Why Are There No Great 25 to 35-Year-Old Footballers?
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- Опубліковано 12 лис 2023
- In Lionel Messi, Karim Benzema, Luka Modrić, and Cristiano Ronaldo, the last four Ballon d'Or winners are all currently over the age of 35, meanwhile the three favourites to win the award in 2024 - Jude Bellingham, Kylian Mbappé, and Erling Haaland - are all under the age of 25.
It begs the question, where are all of the great 25 to 35-year-old footballers?
Well, in this video, HITC Sevens tries to figure that out, taking a look at football's seemingly 'skipped' generation of all time greats, why it happened, and what it might tell us about the future of the football.
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As of right now, I am 25 years old, and I am glad to finally have an explanation why a football career never worked out for me.
I could of been a footballer, took an arrow to the knee and now I'm on guard duty
@@jaitheon1793if you know you know 😂
Didn't work hard enough
Thanks for clearing things up
@@stubbzyFIFANiran knee injury?
Harry Kane, Mo Salah, Keven De Bruyne, Thomas Muller etc there's no shortage of decent players in this category
It’s not about decent footballers, though. It’s about the crème de la crème
Antoine Griezmann always gets overlooked smh
With all due respect to all players mentioned here, none of them will be considered to be the best player ever, not now, not in 20/30/40 whatever years.
@@futkingdse7463 So? 99,999999999999...% of players will never be considered to be the best player ever.
Does that mean that apart from Pelé, Maradona and Messi, there are no great players in the history of football?
Neymar Jr
Messi and Ronaldo are both a gift and a curse to football. On one side, they gave us spectacle never before seen. On the other hand, they made us think that players who can't reach their level are failures.
Ignoring the fact that both had stacked teams to carry them in the era of superclubs lol
@@oladejioriola5672by beign by far the best players in those super teams aswell 🤡
@@oladejioriola5672 Their era was not any more the era of superclubs than today. Much less so, in fact.
@@oladejioriola5672you're saying as if other teams during that era didn't also have stacked teams. Stop talking bs.
@@oladejioriola5672stacked or not they were massive contributors to their teams. both united barca and real would 1000% not reach the same level of consistent success without ronaldo and messi as back bones
Eden Hazard, Bale and Neymar all had comeparetatively short careers while Messi and Ronaldo had very long ones
We talking like Neymar is already retired?
@@tutin4090 He's in a league that's so bad that we can't take it seriously not to mention he's had a serious leg injury.
@@Eibarwomanthere’s a lot of world class players in Saudi league Ronaldo kante Benzema Neymar etc
@@arandomguynamedDylanand they’re all past their best
@@jamanger yes but they are still very good players
A lot of the 25-35 year olds right now would be right up there in other eras. It’s because of this Messi/Ronaldo era and nostalgia bias which contributed to this idea that the current generation of 25-35 year olds isn’t as good as previously or won’t be as good as the next. De Bruyne, Mo Salah and Harry Kane etc. honestly are all timers
I think having the two greatest in the same era has damped football andd has led to high expectations beyond that which is reasonable. There are greats but people are expecting GOATs, the sooner we realise Messi/CR7 were just a blip the happier and more realistic football expectations will become.
Also 1996 was a year Mathias Sammer won the Ballon D’or. The 90s are one of the greatest according to many. Yet Sammer wouldn’t get in the top 10 players these days.
Social media has contributed to discussions revolving players as well. Also because of Messi and Ronaldo, expectations of numbers from attacking players for their goals and assists is way higher. Zidane is an all timer but he never never scored more than 10 league goals in his club career and never scored more than 12 all comps in a club season. If he was held to todays standards people would talk differently. He isn’t the only one. Obviously Zidane is a goat btw
@@siddyfisher1765We just live in a purely stats-driven fanbase. You'd swear everybody was a coach.
Footy has roo many moving parts for stats to be the true contribution indicative of success.
Numbers don't lie, but they're often deceiving.
@@fleezelight I dont think so, because people still appreciated Iniesta, Modric, Suarez, Lewandowski, Xavi, Neuer, Ibrahimovic, and Neymar during the Messi-Ronaldo era of the 2010s. It's not like there weren't era-defining players during their prime, its just all of them except Neymar are also Messi's age or even older
Maybe de Bruyne, the rest do not belong in that conversation
The bias towards offense definitely shows also looking back. Players like Franz Beckenbauer or Lothar Matthäus are universally agreed to be some of the best German footballers ever and definitely above someone like Gerd Müller. Not to speak of goalkeepers. Manuel Neuer is for sure in the conversation of being the greatest goalie of all time.
Buffon lmao
Iker lmao
how can u say iker lmfaoo @@sonicwithglasses131
@@-keiskx1774 i dont want to spell his last name
@@sonicwithglasses131 he's not even close
I think the actual main cause has been the massive tactical revolution of the late 2010s which basically changed the role of every position on the pitch. The number 10 is gone, the role of strikers is completely different, wingers are now the primary goal scorers of many elite teams, full backs are the primary creative force. I think the earliest and most prominent example is shift to ball playing ‘sweeper keepers’ brought about by Manuel Neuer in 2013-2014. It was so brutal for already established goalkeepers that Neuer has basically been the only consistently world class goalkeeper in his age range, everyone slightly older or younger didn’t have time to adapt. It’s only been with the emergence of the keepers who are 5 or more years younger than Neuer, who saw what he was doing as teenagers and were able to adopt it that we now have another crop of world class keepers all around the 27-31 years old mark (Allison, Courtois, Ederson, Oblak, Ter Stegen Maignan).
