Not a Penn State Fan, but I do enjoy watching them wrestle and don’t root against them ever necessarily unless it’s just to see an upset. I do enjoy the program a lot, and don’t believe I’ve missed a wrestling episode in months. Just wanted to clarify in case anything I say through text is taken with a disrespectful don’t, which is not the intent. 125- I wouldn’t say that I don’t have high expectations for “Lightning Luke,” I’m just not sure I’m ready to count him as a 4x champ (especially since we know what kind of talent is coming up through the pipeline). I just don’t agree that the rest of the field isn’t on his level. Figs, Noto, Ramos are all more than capable to get the job done against him with little shock. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Luke win against any of those guys either, but to insinuate they’re not in the same league is a stretch. Even guys from the Big 12 like Volk, Sprately, Stevo, Jordan, etc are going to be really tough outs. 133- I don’t have an issue with Davis being anywhere from 9-11. Cannon obviously has a resume that merits a higher ranking, but because of his injury it’s been a while since we’ve seen him. I’m fine with him being 11, but wouldn’t call anywhere between 9 and 11… I could even see him falling behind Phipps, Wells, etc, but don’t have an issue with him being ranked above them either. 141- totally agree on all counts. I guess the ultimate tiebreaker is Alriez having an undefeated season (I guess?). I’m honestly a little surprised so many people have made this weight sound like a 2 horse race with how razor thin Beau and Mendez were last season. I don’t like Beau vs Alirez based on prior match ups (freestyle and folkstyle), but that’s not to say a Brock hardy couldn’t upset Alirez on one side of the bracket and give Beau a nice path to gold. I realize that’s sort of obsolete since the topic is rankings, but still. 149 and 157 I really, really like your input. At first glance, I thought both guys were ranking appropriately, until I heard your perspective. I don’t have a good reason to suggest why SVN should be as high as he is, other than the last time we saw him to got the job done against parco. The point you made on Kasak really got me scratching my head though. I can’t justify him being lower than 3rd. Other than the Rathjen loss last season, I believe everyone he lost to was an all American at some point. Keller might have had less “lower quality losses”, maybe (I wouldn’t say so) with his worst loss last season being against Lewan probably, but Kasak taking 3rd to Keller’s 5th should probably give the edge to Tyler. 165- totally agree. Unless Hamiti decides to return unexpectedly, I don’t see anyone giving messinbrink much of an issue. I’m sure he’ll be challenged at some point because it is D1 wrestling, but of all the people in the entire ncaa this year, he’d be the one to surprise me the most if he doesn’t win. 174- I see your point. I’m assuming Keegan having 2 titles to Levi’s 1 is probably the trump card in this scenario. That and probably safe to say Keegan has more quality wins (nothing against Levi’s competition level, but Keegan has had quite the stud on his hit list). I wouldn’t cry foul if they switched it, especially considering Levi won his title more recently. 184- totally agree. The right man is ranked #1. I think this is going to be a match for the ages. I would probably lean Carter slightly, but using my useless wrestling math, based on how they both did against Hidlay, albeit different styles, you can get the sense that they’re going to be close in ability. I would absolutely not feel comfortable putting real money on either. 197- well said regarding Josh Barr. Like you, I’m not sold that he’ll be a sure fire all American this season, but he will be at some point. If he’s on the podium in March I’m not shocked, but I’d probably reserve any hard prediction until we see him go a few times at 197. Hwt- I agree that Kerk is the favorite, but like Luke, I think it’s a little much to say no one can beat him. We still haven’t seen the Yonger/Kerk match, which would be an interesting style match up (although I think Kerk rides him as long as he wants, which might be the difference). Also, a kid like Feldman has a really steep trajectory , we saw it last season. We know that he’s capable of stopping Kerk from taking him down, and we know that he can take him down. Can he do it in the same match? Easier said than done, but let’s not hand him a national title in an easy fashion just yet. To do so doesn’t do justice to the level of competition he’s competing against. Again, I don’t mean to come off as disrespectful in my comment (or novel might be more appropriate). I believe all of your opinions have quality details to back them up, even if I don’t completely agree. Thanks for the show and all the work that goes into it. As I said, I’m not a Penn state fan at all but I really appreciate your program.
Ryan, thanks for this comment. I did not sense anything condescending, but thank you for clarifying anyway. I enjoy these discussions, so I really appreciate the time you took to share your thoughts here. I look forward to them again on future episodes.
Not off topic at all! I discussed how he was not ranked to start the season, but that will change soon enough. He is the best wrestler in the nation at 125, ranking or not.
interesting thought re Haines moving up two weights. probably shows it's not a big deal if it's just more muscle mass. because it's more about technique, experience and competitiveness.
