Yeah, I'm quite sure I read he got songwriting credits for it. Or he certainly could have sued. But no, I remember reading an interview long ago where he said they were more than happy to share songwriting credits with him. On listening to it now it makes a very nice acoustic song.
@@andreagiudici9256 exactly...his guitar style has incredibly fluid and emotional playing..the sadness and beauty of life all rolled into one...check out damien suil-crusading on youtube music and let me know what you think(if you like this style of playing)
Hats off to Anthony Phillips for writing the backbone of the song that got me hooked to Genesis, back in the day. I always thought it was Hackett's genius, I wish they gave Ant proper credit for this.
The Ban Man Yes I know, but the magic is all in here.. this is pure bliss. add Peter's (normally) fantastic vocals and a few keyboard + guitar details and you have a masterpiece
Actually, if I remember correctly, the band did give credit to Anthony Phillips for this song (along with 'Fountain of Salmacis' in Amando Gallo's book: 'Evolution of a rock band'.
I don’t know if this is accurate, but I read somewhere that at one point Phillips, Hackett and maybe even Gabriel sold their co-writing credits to Banks, Rutherford and Collins
This tune is called "F sharp" and can be found on "The Archive Collection, Vol. 1". It is really from 1969 but was initially NOT called "The Musical Box". But it contains the most important basic material. I think this is the first "demo" of a song that touched me emotional. On the current Wikipedia page of "Nursery Cryme" you can find that Anthony Phillips is credited in the song.
Hackett was very respectful of Ant's contributions, and I think even steered his own playing to fit within Ant's style to some extent, especially on Nursery Cryme. The unfortunate result is that people often overlook how important Ant was the the band and its sound, even years after his departure.
Well said. And it is cool that they became friends and fans of each other's work, a few years on. Another thing that makes the Genesis family truly unique...they all genuinely respect each other, and are also friends in most cases, after 50 years.
Actually, it was co-written by Ant and Mike (who were 17 & 18 respectively at the time) and the intro was written by Mike. Early Genesis consisted of two songwriting partnerships of which Peter and Tony were the more dominant (and competitive!)
What an incredible wall of beautiful sound Anthony could create on that 12 string. He was a master. Combined with Peter's voice, these were the hooks that made me love their music.
This is fantastic! I wish more credit was given to Ant for his contribution to what so many loved as the core "Genesis 12-string textures." It's a shame that his stage fright prevented him from moving on with the group and one can only wonder how the group's ultimate trajectory would have been altered if he'd stayed with them. Nothing against Steve, since I love Steve's work, but a sign of Ant's tremendous influence lasted all the way through "Trick Of the Tail." Ant, if you happen to follow threads like this, I hope you realize how appreciative so many Genesis fans like myself are for your tremendous contribution to the soundtrack of our lives.
Ron McGowan agree totally Ron. I posted almost exactly the same words as you elsewhere. Yes you can hear his influence all the way through. I’d love to see Steve and Ant collaborate could be amazing
@@rmartin7558 Actually he played on the first 2 albums - From Genesis to Revelation, and Trespass. The first had a totally different sound. Trespass was much more progressive sounding. Steve Hackett took over on their third album Nursery Cryme.
At 1:12 begins the section that Gabriel says he suggested, as he was getting into The Who at the time and he wanted some crashing guitars like Townsend. Love the pic with Chris Squire at the end.
+anklamer Phillips was the driving force and the most accomplished musician in the group, and all the band members have attested that it was the closest they came to breaking up. They didn't think they could continue without him.
I love all the members and recognize their unique contributions, without which there could be no Genesis , but I still think Ant and Banks are the soul of the band.
I keep coming back to this entry to Mr. Philip and countinue to be totally blown by it. I had the very good of fortune of seeing Mr. Hackett. The music will forever have a place in my heart. The flashbacks are much to intense for words as I gently soar to places unknown to the naked eye. Thanks guys.
Thanks for sharing this demo mauro rossi. Much praise and respect to Anthony Phillips for his outstanding contributions to Genesis as well as his wonderful solo efforts. Such an incredible composer/musician.
Anthony's a brilliant guitarist, even at a young age.I often wonder how Genesis would have developed as a musical entity,had he stayed in the band. .? .