Just had a look at a list of ‘top 100 players’ made in 2015 to scan through all the players who were under 23 (8 years on you would expect these players to either be in or be just past their peak) and the majority of the players mentioned either 1. Have had serious injury issues or 2. Have at one point in their career had questions surrounding them about ‘where’s the best place to play them’. The list is Neymar, Pogba, James Rodriguez, Kane, Alaba, Veratti, Coutinho, Varane, Sterling, Martial, Salah, Koke, Gotze, Icardi and Isco. These were the players who 8 years ago people thought would be dominating right now and you can really only argue 3 of them are (Kane, Alaba and Salah).
As an old timer myself, I appreciate your interesting hypothesis
Yep. My hypothesis is that the art of football has vanished. It’s become more mechanical and stat oriented instead of present and fluid. There’s less art now. More of a risk-aversion approach to the sport as the big money investors need their investment to make them a return via winning trophies/doing well in the league. It’s more of a business now rather than the “beautiful game” it once was.
Many industries are going this way.
@@harveyholmes9533to add onto that list: Dele Alli, Gareth Bale, Asensio, Sané, Jovic, Reece James, Sancho, Gabriel Jesus, Jovetic
Bellingham being ONE MONTH OLD when we signed Ronaldo the first time is criminal levels of insane 😭😭
The best player in the world debates have nearly always been about attacking players. The game has been in a constant state of flux from the 2010s to the '20s. All of those kids that grew up as 2-man strikers, touchline wingers and traditional 10s who were born after 1993 had to spend the first half of their professional careers changing their game to survive at the highest level. We've seen wingers turn into wingbacks & fullbacks, 2-man strikers spend their entire careers learning holdup play, and traditional 10s used as registas, wide forwards, and inverted fullbacks. The cohort before them had the advantage of being within a few years of their primes, meaning that managers were more likely to make a system around them and less likely to shoehorn them into new positions. It was left for the younger attacking players to exist and thrive in a world that didnt have the positions they grew up with.
In another sense, imagine spending all of primary & secondary school learning one trade, just to find out it doesnt exist when you finally graduate. You'd likely spend the next few years learning how to get on in life before you were able to settle down and thrive. Meanwhile, the highschoolers who graduated behind you spent their entire childhood learning what took you until 25 to figure out. Yeah, they would overshadow you too. Combine that with going pro under the twin-shadow of Messi & Ronaldo, and its no wonder there's a lost generation. There are also arguments to be made about the younger cohort growing up with messi & ronaldo since babies, which normalized their standards + older cohort extending their careers to ages never before seen as a generation, increased emphasis on physical attributes, etc, etc.
TL;DR: that generation of attacking players grew up learning positions that didnt exist when they went pro. They likely spent the first half of their careers re-learning new positions & their nuances before being able to truly thrive. Most never did.
I think one of the reasons is the fact that football has changed a lot during the careers of Messi and Ronaldo. For those players a few years younger than them, expectations kept changing as the game evolved, whereas Messi and Ronaldo played in systems curated for them. The new generation of stars has been raised on the style of football we see today, so it makes sense that they are better suited than what's essentially the last of the old guard
I can consider Hazard, Neymar Salah and Kroos as the best generational talent in mid 2010s. It's just that the influence of Messi and Ronaldo are both too great for them to compete. I think what you tried to ask is where is someone born in 1993 to 1997 that bangs on the football stage.
KDB?
He covers that in the video
Robben, Ribery?
@@lisaruhm6681 2005-2015
In between generations like Messi and Ronaldo
All this does is prove just how especially talented Lionel Messi and Christiano Ronaldo have been ans we are truly lucky to have seen them play during the prime of their careers
Don’t try to put them on the same pedestal, Messi is so clear.
@@prometheustv6558 shut uppppppppppp
@@prometheustv6558Messi is clear but can we not appreciate both of them for a long hard rivalry throughout their careers to reach the GOAT status? I know one triumphed over the other in the end but to watch both of these players make insane conparisons to one another in their prime is something we will never see ever again. We are very lucky to have both of them in the beautiful game.
@@daikikazumareal there shouldn’t have been a comparison
@@prometheustv6558 What do you mean? Messi and Ronaldo both had legitimate arguments to being the greatest up until a certain point in their careers where Messi elevated further. Despite my stance on who did it better. Can we not appreciate both of them? I thought Ronaldo was breathtaking as he has qualities that Messi simply didn't match. They are both icons.
I think the problem is more the years 1994-1997. From 1990-1993, you have many great,great players like Salah, Kane, de Bruyne,Kroos, Neymar,Griezmann,van Dijk
Yes, I agree. There are so many great footballers born between 1988-1994. The real problem is that there has been a lost generation of attacking players born between 1995-1997. Some examples include Rashford, Gabriel Jesus, Timo Werner, Anthony Martial, Dele Alli, Marco Asensio etc.
so is hazard and dybala playing a different sport?
@@name-zq1si hazards retired mate AHAH
@@tudortoca3068 LMAOO thats not the point of the argument is it smart one
@@tudortoca3068hazard just retired however his career overall shows he was very consistent from 25-28 until moving to madrid sort of like kaka
The 30-35 yr old age group is full of great players. The real problem is that the 25-29 yr old age group is full of players who have not reached their full potential. For example, Renato Sanches and Anthony Martial are former golden boy winners, but are nowhere near amongst the best players in the world. Other examples include: Alen Halilovic, Dele Alli and Max Meyer. This becomes clearer with players who could have been great number 9s such as: Rashford, Gabriel Jesus, André Silva, Luka Jovic and Timo Werner. I honestly think that this is the main reason why there is a shortage of great number 9s currently.
100% agree with this, there was clearly a generation of underachieving youngsters as you listed above. Course players like Rodri in that age group have no risen to the fore, but nothing elite from teen years. The likes of Haaland, Mbappe, even Trent, Saka, Foden, Jude have all put a stop to that trend, if they keep going.
