I think 5's just acknowledge that they are different as a fact, but don't see it as the main goal in itself. It's not something they intentionally intended. It may come with the territory when pursuing their interests, etc, but the interests are more the goal than building a unique identity for its own sake. With 4's, their differences can be more intentional.
THANK YOU! I've always rather felt like this, this comment helped me so much! I've been called "quirky" by people, but it's not a priority and I find my differences rather annoying at times. -INFP 5w4
I've always felt different, and it wasn't because I wanted to be different. It's because I am autistic and have ADHD, and I wasn't diagnosed or treated until adulthood. There's a part of me that embraces being different, but I don't want my differences to be perceived as defects. I think I'm a 5w4.
I relate to this, but I'm not autistic and I'm pretty sure I'm a 4w5. I often worry there's an innate part of me that's too flawed to be successful, but I overcompensate for this feeling of inadequacy and defectiveness by introspecting and trying to make myself feel as fulfilled and complete as possible. For awhile I thought I was a 5w4, but I don't think I'm detached enough to be a 5. Unlike my type 5w6 best friend, I tend to react to the world and be an active part of the social environment, where as he detaches and tries to reveal as little of himself as possible. It's like I want my presence to be felt where as he wants to have control over the environment by kind of removing his presence from the environment as much as possible. Also, a big difference is I don't necessarily care about hiding my weirdness, as the type of "weirdness" i'm worried about feels more innate or like a stain on my identity and potential that I try to break free from. Therefore, I probably over-identify with my weirdness to the point of obsession, and I try to overcome my sense of inadequacy and flawed-ness by unlocking my potential, building a sense of success and competence in the world, and being the best person I can be like it's my life mission to over come these deep insecurities about my identity. I feel incapable of detaching from my emotions even when I know I should and tend to be overly emotional in my processing of the world -- I struggle to get out of my feelings, but my strong 5 wing helps me detach from my emotions and think objectively. I have strong need to express myself through art and writing, to be successful in the world despite my weirdness and uniqueness. It's this strange dichotomy in which I'm afraid I'm too weird to be successful, but I also want to be more interesting, distinct, and amazing than others; like the snake biting it's own tail. This might seem like I'm a 3 in many ways because I'm worried I'm too weird to be successful, but I probably identify too much with my weirdness to be a three where as a three would probably repress all their weirdness to be as normal and "successful " as possible. I often times sacrifice commercial success and popularity for authenticity and staying true to my integrity. Maybe my 3 wing just works to keep my weirdness in check so I don't go too far off the deep end and can still stay grounded in the expectations of society and what not?
THANK YOU!!! So, I went through these 5 and here's my thought process. 1) What's more important, Identity or knowledge? Well, I learn about personality to find an identity, so I can't really tell... 2) What do you do in stress? It's hard for me to identify what I do, precisely, because I do a lot of different things, but, I also have tested relationships of people, too. (I need to work on this...) 3) Head or Heart first? I genuinely have no idea. I feel like I use them both the same amount at the exact same time. 4) Let's look further into your wings? I loosely connect to both 6 and 3 but I don't know enough about them to be confident. 5) Do you want to be different? So, I make decisions to try to stick out and express myself, but I'm usually uncomfortable when people point it out. Thanks to this last question and some reflection, I have reaffirmed that I'm a 5w4, so, thank you stabilizing my identity, lol.
Same INFJ 5w4 very heavy 4 wing which I think has to do with Ni Fe Ti cognitive functions and causing the conflict 4w5 or 5w4 I've taken the test three times and the numbers are roughly the same 5- 96%. 4- 91%
@@shaunrogers3798 Very heavy in the 4 wing department here as well. But sure seems as though 5x4 fits me best. I am an older INFJ and while it took time to tease it all out, it does make the most sense. I am pretty comfortable with that.
@@therealjohndoe3862 yes I'm 33 years old and the feeling aspect kept getting in the way seeing how INFJs are very in tune to emotion but at the core I use more introverted thinking than extroverted feeling which helped me distinguish the difference
I NEED to THANK you so much for creating these! As someone who resonates almost completely with both 4 and 5, I couldn't figure out what comes first to me. Your videos ("10 signs you might be 4/5", especially) helped me realize I'm innately a bit more 4, and thus 4w5, even though I aim to be a Data Scientist/Statistician, and recognize myself in pretty much all of the 10 signs for 5s. You've done such a great job with presenting this issue! My advice for those who struggle: Don't count which signs you resonate with more in a simple additive way (8 signs for 4s vs 6 signs for 5s) but how strongly you resonate with them (how important they are to you). I find myself in both 4s and 5s signs, but 4s ones are just a bit more "on-the-nose" and intense than 5s (which are still all true for me, but they're just a bit "secondary" compared to the 4s ones).
@@zidesce7961 Recognize myself in so many "signs", not "types". I only recognize myself in "types" 4 and 5 out of all 9 of them, and was instead talking about how many distinct characteristics (of types 4 and 5 that are presented in this video) I resonate with.
Definitely 5w4! Commenting from a burner account but I was a little conflicted because I'm an INFJ artist/designer and it seems to be a very unlikely pairing, but I relate to 5w4 significantly more.
I completely relate- I identify more with the 5w4 traits, but my MBTI is either an ideal pairing or a very odd one- I'm still not sure whether I am a very emotional INTP or a more logical INFP ':D
Totally INFJ type 5w4, since I was a kid until now at 17- I've always thought I need to be normal. Fit in. Not because I'm ashamed of myself or any insecurities (I rarely get insecure) but I want to function the same average way other people does. I want to exist normally but the circumstances in my life just pushes me to the abnormal. I'm supposed to act more like my age, but I feel like I already experienced what 20+ yr old me would've so now I'm just chillin, watching teens my age do their thing. While I sit and observe... thinking "that's the type of person was 3 yrs ago, similar events happened when I was 14" all while trying to make the present me enjoy my time. Also when giving advices I feel a sense of responsibility that it's their journey, like they have to experience it themselves for them to truly understand whatever that thing they have in mind, so I don't say too much. Just a bit of probabilities and what they should focus on instead of giving away the end result. Like when my friends fight and is too prideful to apologize, I go to each one and help them see the arguements in each other's pov and why or what the conflict may do if they don't own up/emphatize with each other. We could've done a night out next week if only they didn't let the cold war take so long to end, situations like this help us grow on our relationship and characters, but at the cost of time? it's not worth being stuck in a cold war for months when we could've been making more memories, more mistakes, more chance to grow. I usually let such thoughts in me go because not everyone needs to see life the way I do, again, they have to realize these on their own pace. But in order to function normally, I'm always careful on what to say at the person in this moment, in other words- acting like my age. Saying things in a set of order, a vocabulary, that that person's capable of emphatizing with and I wouldn't sound like a know-it-all or be too overbearing in their life. I want to be a healthy influence that will not distract them from being who they are. Life has fcked me up and is continually doing so, I know how it feels to be in the deepest depths of low, and how scary it is to not have anyone pull you up, so I survive while maintaining the usual set of routines, the usual average person my family sees, the usual me and the people around me can just interact with me as usual. It's 9:47am, I blabbered too long and I'm hungry. This is helpful. Thank you :}
That last question was the clincher for me. I have always felt different and like I can never fit in. All I’ve ever wanted was to be is normal and now I know my 4 wing makes that impossible. Also, it helped that, to every question I thought, “ugh, I’m such a 5 🙄” 😂 Thank you for making this video. It has been very helpful!
this was a great video! im still very confused though because people tell me that im a braniac and analytical all the time but truth is they don't know that i can be very emotional too. thats why im very torn between 5w4 and 4w5, because i think i use my head and my heart very equally but people think otherwise, what does that make me?
If you're looking to others to tell you who you are rather than knowing deep down and being frustrated about who you are, then you're probably a 9, not a 4.