Another great assessment! It's hard to believe everybody who had another year of eligibility came back again. This team is clearly stacked but I have to believe some will transfer so they can see the mat and possibly place in NCAA's
Iron sharpens iron, as they say. But I agree, you have 4-5 years normally for eligibility. Some people are going to want to compete more, as opposed to just train and practice.
AJ Ferarri #1??? He'll have to do far better than a SV no takedown match vs Glazier to prove he is back to finalist form. His constant flexng is both impressive and comical. Let's pump the brakes until we see if the Bakersfield room: (1) Has enough talent and coaching to lead to tourney level form (2) He can get back to the level he was at 3 years ago mentally and skill wise (3) He can get back down to 197 and be effective (4) He can stay enrolled, and/or out of jail until March. It's hard to believe he can do all of these things. My vote is a big frigging "no chance". Zach you are reaching, but that's what you do.
197 is crowded. Even if AJ Ferrari doesn’t win a championship because of on the mat or off the mat reasons, I stand by my take that Josh Barr is not a national title contender in a weight class that isn’t naturally his. Thank you for your reasoning as to why Ferrari might be overrated when returning to action.
@@LockedOnNittanyLions184 to 197 isn’t that big of a deal if he puts the weight on properly, Brooks won the hodge going up, Bo started at 174, the better wrestler wins
@@mcjohnson31Barr isn’t Aaron Brooks, nor is he Bo Nickal. He was originally a 174 pounder, then built to 184 (expecting to wrestle and start at 184.) now he’s going UP again to a weight not close to his. No, the only delusional guy is you. Calm tf down and look at the facts. I wouldn’t be shocked if he AAd or high AAd. Shit he may become a finalist but the 197 weigh class, as stated be a NITTNAY LION FAN is loaded.
So, He is an undeniable talent. BUT: 1. Is that really questionable (Bakersfield room). 2. It was the Covid year. Doubt it matters a lot, but it does matter. 197 that year wasn't impressive in regard to depth (upsets unlikely). 3. Meh, he will make it. I do believe that want/ desire is there, just not in a linear fashion... meaning, distractions play a roll and he is a lush when it comes to that. 4. Iffy. We know he has enough brain power to graduate from somewhere, but is that same mental edge enough to keep him in line?..... TBD, it can go either way. AND .... 5. Carter just built a brand new home in 665 Deadlift's head. Personally? I can't stand the dude and his self indulgence, or his dad, or his brothers .... or anyone that buys tickets to his ridiculous clown show.
So let me get this straight. These players are supposedly making six figures in NIL, and me, making less of them are supposed to give them donations on some stupid app? Give me a break.
tough to put too much weight on a freestyle consi match. I’d put more weight into it if it was not in the consis. Also O’Toole beat Carr 9-4, Haines beat O’Toole 6-0 and then Carr beat Haines 8-2. So who knows. Regardless look forward to the match between the two come March
@@LockedOnNittanyLions How about Facundo beating the breaks off Haines earlier in the year then? Sr Nationals? Does that not count? Or was it U23? Whatever, he beat him soundly. In fact, I thought he beat both MM and Haines and teched Haines.
Undefeated returning national champ in folkstyle. Dominated O’Toole in there head to head freestyle match (not Haines strongest format). Rankings don’t pass the smell test
Almost like freestyle doesn’t translate to folk. But even with the rankings. One is a returning national champ the other a finalist so that should’ve put Haines above O’Toole. The reason I think O’Toole is ahead is because he’s a MULTI time national champ, the guy he lost to is gone, and he’s only going up one weight not two.
Oh bullshit. Luke Lillendahl is the #1 Wrestler and "it's not even close?" Figs "isn't even close?" This is silly and over-the-top homer-ism. Yeah, Lillendahl CAN absolutely win it at '25. In fact, I have him winning it. But he's going to have to go through several studs. Davino down at '25?
Enjoy your Penn State wrestling coverage! Looking forward to seeing how things go this season. Hope everyone can stay and don't transfer out.
Appreciate it, Tony! It will be tough to retain everyone, unfortunately.
Not a Penn State Fan, but I do enjoy watching them wrestle and don’t root against them ever necessarily unless it’s just to see an upset. I do enjoy the program a lot, and don’t believe I’ve missed a wrestling episode in months. Just wanted to clarify in case anything I say through text is taken with a disrespectful don’t, which is not the intent.
125- I wouldn’t say that I don’t have high expectations for “Lightning Luke,” I’m just not sure I’m ready to count him as a 4x champ (especially since we know what kind of talent is coming up through the pipeline). I just don’t agree that the rest of the field isn’t on his level. Figs, Noto, Ramos are all more than capable to get the job done against him with little shock. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Luke win against any of those guys either, but to insinuate they’re not in the same league is a stretch. Even guys from the Big 12 like Volk, Sprately, Stevo, Jordan, etc are going to be really tough outs.