I wonder if the rise of social media could have had something to do with it too. Everyone gets hyped up more easily nowadays, and you need even more mental strength than before to rise to the very top. I feel like for many youngsters, it just takes its toll.
May very well be the case, as you say that 2014-2018 period was when sm really kicked on, personally think they're better educated to avoid it now, but there was definetely something that blocked Rashford/Alli/Werner making it. I also think the gap coincides with the great manager's teams, for example between 2014 and 2018 Jurgen and Pep were almost in transition themselves, where they didn't really develop elite youngsters, therefore the youngsters who did emerge didn't have the same elite guidance that has managed to avoid Foden and Trent to turn into bigger disappointments like Rashford and Alli . @@maciejbala477
man said Rashford
The only reason players like Suarez aren’t era defining is because of Messi and Ronaldo. Put Suarez in most other generations and he would be top 2 easily. He should have won the ballon dor in 2016 when he out scored both Messi and Ronaldo with 59 goals and 24 assists in 53 games a goal tally that hasn’t since been replicated.
This supports the video though. I think people view players like Suarez and Iniesta as era-defining, but all of them are also over 35. Suarez is 36, many of the other legends of the 2010s (Iniesta, Modric, Xavi, Lewandowski, Neuer, Ibra) are all the same age as Messi or older
@@za5528 yea I made this comment when looking at his list of when players were born and I thought players like Suarez would have been considered to be in that category if it wasn’t for Ronaldo or Messi but I get the point of the rest of the video however I will say it’s more like players between 25-30 rather then 25-35
Weird. Suarez came 4th that year, and had twice as much points to even rival Griezmann for 3rd on the list.
Yup. Suarez IS that good...
i think a big factor is anticipation. the likes of Bellingam, Haaland, Gavi or Musiala are judged not only by their current ability, but also for the potential they have to improve until they hit the 26-28 yr old bracket. Meanwhile for players of that age or above we only judge their current ability and achievements since they are at their peak.
the likes of Kimmich, Rodri, Bernardo Silva are undoubtedly more complete and currently better players than anyone below the age of 25 with the exception of Mbappe, but because those players have room to improve and will probably become even better we feel like they are superior now
Its definitely the goal stats I saw kdbs 2019/20 chance creation stats and i was blown away he had the most chances created from open play in history for a season yet no one talks about it
in all honesty, it's probably the best individual season in pl history, maybe tied with suarez 13/14
De Bruyne might be the biggest victim of nostalgia bias in football history. He will have to retire before people realise how stupidly good of footballer he actually is.
@@prowsy8825 tell me in one year where he was the most at chances creation at UCL
Ozil has most 39 since 2009
Xavi and tadic with is 2nd with 37
Messi 36 In 14/15
Ribery and Xavi 34 in 11/12 and 12/13 season respectively
Even Alves has 31 and kdb never crosses 30 in ucl
He’s been awarded for it
Disagree with the entire hypothesis, but if I do humour it... This age bracket also spent their formative years just before or during the transition of the striker, the 10 and winger roles
Coincidentally these positions are also what people will associate with "best in the world" labels
Sorry but I don't understand what you're saying? Put it in simple terms for my smooth brain, what do you mean by "transition of Striker, Number 10 and winger"
@@Zaghzackio line-hugging wingers changed into either wingbacks/attacking full-backs or inverted wingers, 10s changed into inverted wingers, forwards (false 9), or 8s, and strikers changed from being more one-dimensional to have to be useful to the team in as many ways as possible, not just scoring goals, or winning headers. Now they're expected to be fast, tall, strong, clinical, good off the ball, and good in build-up and setting up others. Meaning that basically every attacking role has undergone a transition of some sort. e.g. in another era, top teams would still queue up to sign CR7 from Man Utd, but nowadays, all he offers is goals, so he isn't enough for a modern striker at the top level anymore.
You mean thesis, not hypothesis
Can’t you argue that a player like Mbappe wouldn’t be looked at as good if he was born same time as Harry Kane because he’d be facing Messi and Ronaldo when they were even better?
That was Lewandoski for a few years as the worlds third best striker/player. But I agree somewhat with your angle, I just feel Mbappe would get a boost winning world cups etc.
Kane, Salah and De Bruyne are all in that age range. They are all 30 to 32.
But as someone from this age range as well (I’m 27), when I was young watching football it was 2 man strikers, touchline midfield wingers, traditional full backs, and traditional 8 box to box players.
I grew up watching box to box players taking long range shots (Gerrard), I grew up watching touchline wingers putting in crosses for the target man (players like Jermain Pennant, Aaron Lennon and Shaun Wright Phillips all come to mind), and I grew up watching target man strikers (Crouch and Rooney come to mind).
That’s the football I grew up on watching as a kid.
All this false 9, Tiki Taka, high press/gegenpress and all that style of football we’ve been seeing the last 10 years is something I didn’t grow up on as a kid, but it’s something that I’ve grown to see as a young adult.
So I’m thinking footballers in that 26 to 29 age range struggled to get used to the big change in footballing styles when they were in youth academics.
So if I understood right you are saying that your generation got caught up in a transition era which confused them?
This makes so much sense.
The highest level I ever played was National League football
Yet when you move around there are so many different philosophies from some managers wanting a 10, to others playing without one, to different focal points of attack and even now full backs being a major threat. It's hard for anyone to become a specialist in such a transitional period.
Kane is the best of this 25-30 year old group
As top players careers go on longer the notion of a "generation" in the context of "generational talent" stretches out
I truly believe that in alternate timelines, players like Bernardo Silva could have a team built around him and rise to a level similar to Messi. Dude is consistently great
As good as Bernardo is he’s way more comparable to iniesta, which also is far from a diss
the reason pep built the team around messi, but hasnt built the team around silva is because silva is now where near messis level.
silva is one of the worlds best players but he cant lace messi's boots.
so far in silvas 10 year career he has 67 league goals.
messi scores more than that in one season
A lot of clubs could have done that: PSG or Bayern. Even Man City. He’s a ‘link’ player as opposed to a ‘thread’ player like KDB.
