FRANK ZAPPA's Holy Trinity of Jazz Rock | Part One
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
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I am a drummer, producer and educator. I talk about Jazz, Prog and Fusion and the cultural context in which music has been, and is made. And sometimes, if you are lucky, I go off on one...
Oh how I love when someone talks profoundly about stuff I love
Forgive me if I indulge in a bit of nostalgia. The first time I saw Zappa in concert was March 12, 1973, at the Music Hall in Houston, Texas. I was 15 and I still have the ticket stub ($4.50). The Music Hall (demolished in 1998) was a relatively small venue with about 2000 seats and very good acoustics. An Over-Nite Sensation was not out yet. The Grand Wazoo and Waka/Jawaka were the current records, and that was the music that dominated the show, with a few old Mothers of Invention pieces. The band included George Duke, Jean-Luc Ponty, and Ruth Underwood, I’m sure. I recall some trombone solos, I think the Fowler brothers and Ian Underwood were there too, but I wouldn’t swear to it. It was an incredible show.
It started when Zappa was rolled on stage standing on a dollie by the road crew. I knew nothing whatsoever about Zappa being pushed off stage in London until years later. This was long before the internet and information was not so readily available. Although it all seemed like a bit of fun at the time, and Zappa did not offer any explanation that night, in hindsight, I think he was still having a little trouble walking, although he was standing and moved around some on stage. At one point in the show, without any introduction, Zappa went into the percussion section, Ruth stepped aside, and they just started playing an instrumental version of “The Yellow Rose of Texas” (ua-cam.com/video/LArGlfEVYqM/v-deo.html) with Frank leading on the xylophone. Of course, in Texas everyone recognized the melody immediately and were delighted, but it was rather surreal. Years later I noticed Zappa playing traditional songs, music, and national anthems for local audiences from various regions and cultures on some of his live recordings. I guess this is something he did regularly. It was a nice touch.
You lucky bastard
"Peaches En Regalia" is the sound of my youth. My dad and uncle loved "Hot Rats"- great album, and Captain Beefheart was on it too!
I think Sleep Dirt is essential. The Ocean is the Ultimate Solution is one of his best in that genre. Maybe his best guitar solo..😊
I have done a video on the Gary Panter...who incidentally went onto be Pee Wee Herman's production designer RIP
I love that record….has always been a favorite.
The instrumental original is amazing.
Working title was Hot Rats III iirc.
I love that tune but cant say that i have identified the genre.
@@anderslarsson7426 FZ was his own genre.
Waka Jawaka has always been one of my favorites. The horn arrangements are off the charts!
Nice wordplay!
Another interesting thing about this transitional period in Zappa’s career (recuperating from 1971 attack) is that his guitar playing advanced by leaps and bounds, seemingly overnight. Although FZ certainly recorded some great guitar solos with the original Mother’s and especially on Hot Rats, they are nothing like the blazing, take no prisoners solos on the 1973 Overnite Sensation album. However, I’m not sure if John McLaughlin had an influence on this new development. (Perhaps his hiring of world class jazz musicians/soloists made FZ realize he needed to up his guitar game?) Many years ago I spoke with a music store owner in Cambridge, Massachusetts who had seen a show on that combined 1973 MOI/Mahavishnu tour. He told me for that show The MOI followed McLaughlin and that he and the audience (those who remained anyway) were blown away by how FZ’s guitar solos (as well as the ensemble performances) were every bit as incredible and amazing as the ones McLaughlin had played earlier.
thats a great point
Chungas revenge was my fa vourite until I bought the grand wazoo. This is one of those perfect records I now never tire of.
I was playing my waka last night. Love the double drums great recording
Man, that's a sentence that would be taken the wrong way in any other comment thread.
