My personal theory is that their genetic tinkering is usually supposed to render them helplessly "wanting"... But Harry is too much of a loser, and too big into his Bromance, to have that affect him. . It is like seeing a man challenge you to a race after you shattered his kneecaps... Only to find out he can run with his arms A-ok.
@@Nionivek 🤣 only problem is that all they want is to procreate - which doesn't seem to work through normal "sexual intercourse". So them being interested in Harrys little distraction is more like a kid playing with it's food ...
I just can't see why the writers had so much trouble with Harry. He's the rookie. That's unlimited potential there. Make him the black-ops commando, the hacker, or the peace ambassador who brokers deals. Instead the show just keeps him as the rookie throughout all seven seasons. How could they drop the ball that bad?
There's an easy character development of Harry as the initially fresh faced graduate from the academy gradually becoming harder and more jaded as the show goes on, especially given what he's gone through. Essentially while Paris moves away from his initial rebelliousness and Seven gradually thawing to Starfleet's ways, you'd have Kim as the counterpart, growing more cynical and doubtful about the very same. Its nothing groundbreaking but it gives the potential for conflict and a sense that the events that have happened over the course the series actually matter.
@@MerelyAFan _"... it gives the potential for conflict and a sense that the events that have happened over the course the series actually matter."_ And that's exactly why it could not be allowed to happen.
@@MerelyAFan I think that was the goal at first. Harry represents idealistic Starfleet on a show where it would be tested between times Janeway didn't live up to ideals, and Maquis views of the world and how the Federation isn't helping. It's set up early between the fast friendship with Tom, and being captured with B'leanna, the Maquis most associated with jaded cynicism. As the Maquis plots dropped, so did that angle, and since you can't be the rookie for years, they lost any idea of what to do with him beyond these bad "bad romance" plots.
@@MerelyAFan Episodic storytelling above all. No character growth. Reset button. Even Seven's growth was slow and repetitive, dealing with the same issues.
The backstory the aliens claim Harry has is kind of the same as Odo's. Except Odo's species is immortal and likes playing the long game, so it does not matter if it takes a few centuries and he ended up in another quadrant by accident.
Also Odo didn't found his people by chance. His people controlled the entire quadrant and surely would have been notified, if some shape shifter would show up anywhere.
Plus Odo was part of a unknown race before then AND it wasn't like he was found on earth. the SHEER number of hoops required to make Kim an alien without him knowing is crazy. the MOST logical explanation I could come up with is that the real Kim died and was replaced by a doppelganger (Again... and again... WOW... Kim gets replaced by exact replicas a lot).
Odo also only ended up _so far away_ because he fell into a freak, stable wormhole. He was the furthest their species had ever gone, as far as they knew.
@@Nionivek The most logical explanation should have been aliens trying to manipulate Harry from the start. And yes i know, it was addressed in the episode - but only in the dumbest way possible: "Hey, i tested your DNA again and it turns out i was too stupid the first time". At least they could have given the Doctor a hint that leads him to use a different way of testing. Like hospitals don't run all possible blood tests for every patient, but if they suspect something like a toxin that cannot be found by standard tests they will investigate further. The chances of Harry ever returning to his real home planet were so small that nobody could ever believe this story.
@@physeter_de595 It was established in "The Search" that Odo was drawn to the Omarion Nebula after he saw a picture of it, because he and the other "babies" were programmed this way. So there is that too.
though as he points out, the poor guy didn't get any before becoming jerky. that's a good fuckin point. this is Voyager, they wouldn't have blinked a single eye to put in a naked guy with just something in the way.
Every time I start to slooooowly put on my rose colored glasses, Chuck comes along and slaps them off my face. :P I still enjoy watching Voyager, but it's nice to have someone there who cares enough to remind me not to start putting it up on a pedestal. ;) And he does it with humor, which helps take the sting out of it, too. :)
You gotta feel for Harry Kim (and Garrett Wang) the writers just kept dumping crap situation after crap situation on him. In contrast Deep Space Nine had the “O’Brien must suffer” episodes but those hit differently because Miles O’Brien in-universe was a character with an accomplished career, a loving family, and was respected by his peers. So when bad things happen to him you felt for him because he really didn’t deserve it Harry Kim on the other hand was still being treated as some fresh faced, new meat, ensign even in Voyager’s seven season. So when something bad happens to him it’s just another in a long string of failure and disappointment. Poor, dumb, Harry…
As SF-Debris had pointed out in a previous outing, Nog went from a waiter to a luitenant junior grade. Meaning Harry has to call the same guy who brought him drinks "sir" now.
@@johnroscoe2406: His name is spelled Wang, but, apparently, pronounced Wong, even though it wouldn't be, with Chinese naming conventions. Honestly, I think he just insisted on changing the pronunciation for somewhat obvious reasons.
