My parents have a 7 or 8 acre field they ignore, next year, I'm planning on trying 6 to 8 types of Landrace plots... Gonna let them go and repeat for a few years to see what I get.
Thank You Gardener Scott, I absolutely Love the Landrace Concept of gardening, I just started embracing this method on a small scale a few years ago and I love it. Your Explanation of landrace Gardening was perfect and I will now refer my friends and Family to this video to help them with understanding the basic Landrace concept. You have a way of explaining complicated topics in a clear, concise and relaxed way that makes it so easy to understand. I document my saved seeds with a photo and brief description of the fruit or vegetable I saved the seeds from. In This description I include Date harvested, Taste profile and color, and any other reason I saved it. I just attach the printed pic with the description to the seed envelope and store them in a dry cool place. I love that you mentioned to share seeds among, Friend, Neighbors and family in the area to increase the genetic stock you have, I do believe this is what gardening is all about; Friends, family, and Neighbors working together to feed, to share common interest and help each other however possible.. Thank You my friend for making this world a better place with your awesome UA-cam Videos..
Years ago, I saved seeds from the Early Girl hybrid, just to see what I would get. The fruit was on the small side, and not very pretty. But boy, its taste was fabulous!
I have saved seeds from my Calendula for more than 17 years. I have a lot of variety in them. All orange, orange with dark middle, yellow, yellow with dark middle, and orange filled bloom and yellow filled bloom. I thought the latter two were gone but this year they popped up. I'm so thrilled I have saved all of this diversity in my garden. I'm considering adding to my genetics next year with some different-looking calendulas. Just for fun :D
I just read Joseph Lofthouse's book on this a few weeks ago and have been thinking about how to start trying this in my small (50x100') garden. Thanks for addressing the concept!
This is very similar to how I garden. I am a bit of a chaos gardener but also I use the seeds from what I've grown to plant the next season. Some of my seeds are from several generations. I only provide water, deep mulch, and some pull and drop weeding or top dressing with cut grass, leaves, etc. Many of my plants come back on their own year after year such as tomatoes, watermelons, all kinds of squash, greens, etc. I'm zone 6 in the sw plains.
Squash vine borer takes out every squash I plant except a large pie pumpkin I got from a local farmers market. Been saving seeds for years now and they are the only ones that live long enough to produce.
I saved black cherry tomato seeds from a grocery store variety pack. I suspect "Midnight Snack" variety. Year 1 with those seeds and they were exactly the black tomatoes as expected. Year 2 planting the seeds harvested from year 1, and both my plants turned out red cherries and don't have the characteristic star pattern on top. I guess it's a hybrid, but I'm surprised it worked out so well the first time. With my "sungold" seeds that I harvest, they stay orange only ~50% of the time it seems, and maybe don't quite match the original flavor, but are still really good.
supposedly sun series has wild tomato "habrochiates" somewhere in its ancestry and its funny flavour comes from that old gene. have a look at the flowers and see if the female bit sticks outside/past the male bits
OMG this is great information. I moved all my cherry tomatoes away from one another this year because I had chocolate cherries and bumblebees that cross-pollinated into something of a hybrid pureed they both tasted delightful but I wanted the difference visually. I will try this next year and hopefully be successful thank you again for all your great information.
Great video as always Gardner Scott! I did this a few years ago with true potato seed (not seed potatoes). Now I have a variety that no one else in the world has. It's nothing special (it's a potato after all lol), but it is more or less adapted to my climate by now and a truly unique spud.
Thanks for all your great videos. I tried planting my tomatoes in larger containers and at the same depth this year, like your video. They were weeks ahead of everyone else in my gardening club this year. 👍
Saving a pepper seed and finding out it's a hybrid is always exciting and a joy (as long as you don't get a hot pep you think isn't hot). I hope for hybrid peppers. Not as much for my tomatoes, don't wanna end up with red or yellow cherokee purples toms.
i cant get a hold of josephs promiscous toms due to border restrictions so im gonna try just breeding a dozen heirlooms together and trying to slowly eliminate bad genes accepting ill have a few each year.