1. knowledge about identity, but more existentially, specifically my consciousness 2. withdraw, clingy, BUT there is one significant instance where I became so focused on relationship. 3. Anxiety is the constant, shame is like the eruption 4. 6 is my third highest score, 9 the fourth. I'm very self doubting, but I'm confused because that's been used to describe 4, 6, and 9. I think I'm a 5, but reading about 4 really brings this painful reaction that I keep considering if that's my true type.
This was a hard question for me, but then I looked at how I reacted to the question. I went down an Internet rabbit hole and did a bunch of research. When I found that things I had thought were unique about me were actually shared by many other people, I felt happy, as if this in some way made me more socially acceptable or validated my identity. I then used the Enneagram to attempt to understand my friends, family, and coworkers so that I could more easily navigate social situations, and every time I thought I had figured out someone's type, it released a massive amount of dopamine in my brain. I have only told a very small number of people what I think my own type is, because I want to understand more than I want to be understood. Knowledge is power. I am pretty sure this all adds up to so/sx 5w4.
Thank you for the video! I'm pretty sure I am a 5w4. 1. Identity or Knowledge? Truth. I am a truth-seeker. Knowing the truth is the most important thing to me. I don't care so much about my identity as I do about knowing the truth/finding answers/understanding things. 2. Stress? Depends on how significant I think the stressor is but I def get cranky. I start to complain about how I feel like I am failing in everything or how everything is going wrong. Even if I don't say it out loud I think these things. I usually try to withdraw and distract myself by gaining knowledge on a topic I enjoy or try to find something I can accomplish. I start my to-do list or create a plan for how I will deal with the stressor and get at it. If the stressor is related to problem I am trying to solve, I'll research the heck out of it. 3. Head or Heart? Head because my goal is to understand. 4. Wings - I can relate to goal-setting 3 but I can also relate the problem-solving of the 6. Goal-setting can be a part of the problem-solving process though, 5. Different? No I don't care if I am different or not. I do want to be myself though. I highly value authenticity. I don't care if I'm different or the same. I just want to be myself. I think authenticity is closely related to my desire for truth. Because if I am being authentic and you are being authentic, we are being truthful with one another. I like getting people's true selves because it's a way of experiencing and knowing truth. Whether its a textbook or a person, I like the real deal. :)
According to the tests I am a 5w4 and that matches what you said too. However I feel both shame and anxiety. When not knowing what I should know I feel both those feelings. About being different I can also relate to both. In safe surroundings with my closest people I love to bring out my quirks but for those who doesn't know me I don't stand out too much. And I do prefer knowledge to identity. But just barely 🙂 Anyway thanks for a very clarifying video.
I have answered 3 of the 5 questions with 5, but for the last one I am DEFINITELY a 4, I am an empathetic person with at the same time a very rational mind but I am always striving to show people that I am different and unique
Conflict styles helped me differenciate between these 2 types. 4's are reactive/passionate in conflict and 5's are more logical, trying to solve the problem at hand rationally
This topic was really hard for me, as I am also an INFP, and my instinctual variants are sx/sp. The 5 sx type tends to be very 4-ish, so it makes it harder. What helped for me was looking at and comparing the instinctual variants for each type - so 4 sp, 4 sx, 5 sp, and 5 sx; also, looking at the core values. I related with the general descriptions of the 5 instinctual variants more, and I value being competent over being unique. Thus, I was able to distinguish that I was a 5 at my core, even though it was muddled by my MBTI type and my countertype variant.
i feel im more 5w4, even though i know and feel i am different and try to hide most of it, but im not really ashamed to be discovered that much. im also intj so im definitely the strange one in the room. but i always felt more soft or tactful than other more stoic/serious(?) intj. also i do value both identity and knowledge equally, so that wasn't helping :))))
so you're 5w4 or 4w5? i'm also intj (or isfp maybe) and i still don't understand who am i and i'm agree with the last sentence. I asked if intj 4w5 exists, but they answered that it doesn't so i don't know
INTP here, still cementing my core as my relationship to my emotions and sensitivity stumps me all the time, but this video has been very helpful in clarifying. The last one especially with "do I want to be different?" The answer there is both yes and no. Then I looked back on my life and realised I'd been trying to hide my differentness rather than openly embrace it. My instinctual variants are sx/sp, so I think that can add to the emotional/reactive struggle. I've known I was different but didn't truly acknowledge or care about this until probably in my late teens or early 20s, and it's only been since then that I've overly focused on identity at all. Learning about different typology systems has taught me how much I do care for a solid sense of identity where before I just sort of drifted. Thank you for the video.
Lol, I'm an INTP 5w4 sx/sp type too! I wish you luck on dealing with the feels, because I know how overwhelming it can be sometimes. If you can find somebody that you can share those deep emotions with (a close sibling or significant other) that can help a great deal. However, I know that I'm more comfortable writing it down in poetry so I can isolate my feelings from my thoughts (because thoughts can forcefully ignore emotions due to their irrational nature) and it helps me actually process everything. However, writing down how you feel in any form, even if it's just "I feel sad" on a sheet of paper, can help you accept it, deal with it, and figure out where it came from. I hope you find this useful :)
4s don't long to understand who they are, they KNOW who they are and overidentify with what they feel inside. 4s do not feel like something is missing within then, they feel like there's a missing link between what they know to be true about themselves versus how the world experiences them.
Marlon Brando 4wing5. Stanley Kubrick 5wing4. That sorts it out for me. Kubrick’s art is powerful, but feels more observational. His head is speaking to your heart.
Love it! I love watching all of your videos! It’s such a blessing to understand other types of people better. I will sometimes listen to your videos at work while I’m on break if I see the notification. Puts me in a happy mood!! 😀💗
This is perfect! I was just going through this with my mum last night 🤣 She is a 4w5, but we were never certain, she is just so much like a 5! My father is a 5, so it's all quite confusing around here 😂 This really helped! Thx!
I know that I’m different and try to hide it from most people but I also don’t want to he normal in that I want to be able to think about things from different angles, but I can also be very much controlled by sadness and shame, even if I don’t want to be. I think I’m probably a 5w4 with mental illness...
“I’m think I’m equally 4 and 5. Maybe I’m a 4.5 “ “Oh you think your so different you get your own enneagram number? Your a four” “No. Are you sure? maybe I’m a five.” Conversation with myself. Also just realized why I have such a hard time making decisions. The heart in me wants to make one decision and the logic in me want to make another and they are both so prevalent it take me forever to decide things.
1. identity 2. stress like in 5 3. i guess head 4. i'm not sure, maybe more 6, then 3 5. I would like to be perceived more like everyone else, I think (i'm also thinking i can be a 9)
Humm I’m a INFJ , almost sure E 5sx, but the thing is I know I’m different than the rest but I love it! I don’t wanna be seeing as somebody “normal”.. I’m introvert, love to be alone enjoying my inner world but also like to dress nice and be surrounded of beautiful scenarios and things (that’s is very 4, lol) So is still a little confusing..
Good video! These are unusual types because the 4 and the 5 can be so different in some key ways. I'm a 5w4 and I'm deeply logical, analytical, detached; but yet paradoxically intensely emotional and sensitive. However I prefer to hide that emotional aspect of myself from most people. You sort of touched on it in your video, but I think a great way to tell if you're a 5 and not a 4 is whether or not you find the idea of hiding comforting. 5s often are very private and secretive. We don't want too much attention, and we like to keep some parts of our lives just for ourselves, because it feels like freedom. If you're a 5 you probably have something you do that no one else knows about! I think 4s are less likely to do this and more likely to want people to notice them.
I honestly don't care much of being different from others but I do care that i don't be a conformist and gets easily influenced by others, bcoz i know what I want better than other do. So I want to do what i want to do without getting influenced by society. Tho I do care about my individuality and am not apologetic of it but in certain cases it makes me uncomfortable among groups. That's why I dislike groups.
This helped. I’m an INFJ 4w5. I couldn’t tell which one I was but this made it pretty clear. I asked for help and no one really considered 4 because I’m not very expressive but knowing about sp 4’s it makes sense.
