Jim Cornette on The Ten Bell Salute & How The Territories Dealt With A Wrestler Passing
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- From Episode 173 of Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Artwork by Travis Heckel!
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This man's storytelling abilities are incredible and he really takes you there.
@Wacky D Squared XII lol
@Wacky D Squared XII I'm a simpleton and sometimes it can be pretty hard to confuse or manipulate me.
@Steven Bristol The first question of every non-wrestlingfan is "You know this is not real?" We are not living in the 80s
@Steven Bristol Nothing to do with speech and persuasion. You just know in your subconscious he's right.
I agree he is very under rated
Jim Herd should’ve done a 10 bell salute to ratings every time the Ding Dongs came out
That's hilariously macabre.
I laughed, but it's sad how true that is lol
Lol
More like a 10 ding salute
Jim is versatile, he has done everything in the wrestling business from carrying people's bags setting up rings booking Main Events being in Main Events wrestling managing everything and he has that educated tongue he's already a professional and he makes it fun to listen to and he does his research don't give a SHIT all-around journalist kudos to Jim Cornette 🏸🏸🏸🏸🏆👍
Damn Straight
Also photography!
I worked as a heel for a local promotion a few years ago, and the crowds were well into the kayfabe there. I prided myself on the fact I could make kids cry with a look and get the parents mad at me fairly quickly with just a few words (I studied a lot of promos from the likes of the dudleys in ecw to gain that skill). If I died and the fans booed when it was announced, I'd be pretty proud of that, it would feel right.
Suspend of believe. I assume even Hillbilllies use the internet to cheer for Trump on Twitter
I remember the ten bell salute for Andre on Raw, it was like the first or second show. The whole roster didn't come out, it was eerie.
Pre-end of kayfabe.
Yeah I remember that. As an 7-year old kid, Andre was the first wrestler who had died at that point who I grew up watching. It was a strange feeling. Not too long after Kerry Von Erich committed suicide.
The first 10-bell salute I remember was for Argentine Rocca in March, 1977
I liked on ECW on the Balls Mahoney tribute where Tommy Dreamer did a nice little speech saying how Balls Hated the ten bell salute and Dreamer said that they would not do one and he said there was only one way to celebrate Balls and they played his theme song, AC/DC's I've Got Big Balls and the audience and half the wrestlers in the ring sang along, it was pretty touching.
Balls To The Wall by Accept should’ve been his ring entrance music
Um I am guessing you mean some other promotion? Because Balls died years later when ECW was done and out of business
@@spencer2745 Yeah, if I remember correctly, Balls actually worked for WWE for a little bit when they had their ECW brand.
@@CreightonChaney-io4xv It doesnt have as good a sing along chorus as Ive Got Big Balls but it also would have been a excellent choice
Every time I hear that song, I can't help but laugh my ass off!🤣🤣
Back in the 70s in TN, when Whitey Caldwell died they had a prayer at a match. They also took a collection for his family. Heels were included, including the legendary Ron Wright.
I remember when Bruiser Brody died he got the 10 bell salute, I've seen so many even back in territory days that did it, but talent were never there, the announcer would ask for silence before the salute maybe a few officials would be around. Bobby Shane died they cheered. Sam Bass was really bad they cheered like mad but Sam would be happy as a heel times were so different with the levels of dedication to kayfabe.
I seen that on Bobby Shane's passing that Jack Brisco felt sick because they were cheering a heel wrestler died.
@@jmb01550 Yep, but back then it was also seen as a testament of how good a talent was because they sold the heel they were so good, still would hurt if u were Briscoe hearing that it would make u feel that way
I'll ever forget Michael Hayes' on air promo when David Von Erich died. He kept kayfabe but gave proper respect.
Tbf, heels in the past lived to be hated. I don't think they would care of fans booing them after death. Leave sadness and traditional griefing to their respectives friends and families.
They lived to make some motherfucking money. Of course they didn't care after they have passed
Probably would’ve made a couple of em have a laugh about it
The territories heels had some intense heat by the sounds of it!!! Having their deaths cheered in the arena!