Always loved Beefheart. Never could get into Zappa. Perhaps, it just wasn’t the right season in life. I’ll give him another listen and see what happens. Thanks! 💜🌙
For a real obscurity, there is an album that exists that finally links Zappa with the Velvet Underground. It's the debut album by Chunky, Novi & Ernie, which came out on Reprise (MS 2146) in 1973. "Chunky" (real name Ilene Rappaport, ultimately morphing into Lauren Wood) is one of the vocalists on The Grand Wazoo. The album was produced by John Cale, hence the Velvet Underground connection. Mainly a soft rock album, sort of like Fleetwood Mac. One of the tracks, "Underground," was subsequently covered by Montrose. A quirky curiosity worth checking out. They give special thanks to Frank Zappa for "providing a father figure." I bought the record when it came out in 1973. I still have it.
"Hot Rats" was actually recorded over the summer, and released in October 1969
I saw that tour/concert. Birds of Fire was pretty much ripping everyone's brains out. Goodman vs. Ponty. It was epic. So much to consume in one sitting. I'm still recovering.
i could have done with you when I was putting together my video thats coming out on Friday. If you fancy doing an interview send me an email
I'm honored that you'd ask! Even though I'm old, I'm still a working musician -- and that means I have a gig. Thank you!@@AndyEdwardsDrummer
Probably my favourite three Zappa albums. If I had to choose one it would be the Grand Wazoo. This was just an absolute joy and can’t wait for part 2.
Yes. That whole album is his masterpiece imo.
Three very good albums. I like fusion Zappa. When I first heard Waka Jawaka I recorded onto cassette tape and played the thing continuously.
I like one song from Hot Rocks. Chuck the rest. I am a Zappa fan, more of the Live from The Fillmore, Joe's Garage and Sheik Yerboti era.
Excellent, excellent, and excellent. IMO Frank Zappa = full artistic personhood.
Great video! More Zappa the better. Looking forward to part II
3 of the many reasons why I can’t pick a favorite Zappa album.
Wonderful Video Andy. ,
Yes it's all , true ,I admit to everything ( with tears in my eyes )😮💨
Absolutely loving your Zappa videos.
That moment in the early 70s was quite astonishing. I'm unaware of a similar explosion of ideas & cross pollination (rather than theft). Bliss. Thanks for this one. I'm off to dig out some tunes.
Love those three records. Love Zappa in general. Interesting to listen to your insightful take on the matter.
Waka Jawaka (song) at about 10:30+ horns and bells literally makes me cry. Zappa you old sap, luv it.
Great video as always Andy! Never saw the Zappa/Mahavishnu link but about to watch the second one so ....see you on the flip side!
From one Zappa scholar to another; always love to hear your opinions on the man and his contributions.
That Dweezil put together a touring unit that could pretty faithfully execute the whole Hot Rats album, (which was largely built up through editing and overdubs) is nuts. The release of Hot Rats in 69 (not 70) was seismic. Cool breakdown, but from here it seems like Mr.Green Genes contains about as much improv as any track on Hot Rats, (at least FZ gives himself a lot of rope on this one). No doubt though Wazoo, WakaJawaka and Hot Rats are core FZ albums and massively influential.
Son of Mr Green Genes has a lot of room for FZ to solo but it's in a very tightly arranged structure. And even when FZ solos it is over the form. So I have always seen it as each side starting and ending with tightly organised compositions, and then two open ended jams as the sandwich feeling.
I agree The Grand Wazoo is the best of the three in my opinion. Almost like easy listening .
The first time I ever heard Hot Rats was at a Jeans West store in Bellevue, Washington. Fun fact. Hot Rats was in high rotation as background music in clothing stores across America in the early 70’s.
Coolness, love all three of these albums, thanks for the in-depth info ... and can't wait for the Zappa vs McLaughlin one!!!
