Commodore 64 "Re-Brick" Part 2
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- Опубліковано 1 гру 2016
- I make a retrofit Commodore 64 power supply using the original case and cables, but with new components inside. In this video, we show the basic components used, and get started with mounting inside the case. Stay tuned for part 3, where we hook everything up and see if the house burns down.
- Наука та технологія
Found my parts list! Several people have been asking for it.
1 Mean Well 5v 3a switching Power Supply EPS-15-5
Connectors for above PS: JST VHR 2-pin and 3-pin
Electrical Connectors for above: JST SVH-21T-P1.1
1 panel mount fuse holders Jameco #120994
1 inline fuse holder Jameco #GFS703-R
1 1a 1-1/4" fuse
1 2a 1-1/4" fuse
560 ohm 1/4-watt resistor for LEDs
Blue T-1 LED Jameco #333383
Transformer, 9vac@1A. Example: Linksys A9-1A
Nylon block 2" wide by 1/2" Thick
#4 by 1/2" Sheet Metal Screws
#4 by 3/4" Sheet Metal Screws
18-guage stranded hookup wire
Heat Shrink, various sizes
2-part Epoxy
PC Card Slot Covers
"You can't really have too much epoxy." Apparently this was Commodore's philosophy as well.
My dream is that someday we will have a replica case that has actual mounting points in it, so we can stop using epoxy altogether.
ottumland that would be nice. Great job on these videos by the way. I'm definitely going to rebrick my C64 PSUs eventually. (Right now I'm making due with a C128 PSU with a second C64 aftermarket lead added to it. My understanding is that the C128 PSUs were less susceptible to failure than the C64s. Your solution is far more elegant though, and probably ultimately more reliable.
Have you looked into a 3D printed case that would look mostly original and have the correct mount points?
@@looselycollected7505 It would take somebody with better skills and more experience than I have but I think casting would be a better choice than printing.
Very true. Some printing is better than others. If you did know somebody that could do the modeling to make an STL file, that file could be used to print and check a prototype. The prototype could then be used to price professional casting of the case. I have programs to model STL files and a printer to test with. But I haven't gotten far enough along to do this kind of work yet.
Genius solution, many thanks for an excellent presentation. Ed Miskiv
FYI you can put the wall wart in a vice diagonal corner to corner and tighten the vice until the bottom pops off. No damage to transformer or parts inside. If you don't have a vice, a hammer works fine as you can see. Also just a thought. Did Commodore think about the heat that was generated by the epoxy curing? Just a thought. Guess it doesn't matter now huh.. lol
That's really smart. And you don't have flying plastic bits hitting the dog!
Someone said they couldn't read my parts list, as it was posted over a year ago, so I'm going to post it again:
1 Mean Well 5v 3a switching Power Supply EPS-15-5
Connectors for above PS:
JST VHR 2-pin and 3-pin Electrical Connectors for above:
JST SVH-21T-P1.1
1 panel mount fuse holders Jameco #120994
1 inline fuse holder Jameco #GFS703-R
1 1a 1-1/4" fuse
1 2a 1-1/4" fuse
560 ohm 1/4-watt resistor for LEDs
Blue T-1 LED Jameco #333383
Transformer, 9vac@1A. Example: Linksys A9-1A
Nylon block 2" wide by 1/2" Thick
#4 by 1/2" Sheet Metal Screws
#4 by 3/4" Sheet Metal Screws
18-guage stranded hookup wire
Heat Shrink, various sizes
2-part Epoxy
PC Card Slot Covers
Annie says you're a good man.
I built mine much the same way. Just did not have an original PSU, so the case was obtained from Maplins if I remember corectly. All my parts were obtained from random scrap =-)
I am just wondering, does a transformer for 9 VDC actually outputs 9 VAC when you remove the rectifier/diods?
Should the transformer alone not be something like 7 or 8 VAC?
I just want to make sure to get the correct transformer.
Ever thought about 3D-printing a thicker bottom piece with mount points, then using the top piece simply as a cover?
Yes I sure have. Better yet, something with posts to hold screws in the cover. I dont currently own a 3d printer though.
One more thing. Here's the link to the nylon bar, that I cut into pieces to give a mounting surface for the switcher and something to put lid screws in. www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-x-2-Natural-Nylon-Rectangular-Bar-/232386247906?hash=item361b4cbce2:g:NDsAAOSwPWRZT709
Where did you buy the Nylon Blocks?
Mark Dyrhaug I've been buying half-inch nylon stock on eBay, and cutting it down to the sizes that I need.
Is it important to use a "regulated" DC transformer that outputs 9v exactly? The transformer I tested is kicking out about 14 volts on a multi-meter. I gather this is because there is no load on it.
Should I be concerned with the real output of the transformer when the label says 9 volt?
That seems pretty high. I've seen as high as almost 11v on the 9vac output on some C64 power supplies, so that transformer seems like it's out of spec. I don't think I would use one that has that high an output.