He is not close to messi stop it. Still a very good player.
Interestingly you see exactly the same thing in elite level chess. There were no generational players born between 1993-2002.
Theres a few theories as to why, maybe the shadow of Magnus Carlsen born in 1990 arguably the best player of all time, or maybe the lack of motivation because it was the age where computers overtook humans that they were growing up in, no firm answers though, very interesting.
i always think this. football always used to be dominated by grown men. AC Milan team of the early 2000s. untied in the mid 2000s etc.
now it’s a mixture of future prospects and retiring players
I live in Brazil and have always had a liking for youth football (among the highlights, I saw a 15 year old Phillipe Coutinho live at an U-15 South American tournament).
My perception regarding South American talents is that they are being destroyed by going to Europe at 18. England is the worst, Spain is a bit better, but there are 3 main problems:
1- excess focus on strength. I saw an interview of Joao Pedro saying he won 9 kgs of muscle after going to England. He is never dribbling anyone again with the loss of agility that comes with it. Simply but - weight inevitably comes with losing of agility and acceleration. That is important to some players, but can be detrimental to many others. It depends on what their strengths are.
2- risk adverse coaching: positional play is very structured, and risk adverse. By adhering to that at such a young age, you inevitably stifle the development of creative players.
3- recruitment and training in South America is based on value to europe, as this is what generates money and funds the clubs here. So teams focus on atributes that are easier to sell, such as physicality, and you also start “training” them at a young age to be more disciplined.
This focus on strength and structure is excellent to produce very capable footballers, but terrible at nurturing truly exceptional ones.
I agree.
It starts to make more sense with the view that the two primary assets of modern football are physicality and footballing intelligence. You end up with a group of young physically gifted great players and old intelligent great players with a gap in the middle where neither skill set is dominant. The players who were great as youngsters due to their physicality start to wain and the ones who will be great into their 30s aren’t quite there yet. It’s backed up by the exceptions to the trend, the great players who are currently in their late 20s or early 30s are pretty much all players who are intelligent beyond their years more so than they are physical marvels, Kane, Kimmich, Silva, Rodri being the prime examples.
wane
People in these comments keep saying its because they were overshadowed by Messi and Ronaldo dominance but I disagree. Across the 2010s there were a lot of beloved players who were seen as era-defining: Luis Suarez, Iniesta, Xavi, Modric, Lewandowski, Neuer, Ibrahimovic are all names that the footballing public loves and respected in the same way they did legends like Henry or Van Basten and who most football fans would list off as iconic era-defining names. It's just that all of them except Neymar are 35 or older. There are very very good players even besides Neymar aged 25-35 like Griezmann, Kane, Salah, De Bruyne, Kroos, but none of them are arguably as iconic or legendary as names like Henry, Maldini or Kaka in the 2000s and Iniesta, Modric, Suarez in the 2010s
Part of it is nostalgia though and depends on viewpoints. Salah - Can we say best African Player of all time? Kane - If Bayern wins the Champs. Lg. and he wins a Balon D'or and England win a Trophy do we say he's a legend.
Most of these players you’ve mentioned would’ve won a ballon dor by now if messi and ronaldo weren’t there tho. Yes, tbey may not be at the level of great legends but still without messi and Ronaldo setting the standards theese players would seem better than they are
@@siddharthreddiar3353 They are legends but they existed alongside those other names I mentioned and didnt exceed them either -- its not only Messi and Ronaldo that they couldnt exceed, its several players from that generation like Suarez and Iniesta too
@@jcxkzhgco3050 Most of the others who would have won Ballon d'Ors without Messi or Ronaldo are players of their generation, not players who are currently 25-35. If you transported any currently 25-30 player to that year, would they have beaten:
- Iniesta in 2012
- Ribery in 2013
- Neuer or Suarez or Toure in 2014
- Suarez in 2016 (yes I know Griezmann was 3rd that season but Suarez was still being blacklisted from awards then because of the biting, he had 59 goals and 22 assists in 53 games that season)
- Modric in 2018, Lewandowski in 2020 and 2021, Benzema in 2018
Neymar probably gets 2 and Van Dijk gets 2019. Maybe Griezmann gets one for being so amazing internationally for France. But still, even if you take away every Ballon d'Or from Messi and Ronaldo, 10 out of those 13 still go to players currently older than 35. So it wasnt Messi and Ronaldo overshadowing them, it was just the 25-33 year olds being less good than the generation before them
@@za5528suarez and iniesta are both top 50 (at minimum) players so your comparison isn't really telling.
Great vid! Arsene Wegner's quote about getting on the train sums it up perfectly for me... the game today suits athletes better than it does artists. Hope I get used to it
Harry Kane, Salah and many others: Am I a joke to you?!?!
Watch the whole video first lil bro
Hurricane*
Patience blud
I think you failed for Alfie's clickbait
Many others? Can you please name them
Great video Alfie, I know you covered it, but I'd really like to see a focus on the failed gen between 25 and 30 specifically. Between Mbappe and Trent, and Kane and De Bryune, you have Rashford, Alli, Martial, Sanches, Meyer who've all fallen short so far. That could be for another video though.
If Alli had left Tottenham in 2019 for Real or Barca, I think he’d be a star still. Rashford, I need to see him in another team…
I definitely been about this for a while now. Great video and it was very well thought👍🏾
Fascinating subject! Coincidence or not that men's tennis has a very similar situation at the same time, except there are hardly any rising stars (except maybe the recent Carlos Alcaraz but he is not that consistent either).
