great video mate, very informative. I personally have been spot welding my batteries for a few months now, mainly because I had issues with soldering cell tops and many cells vented because the insulator melted and created a short in the cells. personally I would recommend weld all my cells
I'm doing the same thing but using 3 amp fast acting pico fuse. Also building a custom 14s 112p battery. The idea I'm trying out is to integrate the twisted copper in this video with the black plastic cell holders. This can be done with a PCB made out of 6mm or more g10(fiberglass sheet) with a 6 oz or .2mm copper layer with spaced pads etched into the copper making series and parallel connections. Holes will be cnc machined in the g10 for 18650 cells. The cells are connected to the copper pads using a fuse for positives and 8mm by .15mm nickel strips are used for negatives. Connections to the cells is done using spot welding and connections to the PCB are done by spot welding, soldering or hot air reflow soldering.
DIY Tech & Repairsi It turns out I can get pico fuses for 30 cents, 1,568 cells with one pico fuse apiece is 470$. The reason I was going that route is because they blow at a guaranteed current, quickly and it occurs only in the little casing around each fuse, however it is costly. I mite use fuse wire like in your link in the description. I was having issues finding large rolls of fuse wire at the 3-5 amp range. Also made a lot of progress on my 14s 112p battery. Previous design had two large PCBs each acting as cell holders and busbars. It became obvious if a cells fuse did blow and a cell was ruined I would have to disassemble one entire pcb which is 784 fuses and 784 nickel strips plus one fuse or nickel strip on the other pcb just to replace one cell. That's no good, so one of the PCBs is now redesigned to let cells slide in and out. The cells are held in place using 7 separate smaller PCBs per 112 cell parallel group. The 7 smaller PCBs have a smaller hole than an 18650, holding the 16 cells in place. Now if a cell blows I only have to disassemble 8 fuses and 8 nickel strips plus one fuse or nickel strip on the other large PCB which didn't need a design change.
I don't understand why you don't use zinc strips? the wires are like fuses, but a thin belt would also work, and in addition, points would be scored faster than soldering something
Would this work on ebike battery pack, where instead of 5a fuse wire to use 10A fuse wire and with maximum 40a at discharge in 4 paralel cells? I am not sure if this is better than nickel strip, as it need to spotweld in 2 strips to get it handle 10a
Maybe just 1 layer. Looking on ebay, 8mm x .15mm x 5000mm strip is sold. Don't know how much current you could run through it, but might eliminate all soldering. Suppose you could spot weld all the series connection too, 100p7s would make nice 24V battery. Also instead of lengthwise you could go widthwise or 4 per strip, then you could alternate the cells positive negative, up and down and create, a strip 8 cells (2 per 4 battery's and create a complete battery quickly).
I guess you do 7s100p and not the other way around. Unless you want 100 strings of 7s :) This one is good to determine what you need: endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=68005
Have you seen any difference between one probe tip or the other contacting the fuse wire? On my spot welder, it seems to weld a bit better if I use the negative probe on top of the fuse wire. Excellent tests !!!
I don’t unserstand why the small fuse wires don’t need to be soldered also with the main big copper wire they cross. Will they keep good contact anyway?
how do you know if a wire fuse is blown ?, besides the visual inspection of curse, i want to make sure all cells have a good conection after i have finished my pack. thanks !
Saul Gonzalez if the fuse was blown at full charge just meassure the difference at low charge and the cells with blown fuse will have other voltage. either that or touching the fuse wire. the pack will also have lower capacity so you will find the pack that way too
Voltage shouldn't drop. The point of doing this style of Tesla-fuse-attachment is that you're tab welding to in a parallel pack. Total voltage should be very consistent ( and you want to install batteries that are matched and within ~0.05V when fully charged. ) ... what will change is the amp-hour capacity of the module with a failed/fuse blown cell.
@@TheMakersWorkshop the individual cell will have a different voltage if it has blown a wire. Otherwise yes it becomes very difficult to tell which one is bad without visual inspection. Capacity potential is not easily determined.