Thanks Andy,your knowledge brings us a lot.Grand wazoo is m'y préférés FZ
The Grand Wazoo, depending on the day is my favorite Zappa record and is undoubtedly one of the more underrated records of the era. I've seen it panned as "game show music" and things like that and I suppose to some degree it was Zappa's effort at being sort of conventional-ish with the Jazz tropes of the time, but by the time you're about half way through the title track you'd be hard pressed to make the case that the music is conventional at all really, the solo sections are pretty out there. Writing clear themes that make music identifiable seems to turn off certain kinds of listeners. It's an odd paradox. But I think the record has a nice balance of clear themes and challenging bits.
I enjoy your Law of three recordings ... keep m coming ... Roy is from another universe
As a young Zappa fan I bought all these records when they were released. Hot Rats still my favorite but I like them all. BTW I met Cal Schenkel at the Ann Arbor Art Fair around 1970 I believe, real nice guy!
Great work Professor.
JT
No complaints but I always wished Zappa had recorded many more "jazzy acoustic double bass" albums (eg "Twenty Small Cigars") I reckon he could've created yet another genre of jazz equal in significance to Sun Ra, Mingus, Monk, Dolphy, Hermeto etc...
Are you refering to the King Kong album by Zappa/Jean Luc Ponty?
@AndyEdwardsDrummer actually "20 small cigars" version with John Guerin (dms) and Max Bennett (acoustic bass) from Chunga's Revenge
have a listen to the zappa 1961 version of 'take your clothes of when you dance'instrumental....in Bosa Nova which was two years before girl from Ipanea had broken bosa nova to the US market ua-cam.com/video/mGOPuJc1XdY/v-deo.html
All 3 are masterpieces, id also add the complete concert of "Orchestra Favourites" - Time to do a Soft Machine "Special" !?! Thanks !
I'm not a big Soft Machine fan...I like Bundles because of Holdsworth. My favourite Soft Machine album is Land of Cockayne which isn't really a Soft Machine album
Very insightful.
Thanks!
Brilliant Andy , it's great to watch just as I think about these few albums . Not unlike the vid you did about the Panter albums , the master peice that almost never happened . Got to love FZ .
Great presentation - Thanks 👍
Can't wait for this one!
i hear bitches brew in big swifty ... George Duke lifted every band he joinded , The Stones, Zappa ...
Ron Selico also played on John Mayall's "Jazz Blues Fusion" album from 1972 with a great line-up of musicians. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_Blues_Fusion_(album)
Love that album. Thanks for the reminder to listen to it again. 👍
Love this analysis. Thank you. Great listen.
fun fact: the original title for waka/jawaka was "Hot Rats II"
The first time I saw Zappa was with the Mahavishnu Orchestra opening. Didn't know who Mahavishnu Orchestra was but I learned.
Wow...what an introduction. What did you think?
When Hot Rats came out my older brother had it. I borrowed it and "Lady Coryell" Larry's first lp. I don't think I ever returned it to him. Sorry, Tom. All three of these are great. Don Preston was from Carla Bley's band? Frank had some Jazz people with him quite early. Thanks for the video.
Hah! Maybe your brother secretly wanted to get rid of it?
Hi Andy, I am a Patreon member. I have always had a problem with Frank Zappa. I just don't get him. Too Avant Guard? I'm not hip enough? I have tried, over and over. I love Hot Rats, I have the $100 box set with all the session material. I like maybe (?) a dozen songs from all the other Zappa albums, but he's just to hip (or something) for me. I don't see how you can mention him in the same breath with the Mahavishnu Orchestra. By the way, like you, I am a HUGE fam of the Mahavishnu Orchestra, have been since I heard Birds of Fire in the early 70's. I have maybe 1000 CD's, I have over 500k songs in my music library. And thank you for turning me on to Porcupine Tree, Gong, and Gentle Giant. Over the last 2-3 years I have been exploring jazz, must be maturity finally taking root! Best to you. Ray
Hi Ray, thanks for supporting me. As you are a Patreon send me a message and I will do a video about this. I find this really interesting, as for me there is very little music that reaches the intensity of Mahavshnu but FZ does it on tunes like FIVE FIVE FIVE or THE DEATHLESS HORSIE but for me with FZ it is the melodies...ua-cam.com/video/Aa1JR-TgPfU/v-deo.html
🌠good video man..I love all 3 albums..especially peaches & blessed songs..