Saw your recent tweet and have to say, take the time you need. You are probably one of the most like minded people I've found to myself, so I know how hard it is to break programming and tell others they'll have to wait for you to rest. Hell it's hard to tell yourself those projects can wait. Bit it has to happen. Fix your chimney problem, take some downtime, and if you have to work, aim for the easiest things to reupload, or the funnest projects to do. Thank you for the years of entertainment. You've taught me quite a bit and gave me a laugh when I've needed it most.
It's also ridiculous that, in order to maintain their population, millions of alien men must be on the planet, at the very same time, being harvested for their DNA. There should be millions of ships orbiting the planet. But Star Trek has never been realistic about ship traffic. They have the "only ship in range trope", which is ok on the frontier, but not near important planets like Earth, Vulcan, Romulus, and Quonos.
I have a vivid childhood memory of coming out of my room after being sent to bed and my dad was watching this episode of Voyager. Specifically the scene where they are all circling Harry getting ready to beat him with poles. It is one of my most distinct memories from childhood. XD I was always confused as to how Harry could be an alien from here born on Earth when this planet was 60+ years away from Earth at maximum warp. Ya think there'd be closer options...
My vivid childhood memory pertaining to this episode is just the scene where they look at some scribbles on the wall and briefly talk about language, because I’m gay.
Yeah thats why the VOY-crew should have never believed this story for one second, even with the Doctor saying that his tests don't disprove it. Would have made more sense if Harry is just manipulated to the point where he escapes from the ship because he thinks his friends want to keep him from going to his real family ...
Ugh this episode, lousy in a number of ways; the continuing shame of Poor Dumb Harry, part of that plot to remove Harry from the show and backtracking because of a magazine, a rather lame planet of the week, and even lamer aliens that shows how the Delta Quadrant really is no different from the rest of the galaxy.
Perhaps the Borg assimilated the Tareshians..... that's why the Borg Queen, at one point later in the series, looked at Harry and said: _"We'll see you soon, Harry."_
Garrett Wang was named one of People Magazine's 50 Most Beautiful People in the World in 1997. The Voyager writers were planning on killing his character off. This is why Harry became the O'Brien of Voyger: only bad things can happen to him.
One of the first I saw (Innocence, Rise, Twisted, and Future's End were the others) that somehow made me start watching the show, so I still have a soft spot for it.
@@MrSaywutnow I think "A Night in Sickbay" had the highest ratings of any ENT episode if i remember correctly. So there are a lot of people who only watched that trainwreck ... just depressing.
@@lordmontymord8701 Indeed it did. The episode was heavily promoted in an attempt to boost viewership. Record numbers of people tuned in, and then record numbers of people tuned out. The only silver lining is that the absolute disaster of "A Night in Sickbay" ultimately gave us the Xindi arc.
This always felt like some 1960's B-movie plot. Heck, it feels like something the crew of the original show would have dealt with. Only there Spock would have pointed out the ridiculousness of trying to harvest men from other planets and then Kirk would discover the REAL evil plot.
Or Kirk would just get upset at how easy the women are. Seduction is supposed to be HARD. What's it worth if there's no struggle? And yes, they would word it that way.
It exists, Its called 'The Lorelei Signal', episode 4 of the Animated Series, where in the beautiful siren's are basically energy vampires, kirk and spock almost drown in an Urn and Uhura and Chapel save the day.
@@YourCapyFrenBigly_3DPipes1999 There it would have at least made sense in season 1 or 2 because they reused scripts written for "Phase 2", the never made follow-up to TOS.
@@lordmontymord8701 oh see I never knew that. Lol. Well that makes sense. S1-2 were goofy as hell but awesomely wacky (or bad lol), but there were some real good ones in there too. Even that early on the curse of Berman was in full force. I like every episode in its own way, but some needed a far longer spotlight. Conspiracy for instance. That one could have been an amazing plotline if built over several episodes or allowed to develop as a background seasonal arc. God I can't believe people just rolled over for that idiot without reservation. Well until DS9 that is. It'll always amaze me people just put up with his mandates and gave in without a fight. Why protect stupidity and illogic? If he can't be made to see the light then he needs to go. I would never work under those terms. Creatives have to stand up for themselves. It's their magic we're here to see. If a producer doesn't want to support that and insists on getting in the way of that then they need to hit the road. Even VOY could have been a quality production if they had refused to bow to Berman's or Taylor's nonsense. I understand there are always logistical restraints in TV mainly due to budget - fair enough. But no self-respecting creative writer should take diktats about basic content and depth from an asshat producer - a story that doesn't develop, refuses basic connectivity, stays artificially truncated, or takes artificial detours is worthless and/or sucks BAD. It's sad the VOY writers were too weak to demand better and those early TNG writers refused to serialize even tho they still produced fine episodic entertainment. What a waste. I /love/ telling people to go fuck themselves 😃. Too bad I wasn't a staff writer in 80s or 90s sci-fi. I certainly would have had the opportunity.
