Great updates mate. I definiteyl would not race in the TC but I love it for the long run... if you bang out 20+ mile long runs in the TC then slip on the endorphin pro for race day it'll feel like you're running on air. I personally mix between soft and firm depending on the day / workouts but definitely leaning more towards a softer midsole these days!
Looking forward to the mountain vlog tomorrow! I really wish I lived closer to the mountains as I would really like to film some running videos in the mountains for my UA-cam channel! I usually prefer a mostly firm land for faster stuff and a softer shoe for recovery. Great video Seth!
I am really enjoying my TC, it feels plush and so bouncy ..the soft landing is so sweet..the amazing thing is it feels fast for a shoe offering such a soft landing. Once you pick up speed, you will feel the carbon fibre plate working...the sensation of your foot bouncing off the road with each stride is so nice. TC is a very fun shoe to run in, it is perfect for average runners who might not have that extra leg strength like the experienced runners whom might enjoy a firmer more responsive landing so they can go fast.
QD: I prefer softer landings for my easy/long day shoes to help cushion my joints but for faster training and races I prefer lower stack more firm rides.
QD: Like most everyone else it really depends on the type of run for me. For slow easy days I really like a soft landing to pamper my legs and feet, while for fast stuff I like that firm and responsive feeling.
QD: A range in the middle from responsive/moderately firm (Adidas Boston) to moderately cushioned (NB 880v10). Can’t stand energy-sapping mushy softness but I also donate my shoes when they feel at all dead to prevent injury. I will probably only use a high stack shoe for marathon itself. Moderate level of ground proprioception is appreciated as I’m barely over 100 lbs and efficient. However, I’m still curious to at least try on some of the higher stack trainers coming out (eg. Endorphin Speed) as long as they don’t feel too unstable or mushy for long miles.
I'm the same way @Lev and Martha Polyakin-Aarons! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes!
Qd: depends on the type of run. For most training i like something soft just for comfort for intervals i don't mind something a bit firmer. For racing I'm not really looking for comfort but i don't mind a bit of cushion for the pushing in a longer race saying that.
QD: Depends on the day. I like soft landings on long runs (1080 or TC), cushioned responsiveness in a daily trainer (Clifton, Ride 7) and more direct feedback on speedier days (Rebel, Razor 3).
I'm 60+ so I appreciate shoes with more cushioning. I love the NB 1080v10 and the Hoka Rincon, which allow me to run longer without getting fatigued. My goal is a half marathon by the end of the year, so I need to increase my mileage this summer. Great video, Seth.
I generally like a soft landing with some pop to it! When I run in a firmer shoe my knee pain sparks up and I seem to get injured more often. Keep it up Seth!
QD: I prefer a soft landing. I feel that when I land, a harder shoes sends that impact up my shins to my knees. Also, with a firmer shoe I notice my recovery is longer. With a softer landing on the road, I feel like the shoe absorbs into the ground slightly and I get a better push off. So the momentum gets carried.the softer shoe like the vaporfly really helps with recovery as well.
QD: I tend to prefer softer landings from my midsole, I think the reasoning behind this is I have a history with stress fracture injuries in my lower legs so the more impact the shoe can take off my legs the better.
QD: used to like more softer landing but with today’s technology there seems to be options for ample cushion while also getting that great energy return sensation. One of the reasons I’m glad I pushed past 50-60 miles in the 1080v10 before writing it off. Thought it was too stiff for a daily trainer at first but after a little longer break in period than I’m used to it’s become one of my favorite midsoles of all time. Went from stiff to a great blend of cushion and responsive energy return. Especially in warmer temps. Seems that foam they’re using isn’t as bouncy in colder temps.
Hi Seth, thanks for the video. I tried them and especially for tempo running and fast paces I really enjoyed them. I cannot say the same at slower pace, but this shoe wasn’t designed to run slowly ... :)
I'm the same way Pianoman1234321! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes!
I prefer firm. As a bigger framed runner, I feel like I have to work way too hard just to keep a reasonable pace in soft shoes. They also make me legs way more sore (maybe my form is poor in soft shoes?)
QD: I typically like firmer landing for the most part. I've been trying some of the more cushioned shoes lately (Speedgoat, Olympus, etc.) and find them to be too much.
QD: I've been running since I was like 11 so my body can handle firmer shoes relatively well for track sessions and faster stuff on the roads but definitely need a softer shoe for the longer runs
QOD- I like different shoes on different days. Sometimes a low stack and drop feels great, sometimes my feet or ankles might want a little something softer and with more stack. Sometimes the weather or terrain or planned tempo decide for me the correct shoe for the run.
Now I understand how ahead is Nike. They have an amazing line up. To compare with the new prices on the market now they are on the cheap, especially if you are like me an you wait for the 30+% sale. Qd: Soft. I love my Fly Flyknit (react carbon plate) same upper as the 4%. I put on 22 pounds the last year and my knees are grateful.
QD: I love myself a soft landing on easy days and long-run days (even if it is a steady or faster LR)! This is because it preserves my legs for the next day and allows me to really "feel" recovered. I don't know if I actually do recover better than I would in a firm shoe, but I think the "feel" is just as important. Lately, these shoes have been the Nike React Miler and Infinity Run. When I am doing any threshold, repeats, or speed days then I usually go in for a firmer shoe. I don't think the ground contact really helps me in the workout but for me, it's important to use the firmer feel to train my feet, ankles, and calves to absorb some harder impact so they can get stronger. Lately, this shoe has been the Adidas Boston 8 and Nike Streak 6.