I still feel like both. My heart i like a over friendly dog. 😆 I was never different on purpose. I always felt like an alien. If im stranded here i might as well settle in. But I have grown to realize logic matters so I check my feelings at the door. 😄
I thought I was a 5w4, i did answer the question as you suggested, 1. Identity 2.Go to seven (watch movies, date people) 3. usually use Head, 4. sometimes I wanted to be different sometimes not. lol very ambiguous I am
Great video! I'm am a 5w4 (although my best friend says I'm a 4w5), but my MBTI is solidly a INTJ now. Keep up your excellent take on the Enneagrams. Cheers!
It was tied 2-2 but thankfully it was 5 things and it was the last thing that answered it I definitly embrace my difference then hide it therefore I am a 4w5 as I have always thought yayyy
Very interesting video. IT was great to hear the different things you can ask yourself to figure our which you are. My daughter is a 4w5 there's no doubt about that. And by the way. She sent me this Starbucks drink for you to try. She said it is not overly sweet so I thought I remembered that was what you liked. "Iced Brown Sugar Oatmilk Shaken Espresso"....It is the only thing she has been ordering from there since they introduced it. Have a wonderful Easter!
I thought before watching this that I was more of a 4w5, but now I am even more conflicted. I still don't know which I am! I am an INFJ. I worry about what others think about me. I am not like others, and I don't mind being different, but I struggle with fitting in, feeling misunderstood and not acting or accomplishing things as people are expected in society. I struggle greatly with anxiety in many forms, which is kind of the part that throws me off with typing myself. I am obsessed with acquiring knowledge, and perfectly dissecting my identity (hence adding my enneagram type to my portoflio) Can anyone help?
Hello fellow INFJ! This a tough one, I identify with both as well. I'm rethinking me being a 4w5 because as much as I can go down in the depths of my heart, ultimately my head and wisdom win over my heart's desires. I value wisdom a lot and try to live my life wisely. I also have much more of a wing 6 due to my complex anxieties rather than a 3. I do care what others think of me, but I worry more like 6 rather than put on a mask like a 3. I suffer more analysis paralysis than anything, another 5 trait that a 4 wouldn't struggle with as much. So in conclusion, I believe I am more 5w4, but they're pretty darn close!!
I came in certain I'm 4w5 but my whole life I have felt different and tried to hide that ( although not so much as I get older- I'm more accepting it now) so I'm wondering if I am a 5w4. But I definitely would say that I'm very emotional, but I do search out knowledge obsessively. It's quite confusing!
Thanks for this. Definitely 5w4. I definitely try to hide our different I am eben though I don't think I'm that successful at it. I definitely have some elements of that wing 6.
Do you think it is generally more challenging to be a Type 4 as a man compared to a woman? I tend to think it is; I think there are less men who get me, compared to women.
What do you think about the idea that you should type yourself based on the personality description that you find most distasteful or embarrassing? In that case, it would be a four because I hate the idea of wallowing in feelings and being super soft, fragile, and impractical 😅.
I might be wrong but I think I'm a 4w5, but I don't feel the core motivation to be different or special. I mean everyone is unique anyway, that's a fact (and I'd prefer to not stand out in socials situations cause it's stressful). Rather, I feel the need to express and be myself, to be understood and complete. I value honesty, I'm sensitive, I see beauty in a lot of things and I identify to the 4's reactions in stress. I still love intellectual, philosophical subjects/debates and I'm quite of a rationnel person who uses her brain to understand and sort out emotions, feelings and problems. I don't know if being an Entp with adhd has a impact on my enneagram though.
Great video Hillary! I particularly liked the last bit about being knowledgeable and being different. From my own experience as a 1w2, I've noticed our core desire can at times disguise itself. For example, being different used to be a lot more important to me when I made videos. At that time, I was of the opinion that being different was *right* which probably made me come off more like a 4 back then. I imagine this same thing occurs for every type where a 4 might go "I need to be right to be different." I think the best way around all this is to observe your thoughts in your entire life and you'll eventually see what's really driving your actions.
Ah yes, Mirror Matt. Another me from another dimension. He is clean-shaven, skinner, and has bigger... shoes. A fine, upstanding citizen who looks like me in every way, but thinks differently. _puts on Shatner wig as Star Trek battle theme plays; adjusts girdle_ "Terror must be maintained or the Empire is doomed." *_Judo chop_* Honestly, it isn't that hard for me because I can't even imagine being a 4w5 in my state. I am way too much of a problem solver and need to have something to fix in order to make it work for me. Still, it would be interesting to say the least to see how life would be if I were a different me. An interesting thought for today. Thank you!
He's back!!! You comments make me only want to make type 4 and 5 videos! LOL! Thanks for another riveting comment! I always leave wanting to read more!
@@enneagramandcoaching I am a weird anomaly, I can tell you that much. Not every 5w4 has a sense of humor. _mule kicks box behind him_ Shut up, Seven. Look at me, look at me! I am the captain now! I was thinking about this today as I consider April 1st my new year. I can certainly see where the pull is on my unhealthy seven side by trying to have fun and make light out of situations, but then letting that go too far and getting into the scattered spiral that looks like ADHD, but can be actually just symptoms of depression and the fear of doing things. As a 5w4, it might come to surprise that I am a hermit. I know, I know. Crazy. a 5 wanting to be alone? Insanity! Still, it does challenge my normalcy bias to help me see what is normal for me and what is abnormal for everyone else. All of that stretching and growing is interesting. Well, except for Seven and Two. They have their own box they can share together. What. you think I let them have their own boxes? Oh no, that's not acceptable. They should suffer together!
INFJ 5w4 very heavy 4 wing which I believe is caused by the extroverted feeling in my cognitive function and this is what's causing the conflict between 4w5 or 5w4. I mean I've taken a test 3 times already and it usually comes out with numbers around 5- 96%. 4-91%
Hi Hillary! Great video and happy Easter! I honestly went through this constantly contemplation for a while. The question you asked about being different, I want to be different but I am selective about where and who I am different with. It all depends on environment for me. So yes, I want to be different but it’s all based on context and environment and where I feel it is safe to be different. In terms of the 5/4 battle, I think I amm a 5w4 since I tend to use my head and am less emotional but on my own, I tend to express myself more. For me I am one to pursue knowledge that helps form a sense of identity.
Thank you. I still am not clear. I feel I'm right in the middle. I tested as 5w4. I identify with the 4 up until it comes to wanting to be different and flaunt it. I don't try to hide it and know I have some awkward differences, but I probably do hide. Some of the descriptions sound as if one consciously behaves in these ways, but I am not so conscious of wanting to be anything. I also think I have changed with age. I think I might have been more a 4 when I was a child, but disapproval caused me to tamp a lot of that feeling different and being proud of it down. I have always been quite analytical and methodical and attracted to puzzle solving, but I am very emotional and empathetic. When I see someone cry, I begin to cry. As far as stress goes, I identify with both your descriptions equally. In the MBTI, I test as an INFJ. I think the thinking and feeling cognitive functions are pretty balanced for me. My Se is a big problem, but I am able to get out in the world and function, keep washed and groomed (LOL) and keep most of my physical environment in acceptable if imperfect order. SORRY! So, I liked your presentation, but I don't think I've come away knowing where I fit.
This is almost verbatim to what I was going to comment! I’m more confused now. I think I’m either depending on my mood that moment 🤣 I tend towards both directions equally just depends on the day (or moment). Especially the flaunting or hiding. I love glitz and wildness in apparel and have performed on stage hundreds of times in my life and love it (but maybe bc the world falls away while up there) and also some days can’t bring myself to even walk out my front door because a neighbor may see me 🤷🏼♀️
i feel like when people talk about fours they generally talk about a more immature less healthy four. healthy fours dont feel like they need to flaunt that they are different. ive tested 4w5 multiple times over the years and i dont feel like im missing something. you spend time alone contemplating not because you feel like u are missing something but because u are trying to figure out what ur authentic morals are, who you really are. that’s where the identity comes in. and when u spend time to do that and follow ur own path people might see you as flaunting that you are different even if u genuinely do not care about what others think.