Brian Pillman had a heart problem that nobody knew about.
Read Crazy Like A Fox by Liam O'Rourke. That will give you the real story on Pillman. Also a great read.
Shawn Michaels said he seem him taking hand fulls of pills in the locker room. Not long before he died.
Frank Hester is a name I haven't heard in close to 50 years. Every now and then he showed up in the Central States territory wrestling as a mid-card Babyface. He was billed as being from Amarillo, Texas if I remember right.
I'm still waiting for the 10 bell salute for The Fiend.
I was thinking of Andy Kaufman's death,
& Lawler goes "That's too bad."
I remember when one of the Von Erichs had died and they were doing a tribute episode on WCCW, they had a quick interview with Michael Hayes where he expressed regret for the death and said he wasn't sure if their feud would continue.
Wasn't it Kerry Von Erich?. I think so no.
With hindsight, wrapping it up would have probably been a good idea.
No, it was David in 1984. When Kerry died in 1993, there was no territory and no feud.
Jesus Christ, that is the greatest heat any heel could ask for. I'd be proud of what I accomplished if I knew the fans cheered because my evil, heinous ass that tormented their heroes had died unexpectedly.
I used to read a magazine called Pro Wrestling Illustrated. They had a writer named Eddie Ellner who was notorious for hating babyfaces because they "pandered" to the fans. The one time he broke character was shortly after Magnum T.A.'s career ending (nearly life ending) accident where he reported that someone had sent him a letter gloating about Allen's misfortune, but sent him a crude drawing of Allen laying shattered in a pool of blood next to a mangled car with the caption "Good F***ing riddance. Ellner lashed out at the man and anyone else who would be inclined to agree with the guy stating that while he had more respect for the rulebreakers he would never wish such awfulness upon a fan favorite. I think it was around this time that wrestlers started to break K-Fabe slightly stating thier respect for a fallen opponent, even if they spent most of thier time beating the snot out of them.
They featured the 10-bell salute for a dead boxer in "The Harder They Fall," Humphrey Bogart's last movie in 1956.
Stardom did one for Hana Kimura and I thought it was really cool that it's not just something we do here in the States, but something that's done in wrestling as a whole. I've seen them do it when someone retires, too.
Misawa had ten bells too
In Boxing they did when Arthur Ashe passed from AIDS in 1993 it was before the Riddick Bowe world title fight
It must have been so exciting to work in such a secretive industry. Imagine seeing people truly believe these crazy angles!
I don’t mind that they do a unified roster today when someone passes. That being said I understand why in the past they had to do something different. The way I see it if it’s a baby face you bring all the baby faces out to the ring, and then just have the heel come out to the curtain, and then quietly go back to their locker room. If it’s a heel you have you baby’s face of impeccable character come out get on the mic and say words to the effect that no matter how much you hate a person in life in death they deserve some small amount of respect , then you do the ten bell salute with both locker rooms coming out to their respective curtains and standing there. From that point to go with the mood of the crowd , if they are kind enough you let them move a little closer to the ring, if not you have the wrestlers go back to their locker rooms
Houston promoter Paul Boesch used the regular interview time to announce Gino's death and one or two of the Von Erich's deaths - interestingly, he mentioned their real names - as far as I know, there was nothing at the matches (as I recall, Houston was then part of MidSouth). I remember when Pak Song appeared in Houston in the early to mid 70s - part of his gimmick was to bust open metal cans of juice with karate chops.
World Class had their announcer it wasn't Marc Lowerance it was their regular TV announcer broke the news of Gino's passing in 1986 and with David Von Erich's passing in 1984 with more the next week.
Bill Mercer.B.W.
I noticed on the most recent episode of DARK, Diamante did both the I kiss and pointed up. Matt Sydal pointed up as well and a large number of performers wore bands on their biceps with RIP Brodie Lee on it.
I also got a good laugh over Dark Order Negative One's brawl with a Marko Stunt action figure
And that last sentence in your comment is why AEW will never be a serious competitor to WWE
@@WorldTravelA320 except with how AEW takes care of their talent. In that they actually take care of their talent.