I know this comment is 2 years old but for anyone else asking; Put your multimeter on the DC voltage setting. Connect one multimeter probe / clip to the - or + bus bar. Then go across and touch the other probe to the other side of the cells. If it reads 0v then you are good (no potential difference). If it reads 4 volts or whatever it means there is potential going through your meter (when it should be going through your fuse wire) which shows there is a connection issue.
The bit I am not understanding about off of this building batteries business - a lot of these cells are rated to 15 - 20 amp output. if you using 1 - 5 amp fuse wire, why are all the fuse wire's not blowing under heavy load ???
The cells are rated at perhaps 1-2A out. Im using laptop cells. But thats not what decides what goes out. The internal resistance does this. Im using 5A fuse wire that blows at up to 7-10A. Im running at most 20A per pack and thats if we average it out to 0.25A per cell. This is not true since the IR differ but it does not differ that much so that 1 cell gets all the load and therefore does not blow the fuse wire. Hope that explains the reason
The batteries bank are assembled to have a low current drain per battery. Example 100 batteries suppling .5 amps is 50 amps of current. 460 Volts motor - 3-phase : 1.25 amps/hp. So 50 amps = 62 HP. A Tesla 85Kw battery has 7,104 total cells. If the current draw is greater than designed the fuse blows.
is the pack you are welding with that twisted bus bar wire running around it, considered all parallel? If I was using 30Q cells with 15A draw per cell, how thick of fuse wire would I use?
You need fuse wire that wont blow on your normal use but protect over-load. But I guess you going to build a new pack? A new pack i wouldnt fuse on cell level. ANd 15A does not sound like powerwall but more like an EV or something and then you need all current you can and fuse wire introduces more resistance.
@@DIYTechRepairs I see EVERYONE doing the fuse thing for EV's... and Tesla does it also at the cell level...they use 29AWG pure aluminum wire... yes, batteries will be new, EV, will laser cut custom copper buss bars. 18S30P :)
Did you have any problems with the circuit power breaking, using this welder? What breaker do you have? In my house I have 15 amps breaker. Do you think is ok for these machine?
Good job! But next time place your Camera focusing what you do. Your hand were in the way blocking the view while you were welding and cutting the excess of wire. That's only my suggestion.
i wonder if there are chinese suppliers of the fuse wires if you arent in a rush.. i bet its just tinned copper wire at the right diameter so.. anyone?
Im not sure I understand? A fuse must always be in between one and the other side. And that is series? All my cells are in paralell but the fuse is still in serie with the cell as you can see. Then I also have fuses on every string of packs as well .
great video mate, very informative. I personally have been spot welding my batteries for a few months now, mainly because I had issues with soldering cell tops and many cells vented because the insulator melted and created a short in the cells. personally I would recommend weld all my cells
Really, really nice, man! Great machine! I'm going to make one myself soon enough, because it's really expensive for me for now.
I had wondered why this couldn't be done, thanks for doing it and proving it can be done.
I'm doing the same thing but using 3 amp fast acting pico fuse. Also building a custom 14s 112p battery. The idea I'm trying out is to integrate the twisted copper in this video with the black plastic cell holders. This can be done with a PCB made out of 6mm or more g10(fiberglass sheet) with a 6 oz or .2mm copper layer with spaced pads etched into the copper making series and parallel connections. Holes will be cnc machined in the g10 for 18650 cells. The cells are connected to the copper pads using a fuse for positives and 8mm by .15mm nickel strips are used for negatives. Connections to the cells is done using spot welding and connections to the PCB are done by spot welding, soldering or hot air reflow soldering.
Shannon Williams Nice!
DIY Tech & Repairsi It turns out I can get pico fuses for 30 cents, 1,568 cells with one pico fuse apiece is 470$. The reason I was going that route is because they blow at a guaranteed current, quickly and it occurs only in the little casing around each fuse, however it is costly. I mite use fuse wire like in your link in the description. I was having issues finding large rolls of fuse wire at the 3-5 amp range.
Also made a lot of progress on my 14s 112p battery. Previous design had two large PCBs each acting as cell holders and busbars. It became obvious if a cells fuse did blow and a cell was ruined I would have to disassemble one entire pcb which is 784 fuses and 784 nickel strips plus one fuse or nickel strip on the other pcb just to replace one cell. That's no good, so one of the PCBs is now redesigned to let cells slide in and out. The cells are held in place using 7 separate smaller PCBs per 112 cell parallel group. The 7 smaller PCBs have a smaller hole than an 18650, holding the 16 cells in place. Now if a cell blows I only have to disassemble 8 fuses and 8 nickel strips plus one fuse or nickel strip on the other large PCB which didn't need a design change.