I'm still.... lost.? I do become VERY stingy when I'm stressed, and greedy if you will like I have to hold on to things. But I'm also clingy when I'm upset, I want to be with my loved one 24/7 even when they don't want to be with me XD. But I also prefer the "identity over knowledge' argument. But knowing identity is knowledge which is why I am so invested in psychology, therapy, and mental health. But I'm torn between wanting to embrace my "uniqueness" and being ashamed of it (hiding it). Anyways, I think I'm a 4w5 though. Cuz I cringe when people go over the 4 type, which is a sign.
Infj in w heavy nihilistic tendencies. Feels like we're all the same at our core, perhaps just in different ways. Melancholic yet highly restrained, at times hypercritical, over-intellectualizing & withdrawn (not sure cos of 5w4 or 4w5 in ni-ti loop).
This was great, but it didn't really help. ALL of it applies...I think for me...the deciding factor for 4 was ENVY. But I do care a lot what others think (3) And I do notice a lot of 6 scanning for danger. We all have it all and I suppose what's more important than assigning a number is knowing and being aware of a reactive response in any segment. Thank you!
INFJ, 5w4 here with 5 - 98% and 4 - 95%, I feel like I tend to fluctuate between the two depending on mood stress and environment, e.g. 5w4 when working and 4w5 when at home. Is it possible to move between these wings depending on our situation/environment?
I remember having this discussion with you during my typing session since I have such strong 4 and 5 tendencies. Sometimes I still wonder if I am really a 4 since I don't act like the typical 4. But with this video having knowledge and information is supposed to help 5s feel better about things when for me, I'm on information overload researching and feeling more lost and confused. This video did make me wonder about my triype though. I know we said I might be a 469 but what if I'm a 451 or a 459 or even a 461? I read something a while ago where it says that we have wings within the types of our triype and my mind was blown. People are really complicated and complex full of so many layers! And the Enneagram is so deep in trying to explain it all! My sister said I should tell you about these fixations and obsessive thoughts since you are my coach, but I felt bad doing so since I didn't want you to think I doubted you. And lately I've been feeling so unmotivated and scattered. It's like a complete 180 from how I first started school. I used to be so anxious and on top of everything that I got it all done despite my crippling anxiety. But now I feel nothing I'm just like, "Oh, I should probably do that... Why am I not feeling motivated to do this? Let's try to do it.... (not that long passes) I guess I'm not doing this... oh well." It's very odd and unsettling. And I don't know why it's happening. I guess this is what depression looks like after the anxiety has died down. I know you've been busy with things and dealing with the family loss, so I didn't want to bother you or seem insensitive or selfish either. Anyway speaking of schoolwork... I should get back to that now. Miss you!
Hi Christina! That's ok that you don't act like the typical 4. With countertypes and wings and levels of health it does get confusing at times. You might be right about your tritype. Only you truly know the order. Keep digging and asking yourself....why do you do what you do? What do you use first. What do you use second and so forth. If your needing another session I do have one session options on my website. I'm sorry about how school is going and your not feeling motivated. You totally are not insensitive or selfish! I always love hearing from you! ❤
@@enneagramandcoaching Hi Hillary! Thank you for your reply! I signed up to take Michael Shahan’s enneagram coaching course in May, so it will be interesting to see what I learn there. I wonder if typing ourselves will be part of it? But if I’m still uncertain after all that I might take you up on your offer and purchase another session. I know I have the tendency to overthink things and over analyze them lol. So I’m probably making this more complicated then it needs to be.
💻Need to book a typing session? enneagramandcoaching.com/get-started/p/discoveryourtype 👋Say Hello on Instagram! instagram.com/enneagramandcoaching/ ✨Subscribe for more videos every week! ua-cam.com/users/hillarymccaskey
Great take on 4w5 or 5w4! I'm still confused...haha just kidding. The last question if we want people to know we are different, I've never thought about that but yes I do do that. Even though there are times I want to say some in a group but I know if I say it, it will be taken as "way out there" or too deep for the conversation. Yet when I feel convicted I speak up and I always stand out, when it's good I make people laugh and when I go too dark, I see others cringe. Yeah so I guess I lean more to 4w5. Love your channel!
Great video as usual from your kind and huge wisdom Hillary! I am definitively T4 wing 3 but also feel winged 5 . It is possible, isn't it? And 'am still wandering how could I use these knowledge to make better deeper relationships.... What should I know suddenly at first time when meet someone new (date, job, etc....) or old friends as well and go on the easy better deeper way together if we can? Always looking researching discovering the others when I see them and trying to find their ways and the general corporate way as well,.
My 2nd son identifies as a 4, and when he was young he was very emotional and would get so angry with his siblings. When he went off to college he used his 5 wing to temper his emotions to the point I can hardly see them from the outside now. He seems a lot like a 5 these days, so I had to watch this video to confirm he is actually a 4. :)
I still don’t know! I feel like I relate so heavily with different parts of both of them
Me too!
Same problem
Me too T-T
Yeppp 🥲
That's the problem with these tests nothing is ever concrete!
I think 5's just acknowledge that they are different as a fact, but don't see it as the main goal in itself. It's not something they intentionally intended. It may come with the territory when pursuing their interests, etc, but the interests are more the goal than building a unique identity for its own sake. With 4's, their differences can be more intentional.
THANK YOU! I've always rather felt like this, this comment helped me so much! I've been called "quirky" by people, but it's not a priority and I find my differences rather annoying at times.
-INFP 5w4
I've always felt different, and it wasn't because I wanted to be different. It's because I am autistic and have ADHD, and I wasn't diagnosed or treated until adulthood. There's a part of me that embraces being different, but I don't want my differences to be perceived as defects. I think I'm a 5w4.
I'm just like you but the skeptical part makes me unsure of who I am 5w4 or 4w5
I relate to this, but I'm not autistic and I'm pretty sure I'm a 4w5. I often worry there's an innate part of me that's too flawed to be successful, but I overcompensate for this feeling of inadequacy and defectiveness by introspecting and trying to make myself feel as fulfilled and complete as possible.
For awhile I thought I was a 5w4, but I don't think I'm detached enough to be a 5. Unlike my type 5w6 best friend, I tend to react to the world and be an active part of the social environment, where as he detaches and tries to reveal as little of himself as possible. It's like I want my presence to be felt where as he wants to have control over the environment by kind of removing his presence from the environment as much as possible.
Also, a big difference is I don't necessarily care about hiding my weirdness, as the type of "weirdness" i'm worried about feels more innate or like a stain on my identity and potential that I try to break free from. Therefore, I probably over-identify with my weirdness to the point of obsession, and I try to overcome my sense of inadequacy and flawed-ness by unlocking my potential, building a sense of success and competence in the world, and being the best person I can be like it's my life mission to over come these deep insecurities about my identity.
I feel incapable of detaching from my emotions even when I know I should and tend to be overly emotional in my processing of the world -- I struggle to get out of my feelings, but my strong 5 wing helps me detach from my emotions and think objectively.
I have strong need to express myself through art and writing, to be successful in the world despite my weirdness and uniqueness. It's this strange dichotomy in which I'm afraid I'm too weird to be successful, but I also want to be more interesting, distinct, and amazing than others; like the snake biting it's own tail.
This might seem like I'm a 3 in many ways because I'm worried I'm too weird to be successful, but I probably identify too much with my weirdness to be a three where as a three would probably repress all their weirdness to be as normal and "successful " as possible. I often times sacrifice commercial success and popularity for authenticity and staying true to my integrity. Maybe my 3 wing just works to keep my weirdness in check so I don't go too far off the deep end and can still stay grounded in the expectations of society and what not?
5w4: “Knowledge shaped my identity.” 🎤
THANK YOU!!! So, I went through these 5 and here's my thought process.
1) What's more important, Identity or knowledge? Well, I learn about personality to find an identity, so I can't really tell...