Also, Mr. Grinch, wrestling's key demographic is kids. As the eldest of 5, kids like having fun, being goofy, laughing.
Most of WWE's funny moments are not in the script. The only ones that are happen in the Firefly FunHouse.
I met Chris Jericho 2 years ago. He never said he wrestled for WWE when we spoke. He said he wrestled for Vince.
AEW also has Abadon. A character I adore, whom Brodie told her to never change. Whom people said should be Sister Abigail. Abadon is perfection as Abadon because she used to be a cosplayer and is the pure opposite of John Cena in the ring. She has over 20 moves in he growing arsenal. John Cena's 6th move of doom SU-HUUUUUUKED.
If they're not a threat, ;why can't I show an image of Chris Jericho, but likely get away with one that's MJF as an extra next to Samoa Joe?
@@NickCamokidVisneski they don't want an image of Jericho as he would spill over into surrounding screens.
I actually had hope for AEW but instead they are turning into WCW 3.0
The latest incident being Snoop Dogg doing a frog splash.
I remember when Gino Hernandez passed. They just announced it at the beginning of World Class. Obviously in today’s world he would have got the 10 bell salute. R.I.P. Gino.
I seen a video of someone asking Jerry Lawler about Andy Kaufman right after he died.. He kept ksyfabe and said something "its good he died cuz I was gonna have to do it for him" or something close to that, but he was obviously fighting back tears cuz he was hurt for real
Jim has stories for days
I read gart hart's book and he said pak son nam looked really sick in his final stint of the United states. His body looked so sickly and bones were sticking out of his ribs so gary hart felt he was in no condition to wrestle so he made him his own personal "bodyguard." So with his clothes on, it was difficult to tell how sick he really was. But then it got even worse so he just went back to his country where he died about 6 weeks later. But he was getting and looking really sick in his final year in the US. Great autobiography by gary hart which is available on audiobook on UA-cam. Best wrestling book of all time. Highly recommended. It's a must listen. You cant even buy it because the book has been out of print for a long time already.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikid%C5%8Dzan
It mentioned how he died on here
@@TheGenomario this is another guy who was killed by the yakuza u knucklehead lol
If I recall, when Andre the Giant died in early 1993. The wrestlers didn't come out. But I'm sure they did a 10 Bell Salute. I think, but i might be wrong, but Howard Finckle or Vince McMahon made the announcement, and then they did the 10 Bell Salute. No wrestlers came out, it was just a shot of the venue if I'm right and correct on that. But I could be wrong. I know i'am right when it comes to Andre the Giant, in terms of no wrestlers coming out and just having an announcement and a 10 Bell Salute. I believe it was in the Manhattan Centre in New York City, the announcement was made on one of the first episodes of Monday Night Raw. Cheers from Tom.
The ten bell salute was originally from boxing. An announcement, a moment of silence, and a “final ten count”.
I remember that some people had a knee-jerk reaction that Kevin Sullivan was responsible for the deaths of Chris Benoit, Daniel Benoit and Woman.
There are still people nowadays that feel that Kevin Sullivan was responsible for the deaths of Chris Benoit, Daniel Benoit and Woman.
@@ChrisWoollett And those people are morons, pure and simple.
lol when they cheered the heels death... I bet those wrestlers would have been looking down feeling quite proud and happy about that... "I got so much heat they fucking cheered my death!" That is white hot heat right there, you have to be some fucking heel for that!
I was at a awa territory house match and someone died and they did a 10 bell salute but everyone stayed in the back
"House show" but yeah. Same with NCWA in Clayton, NC.
I think faces and heels standing in a memorial service is started when WWE does a 9/11 memorial in 2001. (I didn't remember that they have that when both Gorilla Monsoon and Owen Hart died in 1999)
@@TNLable They did do it for Owen as well to open RAW.
@@TNLable They did for Owen Hart.
@@jefflarson3693 thanks for suggesting now I saw it.
