Here's another look at the many shades of gray in this tragic story of Muhammed Hassan, with Angela Benevides of Explorers Web, called Clients Won't Save You: Won't Save You: ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
i come from a family of mountaineers, I was raised in a spirit of solidarity on the mountains. My father and grandfather would be shocked to see this. Rest in peace Muhammed.
Thank you for watching, I have a couple new videos on the same subject, including an interview with Kristin Harila about her summit push on K2. Cheers and thanks!
He was killed by the company that hired him, not by the people who couldn't or didn't help him. Sent up there with no oxygen, no gear, and probably not a lot of experience.
Exactly. But regardless of fault, once he became immobile, it was over. What should people do? How would you get him down with all the people en route already? Yes, you have to get him down to save him, but you literally can't without killing even more people.
These peak baggers aren't the kind of people I'd want to spend a lot of time with. Steindl on the other hand is a man of genuine integrity and worthy of deep respect.
There's actually a name for this: Diffusion of Responsibility. When there are many people around at the time of a crisis, everyone assumes someone else will deal with it. You're far more likely to get help if there are only a few people nearby.
They should change it to an Explosion of Responsibility for all, everyone needed get on it, keep him warm, etc. People stepping over him is disturbing, and people can ask if he is ok with their voices, and to ease him for God's sake ... a life or the summit, I'll pick a life even if he passes end of. Disgusting that people can't understand a life means all, hiking means nothing in the moment you see a person hurt. The people who said nothing to climb should be ashamed, and I feel God was there crying for the man.
I have to disagree this was a ledge they were walking on with not much space. You don't have much space for more then 3 people to help and you would have needed 6 or more
If you cannot stand on your feet at the bottleneck of K2, it’s all over for you. This is the sad reality of high altitude mountaineering. Everest at that height? Maybe a rescue can be made. On K2, it would take weeks or months of preparation, a large dedicated team, and it still might not be possible. Most people just have no idea what it’s like up there. He was given supplemental o2 and still did not respond. You can either go up, or go down and mourn, those are your options. Now the woman that was partying at base camp after the summit, that’s a problem, true mountaineers don’t behave this way.
There is a lot more than you could do for that man. Trying to wake him up to get his last will, a last message to his relatives, or just stay there with him, give up on you stupid summit and join his suffering as he leaves this world.
The question here is the consumer attitude towards porters, for them porters are consumables. Porter died not because of a fatal accident, but because he was not prepared for such an ascent, he did not have the appropriate equipment, he did not even have a down suit. The team knew about this and they all took it exactly because they probably didn’t have enough people. They say that they gave money to buy equipment, they say that they told him not to go higher, but this is all from their words, since the dead will not answer them. I don’t believe that someone gave him money, and rather, on the contrary, they told him that if he didn’t go higher, he wouldn’t receive the money, but I don’t believe that the team made 14 ascents and that when they tell him not to go up, the porter would disobey and go. ... The blame for his death lies entirely with the team, which admitted an unprepared porter and did not provide him with equipment. And then, instead of admitting their guilt, they made excuses until the last day, they didn’t even help the porter’s family. As a result, other climbers helped the porter’s family; he left behind a wife and children. And as for rescue, in 1996 Anatoly Boukreev saved 3 people on Everest, but K2 is not Everest, but then in a storm with zero visibility everyone refused and climbers and Sherpas not went to save people, and sat in tents, that is, then everyone thought that in such weather it is impossible to save people, but Bukreev did the impossible. In general, stories in the mountains say that nothing is impossible for a person... But for Kharila and the company that organized her ascent, the question is not about salvation, but about their vision after, they are not worthy to call themselves climbers after this. If they had admitted their guilt in allowing and equipping this porter, helped the porter’s family, and apologized, then I would have no questions for them.
@@user-hu9mv2jt9mI suspect youre right about Hassan only being paid if he went higher. You should also note that Anatoly Boukreev only actually saved members of his own MM team, not any from Rob Halls team.
@@ferreira8649 Yes I dont think anyone could be rescued on that ice cliff, underneath that huge serac, I believe, and with that line of people locked in to a single file up there. But there's also so many untold stories, so many secrets that still remain, up on those places.
Compassion is great and necessary, but it's not sufficient. You should not endanger more people to attempt an obviously hopeless rescue. Everybody here is writing at basically Sea level and in warm rooms. At 8200 m and freezing temperatures, this is all a whole different ball game. What needs to end it's the predatory industry that has grown around summiting the 8k's
Very common in emergency circumstances. Unless someone takes charge, you have a crowd of people doing nothing- in this case almost 80 people. The majority of blame probably falls on the guides and team leaders- the professionals- for failing to lead. I'd like to think that comes down to poor SAR/first aid training, but it makes one wonder what would happen if one of their own clients got into trouble...As a client, you should consider how much effort would be put into your survival by others on the mountain.
Thank you for putting these interviews together. There is so much speculation and assumption that happens in these situations. It's important to get the first hand accounts. I feel so terrible for Hassan and his family and am glad to see that the gofundme is being successful.
I appreciate that you took the time to comment, thank you. Yes, the success of the gofundme is over and above what anyone might have expected. Nothing will replace the father, however, they will at least grow up knowing that people do care enough to help. That goes a long way.
I think you hit the nail on the head here in your intro: the commercialization of these 8k meter peaks leads to inexperienced climbers paying to get to the top. They can barely help themselves let alone someone else. If there were a climbing experience requirement of some kind to climb these mountains- be it tested skill or previous climbs- perhaps less of these tragedies would occur. You'd have fewer overall people climbing, and those who were would be experienced enough to know their limits, know how to gauge weather, and be comfortable enough to render aid to other climbers.
As you say, it is difficult to determine whether a rescue is even possible at this altitude and in this environment... I'd hope that If I found myself in this situation I would choose to try and help this individual instead of summiting, to turn back and pursue professional aid rather than pushing on.
It’s not only about giving up the summit to try and help. If you choose to help, you’re risking your own life. You’d have gone back to get help? You’d unclip yourself from the rope to go over 70 people in that narrow space and go and get help? Things are not that simple up there.
I admire the young man who took it upon himself to visit this man's family. A true hero. Made the choice to go back & still after the tragedy he went to visit his family. Well done sir, truly heartwarming to see. 🙏🏼🫶🏻🙏🏼🌻
The whole mountaineering industry kind of disgusts me....Rich people ticking off their bucket list on the back of poor workers on top of the environmental destruction caused by these expeditions
Yes, plus the filth and trash left all over mountains too. No one is that impressed anymore with getting to the top because its just so common now and not special either.
I've been trying to figure out if there really was a way to help Hassan. I don't know if people realize how high up on K2 the bottleneck is ... and that it is the most dangerous part of the mountain due to being in the death zone with sn apartnent-size serac hanging above the climbers, ready to kill them all at any moment. Climbers know to get out of there asap. It was reported that two sherpas & a climber pulled him up on the ledge & gave him oxygen in the hopes that he would stand up. Without the ability to stand & take direction, he would not be able to be short-roped down. Hassan did not bring back-up oxygen. The standing around & waiting, depleted everyone's oxygen. The sherpas probably realized that they would need 4-6 very experienced climbers to even attempt this rescue,while risking their own lives, because Hassan couldn't even hold his own body up. K2 is steep without any areas for rest, so I can't see how they could have gotten him down without a bit of his his help & without risking their lives as well. Also, everyone is low on oxygen that close to the summit - esp when wasting oxygen while waiting - which is why some turn back. Btw ... Sherpas are paid by the climbers - most of whom are not rich, but had saved half of their lives for this. The more summits a sherpa has on his CV, the more $$$ he can charge in the future ($15-$40,000) in a country where the average income is around $300/year. Everyone has a lot at stake. Most wouldn't know how to plan or execute a rescue on such a technically, avalanche-prone "killer" mountain anyways ... and the experienced mounrsineers & sherpas know how to recognize when a person has succumbed to cerebral/pulmonary edema. Poor Hassan & his family. He was new at this and had no idea of what he would be facing. He was improperly dressed for such cold and without back-up oxygen. He just needed some guidance & rules of surviving in the death zone. It's incredibly sad that no one bothered to take him under their wing & tesch him. I'm basing my opinion on what i have read, as well as Hassan's complete collspse. (Sorry that this is so long).
Thank you for your insight and thoughts about the situation on K2 and beyond. I'm happy that you took the time to watch and especially to have made such a thoughtful comment. I'll bring more on this story very soon.
The 15-40 000 dollars one climber pays goes to a whole team of sherpas and porters. All of them have high costs involved in training, gear that is way out of their budgets, travelling to and from, surviving at the base camp(tents, food, medical and other supplies) etc. And the job has a 25% death rate which definitely comes with a premium compared to the average yearly salary of the country (specially if you compare it in a country where the majority falls below the poverty line.. the real poverty line.. like no food no shelter level.. not the ones in west where poor people still own concrete homes and have subsidies and support from governments)
Thank you Thom, This video definitely had me tearing up. Im totally amazed at the people who attempt any mountain and put their goal a head of helping others. I always thought that mountain climbing was about everyone coming home alive! I couldn't live with myself if I stepped over someone needing help and didn't put their wellbeing above summiting, maybe its being a nurse for thirty years and helping others that makes me think this way but I truly believe I couldn't live with myself if I summited at the expense of someone else's death without.....trying to do the right thing. Im left speechless and truly disappointed at the people who attempt to summit big mountains with no humanity.
The last comment made here,..makes sense. Make a portion of the "cost of the climb", an insurance fund for the guides and sherpas. It seems fair, and logical. This makes me sad, that people are treated so.
The moral decision to climb over an injured climber is not made in the moment. One decides, long before ever reaching the mountain, that no help will be proffered regardless of dire need. Climbing is nothing if not the most brutal and narcissistic hobby I have ever seen. Not helping is not the anomaly, it is the norm.
Agreed yet it may be their norm but it is not the norm of human beings. I have enough info to confidently say I would diagnose the climbers with Narcissistic Personality Disorder with sociopathy and or psychopathy. They are not my patients therefore it is my professional and personal view that I believe is to be spot on accurate. One’s moral compass does not differ from place to place or situation to situation or person to person. One who justifies twisted dark actions by inferring that the moral compass is different on a mountain than a river or a city than the country side, and so on..any being who has the audacity to speak on morals like this have no morals, they do not believe in them.
@@indigoastrealaluna2808You are not certified to classify anyone as anything. And that's the rules. He knew what the rules were before he made the trek. When you're in the bottleneck, stopping for any amount of time is crazy dangerous in many ways. Going back is borderline impossible, so many of those people didn't have a choice but to continue, based on how many people were lined up there. The truth is that if you were in that position you wouldn't and couldn't do anything differently.
The rules are there for a reason btw. Go look up what happened to the last guys who tried saving someone in the bottleneck. Spoiler alert: they died. This is why you're told in advance that if this happens to you in the death zone, you're not getting rescued.
100%....a rescue up there would likely have led to more death. Here's a follow up of this video called K2's New Reality: ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
I'm not a climber so maybe I have no right to judge anyone for the decisions they made that awful day. However, I can't help but be reminded of the words of Dr. Houston when speaking of Art Gilke. He didn't believe he would survive, but they had to give him every chance. They picked him up and the whole team started down the mountain, and continued down even after the avalanche swept Art away. Tell me, is it really so hard that a few men couldn't drag him down to a tent, give what 1st aid they could and either wait for a rescue team or care for him until he died? I'm ignorant here, but I feel so hurt for this man knowing he was literally reaching out, begging for help.
Not ignorant at all, enlightened i would say and as a climber of 19 years I would rather climb with you and your attitude than any of these modern die hards. Gone are the days of adventure. Nowadays its get someone else with far less money, resource and choice than you to do the hard work and you just hike up their fixed ropes without regard for anything other than your summit push. Selfish beyond belief and I have no respect left for any of these so called climbers. No right to be there any of them. About time the mountaineering industry took a long hard look at itself. Shame on you all and your vacuous dreams.