2) What do you do in stress? It's hard for me to identify what I do, precisely, because I do a lot of different things, but, I also have tested relationships of people, too. (I need to work on this...)
3) Head or Heart first? I genuinely have no idea. I feel like I use them both the same amount at the exact same time.
4) Let's look further into your wings? I loosely connect to both 6 and 3 but I don't know enough about them to be confident.
5) Do you want to be different? So, I make decisions to try to stick out and express myself, but I'm usually uncomfortable when people point it out.
Thanks to this last question and some reflection, I have reaffirmed that I'm a 5w4, so, thank you stabilizing my identity, lol.
This is amazing1 Thank you for sharing!
over and over again, i'm spot on in the middle.
Good stuff! INFJ 5w4, here. Thanks, and keep up the good work.
Thank you!!!! ❤️
Same.
Same INFJ 5w4 very heavy 4 wing which I think has to do with Ni Fe Ti cognitive functions and causing the conflict 4w5 or 5w4 I've taken the test three times and the numbers are roughly the same 5- 96%. 4- 91%
@@shaunrogers3798 Very heavy in the 4 wing department here as well. But sure seems as though 5x4 fits me best. I am an older INFJ and while it took time to tease it all out, it does make the most sense. I am pretty comfortable with that.
@@therealjohndoe3862 yes I'm 33 years old and the feeling aspect kept getting in the way seeing how INFJs are very in tune to emotion but at the core I use more introverted thinking than extroverted feeling which helped me distinguish the difference
The third question is kind of tricky. I usually use my head, but I also often have strong emotional reactions to certain issues.
I NEED to THANK you so much for creating these! As someone who resonates almost completely with both 4 and 5, I couldn't figure out what comes first to me. Your videos ("10 signs you might be 4/5", especially) helped me realize I'm innately a bit more 4, and thus 4w5, even though I aim to be a Data Scientist/Statistician, and recognize myself in pretty much all of the 10 signs for 5s. You've done such a great job with presenting this issue!
My advice for those who struggle: Don't count which signs you resonate with more in a simple additive way (8 signs for 4s vs 6 signs for 5s) but how strongly you resonate with them (how important they are to you). I find myself in both 4s and 5s signs, but 4s ones are just a bit more "on-the-nose" and intense than 5s (which are still all true for me, but they're just a bit "secondary" compared to the 4s ones).
Sounds like you might be a 9 if you recognize yourself in so many types.
@@zidesce7961 Recognize myself in so many "signs", not "types". I only recognize myself in "types" 4 and 5 out of all 9 of them, and was instead talking about how many distinct characteristics (of types 4 and 5 that are presented in this video) I resonate with.
thanks so much, this is exactly the same for me!
Definitely 5w4! Commenting from a burner account but I was a little conflicted because I'm an INFJ artist/designer and it seems to be a very unlikely pairing, but I relate to 5w4 significantly more.
same here!
I completely relate- I identify more with the 5w4 traits, but my MBTI is either an ideal pairing or a very odd one- I'm still not sure whether I am a very emotional INTP or a more logical INFP ':D
I’m an 5w4 INFJ too!
Totally INFJ type 5w4, since I was a kid until now at 17- I've always thought I need to be normal. Fit in. Not because I'm ashamed of myself or any insecurities (I rarely get insecure) but I want to function the same average way other people does. I want to exist normally but the circumstances in my life just pushes me to the abnormal. I'm supposed to act more like my age, but I feel like I already experienced what 20+ yr old me would've so now I'm just chillin, watching teens my age do their thing. While I sit and observe... thinking "that's the type of person was 3 yrs ago, similar events happened when I was 14" all while trying to make the present me enjoy my time.
Also when giving advices I feel a sense of responsibility that it's their journey, like they have to experience it themselves for them to truly understand whatever that thing they have in mind, so I don't say too much. Just a bit of probabilities and what they should focus on instead of giving away the end result. Like when my friends fight and is too prideful to apologize, I go to each one and help them see the arguements in each other's pov and why or what the conflict may do if they don't own up/emphatize with each other. We could've done a night out next week if only they didn't let the cold war take so long to end, situations like this help us grow on our relationship and characters, but at the cost of time? it's not worth being stuck in a cold war for months when we could've been making more memories, more mistakes, more chance to grow.
I usually let such thoughts in me go because not everyone needs to see life the way I do, again, they have to realize these on their own pace. But in order to function normally, I'm always careful on what to say at the person in this moment, in other words- acting like my age. Saying things in a set of order, a vocabulary, that that person's capable of emphatizing with and I wouldn't sound like a know-it-all or be too overbearing in their life. I want to be a healthy influence that will not distract them from being who they are.
Life has fcked me up and is continually doing so, I know how it feels to be in the deepest depths of low, and how scary it is to not have anyone pull you up, so I survive while maintaining the usual set of routines, the usual average person my family sees, the usual me and the people around me can just interact with me as usual.
It's 9:47am, I blabbered too long and I'm hungry. This is helpful. Thank you :}
That last question was the clincher for me. I have always felt different and like I can never fit in. All I’ve ever wanted was to be is normal and now I know my 4 wing makes that impossible. Also, it helped that, to every question I thought, “ugh, I’m such a 5 🙄” 😂 Thank you for making this video. It has been very helpful!
You are so welcome!
so are you 4w5 or 5w4? I didn't quite understand this question, if I also feel different then I am 4?
@@sullxwi they are 5 annoyed by their wing
If all you've ever wanted to be was normal, then you're probably a 9 not a 4 or a 5.
this was a great video! im still very confused though because people tell me that im a braniac and analytical all the time but truth is they don't know that i can be very emotional too. thats why im very torn between 5w4 and 4w5, because i think i use my head and my heart very equally but people think otherwise, what does that make me?
If you're looking to others to tell you who you are rather than knowing deep down and being frustrated about who you are, then you're probably a 9, not a 4.
1. knowledge about identity, but more existentially, specifically my consciousness
2. withdraw, clingy, BUT there is one significant instance where I became so focused on relationship.
3. Anxiety is the constant, shame is like the eruption
4. 6 is my third highest score, 9 the fourth. I'm very self doubting, but I'm confused because that's been used to describe 4, 6, and 9.
I think I'm a 5, but reading about 4 really brings this painful reaction that I keep considering if that's my true type.
This was a hard question for me, but then I looked at how I reacted to the question. I went down an Internet rabbit hole and did a bunch of research. When I found that things I had thought were unique about me were actually shared by many other people, I felt happy, as if this in some way made me more socially acceptable or validated my identity. I then used the Enneagram to attempt to understand my friends, family, and coworkers so that I could more easily navigate social situations, and every time I thought I had figured out someone's type, it released a massive amount of dopamine in my brain. I have only told a very small number of people what I think my own type is, because I want to understand more than I want to be understood. Knowledge is power.
I am pretty sure this all adds up to so/sx 5w4.
So helpful looking at the 3 and 6. I’m definitely more 5w4!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for the video! I'm pretty sure I am a 5w4.
1. Identity or Knowledge? Truth. I am a truth-seeker. Knowing the truth is the most important thing to me. I don't care so much about my identity as I do about knowing the truth/finding answers/understanding things.
2. Stress? Depends on how significant I think the stressor is but I def get cranky. I start to complain about how I feel like I am failing in everything or how everything is going wrong. Even if I don't say it out loud I think these things. I usually try to withdraw and distract myself by gaining knowledge on a topic I enjoy or try to find something I can accomplish. I start my to-do list or create a plan for how I will deal with the stressor and get at it. If the stressor is related to problem I am trying to solve, I'll research the heck out of it.