There are a number of skipped generations, depending on how many years "a generation" is. There's never been anything like the dominance of Federer, then together with Nadal, then joined by Djokovic. The younger players just don't have a chance and haven't had one for 15+ years. Why is that?
Is there a similar pattern in other men's professional sports?
(Yes, Stan Wawrinka and Andy Murray won a few grand slams each while Fed-Nadal-Djok were near their peak, but that's it. Compare any other era of tennis and see how many different winners there were.)
Thanks very much for the video! 🙏
Edit: Clarity
It’s because people are obsessed with stats nowadays, and not who actually plays better.
Damn very interesting video .Covered a bunch of topics that would be considered Too Boring to make a video about , This is why I love this channel . Keep up the amazing work brother
I've been waiting for such a video. Great players are so fre especially due to the point you made about their attributes being layered to be tailor made into a coaches image
There are. They just were always compared to Messi and Ronaldo, which is an unrealistic bar. Comparing Mbappe to Messi and Ronaldo is also a joke. I’d take Kane, Salah, Neymar, de bruyne over Mbappe personally. We were spoilt having Messi and Ronaldo at the same time at rival clubs.
I do think it comes down to messi and ronaldo longevity over shadowing othe players and the new players not coming from the biggest clubs
Cuz the club you play for plays a massive part on how you are perceived
And the amount of quality players is massive to the point were its hard to stand out
Tho with haaland coming very close i think its sparked a new level if drive from the new boys
Also ronaldo fans and theyre obsssesion with goals and stats as a bench mark for a quality player has really taken away the beauty in the simple things and joy of watching football
Brilliant video mate, incredibly interesting topic and your lines of enquiry were spot on.
Truly interesting & innovative topic! Class video bro!
The amount of matches a footballer plays compared to before is also a thing to take into consideration, clubs play their best players almost til they drop and then just change them out.
The game is much more competitive than before, tactics will get you further then having a bunch of stars in a team that doesn't have a great game plan.
It's harder for a singel player to change matches consistently and properly stand out when the general level of the top, midtable and lower teams are much high than before.
Just look at the top 8 in EPL, from Brighton, Newcastle, Man. Utd. and Villa are teams that you just can't leave out of the top 4 anymore. Before the big 4-5 where expected to trash almost every other team lower than themselves.
I'm just saying it's harder for a top level for players to shine for a long time when all things are considered
There is no difference in the number of matches played per year. Domestic championships are the same, cups as well, probably 3-4 more matches in Europe and the usual 5-8 national team appearances. For example in the 80s fighting for all cups, Ian Rush was regularly doing 65 games per season without actually playing in any big tournaments with Wales. The biggest issue is that the biggest clubs are way too rich compared to the rest and the gap is huge. You no longer have mid tear quality teams packed with stars. EPL with all the money and the overinflated transfer prices is just painful without any of the quality being there. Hell, EPL have one of the worst referees in top 20. On top of that we have no touching rules like ballet, not a hard contact sport it used to be and we all played it like one. Disgraceful.
To be honest i think that the switching of the way the game is played is precisely why no players in zhr mentioned generation were able to succeed, whereas Messi and Ronaldo began their careers in an era in which you still could only be a goal machine and nothing else, but as time went on and the game started to change, they were already seen as world class and teams were made around them in spite of their "lackluster abilities in the modern game", but some other players like Quaresma, that would shine if the fame had continued to be played the way it once was, were cut out because the standards have changed and the demands were different. So this transitional period was one in which only the most adaptable footballers could accomplish, well, anything really, because the dynamic was begging to shift in favour of more industrious players. The new generation, though, grew up with the knowledge of the football that is played today and were, henceforth, directed in favour of accomplishing stellar results from a young age. This is my take on it.
Hi Harry. Really interesting video as always. Another point which stuck me, that’s kind of related to your point about players slightly younger than Messi or Ronaldo being overshadowed, but which I think bears its own merits, is around the media & commercial ecosystem that exists around those two. Lots of people, especially large sportswear companies and lower quality journalists & UA-camrs than yourself, make a lot of money from milking the idea of the best footballer(s) in the world, in a way that I don’t think existed to anywhere near the same degree in previous eras and which has essentially grown up around Messi & Ronaldo. Eventually those people are going to have to milk their incomes from a different ‘best’, but that’s going to have to follow a period of transition from one best to the next which will be difficult to navigate and may be less profitable. Given Messi and Ronaldo’s longevity there’s been no incentive for these incredibly influential voices to argue that Neymar/Bale/Griezmann/Hazard/etc are actually the best in the world.
27 is when most players are in their prime
Maybe you can look at other sports for similar patterns? For example tennis, which has had the 3 greats - Federer, Nadal and Djokovic - and nobody from the younger generation dethroning them.
But they are also anomalies in of themselves; King of Clay, Fed’s 2003-2007 period and longevity and Novak surpassing them both in the present.
(If you compare them to Messi and Ronaldo in football)
There are plenty of world class players who are currently aged 25 to 35. But people need to realise that almost all players today are far more fitter, quicker and more athletic now, than they were 15 years ago. Also tactics have advanced during that period as well. Teams are not as open as they used to be and most dont leave big gaps of open space all over the pitch.
Mo Salah and Virgil have something to say in this regard.
Id say these players in that age range of 27-33 were overshadowed by Messi and Ronaldo way too much. -I mean in their best seasons they were doing pretty close numbers to them. But alas they played in their prime, during Ronaldo and Messi’s prime.
"Mbappe, Haaland, bellingham and associates." No, it is mbappe and Haaland, and way below that we have Vini, Pedri, Bellingham, Musiala.
nuh uh bellingham is in mbappe and haaland's echelon this season. i don't see him falling off
I hope the Gen Z generation is similar to the Gen X where we appreciate Footballers and not just have goat debates.
