For any self driven business you should do it for the love of it. Life is a roller coaster, each new level is scarier than the next. Our desires to succeed doesn’t stop us from being on the food chain. A simple no and business planning separates us from the rest
This is so true we are destroying each others changes. Unfortunately people don't see photography as a "real" job. It is actually pretty offensive if you're asking someone to photograph you for free. It's like asking your hairdresser to do it for free. You see?? Its weird
Although there are so many competitor in Photography business, many people who can´t shot that well but say they´re photographers, I think these people destroy it at the most. Nowadays almost everybody has smartphones, so yes.
@@wladynosz1565 exactly and ofcourse they don't have to pay for their gear as much as the real photographers do. So they also don't care to do it for free.
@@wladynosz1565 the problem is also in that kind of people that do not understand that quality is more important than the price. For example when someone wants photos for a marriage he does not say "okay man, let me see some of your works", in the majority of the cases he would say "Okay man, what's the price?"
yet they'll do it for art, personal trainers, photographers, and paintings. like I spent $200 just to get the materiels to paint alone. why would I just give that to you for free. you gotta charge per hour on the paintings and then also charge cost of materiels used and people dont seem to understand that. (I'm also an artist on top of yoga instructing.)
The problem is, individuals, companies and organisations who nees this type of work done, don't care to get "the professional" aka. "the best," they would rather have "good enough" work done for them, for free, that is good enough to sell or peomote themselves or their products or simply grant them exposure - If "good enough" work sells their product or grants them a lot of exposure, then there's no need for professional grade aka. top quality work... And the problem is that people who do "good enough" work, will often do it for free, to gain exposure or experience themselves.
You nailed the bait right there at 02:01 getting those "great opportunities" from fashion coordinators, radio stations (putting on a party), convention centers hosting auto-shows, etc... they make contact as if they are wanting to hire you. Then, as the conversation continues they cite how much money "exposure like this" is worth? Well, to me, it's worth nothing since my schedule is full and I'm booking into 2020. I do enjoy seeing who actually covered the event and they don't realize that it simply says that they are not getting enough work, and that can backfire. Once they have done it for FREE, that is their category... think about it. What about your clients who have paid your full price? What message did you send to them when they learn that you did someone else's images FREE? You just won't last, just my opinion, unless it's a strong charity or worthy cause, everyone should be paying you on the same scale without concessions for "exposure". Side note - when you do photography for charity, GIVE them the work and keep your name out of it, true charity is anonymous.
I have had a family friend want me to shoot a cook book for them... I said yes and here would be my price.... they instantly say no and said they have an iphone that can do the same thing XD .. Needless to say the cookbook never happened with a publisher due to the quality of there shots :D
I found a good way for how to make the shoots for free and make money out of it without them to pay. If they ask me to do it for free, I say OK, but I say that I keep the rights to all the photos and all models needs to sign the release form. This way I can sell the photos to anyone else, re-use them or do anything I like with them. Also the free package for them will contain only the medium resolution, so they could "barely" use it for the main purpose and they would have to pay if they want the high resolution images and full edits on them. You can even specify on the deal, how many shoots you can do for free and charge them more if they want "all of it". Finally if you feel that the job is for a big project and they just using you or are acting like a dick, sign the deal, go on the shoot and start taking pictures with your phone. If they ask you why you do it with your phone, you can say that they they have to rent the gear if they want you to use it and that they can rent it from you. Just make sure the contract they sign doesn't specify your gear. A good rate for gear rental is 10% of it's market value, which is enough for you to get a nice pay from the job, and for them in most cases it's not worth to waste a full day to make the session again or they might not even have an option like this. In other words, if you have free time, never take down the job, just think on how you can profit from it without getting paid directly for the main job.
OMG, this is wise. You f*** greedy clients, you f*** complaining photographers losing their opportunities. You f*** them all and win. Free photographs will ever be available however loud professional protographers would cry. You just adapt and play the game. Good job!
You're so right. It's also true for other art mediums where people(people I know, who should be supporting me as an artist, family members) expect me to create an illustration for free. The moment I named my prices based on how many hours I work on an illustration, and how much I MYSELF PAY for Adobe, people stop requesting work. It's such a shame how society thinks artists could just work for free.
I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MUCH I AGREE WITH YOU! As an Influencer and photographer, I can't tell you how many brands ask for not only free work, but for an outrageous amount of deliverables/duties. The amount of hours I spend educating myself, working hard to afford quality gear, mapping out and brainstorming how to capture a brand's message and aesthetic but through my own aesthetic, doing the actual photoshoot, then editing, then...etc. It's a none stop process! And it upsets me so much when Influencers and photographers use the excuse of "I don't know how much to charge" or "I don't want to deal with contracts" or "I'm not that serious about it"... if that's really the case, ask for $20! To at least give yourself some worth as well as all the other creators in our field. I stand my ground when it comes to companies who "want to work with me because I'm the perfect fit" but "don't have a budget". And it's shocking the switch of tone in the emails when I bring up that I charge for what I do. Like.. you get paid to reach out to Influencers to make a successful campaign, what's makes you think we don't deserve to get paid for all the hard work we're doing for your brand's monetary benefit? End rant.. I could go on but just had to get those things out. Moral of the story: YOU HAVE VALUE. So stand up to it and demand to be respected and valued for your talent, time, and hard work.
What drives me crazy is that i do a photoshoot for free and then they'll boss me around and demand the pictures as soon as possible as if i'm working for them!! Or they would be like: give me the raw photos it's fine i'll put a filter. (If it is that easy i would've slapped a filter on them 🤦🏻♂️)
So true, but I correct them and tell them my terms if I decide to do a free shoot. It has to be something we both benefit from, and I get them to sign a release, stating if they want to own the images, they would have to pay for them, and I pick a few images to give them, never giving them all the images. So my shoot maybe free but not my retouching and additional images, need to be paid for and they will never get unedited images once again unless they pay for the batch of images. They feel they can get away with free everything, not with me, my friends:)
@@shaft5515chase do you by chance have a general template for a release? I started doing headshots as a side hustle and I've worked with a few people who are just downright rude and disrespectful.
Not even going to lie. As a photog, I'm guilty of this... and it led to a real deep depression when I stopped making any money at all. You can't just charge some people and then work with some people for free. It's really up to us to collectively decide to put our feet down and demand to be treated the same as everyone else and be paid for our work. At this point, we're just letting people rob us and then giving them extra money as well. We deserve to get paid just like everyone else. You don't walk into a lawyer's office and offer them "exposure" as a form of payment, you'd be laughed out of the building. Can you imagine if we didn't have platforms like youtube or Instagram?? Maybe we would still get paid, but at the same time we also wouldn't reach as many people... such a struggle. Glad you addressed this girly ~ AMEN KEEP PREACHING.
This is a bad example because there are actually lawyers who do take cases just because of the publicity. This not only happens in the real world but in tv shows like SVU. Just depends on how big the case is and if the publicity of winning that big case could launch their career.
Pareil, les graphistes qui bossent gratos se rendent pas compte à quel point ils dévaluent la profession. Le pire ça reste quand même les clients qui osent débarquer avec un "ça te fera un peu de pub"............ 😩 euh non merçi, ça va aller, moi aussi j'ai des factures et un loyer à payer tu sais.
Honestly, know the feeling. It's that way for almost any form of art. Only time I do anything regarding photography is for what's called photogrammetry for game dev. Photogrammetry is the art of making a high detailed model from several different pictures. Can sometimes have over a thousand pictures of one object to ensure you capture it correctly to ensure that the model comes out solid model with no holes. After that I still have to do a lot of work to ensure that the model is usable in a game engine. I also do digital sculpting and poly modeling (traditional 3d modeling), and texture work as well, which takes even more time than if I did the photogrammetry route. This last week I got a email from somebody that saw my portfolio. They wanted me to model game objects for them and possibly entire rooms to a military style bunker w/o even being willing to pay me for it. Was told that it would be good for exposure and that they had 6 ppl already doing it. I have software licenses that I have to renew each year, cost of computer upgrades to be able to use the latest tools/game engines so that I can stay competitive, cost of my camera gear that I use for photogrammetry (if I end up needing to use it) and that's not counting any bills that I have. I agree with you that it sucks that ppl expect a lot of work to be done for free and it sucks even more that ppl are willing to do stuff like that for free because it ruins it for everybody.
I just started doing photography as a business and I'm starting out real cheap but believe me, I've been doing photography for a while. My rate right now is actually $35 for an hour shoot. I had an instance recently where I did a photoshoot for someone and sent them 35 Edited Photos (Photoshop/Lightroom). I spent maybe 4-5 hours editing the photos. The guy said he loved them, and then asked for 10 more photos to be edited. Me being the kind person I am, said I would do it because I want the person to be happy. Also, I seen that the person is nice and seems to value my time. Little bit down the road, the person gives me $35 flat .. and then 10 minutes later his conviction hit him and he gave me a $5 tip. I never felt more disrespected. I usually "say" 35 but people give me 50+ easily because I edit a lot of photos for them and spend extra time shooting with them.They understand I want them to happy and I'm not just going it for the money aspect. Anyways, as a result of this experience, I began to be more straight up with my prices driving them up higher, and honestly I don't like it because it takes away from my love of photography and just generally making people happy. However, people just don't seem to value or understand the time put into photography. It takes hours just to shoot, sift through the photos, edit them, and upload/share the photos with them. They think it's a simple click of a button. Just some food for thought ... :(((
THANK YOU!!! I've been struggling to find clients that will actually pay! I did a free photoshoot for a friend, and now everyone expects me to to it for free every time. its not okay. so thank you :)
I get asked maybe 3 or 4 times a week to do a free shoot in exchange for promotion. I usually have 10x the followers they have. In reality they would be the one benefiting from tagging me in the photo. I usually only do free work if it’s a friend or someone who I believe I can create something special with. I never do unpaid commercial work, a 14 year old girl wrote to me Instagram and asked me how she can take a photo of herself that looks like I took it as she loved my style. She said she works a few hours a week and could never afford a professional shoot but really wanted a nice photo to give her grandmother as a gift for her birthday ( she had very close relationship with her ) I did a 4 hour shoot with her for free and edited 20 photos from the shoot. We met up again a few weeks later and I gave her the photos on a flash drive aswell as an old D3100 camera and lens I had in storage from when I first started and spent another couple of hours giving her a crash course in photography. She sends me every edited photo she takes and I give her feedback on them. My wife ( model ) is also working with her giving advice on poses and styling shoots. No money has ever exchanged hands but when you see how much pride and passion you can give someone by donating a few hours time, it’s worth it.
totally relate to that!! too many kids out there, daddy paying a Sony camera for em' and changed their description on Instagram (content creator) and shoots for free and just post stories ( SHOOTING). real photographers gets the backlash and clients expect that everyone will do it for free!!!!
too many kids out there, daddy paying a Sony camera for em' and changed their description on Instagram (content creator) and shoots for $10000 per hour clients expect that photography is so hard and so important so it's insult to pay them less than $100000000!!!!
everyone needs to see this.. in the city I live in Brazil, photography and videography is the most devalued art-form there is. Fully dedicating myself to the craft for the past 3-4 years and having others who are just starting out always offering themselves for free, and seeing the work that they put out which is literally a copy and paste preset that makes everyone look like aliens with dreadful skintones and terrible color patterns really hurts those who have been grinding to really get their name and work out there. It can get kinda discouraging sometimes but I’ve recently used it to better my work even more. I’ve been using it to push myself further so I can make it my duty to stand out above all. Desire it more than the “competition” so the clients will have no choice but to make you the 1 and only option.