I use the 1080 v10 for the comfort, cushioning. durability on steady to easy runs its a winner. Used to use various Brooks shoes but prefer the New Balance now. Might try the NB Fuel cell prism for faster work as its a lot cheaper than the TC
1080v10 took about 50-60 miles to break in for me but once they did now one of my favorite shoes of all time. Sort of stiff at first but now well cushioned with a lot more energy return.
QD: I really like that in the middle area because I am injury prone so hard is a no go, and soft I just dont feel like I'm getting enough energy return.
I'm the same way Bryce! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes!
QD: Softer. Older body needs that protection. If not for soft midsoles, I couldn’t handle high mileage running, especially in the joints and ligaments.
I'm the same way Alexander! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes! And I have had IT Band issues so I use slightly softer shoes than I did previously!
QD: I prefer a firmer landing (Adios, EvoRide, Cloudflow, SL20, Escalante Racer, Pegasus before 37) because I like the ground contact feel responsive, low profile shoes provide, and I wanna be in control of my gait cycle as much as possible. Exceeding 100k weeks on a regular basis without rest days, however, my legs are happier with a little more protection (NovaBlast, GlideRide, Propel).
QD: Somewhere in the middle; something that would work well for faster workouts, as well as longer runs, and potentially, easy runs. The Boston 8 and 9 are good examples.
I'm the same way Jason! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes!
I'm conflicted on this - I bought a pair of Novablasts a few weeks ago and LOVE the ride - it has a propulsive bounciness and protects the legs really well. But then I started having the same problem you had - blisters on my achilles tendons, particularly on my left foot. And then I started having some pretty sharp pains - basically cramps - in my upper ankle on the back side of my calf the last 2 days I ran with the Novablasts. I switched back to a firmer shoe (Nike React Infinity) the next day following each time and didn't have the issue. I think what's going on is that while the bounciness of the Novablast provides a nice ride, it allows for lots of excess motion in the ankles and calves, which puts those areas under more strain than usual. Also, there is something about the heel of the shoe that causes those horrible blisters; i think it's pitched at too steep of an angle forward perhaps? All this to say I think I'm landing on needing a shoe that provides some cushion, but has enough firmness to reduce excess motion.
QOD: I prefer thicker forefoot material. Doesn't have to be soft, but I find midsoles with minimal stack in the fore/midfoot hurt my feet over time. I run 95% on pavement. For races under 5 miles, minimal cushion is preferred and shoe weight is top priority.
I'm the same way Allen! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes!
QD: Finding that sweet spot that's a little bit more towards soft. I like the feel of the Rincon for this reason and LOVE the Beacon because somehow it just seems to pop off while being such a gentle ride
I love the Beacons too! It's been awhile since I have worn them, but when v3 comes out, maybe I'll try them out for my UA-cam channel. Keep it up John!
Seth, 'preciate the knowledge. You sure have saved me a lotta money!!! I normally train in what I'd race in (shoe budget is about $130/pair), and if I can get a softer landing, and it doesn't take away from speed and stability for that run/race, I go with it since it saves the body. Re QotD, the faster I'm going, normally, I like more ground contact. Racing flats for the track because I have the spongy track surface to assist with impact. So, for 5-10k's, I like a lower stack height (Boston 8/9, Turbo 2?) because I need to feel stable carrying and generating speed. This is assuming I'm running on asphalt. CC meets on a golf course, etc., then I for sure go a flatter "Oregon Waffle" type low profile turf shoe. Grass acts like the spongy track and absorbs impact. Anything above 10k, especially half marathon distance and beyond, again an asphalt surface, then I'm looking for more stack height and a kind of glide (Turbo 2, Novablast, Zoomfly 3?).
Very interesting - unlike most runners I prefer a softer shoe for my tempo runs, maybe due to the fact that I do the fast stuff on the roads. For my easier long runs I prefer slightly firmer shoes with a tad more stability as my form is not as great at easy paces.
Qod: I used to prefer firm but flexible landings, Nike frees were my go tos for years... but now that I'm starting from scratch after not training for a few years I kind of prefer softer landings to safely strengthen my legs
QD: bit of both, because I overpronate slightly I need a bit more of a firmer stable ride. However I do love a soft landing. My shoe line up says it all really Nike Peg37 Zoom fly 3 ON cloudswift ASICS Kayano Infinity run
Hey seth! As softer shoes become more frequent on the blog have you thought of the saucony triumph 17? They are super soft. Brilliant for the recovery runs!
Love soft shoes but the lack of road feel can make me lose form and heel strike if I fatigue , a firmer midsole like the brooks here will simply give the feedback immediately. But my legs have been going through a learning curve since wearing mostly hokas. Regardless they have their place especially on pavement. For unpaved areas or dirt tracks , I definitely prefer a firmer landing.
I'm the same way Henry! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes!
My TC red pair, the front NB logo overlay is actually made of reflective material. At night, it reflects light so much like torch light bright so it does have a function there. Not sure about Seth's white pair though.
I really like firm landings as well Frederik! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes!
QD: I prefer softer landings to save the legs but when it comes to fast paces I prefer a more responsive shoe to feel fast. By the way I love the hyperion tempo for my Tempo days
I'm the same way Christian! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes! I do love responsive shoes!
Somewhere in the middle. To much cushioning seems to take energy away, doesn’t return it. In the middle seems to be the sweet spot, soft enough to be easy on legs but feels as if I’m not losing any energy moving forward, although both the Rincon and Clifton are soft to me the Rincon is perfect. Lightweight and cushioned but not overly. I love you both and running both but prefer to race in the Rincon
I'm the same way Tony! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes! I need to try the Rincons!
