they are new kids on the block and need time to sort out . Very good video well explained.
Exactly my thoughts 😊
I was also about to upgrade to the R7 but think I will upgrade to the Canon 90D first. I already have the 70D.
@@lynetterudmanthe 90d sucks compared to the r7. Owned both.
@@lynetterudman90d is a great camera
Danke!
Thank you so much for the support, Cheers, Duade
You can have audible feedback for electronic shooting on the R7! I really did not like the complete silence when shooting but I came across another UA-camr (Wild Alaska) who mentioned that changing the "silent shooting off" and changing the volume of the sound does apply to electronic. I set the volume to 1 so it was still low enough to hopefully not disturb wildlife yet I could hear it when the camera was at my face. I was so much more comfortable with electronic after that!
Fantastically well researched and presented video Duade, I can absolutely see it becoming a resource for the wildlife photographer community long into the future whenever someone has questions about this topic. Cheers!
Thanks Will, glad to hear it is helpful, Cheers, Duade
@Photogopinion Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated, Cheers, Duade
Thanks Duade, another excellent video
Thanks Lozzza, I appreciate the support, Cheers, Duade
Extremely well explained and thoughtfully laid out for R7 noobs like myself. Thank you.
Great explanation. I had all the problems you described and decided on electronic first curtain without knowing why. Now I have a reason. I got drastic and interesting rolling shutter photographing a hummingbird with full electronic and this caused me to see if I could capture the action with less problem. With a cooperative hummingbird I was able to experiment and found the same results you described. Now I know what to do, when, and why and use the rolling shutter for its artistic effects when I want to.
Thanks again😊
Thanks for the feedback Rick, good to know, Cheers, Duade
Wow! You put a LOT into this presentation!! Thanks for everything you do for the benefit of others!!! The chart was most informative across the board for everyone watching and your condensed yet thorough explanation of the different aspects related to shutter operations is a must see for every photographer!! (I know...the exclamation marks are getting redundant, but you really knocked this one out-of-the-park!) Thanks, Duade!!!
Thanks Chris, you are too kind, I am happy to hear it was helpful and will be to others going forward, I learnt a lot too which is great. Cheers, Duade
I loved seeing a 40D.
That's still my daily driver.
Currently torn between upgrading to a 90D or an R7. Your videos have been very helpful and informative
R7
R7. Are you kidding me? Once you test drive all the features of mirrorless you will never go back.
Thanks!
Thanks Sheila, I appreciate the support, Cheers, Duade
R7 here from Austria. The shutter broke after 1 Month of mechanical usage, was repaired on warranty. So now I'm shooting electronically :-) . Works great for me. Great video Duade!
Thanks for sharing, sorry to hear about the shutter, Cheers, Duade
Thank you Duade!
This is by far the best breakdown video of various shutter modes. And also love the way you include us subscribers as well.
Looking forward to more videos!
Thanks Aadithyan, it is my pleasure, Cheers, Duade
Extremely useful video for all mirrorless users. No words to thank you.
Dziękujemy.
Dziękuję za wsparcie, pozdrawiam, Duade
Thanks
Thanks Peter, I really appreciate the support, Cheers, Duade
I just wanted to echo others in saying thanks for efforts and time you go to to illustrate the many variables associated with wildlife photography. You are out there on your own with the quality and depth you present to help us with out techniques and decision making. Thank you.
Thanks for the feedback Craig, I appreciate it, I just enjoy sharing and helping others as we all have something to learn, including me. Cheers, Duade
@@Duade well deserved feedback Duade. My concerns about the r7 at release made me jump to the xh2s and adapted sigma 150-600mm. I havnt seen any noticeable warping yet thanks to the stacked sensor. V sharp too as no AA filter unlike the R7. Thanks again for your help in deciding.
Yes even the scanner footage was shot and not sourced from stock I guess. Which is insane really :D coherent to the last detail
Always interested in your comments about the R7 as I have one, and reassured by your balanced presentation on other camera performance. I realized the specs on the R7 would be less than the significantly more expensive R5 or R3, so accept that the performance would be lower in comparison. But also feel better knowing that all mirrorless cameras currently suffer some issues. Looking forward to your thoughts about optimizing the R7 within its limitations. Your videos are really helpful.
Thanks Ted, for its price it offers excellent value. I'm working on the review now. Cheers, Duade 👍
Nice video. I had discussed this subject I a few videos about how the sensor readout speed on many cameras is the root of the rolling shutter issue. And you drove that point home in a video of its own. Glad you made this video.
Personal shake and the IBIS are very important to remember as you stated. My non RS keeper is closer to 70% vs your 40+% and you described that well by being shakier with the long lenses plus using the EF 500 for less IS wobble.
Thanks again for a detailed video.
My pleasure mate, yep, I suspect the slow readout impacts the AF of the R7 also. Yeah, I shake a lot which does impact shots, my keeper rate on the R5 is much higher which is interesting. Cheers, Duade
Excellent education on rolling shutter. I’m well aware of it but to have it explained so clearly really helps to understand how best to minimise it.
Thanks Phil, glad it was helpful, Cheers, Duade
Great video , I will be using my R7 in first curtain , I am going on a safary soon and I move from a 90d to the R7 ( 90d will be my back up) using a Tamron 100-400
Thanks a lot for all these informations. I just received my R7 and your video will help me a lot ! Thank you so much ! Take care.
Congrats on the R7 Joel, have fun ,Cheers, Duade
thanks Duade, i now know all about rolling shutter. what a mine of useful info, your videos are very watchable, i know all sorts of useful stuff, mainly from watching your channel, one of the best photo channels on the tube.. thanks again 😎
Thanks, you are too kind, Cheers, Duade
Excellent Duade! Lots of information and zero rambling, I'm amazed at the speed you could deliver all this stuff 👍👍
Thanks Federico, it was a lot and can be difficult to follow at times but I'm glad it was helpful. Cheers, Duade 👍
Thanks a lot for your thorough research and well produced video as always. I definitely learned a few things!