Omg, that's so true! Every time I hear "what's hard in being photographer?" or "you are tired? because what? because you took a few portraits and then edit them in home in your pyjama with cup of tea?" I'm really angry to hear that, I really don't like to be unappreciated for my job. People thinks we have simple and good life because we are sitting in front of computer all day in houses and we don't need to get up at 6 am to office. My home is my office. I start my job at 8 am and I work all day, sometimes all night, because every thing I do is related to my work, even stupid viewing instagram. And I love photography because first of all - this is my bigest passion. So I want to be appreciated and I want to get paid for my work 24/7.
This is SO true. The amount of times I've been asked or demanded to do Free Work. Not only are Clients killing the Industry, but people who accept free work are killing it too. People don't see Photography or Videography as a real Job. It IS a real Job. Not everybody can do it.
The question I hate the most is when someone writes me is “what is your rate” or “how much do you charge”? No point of reference, no backstory or info on why there contacting, just what I charge. “How can I give you proper rate if I don’t know what the job is”
Photographers arent destroying it. The market is changing. Photography is getting easier and easier. Information is spreading and the market is becoming saturated. Honestly, UA-camrs giving tutorials are more of the problem than photographers giving free shoots. Think about this: 30 years ago, there were very few photographers making a living from it. Now anyone can do it. Photography teachers, YTers, etc. are the ones that are replacing "professional" photographers and event photographers are being commoditized. Taking pictures is a low skill labor, theres no barrier to entry and anyone can do it. Sure there is a hierarchy but to Jane Smith uploading to IG, they dont care. We cant just hope that things change, we have to adapt and find new ways to monetize it(like you have Jess).
my style attracts a different crowd which are rappers. it sucks because it's even worse in that community "yeah ight i'll hit u up about payment when i get paid in 2 weeks" never hits me up again or never pays me. or they'll have their friend or cousin do the work for free using their phone..
I understand and agree with your point, for the most part. i think for your first few shoots as a photographer it's okay doing it for free because you don't really know what you're doing, but then start introducing the cost after a bit of experience. if you're a surgeon, for example, then you have to train for years before you start getting paid. but i do agree that i think clients take advantage of photographers and we should be asking to get paid for more things than we do
Ugh, I had a great opportunity to work with a group that had several events during the year and I took this job because I knew there was no question it would lead to other shoots as the president was already talking long term without me even doing one shoot. The catch was the low pay. I was so young and dumb in the game at the time, I took the job. I got paid a fourth of what I should have and when my time was up, they wanted more and more pictures to the point where it ran over a full hour and a half. Then they wanted photoshop and I was yes, yes (for free). I took one more event and it was ridiculous what all they wanted for pennies. There was no one to blame but myself and my total lack of experience in understanding my worth. They called me for another job, clearly so happy and eager because they were getting the world for basically nothing, and I ghosted so hard. Over the next several years even though I began charging what I was worth with other clients, I got so sick of explaining this worth to people constantly telling me, well I have a cousin with an iPhone that could do it if that's the cost (then why did you call me? My base price was no secret), or their friend's photographer did it for half the cost, or do you think you can give me a discount, that I literally left the photography business altogether and started another business where there is no ambiguity on anyones part as to cost and worth. It doesn't matter if the majority of photographers start demanding shoots at cost because there will always be someone who will do it for free or who is just young and didn't know like I was, or the classic "needing to build a portfolio." No one wants to pay, but they want those shots everyone sees online---trust and believe, these aren't your cousin on an iphone! Good luck to all the photographers still chugging away and fighting the good fight.
When I first started my business, no one wanted to step in front of my camera, I think because I didn’t have content to show my skills. Many times I was cancelled on the day of or day before on some sessions too...but I kept going. I don’t think beginners realize that free sessions impact all of us in the industry. So maybe creating a video suggesting ways to help build your portfolio to new photographers without having to do it for free will be a little more helpful. For example, finding the right Facebook group to announce you building your portfolio even for a small price. I just am slightly new and remember having no idea where or how to start. Anyways I am a big fan of your work and really love all of your videos. But yes, if you’re good at something, never do it for free.
"The wolf eats the sheep" - this was a line from a movie called -Training Day (Denzel Washington). You make good points but a person needs a portfolio and experience and the opportunity to work will at some point pay itself back. When I first started doing photography I shot two bands and two weddings for free. The amount of experience I gained was priceless along with making connections etc, and after that I basically never did work for free again with exception of making stock file and resources for others free. Long term thinking is the wolf, short term is the sheep. Opportunity can't be bought and connections are priceless. Experience is necessary and competition in the market is truth. A person starts at the bottom, not the top. So for everything there is a price on both ends of the deal.
(1) Potential clients who are willing to accept free work from hobbyists as "good enough" were NEVER actually potential clients to begin with. You have to understand that, it was just an illusion. Or wishful thinking on your part. (2) For actual clients who do understand the value of professional work you have to make damn sure that your work is much, much better than what the free hobbyists provide. There is no way around that. And in addition to creating better work you have to also provide an overall total professional experience outside of the pictures. Unfortunately technology and computational photography has drastically lowered standards.
Professional Illustrator/Graphic Designer here. Thank you for posting this. You're saying the exact same things I've been complaining about for decades. I've seen the downfall of the creative industry in real time, and it's ALL our fault. We allowed this. We undercharge, we let cheapskates take advantage of us and we rarely demand a non-refundable deposit. Artists are quick to grumble about people asking for free or insultingly cheap work, when the anger needs to be directed at our peers for allowing it to get this bad.
It's not just photography. The visual effects and animation industry are hiring people at low wages and overworking them to get the films made. People are working 80 hours a week while being paid for 40 hours, therefore working for free.
I think the hard part is that some people are just starting out and don’t feel worthy of a paying job quite yet. For example, I feel confident that I take relatively good photos and I’m working to get better, but I don’t feel ok charging somebody to help me learn. How do I combat that without taking some free jobs at the beginning?
I'd say just charge them less, but charge something! Even if you're still learning, you're putting work, time and money (equipment) into it, so you should be paid. There's always going to be "better", more experienced photographers out there who will charge a lot more, but that doesn't mean you should do your work for free :) all the best!
@Clyde 1066 Sounds great! I also think that it's a different story if you invite someone to shoot with you etc., but if you're the one being asked to take some pictures, then you should charge something imho.
Couldn’t agree more. It’s definitely destroying us in the long run. We need more big photographers like you to speak up on this. Every click we take from our camera is actually costing us. We definitely should charge at all times.
How would you say beginners should navigate this situation? If someone is starting out in the industry and their photo and editing skills aren't the best, how can they get paid for their work while also not charging too much for not providing high-quality work? At what point should someone get paid? From the start even if the work isn't the best or when they get better?
Sarai Vega was wondering this too! I’d feel bad charging someone if my pictures didn’t turn out that good, especially because I’m just learning. What sounds like a good price to charge for an hour/ half hour session?
Always charge something. Even if it's as low as $30/$50. Take it from someone who did one too many free jobs. Never let anyone convince you that them hiring you is good for "exposure" or that you need them to build your portfolio. NOPE. If you wanted free work, you'd ask them, not the other way around. A good way to build your skill and portfolio is to use friends/models for practice. That way, you're collaborating with people and both parties gain something, and it's worth your time. I personally recruit friends and even strangers as models, it's easier than people think! That way, I've been able to build my portfolio without de-valuing my work. I only ever do free work if I ASK; but if people reach out to me, I charge.
And when I say "as low as $30/$50", it really depends on the job. Never charge less than $100 for a wedding. Portraits can go as low as $40 and as high as $200/hr depending on experience level.
I have lost out on so many opportunities because of photographers who don't charge. One friend told me she felt like it was unfair to charge people who asked her for photos. Do people not realize that this is unfair to other photographers who are trying to make a living and grow?? Not only that but the people who beg photographers to shoot their wedding for free always hate their photos in the end ☕should have hired me at my really low student prices sis
It's fair. It's free market. Anyone can set any price one wants to set unless one is monopolist. You can buy almost any type of goods on sale. Sometimes you can pay for one and get two or get some free stuff during some promo campaign. We still can buy e.g. bread and clothes, the market has not been ruined yet. Explain your friend it's free market so she can charge $100 today, work for free tomorrow and for $1000 the day after tomorrow. Photography is not a primary human need so nobody will be actually hurt.
And anything people enjoy doing, is asked to do for free. It's a simple law of supply and demand. Unless everyone in a particular discipline is willing to join a union, people will always get paid less, or nothing at all. I am an artist, photographer, musician, and poet, and I can tell you, no one will pay you what you are worth. There are just too many creative people who will do it for fun/experience/recognition, instead of money. That is why you have to be more than good at what you do, you have to also be a good salesman, if you want to get paid.
I wouldn't say "never. But if you're ready to work for free - to boost your portfolio and gain experience - then you're the one who gets to chose your "clients". There are local associations, small groups trying to help thei community, a tiny obscure fanzine, strugling artists who will never make do... around you. Just chose your projects and don't only work with people you will enjoy working with, not exploiting you. And it's really gratifying to do something for them, as long as your contribution as a volonteer is recognized. But an actual business, a sucessful operation already have expanses. They know work has value, they pay lots of bills, why not yours ? Working for free for a thing you believe in is great, working for free to help someone else make money ? Nope. And you'll feel like shit because you're basically telling everyone - and yourself - that your work is worthless. It can be harder to handle than anticipated. And yes, simply thinking about other photographer out there and respecting them is really important too.
It is all about confidence in yourself , and not about others. You know your value, you charge accordingly - it works for me - I don't care what others charge or not
I love that you speak your heart out for our industry and colleagues. I am in the state of trying to control, that people won't even dare to ask me to do it for free, because I let them know from the beginning on, that I'm a professional photographer who only shoots for free, if I AM the one who asked for it. If you would like to be inspired by people who feel you too online have a look at Olivia Bossert, she is one of a kind, too. encouraging photographers to take over control and pivoting their business to payed fashion shoots. highly recommend her podcast :) Thank you for speaking up, Jessica you are amazing!!!! love your work and your personality
I've been doing photography for almost a year, once I had the KNOWLEDGE (and I'm no master I'm still learning) and the confidence in myself, not taking into account the time, money, gear -- you got to charge what you're worth and skills are, it's just that simple. From time to time I will reach out to models to do TFP just to keep my creative juices going when I'm doing more traditional stuff -- but I'm not working for free these days.