I wonder if they just watched the other star trucks and were like 'wow what great ensemble casts! I assume there was no work involved in that, it just happened! because planning is not something that's really in my lexicon' .. because i've certainly had thoughts like that and it led to me never planning anything out and my writing being awfulsauce
The attacking aliens don't tell ships what the fudge is going on from the get go. "Outsiders, this planet is full of lying crazy women who kill males." They rival the a-hole aliens from DRAGON'S TEETH, whose actions lead to Voyager awakening the Vaad'Waur. Deborah May, the actress who played Haneek in the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine second season episode "Sanctuary", played Lyris in this episode. She double downed on annoying bitches in awful episodes.
It's amazing how many TV plots would be ruined if people just ... communicated. Then again in my experience, it doesn't matter if a single statement would fix or clarify everything, when you're talking to someone who just isn't listening and is blindly hyperfocused on one outcome, it won't work. they won't figure it out until days later if ever, or their narcissism will make them forget you ever said it.
At least the aliens from Dragon's Teeth didn't know there were still Vaadwaur around that could be awakened. They just wanted to protect their subspace-corridors. Here there should be beacons around the Taresian space telling everybody why they shouldn't go any further - and restrain any crewmember that thinks he's a Taresian ...
If Harry WAS dumb, his character might actually have been interesting. But he was a smart, capable officer... who Janeway mysteriously decided to take a big smelly crap on.
It will never cease to amaze me how hard the writers dropped the ball with Harry Kim's character. He was a nearly blank slate; you could've done literally anything with his character. He could've been the best character on the show, barring a sudden upset by a chesty blonde in a catsuit. It's sad to see all the missed opportunities for his character to really become anything interesting.
GW wasn't the best actor but he really wasn't given anything to work with (save for Chute and Alien Love girl). Makes me wonder why they killed off all those juicy cool looking characters in the premiere and kept him if all he was going to be was wallpaper for 7 years
@@YourCapyFrenBigly_3DPipes1999 Because the powers that be at Voyager didn't even understand that an ensign is supposed to make lieutenant. Competent showrunning was plainly asking too much.
@@oddish4352 ah yes the Berman & Taylor effect. Together one is bad enough but put those two jackasses together and you get a synergistic confluence of stupidity no mere mortal, not even a crazy Janeway, could overcome. It's the Omega force of hollywood. I'm sure others suffer from it too, but these two set the bar. Imagine NOT wanting your story to grow and develop. That's like hiring someone to build you a house but forcing them to stop after the foundation and doorway. Logic. Poor goddamn series was damned before it began.
@@YourCapyFrenBigly_3DPipes1999 Amazingly, not so. By some great scripts, a stellar cast with amazing chemistry, and the power of the Trek brand, it managed to hold its own despite Berman's best efforts to run it into the ground. Like a horse with a broken leg but iron determination, it stayed the course and went out on its own terms... but imagine what it could have done without the broken leg!
@@oddish4352 I don't have as rosy opinion as you since all the writers capitulated to Berman from day 1, which earned my ire and resigned contempt (all this is new for me btw, I only watched VOY and DS9 last year and a little in '21 for the first time, just never occured to me give it a serious go before- this despite being a lifelong closet tng Trekker) but it had a few standouts along the way along all the undeveloped mass of smoking clunkers and enforced warmed-over mass of frustrating simplistic superficialities. Don't get me started on Endgame tho. I'll never stop ripping it to shreds and that has nothing to do with the cast themselves.
He must be redoing episodes he did before, using the more static format. Because I'm sure he covered this episode before. I've never seen the real episode, yet I recognize images from it.
I still wish they had stuck with the original plan. It would have been bonkers and it would have given Harry SOMETHING. It is a running joke of "Poor Dumb Harry", and while it is funny, it is also sad. The actor isn't terrible, but the writing gave him so little.
If I was to do a ritual to summon Lord Janeway, what would I have to sacrifice? I'm guessing I would have to go to an alternate timeline so that I can sacrifice my -1st born somehow.
Harry was given an instinct to hate the Nassari, that's why he fired on them. Behavior can be coded into DNA. This could have been a great episode, and I think they should have made it real. Harry should have been an alien. The premise was sound. Although, I would have said the aliens used wormholes to travel great distances and encoded the wormhole locations into Harry's memories so that he could return some day. This would have created some drama with Harry possibly holding the secret to getting Voyager home but after learning the evil nature of his alien people and fighting against them, Harry now has no way of accessing those memories. Harry could have developed some cool alien powers too. The new Harry is an alien storyline could have given him so much more depth in later episodes.
I remember when I was first watching Voyager, I initially thought of Harry as the nerd that everybody points at and laughs. It was only through Chuck that I noticed the undertones of repressed sexual weirdness. So now I look at Harry and think "Dude, WTF?"
@@lordmontymord8701 I'd say that Kim is a bigger nerd than Reg Barclay. Hell, Barclay experienced more character development as an occasional guest star than Kim did in seven years as a main cast member. It's quite sad, really.