Oh very nice my Friend!
What about use the nickel strip instead for better spot welldering? Thanks for demostration!
Excellent video. Worked for me.
good idea i thought the same the first time i saw a tesla fuse :)
That's a great idea to spot-weld the fuse wires to the cells. :-)
Very good methodology. Looks great.
Good information and you even do some testing. Thank you!
As always, a useful exploration.
Thank you for the instructions. I’m learning.
Kumar.
Clever tests i like.
Many idears thanks
I don't understand why you don't use zinc strips? the wires are like fuses, but a thin belt would also work, and in addition, points would be scored faster than soldering something
Any success spotwelding tesla 21700 cell?
How about using Lead-free Low Temperature Melt Melting Point 138°C Solder Paste???
Did you test if yor 5A fuse fire blown, if you drain from battery more than 5a?
Would this work on ebike battery pack, where instead of 5a fuse wire to use 10A fuse wire and with maximum 40a at discharge in 4 paralel cells? I am not sure if this is better than nickel strip, as it need to spotweld in 2 strips to get it handle 10a
I I am thinking of buying this. However for the middle strip I think I would use 2 layers of spot welding ribbon and just spot weld it.
Its doable yes. 2 layers can be tricky to weld depeding on welder and thickness.
Maybe just 1 layer. Looking on ebay, 8mm x .15mm x 5000mm strip is sold. Don't know how much current you could run through it, but might eliminate all soldering. Suppose you could spot weld all the series connection too, 100p7s would make nice 24V battery. Also instead of lengthwise you could go widthwise or 4 per strip, then you could alternate the cells positive negative, up and down and create, a strip 8 cells (2 per 4 battery's and create a complete battery quickly).
I guess you do 7s100p and not the other way around. Unless you want 100 strings of 7s :) This one is good to determine what you need: endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=68005
Nice innovation.
Have you seen any difference between one probe tip or the other contacting the fuse wire? On my spot welder, it seems to weld a bit better if I use the negative probe on top of the fuse wire. Excellent tests !!!
True. My diy is the same. The negative probe does most of the work.
I don’t unserstand why the small fuse wires don’t need to be soldered also with the main big copper wire they cross. Will they keep good contact anyway?
check 15 minutes in the video :)
Can you spotweld fuse wire to tesla module (busbar is made of aluminum). have you tried to spotweld copper fuse wire to aluminum?
No. You need to use Sonic or laser welding.
Thank you
Hi! Really nice video. Thank you for help! I have one question. What makes this new version of tab welder better than the old?
709ad have a fan for instance and a digital display. 709a doesnt not have that. The cooling is one thing that makes it better.
I was told by my doctor not to use the spot welder cause of my ICD heart device. Nice video
Is it necessary to pull the older nickle strip off the cell? Or can I weld/solder right on top of it?
Awesome video!
Can you spot weld the other end to copper with this stop welder?
Im planning on using laser cut copper sheets as the busbars.
TheJ Man i tried but doesnt work with what i got. I solder that part instead
Ah ok thanks
could you share your battery build?
Where can I get a soldering iron like yours?
how do you know if a wire fuse is blown ?, besides the visual inspection of curse, i want to make sure all cells have a good conection after i have finished my pack. thanks !
Saul Gonzalez if the fuse was blown at full charge just meassure the difference at low charge and the cells with blown fuse will have other voltage. either that or touching the fuse wire. the pack will also have lower capacity so you will find the pack that way too
Voltage shouldn't drop. The point of doing this style of Tesla-fuse-attachment is that you're tab welding to in a parallel pack. Total voltage should be very consistent ( and you want to install batteries that are matched and within ~0.05V when fully charged. ) ... what will change is the amp-hour capacity of the module with a failed/fuse blown cell.
@@TheMakersWorkshop the individual cell will have a different voltage if it has blown a wire. Otherwise yes it becomes very difficult to tell which one is bad without visual inspection. Capacity potential is not easily determined.