I saw this on my feed this morning and couldn't wait to get out of work to come watch~ cheers~ People often for my prices for a shoot but often they will find someone else who does it for cheaper, but of course they can never match our own personal styles :)
Do you know why photographers do it for free? Because nowadays every one is a photographer. I am not a professional but have been a hobbyist for more than 50 years and have seen what's happened to the "photography world". Jessica there's more to blame than photographers or so called photographers; blame the camera manufacturer's industry too. Greed started this whole thing and now you have the consequences of it. Myself, since I see this new generation of photographers shooting in Auto or P (for Professionals) only, I don't even bother going to expos unless its by old photographers showing their art or someone I know that tried hard to learn their stuff. How often do I hear hey, Luis, "I am a professional wedding photographer, could you explain my camera menus to me"?-Different times, different world, different industry !
Well, they're problems that coexist, it's not just one or the other. While on one hand, anyone can take photos now and you don't need a lot of experience with how cameras are made, it's also true that working for free, regardless of skill level, hurts other photographers. You paid for the camera, you have the photo editing software, you travel to the location, and you take up space on your camera and computer, and the hours it takes to shoot and edit--that's a process that shouldn't go unpaid. And even if it's as simple as "shooting in Auto", you still paid for that camera, space and time, and transportation costs. That should never be free, ever. And not for nothing, it just seems like you're standing on a soapbox and being a photographer gatekeeper. If you have a camera and take photos, you are a photographer. If you have years of experience or a great eye, editing skills or whatnot, you are a pro. Jessica has done challenges where she's used beginner cameras and cheaper cameras and has turned in some amazing work! So, no, please stop this gatekeeping thing.
@@artheaux666 He was just explaining how the industry has changed , as well as the mindset . I prefer lens made in the 80's and 90's on DSLR , over the plastic fantastic over priced lens of today . Why because they are built better .
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Wow.. 50 years... you sure are very OLD. And you didn't even get a penny. What a loser.
Jessica, I commend your efforts! You and others like yourself may save this generation. It blows my mind when I think about the money that sports photographers and photographers in general made during the film age compared to now. The photographer's talents were valued. Continue to shout from the rooftops, hopefully the message may take!
So true :) ty for posting and making this video , if you want to get experience, get it with friends and family, not someone who should be paying you for your time
I was told by my friend who is a professional photographer. Never do photography for free, charge at least something. I took that point literally and have continued with that motto. If people want it for free? tell them to get a cardboard sign and stand on a street corner with a sigh "Need $200 dollars for a photo shoot". When you earn enough money, pay my fee and I will do your shoot. Jessica, I am so happy that you expressed your thoughts and really hope everyone follows your lead. Great video It is cool how you tell it like it is!! I am your biggest fan.
I am so glad your addressing this. I hope more people get aware of the issue. It is strange how people just come to us photographers and be like hey can we shoot? People expect it to be free and when I"m like yes of course but not for free they cancel.
Not a photographer but I feel like every project worth their salt should be able to pay. If they really don't have the money, unless it's a charity or something, then how valuable the "exposure" can be?
Hahahaha your comment of "go and build your house for free" was hilarious. The first time watching you tonight and this was the 3rd video I saw. Love your passion!
I'm new to the photography world. I'm a musician. The same thing happened in the music business unfortunately. I think it's happening in the arts in general. You are 100% right.
Jeff Michael this is happening across all the boards of creatives. Music, art, photography, sculpting, etc.... The masters must be rolling in their graves by what is happening to what was created centuries ago
It’s a shame. It takes years to get good at your craft and also the equipment requirements for music,photography, etc. aren’t cheap. It’s sad that people expect a freebie for professional work.
I am actually writing an essay about this. I’m so thankful that you are bringing light to this because it is definitely a problem! Photography as a business should be taken seriously and photographers need to start valuing themselves and their art more because if we don’t, we’ll just keep being played. I will definitely be using this video as a source for my argument!
Funny enough when i was in my 4th year of photography, took this couple from highscool's engagement pictures, priced them out for their wedding. they got a family member to do it for free. but i didn't sweat cause someone told me they regretted it sooo much. last week someone also got "donated" a photographer for their event and didnt go with me, i was cool with it cause i just knew. and both of these people havent posted a singleeee picture from the wedding or event that show i know it was badddd haha
We cancelled one on a bride with entitlement complex a couple weeks ago. I ain't doing wedding for free. I'm pretty sure she found somebody, but I doubt it was a professional photographer cuz most pro photographers are booked this time of year.
A friend asked me to shoot his wedding. I denied as I wanted to be with the couple and enjoy the wedding but I did suggest a few other photographers. They went with someone who without telling them sent someone else and images were so bad. They haven't posted a single image till date.
Exactly man, I dont think there is a problem with new photographers offering free work, most businesses know you get what you pay for so if you a re getting free work its not going to be as good quality as if you hired some experienced photographer!
My own mom made me do this during a wedding of my aunt. I told her I still need to be paid, she tried to guilt trip me and told me about my "past sins"(I graduated with a medical course but I didnt like it). The deal went sour my cousin and I are still cool but my mom till this day doesnt see it as a job. PS photography is my part time during the weekends.
Absolutely--artist and photographers everywhere! Customers who don't know the process won't pay! We know the process, so we should set the rules and the prices.
This! I hate it when people ask to collab and they say, oh it will be really good exposure for you. Grinds me gears! I don't need more exposure, I need to pay rent and pay for the expensive camera gear I bought that I'll be using to shoot your photos. Well said girl!
I started by offering to shoot for free. They gave me reviews and that’s what lead to me making the money I do today. You don’t always want to shoot for free but for new photographers starting out it’s a good idea. Hate me for saying it but even Peter McKinnon has talked about getting most of his big clients through offering to work for free at the beginning of his career.
Finally, someone who understands. It's a pretty common business practice to give things away for free, especially when starting out. I really don't understand the hate coming to the photographer who took the job.
TheJwwinter if you’re a good photographer you won’t have an issue booking clients. Beginner photographers can build a portfolio by offering free shoots. In my experience those free customers turn into paying customers if you are too at what you do. I also believe in making photography accessible to everyone regardless of income so I will work with anyone on price. Every mom deserves to have great family pictures and beautiful pictures of their kids regardless of ability to pay and that’s just my opinion. So even now I still offer free shoots to people. They tell people about me, share my photos, they are just grateful and because of that I get good reviews that bring in more paying clients. It’s not about money all the time and if you go into this business being about money rather than about the client you won’t last.
Being patient and shooting for free is a great way to get your foot in the door. Being accessible even as you grow is an even greater way to bring in clients.
I experience this in a different way as I'm a recording artist and songwriter. I get a lot of people asking for collabs for free and don't give any background on what they want to do, what their idea is overall, and expect me to take the lead on it when 10 it's their song 2) they're not paying me. I get a lot of angry artists that send me a beat and tell me to do something with it and when i don't finish it within a week they get pissed at me. why would I EVER want to work with you if this is the case? don't ask me to write your whole song and then expect it for free or to even be a priority.
Same happens with illustrative or visual artists. Happens all the time. 🤷♀️ I have heard of people having their art stolen to be sold on Amazon and they were _flattered_ because they thought of themselves as a *fricking* hobbiests. They didn’t fight for their time, their effort and skills... hobby or not. It is just sad. No one will give you exposure - no one can give you exposure. They will forget you and you will never get the exposure you need. When people ask about who painted that picture - they will either forget your name and/or that other person will not EVER reach out to you - much less, pay you for something. It is a manipulative tactic used by those in power to devalue our time and make us feel we need to do things for free to move into our industry. It is a sham.
Louder!!! this applies for everyone, photographers, graphic artists, etc. everything she said is true. Thank You Jessica Kobeissi for this wonderful video!
Totally agree. We live in a freemium society. Everything's either for 'free' or exposure. The whole 'do the shoot for free but charge for usage' is also a bad idea (but better than nothing), because your copyrights are always your copyrights; licensing should be limited to specific usage for a fee and at least the shoot costs. I always charge separate prices for venue/studio costs, photography fee (day rate) and for retouching per photo. That way a client can build a package and have a limited license to use them. Usually, I allow a limited social media license as part of the deal, but press/tv and other media uses, I charge an additional fee. In some rare cases a 'free' opportunity works, but it's hard to foresee what 'freebie collaborations' might pay off. Also there's always someone else coming up the ladder and willing to do free stuff to build experience. A potential client may take advantage of the 'up and comer' and not really care about the quality of work.
MAKE SURE ANY FREE WORK YOU DO HAS A SPECIFIC PURPOSE. I don't think you should NEVER work for free, but be CHOOSEY about it. Portfolio building? Good reason. Charity work? Good reason. Feeling bad for charging? NOT a good reason. Whether you work for free or not, always have your terms in writing and ALWAYS set expectations (hours you plan to work on the project, # of photos, retouching, etc) from the very beginning.
Candid and to the point - let’s not forget those that give an album and negatives to a wedding for under £300 no re-touching, colour correction and badly composed but then they are the grab and runners which can afford a bad reputation but also destroy the industry at the same time. Stick to your guns, your belief in your talent, skill and excellence at what you offer the right clients will value this and pay for your services and you. Let the wrong clients go to the above they get what they deserve and what they are not willing to pay for.
Oceana Carter another good point is if you have a mirrored dslr camera. Every time you take a photo and the shutter slaps down the more wear and tear is happening. A dslr camera can only take so many photos. A mirrorless camera will have longer lifetimes than a normal dslr with Mirrors. Meaning each photo you take cost money. Either you’ll pay for it or they will.. I charge for the amount of time and I calculate in the time how many photos I take, how much my camera costs, and what prints they want comes last.
I'm totally agree! It's exactly the same in the makeup artist business. I have decline many shoots or campaigns because they wanted the work done for free or just for a sandwich and a coffee, however many of my colleagues has done plenty of those campaigns just for the names on the magazine. Your name in a magazine does not pay your rent, the electricity, your expenses and not even the makeup products being used, which by the way aren't cheap. But as you say the ones who does the job for free is ruining the business for themselves and for all of us. I do many many less freelancer jobs than others but at least got paid for my time, creativity and talent. Charging what you think you deserve is not being arrogant, is about self respect for that you are worth.
Look at the quality of your work and charge accordingly. Look at what professional photographers are charging for similar shoots and using those figures as a base helps.
I know a lot of beginners who typically will charge around 15-20$ per hour. Being prepared can allow you to work in a timely manner so that the people you’re working with don’t feel pressured to spend a lot of money. And you get experience and pocket change. The better and more confident you get, the longer shoots you’ll be able to do, more you can charge, and more clients. Or you can ask people to model for you so it’s building your portfolio but not at your expense.