The key question really is what the specific SS does even EFCS produce some shutter shock (as honestly I never noticed any downsides to EFCS vs mechanical and probably never will, I never use mechanical). I've heard anywhere from 1/200 to 1/500 is the limit where it is still kind of noticeable. Or maybe it was 1/200 for EFCS and 1/500 for mechanical. Typically 1/640 is the threshold I set myself, but realistically if I'm using EFCS it's for action, so I almost exclusively shoot at way higher SS than that. This will obviously be different for every camera, my numbers are for the R7.
This video is very good at explaining the difference between BSI and stacked sensors which people often confuse. As we can see rolling shutter can still be pretty bad with a BSI sensor.
It'll be interesting to see where the R6ii lands. Canon says they've improved it so perhaps somewhere closer to the R5, which would be nice!
People were frustrated learning the R6ii didn't have a stacked sensor (false rumors are partly to blame here) and I've heard some people saying things along the lines of "I can't believe it doesn't have a stacked sensor in 2022 for 2500$. But when you look at what's actually out there, there are currently only 7 cameras ever produced that have a stacked sensor. Out of the 5 that are FF (all Nikon/Sony/Canon flagships plus the two a9s), all of them are at least double the price of the R6ii. People definitely set their expectations too high for that price range.
Really, stacked sensor is the true distinguishing feature of today's modern flagships. As much as I would want a stacked sensor in my next camera upgrade, it will probably take at least a full generation or two until that technology becomes more affordable. Some people have said that some new fancy feature will need to be brought to a new flagship generation and become the "next big thing" until we can see stacked sensors trickle down to lower tier cameras, which I kind of agree with. Otherwise why buy an R3, which a lot of pros are indeed buying right now.
Sensor readout speed also has a couple more advantages, the most notable being a faster AF response time. Even mechanical can't save you from that and it's no surprise that the R3 and A1's capabilities for ultra fast AF responsiveness are superior to pretty much any non stacked sensor camera. It's no surprise the R3 has the best AF of all the R cameras even though they all have the same DiGIC X processor.
While sensor size could be an explanation for the slightly inferior AF in the R7 compared to say the R5/6, sensor speed could be a reason as well. At this point personally I would gladly prefer a 24mp APSC with faster readout than the current 33mp, which some articles have said doesn't even scale that well in terms of true resolution (vague term but with some truth to it). It's pretty clear we don't truly get a full 30% increase in detail and cropping ability with those 30% extra pixels, there are great articles out there explaining why.
In any case it does seem unlikely to me that the R7ii will have a stacked sensor, unless there is quite a big jump in price. Sometime in the future we might see the first affordable stacked canon camera come to APSC first though. Who knows when that'll be. Fuji has already done it but they put major RnD in it and Canon might be more interested in FF for now (R5ii and R1 probably being next) just like Sony is atm. A slightly faster 24mp APSC would be nice, but they might not go that route as customers could be confused and see it as a downgrade.
Having useful 30fps for action would be super awesome, especially with pre capture mode. I've been pretty disappointed with the results overall of pre-capture mode so far, even when the usability quirks taken out of the equation. I believe it also reduces images to 10 bit which could be part of the reason as well. Rolling shutter is obviously the worst thing about it and it might even be worse in that mode, hard to tell.
Anyway, enough rambling, cheers Duade! 🙂
Thanks mate agree with everything you have said and yes the difference in AF performance must be correlated to the slow read out speed as the difference between the R7 and R5 is noticeable. I also get more keepers on the R5 than the R7 at slow shutter speeds which I can't really explain either.
They are saying the R62 is 40% faster which must mean it is around the 12.4ms 1/80 which would be very fast for FSI sensor. At worse it will be the same as the R5 but I believe it will be better. The pre burst feature is not very good in its current form, mainly that you have to wait for the buffer to clear before you can start shooting again which means it is useless for me as I feather the shutter. I am just starting on the R7 full review so feel free to send me your best shot with the camera and maybe your pros and cons to duade.paton@gmail.com, no pressure if you are unable. Cheers, Duade
@@doghouseriley4732 eh, it's about 55-60ish I believe with cRAW and feathering it it's completely fine. Idk if you've used the R7 but while a bigger buffer would be nice, 30fps is certainly useful enough for me to always use it when I'm on electronic at this point. I started at 15 fps like many being scared of the buffer, switched after some time to 30 and never switched back as the buffer didn't bother me much after all.
You learn to adapt to it. Really the biggest disadvantage of 30fps on the R7 isn't the buffer, it's having so many files to sort through 😅 double edged sword as with lenses with good ois you can go to super low SS and often land a sharp shot of a bird if you spray and pray. It's a lot of effort in post but it allows me to get pictures in low light that would be impossible otherwise.
And even in good light it's extremely useful if you're after "that pose" for a certain bird species. With birds that move a lot and have a certain feature you might want to show on their head, tail, back, etc., Having 30fps has been super useful for getting that one moment where it struck the perfect pose.
But coming back to your comment, I find 30fps electronic more than usable. Even if I had unlimited buffer I don't think I would take that many more pictures as I do fill up my dual 128gb fast enough as it is!
Perched birds often move around a lot and over time you learn to feather the shutter to only capture the moments where you have eye contact for example. And feathering + good V90 cards means in most situations I barely ever hit the buffer.
Don't get me wrong I would be glad to have CFE and bigger buffer, but the 30fps is far from a gimmick. If there's one thing I'd fix first, it's the somewhat slower readout speed. Like I said earlier I'd trade a few MPs for a faster readout speed personally. Not sure I'd pay the premium for the price of stacked sensors in their current state now. I'm just hoping someday the tech becomes more affordable.