We have no choice but to. Like how it was mentioned in the video, Football is now so tactical and physical that the likelihood of us seeing great technical players like Messi cannot take the game by themselves anymore.
it’s not because most of this generation focuses on stats more than anything
Not only is there a bias towards attacking players, there's definitely a bias towards creativity. In an era of teams being micromanaged tactically, it's no wonder that we don't think of Salah or De Bruyne as being as talented as Cruyff or Zidane despite them having more goals and assists than the pair
They lack flair but are brutally efficient. Salah is scoring no matter what, KDB is cutting through and getting his assist.
Nice that you take on that topic. I’ve noticed that to
Too
I really hope the bigger non-European leagues start holding on to their best talents a little longer. I don’t think the move to Europe at 18 or even younger actually does them good for developing. It’s mental difficult in addition to coming at a physically formative moment.
I wish the oil states would fund the Brasileirao and Primera Division clubs rather than random European clubs or their own leagues. It would level things out a bit more for the betterment of football’s sake.
Video idea: What on earth is going on at Rosenborg? In the 90s the most dominant team in Europe. 13 straight titles, 8 straight UCL qualifications, on their day demolishing teams like Real Madrid and Dortmund. A club so dominant they sacked a coach after three straight league wins (two of them cup doubles) and UEL groups two of the three years. They were miles ahead everyone in Scandinavia. Now they are just a shadow of themselves closer to the relegation zone
Rosenborg most dominant team in Europe ? Demolishing Real Madrid and Dortmund ?
I want what you're smoking !
@@anonymususer1728 Most dominant (or at least one of the very most) in terms of national supremacy. And yes, on their best days, they did not only beat, but tormented Real and Dortmund. As their legendary coach Nils Arne Eggen put it in the press conference: "Ill give them that Real Madrid, they tried."
@@gunders85 Well, national dominance is very different from european dominance.
Regarding the supposed "demolitions" of Real Madrid, your memory might be playing tricks on you. I looked it up on the UEFA site, all the encounters in the UCL between them, and it goes like this:
Season 97/98:
RM - Rosenborg = 4-1
Rosenborg - RM = 2-0
Season 99/00:
RM - Rosenborg = 3-1
Rosenborg - RM = 0-1
Season 05/06:
RM - Roseborg = 4-1
Rosenborg - RM = 0-2
Bottom line: out of 6 games RM won 5, Rosenborg won 1. With a total goal count of 14-5 in favor of RM. (which is, on average, a score of about 3-1 per game)
So how exactly is that "demolishing" and "torturing" Real Madrid ? Cause from where I'm sitting, it's the other way around.
@@anonymususer1728 Has to be the 2-0 win then. Totally outclassed them even though its not reflected in the result. Only on a few magic nights they reach those levels, but they happened
Anyways. I thought the story of the fall of a national giant who went from victories against Real, Milan and Dortmund to losing both their sporting and financial power in a relatively short time span would make for an interesting video
@@anonymususer1728 And of course they would mostly lose to the bigger and better teams, and even the teams below that. But on their best of days, they could outplay anyone
They never had one insane overperforming stint, but their consistency made the Norwegian league rise to a potential two UCL spots through qualy (maybe one of them directly, dont remember) in the early 2000s. Very far off that now
Next video idea: Why is Italy (renowned for it's defensive football) no longer producing world class defenders?
U making this video is why I started watching this channel
Salah doesnt get the respect he deserves.
And i can argue Allison is up there as well.
But i guess young generational talent hype > experienced players
Gee,let me guess what club you support😉🙄
@@smichaelb1980 does that matter?
Salah was brilliant but never quite on Ballon d’Or winning form for long enough.
He's no where near Messi and Ronaldo prime,
He's more saurez level
Messi and Ronaldo played 6-8 years longer than any of their predecessors, like you mentioned. If they had retired in their early 30s I think the likes of Neymar and Hazard would've stepped in for them and probably had more motivation to actually be the best in the world rather than moving to PSG and stopped looking over his physique after moving to Real Madrid.
I renew my petition for you to include international subtitles for your videos. I volunteer for Spanish, but just having them would be great for me and my football loving non-English speaking family
An important overlooked factor is the magnified role of the manager in modern football. The advent of analytics, video footage and large talent markets means that the manager is much more influential than before. Naturally, managers prefer players who will be willing to fit into a system they develop. This does diminish the role of the individual.
I think players get overhyped too much these days but players of the past who had even better stats than Mbappe or Haaland at the same age never got the same recognition.
there are almost no payers with better stats than them at the same age. The broke all records for most goals in UCL in young ages. WC goals is same, Mbappe has 12 by the time he was 23 (almost 24). On the contrary what Haaland and Mbappe have done is only belittled by the immense weight of CR7 and M10 achievements
better stats than Mbappe or Haaland at the same age? give examples lol
There's almost nobody with better stats than Mbappe or Haaland at their age, just very very few like R9 and he was far better than just the numbers and he did get recognition. There were better players but football more than most sports has never really been about stats and only the younger generations seem to not understand that. Many of the GOATs didnt have great numbers. Zidane, Iniesta, Modric, Xavi, Pirlo etc have almost no stats but are clearly better than many players with better numbers. Cruyff and Maradona were unquestionably better than Gerd Muller but have worse numbers. If you look at history's greatest playmakers, many of them don't have big assist numbers. There are some players, esp goalscoring forwards, where the stats reflect their ability like R9 but its not always much correlation
Its not the younger generation that drops players on a whim when their stats are not "up to par". It's the managers who have an average age higher than the oldest players. Who are the pundits driving sensationalistic messages? Who profits off of tiring players with more fixtures? Who set up academies where the youngest and best attributed players were looked after? When Pele played, he was almost always the youngest on the pitch and there was hardly any respect given to the youngsters. So how can you tell me youngsters are stats driven? @@za5528 Say the business side did it, dont blame it senselessly on those who love the game.