Steve Hackett, interviewed in 2009 when Ant guested on SH's then-new album, postulated that he and Ant could've co-existed happily in the same band, as their guitar styles and competencies were quite different. I imagine Steve might've majored on the electric pyrotechnics, where Ant could have concentrated on the more acoustic textures... but that's mere conjecture and "what-iffery" :-)
Such a shame that he hated performing live as much as he did. I was not aware of this demo nor aware it was so early in his career. Shows all of his amazing talent and still just a kid when he wrote the Musical Box. No hate to Steve or Mike for trying to duplicate it, but only Anthony could play this that well. What a strange photo at the end. Squire! and the guy from Motely Crue?? 🤣🤣
Davvero emozionante, quest'uomo era (ed è tutt'ora) un genio musicale, basti pensare che i Genesis hanno usato idee sue fino a The Lamb......musicista davvero straordinario!!!!!!
You can really here his influence on Wind and witheringly and Trick of the tail. I even here a bit of Supertramp “even in the quietest moments” Ant is a gifted guitar player especially 12 string extraordinaire! And composer.
I wonder if Mr. Philips got any credit for writing such a beautiful song. He has remarkable talent and it's a damn shame he isn't remembered as one of the original Genesis band of original sound.
It's really weird to think about what kind of band Genesis would have been if they'd had a lead guitar player taking the glory instead of Banks. It would have been so different...
As much as I appreciate and enjoy Steve Hackett’s contributions to Genesis, I always wonder where the band would have gone if AP hadn’t left due to his illness.
I like the last picture of Ant with Chris Squire and David Lee Roth throwing up the "Westside" hand sign. (Just kidding - ha ha). Could it be Nick Beggs? Hmmm... In any case, who ever it is, he looks out of place with Steve, Ant, and Chris. Lol.
Last Picture in the video (2.41 min) Is that David Lee Roth on the left (from the perspective the youtubeviewer is watching it; I do recognise Chris Squire)
Can't figure out UA-cam involvent in Genesis titles. ...But we should examine that last drink..... Was it a double Tequila Sunrise, or a double Bloody Mary...? I get so confused on the doubles.....
This is Ant and Mike, they wrote this together. When Ant left, he let the band continue work on it together and it became The Musical Box, which the whole band contributed to.
@@maurofriuli It´s fantastic. Then Steve has such friendship with Ant Phillips though they didn´t know themselves in Genesis, since one was the replacement of the other. Mauro tu sei italiano?
Weren't all the songs back then credited to "Genesis"? Also I think they were playing a version of it live before Steve even joined but he did make some contributions to what eventually went on the record.
They often said "all titles done by all", but if you look at the releases, they were also generally broken down into "Gabriel/Banks/Hackett/Rutherford/Collins" even though some of the music had been written before Hackett and Collins had even joined.
Phillips worked on that music with Rutherford. It was never copyrighted, just a leftover bit that was never published or released. When Genesis was writing and rehearsing all sorts of bits were offered and assembled, including this one in The Musical Box. He and Mike were friends so perhaps he didn't mind. Maybe Mike asked and Ant said okay, no problem. The band was not rich in those days, but in debt, so it would be blood from a stone. When they made it big Ant COULD have sued, but again, they were friends and this was before the era of vindictive petty lawsuits. Or perhaps he did file a suit but it was thrown out or maybe he did get something in compensation? Anyway, all the old LPs were printed without his songwriting credit, so you can't recall all that to change it, and to have it listed differently on new printings would seem contradictory.
+jamescastelli Ant left the band because of his extreme stage fright. He was probably very embarrassed he couldn't continue and simply gave the band permission to continue without him without any restriction.
jamescastelli My guess is that Genesis probably rewarded him with some cash. Genesis as far as I know never resorted to lawsuits amongst members and exmembers. Look at the generosity of the band when Gabriel was in debt after his first WOMAD in 1982. The six of the best show no less.
Wow - I'm speechless! What a wonderful discovery (love that Trespassy bit from 1:02-1:12). Speaking as one who knows, I'd say you could only write something of this inherent sadness and desperation if you had suffered your way through an English boarding school in the 60s or 70s. Of course they had it worse than we did because they couldn't listen to early Genesis records to get them through the experience! To think what might have been if Ant had stayed and they'd simply added Steve Hackett to become a six-piece band!