For wildlife specifically, it's hard to argue against the fact that Canon pretty much knocked it out of the park with the R7 at its price point and state of the market in camera bodies. Despite its flaws it's still (probably) the best animal eye AF in any APSC ever, and is pretty much good enough or great in almost every category for a camera. The only way they could've made it better at that price point would've been a 24mp faster sensor I think, anything else I hear people complaining about would've meant a higher price.
(Well, I'd take dual CFE cards anyday which could've been possible too, but maybe that would've turned off broader audiences from buying it?).
@@Duade I'll try to do it this weekend! Cheers 🙂
@@doghouseriley4732 Glad you're happy with it! It looks like a very nice camera and it's a major leap forward for Fuji for sure, especially for wildlife. It's exciting to see what they bring to the market. That xtrans sensor is a fabulous piece of tech, I've read a few articles on all the RnD they put into it and it's impressive to say the least.
I had definitely looked at it when buying the R7 but landed myself at around 2k pounds equivalent for the R7+18-150 kit (which I really like!)+Sigma 150-600C (which I already owned). I decided I couldn't justify the 2x jump in price and switching brands. Reviews on the animal eye AF were mixed (and still are to my knowledge) so I didn't risk it as that was a total no compromise thing for me.
To this day I haven't found any proper side by side comparison of the two in animal eye AF, but if you have any please send them my way! Only read from a couple people that while a major leap forward (we all know Fuji's track record on AF), but some are still resorting to MF and peaking for critical shots which I personally never want to have to bother with in a million years.
I'm very happy with my combo. I'm completely spoiled by the animal eye AF and that feature alone totally justified locking myself to the closed RF system for now, though I am confident 3rd parties are going to come to RF somewhere down the line. It's frustrating for now for sure and I make sure to tell people to be cautious of getting into EOS R nowadays, for many non-wildlife shooters I think looking elsewhere is a better option for lens selection alone and other points you have mentioned.
Whenever I see other fellow wildlife shooters still using MF and/or the old AF system and their results/keeper rates, I'm always struck by how much I'm truly spoiled by good AF. My heart goes out to those shooters because I definitely don't have the skills to get some of the results I still see coming out of DSLRs and Panasonics on MF, but can't help but feel like I have it so much easier than them at getting it right in camera and not having to rely on Topaz for slight focus inaccuracies (which as we know still yields suboptimal results).
Looking back on my old pics as well, I had never realized how ever so slightly OOF eyes I was getting before and it's definitely set the bar higher for my own expectations in my photography. Game changing is the word when it comes to animal eye AF! I will never go back to anything else after having tried it that's for sure.
But for good animal eye AF on APSC the R7 and xH2S are pretty much the only two options on the market atm as far as I know (Sony doesn't have much atm and I'm out of the loop on Nikon), and like I said you can squeeze a very good R7 kit at half the price, that's not negligible!
I really like cRAW. From reviews of it confirmed with my own testing the only differences can be seen by some minor artifacts when adjusting the exposure to about 4-5 stops in post and more. Personally I've never had to go above 2-3 stops in post (shooting auto ISO, 3 is the most you can go with exposure comp anyway) and the differences are completely unnoticeable there. Like you said, I'm one of those that can pretty much state as fact that it's ''just as good" for sure, all the major Canon wildlife UA-camrs seem to have landed to that conclusion as well as independent reviewers. Oh and btw the R7 is 30fps max, I'm not dialing down anything. 30fps is by far the mode I use the most and it's great for everything but the fastest action, it's still more than sufficient for some action, just not ultra fast action, which the EFCS does well.
To be honest rolling shutter VERY rarely creeps up on you out of nowhere, because if you're gonna get a picture where it might be an issue, it's probably a difficult enough shot that you will need to set yourself up for it. I can't imagine a scenario where a rare elusive bird just jumps in front of me and starts dancing and flapping, and I end up with rolling shutter because I was in 30fps electronic. In the field what happens is if I see a bird where an action shot could be possible, I'll then position myself, switch to my EFCS custom dial in a fraction of a second and get a few tries at the shot. You need blazing fast subject/wings/panning for it to be even noticeable, and even in those cases at 30fps a lot of shots in your burst won't have any noticeable rolling shutter.
Coming back to shutter shock, it's pretty much a non issue for me then as I always go for electronic 30fps at shutter speeds where I could have shutter shock anyway. Even if the R7 had zero shutter shock it would not really change anything to how I shoot with the R7. It's just something to be aware of as if I land myself using already suboptimal settings there is the added possibility of shutter shock. I use two custom mode dials for each shutter so switching them takes a fraction of a second anyway.
Perhaps you're confused because the xH2S is 40fps itself (can't remember)? The R6ii will have 40 as well. It's in the ball park tier of ludicrous fps for sure, 30fps took some time to adapt to but I'm really enjoying it and like I said, no real buffer issues on my part. I don't feel crippled and overall the sensor readout speed is a bigger nit pick for me (still a small nit pick overall though to be fair).
I'm open to reading your own experiences with cRAW or articles that go against my claims if you have any though, happy to be proven wrong here? How is it "not as good" in your opinion?
So far I'm kinda digging EF lenses to bridge the gap until 3rd parties come to RF, which will happen at one point down the line. Found an EF-S 17-55 2.8 for around 220 pounds, hard to beat at that price! Also got my hands on a couple of cheap gems like the RF100-400 and the sigma 18-35 F1.8, and the trusty good old revamped RF nifty fifty. Despite their minor quirks some EF alternatives are definitely amazing value (dare I say unmatched even? At bargain basement deal prices on the used market) for a more semi-serious hobbyist like me.
I will eventually phase some EF lenses out down the line once third parties come, but even looking at current Sony prices it's still gonna be an over 2x price hike for many of them. Of course they're justified though, and I'll enjoy those smaller updated lenses once I do change em'.
I mostly shoot wildlife, for which the cheap sigma 150-600C performs admirably, as shown by Duade himself in his vids. I even recently got myself a very nice copy of the EF 500 f4L for 2400 pounds equivalent, a big investment but a pretty safe one as they hold their value pretty well. It's a superb lens and I couldn't have gotten a better price in other brands other than Nikon perhaps.