When you find 'volunteer' plants growing in your garden or field -- those are the hardiest stock because they survived on their own so save seeds from them. What I've seen and done with Landrace: First year focus on the survivors, second year focus on heavy producers, third year focus on selecting which ones taste the best (those are likely to have the highest vitamin content). When you buy new seed, you are getting seeds that survived the seed producer's farming process (typically high fertilizer and chemicals) and thus they will struggle in a typical garden unless you match the techniques. I garden with no fertilizers nor chemicals and thus I'm forcing the plants to acclimate to the wild country.
I have giant garlic simply by selecting the best ones and replanting them every year. So big I often get asked if they are elephant garlic. Nope, just saved the seed from the original F1 parents. I want to hybridize my artichokes to Colorado climate. I'm saving green globe seeds and crossing them with a Colorado star. The best way to stabilize this hybrid once it grows is to keep planting F1, F2, and the hybrid until I find a plant that suites my growing needs. Super fun garden nerd stuff.
I’ve developed a particular version of landrace gardening. I have to deal with others who will not eat something different; they have a small group of things they eat. One nuanced difference and it’s off the table. I’m adding new vegetables and fruits to increase their range, also, if they try them. I’m growing different species, so they won’t cross pollinate, and saving those seeds for next year. I try to get the crop to adapt to my climate, etc. but reusing the seeds but I introduce new seeds of that variety into the mix from other reputable sources to increase the genetic diversity. But, my goal is to be consistent with as many individuals contributing to the genetics. My primary goal while developing the crops-and while things are available and affordable-is to save seeds regardless of how many items are produced. When a watermelon splits due to a three day rain after six weeks of drought, I gather the seeds for next year. This is only a sliver of the landrace spectrum but I need to keep the family conflict to a minimum. Some people are spoiled because they’ve never seen bad times but I’m still trying to adapt everything.
I always learn something new from you! I didn't know there was an actual term for what I like doing anyway! That's freaking cool😊 As you know I'm trying all the things. My garden is always evolving and it's always under construction😂 I just now realized that we have pretty much the same growing conditions! "It's either hell or Antarctica around here!" Is one of my coined phrases. My pattypan squash that I continue to get every year is so strong here! And it tastes awesome, so I keep saving the seeds so I hope that by the time I move I can take it with me and it'll grow the same again down in the Carolinas.
Having trouble understanding why If we can't save hybrid seeds to get the same plant, how is it possible that those seeds exist for us to buy? What are the seed companies doing that we can't do to get it to work?
The seed companies take two specific varieties and cross them to produce a specific hybrid fruit. We can do the same if we experiment and discover what the result is with specific plant combinations.
I'm always growing from collected seeds and allowing volunteers. I worry more creating weird or possibly harmful hybrids like dillXfennel, lettuceXwild lactucas or maybe worst carrotXhemlock, because the species border is porous (mule, beefalo, tiger muskie, etc). Probably this is ridiculous concern though.
can defo happen with hemlock but i think youd notice it since hemlock has a tiny crappy root. just check the local area within a few hundred meters and cut it out if you find any. difficult if its common tho.
I wanted to save seed from tomatoes this year that did well and taste great. With all the watering I’ve had to do I just didn’t find time to bag the blossoms. I seen many bumblebees on the tomato blossoms and fear they were cross pollinated. I know tomatoes are self pollinating, but do you think they could be cross pollinated? If so I will save seed next year. I’m thinking of going back to old varieties like Brandywine and oxheart that did well here anyways because many of the heirlooms were very cat faced and large green cores that there is a lot of waste. I haven’t liked any of the paste varieties as there is no flavor. I did like the texture and taste of Burpee’s Hybrid Bodacious and Steak Sandwich. Do you know why green shoulders and cores are formed? We had late frost which could contribute and the drought. However I seen catfacing and strange shapes in other videos where they did get rain. It’s that green core and shoulders that I really don’t like. My questions were not totally on topic, but a growing season is short and I guess I’m not into land racing because of time and effort that may/may not turn out. Maybe for those that have more time and energy. For me I need to know what I grow can be edible to our taste and preservation efforts. With the cost of everything, my garden produce I can’t gamble.