I am incredibly triggered that they put attractive women in this episode, and that they even had slight physical contact with a male. Thank god there are no attractive women like that on the new shows.
Er, being jumped by Patricia Tallman is a BAD thing? Didn't she previously appear in several episodes of TNG - initially doing stunt work, later a Romulan? She'll always be Lyta Alexander to us!
There is a pretty easy explanation following the Berman/Braga school of evolution: Nature wanted this species to die out, like the one in ENTs "Dear Doctor". Plus the Delta Quadrant seems to have some "interesting" methods of procreation anyway - just ask the Ocampa with their six-day mating bond ...
@@YourCapyFrenBigly_3DPipes1999 But considering that the decision by the showrunners not to even promote the guy was clearly intended to humiliate him and the guy playing him... Harry Kim abuse just smacks of giving the bully what they want.
And then they used this sort of plot to explain Sisko in DS9, only they were serious about the whole using a woman against her will to carry a child thing.
Don't let this distract you from the fact that the original Harry Kim is dead and for the rest of the series, we've been following his clone. What? You completely forgot about that? So did the writers.
oy, have things gotten so bad there's no other host options but the choob? also there is no way any male is so old yet still alive that he's going to think there's anything strange about a bunch of women 'not giving a man personal space'... hmm then again he went way outta left field to take a crack at heteronormativity in a review of a 90s tv show. consider this eyebrow raised.
So, something I noticed from this episode. The Taresians (falsely) claims that they implant embryo's into other races to have children that incorporate alien DNA, and the other race is called the Nasari. Was someone on the development team from Mass Effect inspired by this episode? Cause it reminds me just a tad about a certain blue-skinned mono-gendered alien species.
I can't even decide which is more impressive, rewriting someone with a retrovirus in a way that they (and their advanced medical providers) never notice, or the cover story of being able to implant embryos in faraway aliens they've never met or studied.
That would indicate anyone remembered this episode - or anything else from it than Harry getting hit with phallic objects by a bunch of beautiful women. No, the chances are low. Maybe the Mass Effect writers were inspired by another piece of Sci Fi for the Asari, but i'm pretty sure it's not this masterpiece. Plus the Asari don't inherit DNA from their fathers (or other mothers), only from their Asari birthmother.
For me this is the worst Voyager episode (yes even worse than Threshold, Tuvix or the Fight). It's especially frustrating that Harry Kim deserved a lot more for characterization and what's here is downright awful. I'd rather in addition to Threshold this no longer exist in Canon. :(
One thing I'll give this episode, on this planet of space succubi Harry actually manages to outsmart 2 of them with sex play. Worst. Succubi. Ever.
My personal theory is that their genetic tinkering is usually supposed to render them helplessly "wanting"... But Harry is too much of a loser, and too big into his Bromance, to have that affect him.
.
It is like seeing a man challenge you to a race after you shattered his kneecaps... Only to find out he can run with his arms A-ok.
@@Nionivek 🤣 only problem is that all they want is to procreate - which doesn't seem to work through normal "sexual intercourse".
So them being interested in Harrys little distraction is more like a kid playing with it's food ...
I just can't see why the writers had so much trouble with Harry. He's the rookie. That's unlimited potential there. Make him the black-ops commando, the hacker, or the peace ambassador who brokers deals. Instead the show just keeps him as the rookie throughout all seven seasons. How could they drop the ball that bad?
There's an easy character development of Harry as the initially fresh faced graduate from the academy gradually becoming harder and more jaded as the show goes on, especially given what he's gone through. Essentially while Paris moves away from his initial rebelliousness and Seven gradually thawing to Starfleet's ways, you'd have Kim as the counterpart, growing more cynical and doubtful about the very same.
Its nothing groundbreaking but it gives the potential for conflict and a sense that the events that have happened over the course the series actually matter.
@@MerelyAFan _"... it gives the potential for conflict and a sense that the events that have happened over the course the series actually matter."_
And that's exactly why it could not be allowed to happen.
@@MerelyAFan I think that was the goal at first. Harry represents idealistic Starfleet on a show where it would be tested between times Janeway didn't live up to ideals, and Maquis views of the world and how the Federation isn't helping. It's set up early between the fast friendship with Tom, and being captured with B'leanna, the Maquis most associated with jaded cynicism.
As the Maquis plots dropped, so did that angle, and since you can't be the rookie for years, they lost any idea of what to do with him beyond these bad "bad romance" plots.
@@MerelyAFan Episodic storytelling above all. No character growth. Reset button. Even Seven's growth was slow and repetitive, dealing with the same issues.
If you can't make him any of that, just make him a lieutenant!
The actor who played Neelix also appeared in Better Call Saul as the judge who presides over Huell's case.
The backstory the aliens claim Harry has is kind of the same as Odo's.
Except Odo's species is immortal and likes playing the long game, so it does not matter if it takes a few centuries and he ended up in another quadrant by accident.