Haven't moved up to the RF100-500, the sigma performs too admirably for now and I figure I'll just upgrade to the sigma RF version (which will probably be similar to the current emount version) whenever it comes. Maybe in many years I'll be able to strike a deal on a used 100-500 but not feeling like I'm missing out on much having tried it for a bit.
I should add that I'm young, in good shape, full of energy and don't mind hauling heavier lenses around at all 🙂 for many people even at MSRP the RF100-500 is the better choice for that weight alone I'm sure.
Overall I couldn't be much more satisfied with my choice. Like mentioned in my original comment I don't have too many complains on the R7, only nits and picks really. For the price I think they knocked it out of the park and I can stand by that, as much as you can (justifiably!) criticize Canon for some of their practices. They got me good and stuck with them with the amazing R7 but I'm glad I'm sticking with them so far, I was already on EF prior which made the choice easier ofc.
If we look back at the total budget for wildlife, the R7+kit lens+sigma 150-600C 6.3 +500 f4L landed me in the 4.2k pound ball park (similar to your Fuji kit), the 500 F4 being somewhat of a safer long term purchase in terms of resale value. That's the only reason I could justify that purchase, and why I cannot justify a new 100-500 for myself.
In terms of my style of shooting and preferences I'd take those two lenses anyday over the 100-500, not everyone might be the same as me but personally I love what I went for and the results I get with them.
What 200-600 lens are you talking about? I know Fuji has their recent 150-600 f8 which looks good and somewhat reasonably priced. It's still a bit steep for me but it's cheaper than the 100-500, there's that! Are you somehow adapting the Sony one?
Yeah, we know the R7 isn't the true 7diii! Doesn't mean it's not the right camera for me and my needs, at least from my personal opinion and experience! It's just a great gem of a camera that isn't a 7d iii, that's the jist of it imo.
Maybe one day Canon will make a true "7diii", maybe then I'll get it or maybe I'll stay in the R7 price bracket which is a fantastic value.
I think I made my point that 30fps is definitely great on the R7, not a gimmick and worthy of the mirrorless upgrade (after eye detect ofc). At the end the of the day the results it produces speak for themselves, I can go on and on but you just need to see the pics it gets at its price point really! Oh and it does have focus bracketing too (been fun to play with it), and as much as pre-capture is indeed a tiny bit gimmicky at times, I have more recently gotten some nice shots after coming back to it so I can't say anymore that it's unusable after getting some of my best Blue Jays in flight shots because of it. Pre-capture will definitely be more useful in future iterations though, which I'm looking forward to.
Also, how are you finding the animal eye AF on the xH2S so far? Reviews were sparse back when I pre-ordered the R7 and I've read pretty mixed reviews on it since then, but some claim it's very good. How's your experience with it so far? Cheers mate and thanks for the discussion 🙂
@@doghouseriley4732 Seems all discussions around Fuji boils down to this : "yeah the specs and tech is amazing, does it focus though?" 😅
Just poking fun here lol, I'm genuinely curious what your experience has been because I definitely am excited for the xH2S and Fuji getting it together in the AF department. Like I said I seriously considered it as well. Always happy to see competition in the market. Great time to be a wildlife shooter right now. Cheers mate!
I am thinking of going Canon mirrorless and this is the first video I have found which clearly explains the different shutter modes, the differences between them and the advantages and disadvantages of each. Thank you very much.
Thanks tristanba, it is my pleasure ,Cheers, Duade
I only have one word for this video... "FANTASTIC!!!!" Very nicely done and extremely informative. I take a lot of photos of race cars (while racing) and propeller planes (in flight)... So glad I watched this video before making a final decision on my next body acquisition... Thank you!
it is my pleasure, Cheers, Duade
This is probably one of the best clips about photography gear and features I ever seen. Well done Duade!
Wow, thanks!
Wow Duade! Superb presentation! Perhaps the best one on the advantages and disadvantages of using different modes of shutter. ❤️👌👍👏👏👏
Good job! I've always used electronic first curtain. I don't know why, but I'm going to keep doing that mostly
maybe the best technical video ever!!!!
Thanks Scott, you are too kind, Cheers, Duade
Great Job Duade. Your videos have so much educational value. Topics are well explained, wonderfully illustrated. Always a joy to look at, each time I learn something. Thank you 😀
Thanks Jean-Michel, you are too kind, Cheers, Duade
Awesome presentation Duade. You have obviously put a great deal of work into this. Your research and presentation are very impressive. I actually understood what you were talking about and for an old dinosaur (me) I learnt a lot. Thank you.
Thanks for the feedback Zsolt, it was a fun video to do and I learnt plenty. Cheers, Duade
This was really helpful, I knew not to use my electronic shutter on my R10, but I didn’t know why. This explains it really well and I fully understand it now
Just found this video....a bit late. Thanks so much for these comparisons. Really helps me with some issues I'm having with the R7.
I really enjoyed this video. The breakdown between explanation, examples and comparisons between multiple cameras and their samples really helped explain this complicated issue.
Thanks Salman, great to hear it was helpful, Cheers, Duade
Fantastic video Duade, it answered a few nagging questions I had and provided me with a lot of helpful information. I have an R5 with RF lens, and I shoot mainly birds. I stopped using electronic shutter, and only shoot mechanical now, as I took one shot of an Osprey that had a teensy bit of rolling shutter on its wing tips, and I was worried if I get an absolute cracking shot that it may be ruined by the rolling effect. One thing I wanted to mention is; for me, the noise of the mechanical shutter is a bonus. I find the birds I shoot seem curious about the noise and they give me some unusual poses as they turn their heads on their side, almost as of they are saying "whats that noise?". I couldn't say the noise of the shutter has ever scared birds I am photographing, the noise from the photographer is another thing entirely. 😁 I appreciate your work doing these videos and helping us all out.