Thanks, I'll keep digging!
I hold my breath every time I power on my C64's using the original power brick. Wish I had the patience and knowledge to do this. The original PSU's are legendary for their ability to destroy C64's, even back in the old days when they were new.
Since I started doing these, a few people have come out of the woodwork to tell me that they've never seen a C64 power supply fail, and they think this is all just an exaggeration. Well, I worked on C64s back in the day, and I saw tons of C64s with dead RAM and other ICs because of failed power supplies! I'm glad theirs haven't failed, but in my opinion, it's not a matter of if, but of when! Nowadays they seem to be failing the other way. The caps have dried out and they produce LOW voltage. Fortunately, this doesn't kill the C64, just makes it not work.
My Commodore 64c power supply died right after the warranty expired, it started blowing the fuse but luckily didn't damage the computer itself. I don't have C-64 anymore though, sold it already in 1991 :/
@@ottumland This must be the issue with my black brick (dry caps). I get a pretty good 5.17V DC so not really any issue there but my AC side is way too low. One pin is around 1.7 VAC and the other around 7.5VAC. Way out of spec!!!!! Needless to say I haven't even attempted to plug this into my C64.
@@Ikrananka Dry caps are definitely becoming more of a problem after 30+ years. But the symptom of dry caps should be a LOW voltage on the +5vdc. There are no capacitors involved with the 9vac output, as it is taken directly from one of the secondary windings of the transformer. Also, I think you're measuring it wrong. The only way to measure the 9vac output is between the top two pins by the notch. Try that and see what you get.
@@ottumland Well, I'm now thoroughly embarrassed. I was indeed measuring it incorrectly. The correct reading is 10.3VAC. Doh!!!! So, it would seem that my supply is "currently" okay but at 35 years old I'm not willing to take the chance and connect it to my C64. Might there be a chance that under load the supply might fail suddenly? Or is the +5V overvoltage failure mechanism a slow degradation as the C64 Wiki (www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Power_Supply) infers with its recommendation for annual checks? According to that my supply at 5.17VDC is a "minor concern" but I'm not that far off the 5.2VDC that the Wiki states indicates the supply is failing and should be replaced.
Did you ever get around to making that Diagram of your Re-Brick PSU? I
d sure like to try making one but there are some holes or questions that would be easily answered by a quick and Dirty Diagram....Thanks, -Mark.
Yeah, I did. It was in the comments of the Part 3 video, but the link isn't working anymore. Here's a new link: s19.postimg.cc/rystw9l7n/Re-_Brick_Schematic.jpg
I have fallen in love with the concept of the Re-Brick after scoffing at the idea! I thought it would be a compromise and way too cumbersome but I must admit WITH the Videos one can clearly see that it can be done and look REALLY Cool with that LED while at the same time looking more aesthetic than other options.
ONE Question: Is that a 2Amp fuse going to the AC line and 1Amp to then DC line? Much Thanks...-Mark.
Glad to hear it! Since I've started making all new power supplies, I haven't done any Re-Bricks for a while, but they use the same components, with the exception of a metal-case transformer with mounting ears that can be bolted down into a case. So to answer your question, the schematic I posted should show the location of the fuses. The 1A fuse is on the AC Line side. The 2A fuse is on the 9VAC output. We know that the transformer is only rated at 1A, but the 2A fuse allows for a brief accidental short of the pins without blowing right away. Commodore used 2A on the 9VAC, and sometimes even 3A! The 5vdc has short-circuit protection on the output. If that gets shorted, it shuts off the output until you cycle power.
Thanks for the responses and sorry to pester you but the Authentic look of the Re-Brick is what got me. Very tough to work with but you did a Great Job! Question: You said, "The 1A fuse is on the AC Line side." did you mean the DC Line? If so, is 1Amp a little tight possibly for someone using an REU or generally loading down they're C64? Also, where is the Ground Wire going to from the AC 115 Power Cord?
Thanks, -Mark.
Mark, did you look at the schematic? I said it and showed it correctly, but maybe I wasn't clear enough. On the 120vac INPUT is a 1A fuse. On the 9vac OUTPUT is a 2A fuse. There is NO fuse on the 5vdc output as the switcher has its own built-in protections. The ground wire goes to the ground lug on the 5vdc switcher, which I may not show on the video, but it's clearly marked on the PCB if you decide to build one yourself. Here's another link to that schematic: postimg.cc/image/gmg8ehcin/
Can I ask what brand of epoxy you use thanks
It's called Stick-Fast. I get it at a local woodworking store. I despise the syringe type, they're wasteful and always end up coming out uneven, despite the fact that they're supposed to be designed to not do that. This is two separate bottles.
You have links to the parts you used on this?
Nope, sorry! You'll have to do a little homework! ;-)
can I use hot glue instead of epoxy?