Rodri probably is the best player in the world in terms of how much he would improve an average Champions League side if he were to join them. Bruno Fernandes, Leroy Sane and Bernardo Silva have all performed at best-in-the-world levels and van Dijk and Kimmich have been world class for years. That said there does seem to be a bit more world class talent in the 20-25 age group than the 25-30 one.
Rodri is actually quite overrated. He is certainly a product of the talent around him, and would pale in influence and talent playing for almost anyone else.
Bruno fernandes is a poo
Video Idea: The expansion of the World Cup to include 48 teams. Obviously one might expect, that the motivations of FIFA are to have more games and thereby more revenue. However, I think it would be interesting to hear your take on whether the expansion is good or bad for the sport. On the positive side, it gives more countries, especially from Africa and Asia, who would not have had a chance to qualify, an opportunity to see their national team compete on the biggest stage. However, it raises concerns about competitiveness, player fatigue (with extra matches), and may take the excitement out of the qualifiers themselves (For instance 6 (potentially 7) out of the 10 south American teams will qualify).
Great video!
There are plenty of good footballers between ages on 25 and 35. Kane, Militao, De Bruyne, Martinez, Valverde, Rodri, de Jong, Silva, Fernandes, Grealish etc.
There's GOOD footballers but there's nobody on the era-defining level. Even Suarez, Iniesta, Xavi, Modric, Lewandowski, Ibrahimovic, Neuer etc are all 35 or older
Griezmann as well
That's a very good point. I've been watching the highlights of 4 leagues lately - EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, and Serie A. All four are disappointingly similar. There are some terrific exceptions, but the majority of goals are scored in three basic ways. 1) A long incisive pass down the middle where the striker outruns the defenders chasing the ball. 2) A long hoof along the wing where the winger outruns the fullbacks and serves the ball 2-3 metres from the goal line. 3) A long curling ball by a midfielder just outside the corner of the box, into the opposite corner of the goal. Which basically means you need players who can run really fast, and players who can make a little space and curl the ball. That's it, that's the game now.
Even for an obviously world class midfielder, KDB is still underrated.
Watching highlights is all you need to tell me about your ball knowledge
@@BiggestBirdonMars If you're looking to extract a specific point, i.e. how most goals are ultimately scored, then skipping to the most relevant point can be useful.
Sometimes a desire to see the whole context can introduce more noise than signal.
LΛ comσmχόeλnιtο LΛ weεπoιλroγdή chλέoiξηceς. LΛ comσmχόeλnιtο LΛ weεπoιλroγdή chλέoiξηceς ftwimmf.
@@jopearson6321 LΛ comσmχόeλnιtο LΛ weεπoιλroγdή chλέoiξηceς ftwimmf.
great video:)!
Great vid and I can totally see it. Wonder why myself lol
Video on why South Africa isn't as successful in football despite being in a good position to be great. Also a video about the African Football League AKA African Super League would be really appreciated.
And also why South Africans always fail in Europe (except for two players)
South Africa is a shithole and has been in a steady decline for over a decade now...there's your answer.
Football teams develop over decades from regular experience against other opponents with different tactics and styles of play but for most of the 20th century SA football never learnt how to improve from other because it was barred from fifa due to Apartheid. You can’t test your players and learn anything new when you can’t even play anybody (and prevent the racial majority of your country from even playing the sport equally doesn’t help either)
Griezmann, Salah, KDB, Son, and so many others laughing in the corner
Kane
Watch the video perhaps?
Lautaro Martínez
It’s because Messi and Ronaldo dominated their era. Without them, Neymar, salah, de bruyne, bale, hazard would all have a chance to become massive legends
There is a good comparison here with tennis. The big three (Federer, Nadal, Djoko) were all able to stay fit into their mid-thirties and hold off the following generation. The current crop of contenders generally seem to be in their early twenties (Alcaraz, Sinner etc.), effectively skipping a generation.
Personally I think their have been great players. Xavi , Iniesta , Neymar and others but were unlucky to in an area of two phenoms
Xavi, Iniesta, Suarez, Modric, Lewandowski, Neuer, Ibrahimovic, etc are all also 35 or older so they don't count either. I wouldnt say someone like Kane or Kroos is era-defining in the way that those guys were
Kane definitely is he just has the Gerrard thing where he gets knocked for being loyal, if he had moved 3 or 4 years ago and had 5 years of trophies at Bayern or Madrid people 100% would call him that.
@@nathanrushton627 Kane isn’t on that level. Yes his loyalty to Tottenham kept him away from trophies and the spotlight, but even watching his football he never hit Suarez 13-14 levels or even Van Persie 11-12 levels (if the argument is that playing for a non-winning team suppresses people’s memory of how good you were). Furthermore, as a striker you’re obligated to literally deliver goals in important knockout occasions. Kane’s misses in 2018 vs Croatia and 2022 vs France, as well as his poor match vs Italy in 2021, plus his less impressive record with Tottenham in UCL/UEL knockouts are huge knocks on his greatness. He has plenty of seasons to change this legacy and trajectory, but as it stands he doesn’t belong in that class of greatness.
Both Ederson and Allison are generational keepers same with Nuer even if he is a bit older, its almost like the 2 best attacking players have been the same for 2 decades and thats why. If we gave proper credit for defense and that side of the ball then it woupd be completely different. Even bringing up the Rodri argument he is the DM of like all time but yeah he doesn't play in the final 3rd so he must be garbage.
There is a generaational divide in how greatness is defined.
Old School football fans value WORLD CUP PERFORMANCE, BIG GAME PERFORMANCE, TECHNICAL & INDIVIDUAL ABILITY
Modern fans value STATS, LONGEVITY, TROPHIES AND INDIVIDUAL AWARDS WON
This is a really good point. Apart from Messi in Qatar most modern fans don’t seem to care about World Cup performance, for example.