True. I have this sort of discussion with many people obsessed with results. The journey is as important, sometimes more important as along the way you learn more about yourself. Have also watched a lot of videos where the trams talk about equipment etc before the push, it may be edited, but i havent seen one where they discuss helping others or what to do in that situation. For many of the climbers the first time they learn about crampons or oxygen masks and tanks is just prior to having to use them. It still amazes me that with all the money spent, climber still take russian roulette on the used masks they are provided with.
So true. There were 80 people there. They could have done something. Shared all their oxgyen instead of that one camera man being the only one to share. They were clearly only caring about getting to the top. Because they had already accomplished an incredible goal. They could have all stopped and helped and summitted the following day.
You are comparing apples to oranges. You are comparing team of highly skilled climbers that made an attempt to save on of their own with people that cannot help themselves and expect the latter to perform high attitude rescue attempt that is doomed to fail. I doubt if one of the clients of many expeditions would be in same situation at bottleneck, any rescue attempt would be even tried.
I'm curious as to what you would do in this situation, Thom. Was there ever a 'gentleman's agreement' when you were on Everest to 'let nature take it's course' if someone encountered difficulties? Is it even feasible to help someone that high?
@eleventhmonkeygaming9476 do you step over people in other situations, the hurt or the hurting. You can’t save everyone, but just because we aren’t on Everest, or K2, doesn’t mean we can’t donate a tin of beans to charity, say good morning to a homeless person. This is, whether we like it or not, our culture. And not all homeless people have made bad choices. Sometimes circumstances really do hit. Everyone, with any risky choice demands respect, because they are human.
@eleventhmonkeygaming9476You wouldn't try to get him down because if you'd climbed up it would be absolutely clear to you that you couldn't get him down.
So crazy… even facing certain death in wars 100’s of years ago. Their guts hanging out, someone would stay and help the fallen. So sad. Humans are so awful now 😢 bet if that was one of the rich people paying instead of the help they would have cared.
No, they wouldn't have. And if you were in this position (somehow) 100 years ago, they definitely wouldn't have cared at all. They were less empathetic back then.
its so tragic, the summit is never worth a human life, no matter how much money youve spent, no matter how much work youve put in to reach this point, if you need to turn around to even just maybe save someones life you do. i hope hassan can rest in peace
You say no one stopped and everyone kept stepping over him but then say the couple stayed with him probably 2 hours and their camera man shared oxygen then even show footage of people comforting him. I’d never make this excursion so I’m not sure of protocol but what were all of those people supposed to do? Rest in peace to this man 😞
Totally agree....the two additional videos which are linked in the notes of this one will give more depth to the story as well as the gray areas of what happened. It's not all black and white....saving this man may well night have been impossible. Thanks for watching, truly appreciate it
The human species is a self-serving and selfish species. I could find no glory or satisfaction on the summit if I had to step over and ignore an injured fellow climber to get there.
There’s nothing climbers can do on the narrow paths when others fall or run out of oxygen. It’s important that novice climbers not attempt to climb. Those people jeopardize others & could cause the death of many.
He wasn’t a novice climber, he was an exploited young man in a desperate situation. They stood by and watched him climb without as much as a down jacket then stepped over his body when he passed. The only ones putting people in danger are the westerners who created this industry for their own ego. They take advantage of destitute people who they treat as completely expendable just to be the “first white lady with dreads from Norway to climb mt Everest helicopter style.” Like bfr
I've written a number of times in the comments section of videos similar to this that.. if wealthy people pay a lot to kill themselves on mountains...fair enough. That's what they want to do. But what is just unacceptable is the way they usually kill porters and people labelled "guides"..generally people from poor countries who are paid not much, treated badly, and viewed as expendable. When I have a look at the reactions to my comments. I NEVER see people saying "yes that is bad". Not a bit of it. I gets reams of people saying "they get paid more than they would if they stayed at home" "it's a lot of money for people like them" (I kid you not. "people like them")or the disgusting "they knew the risks". So as far as I can tell, the people who watch videos about mountain climbing are the eye poppingly selfish, and inhumane.
Please check out some of the polls I've posted on this channel, and the answers and comments will be of interest to you, I'm sure. Thank you for your thoughts....truly appreciated. And thank you for watching!
How do you get people to give up a prize they spent so much money to get? How about making another prize that is more coveted? Something not everyone can have. A rescue metal of honor. For those who gave up the summit to help rescue another. A patch to sew on and even a cash reward with a ceremony. Golfers get the green jacket, there are bravery metals, etc. Publish it in papers and magazines etc. Just a thought.
Rendering aid with oxygen, clothing etc. is possible and moral. Unfortunately, the narrative is usually based on a false choice - if some people had stopped they could have saved Hassans life. That is delusional.
We also need to look at things from another side. He is totally unprepared obviously climbed with inappropriate dressing and gear most likley never been exposed to this harsh and dangerous climbing environment. An almost 90 degree super iced and dangerous wall where he falls. I cant imagine how any montaineer can attempt to take him down without himself most likely losing his life. Who on this wall wants to stay stationary there waiting for potential avalanches to kill them. Who willingly is going to give up his own needed oxygen ? Its all good to blame and humiliate and shame these other people and shred them to pieces for not being heroes who don't wish to run into the fire to save someone elses lifes and get killed along the way. My motto: unless it is safe for yourself you don't need to be anyonelses hero. And NOBODY on that wall was remotley 10% safe. Anyone going on this dangerous climbing expedition is responsible for what happens to them. Your doing this willingly and you need to deal with the consequences. And i find it really insulting using " westerners " its like making statements about a type of people. Discriminating
Yes we discussed this in the video. Nothing is gained by excoriating people, especially when we have no clue what it would be like up there. I have a video coming out today that you will enjoy. Please keep an eye out or hit notifications. Thanks for watching.
It really leaves a bad taste in my mouth after seeing what happened to Hassan. I realize it must be very expensive to go on climbing expeditions such as that. However, no amount of money is worth more than someone's life. I would've stopped and tried to get him down. I'll pray for his family.
There was nothing anyone could do. That's dangerous territory. All their lives are at risk at that point. There was no way to get him down. I don't know about how moral they are, that's the thing. It's really so sad.
It's the bottleneck. He shouldn't have been on the mountain, but it was his choice. Unfortunately he couldn't be saved before he fell. If you hear what actually happened and where it was, there's no choice but to step over up or down, but going down they'd have to step over up to 100 pll and is ridiculously dangerous anywhere, forget the bottleneck. Only one person could stay with him and one person did. He didn't even have down clothing amd was likely experiencing high altitude sickness and hypothermia. There was no rescue available. In the death zone they have to keep moving or they will die.
@@dana102083most westerners shouldn’t be on those mountains either but they have the money to endanger the lives of the poor and desperate. What’s your excuse for the party they had afterwards? Cause idc how much you like mountains and the outdoors, there’s something fundamentally wrong with you and your humanity if you can have a party hours after stepping over a dying man. That should be a life changing, traumatizing event….. for anyone with an ounce of humanity/empathy.
I don't agree with blaming the other climbers. The mountaineering industry has become a complete farce, but the height is still as deadly as ever. They tried to rescue him as much as possible, but there is virtually no way to get people down from there. How exactly do you want to get him down? Nobody can do that at K2. Nobody attempted a rescue because it was hopeless.
The sad thing is women in this part of the world aren’t allowed to get an education and work so they are solely dependent on the husband or son. It’s truly a sad situation.
Thats why I have more respect for military soldiers. They will never leave their comrade in danger behind. One is to die for his country, the other is to die for K2. Sad.
The way that this person's death was handled (among other things) has tarnished my opinon of the people that paid to climb the mountain. And, especially, those people that were paid to lead them to the summit.
Totally understand. I've done two additional videos on this topic, here's one that gives some more insight into human behavior: ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html Thank you for watching!
I think under normal circumstances everyone would try to help, but there was a long line of people, they were already exhausted themselves and most likely had 0 knowledge abt rescue operations in the mountains, people were left behind in the past, he shouldn’t have been a porter there in the first place. This guy just talks but I wonder what he would have done in the situation, it’s easy to pretend to be so nice but it’s not really helpful
Thanks so much for the interview. The gentleman you interviewed was right. Everybody has come up with some excuse. You know that there is no guarantee that a person will survive even if brought down, but somebody had to have seen that he did not have the necessary gear. I fear that people have lost their Humanity!
Thanks for sharing informative docs, but its fact that he was not inexperience it was just an accident, and he can be rescued by the mountaineers on K2, but the humanity died there.
Hey again! I'd love to hear your take on Arlene Blum's expedition to Annapurna. Great work as always. You really keep the dignity of these folks. Being a climber yourself i really appreciate your educated take on these inspirational stories
I'm not sure if this sounds silly but, with little to no experience, the cost to climb that mountain should cover the cost to climb with a rescue team, a professional rescue team for each individual.
Totally agree. I did a video this year that discussed the idea of mandating that there are rescue teams in place, especially with the advent of commercial 'tourism' climbing. The video is called 'About K2' and we talk about a tragedy there in 2023 and circle around this idea of rescuing: ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html Thank you for watching, glad that you found it and visited the channel!
As an avid rock climber, I understand risk, liability, and that people engage in this type of activity knowing of the dangers. But still.. I like to think I wouldn’t be able to step over a dying climber in order to reach my goal. I feel numbers have something to do with it. Were it 7 people instead of 70, I wonder if they would have acted so coldly. I hope not. Another proof that group mentality and gregarious instincts can reveal the darkest in humans.
This is difficult for me to write. ... Back in the 1960s I wanted to become a climber, actually a mountaineer. There is a difference. Life got in the way, we had kids and responsibilities prevented following my dream. I always felt I had missed the "brass ring." NO LONGER!! I am more than happy to not be associated with the mountaineering community as it has currently evolved. It seems in that community there are classes of people, perhaps even a "caste system." There are those who are "served," and there are those who "serve." Those who are served could give a rat's patootee about those who serve, "the little people." In this case Hassan was simply another obstacle in a grand adventure. His name will not even show on the summit certificate the summiteers will hang on their wall. He will soon be forgotten, but the summiteers will be toasted as heroes for years to come!?!?!?!?!?!
These are people who have money more than I will ever dream of. But I don’t think the behaviour was callous. I think we are told all the time, don’t get involved, let the experts, let the professionals. People do step forward on planes, when asked to. I was homeless, very few people talked to me. But people are scared. I was young and female. I wasn’t begging but sometimes got given food. It’s life. People assume things. They assume that homeless couldn’t happen to them, couldn’t be real. Maybe I had a house (I didn’t). I got thrown out of stations where I was sheltering. Not platforms, the foyer. I was an eyesore that might pickpocket, steal or beg. I did none of these, I took no drugs, I just fell through a loophole in society. And every single person I met assumed the worst. I did nothing wrong other than getting ill. This isn’t a K2 problem. Like me Mohammed got ill at work. Unlike me his work had much higher risks. Do you know how many people stepped over me? Do you know how long it took me to have someone listen and try and help. It was a policewoman. It wasn’t her job. I was trespassing in the porch of a public building. My eyes shutting because I couldn’t sleep at night. Mohammed was working in an area he had not enough equipment or experience in. I know that when I get ill at work recently that although my workplace will do the bare minimum, my government will pay my basic living costs until I crawl back to work. If the Pakistani government has people working on K2, and is charging for this, then included in that fee should be worker rescue. The people paying so much money can pay for basic employee care. And if it’s not safe to bring someone injured down, then yes to sit with them. Someone needs to have some basic rules for emergencies in place. Teams do look after each other. But knowing who is on what team is crazy. If people pay to go, they can pay for rules. The rules have always been ‘no rescue from the death zone’ as so many rescuers have died. Does that need reevaluating with no technology. One extra thing in the mix. That everyone here has only so much oxygen. Death happens fast up there. Everyone is walking around with hypoxia. You physiologically cannot think well. It’s like being drunk. I don’t think it’s Western v poorer countries although there is so much poverty where do you start. Having worked my adult life with the disadvantaged after my experience, I want to ask everyone how many people and situations that they have walked past this week. People like I used to be, that they have literally stepped over. My views on the world shifted dramatically when city dwellers stepped over me on their way home. When I literally hadn’t eaten or really slept for a week. Yes climbing over a dying person is horrific. But who are we, who step over people daily to judge. I wanted water and sanitary towels not sandwiches. When I spent too long in the bathroom mopping up my period with tissue, security were called because it was assumed I was taking drugs. Obviously, because a homeless young woman must take drugs, not have a period. They kicked the door in and ‘removed’ me. I give money to charities abroad as well as here, because no one deserves that. It’s a cultural phenomenon where ‘they’ are not human somehow. I don’t know. I agree we need to support the widow. But we all need to take a look at ourselves and our everyday thoughts. Could we acknowledge someone, signpost someone, accept that drug addicts still need clothes, water, sanitary products, and respect. Not walk over someone who has no access to a toilet.
this is just heartbreaking. This poor man, treated like trash, and his desperate family... thank you Willie for what you did for them. I cannot help but wonder if the climbers stepping over him and choosing their ambition rather than helping a fellow human being, considered him of less worth because he was not one of them, a poor man, a worker, and a worker who was not white and so beneath their notice.