This isn't an Ant Phillips demo. It's from a whole-band project, four songs recorded by the band in 1970, recorded by the BBC for a (never produced) documentary. All four tracks are incredible.
ok but it is a development of a track of genesis 1st album, and as usual, the composition rounded on a ant phillips proposal, so this is the 1st shape of the musical box, and therefore analog to a demo
Its a toss up really weather Ant or Steve is the better guitarist. I think Steve has it on electric guitar, and Ant has it on accoustic. But its bloody close! Best guitarist in the world? Three way tie, between Ant, Steve, and David Gilmour. Plenty of great guitarists out there, but those three have something extra.
![Anthony Phillips/Genesis - F Sharp Part 1 and 2 [The Musical Box Demo 1969]](/img/n.gif)
Sounds like he basically wrote the entire, crucial, skeleton of the song to me. This is incredible.
Yeah, I'm quite sure I read he got songwriting credits for it. Or he certainly could have sued. But no, I remember reading an interview long ago where he said they were more than happy to share songwriting credits with him. On listening to it now it makes a very nice acoustic song.
What a amazing underrated musician. God bless him. 🙌
there is more emotional feeling in 20 seconds of anthony's playing than in five or ten albums worth of so called modern 'artists'
Well Said and No Doubt there would be pandemonium if Auto-Tune suddenly disappeared from Earth.
Agreed
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤o my God !!!!! Trespass & Nursery Cryme Atmosphere
@@andreagiudici9256 exactly...his guitar style has incredibly fluid and emotional playing..the sadness and beauty of life all rolled into one...check out damien suil-crusading on youtube music and let me know what you think(if you like this style of playing)
Hats off to Anthony Phillips for writing the backbone of the song that got me hooked to Genesis, back in the day. I always thought it was Hackett's genius, I wish they gave Ant proper credit for this.
There's bits of Phillips, Hackett, Rutherford, even Tony Banks' and the elusive Mick Barnard's guitar work in the final composition!
The Ban Man Yes I know, but the magic is all in here.. this is pure bliss. add Peter's (normally) fantastic vocals and a few keyboard + guitar details and you have a masterpiece
Actually, if I remember correctly, the band did give credit to Anthony Phillips for this song (along with 'Fountain of Salmacis' in Amando Gallo's book: 'Evolution of a rock band'.
If I remember correctly, I think Phillips also has the sole songwriting credit for Twilight Alehouse, though I could be wrong.
I don’t know if this is accurate, but I read somewhere that at one point Phillips, Hackett and maybe even Gabriel sold their co-writing credits to Banks, Rutherford and Collins
He should have been credited on Nursery Chryme for this.
This tune is called "F sharp" and can be found on "The Archive Collection, Vol. 1". It is really from 1969 but was initially NOT called "The Musical Box". But it contains the most important basic material. I think this is the first "demo" of a song that touched me emotional. On the current Wikipedia page of "Nursery Cryme" you can find that Anthony Phillips is credited in the song.
and about time too!
@@damiensuil2183 What do you mean?
@@stevewilson20 that comment was replying to someone elses comment steve..i've no idea why it got sent to you
@@damiensuil2183 understand
Hackett was very respectful of Ant's contributions, and I think even steered his own playing to fit within Ant's style to some extent, especially on Nursery Cryme. The unfortunate result is that people often overlook how important Ant was the the band and its sound, even years after his departure.
He sure was which is why he had Anthony guest on his own album.
Well said. And it is cool that they became friends and fans of each other's work, a few years on. Another thing that makes the Genesis family truly unique...they all genuinely respect each other, and are also friends in most cases, after 50 years.
Actually, it was co-written by Ant and Mike (who were 17 & 18 respectively at the time) and the intro was written by Mike. Early Genesis consisted of two songwriting partnerships of which Peter and Tony were the more dominant (and competitive!)
What an incredible wall of beautiful sound Anthony could create on that 12 string. He was a master. Combined with Peter's voice, these were the hooks that made me love their music.
You can see he was the early sound of Genesis, more so than Banks.
If you're fond of "The Geese and The Ghost" work, you can really hear the fundamental similarities between Ant's music and the early Genesis sound.
So, The Musical Box was primarily his composition and he never got any credit for such a achievement?!!