Also Odo didn't found his people by chance. His people controlled the entire quadrant and surely would have been notified, if some shape shifter would show up anywhere.
Plus Odo was part of a unknown race before then AND it wasn't like he was found on earth. the SHEER number of hoops required to make Kim an alien without him knowing is crazy. the MOST logical explanation I could come up with is that the real Kim died and was replaced by a doppelganger (Again... and again... WOW... Kim gets replaced by exact replicas a lot).
Odo also only ended up _so far away_ because he fell into a freak, stable wormhole. He was the furthest their species had ever gone, as far as they knew.
@@Nionivek The most logical explanation should have been aliens trying to manipulate Harry from the start. And yes i know, it was addressed in the episode - but only in the dumbest way possible: "Hey, i tested your DNA again and it turns out i was too stupid the first time".
At least they could have given the Doctor a hint that leads him to use a different way of testing. Like hospitals don't run all possible blood tests for every patient, but if they suspect something like a toxin that cannot be found by standard tests they will investigate further.
The chances of Harry ever returning to his real home planet were so small that nobody could ever believe this story.
@@physeter_de595 It was established in "The Search" that Odo was drawn to the Omarion Nebula after he saw a picture of it, because he and the other "babies" were programmed this way. So there is that too.
Since I watched "Futurama" before I ever watched this series, when I came to this episode, I could only think of it as "The Death by Snu-Snu Episode".
Then the women with the large sticks. Then the women with the petite sticks. Then the large sticks again.
though as he points out, the poor guy didn't get any before becoming jerky. that's a good fuckin point. this is Voyager, they wouldn't have blinked a single eye to put in a naked guy with just something in the way.
My favourite description of this episode is Harry visits Castle Anthrax
Except Castle Anthrax had no ulterior motive.
Every time I start to slooooowly put on my rose colored glasses, Chuck comes along and slaps them off my face. :P I still enjoy watching Voyager, but it's nice to have someone there who cares enough to remind me not to start putting it up on a pedestal. ;) And he does it with humor, which helps take the sting out of it, too. :)
You gotta feel for Harry Kim (and Garrett Wang) the writers just kept dumping crap situation after crap situation on him.
In contrast Deep Space Nine had the “O’Brien must suffer” episodes but those hit differently because Miles O’Brien in-universe was a character with an accomplished career, a loving family, and was respected by his peers. So when bad things happen to him you felt for him because he really didn’t deserve it
Harry Kim on the other hand was still being treated as some fresh faced, new meat, ensign even in Voyager’s seven season. So when something bad happens to him it’s just another in a long string of failure and disappointment.
Poor, dumb, Harry…
As SF-Debris had pointed out in a previous outing, Nog went from a waiter to a luitenant junior grade.
Meaning Harry has to call the same guy who brought him drinks "sir" now.
lol it's "Wong" not "Wang" but I have to confess I now prefer "Garrett Wang."
O'Brien - Unlucky in life.
Data - Unlucky in career.
Worf - Unlucky in love.
Harry - All three.
@@johnroscoe2406: His name is spelled Wang, but, apparently, pronounced Wong, even though it wouldn't be, with Chinese naming conventions.
Honestly, I think he just insisted on changing the pronunciation for somewhat obvious reasons.
Saw your recent tweet and have to say, take the time you need. You are probably one of the most like minded people I've found to myself, so I know how hard it is to break programming and tell others they'll have to wait for you to rest. Hell it's hard to tell yourself those projects can wait. Bit it has to happen. Fix your chimney problem, take some downtime, and if you have to work, aim for the easiest things to reupload, or the funnest projects to do.
Thank you for the years of entertainment. You've taught me quite a bit and gave me a laugh when I've needed it most.
It's also ridiculous that, in order to maintain their population, millions of alien men must be on the planet, at the very same time, being harvested for their DNA. There should be millions of ships orbiting the planet. But Star Trek has never been realistic about ship traffic. They have the "only ship in range trope", which is ok on the frontier, but not near important planets like Earth, Vulcan, Romulus, and Quonos.
All the other ships were on the other side of the planet ... Voyager just couldn't see them 😉
There was one episode where Tom had to take space drivers ed because he violated space traffic laws. Almost good I think
I cant get over Neelix making the exact same sound as Shepards Space Hamster in ME2 when doting on Harry.
Tonight on "We have no idea what to do with Harry Kim"....
I have a vivid childhood memory of coming out of my room after being sent to bed and my dad was watching this episode of Voyager.
Specifically the scene where they are all circling Harry getting ready to beat him with poles. It is one of my most distinct memories from childhood. XD
I was always confused as to how Harry could be an alien from here born on Earth when this planet was 60+ years away from Earth at maximum warp. Ya think there'd be closer options...
My vivid childhood memory pertaining to this episode is just the scene where they look at some scribbles on the wall and briefly talk about language, because I’m gay.