133- I don’t have an issue with Davis being anywhere from 9-11. Cannon obviously has a resume that merits a higher ranking, but because of his injury it’s been a while since we’ve seen him. I’m fine with him being 11, but wouldn’t call anywhere between 9 and 11… I could even see him falling behind Phipps, Wells, etc, but don’t have an issue with him being ranked above them either.
141- totally agree on all counts. I guess the ultimate tiebreaker is Alriez having an undefeated season (I guess?). I’m honestly a little surprised so many people have made this weight sound like a 2 horse race with how razor thin Beau and Mendez were last season. I don’t like Beau vs Alirez based on prior match ups (freestyle and folkstyle), but that’s not to say a Brock hardy couldn’t upset Alirez on one side of the bracket and give Beau a nice path to gold. I realize that’s sort of obsolete since the topic is rankings, but still.
149 and 157 I really, really like your input. At first glance, I thought both guys were ranking appropriately, until I heard your perspective. I don’t have a good reason to suggest why SVN should be as high as he is, other than the last time we saw him to got the job done against parco. The point you made on Kasak really got me scratching my head though. I can’t justify him being lower than 3rd. Other than the Rathjen loss last season, I believe everyone he lost to was an all American at some point. Keller might have had less “lower quality losses”, maybe (I wouldn’t say so) with his worst loss last season being against Lewan probably, but Kasak taking 3rd to Keller’s 5th should probably give the edge to Tyler.
165- totally agree. Unless Hamiti decides to return unexpectedly, I don’t see anyone giving messinbrink much of an issue. I’m sure he’ll be challenged at some point because it is D1 wrestling, but of all the people in the entire ncaa this year, he’d be the one to surprise me the most if he doesn’t win.
174- I see your point. I’m assuming Keegan having 2 titles to Levi’s 1 is probably the trump card in this scenario. That and probably safe to say Keegan has more quality wins (nothing against Levi’s competition level, but Keegan has had quite the stud on his hit list). I wouldn’t cry foul if they switched it, especially considering Levi won his title more recently.
184- totally agree. The right man is ranked #1. I think this is going to be a match for the ages. I would probably lean Carter slightly, but using my useless wrestling math, based on how they both did against Hidlay, albeit different styles, you can get the sense that they’re going to be close in ability. I would absolutely not feel comfortable putting real money on either.
197- well said regarding Josh Barr. Like you, I’m not sold that he’ll be a sure fire all American this season, but he will be at some point. If he’s on the podium in March I’m not shocked, but I’d probably reserve any hard prediction until we see him go a few times at 197.
Hwt- I agree that Kerk is the favorite, but like Luke, I think it’s a little much to say no one can beat him. We still haven’t seen the Yonger/Kerk match, which would be an interesting style match up (although I think Kerk rides him as long as he wants, which might be the difference). Also, a kid like Feldman has a really steep trajectory , we saw it last season. We know that he’s capable of stopping Kerk from taking him down, and we know that he can take him down. Can he do it in the same match? Easier said than done, but let’s not hand him a national title in an easy fashion just yet. To do so doesn’t do justice to the level of competition he’s competing against.
Again, I don’t mean to come off as disrespectful in my comment (or novel might be more appropriate). I believe all of your opinions have quality details to back them up, even if I don’t completely agree. Thanks for the show and all the work that goes into it. As I said, I’m not a Penn state fan at all but I really appreciate your program.
Ryan, thanks for this comment. I did not sense anything condescending, but thank you for clarifying anyway. I enjoy these discussions, so I really appreciate the time you took to share your thoughts here. I look forward to them again on future episodes.
Off topic, but I am stoked to see Lilledahl @125. He is gonna start PSU off on the right foot, setting the pace and momentum
Not off topic at all! I discussed how he was not ranked to start the season, but that will change soon enough. He is the best wrestler in the nation at 125, ranking or not.
I'm very excited for wrestling season this year!
As you should!
interesting thought re Haines moving up two weights. probably shows it's not a big deal if it's just more muscle mass. because it's more about technique, experience and competitiveness.
Another great assessment! It's hard to believe everybody who had another year of eligibility came back again. This team is clearly stacked but I have to believe some will transfer so they can see the mat and possibly place in NCAA's
Iron sharpens iron, as they say. But I agree, you have 4-5 years normally for eligibility. Some people are going to want to compete more, as opposed to just train and practice.
Good stuff Zach.
Great breakdown
Thanks!