They just valued their own lives and families above his. Is it a great, happy thing to witness? No. Is it completely justifiable? Yes, yes it is. You're told before you come anywhere near K2 that you WILL be left to die if you find yourself in a position like this. That's the rules and the rules are there for a good reason. Rescuing people from the bottleneck has already resulted in multiple fatalities and to my knowledge, noone has ever been rescued while in that bad of a state.
I have a couple other stories from this event, one being an interview with Kristin Harila, and another an interview with Explorers Web journalist Angela Benevides. Thanks for your support!
@@filipferencak2717 do you think this was also extended to the workers? Really? The man was inadequately clothed.. why didn’t the people who hired him made sure he had proper clothing? It reeks of indifference and carelessness on the part of those in charge…
@@daniadejonghe4980 Yes, it was extended to the workers. Especially so, since they are on average far more knowledgeable than the tourists. He knew the risks, I can guarantee you that. I personally feel really bad for him, as he was doing this to support his family. That being said, blaming these people is ridiculous. The real villains are the ones you mentioned, the companies.
This is frightening. Of all the mountain stories where people continue climbing when someone dies, I am not surprised, but to step over someone asking for help on the way UP? Shocking. Gives new meaning to the phrase “surrounded by people but alone”. Do you think it was because he was “just” a porter?
It was because it was in the bottleneck, which is literally one of the worst places on Earth to attempt a rescue. You could be Elon Musk and you would still be left for dead if you were in that state.
This is the mountains version of the BYSTANDER EFFECT... ( bystander apathy ) for those who have never heard of this it refers to a phenomenon in which the greater the number of people there are present, the less likely people are to help a person in distress.
People need to understand there's nothing one can do for someone so high up on the mountain the more experienced climbers are partially to blame. Why would you take an inexperienced climber so high up it's pure madness
Hmm yeah thas crazy how they didnt just carry him down the mountain. It would have been so easy and totally possible. Now, lets figure out why the survivors of the titanic didnt just swim down and rescue the ones still trapped in the boat? Or why Hawaiians didnt just walk through the wildfires and carry out the ones that were burning? Can anyone figure out why? Anyone? 😂
That this video discussed the very idea that a rescue was darn near impossible was obviously lost on you....but the troll made an appearance nonetheless.
thats not a boyscout camp, thats extreme high altitude climbing. Everyone who has made decision to climp up there has commited to the hard reallity that above 6500-8000 meters there is no help coming and youre on your own. though luck. Now all those knights in shining armor preaching moral high grounds should ask themeselves what they could have done realistically? Not much.
Agreed. Everyone in comments is acting like it was a simple task that was left undone. Anyone attempting to rescue him puts their own life at risk. And not knowing all the facts 20/20 hindsight is easy.
I'm not a climber and I'm not sure why the algorithm brought me this video. But what I now know have changed my opinion on these selfish "adventures" and will not be impressed when I hear someone having climbed one of the "big ones again". There's nothing great about having poor people practically building a ladder and dragging your ass up a mountain, before stepping over their dying bodies in order to take a selfie. - Especially when many other people did the same thing at same time you did.
I personally am very happy that the algorithm brought you here, and that you saw a video that inspired you to comment. Thank you! I've since done two other videos on the topic...sharing somewhat different viewpoints of the story. I really hope you'll stick around and check out some of the other offerings on the page. Here is one of the videos I did to follow-up the one you watched: ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html Cheers and thanks again!
I now see K2 and Everest as the most expensive graveyard above the clouds. Overall those stories hit quite hard, even though I want to say "They signed for this" and dismiss it. I can´t. It´s not that easy, I helped several times people when they blacked out or had epilepsy. I assure you, they are afterward dead weight, hard to manipulate even on flat surface. Personally I CAN´T imagine this happen on the terrain like mountain. We might critize them from our warm place - but hell, even if they WOULD (and should) call help, rescuers have to climb up and go through all those masses of tourist there and back (passing incoming tourists). It´s insanity and I would never go there, knowing this would traumatize me and spoil whole climb. Not to mention all this tourism destroys both mountains with waste and sadly unlucky climbers. This is prime example how uncivilised we are in mutliple layers!
I don't understand how these mountaineer companies don't have policies and procedures in place for this kind of thing?? In any other environment a medical emergency would be taken more seriously. A lack of action would normally result in negligence lawsuit. 🤷♀️
There are two videos that followed this interview that will shed much more light on the story, revealing the gray areas. Here is Kristin Harila's first person account of that day: ua-cam.com/video/gyIuZBBBAFk/v-deo.html And here is a closer look at the big picture: ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html Thanks for watching! Much appreciated
It was takem seriously but they had no other option that wouldn't had them killed. Most of the highest high altitude rescues had been successful at mount everest on the northern route. It does demand a high degree of coordination and climbers able to be ready at short notice able to ascent or descent many hundrets of meters in highest altitude which is hardly possible
Really shocking what people will stoop to when they want to satisfy their ego and have a sense of accomplishment by climbing a mountain, which in the real world means nothing. The situation certainly exposed all those who stepped over him simply to stand on top of a mountain. The fact that they also trash the mountain by leaving behind their garbage and empty oxygen bottles further demonstrates a lack of respect for the mountain as well. If you packed it in, you should pack it out. Pakistan and Tibet really need to start cracking down on these behaviors.
It's interesting that the same person who has the sticktuitiveness, mental and physical strength needed to singlemindedly push themselves to succeed at summiting a death-zone mountain as an amateur is the same person who would step over someone to GET to that summit.. I've hiked and backcountry camped in the Cascades, Appalachians and other places, but I KNOW I don't have what it takes to climb Everest.. What I DO have is the soul to STOP my summit bid to SIT with a dying man for as long as I could.. That's the LEAST I could do.. I couldn't live with myself if I left him to GO UP.. to continue that single- minded trudge towards.. Accomplishment? I UNDERSTAND how/why someone could continue and think "someone else will do it" .. "I can't..bc I'm not ___ enough" ..strong? Don't have enough O2? I don't want to judge anybody because not only was I not there, but I personally would rather have a clear conscience than a mountain in the bag.. I'm not trying to be. I'm speaking only for myself.. I wonder if the sherpa felt obligated to stay with their clients.. I can't imagine anyone being able to do a rescue for someone who is non-ambulatory at 24,000+ feet, but if Hassan was reaching out for people, he was at least somewhat cognizant .
To the Despicable 73: For many years there has been an unwritten but absolute rule that, if you come upon someone in distress on the sea or in the mountains, you must do all you can to assist, despite any risk or danger to yourself. Many have died doing so. You failed. Don't come back to the mountains. You are not worthy or welcome. When you tell your grandkids how you tamed K2 be sure to tell them how you had to step over this pesky Pakistani but the after-party was great, hey?
I respect your take, but hope you'll take time to watch this video that takes a deeper look at the human element, where there are some gray areas (esp at 8200 meters): ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
Thanks yes I saw that and absolutely understand that all sorts of factors come into play. At the same time there's a bottom line - these people did nothing - and have to be held to account for that. Ed Hillary, commenting on David Sharp, said "I don't think it matters a damn if he was a member of another party...he was a human being and we would have regarded it as our duty to get him to safety." I think the only ones who can make a difference are the commercial operators. Maybe they can be pressured into offering big discounts to a couple of real climbing experts for each group who can make up a strong rescue team who can practice, plan etc at BC, on the understanding they will climb with the group but will help those in deep distress if necessary. That would be a badge of honour as opposed to one of shame I think
Your clearly have never made an ascent in the Himalayas under these circumstances and your "rule" is not and cannot be the rule there. Easy to judge from your armchair. Endangering more people to effect a dubious rescue is beyond irresponsible. The fact that rescue is impossible is unfortunate, but that's the reality of extreme climbing in the Himalaya. Anyone ascending at extreme altitude should be at peace with that possibility.
I think the situation is closer to swimming or boarding out to help someone being attacked by a shark. What's really interesting is to find out what you actually do do in that situation. As opposed to what you think you'd do.
If these 73 people wouldn't be a sad excuse of a human being, they would all at least, AT LEAST donate a significant amount to that Go Fund Me. That's the least they can do now. Really disgusting behaviour by them. I didn't know they even celebrate in base camp afterwards. Horrible.
Ego also plays a big part in this. People want to reach the summit so bad, they even are willing to step over someone dying. I understand safety first but a lot of people will probably brag about reaching the summit and saw someone dying on their way up. It’s sad 😢
There was only one way. Everyone with limited oxygen. And overcrowded. It would have been practical to let everyone pass before attempting a rescue. Otherwise , you have a whole mountain of people running out of oxygen and dying. You couldn't reach him and descend with so many people going the opposite direction. And a mountain of inexperienced climbers. There were heaps of variables that would have made it difficult for rescue. That was a recipe for mass death disaster. That many people should never have been allowed on the mountain at the same time. Its so sad that no one cared back at base. 😢
If anyone try to help Hassan. God bless you all . Please try to help his family with a little time to comfort them. And fanincial Help To help family. They lost their son. This is so cruel sir I hope you will be help . Sir you are an angel. I wish I could help. Sir you an a Nigel this family Needs. Help this is the shepherd
I understand if you can't take the person with you but to just keep on climbing feels very disturbing. I think too though that some people expected or thought others would help and specially if they where just paying clients they maybe expected professionals to help. He must have had a team, I really wonder what they where doing.
Hope Hassan can rest in peace. I think there should be a test or examination before giving permit to climb. I never climb any mountain though but i wonder if the reason for not rescuing because it's too dangerous..can it be applied in any situations during the climb? After the press conference, it really left the bitter taste in my mouth. I couldn't forget Hassan and his family 😢 💔
I would think theres more honor and respect to save or even try to save a life than climb a mountain . Especially looking like a lemming climbing to the top .
Try this reversal of the standard narrative - "Selfish climbers choose not to stop to perform an impossible rescue" replaced with "Selfless climber, knowing he/she CANNOT be rescued refuses to allow others to needlessly risk their own lives in attempting the impossible".
That is essentially what happened....check out the interview with Angela Benevides of Explorers Web. We discuss that it would have been impossible to save him. This video gives a voice to another perspective. Here is the vid with Angela: ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
These mountains bring in a HUGE amount of money for the governments and for the people working there. That would be like closing coal mines after an accident....the mountains won't be closed for any purpose. I truly appreciate that you took the time to watch! thank you
@@EverestMystery I understand, but aren't there serious qualifications to be met before a person is allowed to climb these mountains? I understand the hypnotic draw of these behemoths, but somewhere cooler and more rational heads must prevail. Personally I would be happy just to make it to base camp.