@@WDC_OSA oh fuck it's sexbad, hope you've been doing okay bro
@@ZaiketsuKumori thank you, I've been alright. I'm drawing a lot and that's about all that's going on for me.
Yeah thats why the VOY-crew should have never believed this story for one second, even with the Doctor saying that his tests don't disprove it. Would have made more sense if Harry is just manipulated to the point where he escapes from the ship because he thinks his friends want to keep him from going to his real family ...
Ugh this episode, lousy in a number of ways; the continuing shame of Poor Dumb Harry, part of that plot to remove Harry from the show and backtracking because of a magazine, a rather lame planet of the week, and even lamer aliens that shows how the Delta Quadrant really is no different from the rest of the galaxy.
This, exactly.
Perhaps the Borg assimilated the Tareshians..... that's why the Borg Queen, at one point later in the series, looked at Harry and said:
_"We'll see you soon, Harry."_
Huh, good call. They never really followed up on that bit, did they.
Voyager is just jam-packed with episodes which seem determined to prove that Star Trek isn't really a _science_ fiction franchise at all.
I get the strong impression UPN was kind of ashamed of science fiction and wanted to push as far from that as possible.
Garrett Wang was named one of People Magazine's 50 Most Beautiful People in the World in 1997. The Voyager writers were planning on killing his character off.
This is why Harry became the O'Brien of Voyger: only bad things can happen to him.
14:00 I've literally seen this episode at least 3 times and I STILL believed you when you said that
First Star Trek episode I ever watched.
A few years later I give the franchise another go.
One of the first I saw (Innocence, Rise, Twisted, and Future's End were the others) that somehow made me start watching the show, so I still have a soft spot for it.
Just think, there are people out there whose first exposure to Trek was "A Night in Sickbay."
@@MrSaywutnow I think "A Night in Sickbay" had the highest ratings of any ENT episode if i remember correctly. So there are a lot of people who only watched that trainwreck ... just depressing.
@@lordmontymord8701 Indeed it did. The episode was heavily promoted in an attempt to boost viewership.
Record numbers of people tuned in, and then record numbers of people tuned out.
The only silver lining is that the absolute disaster of "A Night in Sickbay" ultimately gave us the Xindi arc.
This always felt like some 1960's B-movie plot. Heck, it feels like something the crew of the original show would have dealt with. Only there Spock would have pointed out the ridiculousness of trying to harvest men from other planets and then Kirk would discover the REAL evil plot.
Or Kirk would just get upset at how easy the women are. Seduction is supposed to be HARD. What's it worth if there's no struggle? And yes, they would word it that way.
It exists, Its called 'The Lorelei Signal', episode 4 of the Animated Series, where in the beautiful siren's are basically energy vampires, kirk and spock almost drown in an Urn and Uhura and Chapel save the day.
It definitely shouldn't have made it past 1987 TNG
@@YourCapyFrenBigly_3DPipes1999 There it would have at least made sense in season 1 or 2 because they reused scripts written for "Phase 2", the never made follow-up to TOS.
@@lordmontymord8701 oh see I never knew that. Lol. Well that makes sense. S1-2 were goofy as hell but awesomely wacky (or bad lol), but there were some real good ones in there too. Even that early on the curse of Berman was in full force. I like every episode in its own way, but some needed a far longer spotlight. Conspiracy for instance. That one could have been an amazing plotline if built over several episodes or allowed to develop as a background seasonal arc.
God I can't believe people just rolled over for that idiot without reservation. Well until DS9 that is. It'll always amaze me people just put up with his mandates and gave in without a fight. Why protect stupidity and illogic? If he can't be made to see the light then he needs to go. I would never work under those terms.
Creatives have to stand up for themselves. It's their magic we're here to see. If a producer doesn't want to support that and insists on getting in the way of that then they need to hit the road.
Even VOY could have been a quality production if they had refused to bow to Berman's or Taylor's nonsense.
I understand there are always logistical restraints in TV mainly due to budget - fair enough. But no self-respecting creative writer should take diktats about basic content and depth from an asshat producer - a story that doesn't develop, refuses basic connectivity, stays artificially truncated, or takes artificial detours is worthless and/or sucks BAD.
It's sad the VOY writers were too weak to demand better and those early TNG writers refused to serialize even tho they still produced fine episodic entertainment. What a waste.
I /love/ telling people to go fuck themselves 😃. Too bad I wasn't a staff writer in 80s or 90s sci-fi. I certainly would have had the opportunity.
Oh. Oh GOD.
>running out of terrible Voyager episodes
Are you OK Chuck? It kinda sounds like you had a stroke there.
This is what happen when You do not have a plan for your characters from the start. Thank God Hollywood learn their leason... Right?
I wonder if they just watched the other star trucks and were like 'wow what great ensemble casts! I assume there was no work involved in that, it just happened! because planning is not something that's really in my lexicon'
.. because i've certainly had thoughts like that and it led to me never planning anything out and my writing being awfulsauce
What I get from this is that Harry Kim is a salmon.