3. Head or Heart? Head because my goal is to understand.
4. Wings - I can relate to goal-setting 3 but I can also relate the problem-solving of the 6. Goal-setting can be a part of the problem-solving process though,
5. Different? No I don't care if I am different or not. I do want to be myself though. I highly value authenticity. I don't care if I'm different or the same. I just want to be myself. I think authenticity is closely related to my desire for truth. Because if I am being authentic and you are being authentic, we are being truthful with one another. I like getting people's true selves because it's a way of experiencing and knowing truth. Whether its a textbook or a person, I like the real deal. :)
According to the tests I am a 5w4 and that matches what you said too. However I feel both shame and anxiety. When not knowing what I should know I feel both those feelings. About being different I can also relate to both. In safe surroundings with my closest people I love to bring out my quirks but for those who doesn't know me I don't stand out too much. And I do prefer knowledge to identity. But just barely 🙂 Anyway thanks for a very clarifying video.
Im a 4w5 and i know im different and i definitely feel it
❤❤❤
I have answered 3 of the 5 questions with 5, but for the last one I am DEFINITELY a 4, I am an empathetic person with at the same time a very rational mind but I am always striving to show people that I am different and unique
Conflict styles helped me differenciate between these 2 types. 4's are reactive/passionate in conflict and 5's are more logical, trying to solve the problem at hand rationally
This topic was really hard for me, as I am also an INFP, and my instinctual variants are sx/sp. The 5 sx type tends to be very 4-ish, so it makes it harder. What helped for me was looking at and comparing the instinctual variants for each type - so 4 sp, 4 sx, 5 sp, and 5 sx; also, looking at the core values. I related with the general descriptions of the 5 instinctual variants more, and I value being competent over being unique. Thus, I was able to distinguish that I was a 5 at my core, even though it was muddled by my MBTI type and my countertype variant.
i feel im more 5w4, even though i know and feel i am different and try to hide most of it, but im not really ashamed to be discovered that much. im also intj so im definitely the strange one in the room. but i always felt more soft or tactful than other more stoic/serious(?) intj. also i do value both identity and knowledge equally, so that wasn't helping :))))
so you're 5w4 or 4w5? i'm also intj (or isfp maybe) and i still don't understand who am i and i'm agree with the last sentence. I asked if intj 4w5 exists, but they answered that it doesn't so i don't know
INTP here, still cementing my core as my relationship to my emotions and sensitivity stumps me all the time, but this video has been very helpful in clarifying. The last one especially with "do I want to be different?" The answer there is both yes and no. Then I looked back on my life and realised I'd been trying to hide my differentness rather than openly embrace it. My instinctual variants are sx/sp, so I think that can add to the emotional/reactive struggle. I've known I was different but didn't truly acknowledge or care about this until probably in my late teens or early 20s, and it's only been since then that I've overly focused on identity at all. Learning about different typology systems has taught me how much I do care for a solid sense of identity where before I just sort of drifted. Thank you for the video.
Lol, I'm an INTP 5w4 sx/sp type too! I wish you luck on dealing with the feels, because I know how overwhelming it can be sometimes. If you can find somebody that you can share those deep emotions with (a close sibling or significant other) that can help a great deal. However, I know that I'm more comfortable writing it down in poetry so I can isolate my feelings from my thoughts (because thoughts can forcefully ignore emotions due to their irrational nature) and it helps me actually process everything. However, writing down how you feel in any form, even if it's just "I feel sad" on a sheet of paper, can help you accept it, deal with it, and figure out where it came from. I hope you find this useful :)
@@willywonka6948 ty, I probably should journal or write things down more than I do. Mostly, it's just ongoing internal rumination lol
It's confirmed!! I'm 4w5. I wanna be different and I want the world to know about it. 🙌
I am struggling with this. Still can't tell and I think I live like a 9. 🤦🏻♀️
I guess am a 5w4, and I usually hide my strengths lather than embracing them.
I have wondered about this and wracked my brain over and over. Now I think I'm a 9w1. Isn't this fun!? 🤦🏻♀️
I see I wrote this before a month ago, lol!
4s don't long to understand who they are, they KNOW who they are and overidentify with what they feel inside.
4s do not feel like something is missing within then, they feel like there's a missing link between what they know to be true about themselves versus how the world experiences them.
I am a 4 and I love being unique! It helps me self esteem. Sniff sniff
Really appreciate your candid, friendly, and organized covo style. Thank you and wishing you many blessings 🙏🏻!
Marlon Brando 4wing5. Stanley Kubrick 5wing4. That sorts it out for me. Kubrick’s art is powerful, but feels more observational. His head is speaking to your heart.
Love it! I love watching all of your videos! It’s such a blessing to understand other types of people better. I will sometimes listen to your videos at work while I’m on break if I see the notification. Puts me in a happy mood!! 😀💗
Thank you Nellie!!! You made my day!!! ❤
@@enneagramandcoaching 💗
This is perfect! I was just going through this with my mum last night 🤣 She is a 4w5, but we were never certain, she is just so much like a 5! My father is a 5, so it's all quite confusing around here 😂 This really helped! Thx!
Amazing! I am so glad it helped!
I know that I’m different and try to hide it from most people but I also don’t want to he normal in that I want to be able to think about things from different angles, but I can also be very much controlled by sadness and shame, even if I don’t want to be. I think I’m probably a 5w4 with mental illness...
thanks for this video!! i definitely gained more clarity i think i can confidently say i'm a 5w4!
Yay! You’re so welcome!
INTP 5w4 here, thanks so much!🙂
Awesome!!! You are welcome!
“I’m think I’m equally 4 and 5. Maybe I’m a 4.5 “
“Oh you think your so different you get your own enneagram number? Your a four”
“No. Are you sure? maybe I’m a five.”
Conversation with myself.
Also just realized why I have such a hard time making decisions. The heart in me wants to make one decision and the logic in me want to make another and they are both so prevalent it take me forever to decide things.
I feel you. Sometimes I can confused if my heart is doing all the talking or my mind is. Deciding things is not my forte either, but its alright.
1. identity
2. stress like in 5
3. i guess head
4. i'm not sure, maybe more 6, then 3
5. I would like to be perceived more like everyone else, I think
(i'm also thinking i can be a 9)
Humm I’m a INFJ , almost sure E 5sx, but the thing is I know I’m different than the rest but I love it! I don’t wanna be seeing as somebody “normal”.. I’m introvert, love to be alone enjoying my inner world but also like to dress nice and be surrounded of beautiful scenarios and things (that’s is very 4, lol) So is still a little confusing..
damn i was so confused but some of the 5 description it was so accurate i did not see that coming
That last bit I love expressing my difference, especially in how I dress. But everything else I feel like I use both
Yes, lots of 4s and 5s feel this way sometimes. Are you a 4 or 5?
@@enneagramandcoaching I've gotten 5 on tests but I don't know for sure, the highest percentages I've gotten is 4, 5,6, 9
@@invadertifxiii same four highest. got 5, 4, 6, then 9
This was so helpful.. When I’m stressed the last thing I think about is romance and relationships lol
Yay! Glad it was helpful!
I have same this so am i 4w5 or 5w4?
I am so very thankful for you !!
All your videos have been helping me in many ways … 💖💖💖💖💖💖
I'm so glad!
Good video! These are unusual types because the 4 and the 5 can be so different in some key ways. I'm a 5w4 and I'm deeply logical, analytical, detached; but yet paradoxically intensely emotional and sensitive. However I prefer to hide that emotional aspect of myself from most people. You sort of touched on it in your video, but I think a great way to tell if you're a 5 and not a 4 is whether or not you find the idea of hiding comforting. 5s often are very private and secretive. We don't want too much attention, and we like to keep some parts of our lives just for ourselves, because it feels like freedom. If you're a 5 you probably have something you do that no one else knows about! I think 4s are less likely to do this and more likely to want people to notice them.
Excellent.
I am definitely 5w4.
But I think my Asperger's
is readily apparent
to other people,
so I actually am very
different.
I embrace it.
I honestly don't care much of being different from others but I do care that i don't be a conformist and gets easily influenced by others, bcoz i know what I want better than other do. So I want to do what i want to do without getting influenced by society. Tho I do care about my individuality and am not apologetic of it but in certain cases it makes me uncomfortable among groups. That's why I dislike groups.