It seems like it, but they are powerless up there. Please take a few to watch a follow up of this video called K2's New Reality: ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
10:10 it makes me think, the experience of hearing about Jesus. And wonder how that one perfect life, death, and resurrection could be ignored as people make their own summit bids… 🤔
What were they supposed to do to help him? The sherpas went past him too, not just the Western people. I agree that mountaineering is a stupid activity, but that means you accepted its harsh reality if you choose to participate in it. If you were there to photograph, his death, then you were part of the reason he was on the mountain in the first place.
You are absolutely correct. In my follow up interview with Angela Benevides we talk about the likelihood that nothing really could have been done...keeping him from ever getting there was the main thing....
Very sad, troubling story, though it should be noted that inexperienced, guided tourists lack initiative and, in fact, are totally incapable of mounting a rescue at 8200 . Even with experienced mountaineers such rescues entail great risk for all at 8200 meters on K2. Commercializing of the big peaks is inevitable, unfortunate, and increasingly, a travesty and this is the consequence. Finally, if we are to be honest, Muhammed should not have been on the mountain and he bears the most responsivity for his demise.
Yes, absolutely correct, here is a story I did shortly after this one called About K2: Clients Won't Save You (And They're All Clients): ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
@@EverestMystery I really liked your nuanced and extremely compassionate presentation of the dilemma. I've done climbs often solo (and backed-off climbs) all round the world and a single climbing "expedition" to Cho Oyu in 1993 was enough to convince me that the Himalaya was too problematic in terms of costs, bureaucracy, over-crowding, pollution, ethics, etc. And we haven't even discussed objective dangers which have picked off the best climbers of going on several generations now ... that said, everyone has a right to make their own chose. I totally concur with you idea for responsible standard re cleanup, porter training, insurance, etc. but sadly I see little potential for that to emerge ,, keep up the great work!
You might enjoy the companion video to this story, about how most of the people on the mountain these days are clients. K2's Dark Secret: You're on Your Own Up There: ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
It looks like the kind of place where devoting energy to helping others could endanger your own life. I'm not sure I blame anyone for walking past another injured, dying person. Maybe people don't belong there in the first place...seems kinda dumb.
Many would agree, and I essentially do, as well. My follow-up story to this is here, called About K2: Clients Won't Save You (And They're All Clients): ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
I don’t buy this. I am a Clinical psychologist specializing in trauma victims, survivors of severe domestic violence. I take other clients as well including pediatrics. As you can imagine my schooling was very long and in depth. We study human behavior..developmental from the time a fetus is in utero all the way through adulthood. We study early on the ego the Id..foundations of psychology. We study how trauma causes brain damage as early as in utero and continues to damage brain formation in babies, toddlers and teens. I have a private practice in which I specialize in intensive trauma therapy mostly women and children, I also work outreach as a domestic violence advocate as well as volunteer individual and group therapy services at 3 shelters. I still do see patients in 2 nearby hospitals psychiatric units which is where I see patients who suffer from many mental illnesses or disorders that I diagnose, devise a treatment plan-meds, therapy schedule, biweekly review of the patients overall condition. I mention the ego prior for a reason. Of all my years of experience, education and patient observation, I learned like all psychologists that the one and only mental disorder that is untreatable this incurable-this is a scientific medical fact that we have known for decades and decades. Narcissistic personality disorder with sociopathy and or psychopathy cannot be explained with neuroscience or any advanced methods to gain data thus giving us a way to treat these people or identifying life factors, chemical imbalance ect. I read of this tragedy when it had just occurred. It struck me at first to identify the extreme narcissistic individuals but then I was not so shocked sadly. There were people who fit dx criteria for NPD with sociopathy. They are the ones who’s existence..their ego could only thrive by putting on a show of grandiosity, they had to display at any cost that they are the crème de la crème, to do this they bury other humans as puppets or pawns to be controlled and used unless the person or puppet no longer serves their agenda-the quest to appear above all else whilst constantly filling their fractured sense of self by using anyone or thing to falsely inflate a twisted ego. They do not feel empathy or remorse. They think only of their wants, needs and create a false reality by lying compulsively..even denying entire occurrences regardless of truth/reality/proof and witnesses. What happened that morning on K2 goes against the natural human way. It is a show of the twisted and dark..inhumane..evil dynamic of a group made up largely of people with varying degrees of narcissistic personality disorder with sociopathic tendencies. There was more than likely the person who had the most severe narcissistic PD, this person would puppet and influence the other narcissists, narcissists can are the ultimate conmen, they can persuade anyone into anything, make people believe things that are false, control others actions by countless means of gaining control. I cannot fathom a human being lying gravely injured, crying, suffering and for people to step over the poor soul, like a discarded thing so they can finish the climb? The thought that agencies proclaim- the government, companies ect ect need to define basically what moral compass applies in this situation..that is sickening to me. There should be no question that if someone is injured all climbing stops, all manpower is dedicated to saving the life of their fellow human. The one crew stayed back, watched in horror at what those people did. They showed love, empathy, care and respect, they went to Pakistan to see the suffering family, connected with them as well as showed selfless compassion in providing much needed monetary funds to the family. this is a display of all that is good, right, just, moral and loving in most of us, in the world despite the darkness there is much light. This is my professional opinion and what ai feel in my soul to be so. We all must meet our maker at some point, meaning those who choose a life full of deep dark wrongs and zero conscience cannot run forever although it is typical for those with sociopathic/psychopathic NPD to believe they will never be held accountable, they denounce God because their houses of cards will fall, their false sense of self will implode and crumble if they embraced God pure goodness prevailing over evil, they would have to change or be faced with the atrocities they commit regularly and have done so often since childhood. Please Psychiatrists or psychologists who have in depth knowledge and experience in NPD I ask you to share your professional and personal thoughts, beliefs and knowledge regarding this case. May God Bless Muhammad and his family abundantly for all eternity. 🙏🏼
As a psychologist, you are correct about NPD. I'm a professional in a similar field. And even so, wouldnt have believed how extreme it can get. I've since, also been under personal attack for over 20 years by a whole gang of narcissists. Including 2 exs. And it is truly unbelievable what they can convince others to believe without, as you say, proof, evidence, eyewitnesses etc. Finally my lawyer showed me a letter which was so convincing, I almost believed it about myself. Except I was there at the time! They also use each other to be "so-called" independent witnesses for verification. And also use authorities of every kind, in their made-up stories. You'd think Secret Services would have the intelligence to recognise a conspiracy...but sadly... No! Fortunately Police as well as Child Services are more experienced, and want actual proof. (Which doesnt exist) My real crime was to just be born, to my absolutely insanely jealous 3 year older brother. Who was dropped by my mother, to just love me!! I'm not sure that it was actually worth being born, to endure this amount of shit! What was truly funny was when they tried it on with political friends! My friends just said "yeah, yeah...bullshit, bullshit!" It turned out that even these extreme techniques were rather passe, politically, to political opponents. And my parlimentary friends (both State and Federal) had checked me out deeply, already, over many years. I didnt know that. And I was told I was a 'cleanskin', whatever that means. BTW I wouldnt label ALL those K2 climbers that way. Some would just be scared, struggling themselves, not wanting to know, or oblivious too, I suspect. Regards.
This is so sad…but it kinda rings a bell for me, like racism…because I’ve heard of other mountain and diving accidents and always always if the victim is caucasian people so try to help them and give them comfort or stay with them until they are rescued or die and if they die they try to recover the body (if they can) but this is way to harsh and cruel
There are people of all races who remain on mountains. I think that given the location of the gentleman this was an equal opportunity situation. A caucasian gentleman passed away under the Hillary Step in 2019 and and he is still right there in plain site. Here is a short about it, which I hope to turn into a long form video sometime soon: ua-cam.com/users/shortsNeiS9qHN2xU Thank you for being here and sharing your thoughts!
lol couldnt do anymore, we did everything we could.. yeh in this world scaling everest costs you 100 grand.. 100 grand to scale the mountain or 100grand to stop half way to rescue someone.. most of the people know what it takes to make that sort of money and understand they did not go there as part of a rescue team.. if you introduce massive rescue teams, the whole thing about the mountain just wont feel so good anymore, and if theres less risk there is less reward.. we need to stop blaming others when clearly this person put themselves in this position to begin with,.. everyone scales the mountain understanding they do so at their own risk, so there is no use trying to debate something when it was already agreed before hand
All those people - they couldn't come together to make sure Hassan was rescued? Horrible. I wouldn't be able to live with myself, if I walked over a stranded, dangling person. How much is a life worth; Not as much as a paid trip to the summit, it appears.
Here's another look at the many shades of gray in this tragic story of Muhammed Hassan, with Angela Benevides of Explorers Web, called Clients Won't Save You: Won't Save You: ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
i come from a family of mountaineers, I was raised in a spirit of solidarity on the mountains. My father and grandfather would be shocked to see this. Rest in peace Muhammed.
Thank you for watching, I have a couple new videos on the same subject, including an interview with Kristin Harila about her summit push on K2. Cheers and thanks!
He was killed by the company that hired him, not by the people who couldn't or didn't help him. Sent up there with no oxygen, no gear, and probably not a lot of experience.
Exactly. But regardless of fault, once he became immobile, it was over. What should people do? How would you get him down with all the people en route already? Yes, you have to get him down to save him, but you literally can't without killing even more people.
These peak baggers aren't the kind of people I'd want to spend a lot of time with. Steindl on the other hand is a man of genuine integrity and worthy of deep respect.
There's actually a name for this: Diffusion of Responsibility. When there are many people around at the time of a crisis, everyone assumes someone else will deal with it. You're far more likely to get help if there are only a few people nearby.
They should change it to an Explosion of Responsibility for all, everyone needed get on it, keep him warm, etc. People stepping over him is disturbing, and people can ask if he is ok with their voices, and to ease him for God's sake ... a life or the summit, I'll pick a life even if he passes end of. Disgusting that people can't understand a life means all, hiking means nothing in the moment you see a person hurt. The people who said nothing to climb should be ashamed, and I feel God was there crying for the man.
Diffusion. That seems to describe what happened on K2. It's terrible. He was a human being. And, he didn't deserve to die that way.
one of those alleged phenomena that has been impossible to replicate in further studies.
@@ninawernick6501 What phenomena? Diffusion of Responsibility is a well-known concept in sociology.
I have to disagree this was a ledge they were walking on with not much space.
You don't have much space for more then 3 people to help and you would have needed 6 or more
If you cannot stand on your feet at the bottleneck of K2, it’s all over for you. This is the sad reality of high altitude mountaineering. Everest at that height? Maybe a rescue can be made. On K2, it would take weeks or months of preparation, a large dedicated team, and it still might not be possible. Most people just have no idea what it’s like up there. He was given supplemental o2 and still did not respond. You can either go up, or go down and mourn, those are your options. Now the woman that was partying at base camp after the summit, that’s a problem, true mountaineers don’t behave this way.
There is a lot more than you could do for that man. Trying to wake him up to get his last will, a last message to his relatives, or just stay there with him, give up on you stupid summit and join his suffering as he leaves this world.
The question here is the consumer attitude towards porters, for them porters are consumables. Porter died not because of a fatal accident, but because he was not prepared for such an ascent, he did not have the appropriate equipment, he did not even have a down suit. The team knew about this and they all took it exactly because they probably didn’t have enough people. They say that they gave money to buy equipment, they say that they told him not to go higher, but this is all from their words, since the dead will not answer them. I don’t believe that someone gave him money, and rather, on the contrary, they told him that if he didn’t go higher, he wouldn’t receive the money, but I don’t believe that the team made 14 ascents and that when they tell him not to go up, the porter would disobey and go. ... The blame for his death lies entirely with the team, which admitted an unprepared porter and did not provide him with equipment. And then, instead of admitting their guilt, they made excuses until the last day, they didn’t even help the porter’s family. As a result, other climbers helped the porter’s family; he left behind a wife and children. And as for rescue, in 1996 Anatoly Boukreev saved 3 people on Everest, but K2 is not Everest, but then in a storm with zero visibility everyone refused and climbers and Sherpas not went to save people, and sat in tents, that is, then everyone thought that in such weather it is impossible to save people, but Bukreev did the impossible. In general, stories in the mountains say that nothing is impossible for a person... But for Kharila and the company that organized her ascent, the question is not about salvation, but about their vision after, they are not worthy to call themselves climbers after this. If they had admitted their guilt in allowing and equipping this porter, helped the porter’s family, and apologized, then I would have no questions for them.