Hi Andy, great video again, these three albums are as you describe the holy trinity of jazz rock in respect of Zappa, they are incredible. The first one - "Hot Rats" was the album that really made me a Zappa freak. I had heard little bits of other stuff by him before this but as soon as I heard Hot Rats I didn't want to listen to anyone else, it's still a favourite of mine of any band. I didn't hear Waka Jawaka for quite some time after but did listen to The Grand Wazoo straight away and this took things to the next level for me, the musicians are fantastic, I especially like George Duke, Sal Marquez and Aynsley Dunbar, but the album just feels so well put together and produced. The first time I heard Waka Jawaka was pretty much the same and I wondered why I missed it for so long, it's another great album. I am very interested to see what you say in the follow up video later, I'm a big fan of John McLaughlin as well but didn't start listening to The Mahavishnu Orchestra for a long time after Zappa, the first album I listened to with John McLaughlin on it was "Friday Night in SanFrancisco" with Al Di-Meola and Paco De Lucia, another fantastic album. I recently bought on vinyl "Visions of the emerald beyond" by Mahavishnu Orchestra and wow! just brilliant, so as I say I am quite intrigued on your thoughts later on, good luck.
There is an interview with Jimmy Carl Black that split into small segments. A very good interview. How Frank fired the original mothers just boggles my mind. Jimmy was the coolest guy on earth. Andy these three are great albums but I still prefer the original Mothers personally.
Lots of recent releases from the Zappa vault covering this period, including The Hot Rats Sessions, Wazoo box set, and the very recent Funky Nothingness (although this last one is more blues-rock than jazz-rock)
Yes...I'm going through that stuff as I type...so much stuff
Shuggie Otis is Johnny Otis son. Johnny Otis lead an r'n'b' band, utilizing some of the best jazz players in L.A., throughout the fifties and the sixties. I had Shuggie's first album (yes, he was 15, I was 16) and the kid plays some rather decent blues, somewhat immature and very speedy. I got to know Juicy Lucy a bit in 1973, she of the G.T.O.s - Frank's attitude about females was a bit immature. Why some female players didn't join his band with a vengeance is a mystery to me. Probably Frank didn't take female players seriously. He did hire Ruth Underwood for a few years. I had been playing guitar for a year (on a borrowed guitar) in 1970 when I bought Hot Rats. Frank was showing me a new way of playing guitar. I could do without Frank's sexual references. I'll type my Beefheart story (1969 - Trout Mask!) later. I purchased my first guitar in 1972 - a 1961 Les Paul Junior, one hundred bucks. A hundred bucks was like, ten thousand dollars in 1972.
Wow Dennis...you have come up with the goods in this comment!!!
@dennismason as a girl to be 200days in the year on the road with this guys is not the best. F.e. the 1976 Bianca quit after short time .
For your streetaudience Strawberry Letter 23 could be a nice piece. (I had also in mind Summer In The City)
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer - and not a damn donut among them.
@@narosgmbh5916 - hello, my love... (Strawberry) - yes, but then I'd have to learn a new chord progression. Actually I love that song. John Sebastian is fine but that song was played about 37 jillion times when it came out and I couldn't stand to hear it again. We need a female who can lead a superb band like Frank's and not like Frank's. Oooh ooh ooh ooh ooh oooh....
in the early 70s I bought an used Peugeot 504 with used MCs included. one of the MCs was Loving Spoonful and John B. S. . By coincidence I pushed in the recorder. A sunny holiday through switzerland on the way to a beach holiday in Italy. Perfect music for this trip.
A female Zappa would have no audience. Not then, not today. Unfortunately.