Yes, this is true. But the thing is, now everyone has a camera and youtube tutorials. So if you don't have a portfolio, how you make one? i think the 'free photos' phase is for making a portfolio and a name for yourself, cause if you don't you get lost in all of the people w cameras and tutorials. It's sad, but it's the time that we live in.
This is so true. Same goes for illustrators, graphic designers and content makers in general. There are always these opportunist customers coming with the classic "It will give you some exposure" of course it will but your time and energy are valuable. Context is really important too, for instance submitting your work to independent webzines benefits both parties. No need to undervalue your potential in order to develop some sort of experience. It might help the person concerned in a way but by doing so it devalues the whole profession and I can confirm you from a personal perspective that most customers have no shame asking quality work for free. Avoid these ppl at all cost especially if they insist with audacity. Be clear from the start even though they are notorious celebrities.
Yep, the minute other people start either doing things for free or highly reduced rates it screws everyone else, that's why in theory price fixing is considered bad and illegal but in reality it helps everyone when there is a consistent price for goods and services.
Recently came across post of one girl, who is doing quite nice portraits and in most photos retouch was really good. So she's offered 50 photos for 40 dollars 🤦♀️ Photographers got really angry, and she explained that not everyone got the money to have a photo and she wanted to help those people. As for me, she's just ruining the business. Here in Poland price for one decent portrait is from 5 to 20 dollars. But she was charging less then 1 dollar and told she'll give it to klient just the next day!
@@grey6031 I would say average quality would be a little bit poorer, but some of them could be great. The pictures would be taken in similar conditions, so she could edit one photo and apply the preset to other ones. Next, I'm not sure her customer needs 50 photos.They need just one but have 50 to choose. The chance one of 50 photos satisfy the customer is higher than if they were provided a few selected decent portraits. And lower price lowers expectations. So she provides one portrait for $40 that is likely to satisfy her client that would recommend her to their friends.
Well said! Hold your ground, stand up for your work, your skill and your craft. There is no question there are plenty of good photographers who understand their value and make good money doing excellent work. Chances are, if you are giving your work away for free, then it ain't worth a nickel.
working for free for commercial projects is absolutely mental, learn your rights yall. I've joined a fb community named lawtog, where I always learn from various cases, it's us based and i'm in europe so the laws might be differents but it's still good informations to learn, the value we bring to these companies/influencers/etc by making promotional shoots is much more important than what we'll earn, keep that in mind. Cool video and topic Jessica!!
A director contacted me. He wanted me to take headshots for 30 people in one hour. I was offered $125 for that. I wasn't even mad. I actually laughed out loud when I saw the offer.
This is the opposite advice that I've heard from other photographers like Peter Mckinnon who says to offer your work for free when you're just starting out and if you take great shots, your name will get known and eventually you'll be hired by those who appreciate your work.
Totally agree! Even when they say when your just starting out for exposure, whether the end product is perfectly polished or not, your still putting time and work into it that should be paid for.
I completely agree. I do college graduation pictures at my school and already charge an extremely reasonable price, but so many other photographers either work for free or only charge $5 per person (which might as well be nothing) and it is so hard to find paid work because of it.... Thank you for making this video and opening this conversation.
Oh this story is so sad. At my uni/college we spent four years developing a no tolerance policy in the photo club for no pay. Exactly what you said, small pay minimum. When the old guard left, some newbie took over and chucked that out the window. Even worse as people were offering to pay (because, you know, they had learned. That photo club will tell you to f.o. if you don't pay), and the new president FALSELY claimed that the club memebers weren't allowed to charge for a (non existent) school policiy *grrrr*. We (the old guard) were freaking furious.
Interesting concept, I will go a little bit further in this conversation and i will talk about Cheap Work vs Free Work. I think cheap work is ruining the business even more because at least in the free work you are more in control to add some value or not and for the other side i would like to open another conversation here and it is Freelancing vs your Brand or Business. As a freelance your situation is not than open to opportunities as a brand or business. So your last point about what is beneficial to you is alright like you said at the end, working with the clients you want etc but i am totally agree that a big establish brand screwing your free is not cool and i will go even futher they are not interested in your work. Same as the person that wants your job for free, you dont need those clients...they will back to you after seeing what they get for free. Really valid points in this video
I just started two months ago in photo/videos and I told the only 4 clients I have in the beginning "I'll do a promo video and pics for 1hr for $50. If you like it my regular prices are _____ if you wanted to continue from now on" That small initial price lures them in.
That is one way of thinking of it. I went into photography with pretty much no portfolio, especially no wedding portfolio, so I shot one wedding for free and from that wedding I got enough photos that I made it look like 3-4 different weddings and I filled my portfolio with it. I then got recommended to their friends who were getting married soon after, and I shot their wedding for the price that I had planned to shoot weddings for. After that wedding I have gotten suggested to a few more couples and I have become a preferred photographer for one of the top wedding venues in my area. So on one hand yes taking free jobs is rough, but you can't just sit there idle asking people to pay for a product or service that is completely unknown to them. You have to show them what you can do for them to be willing to pay.
Agreed 100%. Guys/girls who are reading this, please charge for your work. Don't downgrade the profession or your work by working for free. Time is money, and you need to charge for your time. Also on that note, don't undercharge. Be honest about charging a similar going rate for the job you're doing. Don't be the guy or girl that undercuts by 80% just to say you're charging -- you're still undervaluing the work and profession as a whole.
Hey 👋 stumbled on this video today and it’s very relevant to me atm. I’ve only just started, like 8 weeks ago and I needed a portfolio, so I was asking about for free shoots. I had no option as I had no work to showcase to actually charge. Thing is my work must be doing something in this short period as I’ve recently had a few inquiries. I said to the first person who asked that it was free and I’m now regretting this, I will need to start charging ASAP because otherwise my work will be unvalued. Last 2 people I’ve added to pay my costs and I will work up from there as my skill levels improve. Thanks for all the content, your channel is helping me improve daily
Actually it is easy...its not easy to survive as a photographer, but you just need a couple of weeks to find out how a camera works and for light, compositions etc.
@@the0tanr Some people just learn programming in a few weeks/months for example, and they say it is easy, some people learn haircuts in less time, or something like that, so you can´t say that for everyone, for example I´m photographing more serious about 8-9 months, and I still suck, while I am good for example in learning new languages and things like that. But you´re right, photography nowadays is more like better marketing yourself = good.
@@wladynosz1565 You have to learn and practive a lot to achieve good results. You have to devote you live for outstanding photographs. But many people are good at learning medicine; at learning photography? For average person photography is still easier than a lot of other fields.
@Sun Kyong Kim You are talking about basic stuff people in this century have to know. Only people who didnt grew up with the internet would have trouble with all of that.
Very well said Jessica. Unfortunately, not everyone think like you and I. They pretty don't care. Sad, now alot of starting up business or already established business trying to take advantage and asked models and Photographers, HMUA to collaborate with them for commercial yet and many happily put their hands up. I have seen it daily in my city. It's so hard to turn Photography into a full job now because everyone with a camera called themselves a photographer. Even iPhone Photography is a trend.
She hit the nail on the head with this one. Please creators stop doing free work its killing the ones who actually got a legit business. Get a reward every time you say action and you pose someone.. Get what you deserve
I think fstoppers interviewed one photographer and he said the best thing he ever did was do free work. It basically got him noticed by big brands. Now he is doing projects that are like $50k+
The music industry has a similar problem with other musicians always trying to get ahead of you no matter the cost. Is there something similar to a signing to music label in the photography community and how hard is it when you're just starting free lance? I'm not a photographer but it's inspiring to see someone in art type field doing well. It surprises me how similar the music/photography fields are in terms of someone thinking they're better than someone else and someone with a following doesn't deserve it.
The problem of creative workers. They think we do it for fun.
For any self driven business you should do it for the love of it. Life is a roller coaster, each new level is scarier than the next. Our desires to succeed doesn’t stop us from being on the food chain. A simple no and business planning separates us from the rest
This is so true we are destroying each others changes. Unfortunately people don't see photography as a "real" job. It is actually pretty offensive if you're asking someone to photograph you for free. It's like asking your hairdresser to do it for free. You see?? Its weird
Although there are so many competitor in Photography business, many people who can´t shot that well but say they´re photographers, I think these people destroy it at the most. Nowadays almost everybody has smartphones, so yes.
@@wladynosz1565 exactly and ofcourse they don't have to pay for their gear as much as the real photographers do. So they also don't care to do it for free.
@@wladynosz1565 the problem is also in that kind of people that do not understand that quality is more important than the price. For example when someone wants photos for a marriage he does not say "okay man, let me see some of your works", in the majority of the cases he would say "Okay man, what's the price?"
yet they'll do it for art, personal trainers, photographers, and paintings. like I spent $200 just to get the materiels to paint alone. why would I just give that to you for free. you gotta charge per hour on the paintings and then also charge cost of materiels used and people dont seem to understand that. (I'm also an artist on top of yoga instructing.)
Because it's not a real job
If you're good at something, never do it for free.
Oh wow I did not expect to see you commenting here of all places.
The problem is, individuals, companies and organisations who nees this type of work done, don't care to get "the professional" aka. "the best," they would rather have "good enough" work done for them, for free, that is good enough to sell or peomote themselves or their products or simply grant them exposure - If "good enough" work sells their product or grants them a lot of exposure, then there's no need for professional grade aka. top quality work... And the problem is that people who do "good enough" work, will often do it for free, to gain exposure or experience themselves.
You nailed the bait right there at 02:01 getting those "great opportunities" from fashion coordinators, radio stations (putting on a party), convention centers hosting auto-shows, etc... they make contact as if they are wanting to hire you. Then, as the conversation continues they cite how much money "exposure like this" is worth? Well, to me, it's worth nothing since my schedule is full and I'm booking into 2020. I do enjoy seeing who actually covered the event and they don't realize that it simply says that they are not getting enough work, and that can backfire. Once they have done it for FREE, that is their category... think about it. What about your clients who have paid your full price? What message did you send to them when they learn that you did someone else's images FREE? You just won't last, just my opinion, unless it's a strong charity or worthy cause, everyone should be paying you on the same scale without concessions for "exposure". Side note - when you do photography for charity, GIVE them the work and keep your name out of it, true charity is anonymous.
I have had a family friend want me to shoot a cook book for them... I said yes and here would be my price.... they instantly say no and said they have an iphone that can do the same thing XD .. Needless to say the cookbook never happened with a publisher due to the quality of there shots :D
YESSSS!!!! SCREENSHOTTING THIS FOR ALL YA IPHONOGRAHERS OUT THERE...lol but omg I'm sorry your friend didnt see the value in the work you provide.