Damn looks like many guys stare at Vince McMahon so bad
The 10-bell salute originated in boxing. It's been a fixture for decades in that sport
The first 10 bell salute I ever saw in wrestling was wwf Brian Pullman circa 1997
Mine too.
I can understand the ten bell salute mainly because so many other wrestlers wrestled with some who passed away or they we're in the same organization
I googled Pak Song Nam and Wikipedia states that he died in "1980 or April 1982 or 1984." God dang! The site also states that he died from Marfan syndrome.
I wonder how the fans at the arena reacted when they announced Gino's death. Did he get a 10 bell salute despite being a heel?
I don't know if I ever remember one in wrestling until recently but you see them all the time in boxing the ring announcer would announce it then they would do a moment of silence with a 10 Bell salute
I dont think anything would make a territory heel smile more than knowing the crowd cheered when they heard of their death. Thats how you know you’re over.
I remember hearing a story about when The Grand Wizard died that Captain Lou was asked about it on a radio interview and he tried to kayfabe as if The Wizard hadn't died.
Owen Hart’s tribute show still has me in tears. I do remember David Von Erich’s tribute show where Kerry beat Flair for the title.
You can't pay for that type of heat these days...
Nia Jax. Jinder Mahal. Colby Covington in UFC.
@@Ticketman99 I doubt into today's age people would cheer when someone passed...
I remember watching when Andre died and howard finkle announced it and they rang the bell 10 times and the fans applauded and showed a pic and faded to black
I started watching wrestling in 1979 or so when I was 7. Lived in NYC and WWF on channel 9 WOR at midnight was all we had at the time. The earliest wrestler death I can remember is Rick McGraw and then maybe David Von Erich a few yrs later and both were announced on WWF TV but I don't recall a 10 bell salute. It's possible but just can't remember.
Bass had nuclear heat!
When tennis player Arthur Ashe died there was a major boxing match about to happen and they did a 10 bell salute.
Cheering for the heel's death is really cold. There have been famous people, that I thought were horrible human beings, that upon hearing about their death I'll admit I felt a little bit of joy. But I felt kind of bad about it and certainly wouldn't express it openly. It's one thing to think "good riddance to that guy" in your head and another to cheer in public. Heels are jerks but they're not dictators or serial killers.
“...I’ve not been at a boxing event when it’s happened, I’ve been at too many wrestling events when it’s happened...” damn
Kayfabe was real back in the day👌
I seem to remember AWA doing it on their weekly tv show. They showed the wrestler's pic (don't remember who it was) on the screen and you hear the bell ring.
I remember when Finkel was the only guy out there to announce and ask the crowd for a moment of silence while the bell rings 10 times.
My aunt and uncle were convinced other wrestlers killed Hercules Cortez after he was killed in a car accident. Their reasoning was that he was too good and the other wrestlers were afraid of him so they ganged up on him killed him. To them it was murder.
I remember when the Magnum car accident made the news and was wondering if they did another Horsemen video and this one went bad.
God I absolutely hate Cornett but he's SUCH an amazing and talented story teller, and is a veteran in the business. I despise the guy, but I respect him.
Many people dislike Jim for various reasons and people have called him racist etc... But Jim Cornette is a huge part of wrestling
So basically the heels would be treated as if Hitler died. Daaaaamn kayfabe was that over back then.
@Steven Bristol yes back in those days wrestling was religion..
@Steven Bristol Yeah it boggles my mind. I get kids thinking it was real, hell, I'm sure some kids think what we have now is real, but no adult should be able to watch a match, even in that day and age, when the stuff they did was more realistic, and believe they are watching 2 guys literally trying to beat the fuck out of each other so one of them can pin the other one for a 3 count.
@Steven Bristol Oh I have seen those clips and then some. They actually had police escorts and in one case, Cornette had to wear a bullet-proof vest to a show. It was literally to the level of evangelical Christianity their faith was.
Jay Youngblood comes to mind when a young talented wrestler passes away.
Hello from Spain
¿Qué tal?