Saving seeds from a hybrid is not a bad thing. Genetically, you're likely to end up with plants close to the parents and somewhere in between. Plant enough, you could very easily end up with the taste you love, which you can then stabilize if that's the direction you choose to go.
I once wrapped a sungold flower so that there was no chance of cross pollination. (I tend to do this even with heirlooms.) When I planted the seeds, three plants were all slightly different. One was very much like parent but not quite as sweet. One was a little redder. One had tough skin. This year I purchased seed. If I had more room, I might consider experimenting. However, I also raise tropical fish. When strains of a species are mixed, they eventually revert to the parent wild type. I've seen this in live bearers like guppies. I've seen this in hybrid shrimp. That may also be happening with the squashes over the years. On the other hand, having a Cucurbita pepo adapted to one's local environment might be useful. (But what would it taste like?) How thick would the skin be?
I did the same with Sungold years ago and the resulting plants produced fruit of all colors and sizes. It will be interesting to see what happens to my squashes and what the answers will be.
the fish implies the wild genes are dominant and your originals had been bred for specific recessive genes i think. typically with hybrids the first gen offspring as very consistent as there is only 2 ways to combine the dna and they mostly mirror each other. but the second gen (f2) and beyond increases by the square, so f2 has 4 ways, f3 has 16, etc. sungold is an f1 so its consistent, but the f2 will have 2 that is similar and 1 that is almost the same as each parent. however recessive and dominant genes makes this more complex. i read on opensourceplantbreeding that they theorisrd sungold had some wild tomato genes hiding around in its ancestor which by a tiny change produces this special flavour that its copy ancestor doesnt have anymore, likely because its recessive.
if u do sungold again check the flower and see if the female bit sticks out past the male bit. this is the norm on wild species and has dissapeared in domestic toms.
Scott, I love the idea of growing that which is locally adapted, but I do wonder if the speed at which our climate is changing might be, as the British say, throwing a spanner in the works. Will you be doing videos on people's experiences dealing with climate change? I'm in central Delaware and it was not all that long ago that we had 30" of snow one winter. Now, I've been lucky to see a half inch.
It's such a big issue. Another benefit to adapting to your local conditions, is that you are also adapting to conditions as they change every year. And by selecting for the earliest, people can start to avoid the early free frosts or some of the other freak weather events. More diverse plants are actually also more resilient to all kinds of climate stress.
If a blackberry X a raspberry = a loganberry, people shouldn't think that's all it is, they made several attempts, saw how the plant grew, tasted them and then decided "This is the one!"
in the uk its hard to get access to any of josephs and that gangs stuff. im hoping if i just blend together a dozen or two good tasting toms ill get an ok pool. i think ill have to blend pimps or something into it to get real diversity though.
Just think twice before you grow gourds near your squash - it is possible that the next generation of squash might taste bitter. (Voice of experience.)
My parents have a 7 or 8 acre field they ignore, next year, I'm planning on trying 6 to 8 types of Landrace plots... Gonna let them go and repeat for a few years to see what I get.
Thank You Gardener Scott, I absolutely Love the Landrace Concept of gardening, I just started embracing this method on a small scale a few years ago and I love it. Your Explanation of landrace Gardening was perfect and I will now refer my friends and Family to this video to help them with understanding the basic Landrace concept. You have a way of explaining complicated topics in a clear, concise and relaxed way that makes it so easy to understand. I document my saved seeds with a photo and brief description of the fruit or vegetable I saved the seeds from. In This description I include Date harvested, Taste profile and color, and any other reason I saved it. I just attach the printed pic with the description to the seed envelope and store them in a dry cool place. I love that you mentioned to share seeds among, Friend, Neighbors and family in the area to increase the genetic stock you have, I do believe this is what gardening is all about; Friends, family, and Neighbors working together to feed, to share common interest and help each other however possible.. Thank You my friend for making this world a better place with your awesome UA-cam Videos..