I found a good way for how to make the shoots for free and make money out of it without them to pay. If they ask me to do it for free, I say OK, but I say that I keep the rights to all the photos and all models needs to sign the release form. This way I can sell the photos to anyone else, re-use them or do anything I like with them. Also the free package for them will contain only the medium resolution, so they could "barely" use it for the main purpose and they would have to pay if they want the high resolution images and full edits on them. You can even specify on the deal, how many shoots you can do for free and charge them more if they want "all of it". Finally if you feel that the job is for a big project and they just using you or are acting like a dick, sign the deal, go on the shoot and start taking pictures with your phone. If they ask you why you do it with your phone, you can say that they they have to rent the gear if they want you to use it and that they can rent it from you. Just make sure the contract they sign doesn't specify your gear. A good rate for gear rental is 10% of it's market value, which is enough for you to get a nice pay from the job, and for them in most cases it's not worth to waste a full day to make the session again or they might not even have an option like this. In other words, if you have free time, never take down the job, just think on how you can profit from it without getting paid directly for the main job.
That's a quite clever way to tackle this issue.
OMG, this is wise. You f*** greedy clients, you f*** complaining photographers losing their opportunities. You f*** them all and win.
Free photographs will ever be available however loud professional protographers would cry. You just adapt and play the game. Good job!
The photos belong to you anyway. Even if they paid you unless you sold the rights the photos are yours
smart af, shooting with your phone is the best thing lmao
This is ingenious.
"If you're good at something, never do it for free."
So how do you know when you are good when you are just starting?
@ why would anyone start if they don't know if they're good at doing something
@ wow! you actually make much more sense than I do.
Keep that attitude and smartness and You're defo gonna be successful. 😂
- The Joker. @ The Dark Knight 😅
You're so right. It's also true for other art mediums where people(people I know, who should be supporting me as an artist, family members) expect me to create an illustration for free. The moment I named my prices based on how many hours I work on an illustration, and how much I MYSELF PAY for Adobe, people stop requesting work. It's such a shame how society thinks artists could just work for free.
I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MUCH I AGREE WITH YOU! As an Influencer and photographer, I can't tell you how many brands ask for not only free work, but for an outrageous amount of deliverables/duties. The amount of hours I spend educating myself, working hard to afford quality gear, mapping out and brainstorming how to capture a brand's message and aesthetic but through my own aesthetic, doing the actual photoshoot, then editing, then...etc. It's a none stop process!
And it upsets me so much when Influencers and photographers use the excuse of "I don't know how much to charge" or "I don't want to deal with contracts" or "I'm not that serious about it"... if that's really the case, ask for $20! To at least give yourself some worth as well as all the other creators in our field.
I stand my ground when it comes to companies who "want to work with me because I'm the perfect fit" but "don't have a budget". And it's shocking the switch of tone in the emails when I bring up that I charge for what I do. Like.. you get paid to reach out to Influencers to make a successful campaign, what's makes you think we don't deserve to get paid for all the hard work we're doing for your brand's monetary benefit?
End rant.. I could go on but just had to get those things out. Moral of the story: YOU HAVE VALUE. So stand up to it and demand to be respected and valued for your talent, time, and hard work.
Photographers have finally caught up to musicians. Musicians have been eating each other alive for 20 years for "exposure".
they even want us (musicians) to pay to PLAY, wtf man...
What drives me crazy is that i do a photoshoot for free and then they'll boss me around and demand the pictures as soon as possible as if i'm working for them!! Or they would be like: give me the raw photos it's fine i'll put a filter. (If it is that easy i would've slapped a filter on them 🤦🏻♂️)
So true, but I correct them and tell them my terms if I decide to do a free shoot. It has to be something we both benefit from, and I get them to sign a release, stating if they want to own the images, they would have to pay for them, and I pick a few images to give them, never giving them all the images. So my shoot maybe free but not my retouching and additional images, need to be paid for and they will never get unedited images once again unless they pay for the batch of images. They feel they can get away with free everything, not with me, my friends:)
I know right! I can totally relate. It is so sad yo
@@shaft5515chase do you by chance have a general template for a release? I started doing headshots as a side hustle and I've worked with a few people who are just downright rude and disrespectful.
OHHHH GODDDDDDDD THIS HIT SO DEEEPPPP
That is so true.. so sad
Not even going to lie. As a photog, I'm guilty of this... and it led to a real deep depression when I stopped making any money at all. You can't just charge some people and then work with some people for free. It's really up to us to collectively decide to put our feet down and demand to be treated the same as everyone else and be paid for our work. At this point, we're just letting people rob us and then giving them extra money as well. We deserve to get paid just like everyone else. You don't walk into a lawyer's office and offer them "exposure" as a form of payment, you'd be laughed out of the building. Can you imagine if we didn't have platforms like youtube or Instagram?? Maybe we would still get paid, but at the same time we also wouldn't reach as many people... such a struggle. Glad you addressed this girly ~ AMEN KEEP PREACHING.
This is a bad example because there are actually lawyers who do take cases just because of the publicity. This not only happens in the real world but in tv shows like SVU. Just depends on how big the case is and if the publicity of winning that big case could launch their career.
Lawyers DO work for free at times, especially if it is a case that will advance their career. It's called 'Pro Bono' work.
I'm Graphic designer & the same problème .... People destroying our industrie ;/
je suis d'accord avec toi.. c'est vraiment triste que ces métiers ne soient pas payés comme les autres :(
Pareil, les graphistes qui bossent gratos se rendent pas compte à quel point ils dévaluent la profession. Le pire ça reste quand même les clients qui osent débarquer avec un "ça te fera un peu de pub"............ 😩 euh non merçi, ça va aller, moi aussi j'ai des factures et un loyer à payer tu sais.
Yup. Same. The struggle is real. I do not work for free!!
I’m only a student in design and this drives me crazy already ! Work is work right ?
Agree, people are destroying the industry . :(
Honestly, know the feeling. It's that way for almost any form of art. Only time I do anything regarding photography is for what's called photogrammetry for game dev. Photogrammetry is the art of making a high detailed model from several different pictures. Can sometimes have over a thousand pictures of one object to ensure you capture it correctly to ensure that the model comes out solid model with no holes. After that I still have to do a lot of work to ensure that the model is usable in a game engine. I also do digital sculpting and poly modeling (traditional 3d modeling), and texture work as well, which takes even more time than if I did the photogrammetry route. This last week I got a email from somebody that saw my portfolio. They wanted me to model game objects for them and possibly entire rooms to a military style bunker w/o even being willing to pay me for it. Was told that it would be good for exposure and that they had 6 ppl already doing it. I have software licenses that I have to renew each year, cost of computer upgrades to be able to use the latest tools/game engines so that I can stay competitive, cost of my camera gear that I use for photogrammetry (if I end up needing to use it) and that's not counting any bills that I have. I agree with you that it sucks that ppl expect a lot of work to be done for free and it sucks even more that ppl are willing to do stuff like that for free because it ruins it for everybody.
And then people dm you for price, you tell them the price and get SILENCE!
Or they say that they will write you soon
Omg!!! I can relate on this so much, I don’t even charge that much and people get their panties up in a bunch, I should charge more
@@sebastiankvasnak3527 and one out of 50 actually writes back...
@@lolak8573 Hate that..but I live in Slovakia and that is usual there
@@sebastiankvasnak3527 this is so sad...
I just started doing photography as a business and I'm starting out real cheap but believe me, I've been doing photography for a while. My rate right now is actually $35 for an hour shoot. I had an instance recently where I did a photoshoot for someone and sent them 35 Edited Photos (Photoshop/Lightroom). I spent maybe 4-5 hours editing the photos. The guy said he loved them, and then asked for 10 more photos to be edited. Me being the kind person I am, said I would do it because I want the person to be happy. Also, I seen that the person is nice and seems to value my time. Little bit down the road, the person gives me $35 flat .. and then 10 minutes later his conviction hit him and he gave me a $5 tip. I never felt more disrespected. I usually "say" 35 but people give me 50+ easily because I edit a lot of photos for them and spend extra time shooting with them.They understand I want them to happy and I'm not just going it for the money aspect. Anyways, as a result of this experience, I began to be more straight up with my prices driving them up higher, and honestly I don't like it because it takes away from my love of photography and just generally making people happy. However, people just don't seem to value or understand the time put into photography. It takes hours just to shoot, sift through the photos, edit them, and upload/share the photos with them. They think it's a simple click of a button. Just some food for thought ... :(((
THANK YOU!!! I've been struggling to find clients that will actually pay! I did a free photoshoot for a friend, and now everyone expects me to to it for free every time. its not okay. so thank you :)
I get asked maybe 3 or 4 times a week to do a free shoot in exchange for promotion. I usually have 10x the followers they have. In reality they would be the one benefiting from tagging me in the photo. I usually only do free work if it’s a friend or someone who I believe I can create something special with. I never do unpaid commercial work, a 14 year old girl wrote to me Instagram and asked me how she can take a photo of herself that looks like I took it as she loved my style. She said she works a few hours a week and could never afford a professional shoot but really wanted a nice photo to give her grandmother as a gift for her birthday ( she had very close relationship with her ) I did a 4 hour shoot with her for free and edited 20 photos from the shoot. We met up again a few weeks later and I gave her the photos on a flash drive aswell as an old D3100 camera and lens I had in storage from when I first started and spent another couple of hours giving her a crash course in photography. She sends me every edited photo she takes and I give her feedback on them. My wife ( model ) is also working with her giving advice on poses and styling shoots. No money has ever exchanged hands but when you see how much pride and passion you can give someone by donating a few hours time, it’s worth it.
totally relate to that!! too many kids out there, daddy paying a Sony camera for em' and changed their description on Instagram (content creator) and shoots for free and just post stories ( SHOOTING).
real photographers gets the backlash and clients expect that everyone will do it for free!!!!
too many kids out there, daddy paying a Sony camera for em' and changed their description on Instagram (content creator) and shoots for $10000 per hour
clients expect that photography is so hard and so important so it's insult to pay them less than $100000000!!!!
everyone needs to see this.. in the city I live in Brazil, photography and videography is the most devalued art-form there is. Fully dedicating myself to the craft for the past 3-4 years and having others who are just starting out always offering themselves for free, and seeing the work that they put out which is literally a copy and paste preset that makes everyone look like aliens with dreadful skintones and terrible color patterns really hurts those who have been grinding to really get their name and work out there. It can get kinda discouraging sometimes but I’ve recently used it to better my work even more. I’ve been using it to push myself further so I can make it my duty to stand out above all. Desire it more than the “competition” so the clients will have no choice but to make you the 1 and only option.