Hey Andy, great, informative video. I love these 3 albums, all masterpieces! I particularly love "Peaches En Regalia", "Little Umbrellas", "It Must Be a Camel", "Big Swifty", "The Grand Wazoo", "Eat That Question". Rewarding listens. I think that "Transylvania Boogie", "Twenty Small Cigars" & "Chunga's Revenge", all appropriately instrumentals from the 1970 Chunga's Revenge album would easily fit in with these 3 albums. Have you got the book "The Big Note" by Charles Ulrich? If you don't, it's absolutely essential to have. Cheers man!
Blessed Relief on Wazoo contains what is probably my favourite micro-moment in Frank's entire output. At 7.07, there's a little, almost stumbling guitar recapitulation of the main tune that I always find very moving and quite possibly the closest indication of falliblity he ever put on record. (Though I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the cynical old swine did it deliberately to elicit such a response).
I think the instrumental Sleep Dirt, originally released in 1979, could be in this group too? (Not the 1980s issue with those vocals I find hard to love.)
PS: I have come to find endearing Andy's lousy pronunciation of McLaughlin's name as Magofflin!
hey andy i love your videos i’m a guitar player i love john mclaughlin, jimi hendrix, david gilmour, and a lot of jazz fusion blues and bop but i’m trying to get into zappa and i really like hot rats and shut up and play yer guitar anymore suggestions. (i really like improv guitar solos)
One-size-fits-all and Inca roads masterpiece
Another good one 😎
Grand Wazoo was the first Zappa Recording which got to me without any Objections. It is still my Favorite. But I do understand why so many People put „One Size fits All on their first Place.
Im trying to understand the hoopla around Zappa, so I went and listened to Hot Rats. It sounded like background music from every 70s tv show or Dirty Harry soundtrack
Really? Which 70s TV show sounds like this? ua-cam.com/video/yR_ypEXdJQc/v-deo.htmlsi=NLTiRekuEWnUUYXJ
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Hawaii 5-0, Kojak, Streets of San Fransisco
I did then listen to Waka jawaka and I liked it a little better
Zappa had some of the same session musicians who probably played on some of those TV theme songs. Guys who played for Lalo Schifrin.
In fact, Little Umbrellas was written years earlier as part of a film soundtrack.
Hot Rats I love, but only the Rykodisc remix. Little Umbrellas and It Must Be A Camel are perfected.
There are early mahavishnu that went into the region but I think Zappa squared the conundrum of jazz/rock in a rhythmic sense and his Hot rats solves the problem of drumming with regard to improvisational jazz rock...Bitche brew stay in the Jazz vein of drumming but Zappa had the compositional skills to square the circle.
Cool vid, thanks! I think Overnight Sensation, Apostrophe, and One Size Fits All make another great trinity but not sure what you would call it
Yes, but I would have to stick Roxy in there
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer and make it a quad, or would you remove one of the others?
I always hear “Uncle Meat” as a jazz/ rock record. My favorite Zappa record is “Uncle’The Grand Wazoo’ Meat”.
I always hear Uncle Meat (and I love it) as Zappa absorbing and processing Igor Stravinsky’s chamber music.
I would add STUDIO TAN and make it a quartet. (Or at least half of it.)
great show...just reading a biography of Zappa
the live version of Big Swifty by the Wazoo band is really tight - there is some excellent rivvum guitar which I believe is FZ.
My favorite Zappa Jazz/Rock (Fusion) albums are The Grand Wazoo/Sleep Dirt...
Disappointed with the Funky Nothingness release... a couple of stand out tracks, tho
Its no where near Hot Rats like it was marketed
How could the stuff Zappa didn't put on the album make it any better. I feel like all these releases that have come out after Zappa's death kind of go against Zappa's conception. Perhaps this is worth a video at some point
I would also say the album "Sleep Dirt" from Läther
And even Make a Jazz Noise Here...
Hot Rats album from 1969.
They pale into insignificance compared to "The Jazz Avengers" from Japan. These are master musicians. FZ was original but he has had his day.