@@hitthurdeauxwhat? Messi has it all,stats wont tell you everything
when you plot the 'generational' players you are forgetting all the great players that did not go to europe that played in the south american leagues during the 20th century. When these players played against their european counterparts in the intercontinental cup they more often than not won that cup.
#thepeopleschannel a video on the Bangladesh premier league and the rise of Bashundhara kings would be good
A team who went into the top flight after promotion and won the last four league titles now!
Are they the next Newcastle? Are they a team to keep a eye on next few years? Thanks Alfie 😊
Nobody bloody cares still
No offense bro but like I doubt he would do it unless there's like something particularly special about bpl I doubt he would do any video
Bangladesh premier league?
its bangladesh league tho its not an achievement to win that hahaha
My favourite team from Bangladesh is FC Streetsh*tters
pre-video prediction, there are but they've lived in the shadow of Messi/Ronaldo.
Our generation really got screwed by the Ronaldo-Messi Rivalry 😭 we’re really in that awkward “in between” spot
Did no one in these comments watch the video?
After looking at more of the comments, if they did, they clearly didn't pay much attention or listen to what he was actually saying.
Just spit-balling, but maybe there's a lost generation born between 1993-1997 say, that just didn't play outside, and were also not benefit to the modern technical coaching that the new generation is.
You've seen the same in Tennis, with Djokovic Federer, Nadal etc. Also in Cricket, with no England players under 30 in recent games.
Antoine Griezmann literally exists
Rodri, Kane, Muller, Kroos, Oblak, list goes on. There are tons of great 25 - 35 year olds.
He didn't mention it like that
As a 36 year old myself, I'm afraid I can't help.
Dont you think the Caso Negreira hurts messi's legacy? From 2000 to 2018 it appears that Barça fixed matches
Was found to be complete bs
Well Messi legacy is so big that nobody gives a shit about negregia
Well unless they r ronaldo fans or man United fans who both r destroyed by Messi during the years
i think part of the problem is how Real Madrid and Barcelona accuumulated a lot of talent for more than a decade, a lot of generational talents like Modric, Benzema, Xavi, Iniesta etc... didn't get as much of a spotlight because they were "Ronaldo/Messi team mates"
i also think media narrative influence judgement a lot on this kind of topics, a lot of great players didn't get exalted as much because they just didn't sell as much as Ronaldo or Messi, names like Muller, or De Bruyne
ps. i Hope you somehow forgot about him, but Ibrahimovic not being on your list could make your whole point invalid
As always you are brilliant with your videos xx ❤Messi has the greatest football brain, always has❤
thanks for putting Fabio Quagliarella, one of the most underrated strikers only because he only played in Italy, but his goals are AMAZING
The long time Messi and Ronaldo kept playing is the only reason why it feels like there was a lost generation. Messi is a freak of nature and there is no one that will show that talen in a long time. It is like the NBA after Jordan left.
I've had a similar thought when i searched for world class strikers in their mid-20s for my Barcelona career mode and the only ones i found were Lautaro Martinez and Victor Osimhen
This video is a masterpiece
24:51 interesting take… I’ve always thought that the physical part of the game is being abused. With good reason! After all teams that put in the yards usually always come on top.
Nowadays a lot give up on the dream when realizing how difficult it is to be a pro let alone world class
Its the 80s. Not just in football but also in basketball (Lebron, Durant, Curry all born in the 80s), tennis (Nadal, Federer, Djokovic all born in the 80s) so many great athletes are born in that decade compared to the following decade. Must be the music
yeah frl, I wonder why? Is it because of the food? Or internet?
theres still giannis embiid but i get what you're saying. The 80s had more talent in gneeral
If the thesis is true (personally I don't think so), before watching the video, I'll say that the reason we don't consider anyone as great as Messi, both Ronaldos etc. is because we have been too focused on the 2 goats who have been blessing us with their talent to this day.
And not many players could have developed in the shadows of the two greats in la liga, arguably the best league 10-15 years ago.
That is why we got good players in other, then less prestigious, leagues like Kane in England, Lewandowski in Germany and let's say Dybala on Italy.
I guess I got most of it right. And it took me seconds :p
LONG COMMENT (BUT I HAD TO SHARE MY THOUGHTS)
I've been thinking about this for a long time:
If Modric retires after this season (which is not completely unlikely) there will not be a single Ballon D'or winning player playing in Europe. That's insane, this prize is awarded every single year yet somehow no one playing in Europe has won it. Additionally it's interesting to look at the youngest Ballon D'or winner, currently it's Benzema, who was the first player to win the Ballon D'or and be younger than Messi. By the time the next Ballon D'or roles around he'll be 2 months shy of 37. If you were to plot on a graph the age of the youngest Ballon D'or throughout idk 1990 to 2023 you'd see a steady almost uninteruppted increase for 15 years, which will most likely be followed by a sharp decrease to the likes of Haaland or Mbappe. You could do the same for the amount of Ballon D'or players actively playing football. To my knowledge there's only 4 currently, I'd be surprised if that wasn't consistently at 8-10 for most of recent football history. I think that's the a way that this generational skip could be visualised.
Lost generation. Young enough to get into social media/twitch/youtube/onlyfans/minecraft culture fully, too old to figure out how to control and ultimately reject the addictive scrolling and similar tricks the corporations and creators use to keep them there in favour of developing their own life.
That is sooooo boomer minded
@@mauricioandres7470nah he’s correct
Maybe a good idea for a video on the 7 greatest football matches of all time? 0:08
It is quite an anomaly now that you bring it up
It would be good to make a video on why dribbling and Skills are non existent in todays game.
And also why the 'number 10' role is also diminishing in modern football