@@user-hu9mv2jt9mI suspect youre right about Hassan only being paid if he went higher.
You should also note that Anatoly Boukreev only actually saved members of his own MM team, not any from Rob Halls team.
@@alexandros8361Also the people Anatoli saved were fairly close to camp 4. Bottleneck on K2 is a completely different story…
@@ferreira8649 Yes I dont think anyone could be rescued on that ice cliff, underneath that huge serac, I believe, and with that line of people locked in to a single file up there. But there's also so many untold stories, so many secrets that still remain, up on those places.
God bless Willi Steindl, a climber with a conscience and compassion 🙏
Human respect is worth 100% more
why didnt he helped?
@@jay-ur1mj Stopped watching after 30 sec?
So much compassion and conscience that he literally did nothing.... Actually, he overslept so he is salty he didn't make the peek...
Compassion is great and necessary, but it's not sufficient. You should not endanger more people to attempt an obviously hopeless rescue. Everybody here is writing at basically Sea level and in warm rooms. At 8200 m and freezing temperatures, this is all a whole different ball game. What needs to end it's the predatory industry that has grown around summiting the 8k's
Geez. Hard to stomach. I don't know what to think. Thanks again, Thom.✌
Thank you for watching. I have another video coming out about this soon....peeling back the layers.
Very common in emergency circumstances. Unless someone takes charge, you have a crowd of people doing nothing- in this case almost 80 people. The majority of blame probably falls on the guides and team leaders- the professionals- for failing to lead. I'd like to think that comes down to poor SAR/first aid training, but it makes one wonder what would happen if one of their own clients got into trouble...As a client, you should consider how much effort would be put into your survival by others on the mountain.
Thank you for putting these interviews together. There is so much speculation and assumption that happens in these situations. It's important to get the first hand accounts. I feel so terrible for Hassan and his family and am glad to see that the gofundme is being successful.
I appreciate that you took the time to comment, thank you. Yes, the success of the gofundme is over and above what anyone might have expected. Nothing will replace the father, however, they will at least grow up knowing that people do care enough to help. That goes a long way.
Why?
I think you hit the nail on the head here in your intro: the commercialization of these 8k meter peaks leads to inexperienced climbers paying to get to the top. They can barely help themselves let alone someone else. If there were a climbing experience requirement of some kind to climb these mountains- be it tested skill or previous climbs- perhaps less of these tragedies would occur. You'd have fewer overall people climbing, and those who were would be experienced enough to know their limits, know how to gauge weather, and be comfortable enough to render aid to other climbers.
Money and tourism ruins everything.
Thanks for your thoughts, I really appreciate that you took the time to watch.
The best of the best lost their lives on K2.
@@Mila_Brearey Or the dumbest of the dumb.
And turn back when conditions warrant
As you say, it is difficult to determine whether a rescue is even possible at this altitude and in this environment... I'd hope that If I found myself in this situation I would choose to try and help this individual instead of summiting, to turn back and pursue professional aid rather than pushing on.
Really glad you took the time to watch and to share your thoughts. Thank you!
It’s not only about giving up the summit to try and help. If you choose to help, you’re risking your own life. You’d have gone back to get help? You’d unclip yourself from the rope to go over 70 people in that narrow space and go and get help? Things are not that simple up there.
@@ferreira8649exactly…it’s not like one person could carry or drag him down.
I admire the young man who took it upon himself to visit this man's family. A true hero. Made the choice to go back & still after the tragedy he went to visit his family. Well done sir, truly heartwarming to see. 🙏🏼🫶🏻🙏🏼🌻
He is a good man. So glad that you took the time to watch the video. Thank you!
The whole mountaineering industry kind of disgusts me....Rich people ticking off their bucket list on the back of poor workers on top of the environmental destruction caused by these expeditions
Yes, plus the filth and trash left all over mountains too. No one is that impressed anymore with getting to the top because its just so common now and not special either.
@@b.m.t.h.3961 exactly! it's become just a way to pump up their instagram!
It seems like a lot of ego and narcissism.
Agreed 💯
I've been trying to figure out if there really was a way to help Hassan.
I don't know if people realize how high up on K2 the bottleneck is ... and that it is the most dangerous part of the mountain due to being in the death zone with sn apartnent-size serac hanging above the climbers, ready to kill them all at any moment. Climbers know to get out of there asap.
It was reported that two sherpas & a climber pulled him up on the ledge & gave him oxygen in the hopes that he would stand up. Without the ability to stand & take direction, he would not be able to be short-roped down. Hassan did not bring back-up oxygen. The standing around & waiting, depleted everyone's oxygen.
The sherpas probably realized that they would need 4-6 very experienced climbers to even attempt this rescue,while risking their own lives, because Hassan couldn't even hold his own body up.
K2 is steep without any areas for rest, so I can't see how they could have gotten him down without a bit of his his help & without risking their lives as well.
Also, everyone is low on oxygen that close to the summit - esp when wasting oxygen while waiting - which is why some turn back.
Btw ... Sherpas are paid by the climbers - most of whom are not rich, but had saved half of their lives for this. The more summits a sherpa has on his CV, the more $$$ he can charge in the future ($15-$40,000) in a country where the average income is around $300/year.
Everyone has a lot at stake. Most wouldn't know how to plan or execute a rescue on such a technically, avalanche-prone "killer" mountain anyways ... and the experienced mounrsineers & sherpas know how to recognize when a person has succumbed to cerebral/pulmonary edema.
Poor Hassan & his family. He was new at this and had no idea of what he would be facing. He was improperly dressed for such cold and without back-up oxygen. He just needed some guidance & rules of surviving in the death zone. It's incredibly sad that no one bothered to take him under their wing & tesch him.
I'm basing my opinion on what i have read, as well as Hassan's complete collspse.
(Sorry that this is so long).
Thank you for your insight and thoughts about the situation on K2 and beyond. I'm happy that you took the time to watch and especially to have made such a thoughtful comment. I'll bring more on this story very soon.
Turning around and descend was an option. If they bring back bodies, surely a live person was worth the effort?
@@shiningstar2903 they don't bring bodies back most of the time.
The 15-40 000 dollars one climber pays goes to a whole team of sherpas and porters. All of them have high costs involved in training, gear that is way out of their budgets, travelling to and from, surviving at the base camp(tents, food, medical and other supplies) etc. And the job has a 25% death rate which definitely comes with a premium compared to the average yearly salary of the country (specially if you compare it in a country where the majority falls below the poverty line.. the real poverty line.. like no food no shelter level.. not the ones in west where poor people still own concrete homes and have subsidies and support from governments)
@myadorablefosters there are countless video documentaries where bodies are brought down.
Thank you Thom, This video definitely had me tearing up. Im totally amazed at the people who attempt any mountain and put their goal a head of helping others. I always thought that mountain climbing was about everyone coming home alive! I couldn't live with myself if I stepped over someone needing help and didn't put their wellbeing above summiting, maybe its being a nurse for thirty years and helping others that makes me think this way but I truly believe I couldn't live with myself if I summited at the expense of someone else's death without.....trying to do the right thing. Im left speechless and truly disappointed at the people who attempt to summit big mountains with no humanity.
He makes a good point: they wouldn’t have been able to help probably, and if they left their group they would die too. Still, I agree with you anyway
The last comment made here,..makes sense. Make a portion of the "cost of the climb", an insurance fund for the guides and sherpas. It seems fair, and logical. This makes me sad, that people are treated so.
I agree. Thank you for watching!
This man is a blessing. It’s so sad what happened to Mohammed. I hope his family will be OK.
The moral decision to climb over an injured climber is not made in the moment. One decides, long before ever reaching the mountain, that no help will be proffered regardless of dire need. Climbing is nothing if not the most brutal and narcissistic hobby I have ever seen. Not helping is not the anomaly, it is the norm.
Agreed yet it may be their norm but it is not the norm of human beings. I have enough info to confidently say I would diagnose the climbers with Narcissistic Personality Disorder with sociopathy and or psychopathy. They are not my patients therefore it is my professional and personal view that I believe is to be spot on accurate. One’s moral compass does not differ from place to place or situation to situation or person to person. One who justifies twisted dark actions by inferring that the moral compass is different on a mountain than a river or a city than the country side, and so on..any being who has the audacity to speak on morals like this have no morals, they do not believe in them.
@@indigoastrealaluna2808You are not certified to classify anyone as anything. And that's the rules. He knew what the rules were before he made the trek. When you're in the bottleneck, stopping for any amount of time is crazy dangerous in many ways. Going back is borderline impossible, so many of those people didn't have a choice but to continue, based on how many people were lined up there. The truth is that if you were in that position you wouldn't and couldn't do anything differently.
The rules are there for a reason btw. Go look up what happened to the last guys who tried saving someone in the bottleneck. Spoiler alert: they died. This is why you're told in advance that if this happens to you in the death zone, you're not getting rescued.
Heart breaking. Climbing has become a 'designer' activity for the beautiful people. Good job by Will. We need more like him.
Just like the David Sharp episode on Everest except I feel like a rescue on K2 would be vastly more difficult!
100%....a rescue up there would likely have led to more death. Here's a follow up of this video called K2's New Reality:
ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
I'm not a climber so maybe I have no right to judge anyone for the decisions they made that awful day. However, I can't help but be reminded of the words of Dr. Houston when speaking of Art Gilke. He didn't believe he would survive, but they had to give him every chance. They picked him up and the whole team started down the mountain, and continued down even after the avalanche swept Art away. Tell me, is it really so hard that a few men couldn't drag him down to a tent, give what 1st aid they could and either wait for a rescue team or care for him until he died? I'm ignorant here, but I feel so hurt for this man knowing he was literally reaching out, begging for help.
Not ignorant at all, enlightened i would say and as a climber of 19 years I would rather climb with you and your attitude than any of these modern die hards. Gone are the days of adventure. Nowadays its get someone else with far less money, resource and choice than you to do the hard work and you just hike up their fixed ropes without regard for anything other than your summit push. Selfish beyond belief and I have no respect left for any of these so called climbers. No right to be there any of them. About time the mountaineering industry took a long hard look at itself. Shame on you all and your vacuous dreams.
True. I have this sort of discussion with many people obsessed with results. The journey is as important, sometimes more important as along the way you learn more about yourself.
Have also watched a lot of videos where the trams talk about equipment etc before the push, it may be edited, but i havent seen one where they discuss helping others or what to do in that situation. For many of the climbers the first time they learn about crampons or oxygen masks and tanks is just prior to having to use them. It still amazes me that with all the money spent, climber still take russian roulette on the used masks they are provided with.
So true. There were 80 people there. They could have done something. Shared all their oxgyen instead of that one camera man being the only one to share. They were clearly only caring about getting to the top. Because they had already accomplished an incredible goal. They could have all stopped and helped and summitted the following day.
@@Heavyisthecrown I agree. Even if they had failed to summit, wouldn't it have been more wonderful to brag that you actually save a life? I think so!
You are comparing apples to oranges. You are comparing team of highly skilled climbers that made an attempt to save on of their own with people that cannot help themselves and expect the latter to perform high attitude rescue attempt that is doomed to fail.
I doubt if one of the clients of many expeditions would be in same situation at bottleneck, any rescue attempt would be even tried.