Thanks Craig and great point re the eye contact and pose from the noise. I have the same experience, only a few get scared by the shutter. Cheers, Duade 👍
Outstanding analysis, thank you for sharing Duade! I'm a Sony A9 owner so rolling shutter is only rarely an issue with the electronic shutter.
Hey Duade i love my R7 ,the focus on mine works great on my sigma 150 x 600 ..........
Great to hear skip, Cheers, Duade
Excellent, excellent, excellent! This was your most substantive technology review yet that I have seen and answered many questions for me that I have had for a long time. Thanks for your time and effort!
Thanks Brent, you are too kind, Cheers, Duade 👍
Wonderfully well presented Duade! In an earlier lifetime I was a trainer and I'm jealous that you turned a potentially dull and complex subject into one that I was happy to spend time on. Not only that, but I came away with comprehensive and usable knowledge. Great examples and well researched! It's obvious from the comments that you've helped lots of photographers with a topic that was needing just this sort of explanation! Thank you!
Thanks for the feedback Thomas, I currently work as a facilitator in my day job so it helps for sure. Glad you learnt a few things, Cheers, Duade 👍
I am so happy that I have held off from investing in the latest offerings from Canon. What I have done for the past 1 1/2 years, is scoop up some great DSLR gear in mint condition for a quarter of its original price.
Yes, there are many great DSLRs out there, I am sure mirrorless will continue to improve, Cheers, Duade
You did a great job, thank you very much. I use a z9 so always in electronic, and for what I photo (wildlife) I have not noticed any rolling shutter - but I have not tried to photo things like a plane or drone blade in motion. I think for anyone having any of the newer models from any of the manufactures there has never been a better time to be someone who enjoys wildlife photography.
Great video..... Extremely well-explained. The more I watch you (and others) talking about "issues to be aware of" when using mirrorless cameras, the more I am convinced that sticking to my "old" Nikon D500 with the Nikkor 200-500 for my wildlife photography is not a bad idea (at least for the moment being).
This covers a tricky subject in the best way I have seen. Nice one!
You have expressed the opinion that 30-40 frames per second are great features but at the current state of readout, my answer is to slow down electronic to15 fps which makes the main benefit of electronic shutter being the silence. Remembering film that came in 36 exposure rolls and over a second a shot if you had a quick thumb, I can deal it the 15 or 5.
Fascinating. Issues I wouldn’t normally be aware of if it wasn’t for your videos
Thanks Stephen, it is my pleasure, Cheers, Duade
Nice summary, thanks... I use EFSC on the R5
Thanks for sharing, it does work well, Cheers, Duade
This was an excellent overview on the shutter modes! Thanks for posting.
My pleasure Arvindh, Cheers, Duade 👍
Great video Duade, thank you 👍🏻 like you, I almost exclusively use electronic shutter with my R5 and RF1-5. The only issue I have really noticed is the occasional first frame in a sequence being slightly warped which you have explained perfectly. Appreciate you doing all the research for everyone 🙏 all the best Doug
Thanks Doug, it is my pleasure, Cheers, Duade 👍
Hi Duade thanks as always for your very informative videos, I have been a canon shooter since the first film EOS 5 with AF & eye control. Prior to that I had a number of Pentax manual focus camers the first was a SP1000 and the last was Super A with program mode. The point is to indicate that the Pentax were all manual focus film, no auta advance, no ibis, no electronic shutter, no high speed burst, no video, so all photos were taken in single shot this meant that after a lot of practice we had about a 15% OK hit rate for fast moving animals/birds/sport etc. The eos 5 film camera changed some of that, we now had auto focus and continuous burst capability (1 roll of film finished in 2 secs). I didnt move to digital till the Eos 60d (film had better resolution till that time) I had a dark room so developed and printed my own, this of course kept the price down to a minimum (professional imaging was extremely expensive) I now have a Eos R and continue with my EF lens collection. The type of photography technique that I have grown with is still the way that I shoot today, but your videos have encouraged me to try more adventuresome aspects including high speed bursts I now use a digital darkroom, Topaz etc and I can shoot all day with virtually no cost involved. I will soon add a R7 or R10 to my collection for use with my 100-400 & Tamron G2 150-600. I am a pensioner and have limited funds available for my photographic pursuits though I will upgrade my Eos R to at least an R6..Since retirement I have done mostly bird photography with Panasonic G9 & 100-400 (FF equiv 200-800) image quality is good enough but down on the Eos R though is much lighter and easier to carry. Thanks again for your videos I have used a lot of your suggestions and been happy with the results and as you have mentioned, never too old to learn more tricks
This is very useful, even for us non-bird photographers. Thank you for doing such an in-depth job!
Thanks Creighton, it is my pleasure, Cheers, Duade 👍
Hi Duade! Excellent clarifying video! Fuji has 2, and you can choose them both or one at a time :) Hugs!
Thanks Daniela, I think they have the best system of all, that it starts in EFCS and switches to mechanical at high SS. They should all have that option. Cheers, Duade
Thanks for this video which turned out to be a lot more interesting and informative than I'd anticipated.
To answer your question: On my 90D (DSLR) all three shutter modes are possible. The electronic (silent) mode I use mostly for candid portraits. Of course only Live View works in that mode, but that's fine: People are less suspicious that they're being photographed when you don't hold the viewfinder up to your eye. And I do get feedback: A briefly flashing white frame around the edge of the screen tells me that I took a picture.
Otherwise I mostly use the mechanical shutter. The shutter noise is very moderate and much less disturbing on the 90D than on any of my older cameras. Especially the high frequency noise is well dampened. Importantly it doesn't sound anything like a gun.
The first curtain thing I've actually never tried.
By the way, now I have yet another reason for not buying the R7.
(...which is the only Canon mirrorless I could possibly be interested in.)