@@takerdust bien
When David Von Erich passed it was covered on every wrestling program. Every promotion.
The perspective on wrestling has changed a lot in comparison to the old times. Part of that had to do with how the wrestlers carried themselves and not having access to the internet certainly helped kept things in the dark.
In any case, the business had been exposed so much since then. And with wrestlers that you see in AEW for example, those guys certainly don't help things when it comes to ever believing in wrestling again.
And so wrestling now, is sorta this "wink" to the audience to let everyone know, "This is just a performance guys! Remember that ;) " It doesn't care in ever trying to be realistic in any aspect at all anymore. It's a fictitious little show now. And that's what it wants to be. Lame.
Hit the nail on the head. I wish the wrestlers would take kayfabe serious on and off the show. If they won't stay in character on social media, they need to get the fuck off it. It doesn't matter that we know it's work, you don't slap the audience in the face with that fact every chance you get. It'd be like Arnold Schwarzenegger turning to the camera in a Terminator movie and going "I'm not really a robot from the future, now I will laugh mockingly at you for enjoying this."
@@robintst I partially agree about the social media part. I mean, Charlotte Flair should be her wrestling character on social media, but Ashley Fliehr should be free to shit on asshole fans online and stick up for anyone who is wrongfully taking abuse from those asshole fans online. For example, I remember reading about someone talking shit about Eva Marie to Charlotte, and Charlotte defending her. Now Charlotte shouldn't really give a shit about someone bashing Eva, but Ashley should be allowed to defend a colleague, or former colleague without people throwing a fit about kayfabe. This admittedly fails when it comes to wrestlers who use their real names though. I mean, Dave Bautista, who wrestled as Dave Batista might have been able to do it, but Kurt Angle would have been bitched at for breaking kayfabe, if he had supported someone that the onscreen character wouldn't have.
MMA. That's all.
This isn't a new thing. The Undertaker was around in the 80's. You must be 60+ years old to long for the days when wrestling appeared even remotely real, and even then you had to be an idiot to actually believe it was real.
@@robintst
If they took kayfabe seriously it would look more like a joke nowadays.
Imagine the terminator going off the set and saying, hasta la vista baby and I'll be back. Never removing his jacket or shades. Always talking like a robot....
All so u believe the movies real.
Even tho u already know its just a movie.
Imagine Jim Carrey pretending to be Eggman at the store until his next film is out.
Or Joaquin Phoenix going to the dentist dressed as the joker... All for kayfabe.
i remember clearly when gino died and the crowd certainly did NOT cheer. he had huge heat but c'mon, the fans wernt that stupid. in fact i dont remember a crowd cheering any heels death.
The 10 bell salute is the most poignant moment in all of sports.
@Wacky D Squared XII ...
The fact he can remember so many key details so vividly is amazing.
Hard to believe anyone could take wrestling that seriously
Cornette looks like he is about to smash a turntable.
Why they got Jim looking so happy to ring the salute.
...they cheered?...that's right!...say goodnight to the bad guy!!!...
I never really got the idea that there couldn't be any circumstances where the heels and babyfaces can't be seen together. In legitimate combat sports, there are a lot of times there's bad blood between various fighters, yet they still might still be in the same place for promotional events etc. Kayfabe is one thing, but when your taking it to a stricter standard than actual legitimate sports, it seems somehow less realistic rather than more.
Yeah, it's ridiculous to have people with Smartphones and the internet all over the place and pretend we all are still living in the 80s.
Completely agree.
Perhaps, but professional wrestling also made more money than the legit combat sports...or should I say "grossed" because I'm sure those riots cut into the profits a bit. Still, I cannot remember a mixed martial arts or kick boxing fight where the heel was beating the baby face and more than two fans hit the ring. I've never seen a boxer have to fight his way to or from the ring, much less both ways like Ox Baker. Association football(soccer) is the only legit sport I can think of left that invokes the as strong a response as professional wrestling used to...but the riots do cut into the profit that comes with a football league.