AJ Ferarri #1??? He'll have to do far better than a SV no takedown match vs Glazier to prove he is back to finalist form. His constant flexng is both impressive and comical. Let's pump the brakes until we see if the Bakersfield room: (1) Has enough talent and coaching to lead to tourney level form (2) He can get back to the level he was at 3 years ago mentally and skill wise (3) He can get back down to 197 and be effective (4) He can stay enrolled, and/or out of jail until March. It's hard to believe he can do all of these things. My vote is a big frigging "no chance". Zach you are reaching, but that's what you do.
197 is crowded. Even if AJ Ferrari doesn’t win a championship because of on the mat or off the mat reasons, I stand by my take that Josh Barr is not a national title contender in a weight class that isn’t naturally his. Thank you for your reasoning as to why Ferrari might be overrated when returning to action.
@@LockedOnNittanyLions184 to 197 isn’t that big of a deal if he puts the weight on properly, Brooks won the hodge going up, Bo started at 174, the better wrestler wins
@@mcjohnson31Barr isn’t Aaron Brooks, nor is he Bo Nickal. He was originally a 174 pounder, then built to 184 (expecting to wrestle and start at 184.) now he’s going UP again to a weight not close to his. No, the only delusional guy is you. Calm tf down and look at the facts. I wouldn’t be shocked if he AAd or high AAd. Shit he may become a finalist but the 197 weigh class, as stated be a NITTNAY LION FAN is loaded.
Barr will AA year 1
So, He is an undeniable talent. BUT:
1. Is that really questionable (Bakersfield room). 2. It was the Covid year. Doubt it matters a lot, but it does matter. 197 that year wasn't impressive in regard to depth (upsets unlikely). 3. Meh, he will make it. I do believe that want/ desire is there, just not in a linear fashion... meaning, distractions play a roll and he is a lush when it comes to that. 4. Iffy. We know he has enough brain power to graduate from somewhere, but is that same mental edge enough to keep him in line?..... TBD, it can go either way. AND .... 5. Carter just built a brand new home in 665 Deadlift's head.
Personally? I can't stand the dude and his self indulgence, or his dad, or his brothers .... or anyone that buys tickets to his ridiculous clown show.
Looking forward to wrestling season
We all should be! Penn State wrestling is in another spot to set records again.
Another stellar podcast...Dad
Thanks Dad!
So let me get this straight. These players are supposedly making six figures in NIL, and me, making less of them are supposed to give them donations on some stupid app? Give me a break.
tough to put too much weight on a freestyle consi match. I’d put more weight into it if it was not in the consis. Also O’Toole beat Carr 9-4, Haines beat O’Toole 6-0 and then Carr beat Haines 8-2. So who knows. Regardless look forward to the match between the two come March
It’s all about matchup. Maybe Carr is a mismatch for Haines, while Haines is mismatch for O’Toole. I’ve learned that A + B /= C in sports 😂
@@LockedOnNittanyLions right on. That’s holds true along went different guys have different intensities on front and back side
@@LockedOnNittanyLions How about Facundo beating the breaks off Haines earlier in the year then? Sr Nationals? Does that not count? Or was it U23? Whatever, he beat him soundly. In fact, I thought he beat both MM and Haines and teched Haines.
Davis redshirts IF Ngao is not injured. Davis to 141 next season to replace Bartlett.
Good thinking. Logically, it makes a lot of sense.
I’m calling OSU to take 2 at natties.
Undefeated returning national champ in folkstyle. Dominated O’Toole in there head to head freestyle match (not Haines strongest format). Rankings don’t pass the smell test
Well it’s a good thing they wrestle and not get awards off rankings.
Almost like freestyle doesn’t translate to folk. But even with the rankings. One is a returning national champ the other a finalist so that should’ve put Haines above O’Toole.
The reason I think O’Toole is ahead is because he’s a MULTI time national champ, the guy he lost to is gone, and he’s only going up one weight not two.
@@xzjayz7925 Good points.
My reasoning, too. But I guess Intermat doesn't consider freestyle, only folkstyle. And honestly, that's how it should be.
I don't think Levi is able to wrestle the 5 matches and still RS. I believe that is just for Freshman.
I can double check. Someone I trust in wrestling said that is the case, however.
He can’t wrestle 5 matches. Thats only for true freshmen
@@pish6969 Yes, confirmed that now.
Ryder?
Shane van Ness will never make it through the season. He is put together with rubber glue which is a shame because he was amazing
Some of those guys may transfer to Oklahoma State.
It's a strong possibility, yes.
Aaron Nagao is list as injured !
Aaron won't wrestle again for PSU.The team is loaded.
I have heard rumors myself, but cannot confirm anything yet.
Oh bullshit. Luke Lillendahl is the #1 Wrestler and "it's not even close?"
Figs "isn't even close?" This is silly and over-the-top homer-ism.
Yeah, Lillendahl CAN absolutely win it at '25. In fact, I have him winning it. But he's going to have to go through several studs. Davino down at '25?