I like how you're organizing. Thanks for the tip!😊
My Sungold did fine this tear. I had a double cherry I saved, but only got singles....😂😂😂
Years ago, I saved seeds from the Early Girl hybrid, just to see what I would get. The fruit was on the small side, and not very pretty. But boy, its taste was fabulous!
I have saved seeds from my Calendula for more than 17 years. I have a lot of variety in them. All orange, orange with dark middle, yellow, yellow with dark middle, and orange filled bloom and yellow filled bloom. I thought the latter two were gone but this year they popped up. I'm so thrilled I have saved all of this diversity in my garden. I'm considering adding to my genetics next year with some different-looking calendulas. Just for fun :D
I am attempting to landrace my vegetables. I am glad when they cross pollinate.
This is what I love about gardening. I learn every day. I have never heard of Landrace gardening. This is intriguing.
I just read Joseph Lofthouse's book on this a few weeks ago and have been thinking about how to start trying this in my small (50x100') garden. Thanks for addressing the concept!
Thanks for your videos, and spreading the knowledge.
This is very similar to how I garden. I am a bit of a chaos gardener but also I use the seeds from what I've grown to plant the next season. Some of my seeds are from several generations. I only provide water, deep mulch, and some pull and drop weeding or top dressing with cut grass, leaves, etc. Many of my plants come back on their own year after year such as tomatoes, watermelons, all kinds of squash, greens, etc. I'm zone 6 in the sw plains.
Squash vine borer takes out every squash I plant except a large pie pumpkin I got from a local farmers market. Been saving seeds for years now and they are the only ones that live long enough to produce.
They’re the worst! I’m going to cover things next year to prevent the moth from laying their eggs. At least it might delay the inevitable 🙄
@@emkn1479 good luck! I hope none overwinter in the soil nearby. And you’ll have to hand pollinate, but you might get more squash that way.
I saved black cherry tomato seeds from a grocery store variety pack. I suspect "Midnight Snack" variety. Year 1 with those seeds and they were exactly the black tomatoes as expected. Year 2 planting the seeds harvested from year 1, and both my plants turned out red cherries and don't have the characteristic star pattern on top. I guess it's a hybrid, but I'm surprised it worked out so well the first time.
With my "sungold" seeds that I harvest, they stay orange only ~50% of the time it seems, and maybe don't quite match the original flavor, but are still really good.
supposedly sun series has wild tomato "habrochiates" somewhere in its ancestry and its funny flavour comes from that old gene. have a look at the flowers and see if the female bit sticks outside/past the male bits
OMG this is great information. I moved all my cherry tomatoes away from one another this year because I had chocolate cherries and bumblebees that cross-pollinated into something of a hybrid pureed they both tasted delightful but I wanted the difference visually. I will try this next year and hopefully be successful thank you again for all your great information.
Great video as always Gardner Scott! I did this a few years ago with true potato seed (not seed potatoes). Now I have a variety that no one else in the world has. It's nothing special (it's a potato after all lol), but it is more or less adapted to my climate by now and a truly unique spud.
Learning so much. I hadn’t heard of land race gardening so this is fun to learn about
Thanks for all your great videos. I tried planting my tomatoes in larger containers and at the same depth this year, like your video. They were weeks ahead of everyone else in my gardening club this year. 👍
another great vlog made easy
unless youre gardening for money, i dont see the issue with cross pollination, just take what you end up with
Eccept with gourdes
Saving a pepper seed and finding out it's a hybrid is always exciting and a joy (as long as you don't get a hot pep you think isn't hot). I hope for hybrid peppers. Not as much for my tomatoes, don't wanna end up with red or yellow cherokee purples toms.
i cant get a hold of josephs promiscous toms due to border restrictions so im gonna try just breeding a dozen heirlooms together and trying to slowly eliminate bad genes accepting ill have a few each year.