Omg, that's so true! Every time I hear "what's hard in being photographer?" or "you are tired? because what? because you took a few portraits and then edit them in home in your pyjama with cup of tea?" I'm really angry to hear that, I really don't like to be unappreciated for my job. People thinks we have simple and good life because we are sitting in front of computer all day in houses and we don't need to get up at 6 am to office. My home is my office. I start my job at 8 am and I work all day, sometimes all night, because every thing I do is related to my work, even stupid viewing instagram. And I love photography because first of all - this is my bigest passion. So I want to be appreciated and I want to get paid for my work 24/7.
This is why I'm not doing photography as a business anymore. I still love it but as a hobby. I don't like portraits anymore, either.
What doll you shoot?
This is SO true. The amount of times I've been asked or demanded to do Free Work.
Not only are Clients killing the Industry, but people who accept free work are killing it too.
People don't see Photography or Videography as a real Job. It IS a real Job. Not everybody can do it.
The question I hate the most is when someone writes me is “what is your rate” or “how much do you charge”? No point of reference, no backstory or info on why there contacting, just what I charge. “How can I give you proper rate if I don’t know what the job is”
Photographers arent destroying it. The market is changing. Photography is getting easier and easier. Information is spreading and the market is becoming saturated. Honestly, UA-camrs giving tutorials are more of the problem than photographers giving free shoots.
Think about this: 30 years ago, there were very few photographers making a living from it. Now anyone can do it. Photography teachers, YTers, etc. are the ones that are replacing "professional" photographers and event photographers are being commoditized. Taking pictures is a low skill labor, theres no barrier to entry and anyone can do it. Sure there is a hierarchy but to Jane Smith uploading to IG, they dont care. We cant just hope that things change, we have to adapt and find new ways to monetize it(like you have Jess).
well said.
my style attracts a different crowd which are rappers. it sucks because it's even worse in that community "yeah ight i'll hit u up about payment when i get paid in 2 weeks" never hits me up again or never pays me. or they'll have their friend or cousin do the work for free using their phone..
Don't ever send photos before you get paid
I understand and agree with your point, for the most part. i think for your first few shoots as a photographer it's okay doing it for free because you don't really know what you're doing, but then start introducing the cost after a bit of experience. if you're a surgeon, for example, then you have to train for years before you start getting paid. but i do agree that i think clients take advantage of photographers and we should be asking to get paid for more things than we do
Ugh, I had a great opportunity to work with a group that had several events during the year and I took this job because I knew there was no question it would lead to other shoots as the president was already talking long term without me even doing one shoot. The catch was the low pay. I was so young and dumb in the game at the time, I took the job. I got paid a fourth of what I should have and when my time was up, they wanted more and more pictures to the point where it ran over a full hour and a half. Then they wanted photoshop and I was yes, yes (for free). I took one more event and it was ridiculous what all they wanted for pennies.
There was no one to blame but myself and my total lack of experience in understanding my worth. They called me for another job, clearly so happy and eager because they were getting the world for basically nothing, and I ghosted so hard. Over the next several years even though I began charging what I was worth with other clients, I got so sick of explaining this worth to people constantly telling me, well I have a cousin with an iPhone that could do it if that's the cost (then why did you call me? My base price was no secret), or their friend's photographer did it for half the cost, or do you think you can give me a discount, that I literally left the photography business altogether and started another business where there is no ambiguity on anyones part as to cost and worth.
It doesn't matter if the majority of photographers start demanding shoots at cost because there will always be someone who will do it for free or who is just young and didn't know like I was, or the classic "needing to build a portfolio." No one wants to pay, but they want those shots everyone sees online---trust and believe, these aren't your cousin on an iphone! Good luck to all the photographers still chugging away and fighting the good fight.
When I first started my business, no one wanted to step in front of my camera, I think because I didn’t have content to show my skills. Many times I was cancelled on the day of or day before on some sessions too...but I kept going. I don’t think beginners realize that free sessions impact all of us in the industry. So maybe creating a video suggesting ways to help build your portfolio to new photographers without having to do it for free will be a little more helpful. For example, finding the right Facebook group to announce you building your portfolio even for a small price. I just am slightly new and remember having no idea where or how to start.
Anyways I am a big fan of your work and really love all of your videos.
But yes, if you’re good at something, never do it for free.
Couldn't agree more!! 👍
YES
"The wolf eats the sheep" - this was a line from a movie called -Training Day (Denzel Washington). You make good points but a person needs a portfolio and experience and the opportunity to work will at some point pay itself back. When I first started doing photography I shot two bands and two weddings for free. The amount of experience I gained was priceless along with making connections etc, and after that I basically never did work for free again with exception of making stock file and resources for others free. Long term thinking is the wolf, short term is the sheep.
Opportunity can't be bought and connections are priceless. Experience is necessary and competition in the market is truth. A person starts at the bottom, not the top. So for everything there is a price on both ends of the deal.
(1) Potential clients who are willing to accept free work from hobbyists as "good enough" were NEVER actually potential clients to begin with. You have to understand that, it was just an illusion. Or wishful thinking on your part.
(2) For actual clients who do understand the value of professional work you have to make damn sure that your work is much, much better than what the free hobbyists provide. There is no way around that. And in addition to creating better work you have to also provide an overall total professional experience outside of the pictures.
Unfortunately technology and computational photography has drastically lowered standards.
Professional Illustrator/Graphic Designer here. Thank you for posting this. You're saying the exact same things I've been complaining about for decades. I've seen the downfall of the creative industry in real time, and it's ALL our fault. We allowed this. We undercharge, we let cheapskates take advantage of us and we rarely demand a non-refundable deposit. Artists are quick to grumble about people asking for free or insultingly cheap work, when the anger needs to be directed at our peers for allowing it to get this bad.
It's not just photography.
The visual effects and animation industry are hiring people at low wages and overworking them to get the films made. People are working 80 hours a week while being paid for 40 hours, therefore working for free.
I think the hard part is that some people are just starting out and don’t feel worthy of a paying job quite yet. For example, I feel confident that I take relatively good photos and I’m working to get better, but I don’t feel ok charging somebody to help me learn. How do I combat that without taking some free jobs at the beginning?
I'd say just charge them less, but charge something! Even if you're still learning, you're putting work, time and money (equipment) into it, so you should be paid. There's always going to be "better", more experienced photographers out there who will charge a lot more, but that doesn't mean you should do your work for free :) all the best!
I agree with the other comment charge less or charge something and then increase your prices as you get better or have better equipment!
@Clyde 1066 Sounds great! I also think that it's a different story if you invite someone to shoot with you etc., but if you're the one being asked to take some pictures, then you should charge something imho.
This the EXACT reason why I got out of Graphic Design.
Couldn’t agree more. It’s definitely destroying us in the long run. We need more big photographers like you to speak up on this. Every click we take from our camera is actually costing us. We definitely should charge at all times.
How would you say beginners should navigate this situation? If someone is starting out in the industry and their photo and editing skills aren't the best, how can they get paid for their work while also not charging too much for not providing high-quality work? At what point should someone get paid? From the start even if the work isn't the best or when they get better?
Sarai Vega was wondering this too! I’d feel bad charging someone if my pictures didn’t turn out that good, especially because I’m just learning. What sounds like a good price to charge for an hour/ half hour session?
Simran Pahwa exactly! It’s something I’ve struggled to figure out
Always charge something. Even if it's as low as $30/$50. Take it from someone who did one too many free jobs. Never let anyone convince you that them hiring you is good for "exposure" or that you need them to build your portfolio. NOPE. If you wanted free work, you'd ask them, not the other way around. A good way to build your skill and portfolio is to use friends/models for practice. That way, you're collaborating with people and both parties gain something, and it's worth your time. I personally recruit friends and even strangers as models, it's easier than people think! That way, I've been able to build my portfolio without de-valuing my work. I only ever do free work if I ASK; but if people reach out to me, I charge.
And when I say "as low as $30/$50", it really depends on the job. Never charge less than $100 for a wedding. Portraits can go as low as $40 and as high as $200/hr depending on experience level.
Daniella Okezie wow thank you so much for this advice! Very helpful !
An unwillingness on the part of a 'client' to pay for your services means they don't believe your time and labor of any value. DON'T WORK FOR FREE!
Facts! Great video! I see this issue a lot with IG bloggers. The word collaboration has almost been synonymous with the word “free”.
I get one of them messaging me at least once a week.
Shared this on all my platforms because people NEED TO HEAR THIS! Jessica coming through with the real TRUTH
I have lost out on so many opportunities because of photographers who don't charge. One friend told me she felt like it was unfair to charge people who asked her for photos. Do people not realize that this is unfair to other photographers who are trying to make a living and grow?? Not only that but the people who beg photographers to shoot their wedding for free always hate their photos in the end ☕should have hired me at my really low student prices sis
It's fair. It's free market. Anyone can set any price one wants to set unless one is monopolist.
You can buy almost any type of goods on sale. Sometimes you can pay for one and get two or get some free stuff during some promo campaign. We still can buy e.g. bread and clothes, the market has not been ruined yet.
Explain your friend it's free market so she can charge $100 today, work for free tomorrow and for $1000 the day after tomorrow. Photography is not a primary human need so nobody will be actually hurt.
@@sekrasoft That's like saying steam should shut down f2p games because EA and Ubisoft wont make any money.
And anything people enjoy doing, is asked to do for free.
It's a simple law of supply and demand.
Unless everyone in a particular discipline is willing to join a union, people will always get paid less, or nothing at all.
I am an artist, photographer, musician, and poet, and I can tell you, no one will pay you what you are worth.
There are just too many creative people who will do it for fun/experience/recognition, instead of money.
That is why you have to be more than good at what you do, you have to also be a good salesman, if you want to get paid.
I wouldn't say "never. But if you're ready to work for free - to boost your portfolio and gain experience - then you're the one who gets to chose your "clients". There are local associations, small groups trying to help thei community, a tiny obscure fanzine, strugling artists who will never make do... around you. Just chose your projects and don't only work with people you will enjoy working with, not exploiting you. And it's really gratifying to do something for them, as long as your contribution as a volonteer is recognized.
But an actual business, a sucessful operation already have expanses. They know work has value, they pay lots of bills, why not yours ? Working for free for a thing you believe in is great, working for free to help someone else make money ? Nope. And you'll feel like shit because you're basically telling everyone - and yourself - that your work is worthless. It can be harder to handle than anticipated.
And yes, simply thinking about other photographer out there and respecting them is really important too.
It is all about confidence in yourself , and not about others. You know your value, you charge accordingly - it works for me - I don't care what others charge or not
Exposure is the company telling other's you will work for free LMFAO
Yep. And then ALL of them expect you to work for free, since you didn't charge any of them.