This helped. I’m an INFJ 4w5.
I couldn’t tell which one I was but this made it pretty clear. I asked for help and no one really considered 4 because I’m not very expressive but knowing about sp 4’s it makes sense.
I’m so glad it helped!
I am definitely 4w5
Awesome video , saddly since im an INTP i fit more with 5w4 but im kinda like 4w5 so i cant tell
I still feel like both. My heart i like a over friendly dog. 😆 I was never different on purpose. I always felt like an alien. If im stranded here i might as well settle in. But I have grown to realize logic matters so I check my feelings at the door. 😄
Really helpful! I'm definitely a 5 w 4.
Sweet! ❤️
Definitely a 5 wing with a 4. Intel is before so I can decide with any certainly
I thought I was a 5w4, i did answer the question as you suggested, 1. Identity 2.Go to seven (watch movies, date people) 3. usually use Head, 4. sometimes I wanted to be different sometimes not. lol very ambiguous I am
4 - Identity, significance
5 - Knowledge, answers, ideas, competence
Great video! I'm am a 5w4 (although my best friend says I'm a 4w5), but my MBTI is solidly a INTJ now. Keep up your excellent take on the Enneagrams. Cheers!
Awesome! Thank you!
I relate heavily with 5/8/9
It was tied 2-2 but thankfully it was 5 things and it was the last thing that answered it I definitly embrace my difference then hide it therefore I am a 4w5 as I have always thought yayyy
Very interesting video. IT was great to hear the different things you can ask yourself to figure our which you are. My daughter is a 4w5 there's no doubt about that. And by the way. She sent me this Starbucks drink for you to try. She said it is not overly sweet so I thought I remembered that was what you liked. "Iced Brown Sugar Oatmilk Shaken Espresso"....It is the only thing she has been ordering from there since they introduced it. Have a wonderful Easter!
Glad you enjoyed it! A new coffee drink! Sweet! I am totally going to try it! Tell your daughter I said thank you!
I thought before watching this that I was more of a 4w5, but now I am even more conflicted. I still don't know which I am!
I am an INFJ.
I worry about what others think about me. I am not like others, and I don't mind being different, but I struggle with fitting in, feeling misunderstood and not acting or accomplishing things as people are expected in society.
I struggle greatly with anxiety in many forms, which is kind of the part that throws me off with typing myself.
I am obsessed with acquiring knowledge, and perfectly dissecting my identity (hence adding my enneagram type to my portoflio)
Can anyone help?
Hello fellow INFJ! This a tough one, I identify with both as well. I'm rethinking me being a 4w5 because as much as I can go down in the depths of my heart, ultimately my head and wisdom win over my heart's desires. I value wisdom a lot and try to live my life wisely. I also have much more of a wing 6 due to my complex anxieties rather than a 3. I do care what others think of me, but I worry more like 6 rather than put on a mask like a 3. I suffer more analysis paralysis than anything, another 5 trait that a 4 wouldn't struggle with as much. So in conclusion, I believe I am more 5w4, but they're pretty darn close!!
I came in certain I'm 4w5 but my whole life I have felt different and tried to hide that ( although not so much as I get older- I'm more accepting it now) so I'm wondering if I am a 5w4. But I definitely would say that I'm very emotional, but I do search out knowledge obsessively. It's quite confusing!
You just described me 😅
Thanks for this. Definitely 5w4. I definitely try to hide our different I am eben though I don't think I'm that successful at it. I definitely have some elements of that wing 6.
You are welcome! Thanks for sharing!
@@enneagramandcoaching I am also all about the knowledge first. So, it rings true. I am INTP. And it seems 5w4 is the common fit.
Do you think it is generally more challenging to be a Type 4 as a man compared to a woman? I tend to think it is; I think there are less men who get me, compared to women.
Thanks! Very useful.
wow... i was almost sure i was 4w5 but this got me rethinking it
What do you think about the idea that you should type yourself based on the personality description that you find most distasteful or embarrassing? In that case, it would be a four because I hate the idea of wallowing in feelings and being super soft, fragile, and impractical 😅.
This is so confusing to me that now I'm not sure about beyin 4w5 or 5w4 because I relate to both type 3 and 6 the same as well!
I really appreciate this video. You were very concise and articulate, and definitely informative.
I might be wrong but I think I'm a 4w5, but I don't feel the core motivation to be different or special. I mean everyone is unique anyway, that's a fact (and I'd prefer to not stand out in socials situations cause it's stressful). Rather, I feel the need to express and be myself, to be understood and complete. I value honesty, I'm sensitive, I see beauty in a lot of things and I identify to the 4's reactions in stress.
I still love intellectual, philosophical subjects/debates and I'm quite of a rationnel person who uses her brain to understand and sort out emotions, feelings and problems. I don't know if being an Entp with adhd has a impact on my enneagram though.
Very informative, thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
I have both equal traits of 5w4 and 4w5, and I still don't know but I guess I'll stick to 4w5 until I find out.
Great video Hillary! I particularly liked the last bit about being knowledgeable and being different. From my own experience as a 1w2, I've noticed our core desire can at times disguise itself. For example, being different used to be a lot more important to me when I made videos. At that time, I was of the opinion that being different was *right* which probably made me come off more like a 4 back then. I imagine this same thing occurs for every type where a 4 might go "I need to be right to be different." I think the best way around all this is to observe your thoughts in your entire life and you'll eventually see what's really driving your actions.
Hi Bradford!!! I was so happy to see a comment from you :) Thank you for sharing your experience! Great wisdom!
@@enneagramandcoaching I’m so glad you liked my comment!! :D I’ll be sure to post any of my wisdom to your videos when it’s relevant.
Thank you! This was very clear.
Very helpful to decide. Thanks.
Ah yes, Mirror Matt. Another me from another dimension. He is clean-shaven, skinner, and has bigger... shoes. A fine, upstanding citizen who looks like me in every way, but thinks differently.
_puts on Shatner wig as Star Trek battle theme plays; adjusts girdle_
"Terror must be maintained or the Empire is doomed."
*_Judo chop_*
Honestly, it isn't that hard for me because I can't even imagine being a 4w5 in my state. I am way too much of a problem solver and need to have something to fix in order to make it work for me. Still, it would be interesting to say the least to see how life would be if I were a different me. An interesting thought for today. Thank you!
He's back!!! You comments make me only want to make type 4 and 5 videos! LOL! Thanks for another riveting comment! I always leave wanting to read more!
@@enneagramandcoaching I am a weird anomaly, I can tell you that much. Not every 5w4 has a sense of humor.
_mule kicks box behind him_
Shut up, Seven. Look at me, look at me! I am the captain now!
I was thinking about this today as I consider April 1st my new year. I can certainly see where the pull is on my unhealthy seven side by trying to have fun and make light out of situations, but then letting that go too far and getting into the scattered spiral that looks like ADHD, but can be actually just symptoms of depression and the fear of doing things. As a 5w4, it might come to surprise that I am a hermit.
I know, I know. Crazy. a 5 wanting to be alone? Insanity!
Still, it does challenge my normalcy bias to help me see what is normal for me and what is abnormal for everyone else. All of that stretching and growing is interesting.
Well, except for Seven and Two. They have their own box they can share together.
What. you think I let them have their own boxes? Oh no, that's not acceptable. They should suffer together!
INFJ 5w4 very heavy 4 wing which I believe is caused by the extroverted feeling in my cognitive function and this is what's causing the conflict between 4w5 or 5w4. I mean I've taken a test 3 times already and it usually comes out with numbers around 5- 96%. 4-91%
oh man. I am still very close to 5w6 or 4w5. both of those fit me. I feel like I am a 4 that hops into a 5&6 with a little of 3. haha
Hi Hillary! Great video and happy Easter! I honestly went through this constantly contemplation for a while. The question you asked about being different, I want to be different but I am selective about where and who I am different with. It all depends on environment for me. So yes, I want to be different but it’s all based on context and environment and where I feel it is safe to be different. In terms of the 5/4 battle, I think I amm a 5w4 since I tend to use my head and am less emotional but on my own, I tend to express myself more. For me I am one to pursue knowledge that helps form a sense of identity.