The attacking aliens don't tell ships what the fudge is going on from the get go. "Outsiders, this planet is full of lying crazy women who kill males." They rival the a-hole aliens from DRAGON'S TEETH, whose actions lead to Voyager awakening the Vaad'Waur.
Deborah May, the actress who played Haneek in the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine second season episode "Sanctuary", played Lyris in this episode. She double downed on annoying bitches in awful episodes.
It's amazing how many TV plots would be ruined if people just ... communicated.
Then again in my experience, it doesn't matter if a single statement would fix or clarify everything, when you're talking to someone who just isn't listening and is blindly hyperfocused on one outcome, it won't work. they won't figure it out until days later if ever, or their narcissism will make them forget you ever said it.
At least the aliens from Dragon's Teeth didn't know there were still Vaadwaur around that could be awakened. They just wanted to protect their subspace-corridors.
Here there should be beacons around the Taresian space telling everybody why they shouldn't go any further - and restrain any crewmember that thinks he's a Taresian ...
Yeah, this episode just struck me as being really bloody stupid on top of it being another "WTF do we do with Harry" moment.
Okay everyone! Say it with me now! "Poor dumb Harry..."
If Harry WAS dumb, his character might actually have been interesting. But he was a smart, capable officer... who Janeway mysteriously decided to take a big smelly crap on.
It will never cease to amaze me how hard the writers dropped the ball with Harry Kim's character. He was a nearly blank slate; you could've done literally anything with his character. He could've been the best character on the show, barring a sudden upset by a chesty blonde in a catsuit. It's sad to see all the missed opportunities for his character to really become anything interesting.
GW wasn't the best actor but he really wasn't given anything to work with (save for Chute and Alien Love girl). Makes me wonder why they killed off all those juicy cool looking characters in the premiere and kept him if all he was going to be was wallpaper for 7 years
@@YourCapyFrenBigly_3DPipes1999 Because the powers that be at Voyager didn't even understand that an ensign is supposed to make lieutenant. Competent showrunning was plainly asking too much.
@@oddish4352 ah yes the Berman & Taylor effect. Together one is bad enough but put those two jackasses together and you get a synergistic confluence of stupidity no mere mortal, not even a crazy Janeway, could overcome. It's the Omega force of hollywood. I'm sure others suffer from it too, but these two set the bar. Imagine NOT wanting your story to grow and develop. That's like hiring someone to build you a house but forcing them to stop after the foundation and doorway. Logic.
Poor goddamn series was damned before it began.
@@YourCapyFrenBigly_3DPipes1999 Amazingly, not so. By some great scripts, a stellar cast with amazing chemistry, and the power of the Trek brand, it managed to hold its own despite Berman's best efforts to run it into the ground. Like a horse with a broken leg but iron determination, it stayed the course and went out on its own terms... but imagine what it could have done without the broken leg!
@@oddish4352 I don't have as rosy opinion as you since all the writers capitulated to Berman from day 1, which earned my ire and resigned contempt (all this is new for me btw, I only watched VOY and DS9 last year and a little in '21 for the first time, just never occured to me give it a serious go before- this despite being a lifelong closet tng Trekker) but it had a few standouts along the way along all the undeveloped mass of smoking clunkers and enforced warmed-over mass of frustrating simplistic superficialities. Don't get me started on Endgame tho. I'll never stop ripping it to shreds and that has nothing to do with the cast themselves.
I can't wait to listen to Robbie and Garrett talk about this episode on the Delta Flyers...
He must be redoing episodes he did before, using the more static format. Because I'm sure he covered this episode before. I've never seen the real episode, yet I recognize images from it.
Yeah this is a rerelease for UA-cam
I still wish they had stuck with the original plan. It would have been bonkers and it would have given Harry SOMETHING. It is a running joke of "Poor Dumb Harry", and while it is funny, it is also sad. The actor isn't terrible, but the writing gave him so little.
Remember, Garrett Wang was the only cast member refused the opportunity to direct an episode. Rick Berman must have really had it in for him.
@@andrewklang809 I had forgotten that. Yeah, Garrett got shafted there
If this show came out today Harry would be one the best characters in the show a la discovery. I prefer this Harry.
If I was to do a ritual to summon Lord Janeway, what would I have to sacrifice?
I'm guessing I would have to go to an alternate timeline so that I can sacrifice my -1st born somehow.
Coffee. Black.
Sacrifice Harry. Even if it doesn't work its the right thing to do.
Harry was given an instinct to hate the Nassari, that's why he fired on them. Behavior can be coded into DNA.
This could have been a great episode, and I think they should have made it real. Harry should have been an alien. The premise was sound. Although, I would have said the aliens used wormholes to travel great distances and encoded the wormhole locations into Harry's memories so that he could return some day. This would have created some drama with Harry possibly holding the secret to getting Voyager home but after learning the evil nature of his alien people and fighting against them, Harry now has no way of accessing those memories. Harry could have developed some cool alien powers too. The new Harry is an alien storyline could have given him so much more depth in later episodes.