QD: I am big on shoes with a softer landing, whether it’s speed or recovery. Sometimes something a little firmer is nice for those fast days but even then I’m not entirely sure.
I did a long run Saturday in my tc. I wouldn't change a thing but it was humid and by Mile 10 my feet where sloshing i had so much sweat in my shoes. Im also surpirsed how well the exposed fuelcell did even after some gravel paths
I will take the average and keep my Fuelcell rebel(s)...liked them so much I have two pair!! Love em! Thanks for the review! I have both of these in my shopping cart hoping for a sale in the near future!
Hyperion Tempo: Is there any reason for not using this shoe on the marathon distance? Seth just named it a Tempo Shoe but I don‘t see a big difference to the Adidas Boston for example. In fact it’s even lighter at comparable grade of cushion. Thanks for any thoughts on that & Regards from Germany ✌🏼🇩🇪
Saucony Endorphin Pro is in the same class as the FuelCell RC and not TC though. "Firm" mostly makes me think of a dead shoe when the cushion has worn out.
I'm a heel striker. When I'm consistently keeping my miles around 30 per weeks I need a less stable shoe. I just got a pair of Tempos that I am going to try out for shorter speed runs.
Also a heel striker and Plantar Fascia past few months. Always ran in Nike Pegausus, recently changed to Hoka Clifton 6 and Hoka Ahari 4 (stability shoe). Huge difference, plantar feels so much better
@@schries I have always run in the Brooks Adrenalins. Loved the 18s, not a fan of the 19s, love the 20s. I recently started wearing the Ravenna 11s more of a speed stability shoe and I love them. They are now my go to every run shoe. Hoping the Tempos will work out for the mile to 5k speed runs.
QD: (Surprisingly) firmer at the moment. I was surprised when I bought the SL20 (got it because of a good discount), that I'm liking it's firmer character. I love the feedback and quickness. Before that, I prefer more cushioned shoes. Something was definitely unveiled in terms of my relatively young running experience with that shoe. Although, I always keep in mind to listen to my body when running in it given that it's firm. Still, it's a joy running in a shoe that I initially was not considering as a main go to.
Great review. I prefer a softer landing for a couple reasons. For one, I weigh 215 lbs with a semi muscular frame so I'm not what you would call an avid runner, I just try to get roughly 4-5 runs in per week anywhere from 3-6 miles. Secondly, my previous military time and other physical jobs have worn down the knees and back, so it just helps to have that extra cushion. There are times when I want a more responsive feel so I keep several shoes in the lineup. I just got the Hoka Rincon and they feel great for me. I love the plushness of the NB 1080v10, but like you said sometimes you just need that responsiveness that other shoes offer. Right now I rotate through the NB 1080v10, Hoka Rincon, Nike Peg 37, NB Beacon v2, and occasionally the Under Armour HOVR Machina. I'd love to pick up the FuelCell TC's but $200 is a bit steep, especially considering I already have plenty to use and I'm not racking up any crazy miles.
I prefer both Clifton! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes! I have been wearing the NB Rebels, you should check those out!
Parker Max Yeah I’ve watched a few reviews on the Rebel, looks like a solid shoe. You’re correct also, both have a place in the shoe lineup. Harder to do any kind of speed work in max cushioned shoes. The firmer shoes are best for tempo and speed/interval training. I’ll check out your channel.
QD: I prefer something in the middle because I use a lot of my shoes for different purposes ie (tempo, long runs, and md runs) so I want a shoe that will be good for a lot of tasks
I have run roughly 300 miles in the hyperon tempo. It’s a good reliable shoe, but strangely i have found it quite firm and stable, i.e. the opposite to your review. I say that it’s stable because the forefoot is reasonably wide and the stack height is average to medium. It’s a light weight shoe and the upper is good. IMO however, there is nothing ‘tempo’ about it as the shoe does not provide much in the way of energy return. I think the foam rebounds too quickly, such that there is no energy left to return on push off.
90k! Let's goooo! 100k is coming fast, homie. QoD: For hard efforts I need all the help I can get on energy return so i like a firm landing. I find soft shoes to "sink in" too much under my weight. I like them for steazy recovery runs though.
QD: like you I kind of bounce between softer and firm - I think if I was doing anything real long I would move towards the softer ones but the longest I am running right now is 14 so pretty much anything will work.
QD: I'm working on ramping up my mileage and range so I am trying to use shoes on the softer side to save my legs/knees. I prefer firmer shoes on trails though.
I'm the same way Jonathan! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes for everyday miles!
I'm the same way Joe! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes! And I like to be able to feel the ground sometimes!
QD: I definitely prefer a firmer landing; I like to get as much pop off the ground as possible. That said, I am something a young whipper snapper, so we’ll see what my legs have to say about that in a few years! 😂
Soft!... just love that spongey landing. I don’t understand the draw in firm landings... why have the midsole at all? Or have a soft material and make it thinner to save weight 🤷♂️
Since you are focusing on running shoes, you may want to consider some ways to be more objective about certain aspects of your reviews that contain data points. I like the running shoe matrix, that is going to be an amazing product as you build it out over time. My ideas on ways to be objective are to publish a rating scale with criteria for your 1-10 overall rating, and to develop some way to quantify the price point of shoes (incorporating features of the shoe and their overall value). I know you are already doing these calculations in your head, but it would help the audience to know what you mean by, for example, 8.1 out of 10 and why a price point of $150 is too high for the overall value of that shoe (i.e. not a racer, no carbon plate, low build material, etc.). Keep up the great work! Time to get off the couch and go do my time trial! 👊🏻
I prefer firm shoes. I will not buy these shoes (hyperion and TC) just for one reason: too expensive...too much.... I prefer to spend my money for something else and buy cheaper (but still good) running shoes. Keep on Seth!