Thanks Lau, great to hear you are enjoying your 90D. The R7 would still be an upgrade but if you don't need the 15fps and the eye tracking AF they are very similar. Cheers, Duade
Really good video Duade. Thanks for doing the research and giving such good examples. I shoot with a Z9 and a Z6. The difference is more noticeable during whip panning. I can confirm that the Z9 has no perceptible rolling shutter in every situation I have shot.
Keep up the great work. 👍🏻
Thanks Joseph, great to hear, the Z9 has been an incredible hit for Nikon, I can only hope the R1 is as good. Cheers, Duade
@@Duade cheers. I hope the R1 is a great camera too. In the past Canon have been great innovators. It would be good to see them at the very pointy end again. All the best.
Nice video Duane and very educational. Nikon Z9 has 3.7 millisecond which is mean 1/270 second.
So at last I am understanding the differences ! Thanks a ton
Super helpful as usual. Really want this camera for the bird tracking and weight but had concerns about the rolling shutter.
Thanks Marisa, it is fine in EFCS or mechanical, but the shutter is very loud. Cheers, Duade
Thank excelent video. One detail, R10 electronic shutter do not allow flash..... on hummingbid photograpy the flash on the feathers create a very interesting effects, also on macrophotograpy the flash is essential
Thanks Juan, very true and I should have mentioned that in the disadvantages. Cheers, Duade
Very good video Duade! One thing to keep in mind about the 14bits advantage of MS, is that this benefit only applies to picture taken under ISO800, because 14bits DR is only achievable at base ISO. By the time you cross ISO800 you will get about 12bits of DR, at ISO3200 around 10bits and at 6400 around 9bits.. Important point since most wildlife pictures are usually shot at over ISO800. (Look the dynamic range chart of the R5 for example)
Even more reason to start with the maximum bit depth!
At over iso 1600 I don’t there’s a measurable difference at all
Thanks for this excellent discussion of the shutter modes. I wish I knew these differences and their effects much sooner, it explains many of the issues I’ve experienced with my R5. The chart you made is most helpful in understanding the differences in the various camera models and their sensor technology. I wish this was more readily available. Great job Duade!
It is my pleasure, I am happy to hear it was helpful, Cheers, Duade
Great video duade! I am 12, and you have helped me learn so much!
That is fantastic Clayton, have fun with your photography. Cheers, Duade
Best video i seen in a long time, thank you so much, super helpful
It is my pleasure, Cheers, Duade 👍
Very informative video. Thanks for doing it. I've seen very few issues with rolling shutter on my Olympus EM-1 Mark III. With a very few exceptions, including my photo that you used in the video, the rolling shutter issues haven't caused any really strange abstracts. From what I understand, the new OM1 with its stacked sensor is even better. I'd guess within a few years rolling shutter will be a thing of the past in new mirrorless cameras. I love the ability to shoot silently.
Agree. Also use electronic 1st curtain with Canon- surprised so few do. Looking forward to next gen Canon R5 to solve this.
Clearly you have a gift for teaching. Brilliant content. I actually understand these concepts now.
good explanation. thanks...but still need to digest how you do your sensor readout
Hi Allen, if you google measure sensor readout speed you will see lots of examples, mine is far from scientific but I measured the flickering lights which is a good guide. Cheers, Duade
I wanted to add another reason for using EFCS or MS: increased dynamic range. Most sensors lose one or even two stops of dynamic range in ES. So if you’ve got crazy backlight or very poorly lit conditions, use the EFCS or MS.
Yeah, but for stills using slower SS and 30fps for a lucky shot generally will give you the best results in low light, not to mention the shutter shock issue at low SS which you'd use for low light.
Obviously this doesn't apply to faster shutter speeds, but it comes back again to EFCS for faster action, ES for stills. Nothing changes much.
Generally speaking 12 bit (which is ES 30fps vs 14 bit in mechanical) is truly sufficient I find for flexibility of editing and IQ and don't notice much difference with 14 bit. But 10 bit (which I believe is what pre-capture mode goes down to), that I can definitely notice a decrease in IQ when editing.
Yes I agree, the hit to image quality in 12 bit for me a no go. Particularly for birds in flight, with the tricky exposure I want maximum dynamic range. Canon sensors now have good dynamic range, but using their cameras in 12 bit mode reduces the dynamic range back to how their old sensors used to work ! One step forward.........
@@WildlifeInMotion That's why I want to start with the full bit depth! The plunge in dynamic range is even deeper if you start with 12 instead of 14.
@@simonthibodeau7082 Salut Simon...i have some difficulty to understand technical things when it is in English..Duade make a vidéo about the settings to put with our Sigma 150=600mm C but i miss something because image of the sigma usb dock were too fast...Do you have those instructions in FRENCH ? I have to decide if i keep my new R7 and when i read all of the defaults from Duade, it seem that this is not a good device and I'm probably better to stay with my 90D...Am i wrong ?
@@PB-qd1il je l'ai en quelque part, je te réponds demain et sinon je les ré-écrirai!
Geez..Thanks so much Duade.. You made a great argument for sticking with my DSLR for birds and action! Thanks for the incredible work and detail you put into these videos!
Duade , thank you for an anology on shutters, i am now educated on their
differences. I shall wait and see what advances the big brands bring out. Maybe the Nikon R6iii addresses theses shortfalls.
First time I've watched one of your videos. You're a fine presenter, both in manner and content, and a pleasure to listen too. Even though I'm squarely in the Nikon camp, I found it informative.
The Nikon Z6II, Z9 (and likely others) have two stabilization modes: NORMAL and SPORT, the latter designed for quick or erratic objects. SPORT, at least, disables during panning and is also recommended for use on a tripod. I've never noticed any rolling shutter in either body, but it might be there. On the Z6II, I prefer the mechanical shutter as it is less prone to banding under mixed household LED lights, although banding isn't otherwise a problem. In lieu of a mechanical shutter in the Z9, I usually use a very faint artificial shutter noise. The Z9 has an actual silent mode which quells lens sounds and the sounds of stabilization engaging, etc, and it's too quiet.
