If Warhammer 40k taught me anything is that thousands of years from now people will worship the contents of that vault without actually understanding anything inside it.
In that case, I recommend that you look into the KEO time capsule. You can leave a message for the people of M53 to discover if you like, or just take comfort in the knowledge that it exists.
Last august, I visited Svalbard and the Gruve 3. What's strange about this trip is that the guides of the mine told us everything about the mine itself, how the people worked there and about the arctic seed vault. They even showed us a smaller seed vault located within the mine. But they did not tell us anything about the AWA, despite its entrance being super eye-catching.
Since 2001 the magnetic poles annual movement is now 6 times faster... In 2008 they built a seed bank.. in 2016 the department of defense had to expedite funding to fix our gps systems because of it, and almost at the same time Elon stated the desire to colonize Mars within the next 100 years to "ensure the survival of humanity. They finished this data vault in 2017, then in 2018 Bezos builds an underground clock to last 10,000 years. These are just a few to mention... Even notice Governments don't call it global warming anymore? It's now Climate Change.. why? To avoid challenging the taxes in court once science contributes enough data towards natural causes to suspend the tax given it's lack of infrastructure payoffs.. Once it became "Climate Change" they begun using all the money in these doomsday bunker systems and then funnel untold billions into colonizing beyond Earth. Makes you wonder... Google image search "magnetic north movement map" and common sense will prevail. It doesn't require a genius to realize if our poles move thousands of miles in 50 years that it will cause something to happen. It's also no surprise as the north pole moved out into open water that the ice melts as ocean water is a poor insulator for the cold.. whereas the south pole is still moving over land, the stone can store that cold for longer more efficient periods of time, and thus even NASA will tell you that the Antarctic is still forming ice faster than melting.. (To the UA-cam moderator.. this is all sourced from .GOV and .EDU sources, and personal highlights are phrased opinionated)
An ENTIRE VIDEO??? HA HA HA HA. Install an add ---on for your browser designed to better YT, and you will see that like 40 percent of this video's time is either filler of sponsored cr*p. I bet there's also all sorts of obnoxious ads on top of that (I wouldn't know I never saw an ad on the platform in decades thanks to some other tools you can't talk about or else, nowadays).
Back in the 50's(?) a series of books came out entitled "English Through Pictures" that taught the language using images of stick figures rather than by trying to translate into the language of the reader. I think you could preserve a book like that using a technology that has been proven to last millennia by impressing those images on fired clay tiles. You could tile the walls of your data vault with textbooks incised into clay tablets.
Vsauce's vid on the gold discs on a space probe tries to tell anyone or anything that attempts to read the golden discs that humanity existed by making very detailed drawings. Gold never oxidizes or degrades like most other stuff.
@@spicychad55 Gold might be ok for a spacecraft but here on earth gold tends to be stolen and melted/repurposed if left unguarded for any length of time. I think the survival of clay tablets owes quite a bit to the fact that, in the end, the material is just mud and has little value.
We could probably make a durable but not-worth-recycling material to be a middle-ground between clay tablets that could be damaged more easily or gold that might be stolen/melted down - but the general picture teaching makes sense. Every readable language today might be unrecognizable in even a few hundred years [English 1000 years ago looks like a totally unrelated language vs. modern English]
Ok a vault but with a library of every known language and how to translate between each of them. Imagine in a thousand years people trying to figure out all these dead languages only to find this vault like someone saw this issue coming and even leaving a note saying, I know you probably forgot how to read some of these, so I got you.
Except for the oversight of not including any slavic language, excluding anyone from Eastern Europe without English skills, which is not a small amount of people
I was thinking this too! Chances are they’ll have access to information about at least one of those languages to translate the instructions, and even if they don’t, they could match similarities between the languages to crack the code
@@turdle837yeah, no slavic language is a mistake I noticed too, but other than that its pretty much perfect, take any person from any continent and they'll most likely speak one of these
The oreo vault makes me think about all the weird shit people would find if the apocalypse did happen and how that made them think our society worked. Like we would have been seen as worshipers of Wafers and coding when instead its just giant corporations doing this for clout/ to rule the remnants of the world again in the future.