I know this comment is 2 years old but for anyone else asking; Put your multimeter on the DC voltage setting. Connect one multimeter probe / clip to the - or + bus bar. Then go across and touch the other probe to the other side of the cells. If it reads 0v then you are good (no potential difference). If it reads 4 volts or whatever it means there is potential going through your meter (when it should be going through your fuse wire) which shows there is a connection issue.
The bit I am not understanding about off of this building batteries business - a lot of these cells are rated to 15 - 20 amp output. if you using 1 - 5 amp fuse wire, why are all the fuse wire's not blowing under heavy load ???
The cells are rated at perhaps 1-2A out. Im using laptop cells. But thats not what decides what goes out. The internal resistance does this. Im using 5A fuse wire that blows at up to 7-10A. Im running at most 20A per pack and thats if we average it out to 0.25A per cell. This is not true since the IR differ but it does not differ that much so that 1 cell gets all the load and therefore does not blow the fuse wire.
Hope that explains the reason
The batteries bank are assembled to have a low current drain per battery. Example 100 batteries suppling .5 amps is 50 amps of current. 460 Volts motor - 3-phase : 1.25 amps/hp. So 50 amps = 62 HP. A Tesla 85Kw battery has 7,104 total cells. If the current draw is greater than designed the fuse blows.
is the pack you are welding with that twisted bus bar wire running around it, considered all parallel? If I was using 30Q cells with 15A draw per cell, how thick of fuse wire would I use?
You need fuse wire that wont blow on your normal use but protect over-load. But I guess you going to build a new pack? A new pack i wouldnt fuse on cell level. ANd 15A does not sound like powerwall but more like an EV or something and then you need all current you can and fuse wire introduces more resistance.
@@DIYTechRepairs I see EVERYONE doing the fuse thing for EV's... and Tesla does it also at the cell level...they use 29AWG pure aluminum wire... yes, batteries will be new, EV, will laser cut custom copper buss bars. 18S30P :)
@@Sardonic1981 tessia does because they removed the cid. Not many other. Still depends on application...
why can't you pot weld fuse wire to bus bar?
Cant spot weld to Cooper. Atleast not with the tools i got.
Did you have any problems with the circuit power breaking, using this welder? What breaker do you have? In my house I have 15 amps breaker. Do you think is ok for these machine?
gearstil you can run on 10a too but you need slow blow. On 120v atleast 20a. I run 16a c type breaker
DIY Tech & Repairs I live in Europe and my power voltage is 220V. Thanks!
Would this work for building ebike batteries?
I would not have fuse Wire om a battery on a bike. To much vibration and movement
DIY Tech & Repairs what would you have then ?
Good job! But next time place your Camera focusing what you do. Your hand were in the way blocking the view while you were welding and cutting the excess of wire. That's only my suggestion.
7 to 10 years can cıkabilir all the batteries that I want to use for a long time seviorum that I do. therefore. the house is for use.m.
i wonder if there are chinese suppliers of the fuse wires if you arent in a rush.. i bet its just tinned copper wire at the right diameter so.. anyone?
Its so cheap locally so i wouldnt gamble
One roll last My life nd it cost 10usd
Hello, did you create that bus bar or you bought it? Thanks and great video!
Made My self. Have videos about it :)
@@DIYTechRepairs thanks. Will check that out :)
@@DIYTechRepairs haven't found it yet but tons of great videos! :D
Here you have it: ua-cam.com/video/hB-7nwQPpco/v-deo.html
And thanks! :P
How are the fuses wired? in series or parallel?
They are wired on between each cell and the busbar. On this pack the cells are in parallel
I see some do in series, which way is optimal wiring in case of cell failure? I'm confuse.
Im not sure I understand? A fuse must always be in between one and the other side. And that is series? All my cells are in paralell but the fuse is still in serie with the cell as you can see. Then I also have fuses on every string of packs as well .
I understand now. Thank you for taking your time to reply.
Series to the bus bar or in-line fuses. One per cell.
That's probably not a genuine sunkko but a clone built by vevor with cheaper components.
Yeah could be. I dont expect anything else on Ebay :)