QD: for me this is hard. i like the landing of the pegasus turbo which is pretty soft, but then the peg 36 also feels good. i think as long as it’s not all ground contact feel ill be fine.
I think for heavier runners some shoes are too soft. I’m 175 lbs & find I need a firmer shoe. Otherwise I think I crush the cushioning & don’t get the benefit. What do others think?
Totally agreed. 180 lbs and I find I have to work a lot harder in the softer stuff (think Clifton) and prefer something quite a bit firmer. I think the weight causes the midsoles to compress much more resulting in that mushy feeling, whereas a firmer ride compresses less and ends up feeling to us bigger runners like that Clifton would feel to someone on the lighter side. It's kind of a misnomer to that heavier runners would prefer a more plush' ride for this reason. I just got into running in the last 8 or so months and am having a hell of a time finding that Goldilocks for my 2E's (Though I have tried a TON). May I ask what's working for you right now??
I was hovering around 230 about a year ago, so I guess I still kind of identify that way even though I've lost a lot of weight. But to your point, different strokes...
Im a novice runner and I have a half marathon round november this year, my first ever. So hopefully I'll be 20lbs lighter by then, then maybe a firmer shoe would suit me
Asics Cumulus was my favourite shoe - good support & not too soft. I’ve got a pair of Saucony ISO Rides for the long stuff, they are OK but I might go back to the ASICS next time. For faster workouts and racing I use Adidas Response Boost as they are not too soft & give a really good ride for me.
Great review ! I really had a lot of ankle and foot pain after the first 10 miles in the TC . I do not get that same feel on the Novablast though . Not sure if it should continue with them or sell them . I just don’t want to continue to have that ankle pain but love the midsole .
thank god to seth for exposing the biggest shoe marketing gimmick, fresh foam. Its feels like running on a concrete midsole, heavy and no bounce, also screw brooks too, they tag along with whats popular.
Seth, I wonder if the scrunching happens at all sizes. I can imagine a scenario where they want to cut costs and squeeze an upper from a larger shoe onto the smaller midsole
Seth, is it possible that the width of the shoes might be cause of issue with bumps in the upper? Perhaps You have shoes that are in 2E width size? I run in NB Zante Pursuit in 2E size and I have notice the same bump of material. But in NB Beacon V2 in D size there's no such problems.
There's no 2E version of the TC, only D. It's more likely that they use one upper over the span of two sizes, resulting in excess material at the lower range. Another possibility is that they deliberately built a roomier toe box, what with its being for training, not racing. Thus runners with lower volume feet will wrinkle the upper when they cinch the laces tight. Last, but not least, Seth is very peculiar when it comes to uppers' not staying in shape. However, it's just aesthetical, nothing that impacts the ride at all!
I'm the same way Gelo! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes! Asics were my first running shoes and they were firm!
@seth interested to hear recommendations for a slightly supportive tempo shoe. I have Hyperion tempos but think my ankle finds them a touch under supporting. I haven't got on well with zoom fly 3 as the same ankle doesn't love the high stack height? Was considering meta racer but pricey...
Great updates mate. I definiteyl would not race in the TC but I love it for the long run... if you bang out 20+ mile long runs in the TC then slip on the endorphin pro for race day it'll feel like you're running on air. I personally mix between soft and firm depending on the day / workouts but definitely leaning more towards a softer midsole these days!
QD: I prefer a softer landing whenever I’m going at a slower pace but a more firm landing whenever I want to go a bit faster
Looking forward to the mountain vlog tomorrow! I really wish I lived closer to the mountains as I would really like to film some running videos in the mountains for my UA-cam channel! I usually prefer a mostly firm land for faster stuff and a softer shoe for recovery. Great video Seth!
I am really enjoying my TC, it feels plush and so bouncy ..the soft landing is so sweet..the amazing thing is it feels fast for a shoe offering such a soft landing. Once you pick up speed, you will feel the carbon fibre plate working...the sensation of your foot bouncing off the road with each stride is so nice. TC is a very fun shoe to run in, it is perfect for average runners who might not have that extra leg strength like the experienced runners whom might enjoy a firmer more responsive landing so they can go fast.
Seth only needs 2 or 3 runs to get a full review (50 mi.) 🏃
QD: I prefer softer landings for my easy/long day shoes to help cushion my joints but for faster training and races I prefer lower stack more firm rides.
QD: Like most everyone else it really depends on the type of run for me. For slow easy days I really like a soft landing to pamper my legs and feet, while for fast stuff I like that firm and responsive feeling.
QD: I definitely prefer a very soft landing, in order to prevent runners knee, especially when running higher mileage!
I’m just obsessed with this channel👌
QD: A range in the middle from responsive/moderately firm (Adidas Boston) to moderately cushioned (NB 880v10). Can’t stand energy-sapping mushy softness but I also donate my shoes when they feel at all dead to prevent injury. I will probably only use a high stack shoe for marathon itself. Moderate level of ground proprioception is appreciated as I’m barely over 100 lbs and efficient. However, I’m still curious to at least try on some of the higher stack trainers coming out (eg. Endorphin Speed) as long as they don’t feel too unstable or mushy for long miles.
I'm the same way @Lev and Martha Polyakin-Aarons! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes!
Qd: depends on the type of run. For most training i like something soft just for comfort for intervals i don't mind something a bit firmer. For racing I'm not really looking for comfort but i don't mind a bit of cushion for the pushing in a longer race saying that.
I'm the same way William! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals.