I remember when I was first watching Voyager, I initially thought of Harry as the nerd that everybody points at and laughs.
It was only through Chuck that I noticed the undertones of repressed sexual weirdness.
So now I look at Harry and think "Dude, WTF?"
Harry is as much of a "nerd" as everyone in Starfleet, since everybody knows everything.
@@lordmontymord8701 I'd say that Kim is a bigger nerd than Reg Barclay.
Hell, Barclay experienced more character development as an occasional guest star than Kim did in seven years as a main cast member.
It's quite sad, really.
I am incredibly triggered that they put attractive women in this episode, and that they even had slight physical contact with a male. Thank god there are no attractive women like that on the new shows.
you know........janeway should've eaten harry. it would put the poor bastard out of his misery.
Er, being jumped by Patricia Tallman is a BAD thing? Didn't she previously appear in several episodes of TNG - initially doing stunt work, later a Romulan? She'll always be Lyta Alexander to us!
harry doing the vulcan hello...
Malevolent Mormon Marriages
.... IN SPACE !
So.....before they gained space travel, how did they survive? How did they continually get fresh....er....victims, donors?
There is a pretty easy explanation following the Berman/Braga school of evolution:
Nature wanted this species to die out, like the one in ENTs "Dear Doctor".
Plus the Delta Quadrant seems to have some "interesting" methods of procreation anyway - just ask the Ocampa with their six-day mating bond ...
Only you could continue to berate Harry Kim after he saves Voyager from getting blasted to bits by those aliens (who WERE charging weapons).
It's not just a meaningful personal choice- it's a lifestyle.
@@YourCapyFrenBigly_3DPipes1999 But considering that the decision by the showrunners not to even promote the guy was clearly intended to humiliate him and the guy playing him... Harry Kim abuse just smacks of giving the bully what they want.
And then they used this sort of plot to explain Sisko in DS9, only they were serious about the whole using a woman against her will to carry a child thing.
Don't let this distract you from the fact that the original Harry Kim is dead and for the rest of the series, we've been following his clone.
What? You completely forgot about that? So did the writers.
Is having 3 wives a good thing? Just ask Londo. GREAT MAKER!
Well Centauri women don't kill their baby makers in the first night, so that's the problem 😁
Lucky guy gets to wrestle around with 1990s Patricia Tallman...
“Is space China different from regular China?”
Wow, he died without even getting a handie. Brutal.
For a first time enjoyer of the series I did see some bad writing however I think that the episode was a solid 7/10
Picard had a fish? Is this canon? :p
I remember this episode.
It's garbage.
Hehe are all the women between 16 and 19 and a 1/2? 😉😂 🏰 🐴 🥥
oy, have things gotten so bad there's no other host options but the choob?
also there is no way any male is so old yet still alive that he's going to think there's anything strange about a bunch of women 'not giving a man personal space'...
hmm then again he went way outta left field to take a crack at heteronormativity in a review of a 90s tv show. consider this eyebrow raised.
Harry is a salmon
So, something I noticed from this episode. The Taresians (falsely) claims that they implant embryo's into other races to have children that incorporate alien DNA, and the other race is called the Nasari. Was someone on the development team from Mass Effect inspired by this episode? Cause it reminds me just a tad about a certain blue-skinned mono-gendered alien species.
Huh. That's a possibility, but thankfully the Mass Effect writers did something new and improved the concept, IF that's the case.
I can't even decide which is more impressive, rewriting someone with a retrovirus in a way that they (and their advanced medical providers) never notice, or the cover story of being able to implant embryos in faraway aliens they've never met or studied.
That would indicate anyone remembered this episode - or anything else from it than Harry getting hit with phallic objects by a bunch of beautiful women. No, the chances are low.
Maybe the Mass Effect writers were inspired by another piece of Sci Fi for the Asari, but i'm pretty sure it's not this masterpiece.
Plus the Asari don't inherit DNA from their fathers (or other mothers), only from their Asari birthmother.
Voyager is my third favourite Star Trek… after Enterprise and DS9… but some of the episodes were just bad!
For me this is the worst Voyager episode (yes even worse than Threshold, Tuvix or the Fight). It's especially frustrating that Harry Kim deserved a lot more for characterization and what's here is downright awful. I'd rather in addition to Threshold this no longer exist in Canon. :(
As soon as you brought up "Castle Anthrax", I laughed. If only they went that direction (true comedy) that would buoy this episode so much. :)
1:41 A c*ndom burst ?
Conduit, get yer head out the gutter, its getting crowded down here!
@@TBone-bz9mp A - ha - ha !
Yet another episode of the hack Voyager writers making Garrett Wang's acting chops go to waste.
Taresia is flat.
Taresia is banana-shaped! And the government uses sheep bladders to control earthquakes.