I love that you speak your heart out for our industry and colleagues. I am in the state of trying to control, that people won't even dare to ask me to do it for free, because I let them know from the beginning on, that I'm a professional photographer who only shoots for free, if I AM the one who asked for it. If you would like to be inspired by people who feel you too online have a look at Olivia Bossert, she is one of a kind, too. encouraging photographers to take over control and pivoting their business to payed fashion shoots. highly recommend her podcast :) Thank you for speaking up, Jessica you are amazing!!!! love your work and your personality
I've been doing photography for almost a year, once I had the KNOWLEDGE (and I'm no master I'm still learning) and the confidence in myself, not taking into account the time, money, gear -- you got to charge what you're worth and skills are, it's just that simple. From time to time I will reach out to models to do TFP just to keep my creative juices going when I'm doing more traditional stuff -- but I'm not working for free these days.
I saw this on my feed this morning and couldn't wait to get out of work to come watch~ cheers~ People often for my prices for a shoot but often they will find someone else who does it for cheaper, but of course they can never match our own personal styles :)
Do you know why photographers do it for free? Because nowadays every one is a photographer. I am not a professional but have been a hobbyist for more than 50 years and have seen what's happened to the "photography world". Jessica there's more to blame than photographers or so called photographers; blame the camera manufacturer's industry too. Greed started this whole thing and now you have the consequences of it. Myself, since I see this new generation of photographers shooting in Auto or P (for Professionals) only, I don't even bother going to expos unless its by old photographers showing their art or someone I know that tried hard to learn their stuff. How often do I hear hey, Luis, "I am a professional wedding photographer, could you explain my camera menus to me"?-Different times, different world, different industry !
Well, they're problems that coexist, it's not just one or the other. While on one hand, anyone can take photos now and you don't need a lot of experience with how cameras are made, it's also true that working for free, regardless of skill level, hurts other photographers. You paid for the camera, you have the photo editing software, you travel to the location, and you take up space on your camera and computer, and the hours it takes to shoot and edit--that's a process that shouldn't go unpaid. And even if it's as simple as "shooting in Auto", you still paid for that camera, space and time, and transportation costs. That should never be free, ever.
And not for nothing, it just seems like you're standing on a soapbox and being a photographer gatekeeper. If you have a camera and take photos, you are a photographer. If you have years of experience or a great eye, editing skills or whatnot, you are a pro. Jessica has done challenges where she's used beginner cameras and cheaper cameras and has turned in some amazing work! So, no, please stop this gatekeeping thing.
@@artheaux666 So why do these people do it for free ? There must be some incentive for them, isn't it ?
@@artheaux666 He was just explaining how the industry has changed , as well as the mindset . I prefer lens made in the 80's and 90's on DSLR , over the plastic fantastic over priced lens of today . Why because they are built better .
Wow.. 50 years... you sure are very OLD. And you didn't even get a penny. What a loser.
@ Not everyone is out to make money , photographer's do it for themselves as well .
Jessica, I commend your efforts! You and others like yourself may save this generation. It blows my mind when I think about the money that sports photographers and photographers in general made during the film age compared to now. The photographer's talents were valued. Continue to shout from the rooftops, hopefully the message may take!
So true :) ty for posting and making this video , if you want to get experience, get it with friends and family, not someone who should be paying you for your time
So true!!!
I was told by my friend who is a professional photographer. Never do photography for free, charge at least something. I took that point literally and have continued with that motto. If people want it for free? tell them to get a cardboard sign and stand on a street corner with a sigh "Need $200 dollars for a photo shoot". When you earn enough money, pay my fee and I will do your shoot. Jessica, I am so happy that you expressed your thoughts and really hope everyone follows your lead. Great video It is cool how you tell it like it is!! I am your biggest fan.
I learned the NO is a very powerful word.
I am so glad your addressing this. I hope more people get aware of the issue. It is strange how people just come to us photographers and be like hey can we shoot? People expect it to be free and when I"m like yes of course but not for free they cancel.
Not a photographer but I feel like every project worth their salt should be able to pay. If they really don't have the money, unless it's a charity or something, then how valuable the "exposure" can be?
Hahahaha your comment of "go and build your house for free" was hilarious. The first time watching you tonight and this was the 3rd video I saw. Love your passion!
I'm new to the photography world. I'm a musician. The same thing happened in the music business unfortunately. I think it's happening in the arts in general. You are 100% right.
Jeff Michael this is happening across all the boards of creatives. Music, art, photography, sculpting, etc.... The masters must be rolling in their graves by what is happening to what was created centuries ago
It’s a shame. It takes years to get good at your craft and also the equipment requirements for music,photography, etc. aren’t cheap. It’s sad that people expect a freebie for professional work.
I have learned to hold my ground and decline all that doesnt show any type of good compensation the moment you decrease your price its a wrap
I am actually writing an essay about this. I’m so thankful that you are bringing light to this because it is definitely a problem! Photography as a business should be taken seriously and photographers need to start valuing themselves and their art more because if we don’t, we’ll just keep being played. I will definitely be using this video as a source for my argument!
Funny enough when i was in my 4th year of photography, took this couple from highscool's engagement pictures, priced them out for their wedding. they got a family member to do it for free. but i didn't sweat cause someone told me they regretted it sooo much. last week someone also got "donated" a photographer for their event and didnt go with me, i was cool with it cause i just knew. and both of these people havent posted a singleeee picture from the wedding or event that show i know it was badddd haha
We cancelled one on a bride with entitlement complex a couple weeks ago. I ain't doing wedding for free. I'm pretty sure she found somebody, but I doubt it was a professional photographer cuz most pro photographers are booked this time of year.
A friend asked me to shoot his wedding. I denied as I wanted to be with the couple and enjoy the wedding but I did suggest a few other photographers. They went with someone who without telling them sent someone else and images were so bad. They haven't posted a single image till date.
Pradhyumna Gupta isn’t it crazyyy when they don’t post ANY! Like not even 1 or 2 you know what I mean? That’s how you know it’s bad
Exactly man, I dont think there is a problem with new photographers offering free work, most businesses know you get what you pay for so if you a re getting free work its not going to be as good quality as if you hired some experienced photographer!
My own mom made me do this during a wedding of my aunt. I told her I still need to be paid, she tried to guilt trip me and told me about my "past sins"(I graduated with a medical course but I didnt like it). The deal went sour my cousin and I are still cool but my mom till this day doesnt see it as a job.
PS photography is my part time during the weekends.
YES. Don't. Work. For. Free.
Know your worth, even if you're still learning. And don't work with someone who doesn't value that.
Absolutely--artist and photographers everywhere! Customers who don't know the process won't pay! We know the process, so we should set the rules and the prices.
@@artheaux666 Agreed. Photographers set the standards, customers just follow them.
This! I hate it when people ask to collab and they say, oh it will be really good exposure for you. Grinds me gears! I don't need more exposure, I need to pay rent and pay for the expensive camera gear I bought that I'll be using to shoot your photos. Well said girl!
I started by offering to shoot for free. They gave me reviews and that’s what lead to me making the money I do today.
You don’t always want to shoot for free but for new photographers starting out it’s a good idea. Hate me for saying it but even Peter McKinnon has talked about getting most of his big clients through offering to work for free at the beginning of his career.
Finally, someone who understands. It's a pretty common business practice to give things away for free, especially when starting out. I really don't understand the hate coming to the photographer who took the job.
exactly it;s like the equivalent of an internship.
If a beginner offers the same customer desired quality as an experienced photographer, why would anyone choose an experienced one who charges ?
TheJwwinter if you’re a good photographer you won’t have an issue booking clients. Beginner photographers can build a portfolio by offering free shoots. In my experience those free customers turn into paying customers if you are too at what you do. I also believe in making photography accessible to everyone regardless of income so I will work with anyone on price. Every mom deserves to have great family pictures and beautiful pictures of their kids regardless of ability to pay and that’s just my opinion. So even now I still offer free shoots to people.
They tell people about me, share my photos, they are just grateful and because of that I get good reviews that bring in more paying clients.
It’s not about money all the time and if you go into this business being about money rather than about the client you won’t last.
Being patient and shooting for free is a great way to get your foot in the door. Being accessible even as you grow is an even greater way to bring in clients.
I experience this in a different way as I'm a recording artist and songwriter. I get a lot of people asking for collabs for free and don't give any background on what they want to do, what their idea is overall, and expect me to take the lead on it when 10 it's their song 2) they're not paying me. I get a lot of angry artists that send me a beat and tell me to do something with it and when i don't finish it within a week they get pissed at me. why would I EVER want to work with you if this is the case? don't ask me to write your whole song and then expect it for free or to even be a priority.
Same happens with illustrative or visual artists. Happens all the time. 🤷♀️ I have heard of people having their art stolen to be sold on Amazon and they were _flattered_ because they thought of themselves as a *fricking* hobbiests. They didn’t fight for their time, their effort and skills... hobby or not. It is just sad.
No one will give you exposure - no one can give you exposure. They will forget you and you will never get the exposure you need. When people ask about who painted that picture - they will either forget your name and/or that other person will not EVER reach out to you - much less, pay you for something.
It is a manipulative tactic used by those in power to devalue our time and make us feel we need to do things for free to move into our industry. It is a sham.
💯💯💯
Louder!!! this applies for everyone, photographers, graphic artists, etc. everything she said is true. Thank You Jessica Kobeissi for this wonderful video!
This really makes me always say "one mistake by one photographer leads to loss and blame of othrs " its living by example and professionalism
Totally agree. We live in a freemium society. Everything's either for 'free' or exposure. The whole 'do the shoot for free but charge for usage' is also a bad idea (but better than nothing), because your copyrights are always your copyrights; licensing should be limited to specific usage for a fee and at least the shoot costs. I always charge separate prices for venue/studio costs, photography fee (day rate) and for retouching per photo. That way a client can build a package and have a limited license to use them. Usually, I allow a limited social media license as part of the deal, but press/tv and other media uses, I charge an additional fee. In some rare cases a 'free' opportunity works, but it's hard to foresee what 'freebie collaborations' might pay off. Also there's always someone else coming up the ladder and willing to do free stuff to build experience. A potential client may take advantage of the 'up and comer' and not really care about the quality of work.
MAKE SURE ANY FREE WORK YOU DO HAS A SPECIFIC PURPOSE.
I don't think you should NEVER work for free, but be CHOOSEY about it. Portfolio building? Good reason. Charity work? Good reason. Feeling bad for charging? NOT a good reason.
Whether you work for free or not, always have your terms in writing and ALWAYS set expectations (hours you plan to work on the project, # of photos, retouching, etc) from the very beginning.
I agree with this more than any other comment I saw.
Candid and to the point - let’s not forget those that give an album and negatives to a wedding for under £300 no re-touching, colour correction and badly composed but then they are the grab and runners which can afford a bad reputation but also destroy the industry at the same time. Stick to your guns, your belief in your talent, skill and excellence at what you offer the right clients will value this and pay for your services and you. Let the wrong clients go to the above they get what they deserve and what they are not willing to pay for.
Less than 2 min in but you’ve already made great points that I never thought about, thank you for talking about this!
Oceana Carter another good point is if you have a mirrored dslr camera. Every time you take a photo and the shutter slaps down the more wear and tear is happening.