With all the geewhizzery in new cameras, I'm still just as amazed at how fast, accurate and reliable electromechanical D/SLR Mirror/Shutter/AF/Aperture systems have historically been.
ahhh you learned alot as you say... well you also thaught a lot... so that made me learn a lot... more detailed than I knew... well than I thought I knew! Thank you for this great work from the Netherlands! Cheerio!
Thanks Max, yes, it was fun all around, Cheers, Duade
As usual, so clear & precise, well done & thankyou Duade.
Thanks George, my pleasure ,Cheers, Duade
Thanks for all the great videos. New to shooting and recently got an R7. You're videos have taught me a lot, from gear and software reviews to the technical and mechanical side of photography. Thanks 👍
Thanks for your great video. You have always something useful info. I am an owner of R6. I can see many times rolling shutter issues with moving subjects. Thanks again for your helpful content.🙏
Thanks for the comment, glad it was helpful, Cheers, Duade
This was a VERY good and informative video, Duade! I didn't answer the poll myself, since it didn't seem active. I pressed the first curtain one, but nothing happened. Also: couldn't answer the "Why" question without sheepishly admit I didn't know! I used Jan's video when doing my settings on my R6 when I bought it, and at least then he said something to make me choose that one. Not changed it since then, bcs that's me: not really *that* knowledgeable about some finer technichal points! The R6 in that mode is way more quiet than the 7D II, so I've been very happy with the more discreet presence while photographing. Haven't been in any situations with shy animals as of yet, but will change to full electronic mode when that happens.
So, I'm extremely pleased you explained what that dratted electronic first curtain really is!
Also, about your previous lovely video: I did a long and happy comment that you never responded to. Since that's *very* unlike you, I at last went back to that video to check for my comment and see if you've answered and I just hadn't been noticed. To my enormous surprise/chagrin the comment was gone! And I just couldn't bring myself to repeat it, so long after the fact. So, if you wondered why I didn't make happy squeals about my Swordbill being shown (and the Rock Sandpiper), know that I did! It just somehow disappeared.
(Believe me: I scrolled through ALL those comments twice, to be sure I hadn't missed it...)
Thanks for your comment and glad it was helpful, I think EFCS is the way to go if you don't mind the noise. The R6 electronic shutter is very good though and should not have too much rolling shutter should you encounter flighty subjects. Oh so sorry about the comment, I will check my end but I answer my members as a priority. Oddly I randomly get comments pop up from months ago so perhaps one day it will appear. I loved your images and I am happy that you enjoyed seeing them. Cheers, Duade
Just checked my end and your last comment was on the community post asking for photos so it appears the gremlins ran off with it. Cheers, Duade
Really great video! I have both the R5 and recently the R7 so very relevant to me. I've never tried electronic first curtain and didn't understand what it was, so this is very helpful. it's still a confusing subject though, especially as subjects can suddenly change from perched to flight very quickly, so no time to change shutter mode. I've also noticed the warping and wobbling on the R7 but as you say most individual frames are useable. Rather rules out focus stacking though. Even with the R5 the wobbling and warping can be real pain for focus stacking. But no option to use mechanical shutter for that!
Thanks Stephen, I suspect EFCS should be fine in most circumstances. Best bet is to try the different modes yourself and see which one works best. Cheers, Duade
@@Duade Hi Duade, thanks for taking the time to reply. But I think the focus bracketing option,which needs to be used to collect the images for focus stacking on both the R5 and R7, automatically engages the electronic shutter - like the pre-capture mode on the R7.
@@stephenburch9178 Thanks Stephen, yes, I believe that is the case, Cheers, Duade
That was very informative and I’m going to have to watch again because there’s so much information to take in. It goes along way to explain why only yesterday I was photographing Grebes and the blue square was on the eye but the image was slightly soft due to pointing down to a dark water and the shutter speed crashed. Mick .G uk.
Excellent presentation. With my R5 I tend to default to EFS since I have had problems with rolling shutter with small birds in flight and ES. However, I will move to ES often with larger, somewhat slower moving birds where rolling shutter is not noticeable. It is ironic that the primary situation where I need the high FPS available with ES, small, quick birds in flight, is also the most susceptible to rolling shutter, which is a bit irritating. For me, EFS offers the best compromise, though I go back and forth a lot. But then I see C shaped wing. Ha!
Thanks Ben I am similar, ES the majority of the time but EFCS if I want to avoid RS. Cheers, Duade 👍
I tend to think of ES as something to be reserved for very skittish birds and animals, where silence is the most important thing. Though more is always better, of course, 15 fps is still blazing fast for the vast majority of action. Of course I can remember when we thought a "power winder" cranking out 5 fps was lightning quick!
Very informative, finally a video that I can understand, thank you Duade, brilliant!!
My pleasure Ian, glad to hear it was informative, Cheers, Duade
Hi Duade, I love the work that you are doing. There was an incident in San Francisco, where a photographer while working on a wedding was beaten by two-armed gunmen and pistol-whipped. This photographer never let go of his camera gear and unfortunately, he took a beating. Two photography channels offered up a challenge for the Community with Channels to speak up on the safety and awareness of photographers and videographers alike.
You are such a Photographer. The two channels that are talking about this and offering this challenge are Vahagraphy and 247 Media Group. If you get time out of your busy schedule, check this out starting with Vahagraphy, who brought this out to the community on his channel and please make some noise about this on your channel as well as it threatens our art and it is often forgotten!!!
Thanks sid, sorry to hear what happened, that is terrible, glad to hear those channels are raising awareness. Cheers, Duade
Another fine upload, thanks Duade! Excellent breakdown of the different shutter types & their pros & cons. I thought it was very helpful & imformative. I've been using mostly electronic on the R7 & have had very few real problems. It definitely alters some images when compared to those images taken just before or after, but I have rarely found it ruining many images for me.