I'm curious as to what you would do in this situation, Thom. Was there ever a 'gentleman's agreement' when you were on Everest to 'let nature take it's course' if someone encountered difficulties? Is it even feasible to help someone that high?
@eleventhmonkeygaming9476 🥺😣🙌 Beautiful response... Gonna have me tear up over here man 🤝
@eleventhmonkeygaming9476 do you step over people in other situations, the hurt or the hurting. You can’t save everyone, but just because we aren’t on Everest, or K2, doesn’t mean we can’t donate a tin of beans to charity, say good morning to a homeless person.
This is, whether we like it or not, our culture. And not all homeless people have made bad choices. Sometimes circumstances really do hit.
Everyone, with any risky choice demands respect, because they are human.
Did you not hear him say you bring him down or at least try?
@eleventhmonkeygaming9476You wouldn't try to get him down because if you'd climbed up it would be absolutely clear to you that you couldn't get him down.
@@philippal8666You replied to the wrong person.
So crazy… even facing certain death in wars 100’s of years ago. Their guts hanging out, someone would stay and help the fallen. So sad. Humans are so awful now 😢 bet if that was one of the rich people paying instead of the help they would have cared.
Thank you, and thanks for watching
No, they wouldn't have. And if you were in this position (somehow) 100 years ago, they definitely wouldn't have cared at all. They were less empathetic back then.
This is so informative! Great job, fantastic reporting!🌻🌼🐝 Keep it up 🙌
Thank you very much for watching, I hope you enjoyed it and that you see there's more on the K2 story here....
its so tragic, the summit is never worth a human life, no matter how much money youve spent, no matter how much work youve put in to reach this point, if you need to turn around to even just maybe save someones life you do. i hope hassan can rest in peace
You say no one stopped and everyone kept stepping over him but then say the couple stayed with him probably 2 hours and their camera man shared oxygen then even show footage of people comforting him. I’d never make this excursion so I’m not sure of protocol but what were all of those people supposed to do? Rest in peace to this man 😞
Totally agree....the two additional videos which are linked in the notes of this one will give more depth to the story as well as the gray areas of what happened. It's not all black and white....saving this man may well night have been impossible. Thanks for watching, truly appreciate it
Bottleneck rescue is extremely dangerous
Absolutely, it couldn't have been a more difficult locarion
Borderline impossible depending on the size of the person and condition
The human species is a self-serving and selfish species. I could find no glory or satisfaction on the summit if I had to step over and ignore an injured fellow climber to get there.
There’s nothing climbers can do on the narrow paths when others fall or run out of oxygen. It’s important that novice climbers not attempt to climb. Those people jeopardize others & could cause the death of many.
How about HUMANS stop destroying everyplace on earth with their shit and trash stay the f home!!!!! Leave nature alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He wasn’t a novice climber, he was an exploited young man in a desperate situation. They stood by and watched him climb without as much as a down jacket then stepped over his body when he passed. The only ones putting people in danger are the westerners who created this industry for their own ego. They take advantage of destitute people who they treat as completely expendable just to be the “first white lady with dreads from Norway to climb mt Everest helicopter style.” Like bfr
I've written a number of times in the comments section of videos similar to this that..
if wealthy people pay a lot to kill themselves on mountains...fair enough. That's what they want to do.
But what is just unacceptable is the way they usually kill porters and people labelled "guides"..generally people from poor countries who are paid not much, treated badly, and viewed as expendable.
When I have a look at the reactions to my comments. I NEVER see people saying "yes that is bad". Not a bit of it. I gets reams of people saying "they get paid more than they would if they stayed at home" "it's a lot of money for people like them" (I kid you not. "people like them")or the disgusting "they knew the risks".
So as far as I can tell, the people who watch videos about mountain climbing are the eye poppingly selfish, and inhumane.
Please check out some of the polls I've posted on this channel, and the answers and comments will be of interest to you, I'm sure. Thank you for your thoughts....truly appreciated. And thank you for watching!
How do you get people to give up a prize they spent so much money to get? How about making another prize that is more coveted? Something not everyone can have. A rescue metal of honor. For those who gave up the summit to help rescue another. A patch to sew on and even a cash reward with a ceremony. Golfers get the green jacket, there are bravery metals, etc. Publish it in papers and magazines etc. Just a thought.
Rendering aid with oxygen, clothing etc. is possible and moral. Unfortunately, the narrative is usually based on a false choice - if some people had stopped they could have saved Hassans life. That is delusional.
We also need to look at things from another side. He is totally unprepared obviously climbed with inappropriate dressing and gear most likley never been exposed to this harsh and dangerous climbing environment.
An almost 90 degree super iced and dangerous wall where he falls. I cant imagine how any montaineer can attempt to take him down without himself most likely losing his life. Who on this wall wants to stay stationary there waiting for potential avalanches to kill them. Who willingly is going to give up his own needed oxygen ? Its all good to blame and humiliate and shame these other people and shred them to pieces for not being heroes who don't wish to run into the fire to save someone elses lifes and get killed along the way. My motto: unless it is safe for yourself you don't need to be anyonelses hero. And NOBODY on that wall was remotley 10% safe. Anyone going on this dangerous climbing expedition is responsible for what happens to them. Your doing this willingly and you need to deal with the consequences. And i find it really insulting using " westerners " its like making statements about a type of people.
Discriminating
Yes we discussed this in the video. Nothing is gained by excoriating people, especially when we have no clue what it would be like up there. I have a video coming out today that you will enjoy. Please keep an eye out or hit notifications. Thanks for watching.
It really leaves a bad taste in my mouth after seeing what happened to Hassan. I realize it must be very expensive to go on climbing expeditions such as that. However, no amount of money is worth more than someone's life. I would've stopped and tried to get him down. I'll pray for his family.
Even if he. couldn't be saved, why did no one stay with him so he wouldn't have been alone during his last moments? That's what I can't understand.
@@ilanamillion8942 I agree. If I was there and wasn't able to get him down off the mountain I would've stayed there so he didn't have to die alone.
There was nothing anyone could do. That's dangerous territory. All their lives are at risk at that point. There was no way to get him down. I don't know about how moral they are, that's the thing. It's really so sad.
It's the bottleneck. He shouldn't have been on the mountain, but it was his choice. Unfortunately he couldn't be saved before he fell. If you hear what actually happened and where it was, there's no choice but to step over up or down, but going down they'd have to step over up to 100 pll and is ridiculously dangerous anywhere, forget the bottleneck. Only one person could stay with him and one person did. He didn't even have down clothing amd was likely experiencing high altitude sickness and hypothermia.
There was no rescue available. In the death zone they have to keep moving or they will die.
@@dana102083most westerners shouldn’t be on those mountains either but they have the money to endanger the lives of the poor and desperate. What’s your excuse for the party they had afterwards? Cause idc how much you like mountains and the outdoors, there’s something fundamentally wrong with you and your humanity if you can have a party hours after stepping over a dying man. That should be a life changing, traumatizing event….. for anyone with an ounce of humanity/empathy.
I don't agree with blaming the other climbers. The mountaineering industry has become a complete farce, but the height is still as deadly as ever. They tried to rescue him as much as possible, but there is virtually no way to get people down from there. How exactly do you want to get him down? Nobody can do that at K2. Nobody attempted a rescue because it was hopeless.
Thank you.... You might enjoy my interview with Kristin Harila about this.
The sad thing is women in this part of the world aren’t allowed to get an education and work so they are solely dependent on the husband or son. It’s truly a sad situation.
Yes, absolute truth.... Thank you for watching!
Thats why I have more respect for military soldiers. They will never leave their comrade in danger behind. One is to die for his country, the other is to die for K2. Sad.
I have another video coming out this week about the story. Thank you for watching!
The way that this person's death was handled (among other things) has tarnished my opinon of the people that paid to climb the mountain. And, especially, those people that were paid to lead them to the summit.
Totally understand. I've done two additional videos on this topic, here's one that gives some more insight into human behavior: ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
Thank you for watching!
I think under normal circumstances everyone would try to help, but there was a long line of people, they were already exhausted themselves and most likely had 0 knowledge abt rescue operations in the mountains, people were left behind in the past, he shouldn’t have been a porter there in the first place. This guy just talks but I wonder what he would have done in the situation, it’s easy to pretend to be so nice but it’s not really helpful
Thanks so much for the interview. The gentleman you interviewed was right. Everybody has come up with some excuse. You know that there is no guarantee that a person will survive even if brought down, but somebody had to have seen that he did not have the necessary gear. I fear that people have lost their Humanity!
Thanks for sharing informative docs, but its fact that he was not inexperience it was just an accident, and he can be rescued by the mountaineers on K2, but the humanity died there.
Hey again! I'd love to hear your take on Arlene Blum's expedition to Annapurna. Great work as always. You really keep the dignity of these folks. Being a climber yourself i really appreciate your educated take on these inspirational stories
That is a great story idea....thank you. I'm glad you found the channel and hope to keep bringing cool stories like this!
I'm not sure if this sounds silly but, with little to no experience, the cost to climb that mountain should cover the cost to climb with a rescue team, a professional rescue team for each individual.
Totally agree. I did a video this year that discussed the idea of mandating that there are rescue teams in place, especially with the advent of commercial 'tourism' climbing. The video is called 'About K2' and we talk about a tragedy there in 2023 and circle around this idea of rescuing: ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
Thank you for watching, glad that you found it and visited the channel!
As an avid rock climber, I understand risk, liability, and that people engage in this type of activity knowing of the dangers.
But still.. I like to think I wouldn’t be able to step over a dying climber in order to reach my goal.
I feel numbers have something to do with it. Were it 7 people instead of 70, I wonder if they would have acted so coldly. I hope not.
Another proof that group mentality and gregarious instincts can reveal the darkest in humans.
This is difficult for me to write. ... Back in the 1960s I wanted to become a climber, actually a mountaineer. There is a difference.
Life got in the way, we had kids and responsibilities prevented following my dream. I always felt I had missed the "brass ring." NO LONGER!! I am more than happy to not be associated with the mountaineering community as it has currently evolved.
It seems in that community there are classes of people, perhaps even a "caste system." There are those who are "served," and there are those who "serve." Those who are served could give a rat's patootee about those who serve, "the little people."
In this case Hassan was simply another obstacle in a grand adventure. His name will not even show on the summit certificate the summiteers will hang on their wall.
He will soon be forgotten, but the summiteers will be toasted as heroes for years to come!?!?!?!?!?!
Thank you for your heartfelt words and insight. I really appreciate that you took the time to write
These are people who have money more than I will ever dream of.
But I don’t think the behaviour was callous. I think we are told all the time, don’t get involved, let the experts, let the professionals. People do step forward on planes, when asked to.
I was homeless, very few people talked to me. But people are scared. I was young and female. I wasn’t begging but sometimes got given food. It’s life. People assume things. They assume that homeless couldn’t happen to them, couldn’t be real. Maybe I had a house (I didn’t). I got thrown out of stations where I was sheltering. Not platforms, the foyer.
I was an eyesore that might pickpocket, steal or beg. I did none of these, I took no drugs, I just fell through a loophole in society. And every single person I met assumed the worst. I did nothing wrong other than getting ill. This isn’t a K2 problem. Like me Mohammed got ill at work. Unlike me his work had much higher risks. Do you know how many people stepped over me? Do you know how long it took me to have someone listen and try and help. It was a policewoman. It wasn’t her job. I was trespassing in the porch of a public building. My eyes shutting because I couldn’t sleep at night.
Mohammed was working in an area he had not enough equipment or experience in.
I know that when I get ill at work recently that although my workplace will do the bare minimum, my government will pay my basic living costs until I crawl back to work.
If the Pakistani government has people working on K2, and is charging for this, then included in that fee should be worker rescue. The people paying so much money can pay for basic employee care. And if it’s not safe to bring someone injured down, then yes to sit with them.
Someone needs to have some basic rules for emergencies in place. Teams do look after each other. But knowing who is on what team is crazy.