Duane Wright I wouldn't recommend it. I have never been impressed with the holding power of hot glue. Maybe it's the type of hot glue I've used!
So how much do you charge for these Ottumland?
When I make a batch, I sell them for $50 USD. I dont do it very often though!
I used hot glue so I could pry out components later, if f needed.
Are you still selling these? I have a replacement PSU I use and an original power supply that isn’t working at all anyway but I don’t have the skills to do everything you’ve done.
I haven't made any Re-Bricks for over a year. It's on my list. But I also make the Nu-Brick 64, which has all new parts. I do build those regularly. They are $60 plus shipping. Drop me an email at my username at gmail.com!
Is he still making these
LOL, I think I answered this question under part 3, but here it is again for folks who don't make it that far! I usually bring somewhere between 5 and 10 Re-Bricks to the Vintage Computer Festival Midwest every year, but I haven't built any at all this year. These days, I focus most of my energy on building the Nu-Brick 64, which uses all new parts. Find me on the Commodore 64/128 Facebook group for one of those!
The parts list states that the transformer is 9V AC and the original brick supplies 9V AC. Wouldn't your wall wart power adapter also have to be 9V AC? I'm not an electronics wizard, but I do not think the 9V DC transformer would work. Oh wait. You mentioned discarding the diode and other components. So you turned the DC transformer into an AC? I ended up getting a new 9VAC power supply at a local electronics store instead of the Jameco one I found. It says its outputs at 1.11A but I'm sure the .11 will not be a problem.
Yeah, you got it. I just remove the PCB with the diodes and capacitor, then it's just a plain 9vac transformer. 1.11A should not be a problem.
@@ottumland I noticed your transformer leads on the input side are both black wires. Isn't it important to keep the hot and neutral identified? My transformer has black and white wires on the input side. Both are black on the output side although in looking at it carefully, there is a white broken stripe on one of the wires. This connects to the internal "hole" side of the plug as I expected. :) Sorry to ask so many questions, by the way. I am moving slowly through this project to avoid any mistakes.
No, there's not really any hot and neutral on the transformer itself. So it doesn't matter.
@@ottumland So you're saying it does not matter which pair I choose to work with as long as it has continuity on the other end? There still has to be a hot 9VAC on the output which is electrically connected to the hot on the input side, right? Forgive me, this is another area where my electronics knowledge is lacking. DC is a little easier to follow as there is always a plus and negative and you do not want to get those mixed up.
@@jdryyz When it comes to working with line voltage, you can't be too careful. So I want to be sure we're talking about the same thing. The last question that I answered was to say that there's no hot and neutral on the primary (120v) side of a transformer, so there's no wrong way to connect those wires. But I'm not sure I understand the question about "which pair" you choose to work with. Anyway, there should NEVER be any continuity between primary and secondary. Have a look at a transformer schematic, and you'll see that the primary and secondary windings are not physically connected at all. The AC voltage is transferred via induction, which is a bit beyond the scope of our conversation here. Make sense?
Major problem here is this is illegal to sell. Anything connected to line voltage must be UL approved. Also to avoid orher crimes you need to remove the old approval tags. YOU CAN NOT SELL THESE. You can only do this for your own use.
I see. Well, unless you work for Underwriters Laboratories or are planning on turning us all in yourself, I don't imagine anyone is really going to care about us hobbyists keeping our beloved C64s alive.
I know this is an old comment on an even older video but this is absolutely false. The Underwriters in Underwriters Laboratories is short for Insurance Underwriters. The UL are two private businesses providing safety testing for insurance underwriting and marketing purposes. They are not regulatory bodies. There is nothing that says anything connected to line voltage must be UL listed. The closest you get is sections of the NEC requiring UL listed devices, like circuit breakers, in areas where the NEC has been codified. While I'm at it, the NEC does not constitute law either. It's published by the NFPA, the National Fire Protection Association, an insurance industry trade association, and only becomes a legal issue when a locality codifies it by incorporating it in the local regulations.
If you look around your own place close enough you're going to find things that plug in that aren't UL listed. It was perfectly legal for them to be sold and it's perfectly legal for you to plug them in. The only issue you may encounter is if something does go wrong and your place burns down around you or somebody is electrocuted, your insurance carrier may refuse to cover the damages because you were using something that wasn't approved by the insurance industry by being UL listed.
When it comes to power supplies, he is free to refurbish them and he is free to sell them. The only real issue is his potential liability if something were to go wrong after the end user puts one into operation. The odds of that are zero to nil and in the negatives. The Meanwell EPS 15-5 isn't UL listed but it does carry TÜV certification which is a functional equivalent in the US. As long as the transformer is an isolation transformer and coming out of a wall wart it will be, the end user will be isolated from the mains. All that's left is to ensure they are mounted with proper clearances and they more than likely are. He does not have to remove the UL mark as he is not marketing a refurbished power supply as being UL listed or using the UL mark to help promote his product.