QoD: depends on the purpose - Easy day shoe = soft. Regular day = mid-soft .. Tempo day = firm-ish .. Race day = Firm
QD: I’m 53 and a softer landing is really a necessity now. Go Hoka!!
QD: Depends on the day. I like soft landings on long runs (1080 or TC), cushioned responsiveness in a daily trainer (Clifton, Ride 7) and more direct feedback on speedier days (Rebel, Razor 3).
QD: Softer. I started running at an older age and need the softer landing now.
I like a former ride because it helps me be more aware of my form and foot strike...I can get sloppy as I get tired
I'm 60+ so I appreciate shoes with more cushioning. I love the NB 1080v10 and the Hoka Rincon, which allow me to run longer without getting fatigued. My goal is a half marathon by the end of the year, so I need to increase my mileage this summer. Great video, Seth.
I generally like a soft landing with some pop to it! When I run in a firmer shoe my knee pain sparks up and I seem to get injured more often. Keep it up Seth!
QD: I prefer a soft landing. I feel that when I land, a harder shoes sends that impact up my shins to my knees. Also, with a firmer shoe I notice my recovery is longer. With a softer landing on the road, I feel like the shoe absorbs into the ground slightly and I get a better push off. So the momentum gets carried.the softer shoe like the vaporfly really helps with recovery as well.
Softer here...I am a big guy at 245. Plus, my lower lumbar and tailbone are fused. So softness is a must!
QD: I tend to prefer softer landings from my midsole, I think the reasoning behind this is I have a history with stress fracture injuries in my lower legs so the more impact the shoe can take off my legs the better.
QD: used to like more softer landing but with today’s technology there seems to be options for ample cushion while also getting that great energy return sensation. One of the reasons I’m glad I pushed past 50-60 miles in the 1080v10 before writing it off. Thought it was too stiff for a daily trainer at first but after a little longer break in period than I’m used to it’s become one of my favorite midsoles of all time. Went from stiff to a great blend of cushion and responsive energy return. Especially in warmer temps. Seems that foam they’re using isn’t as bouncy in colder temps.
Hi Seth, thanks for the video. I tried them and especially for tempo running and fast paces I really enjoyed them. I cannot say the same at slower pace, but this shoe wasn’t designed to run slowly ... :)
QD: I like soft but I try to mix in some firmer shoes so my legs don't get too spoiled haha
I'm the same way Pianoman1234321! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes!
I prefer firm. As a bigger framed runner, I feel like I have to work way too hard just to keep a reasonable pace in soft shoes. They also make me legs way more sore (maybe my form is poor in soft shoes?)
QD: I typically like firmer landing for the most part. I've been trying some of the more cushioned shoes lately (Speedgoat, Olympus, etc.) and find them to be too much.
At my age the softer the better, but I do like to, in my rotation, run at least once a week in a firmer shoe (Hoka Mach).
QD: I've been running since I was like 11 so my body can handle firmer shoes relatively well for track sessions and faster stuff on the roads but definitely need a softer shoe for the longer runs
Definitely a softer landing with my right knee problem and age! That's why I am loving the Hoka's after 12 years away from running!
QOD- I like different shoes on different days. Sometimes a low stack and drop feels great, sometimes my feet or ankles might want a little something softer and with more stack. Sometimes the weather or terrain or planned tempo decide for me the correct shoe for the run.
I'm the same way JMax! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes!
Now I understand how ahead is Nike. They have an amazing line up. To compare with the new prices on the market now they are on the cheap, especially if you are like me an you wait for the 30+% sale.
Qd: Soft. I love my Fly Flyknit (react carbon plate) same upper as the 4%. I put on 22 pounds the last year and my knees are grateful.
QD: I love myself a soft landing on easy days and long-run days (even if it is a steady or faster LR)! This is because it preserves my legs for the next day and allows me to really "feel" recovered. I don't know if I actually do recover better than I would in a firm shoe, but I think the "feel" is just as important. Lately, these shoes have been the Nike React Miler and Infinity Run. When I am doing any threshold, repeats, or speed days then I usually go in for a firmer shoe. I don't think the ground contact really helps me in the workout but for me, it's important to use the firmer feel to train my feet, ankles, and calves to absorb some harder impact so they can get stronger. Lately, this shoe has been the Adidas Boston 8 and Nike Streak 6.
Oooffff - 1080 v10 have been robbed, shoe of the year surely? Need to start a petition for a rethink on this one 😁
I use the 1080 v10 for the comfort, cushioning. durability on steady to easy runs its a winner. Used to use various Brooks shoes but prefer the New Balance now. Might try the NB Fuel cell prism for faster work as its a lot cheaper than the TC
I feel like the 1080s slip on my heel, maybe I will have to give my review on my youtube channel, but I think the FuelCell Rebels are better!
1080v10 took about 50-60 miles to break in for me but once they did now one of my favorite shoes of all time. Sort of stiff at first but now well cushioned with a lot more energy return.
QD: I really like that in the middle area because I am injury prone so hard is a no go, and soft I just dont feel like I'm getting enough energy return.
I'm the same way Bryce! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes!
QD: Softer. Older body needs that protection. If not for soft midsoles, I couldn’t handle high mileage running, especially in the joints and ligaments.
I used to prefer a firmer landing, but my I've had some knee trouble, so I now prefer a softer landing. Completely changed the types of shoes I buy.
I'm the same way Alexander! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes! And I have had IT Band issues so I use slightly softer shoes than I did previously!