If people pay to go, they can pay for rules.
The rules have always been ‘no rescue from the death zone’ as so many rescuers have died. Does that need reevaluating with no technology.
One extra thing in the mix. That everyone here has only so much oxygen. Death happens fast up there. Everyone is walking around with hypoxia. You physiologically cannot think well. It’s like being drunk.
I don’t think it’s Western v poorer countries although there is so much poverty where do you start.
Having worked my adult life with the disadvantaged after my experience, I want to ask everyone how many people and situations that they have walked past this week. People like I used to be, that they have literally stepped over.
My views on the world shifted dramatically when city dwellers stepped over me on their way home. When I literally hadn’t eaten or really slept for a week.
Yes climbing over a dying person is horrific. But who are we, who step over people daily to judge.
I wanted water and sanitary towels not sandwiches. When I spent too long in the bathroom mopping up my period with tissue, security were called because it was assumed I was taking drugs. Obviously, because a homeless young woman must take drugs, not have a period.
They kicked the door in and ‘removed’ me.
I give money to charities abroad as well as here, because no one deserves that.
It’s a cultural phenomenon where ‘they’ are not human somehow.
I don’t know. I agree we need to support the widow.
But we all need to take a look at ourselves and our everyday thoughts. Could we acknowledge someone, signpost someone, accept that drug addicts still need clothes, water, sanitary products, and respect.
Not walk over someone who has no access to a toilet.
this is just heartbreaking. This poor man, treated like trash, and his desperate family... thank you Willie for what you did for them. I cannot help but wonder if the climbers stepping over him and choosing their ambition rather than helping a fellow human being, considered him of less worth because he was not one of them, a poor man, a worker, and a worker who was not white and so beneath their notice.
They just valued their own lives and families above his. Is it a great, happy thing to witness? No. Is it completely justifiable? Yes, yes it is. You're told before you come anywhere near K2 that you WILL be left to die if you find yourself in a position like this. That's the rules and the rules are there for a good reason. Rescuing people from the bottleneck has already resulted in multiple fatalities and to my knowledge, noone has ever been rescued while in that bad of a state.
I have a couple other stories from this event, one being an interview with Kristin Harila, and another an interview with Explorers Web journalist Angela Benevides. Thanks for your support!
@@filipferencak2717 do you think this was also extended to the workers? Really? The man was inadequately clothed.. why didn’t the people who hired him made sure he had proper clothing? It reeks of indifference and carelessness on the part of those in charge…
@@daniadejonghe4980 Yes, it was extended to the workers. Especially so, since they are on average far more knowledgeable than the tourists. He knew the risks, I can guarantee you that. I personally feel really bad for him, as he was doing this to support his family. That being said, blaming these people is ridiculous. The real villains are the ones you mentioned, the companies.
@@filipferencak2717 why then was he dressed the way he was?
This is frightening. Of all the mountain stories where people continue climbing when someone dies, I am not surprised, but to step over someone asking for help on the way UP? Shocking. Gives new meaning to the phrase “surrounded by people but alone”.
Do you think it was because he was “just” a porter?
It was because it was in the bottleneck, which is literally one of the worst places on Earth to attempt a rescue. You could be Elon Musk and you would still be left for dead if you were in that state.
Looks like it would be impossible to move him. Didn’t a bunch of people die trying this same thing a few years back?
Finally someone who understands
@@filipferencak2717 half the point of doing it is the fact that nobody can save you, it’s all on you
Appalling, Despicable and may all 70 be haunted by the utter lack of any Humanity. Shame!!!!
This is the mountains version of the BYSTANDER EFFECT... ( bystander apathy ) for those who have never heard of this it refers to a phenomenon in which the greater the number of people there are present, the less likely people are to help a person in distress.
Or to stand around filming it on their smart phones while doing nothing to render aid or call the police.
There was nothing any of them could do.
People need to understand there's nothing one can do for someone so high up on the mountain the more experienced climbers are partially to blame. Why would you take an inexperienced climber so high up it's pure madness
Hmm yeah thas crazy how they didnt just carry him down the mountain. It would have been so easy and totally possible. Now, lets figure out why the survivors of the titanic didnt just swim down and rescue the ones still trapped in the boat? Or why Hawaiians didnt just walk through the wildfires and carry out the ones that were burning? Can anyone figure out why? Anyone? 😂
That this video discussed the very idea that a rescue was darn near impossible was obviously lost on you....but the troll made an appearance nonetheless.
This reminds me David Sharp controversy.
Is Wilhelm okay? He hasn’t posted anything on socials since the fall?
Thank you for asking, hopefully he sees this and knows that he is not alone. (I'll send him a message.)
thats not a boyscout camp, thats extreme high altitude climbing. Everyone who has made decision to climp up there has commited to the hard reallity that above 6500-8000 meters there is no help coming and youre on your own. though luck. Now all those knights in shining armor preaching moral high grounds should ask themeselves what they could have done realistically? Not much.
Agreed. Everyone in comments is acting like it was a simple task that was left undone.
Anyone attempting to rescue him puts their own life at risk. And not knowing all the facts 20/20 hindsight is easy.
I'm not a climber and I'm not sure why the algorithm brought me this video.
But what I now know have changed my opinion on these selfish "adventures" and will not be impressed when I hear someone having climbed one of the "big ones again". There's nothing great about having poor people practically building a ladder and dragging your ass up a mountain, before stepping over their dying bodies in order to take a selfie. - Especially when many other people did the same thing at same time you did.
I personally am very happy that the algorithm brought you here, and that you saw a video that inspired you to comment. Thank you! I've since done two other videos on the topic...sharing somewhat different viewpoints of the story. I really hope you'll stick around and check out some of the other offerings on the page.
Here is one of the videos I did to follow-up the one you watched:
ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
Cheers and thanks again!
I now see K2 and Everest as the most expensive graveyard above the clouds. Overall those stories hit quite hard, even though I want to say "They signed for this" and dismiss it. I can´t. It´s not that easy, I helped several times people when they blacked out or had epilepsy. I assure you, they are afterward dead weight, hard to manipulate even on flat surface. Personally I CAN´T imagine this happen on the terrain like mountain. We might critize them from our warm place - but hell, even if they WOULD (and should) call help, rescuers have to climb up and go through all those masses of tourist there and back (passing incoming tourists). It´s insanity and I would never go there, knowing this would traumatize me and spoil whole climb. Not to mention all this tourism destroys both mountains with waste and sadly unlucky climbers.
This is prime example how uncivilised we are in mutliple layers!
I don't understand how these mountaineer companies don't have policies and procedures in place for this kind of thing?? In any other environment a medical emergency would be taken more seriously. A lack of action would normally result in negligence lawsuit. 🤷♀️
There are two videos that followed this interview that will shed much more light on the story, revealing the gray areas. Here is Kristin Harila's first person account of that day: ua-cam.com/video/gyIuZBBBAFk/v-deo.html
And here is a closer look at the big picture: ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
Thanks for watching! Much appreciated
It was takem seriously but they had no other option that wouldn't had them killed.
Most of the highest high altitude rescues had been successful at mount everest on the northern route.
It does demand a high degree of coordination and climbers able to be ready at short notice able to ascent or descent many hundrets of meters in highest altitude which is hardly possible
Really shocking what people will stoop to when they want to satisfy their ego and have a sense of accomplishment by climbing a mountain, which in the real world means nothing. The situation certainly exposed all those who stepped over him simply to stand on top of a mountain. The fact that they also trash the mountain by leaving behind their garbage and empty oxygen bottles further demonstrates a lack of respect for the mountain as well. If you packed it in, you should pack it out. Pakistan and Tibet really need to start cracking down on these behaviors.
Get out of the way I'm going for my summit or bust !
Here's another truly insightful take on K2 that I posted recently:
ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
Thanks for watching!
It's interesting that the same person who has the sticktuitiveness, mental and physical strength needed to singlemindedly push themselves to succeed at summiting a death-zone mountain as an amateur is the same person who would step over someone to GET to that summit..
I've hiked and backcountry camped in the Cascades, Appalachians and other places, but I KNOW I don't have what it takes to climb Everest.. What I DO have is the soul to STOP my summit bid to SIT with a dying man for as long as I could.. That's the LEAST I could do.. I couldn't live with myself if I left him to GO UP.. to continue that single- minded trudge towards.. Accomplishment?
I UNDERSTAND how/why someone could continue and think "someone else will do it" .. "I can't..bc I'm not ___ enough" ..strong? Don't have enough O2?
I don't want to judge anybody because not only was I not there, but I personally would rather have a clear conscience than a mountain in the bag..
I'm not trying to be. I'm speaking only for myself..
I wonder if the sherpa felt obligated to stay with their clients.. I can't imagine anyone being able to do a rescue for someone who is non-ambulatory at 24,000+ feet, but if Hassan was reaching out for people, he was at least somewhat cognizant .
To the Despicable 73: For many years there has been an unwritten but absolute rule that, if you come upon someone in distress on the sea or in the mountains, you must do all you can to assist, despite any risk or danger to yourself. Many have died doing so. You failed. Don't come back to the mountains. You are not worthy or welcome. When you tell your grandkids how you tamed K2 be sure to tell them how you had to step over this pesky Pakistani but the after-party was great, hey?
I respect your take, but hope you'll take time to watch this video that takes a deeper look at the human element, where there are some gray areas (esp at 8200 meters): ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
Thanks yes I saw that and absolutely understand that all sorts of factors come into play. At the same time there's a bottom line - these people did nothing - and have to be held to account for that. Ed Hillary, commenting on David Sharp, said "I don't think it matters a damn if he was a member of another party...he was a human being and we would have regarded it as our duty to get him to safety." I think the only ones who can make a difference are the commercial operators. Maybe they can be pressured into offering big discounts to a couple of real climbing experts for each group who can make up a strong rescue team who can practice, plan etc at BC, on the understanding they will climb with the group but will help those in deep distress if necessary. That would be a badge of honour as opposed to one of shame I think
Your clearly have never made an ascent in the Himalayas under these circumstances and your "rule" is not and cannot be the rule there. Easy to judge from your armchair. Endangering more people to effect a dubious rescue is beyond irresponsible. The fact that rescue is impossible is unfortunate, but that's the reality of extreme climbing in the Himalaya. Anyone ascending at extreme altitude should be at peace with that possibility.
I think the situation is closer to swimming or boarding out to help someone being attacked by a shark. What's really interesting is to find out what you actually do do in that situation. As opposed to what you think you'd do.
If these 73 people wouldn't be a sad excuse of a human being, they would all at least, AT LEAST donate a significant amount to that Go Fund Me. That's the least they can do now. Really disgusting behaviour by them. I didn't know they even celebrate in base camp afterwards. Horrible.
Ego also plays a big part in this. People want to reach the summit so bad, they even are willing to step over someone dying. I understand safety first but a lot of people will probably brag about reaching the summit and saw someone dying on their way up. It’s sad 😢
There was only one way. Everyone with limited oxygen. And overcrowded. It would have been practical to let everyone pass before attempting a rescue. Otherwise , you have a whole mountain of people running out of oxygen and dying. You couldn't reach him and descend with so many people going the opposite direction. And a mountain of inexperienced climbers. There were heaps of variables that would have made it difficult for rescue. That was a recipe for mass death disaster. That many people should never have been allowed on the mountain at the same time. Its so sad that no one cared back at base. 😢
If anyone try to help Hassan. God bless you all . Please try to help his family with a little time to comfort them. And fanincial Help To help family. They lost their son. This is so cruel sir I hope you will be help . Sir you are an angel. I wish I could help. Sir you an a Nigel this family Needs. Help this is the shepherd
I understand if you can't take the person with you but to just keep on climbing feels very disturbing. I think too though that some people expected or thought others would help and specially if they where just paying clients they maybe expected professionals to help. He must have had a team, I really wonder what they where doing.