This is fantastic! I wish more credit was given to Ant for his contribution to what so many loved as the core "Genesis 12-string textures." It's a shame that his stage fright prevented him from moving on with the group and one can only wonder how the group's ultimate trajectory would have been altered if he'd stayed with them. Nothing against Steve, since I love Steve's work, but a sign of Ant's tremendous influence lasted all the way through "Trick Of the Tail."
Ant, if you happen to follow threads like this, I hope you realize how appreciative so many Genesis fans like myself are for your tremendous contribution to the soundtrack of our lives.
Ron McGowan agree totally Ron. I posted almost exactly the same words as you elsewhere. Yes you can hear his influence all the way through. I’d love to see Steve and Ant collaborate could be amazing
Greatest musical loss Genesis ever suffered.
He did only play on one record. So I guess he contributed to that.
@@rmartin7558 no, he played on two. From Genesis to Revelation and Trespass.
@@rmartin7558 Actually he played on the first 2 albums - From Genesis to Revelation, and Trespass. The first had a totally different sound. Trespass was much more progressive sounding. Steve Hackett took over on their third album Nursery Cryme.
There isn't a soul on Earth who I'd rather hear play 12 string guitar than Anthony Phillips. Masterful.
how true
At 1:12 begins the section that Gabriel says he suggested, as he was getting into The Who at the time and he wanted some crashing guitars like Townsend. Love the pic with Chris Squire at the end.
the romantic genius of the origional genesis sound
I didnd't know Antony was part of this master piece. For my first time, thanks Mr. Philipps for your contribution to this song.
The essence of Anthony P. in a great song
so this is where it all came from! took me 30 yrs to find out that ant was the driving force behind all those magical 'old england' tunes...
+anklamer Phillips was the driving force and the most accomplished musician in the group, and all the band members have attested that it was the closest they came to breaking up. They didn't think they could continue without him.
You
I love all the members and recognize their unique contributions, without which there could be no Genesis , but I still think Ant and Banks are the soul of the band.
Amazing piece of work I wish I had a copy.
when you discover that one of the best songs of your favorite band did not write it who you would have imagined 😲
I keep coming back to this entry to Mr. Philip and countinue to be totally blown by it. I had the very good of fortune of seeing Mr. Hackett. The music will forever have a place in my heart. The flashbacks are much to intense for words as I gently soar to places unknown to the naked eye. Thanks guys.
Thanks for sharing this demo mauro rossi. Much praise and respect to Anthony Phillips for his outstanding contributions to Genesis as well as his wonderful solo efforts. Such an incredible composer/musician.
If I remember correctly, Ant wasn't even credited for his contribution. He should receive half of the royalties originating from the song.
Half of what?
If the song had been a radio hit he might’ve made money in royalties had he been given credit.
The album has only sold 66,000 copies.
The musical box captivating and magical to this day.
You can see where Mike Rutherford took his clothes/beard/style influence from . Yes , I do know Ant and Mike were very close friends at Charterhouse.
I absolutely love it!
è fantastica questa versione *-*
So beautiful. Great composition.
so talented...so wonderful...
Beautiful... just... mindblown. I love The Musical Box so much
Beautiful song, great, delicate guitarist!👍👍
Anthony's a brilliant guitarist, even at a young age.I often wonder how Genesis would have developed as a musical entity,had he stayed in the band. .? .
he left a lasting mark on the genesis 12 string guitar trademark sound
Steve Hackett, interviewed in 2009 when Ant guested on SH's then-new album, postulated that he and Ant could've co-existed happily in the same band, as their guitar styles and competencies were quite different. I imagine Steve might've majored on the electric pyrotechnics, where Ant could have concentrated on the more acoustic textures... but that's mere conjecture and "what-iffery" :-)
*****
What a great 'if!' Surely would have been worth a listen...
Interestingly, "what if" never happened and the way things turned out, well that was meant to be. Ant came and went and he lived with it, like we did.
Wow, I can really hear those "Genesis" chords and changes. Hat's off.
Not just an idea, pretty much the whole structure is there!
Thank you so much for sharing this!! I wouldn't have ever guessed Ant wrote the base for one of Genesis' most monumental songs... after he left!
Beautiful and interesting to imagine the song at this much faster tempo in the intro and first verse.