QD: I prefer a firmer landing (Adios, EvoRide, Cloudflow, SL20, Escalante Racer, Pegasus before 37) because I like the ground contact feel responsive, low profile shoes provide, and I wanna be in control of my gait cycle as much as possible. Exceeding 100k weeks on a regular basis without rest days, however, my legs are happier with a little more protection (NovaBlast, GlideRide, Propel).
QD: Firm landing. Cushioning is putting high impact force on your joints.
People saying Tempo is soft but… for me it is a firm ride underfoot, very fast light weight shoes, however firm.
QD: Somewhere in the middle; something that would work well for faster workouts, as well as longer runs, and potentially, easy runs. The Boston 8 and 9 are good examples.
I'm the same way Max! But I like a sightly firm landing for fast stuff
QD: Firm landing for sure, I like the response and being able to feel the road a little more.
I'm the same way Jason! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes!
I'm conflicted on this - I bought a pair of Novablasts a few weeks ago and LOVE the ride - it has a propulsive bounciness and protects the legs really well. But then I started having the same problem you had - blisters on my achilles tendons, particularly on my left foot. And then I started having some pretty sharp pains - basically cramps - in my upper ankle on the back side of my calf the last 2 days I ran with the Novablasts. I switched back to a firmer shoe (Nike React Infinity) the next day following each time and didn't have the issue. I think what's going on is that while the bounciness of the Novablast provides a nice ride, it allows for lots of excess motion in the ankles and calves, which puts those areas under more strain than usual. Also, there is something about the heel of the shoe that causes those horrible blisters; i think it's pitched at too steep of an angle forward perhaps? All this to say I think I'm landing on needing a shoe that provides some cushion, but has enough firmness to reduce excess motion.
QOD: I prefer thicker forefoot material. Doesn't have to be soft, but I find midsoles with minimal stack in the fore/midfoot hurt my feet over time. I run 95% on pavement. For races under 5 miles, minimal cushion is preferred and shoe weight is top priority.
I'm the same way Allen! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes!
QD: Finding that sweet spot that's a little bit more towards soft. I like the feel of the Rincon for this reason and LOVE the Beacon because somehow it just seems to pop off while being such a gentle ride
I love the Beacons too! It's been awhile since I have worn them, but when v3 comes out, maybe I'll try them out for my UA-cam channel. Keep it up John!
Seth, 'preciate the knowledge. You sure have saved me a lotta money!!! I normally train in what I'd race in (shoe budget is about $130/pair), and if I can get a softer landing, and it doesn't take away from speed and stability for that run/race, I go with it since it saves the body. Re QotD, the faster I'm going, normally, I like more ground contact. Racing flats for the track because I have the spongy track surface to assist with impact. So, for 5-10k's, I like a lower stack height (Boston 8/9, Turbo 2?) because I need to feel stable carrying and generating speed. This is assuming I'm running on asphalt. CC meets on a golf course, etc., then I for sure go a flatter "Oregon Waffle" type low profile turf shoe. Grass acts like the spongy track and absorbs impact. Anything above 10k, especially half marathon distance and beyond, again an asphalt surface, then I'm looking for more stack height and a kind of glide (Turbo 2, Novablast, Zoomfly 3?).
Very interesting - unlike most runners I prefer a softer shoe for my tempo runs, maybe due to the fact that I do the fast stuff on the roads. For my easier long runs I prefer slightly firmer shoes with a tad more stability as my form is not as great at easy paces.
Qod: I used to prefer firm but flexible landings, Nike frees were my go tos for years... but now that I'm starting from scratch after not training for a few years I kind of prefer softer landings to safely strengthen my legs
QOTD: I like firm but bouncy shoes and prefer nylon plated, top favs are the nb rebels and Brooks hyperion tempo(current running shoe)
QD: bit of both, because I overpronate slightly I need a bit more of a firmer stable ride. However I do love a soft landing. My shoe line up says it all really
Nike Peg37
Zoom fly 3
ON cloudswift
ASICS Kayano
Infinity run
Hey seth! As softer shoes become more frequent on the blog have you thought of the saucony triumph 17? They are super soft. Brilliant for the recovery runs!
Rrooks haven’t had any good running shoes in a while but the Hyperion tempo is brilliant👌👌
GTS 20s are the best
👍
I really want to try these!! If I do I will make sure to give my opinion about them on my UA-cam channel! Thanks for the suggestion Shasta!
@Parker Max such a great shoe you should consider buying them!
Just got them 4 days ago👌👌
Love soft shoes but the lack of road feel can make me lose form and heel strike if I fatigue , a firmer midsole like the brooks here will simply give the feedback immediately. But my legs have been going through a learning curve since wearing mostly hokas. Regardless they have their place especially on pavement. For unpaved areas or dirt tracks , I definitely prefer a firmer landing.
I'm the same way Henry! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes!
QD: Love both for diffrent stuff. But if i have to choice one i'm on the firmer side. a shoe can get to soft but not to firm.
I wanted to like the Hoka Clifton 6 but I couldn't get a good lock down on top at all. I do like Brooks for heel and top lock down. Great review!
My TC red pair, the front NB logo overlay is actually made of reflective material. At night, it reflects light so much like torch light bright so it does have a function there. Not sure about Seth's white pair though.
QD: I personally prefer a little bit firmer landing, because I'm a heavier guy and if it gets to soft I'm worried I would get unstable
I really like firm landings as well Frederik! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes!
QD: on intervals - firm. easy and long runs - soft.
QD: I prefer softer landings to save the legs but when it comes to fast paces I prefer a more responsive shoe to feel fast. By the way I love the hyperion tempo for my Tempo days
I'm the same way Christian! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes! I do love responsive shoes!
No thumbs down! 'Bout time people got with it!