There might have been little that could have been done, but now we can save his children at least
this is so hard to watch I have to be careful what I say here Best I say nothing at all I will certainly make a donation
Truly appreciate that you took the time to watch. Please feel free to comment....I welcome everyone's insight. Thank you!
Hope Hassan can rest in peace. I think there should be a test or examination before giving permit to climb. I never climb any mountain though but i wonder if the reason for not rescuing because it's too dangerous..can it be applied in any situations during the climb? After the press conference, it really left the bitter taste in my mouth. I couldn't forget Hassan and his family 😢 💔
Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts! Much appreciated
I would think theres more honor and respect to save or even try to save a life than climb a mountain . Especially looking like a lemming climbing to the top .
Try this reversal of the standard narrative - "Selfish climbers choose not to stop to perform an impossible rescue" replaced with "Selfless climber, knowing he/she CANNOT be rescued refuses to allow others to needlessly risk their own lives in attempting the impossible".
That is essentially what happened....check out the interview with Angela Benevides of Explorers Web. We discuss that it would have been impossible to save him. This video gives a voice to another perspective. Here is the vid with Angela: ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
This is why the mountains must be closed... Period!
These mountains bring in a HUGE amount of money for the governments and for the people working there. That would be like closing coal mines after an accident....the mountains won't be closed for any purpose. I truly appreciate that you took the time to watch! thank you
@@EverestMystery I understand, but aren't there serious qualifications to be met before a person is allowed to climb these mountains? I understand the hypnotic draw of these behemoths, but somewhere cooler and more rational heads must prevail.
Personally I would be happy just to make it to base camp.
These people are cruel and heartless to treat a human like this.
It seems like it, but they are powerless up there. Please take a few to watch a follow up of this video called K2's New Reality:
ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
The whole tourism around these moutains raises a lot of questions.... RIP Hassan
Great video Thom! Love the "peak baggers" term and your perspective.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you as always for being here!
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. When you go on Everest DO NOT expect to be saved when you're in trouble
I would not be able to pass someone who needs help to reach the summit and be joyful. I would help or go back. But that’s me.
10:10 it makes me think, the experience of hearing about Jesus. And wonder how that one perfect life, death, and resurrection could be ignored as people make their own summit bids… 🤔
Things aren’t that simple up there…
So rookies and not real climbers ruined Everest, now they're ruining K2...great...
That is the prevailing thought... Hope you enjoyed the video and find the other material interesting, as well!
What were they supposed to do to help him? The sherpas went past him too, not just the Western people.
I agree that mountaineering is a stupid activity, but that means you accepted its harsh reality if you choose to participate in it. If you were there to photograph, his death, then you were part of the reason he was on the mountain in the first place.
Okay, even if they got him down, K2 is so remote he still would have passed
You are absolutely correct. In my follow up interview with Angela Benevides we talk about the likelihood that nothing really could have been done...keeping him from ever getting there was the main thing....
Very sad, troubling story, though it should be noted that inexperienced, guided tourists lack initiative and, in fact, are totally incapable of mounting a rescue at 8200 . Even with experienced mountaineers such rescues entail great risk for all at 8200 meters on K2. Commercializing of the big peaks is inevitable, unfortunate, and increasingly, a travesty and this is the consequence. Finally, if we are to be honest, Muhammed should not have been on the mountain and he bears the most responsivity for his demise.
Yes, absolutely correct, here is a story I did shortly after this one called
About K2: Clients Won't Save You (And They're All Clients):
ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
@@EverestMystery I really liked your nuanced and extremely compassionate presentation of the dilemma. I've done climbs often solo (and backed-off climbs) all round the world and a single climbing "expedition" to Cho Oyu in 1993 was enough to convince me that the Himalaya was too problematic in terms of costs, bureaucracy, over-crowding, pollution, ethics, etc. And we haven't even discussed objective dangers which have picked off the best climbers of going on several generations now ... that said, everyone has a right to make their own chose. I totally concur with you idea for responsible standard re cleanup, porter training, insurance, etc. but sadly I see little potential for that to emerge ,, keep up the great work!
The only person who would of tried to stop and help is nimsdai
All that glitters is not gold
does this man has incredibly blue eyes or is it just his shirt ??
This guy had zero chance of survival from the moment he slipped. No one could save him.
Accurate. Check this video out, which discusses that in more detail:
ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
Willy said “ a rescue must start immediately “ yet he didn’t attempt a rescue either.!
If not you… then who????
You were there too.
You might enjoy the companion video to this story, about how most of the people on the mountain these days are clients. K2's Dark Secret: You're on Your Own Up There: ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
The climbers all walk so slowly. I couldnt stand being with them. And then so many are filthy thieves of critical equipment.
It looks like the kind of place where devoting energy to helping others could endanger your own life. I'm not sure I blame anyone for walking past another injured, dying person. Maybe people don't belong there in the first place...seems kinda dumb.
Many would agree, and I essentially do, as well. My follow-up story to this is here, called About K2: Clients Won't Save You (And They're All Clients):
ua-cam.com/video/jhf9csV22f4/v-deo.html
Well if his family actually get the Gofundme money, it will have worked, wouldnt it?
This is becoming a godless sport
Always has been like this. Everyone climbing K2 knows the rules.
@EverestMystery you lost me @0:18 when you said inexperienced. Shame. Shame. Shame.
He was not properly equipped, that is clear.
I don’t buy this. I am a Clinical psychologist specializing in trauma victims, survivors of severe domestic violence. I take other clients as well including pediatrics. As you can imagine my schooling was very long and in depth. We study human behavior..developmental from the time a fetus is in utero all the way through adulthood. We study early on the ego the Id..foundations of psychology. We study how trauma causes brain damage as early as in utero and continues to damage brain formation in babies, toddlers and teens. I have a private practice in which I specialize in intensive trauma therapy mostly women and children, I also work outreach as a domestic violence advocate as well as volunteer individual and group therapy services at 3 shelters. I still do see patients in 2 nearby hospitals psychiatric units which is where I see patients who suffer from many mental illnesses or disorders that I diagnose, devise a treatment plan-meds, therapy schedule, biweekly review of the patients overall condition. I mention the ego prior for a reason. Of all my years of experience, education and patient observation, I learned like all psychologists that the one and only mental disorder that is untreatable this incurable-this is a scientific medical fact that we have known for decades and decades. Narcissistic personality disorder with sociopathy and or psychopathy cannot be explained with neuroscience or any advanced methods to gain data thus giving us a way to treat these people or identifying life factors, chemical imbalance ect. I read of this tragedy when it had just occurred. It struck me at first to identify the extreme narcissistic individuals but then I was not so shocked sadly. There were people who fit dx criteria for NPD with sociopathy. They are the ones who’s existence..their ego could only thrive by putting on a show of grandiosity, they had to display at any cost that they are the crème de la crème, to do this they bury other humans as puppets or pawns to be controlled and used unless the person or puppet no longer serves their agenda-the quest to appear above all else whilst constantly filling their fractured sense of self by using anyone or thing to falsely inflate a twisted ego. They do not feel empathy or remorse. They think only of their wants, needs and create a false reality by lying compulsively..even denying entire occurrences regardless of truth/reality/proof and witnesses. What happened that morning on K2 goes against the natural human way. It is a show of the twisted and dark..inhumane..evil dynamic of a group made up largely of people with varying degrees of narcissistic personality disorder with sociopathic tendencies. There was more than likely the person who had the most severe narcissistic PD, this person would puppet and influence the other narcissists, narcissists can are the ultimate conmen, they can persuade anyone into anything, make people believe things that are false, control others actions by countless means of gaining control. I cannot fathom a human being lying gravely injured, crying, suffering and for people to step over the poor soul, like a discarded thing so they can finish the climb? The thought that agencies proclaim- the government, companies ect ect need to define basically what moral compass applies in this situation..that is sickening to me. There should be no question that if someone is injured all climbing stops, all manpower is dedicated to saving the life of their fellow human. The one crew stayed back, watched in horror at what those people did. They showed love, empathy, care and respect, they went to Pakistan to see the suffering family, connected with them as well as showed selfless compassion in providing much needed monetary funds to the family. this is a display of all that is good, right, just, moral and loving in most of us, in the world despite the darkness there is much light. This is my professional opinion and what ai feel in my soul to be so. We all must meet our maker at some point, meaning those who choose a life full of deep dark wrongs and zero conscience cannot run forever although it is typical for those with sociopathic/psychopathic NPD to believe they will never be held accountable, they denounce God because their houses of cards will fall, their false sense of self will implode and crumble if they embraced God pure goodness prevailing over evil, they would have to change or be faced with the atrocities they commit regularly and have done so often since childhood. Please Psychiatrists or psychologists who have in depth knowledge and experience in NPD I ask you to share your professional and personal thoughts, beliefs and knowledge regarding this case. May God Bless Muhammad and his family abundantly for all eternity. 🙏🏼
As a psychologist, you are correct about NPD.
I'm a professional in a similar field. And even so, wouldnt have believed how extreme it can get. I've since, also been under personal attack for over 20 years by a whole gang of narcissists. Including 2 exs. And it is truly unbelievable what they can convince others to believe without, as you say, proof, evidence, eyewitnesses etc.
Finally my lawyer showed me a letter which was so convincing, I almost believed it about myself. Except I was there at the time!
They also use each other to be "so-called" independent witnesses for verification.
And also use authorities of every kind, in their made-up stories.
You'd think Secret Services would have the intelligence to recognise a conspiracy...but sadly... No!
Fortunately Police as well as Child Services are more experienced, and want actual proof. (Which doesnt exist)
My real crime was to just be born, to my absolutely insanely jealous 3 year older brother. Who was dropped by my mother, to just love me!! I'm not sure that it was actually worth being born, to endure this amount of shit!
What was truly funny was when they tried it on with political friends! My friends just said "yeah, yeah...bullshit, bullshit!"
It turned out that even these extreme techniques were rather passe, politically, to political opponents. And my parlimentary friends (both State and Federal) had checked me out deeply, already, over many years. I didnt know that. And I was told I was a 'cleanskin', whatever that means.
BTW I wouldnt label ALL those K2 climbers that way. Some would just be scared, struggling themselves, not wanting to know, or oblivious too, I suspect. Regards.
This is so sad…but it kinda rings a bell for me, like racism…because I’ve heard of other mountain and diving accidents and always always if the victim is caucasian people so try to help them and give them comfort or stay with them until they are rescued or die and if they die they try to recover the body (if they can) but this is way to harsh and cruel
There are people of all races who remain on mountains. I think that given the location of the gentleman this was an equal opportunity situation. A caucasian gentleman passed away under the Hillary Step in 2019 and and he is still right there in plain site. Here is a short about it, which I hope to turn into a long form video sometime soon: ua-cam.com/users/shortsNeiS9qHN2xU
Thank you for being here and sharing your thoughts!
You could be Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk and you're still not getting rescued if you're in that position on the bottleneck.
Have Mountaineers Lost Their Soul?
THEY NEVER HAD ONE IN THE FIRST PLACE
That is actually hilarious!
Save yourselves 🏃🏽♀️🏃🏽♀️🏃🏽♀️🏃🏽♀️
lol couldnt do anymore, we did everything we could.. yeh in this world scaling everest costs you 100 grand.. 100 grand to scale the mountain or 100grand to stop half way to rescue someone.. most of the people know what it takes to make that sort of money and understand they did not go there as part of a rescue team.. if you introduce massive rescue teams, the whole thing about the mountain just wont feel so good anymore, and if theres less risk there is less reward.. we need to stop blaming others when clearly this person put themselves in this position to begin with,.. everyone scales the mountain understanding they do so at their own risk, so there is no use trying to debate something when it was already agreed before hand
All those people - they couldn't come together to make sure Hassan was rescued? Horrible. I wouldn't be able to live with myself, if I walked over a stranded, dangling person. How much is a life worth; Not as much as a paid trip to the summit, it appears.
They couldn't. The bottleneck is infamous for being quite literally one of the worst possible places to have an accident like this on Earth.