Who could turn down shenanigans?
no one...it's unethical, but I will use that word if it means getting my own way
Always liked Hot Rats but I find difficult to listen to to many songs of FZ ... the singing kept me away for a long time. Wil give a lsten to these other two releases, also because I love Aynsley Dunbar since the first Journey albums. What your opinion on him?
Great drummer, but his time with FZ is my least favourite time, except for Waka and Wazoo
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Thanks Andy, I supposed that 😊
I'm a little pimp with my hair gassed back.
Great discussion! I love two of those recordings, particularly The Grand Wazoo, but am surprised and humbled to discover that I missed the amazing Waka Jawaka!
Thank you for mentioning the greater amount of improvisation and experimentation in the live shows. Here is a concert from Sweden in 1972 features probably my all time favorite of Zappa's smaller "Jazz-Rock" bands. It's the same year that Waka Jawaka came out (with a slightly different and smaller line up of musicians, FZ, Jean Luc Ponty, Tom Fowler, Ralph Humphrey, Ruth Underwood, Ian Underwood, George Duke, Bruce Fowler) Was this particular band was every recorded in the studio?
ua-cam.com/video/BynKe8BjIxk/v-deo.html
Never got into Zappa even though he's an interesting character. Y
My favorites are also
Hot Rats
The Grand Wazoo
Waka Jawaka
and Apostrophe
But I am not familiar with all his albums, any others I should investigate?
If you like those try King Kong by Jean Luc Ponty (it is basically a Zappa album) One Size Fits All, Roxy and Elsewhere and perhaps Orchestral Favourites.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Thanks, for some reason I have never heard of the King Kong album, very nice
Nice work Andy! That piece could be enjoyed by a viewer who is familiar with Zappa while tempting a new generation of Frank's followers. He is not exactly an artist in which you casually sample. A healthy balance of knowledge and opinion makes an intricate breakdown fly by.
Great, I like this one. :) Can you explain: what is the difference between "Fusion Music" and "Jazz Rock"? I always thought they are synonyms.
There is no real difference but some tend to call the proggy out there stuff from the early seventies jazz rock and the funky commercial stuff that came later fusion
Any chance of a review of the Waka / Wazoo set. The outtake version of Blessed Relief is a bit special.
It's more "Jazzier" than the LP version..
What about Make a Little Jazz Noise Here? Hot Rats surely not a jazz album.
The gumbo variations e.g.?
Grand Wazoo.
Sleep Dirt is a worthy inclusion.
Andy, if you haven't seen this already you have to check out what Ruth Underwood says about Zappa watching the Mahavishnu Orchestra.
ua-cam.com/video/xGeZGrJ1ICQ/v-deo.html
We have all of these UA-cam cats telling us how great this stuff is but in reality, NOBODY bought any of these records. As soon as these titles went out of print, they vanished for twenty years until re-released on CD. There never was much interest by anyone.
Hot Rats is Zappa's only listenable-more-than-once album.
Thank God Ruth Underwood isn't on it.
Edwards, how about the triumvirate of:
1-RESPECTING PEOPLE'S FREEDOMS, like God has from the very beginning with Adam and Eve, and 2000 years ago when Jesus, God incarnate walked amongst us.
2-RESPECTING CHILDREN, for woe to those who'd bring harm and scandal to any of the little ones, like that same Jesus, God who saves said.
3-SERVING GOD, FAMILY AND NATION, in that order, with faithfulness and commitment...Shema!!!
I am going to talk about my Trinity on Sunday
Holy trinity my ass. Second rate Miles ( waka jawaka ) Elevator boogie (hot rats). Cant come up with a quick put-down for wazoo. How about pop-fusion. They're not bad but holy trinity?
The opening compositional elements of The Big Swifty is unlike anything on any Miles album. If you think that Peaches en Regalia, Little Umbrellas or It Must Be Camel is elevator music, I want to know where that elevator is.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer - Andy, that guy is an idiot, a troll, or both.