So smooth and lyrical. Love it.
Thank you Anthony ❤️
That’s truly wonderful !!!
Absolutely Beautiful !!!
Such a shame that he hated performing live as much as he did. I was not aware of this demo nor aware it was so early in his career. Shows all of his amazing talent and still just a kid when he wrote the Musical Box. No hate to Steve or Mike for trying to duplicate it, but only Anthony could play this that well. What a strange photo at the end. Squire! and the guy from Motely Crue?? 🤣🤣
génial : on reconnait tous les morceaux de Musical Box !!!
When I think of 12 string guitar arpeggios I think Anthony Phillips. Such an important integral part of early Genesis success
Some genius had to be behind this great song. Like Phillips and Gabriel!
Unbelieveable!!!!! Thanks!!!!!
Davvero emozionante, quest'uomo era (ed è tutt'ora) un genio musicale, basti pensare che i Genesis hanno usato idee sue fino a The Lamb......musicista davvero straordinario!!!!!!
You can really here his influence on Wind and witheringly and Trick of the tail. I even here a bit of Supertramp “even in the quietest moments” Ant is a gifted guitar player especially 12 string extraordinaire! And composer.
I wonder if Mr. Philips got any credit for writing such a beautiful song. He has remarkable talent and it's a damn shame he isn't remembered as one of the original Genesis band of original sound.
Mythical demo that he played together with Rutherford.
Magnífico!
Absolutely superb
It's really weird to think about what kind of band Genesis would have been if they'd had a lead guitar player taking the glory instead of Banks. It would have been so different...
¡Bellísimo y fantástico!
As much as I appreciate and enjoy Steve Hackett’s contributions to Genesis, I always wonder where the band would have gone if AP hadn’t left due to his illness.
Best find of 2021 !!!!
wow ...merci from Québec
Magnifico! grazie
It's great how thick the overtones and ambience are underneath it all. Sounds almost like an actual string section
Left to right,
Nick Beggs, Steve Hackett, Jo Hackett, Ant and Chris....,
Is it Steve's wife on the left.
No, that is Nick Beggs, he plays live gigs with Steve...bass and chapman stick. Jo is in the middle.
I can listen to this All Day.
Blimey! Thanks for posting.
This is a gem! :-)
No wonder the others nearly called it quits after he left. They've all admitted he was the most important member of the band up to that point.
Stunning!
Wow this is a gem...ty
Wow, that final image.
Ah, so this must be the demo tapes Ant was talking about in that interview...
Genius.
Love that pic of Ant with Chris Squire.
demo o no... per me è stupenda...
I like the last picture of Ant with Chris Squire and David Lee Roth throwing up the "Westside" hand sign. (Just kidding - ha ha). Could it be Nick Beggs? Hmmm... In any case, who ever it is, he looks out of place with Steve, Ant, and Chris. Lol.
Yes, he Is Nick Beggs, at the marriage of Steve Hackett!
Last Picture in the video (2.41 min) Is that David Lee Roth on the left (from the perspective the youtubeviewer is watching it; I do recognise Chris Squire)
Can't figure out UA-cam involvent in Genesis titles. ...But we should examine that last drink..... Was it a double Tequila Sunrise, or a double Bloody Mary...? I get so confused on the doubles.....
This is Ant and Mike, they wrote this together. When Ant left, he let the band continue work on it together and it became The Musical Box, which the whole band contributed to.
The last protograph of the video is Hackett, Ant Phillips and: Chris Squire?
Yes. It's the wedding of Steve
@@maurofriuli It´s fantastic. Then Steve has such friendship with Ant Phillips though they didn´t know themselves in Genesis, since one was the replacement of the other. Mauro tu sei italiano?
@@Vicente.Panuccio si sono un fan italiano di Ant, Steve e della buona musica in genere
@@maurofriuli Io sono un italiano che parla in spagnol.
Does anyone know why Phillips never got a credit share for Musical Box ?
+Klaus Sgroi That is exactly what I would like to know!
+Klaus Sgroi I wonder the same...
Weren't all the songs back then credited to "Genesis"? Also I think they were playing a version of it live before Steve even joined but he did make some contributions to what eventually went on the record.