Somewhere in the middle. To much cushioning seems to take energy away, doesn’t return it. In the middle seems to be the sweet spot, soft enough to be easy on legs but feels as if I’m not losing any energy moving forward, although both the Rincon and Clifton are soft to me the Rincon is perfect. Lightweight and cushioned but not overly. I love you both and running both but prefer to race in the Rincon
I'm the same way Tony! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes! I need to try the Rincons!
QD: I am big on shoes with a softer landing, whether it’s speed or recovery. Sometimes something a little firmer is nice for those fast days but even then I’m not entirely sure.
I did a long run Saturday in my tc. I wouldn't change a thing but it was humid and by Mile 10 my feet where sloshing i had so much sweat in my shoes.
Im also surpirsed how well the exposed fuelcell did even after some gravel paths
I will take the average and keep my Fuelcell rebel(s)...liked them so much I have two pair!! Love em!
Thanks for the review! I have both of these in my shopping cart hoping for a sale in the near future!
Hyperion Tempo: Is there any reason for not using this shoe on the marathon distance? Seth just named it a Tempo Shoe but I don‘t see a big difference to the Adidas Boston for example. In fact it’s even lighter at comparable grade of cushion. Thanks for any thoughts on that & Regards from Germany ✌🏼🇩🇪
Saucony Endorphin Pro is in the same class as the FuelCell RC and not TC though.
"Firm" mostly makes me think of a dead shoe when the cushion has worn out.
I'm a heel striker. When I'm consistently keeping my miles around 30 per weeks I need a less stable shoe. I just got a pair of Tempos that I am going to try out for shorter speed runs.
Also a heel striker and Plantar Fascia past few months. Always ran in Nike Pegausus, recently changed to Hoka Clifton 6 and Hoka Ahari 4 (stability shoe). Huge difference, plantar feels so much better
@@schries I have always run in the Brooks Adrenalins. Loved the 18s, not a fan of the 19s, love the 20s. I recently started wearing the Ravenna 11s more of a speed stability shoe and I love them. They are now my go to every run shoe. Hoping the Tempos will work out for the mile to 5k speed runs.
QD: (Surprisingly) firmer at the moment. I was surprised when I bought the SL20 (got it because of a good discount), that I'm liking it's firmer character. I love the feedback and quickness. Before that, I prefer more cushioned shoes. Something was definitely unveiled in terms of my relatively young running experience with that shoe. Although, I always keep in mind to listen to my body when running in it given that it's firm. Still, it's a joy running in a shoe that I initially was not considering as a main go to.
Great review. I prefer a softer landing for a couple reasons. For one, I weigh 215 lbs with a semi muscular frame so I'm not what you would call an avid runner, I just try to get roughly 4-5 runs in per week anywhere from 3-6 miles. Secondly, my previous military time and other physical jobs have worn down the knees and back, so it just helps to have that extra cushion. There are times when I want a more responsive feel so I keep several shoes in the lineup. I just got the Hoka Rincon and they feel great for me. I love the plushness of the NB 1080v10, but like you said sometimes you just need that responsiveness that other shoes offer. Right now I rotate through the NB 1080v10, Hoka Rincon, Nike Peg 37, NB Beacon v2, and occasionally the Under Armour HOVR Machina. I'd love to pick up the FuelCell TC's but $200 is a bit steep, especially considering I already have plenty to use and I'm not racking up any crazy miles.
I prefer both Clifton! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes! I have been wearing the NB Rebels, you should check those out!
Parker Max Yeah I’ve watched a few reviews on the Rebel, looks like a solid shoe. You’re correct also, both have a place in the shoe lineup. Harder to do any kind of speed work in max cushioned shoes. The firmer shoes are best for tempo and speed/interval training. I’ll check out your channel.
QD: I prefer something in the middle because I use a lot of my shoes for different purposes ie (tempo, long runs, and md runs) so I want a shoe that will be good for a lot of tasks
I have run roughly 300 miles in the hyperon tempo. It’s a good reliable shoe, but strangely i have found it quite firm and stable, i.e. the opposite to your review. I say that it’s stable because the forefoot is reasonably wide and the stack height is average to medium. It’s a light weight shoe and the upper is good. IMO however, there is nothing ‘tempo’ about it as the shoe does not provide much in the way of energy return. I think the foam rebounds too quickly, such that there is no energy left to return on push off.
90k! Let's goooo! 100k is coming fast, homie.
QoD: For hard efforts I need all the help I can get on energy return so i like a firm landing. I find soft shoes to "sink in" too much under my weight. I like them for steazy recovery runs though.
QD: like you I kind of bounce between softer and firm - I think if I was doing anything real long I would move towards the softer ones but the longest I am running right now is 14 so pretty much anything will work.
Hyperion in white is the trail version. Not sure why would they pick black for the road and white for the trail shoes.
QD: I'm working on ramping up my mileage and range so I am trying to use shoes on the softer side to save my legs/knees. I prefer firmer shoes on trails though.
I'm the same way Jonathan! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes for everyday miles!
QOTD: I prefer somewhere in between because I want to keep the legs fresh while also feeling in control of the shoe.
I'm the same way Joe! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes! And I like to be able to feel the ground sometimes!
QOD: I prefer a softer landing for everything except racing flats for 10K or under.
QD: As I get older I prefer a softer landing all around
Every time I hear expeditious I think TI 😀
QD: this why I like Nike react. Its soft enough for easy days but I'm never afraid to put some down force on my feet. Any react shoe really.
QD: I definitely prefer a firmer landing; I like to get as much pop off the ground as possible. That said, I am something a young whipper snapper, so we’ll see what my legs have to say about that in a few years! 😂
Me too Gregory! I will have to talk about that on my UA-cam channel soon!