That being said, I have taken very few BIF, but plan to shoot mechanical for those anyway to eliminate the potential. I have shot some with the EFC mode & the few times I tried it, it seemed that I got noticeably fewer sharp shots than electronic - even at 1/250 or 1/320. Definitely need to shoot more shots in that hybrid mode to make full determination.
It was great to hear what your experiences have been & appreciate you sharing the information. Thanks again for the effort & may your spring sessions there be rewarding. Best regards ~ Chris
Thanks Chris, I am very similar to you, I will be sure to highlight those points in the review. Cheers, Duade 👍
Thanks, Duade. Look forward to the full review & what you have found in this body overall.
Congrats on 50k subs, Duade! Good for you, mate. The notice & appreciation are well deserved. Seems like it wasn't that long ago you mentioned 1k subs in a video :)
Thanks mate, I really appreciate the ongoing support and I am very grateful to have reached 50K, kind of blows my mind to be honest. Cheers, Duade
And there is Fujifilm with his mix of best of all in one settings. I have that in X-H2. Up to 1/2000s we using EFC, above 1/2000 up to 1/8000 is MS and above 1/8000 it use EL. No changes needed. We are chosing one "shutter" setting and we have best off all.
Thanks Lukasz, a great setting for sure, wish we had that option on Canon. With wildlife and slower lenses f4+ we don't see the EFCS issues portrait shooters do but having the option would be excellent. Cheers, Duade
Good info. I can think of a bunch of things to do with the extra money but I wish the R7 was in the $2000 to $2200 range, with the higher cost being for a better sensor and better processor. I think the irony of rolling shutter distortion is that a major reason to use the electronic shutter is for the higher frame rate when shooting a scene that's changing very rapidly, but those rapid changes are what causes the distortions.
I fist met you on your video about you and are similar to you in that in 2001 I too ended up with a pacemaker and thought my life is over but when seeing your storie you are so inspiring and I'm ready too take on this birding thing
Thanks, sorry to hear about your heart, if you are in Australia we are lucky to have the birds we have. Cheers, Duade
@@Duade yes I'm in aus qld
this is a very good video, explaining rolling shutter and the effects of slow readout electronic shutters. Here is some more information on Stacked Sensors. In a regular sensor the image is recorded and then transferred off the sensor to the co-processor. In a stacked sensor starting in 2017 with the A9, there are three layers to the sensor. The top layer works just like the regular sensor, the second layer is just a layer of ram, it just temporarily holds the image, the third layer is where image manipulation begins (This is important because the main sensor is by far the fastest chip on the camera). The design of the stacked sensor is 10-20 times the speed of a traditional sensor. The fantastic speed also allows for several other advantages. 1. the incredible speed allows cameras with Stacked sensors to have much faster shutter speeds most have 1/32,000 which is 4x a regular top speed of 1/8000. 2. the much faster readout allow your AF system to function much faster than the 10-20 times a second that most cameras calculate AF, the Sony A9, Sony A9II and Canon R3 all have the ability to adjust AF and AE at 60 times a second. The Sony A1 doubles that to an amazing 120 times a second. 3. the Stacked sensor cameras have a true blackout free view in the viewfinder. 4. Most stacked sensor camera have a higher frame rate available for the electronic viewfinder which also leads to better and sharper images in the viewfinder. I have had a stacked sensor camera since 2017 and even though I currently own three full frame cameras with traditional BSI sensors, if I want to shoot anything moving fast I take my A1, it is just so far above all the regular sensor cameras (and even far above the other Stacked sensor cameras available today). Here is a video from Sony that shows how it works. This the original A9 from the fall of 2017. ua-cam.com/video/6Q-nzcf8Pkw/v-deo.html
Thanks for the explanation Roger, very helpful, this helps to explain why the AF on the R7 feels so different to the R5/R3, the sensor is just a little slow to handle all the AF data. I do look forward to getting a stacked sensor one day. Thanks again, Cheers, Duade
Duade, excellent video! I only used the R7 with electronic shutter once to get birds in flight. The buildings in the background were completely tilted to the left as I panned in that direction. Never again! I use electronic shutter for perched birds at 1/500 second, and still get occasional distortion. Could be due to the IBIS as I am using the 100-500 lens.
Thanks for sharing, yes, the warping is a drama at times, guess we are lucky to have a few options to choose from. Cheers, Duade
Another top video, thanks Duade.
Thanks, it is my pleasure, Cheers, Duade
Duane, thank you thank you thank you for this explanation of rolling shutter. As others have said yours is among the best explanations! I shoot Sony cameras, and my first experience with rolling shutter was an s-shaped hummingbird wing, then the leaning vertical trees and fences. Most of my mirrorless experience is with the sony a7r and a7 series, also the crop sensor cameras - all of which have pretty bad rolling shutter. I shoot electronic shutter most of the time because it is quiet and there is obviously no wear and tear on the shutter. I spend a lot of time shooting large soaring or “slow wing speed” birds, herons, cranes and raptors, also perched birds, so it’s not always an issue. I have a newer A7riv, which has terrible rolling shutter, about as bad as a cropped sensor camera I used to own, the a6500. I also have an A9 and pick that up almost exclusively when shooting BIF. I’m using the mechanical shutter more with the a7riv. I still have my old a7riii as a backup - I’ll have to compare the two a7r cameras. I suspect the riv is worse - but not sure now. I have a question for you: I really like that thin cover on your lens - what is it? Do you have an affiliate link to it? Thank you again, keep up the great work!
Thanks for the input Karn, always good to hear from Sony users, yes I have heard those cameras have slow read out also. If you google 3M Lens Cover and your lens you should get a few options. Just be aware it is a jigsaw to apply and took me close to 3 hours to apply. Cheers, Duade
Thanks you. Finally I undestand the problem .
It is my pleasure Alberto, Cheers, Duade
Thank you so much - this has been very useful!
My pleasure Sue, Cheers, Duade