They often said "all titles done by all", but if you look at the releases, they were also generally broken down into "Gabriel/Banks/Hackett/Rutherford/Collins" even though some of the music had been written before Hackett and Collins had even joined.
I've heard he left Genesis in 1970 due to stage fright.
Grande Hackett che ha dato tantissimo, ma perdere Anthony ha tolto qualcosa ai Genesis
Phillips ha la sua impronta nel migliori album dei Genesis ossia Trespass e Nursery Crime!
Thanks!
I wonder why he never received composer credit for The Musical Box, then.
Phillips worked on that music with Rutherford. It was never copyrighted, just a leftover bit that was never published or released. When Genesis was writing and rehearsing all sorts of bits were offered and assembled, including this one in The Musical Box. He and Mike were friends so perhaps he didn't mind. Maybe Mike asked and Ant said okay, no problem. The band was not rich in those days, but in debt, so it would be blood from a stone. When they made it big Ant COULD have sued, but again, they were friends and this was before the era of vindictive petty lawsuits. Or perhaps he did file a suit but it was thrown out or maybe he did get something in compensation? Anyway, all the old LPs were printed without his songwriting credit, so you can't recall all that to change it, and to have it listed differently on new printings would seem contradictory.
+jamescastelli Ant left the band because of his extreme stage fright. He was probably very embarrassed he couldn't continue and simply gave the band permission to continue without him without any restriction.
Fortunately today there is youtube, so people can know it,
Time puts everything in place :)
jamescastelli My guess is that Genesis probably rewarded him with some cash. Genesis as far as I know never resorted to lawsuits amongst members and exmembers. Look at the generosity of the band when Gabriel was in debt after his first WOMAD in 1982. The six of the best show no less.
"one of those strange revelations.... I was terribly limited" What the fuck?!?!
Stunning.
Is that Chris Squire standing next to Ant in the last pic?
+The Purplewolfhound Yes thats Chris
+The Purplewolfhound I m prety shure he is and hacette too ...
Picture from Steve and Jo’s wedding. Nick Beggs is on the left.
So moving ❗❗🎵🎶❤❤❤🎵🎶🎶🎶
Magical . . .
Wow - I'm speechless! What a wonderful discovery (love that Trespassy bit from 1:02-1:12). Speaking as one who knows, I'd say you could only write something of this inherent sadness and desperation if you had suffered your way through an English boarding school in the 60s or 70s. Of course they had it worse than we did because they couldn't listen to early Genesis records to get them through the experience!
To think what might have been if Ant had stayed and they'd simply added Steve Hackett to become a six-piece band!
What a thought, but Tony couldn't live with one great guitarist in the band, let alone two...........
adoro quest'uomo
brilliant
Has anyone asked Ant if this is him in 1969.
It’s a shame Ant didn’t get writing cred for this song on Nursery Cryme. Or was there an agreement?
There's a second guitar in there. Is that Mike Rutherford?
Might be. But it can be recorded and cut just only by Phillips.
Surely unfair, to say the least, the Phillips was not credited on Nusery Cryme.
he looks a little bit like mike rutherford with beard
Wayavas1337 that's just what I was thinking
1:41 honestly couldn't tell if that was Mike or anthony at first
Why this wasn't mentioned more in the past
amazing
Brilliant
WOW!!!!
This isn't an Ant Phillips demo. It's from a whole-band project, four songs recorded by the band in 1970, recorded by the BBC for a (never produced) documentary. All four tracks are incredible.
ok but it is a development of a track of genesis 1st album, and as usual, the composition rounded on a ant phillips proposal, so this is the 1st shape of the musical box, and therefore analog to a demo
@Nelson Robert Willis This is the full band. No Barnard obviously.
I think if that acoustic strumming had been just a bit 'harder' then I would prefer this to the electric version. Or maybe if it had the drums on it.
Jamás tuvo crédito como compositor. Ni siquiera se lo mencionó en Wikipedia
Is this demo available anywhere commercially?
You can find this song in the compilation "The Archive Collection Volume One" from the year 1998
Its a toss up really weather Ant or Steve is the better guitarist.
I think Steve has it on electric guitar, and Ant has it on accoustic.
But its bloody close!
Best guitarist in the world?
Three way tie, between Ant, Steve, and David Gilmour.
Plenty of great guitarists out there, but those three have something extra.