QD: soft and springy. I'm new to the game and my legs can't take that much hammering
Yes the dancing music is back I am now satisfied
Soft!... just love that spongey landing. I don’t understand the draw in firm landings... why have the midsole at all? Or have a soft material and make it thinner to save weight 🤷♂️
Since you are focusing on running shoes, you may want to consider some ways to be more objective about certain aspects of your reviews that contain data points. I like the running shoe matrix, that is going to be an amazing product as you build it out over time. My ideas on ways to be objective are to publish a rating scale with criteria for your 1-10 overall rating, and to develop some way to quantify the price point of shoes (incorporating features of the shoe and their overall value). I know you are already doing these calculations in your head, but it would help the audience to know what you mean by, for example, 8.1 out of 10 and why a price point of $150 is too high for the overall value of that shoe (i.e. not a racer, no carbon plate, low build material, etc.). Keep up the great work! Time to get off the couch and go do my time trial! 👊🏻
I prefer firm shoes. I will not buy these shoes (hyperion and TC) just for one reason: too expensive...too much.... I prefer to spend my money for something else and buy cheaper (but still good) running shoes. Keep on Seth!
Yes Francesco! I totally agree with you, in fact coming up soon on my UA-cam channel, I will be discussing how I found my cheap racing shoes!
QD: for me this is hard. i like the landing of the pegasus turbo which is pretty soft, but then the peg 36 also feels good. i think as long as it’s not all ground contact feel ill be fine.
I think for heavier runners some shoes are too soft. I’m 175 lbs & find I need a firmer shoe. Otherwise I think I crush the cushioning & don’t get the benefit. What do others think?
Totally agreed. 180 lbs and I find I have to work a lot harder in the softer stuff (think Clifton) and prefer something quite a bit firmer. I think the weight causes the midsoles to compress much more resulting in that mushy feeling, whereas a firmer ride compresses less and ends up feeling to us bigger runners like that Clifton would feel to someone on the lighter side. It's kind of a misnomer to that heavier runners would prefer a more plush' ride for this reason. I just got into running in the last 8 or so months and am having a hell of a time finding that Goldilocks for my 2E's (Though I have tried a TON). May I ask what's working for you right now??
175 & 180lbs are considered heavy runners? Since when? Lol I'm what you call a heavy runner at 232lbs, and for me I prefer softer cushioning
I was hovering around 230 about a year ago, so I guess I still kind of identify that way even though I've lost a lot of weight. But to your point, different strokes...
Im a novice runner and I have a half marathon round november this year, my first ever. So hopefully I'll be 20lbs lighter by then, then maybe a firmer shoe would suit me
Asics Cumulus was my favourite shoe - good support & not too soft. I’ve got a pair of Saucony ISO Rides for the long stuff, they are OK but I might go back to the ASICS next time. For faster workouts and racing I use Adidas Response Boost as they are not too soft & give a really good ride for me.
QD: I enjoy the firmer landing of my Brooks Launch 7s, but I would like to try out the softer but more responsive Hyperion Tempos
Great review ! I really had a lot of ankle and foot pain after the first 10 miles in the TC . I do not get that same feel on the Novablast though . Not sure if it should continue with them or sell them . I just don’t want to continue to have that ankle pain but love the midsole .
How would the TC compare to various iterations of the Zoom Fly?
Tc is lot softer compare to zoomfly fk and 3. By the way, the weight og TC is nearly zoomfly3
thank god to seth for exposing the biggest shoe marketing gimmick, fresh foam. Its feels like running on a concrete midsole, heavy and no bounce, also screw brooks too, they tag along with whats popular.
What shoes you use
Can you compile the shoes you’ve reviewed and the ratings somewhere like Doug Demuro does with cars?
Seth, I wonder if the scrunching happens at all sizes. I can imagine a scenario where they want to cut costs and squeeze an upper from a larger shoe onto the smaller midsole
Seth, is it possible that the width of the shoes might be cause of issue with bumps in the upper? Perhaps You have shoes that are in 2E width size? I run in NB Zante Pursuit in 2E size and I have notice the same bump of material. But in NB Beacon V2 in D size there's no such problems.
I just got done with the Zante Pursuits! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy the FuelCell Rebel!!
There's no 2E version of the TC, only D. It's more likely that they use one upper over the span of two sizes, resulting in excess material at the lower range. Another possibility is that they deliberately built a roomier toe box, what with its being for training, not racing. Thus runners with lower volume feet will wrinkle the upper when they cinch the laces tight. Last, but not least, Seth is very peculiar when it comes to uppers' not staying in shape. However, it's just aesthetical, nothing that impacts the ride at all!
QD: I really enjoy the firm landing in the ASICS glideride but I don’t have a lot of experience with shoes so I’m not sure
I'm the same way Gelo! I've talked about it briefly on my UA-cam channel, but really enjoy a firm landing for intervals and the comfort of soft shoes! Asics were my first running shoes and they were firm!
Somewhat penalizing the TC for doing exactly what it was made for. It’s a cushioned training companion to their upcoming racer
QD: softer landing b/c im only running nice and slow currently.
@seth interested to hear recommendations for a slightly supportive tempo shoe. I have Hyperion tempos but think my ankle finds them a touch under supporting. I haven't got on well with zoom fly 3 as the same ankle doesn't love the high stack height?
Was considering meta racer but pricey...
Pls make review on alphafly vs endorphin pro!
Is there going to be a full review of the Salomon Sense Ride 3?
This and the Sense 4 Pro. That would really suit his running.