Thank you. I still am not clear. I feel I'm right in the middle. I tested as 5w4. I identify with the 4 up until it comes to wanting to be different and flaunt it. I don't try to hide it and know I have some awkward differences, but I probably do hide. Some of the descriptions sound as if one consciously behaves in these ways, but I am not so conscious of wanting to be anything. I also think I have changed with age. I think I might have been more a 4 when I was a child, but disapproval caused me to tamp a lot of that feeling different and being proud of it down. I have always been quite analytical and methodical and attracted to puzzle solving, but I am very emotional and empathetic. When I see someone cry, I begin to cry. As far as stress goes, I identify with both your descriptions equally. In the MBTI, I test as an INFJ. I think the thinking and feeling cognitive functions are pretty balanced for me. My Se is a big problem, but I am able to get out in the world and function, keep washed and groomed (LOL) and keep most of my physical environment in acceptable if imperfect order. SORRY! So, I liked your presentation, but I don't think I've come away knowing where I fit.
This is almost verbatim to what I was going to comment! I’m more confused now. I think I’m either depending on my mood that moment 🤣 I tend towards both directions equally just depends on the day (or moment). Especially the flaunting or hiding. I love glitz and wildness in apparel and have performed on stage hundreds of times in my life and love it (but maybe bc the world falls away while up there) and also some days can’t bring myself to even walk out my front door because a neighbor may see me 🤷🏼♀️
i feel like when people talk about fours they generally talk about a more immature less healthy four. healthy fours dont feel like they need to flaunt that they are different. ive tested 4w5 multiple times over the years and i dont feel like im missing something. you spend time alone contemplating not because you feel like u are missing something but because u are trying to figure out what ur authentic morals are, who you really are. that’s where the identity comes in. and when u spend time to do that and follow ur own path people might see you as flaunting that you are different even if u genuinely do not care about what others think.
I'm still.... lost.?
I do become VERY stingy when I'm stressed, and greedy if you will like I have to hold on to things. But I'm also clingy when I'm upset, I want to be with my loved one 24/7 even when they don't want to be with me XD.
But I also prefer the "identity over knowledge' argument. But knowing identity is knowledge which is why I am so invested in psychology, therapy, and mental health.
But I'm torn between wanting to embrace my "uniqueness" and being ashamed of it (hiding it).
Anyways, I think I'm a 4w5 though. Cuz I cringe when people go over the 4 type, which is a sign.
Infj in w heavy nihilistic tendencies. Feels like we're all the same at our core, perhaps just in different ways. Melancholic yet highly restrained, at times hypercritical, over-intellectualizing & withdrawn (not sure cos of 5w4 or 4w5 in ni-ti loop).
Can you plz make a video about differences in 3w4 and 4w3 plz .
This was great, but it didn't really help. ALL of it applies...I think for me...the deciding factor for 4 was ENVY. But I do care a lot what others think (3) And I do notice a lot of 6 scanning for danger. We all have it all and I suppose what's more important than assigning a number is knowing and being aware of a reactive response in any segment. Thank you!
You’re welcome!❤️
I want to hide that I'm different (5), but I think I'm more shame and emotion-based (4).
INFJ, 5w4 here with 5 - 98% and 4 - 95%, I feel like I tend to fluctuate between the two depending on mood stress and environment, e.g. 5w4 when working and 4w5 when at home. Is it possible to move between these wings depending on our situation/environment?
I remember having this discussion with you during my typing session since I have such strong 4 and 5 tendencies. Sometimes I still wonder if I am really a 4 since I don't act like the typical 4. But with this video having knowledge and information is supposed to help 5s feel better about things when for me, I'm on information overload researching and feeling more lost and confused.
This video did make me wonder about my triype though. I know we said I might be a 469 but what if I'm a 451 or a 459 or even a 461? I read something a while ago where it says that we have wings within the types of our triype and my mind was blown. People are really complicated and complex full of so many layers! And the Enneagram is so deep in trying to explain it all!
My sister said I should tell you about these fixations and obsessive thoughts since you are my coach, but I felt bad doing so since I didn't want you to think I doubted you. And lately I've been feeling so unmotivated and scattered. It's like a complete 180 from how I first started school. I used to be so anxious and on top of everything that I got it all done despite my crippling anxiety. But now I feel nothing I'm just like, "Oh, I should probably do that... Why am I not feeling motivated to do this? Let's try to do it.... (not that long passes) I guess I'm not doing this... oh well." It's very odd and unsettling. And I don't know why it's happening. I guess this is what depression looks like after the anxiety has died down.
I know you've been busy with things and dealing with the family loss, so I didn't want to bother you or seem insensitive or selfish either. Anyway speaking of schoolwork... I should get back to that now. Miss you!
Hi Christina! That's ok that you don't act like the typical 4. With countertypes and wings and levels of health it does get confusing at times. You might be right about your tritype. Only you truly know the order. Keep digging and asking yourself....why do you do what you do? What do you use first. What do you use second and so forth. If your needing another session I do have one session options on my website. I'm sorry about how school is going and your not feeling motivated. You totally are not insensitive or selfish! I always love hearing from you! ❤
@@enneagramandcoaching Hi Hillary! Thank you for your reply! I signed up to take Michael Shahan’s enneagram coaching course in May, so it will be interesting to see what I learn there. I wonder if typing ourselves will be part of it? But if I’m still uncertain after all that I might take you up on your offer and purchase another session.
I know I have the tendency to overthink things and over analyze them lol. So I’m probably making this more complicated then it needs to be.
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Great take on 4w5 or 5w4! I'm still confused...haha just kidding. The last question if we want people to know we are different, I've never thought about that but yes I do do that. Even though there are times I want to say some in a group but I know if I say it, it will be taken as "way out there" or too deep for the conversation. Yet when I feel convicted I speak up and I always stand out, when it's good I make people laugh and when I go too dark, I see others cringe. Yeah so I guess I lean more to 4w5. Love your channel!
so are you 4w5 or 5w4 now? you described me and i still can't understand my ennea
@@sullxwi I’m 4w5. The identity is a big part of me and being different in social settings is important as well.
Wow, a great list of ways to pin things down.
Thanks for your help!
You're very welcome!
I definitely have to think about how I feel but Im cool with being different =] oh no back to one lol
Great video as usual from your kind and huge wisdom Hillary! I am definitively T4 wing 3 but also feel winged 5 . It is possible, isn't it? And 'am still wandering how could I use these knowledge to make better deeper relationships.... What should I know suddenly at first time when meet someone new (date, job, etc....) or old friends as well and go on the easy better deeper way together if we can? Always looking researching discovering the others when I see them and trying to find their ways and the general corporate way as well,.
Thanks! Yes that’s possible 😃
Very helpful video! :)
Glad it was helpful!
I know I'm a 5, my doubt is between 5w4 or 5w6 since my mom was a 6 and lots of that fear was taught, not natural from me
Oii 4w5 Infj here
Awesome!
My 2nd son identifies as a 4, and when he was young he was very emotional and would get so angry with his siblings. When he went off to college he used his 5 wing to temper his emotions to the point I can hardly see them from the outside now. He seems a lot like a 5 these days, so I had to watch this video to confirm he is actually a 4. :)
great, thank you ...
Welcome!
Is it normal for a 4w5 to act like a 7 in stress if they have a heavy 5 wing?
I have the same question because I dont remember me behaving like 2 under any stress. Also I have strong 9 traits.
that's my problem too.
INTJ 4w5 ... I’m assaulted by my emotions. ☺️
still don't know, but i guess 4w5 just cuz im infp
this coming out on April 1st of last year though LOL
😂😂😂
I'm still not sure... I relate so heavily to both. I know Im a sx instinctual variant so that could be whats throwing me off