A dslr camera can only take so many photos. A mirrorless camera will have longer lifetimes than a normal dslr with Mirrors.
Meaning each photo you take cost money. Either you’ll pay for it or they will.. I charge for the amount of time and I calculate in the time how many photos I take, how much my camera costs, and what prints they want comes last.
I'm totally agree! It's exactly the same in the makeup artist business. I have decline many shoots or campaigns because they wanted the work done for free or just for a sandwich and a coffee, however many of my colleagues has done plenty of those campaigns just for the names on the magazine. Your name in a magazine does not pay your rent, the electricity, your expenses and not even the makeup products being used, which by the way aren't cheap. But as you say the ones who does the job for free is ruining the business for themselves and for all of us. I do many many less freelancer jobs than others but at least got paid for my time, creativity and talent. Charging what you think you deserve is not being arrogant, is about self respect for that you are worth.
I’m a beginner I don’t really know what I should charge since I’m still learning
Edit: thanks to all the people in the comments who gave me advice 😊
You could be using models to continue learning and building a portfolio. Thats how you do it for free.
same here
Charge a cheap price. Reasons for the cheap rate is so that you’ll keep learning and getting business
Look at the quality of your work and charge accordingly. Look at what professional photographers are charging for similar shoots and using those figures as a base helps.
I know a lot of beginners who typically will charge around 15-20$ per hour. Being prepared can allow you to work in a timely manner so that the people you’re working with don’t feel pressured to spend a lot of money. And you get experience and pocket change. The better and more confident you get, the longer shoots you’ll be able to do, more you can charge, and more clients. Or you can ask people to model for you so it’s building your portfolio but not at your expense.
Yes, this is true. But the thing is, now everyone has a camera and youtube tutorials. So if you don't have a portfolio, how you make one? i think the 'free photos' phase is for making a portfolio and a name for yourself, cause if you don't you get lost in all of the people w cameras and tutorials. It's sad, but it's the time that we live in.
This is so true. Same goes for illustrators, graphic designers and content makers in general. There are always these opportunist customers coming with the classic "It will give you some exposure" of course it will but your time and energy are valuable. Context is really important too, for instance submitting your work to independent webzines benefits both parties. No need to undervalue your potential in order to develop some sort of experience. It might help the person concerned in a way but by doing so it devalues the whole profession and I can confirm you from a personal perspective that most customers have no shame asking quality work for free. Avoid these ppl at all cost especially if they insist with audacity. Be clear from the start even though they are notorious celebrities.
In the end nothing is really free
Yep, the minute other people start either doing things for free or highly reduced rates it screws everyone else, that's why in theory price fixing is considered bad and illegal but in reality it helps everyone when there is a consistent price for goods and services.
Recently came across post of one girl, who is doing quite nice portraits and in most photos retouch was really good.
So she's offered 50 photos for 40 dollars 🤦♀️ Photographers got really angry, and she explained that not everyone got the money to have a photo and she wanted to help those people. As for me, she's just ruining the business.
Here in Poland price for one decent portrait is from 5 to 20 dollars. But she was charging less then 1 dollar and told she'll give it to klient just the next day!
hope she has fun editing 50 photos lol u get what u pay for
@@grey6031 I bet she had LOL
@@grey6031 sometimes it takes me 1,5 hour to retouch just 1 single photo. sooo...
exactly, it’ll probably be poor quality if she’s doing 50
@@grey6031 I would say average quality would be a little bit poorer, but some of them could be great. The pictures would be taken in similar conditions, so she could edit one photo and apply the preset to other ones. Next, I'm not sure her customer needs 50 photos.They need just one but have 50 to choose. The chance one of 50 photos satisfy the customer is higher than if they were provided a few selected decent portraits. And lower price lowers expectations. So she provides one portrait for $40 that is likely to satisfy her client that would recommend her to their friends.
Well said! Hold your ground, stand up for your work, your skill and your craft. There is no question there are plenty of good photographers who understand their value and make good money doing excellent work. Chances are, if you are giving your work away for free, then it ain't worth a nickel.
working for free for commercial projects is absolutely mental, learn your rights yall. I've joined a fb community named lawtog, where I always learn from various cases, it's us based and i'm in europe so the laws might be differents but it's still good informations to learn, the value we bring to these companies/influencers/etc by making promotional shoots is much more important than what we'll earn, keep that in mind. Cool video and topic Jessica!!
Same problem for basically all independent jobs. Even if not free, cheaper prices is also a big problem.
A director contacted me. He wanted me to take headshots for 30 people in one hour. I was offered $125 for that. I wasn't even mad. I actually laughed out loud when I saw the offer.
This is the opposite advice that I've heard from other photographers like Peter Mckinnon who says to offer your work for free when you're just starting out and if you take great shots, your name will get known and eventually you'll be hired by those who appreciate your work.
@Green Giant yes! I know a few painters who gave me their early work when they were just starting out and honing their craft.
Totally agree!
Even when they say when your just starting out for exposure, whether the end product is perfectly polished or not, your still putting time and work into it that should be paid for.
So true Jessica, i charge minimum 200 for any job
@Paul Lanigan I your idea Paul . But how do you up the price and prove to the customer it's worth the extra.
@@yogibearstech7145 That's when a portfolio on a professional done website comes in real handy.
I completely agree. I do college graduation pictures at my school and already charge an extremely reasonable price, but so many other photographers either work for free or only charge $5 per person (which might as well be nothing) and it is so hard to find paid work because of it.... Thank you for making this video and opening this conversation.
Oh this story is so sad.
At my uni/college we spent four years developing a no tolerance policy in the photo club for no pay. Exactly what you said, small pay minimum.
When the old guard left, some newbie took over and chucked that out the window. Even worse as people were offering to pay (because, you know, they had learned. That photo club will tell you to f.o. if you don't pay), and the new president FALSELY claimed that the club memebers weren't allowed to charge for a (non existent) school policiy *grrrr*. We (the old guard) were freaking furious.
Interesting concept, I will go a little bit further in this conversation and i will talk about Cheap Work vs Free Work. I think cheap work is ruining the business even more because at least in the free work you are more in control to add some value or not and for the other side i would like to open another conversation here and it is Freelancing vs your Brand or Business. As a freelance your situation is not than open to opportunities as a brand or business. So your last point about what is beneficial to you is alright like you said at the end, working with the clients you want etc but i am totally agree that a big establish brand screwing your free is not cool and i will go even futher they are not interested in your work. Same as the person that wants your job for free, you dont need those clients...they will back to you after seeing what they get for free. Really valid points in this video
I just started two months ago in photo/videos and I told the only 4 clients I have in the beginning "I'll do a promo video and pics for 1hr for $50. If you like it my regular prices are _____ if you wanted to continue from now on" That small initial price lures them in.
That is one way of thinking of it. I went into photography with pretty much no portfolio, especially no wedding portfolio, so I shot one wedding for free and from that wedding I got enough photos that I made it look like 3-4 different weddings and I filled my portfolio with it. I then got recommended to their friends who were getting married soon after, and I shot their wedding for the price that I had planned to shoot weddings for. After that wedding I have gotten suggested to a few more couples and I have become a preferred photographer for one of the top wedding venues in my area. So on one hand yes taking free jobs is rough, but you can't just sit there idle asking people to pay for a product or service that is completely unknown to them. You have to show them what you can do for them to be willing to pay.
Jessica! Your voice is powerful and so helpful for photographers. Thank you as always!
I agree!
Agreed 100%. Guys/girls who are reading this, please charge for your work. Don't downgrade the profession or your work by working for free. Time is money, and you need to charge for your time. Also on that note, don't undercharge. Be honest about charging a similar going rate for the job you're doing. Don't be the guy or girl that undercuts by 80% just to say you're charging -- you're still undervaluing the work and profession as a whole.
when you said, "put value to what you do." i really needed that.
Hey 👋 stumbled on this video today and it’s very relevant to me atm. I’ve only just started, like 8 weeks ago and I needed a portfolio, so I was asking about for free shoots. I had no option as I had no work to showcase to actually charge. Thing is my work must be doing something in this short period as I’ve recently had a few inquiries. I said to the first person who asked that it was free and I’m now regretting this, I will need to start charging ASAP because otherwise my work will be unvalued. Last 2 people I’ve added to pay my costs and I will work up from there as my skill levels improve. Thanks for all the content, your channel is helping me improve daily
Thats so sad that photogtaphers arent paid🥺😠 photography isnt easy!😡
Actually it is easy...its not easy to survive as a photographer, but you just need a couple of weeks to find out how a camera works and for light, compositions etc.
@@the0tanr Some people just learn programming in a few weeks/months for example, and they say it is easy, some people learn haircuts in less time, or something like that, so you can´t say that for everyone, for example I´m photographing more serious about 8-9 months, and I still suck, while I am good for example in learning new languages and things like that. But you´re right, photography nowadays is more like better marketing yourself = good.
@@wladynosz1565 You have to learn and practive a lot to achieve good results. You have to devote you live for outstanding photographs. But many people are good at learning medicine; at learning photography? For average person photography is still easier than a lot of other fields.
@Sun Kyong Kim You are talking about basic stuff people in this century have to know. Only people who didnt grew up with the internet would have trouble with all of that.
@Sun Kyong Kim You are making things sound a lot harder than they really are.
Very well said Jessica. Unfortunately, not everyone think like you and I. They pretty don't care. Sad, now alot of starting up business or already established business trying to take advantage and asked models and Photographers, HMUA to collaborate with them for commercial yet and many happily put their hands up. I have seen it daily in my city. It's so hard to turn Photography into a full job now because everyone with a camera called themselves a photographer. Even iPhone Photography is a trend.
Soooo we starting a movement or protest? What should our hashtag should be? Jessica is our leader! :D
A #fairtrade sounds pretty well for me man, but it is already taken and won't sound familiar to this topic, let's make this loud #valueyrsf
Michał Stefański you do know that is the basis for Sue Bryce’s workshop and business program.
She hit the nail on the head with this one. Please creators stop doing free work its killing the ones who actually got a legit business. Get a reward every time you say action and you pose someone.. Get what you deserve
So true! And once people get stuff for free, they expect it for free. Same thing going on in the writing industry for authors too.
I never thought about doing work for free in this way, thank you so much for shedding light on this important issue Jessica
I think fstoppers interviewed one photographer and he said the best thing he ever did was do free work. It basically got him noticed by big brands. Now he is doing projects that are like $50k+
David Penner exactly ONE photographer.
The music industry has a similar problem with other musicians always trying to get ahead of you no matter the cost. Is there something similar to a signing to music label in the photography community and how hard is it when you're just starting free lance? I'm not a photographer but it's inspiring to see someone in art type field doing well. It surprises me how similar the music/photography fields are in terms of someone thinking they're better than someone else and someone with a following doesn't deserve it.