@@insupportofjunhado Maybe it did on a volume basis (because wrestling ran mostly every night), but a huge boxing match can, and always could, out-gross any other combat sport.
It says pak song nam had marfan syndrome. He was 6'6. Google him man he was really thin like wow
In every sport there’s tributes
I was at an ECW event and there was a 10 bell salute for Ravishing Rick Rude some idiot wasn’t quiet during the salute so Paul Heyman and all of the ECW wrestlers berated him and then threw him out of the building on his way out of the building everyone through batteries drinks and spit on him what a time in Wrestling
WWE sucks because they are picky about who they should give the 10-bell salute to and who they shouldn't give the 10-bell salute to. Now, I understand that WWE never gave Chris Benoit and Jimmy Snuka a 10-bell salute, which is understandable, but I'm talking about most wrestlers who did not commit crimes who did not get a 10-bell salute. I'm talking about wrestlers such as Umaga, Ashley Massaro, Zeus (Black wrestler) and vice versa.
Tiny Lister was an actor with no background in wrestling who only briefly appeared as Zeus and was never involved in anything pivotal or historic, so that one kind of makes sense. He really wasn't in the fraternity, he was a celebrity guest.
"The Korean Assassin" died of Marfan syndrome.
After Vince McMahon passes away I'll assume that there will be a ten-bell salute for him and will some people be cheering?
aew couldn't even get JON HUBER's right. They played 11 even though fans started chanting after 10.
For whom the bell tolls ... the tradition began before modern organized sport.
Last 10 bell salutes I've seen in boxing was Arturo Gatti and Hector Comacho
I remember in past in old wwf if wrestler died they did 10 bells but nobody was standing like wrestlers and after fans clap etc since then they wanna keep anything real dont wanna see wrestlers good or bad unite
👍
Park Song really did look bad. I watched an old match from 1980 against Mr. Hugo and you can clearly see his ribs
C'mon Jim we need a documentary of your life in pro wrestling.
The Chris Adams/Gino Hernandez angle...dang it, I was 13 yrs old when that happened. But EVERYBODY knew Gino was doing coke, so...
When you can surprise Cornette on wrestling you are doing good.
If I died a heel and got booed, it would just feel right.
10 bells is military or naval? Haratio Nelson era?
Just looked up PAC s o n on Wikipedia it said he died in 1980 or April of 82 or 84
Pak Song had Marfan syndrome.
Dude busted his neck on the rope and passed... who was that..
7:53 lol I’m sure it was a gram, an ounce wouldn’t fit in a boot if he’s wearing the shit lol
What about rick quickdraw mcgraw died suddenly too very young
Drugs
I think he was the Macho Mans debut match opponent in wwf
Who cares bout who stands togather? Its about the the fallen wrestler, personally i liked old ways wen they jus annonced it in ring w/ out nobody coming out
I thought Chris Adams killed him too back then....i was 10!
No problem you were a kid back then the problem was grown men and women believe it to
Loved gino and Chris together as a team.......great heels!
Keep saying today fans won't come close how fans was then since they actually believe and would hurt other wrestlers because they favorite was being beat in ring
If you are a good wrestling heel and you die and somehow found out that when they announced your passing the crowd cheered you yourself would probably smile and and say well I did my job
In case you can't tell I always comment when I Jim talk about it right then me and my father were watching wccw when they announced that Gino Hernandez had died and my dad said well I bet he doesn't care talking about Chris Adams and my dad absolutely new that it was scripted
If Benoit is still alive did he get off the roids? I hope so. Just haven't seen him in awhile. Be in his mid 50s now. Is he shriveled up like Luger?
Shit Benoit still looks better than Luger as of 2021.
@@jimmyv3170 that is good to hear. Glad to hear it. At least no one died in front of Benoit like Liz in front of Lex.
Benoit killed his wife killed his son then killed himself in 2007 but yep he still looks better than Luger
@@ADAMdinho1 fake news that was Kevin Sullivan and the Dungeon of Doom
Boxing is where I first heard it.
Song died from Marfan syndrome.[1]