Thanks for sharing man. Great video.
Very interesting. I'd never heard of this before.
Didnt know this happened but i have never saved seeds before from anything. Maybe i will give it a try.
When you find 'volunteer' plants growing in your garden or field -- those are the hardiest stock because they survived on their own so save seeds from them. What I've seen and done with Landrace: First year focus on the survivors, second year focus on heavy producers, third year focus on selecting which ones taste the best (those are likely to have the highest vitamin content). When you buy new seed, you are getting seeds that survived the seed producer's farming process (typically high fertilizer and chemicals) and thus they will struggle in a typical garden unless you match the techniques. I garden with no fertilizers nor chemicals and thus I'm forcing the plants to acclimate to the wild country.
That's a great approach.
I have giant garlic simply by selecting the best ones and replanting them every year. So big I often get asked if they are elephant garlic. Nope, just saved the seed from the original F1 parents. I want to hybridize my artichokes to Colorado climate. I'm saving green globe seeds and crossing them with a Colorado star. The best way to stabilize this hybrid once it grows is to keep planting F1, F2, and the hybrid until I find a plant that suites my growing needs. Super fun garden nerd stuff.
Absolutely fascinating thank you.
I’ve developed a particular version of landrace gardening. I have to deal with others who will not eat something different; they have a small group of things they eat. One nuanced difference and it’s off the table. I’m adding new vegetables and fruits to increase their range, also, if they try them.
I’m growing different species, so they won’t cross pollinate, and saving those seeds for next year. I try to get the crop to adapt to my climate, etc. but reusing the seeds but I introduce new seeds of that variety into the mix from other reputable sources to increase the genetic diversity. But, my goal is to be consistent with as many individuals contributing to the genetics.
My primary goal while developing the crops-and while things are available and affordable-is to save seeds regardless of how many items are produced. When a watermelon splits due to a three day rain after six weeks of drought, I gather the seeds for next year.
This is only a sliver of the landrace spectrum but I need to keep the family conflict to a minimum. Some people are spoiled because they’ve never seen bad times but I’m still trying to adapt everything.
I always learn something new from you! I didn't know there was an actual term for what I like doing anyway! That's freaking cool😊
As you know I'm trying all the things. My garden is always evolving and it's always under construction😂 I just now realized that we have pretty much the same growing conditions! "It's either hell or Antarctica around here!" Is one of my coined phrases.
My pattypan squash that I continue to get every year is so strong here! And it tastes awesome, so I keep saving the seeds so I hope that by the time I move I can take it with me and it'll grow the same again down in the Carolinas.
Having trouble understanding why If we can't save hybrid seeds to get the same plant, how is it possible that those seeds exist for us to buy? What are the seed companies doing that we can't do to get it to work?
The seed companies take two specific varieties and cross them to produce a specific hybrid fruit. We can do the same if we experiment and discover what the result is with specific plant combinations.
I'm always growing from collected seeds and allowing volunteers. I worry more creating weird or possibly harmful hybrids like dillXfennel, lettuceXwild lactucas or maybe worst carrotXhemlock, because the species border is porous (mule, beefalo, tiger muskie, etc). Probably this is ridiculous concern though.
can defo happen with hemlock but i think youd notice it since hemlock has a tiny crappy root. just check the local area within a few hundred meters and cut it out if you find any. difficult if its common tho.
@@OsirusHandle thanks!
Land race gardening is the way God Made Earth let them grow God Bless everyone
What delicata do you grow? It looks like a bush type.
It's the Honey Boat variety.
@@GardenerScott Thank you. I'll give it a try. I've been growing a vining type that didn't do well this year.
I wanted to save seed from tomatoes this year that did well and taste great. With all the watering I’ve had to do I just didn’t find time to bag the blossoms. I seen many bumblebees on the tomato blossoms and fear they were cross pollinated. I know tomatoes are self pollinating, but do you think they could be cross pollinated?
If so I will save seed next year. I’m thinking of going back to old varieties like Brandywine and oxheart that did well here anyways because many of the heirlooms were very cat faced and large green cores that there is a lot of waste. I haven’t liked any of the paste varieties as there is no flavor. I did like the texture and taste of Burpee’s Hybrid Bodacious and Steak Sandwich.
Do you know why green shoulders and cores are formed?
We had late frost which could contribute and the drought. However I seen catfacing and strange shapes in other videos where they did get rain. It’s that green core and shoulders that I really don’t like.
My questions were not totally on topic, but a growing season is short and I guess I’m not into land racing because of time and effort that may/may not turn out. Maybe for those that have more time and energy. For me I need to know what I grow can be edible to our taste and preservation efforts. With the cost of everything, my garden produce I can’t gamble.
The tough core is usually due to temperature fluctuations. The green shoulders are often due to high heat or direct sun.
I saved seeds from my sungold not realizing it was a hybrid. They came out ok, but i wont save them this time.
Saving seeds from a hybrid is not a bad thing. Genetically, you're likely to end up with plants close to the parents and somewhere in between. Plant enough, you could very easily end up with the taste you love, which you can then stabilize if that's the direction you choose to go.
I once wrapped a sungold flower so that there was no chance of cross pollination. (I tend to do this even with heirlooms.) When I planted the seeds, three plants were all slightly different. One was very much like parent but not quite as sweet. One was a little redder. One had tough skin. This year I purchased seed. If I had more room, I might consider experimenting.
However, I also raise tropical fish. When strains of a species are mixed, they eventually revert to the parent wild type. I've seen this in live bearers like guppies. I've seen this in hybrid shrimp. That may also be happening with the squashes over the years. On the other hand, having a Cucurbita pepo adapted to one's local environment might be useful. (But what would it taste like?) How thick would the skin be?
I did the same with Sungold years ago and the resulting plants produced fruit of all colors and sizes. It will be interesting to see what happens to my squashes and what the answers will be.
the fish implies the wild genes are dominant and your originals had been bred for specific recessive genes i think.
typically with hybrids the first gen offspring as very consistent as there is only 2 ways to combine the dna and they mostly mirror each other. but the second gen (f2) and beyond increases by the square, so f2 has 4 ways, f3 has 16, etc.
sungold is an f1 so its consistent, but the f2 will have 2 that is similar and 1 that is almost the same as each parent. however recessive and dominant genes makes this more complex.
i read on opensourceplantbreeding that they theorisrd sungold had some wild tomato genes hiding around in its ancestor which by a tiny change produces this special flavour that its copy ancestor doesnt have anymore, likely because its recessive.
if u do sungold again check the flower and see if the female bit sticks out past the male bit. this is the norm on wild species and has dissapeared in domestic toms.
Scott, I love the idea of growing that which is locally adapted, but I do wonder if the speed at which our climate is changing might be, as the British say, throwing a spanner in the works. Will you be doing videos on people's experiences dealing with climate change? I'm in central Delaware and it was not all that long ago that we had 30" of snow one winter. Now, I've been lucky to see a half inch.
I am planning future videos to discuss what others are experiencing.
It's such a big issue. Another benefit to adapting to your local conditions, is that you are also adapting to conditions as they change every year. And by selecting for the earliest, people can start to avoid the early free frosts or some of the other freak weather events. More diverse plants are actually also more resilient to all kinds of climate stress.
Because a modern landrace is so genetically diverse, it has far more capacity to adjust to changing conditions than most named varieties.
If a blackberry X a raspberry = a loganberry, people shouldn't think that's all it is, they made several attempts, saw how the plant grew, tasted them and then decided "This is the one!"
Yes, it can take hundreds of tries over many years to find "the one".
in the uk its hard to get access to any of josephs and that gangs stuff. im hoping if i just blend together a dozen or two good tasting toms ill get an ok pool. i think ill have to blend pimps or something into it to get real diversity though.
Just think twice before you grow gourds near your squash - it is possible that the next generation of squash might taste bitter. (Voice of experience.)