You know that reminds me of that joke in that movie Mortal Engines where the archaeologist at this futuristic museum refers to two minions (from despicable me) statues as "American gods".
@@catdogmousecheesethe books were so good, the movie ruined everything... The minions was a bit cringe and was just an IP advertising crossover really. I doubt minions would even be the most surviving things in a post apocalyptic America
@@LaurzureMinions figurines might not survive the far future, but you know what type of figurines will survive just in the virtue of being so much mass produce in various qualities? Anime figurines, the humans from the far future or aliens will scratch their heads if they find out this things just like us seeing at venus figurines
imagine going on a great journey to the wise man on the other side of the world (the only human alive who knows any language of the past) to try and decode this
My thought was that it's more likely that someone will use the tutorial as a Rosetta Stone to translate a forgotten language. ("If this works out, maybe we can finally understand Spanish!")
@@griffinmckenzie7203I guess he wouldn't need to be able to read code, as long as he can read and understand the meaning of all the words, it could be translated into a language of the future, and someone smarter could actually understand the coding-part
I think you might have confused the data retention and write endurance statistics of SSDs. It is write-erase cycles that cause degradation of flash memory. An SSD used at 100% of its write performance 24/7 will indeed break down after a few months. An SSD on a shelf will last decades. Still, note the important difference between "decades" and "forever". The cells are normally erased by the controller applying high voltage to their gate, but other sources of high energy electrons (such as nuclear radiation) can wipe your data too, if that's the concern you're having.
The wear makes it harder to retain the voltage, but the voltage will still drop over time even in a new SSD. In an SLC SSD a cell only has to be able to tell the difference between high voltage (1) and low voltage (0). But a QLC SSD has 16 different charge states for one cell, so if the voltage drops only a little it may be enough to flip bits. Note, that voltage will drop over time after every write, even if powered on, but if powered on, firmware may decide to 'refresh' the cell by writing it again to boost the voltage if it starts to get to the point it may confuse things. It's not just an external source that can wipe it, it's simply voltage leakage from the SSD cells. 3 Months is probably a theoretical worst case scenario, and for a QLC drive though. Practical evaluations have shown 2 years to be more like a minimum, and exponentially longer for SLC SSDs. But I think the point of Svalbard is planning for longer than decades anyway.
You know, it probably would be a better idea to put all the medical and agricultural knowledge we have accumulated into this thing. We needed antibiotics, large scale food production, and aseptic practices before Android was a pipe dream.
If a civilisation is advanced enough to find these vaults buried so deep inside the earth, they would definitely know all the minor innovations we are proud of... And about the major innovations, I m sure someone have it covered in a vault as we have a seed and oreo vault
All that knowledge is already preserved in many different areas, I'm sure in here as well but on a small scale. This Artic Vault is just a glorified digital library for the rich. If these people actually cared about data preservation they would be helping store the Internet Archive on those reels for future use. That information there is extremely valuable and is in danger currently. They charge you around $4000 I believe for only a 120GB reel. That is crazy.
I think an italy should be a unit, because it's about 1,000 km long, so along with the rest of the metric unit system, it can easily be converted into other length units. Imperial units, by their nature, should make no sense, so the imperial unit system can use connecticuts.
@@cedriceveleigh I live in New England, and we do occasionally use Connecticuts, where we specify E-W Connecticuts or N-S Connecticuts. - There is also the vague measurements I call "A Rhode Island Trip." A Rhode Island Trip is a trip where you can SEE your destination town/city, but because of the geography of the state, you have to pack a lunch for your three-plus hour trip.
Ackchyually Svalbard is the name of the Archipelago. The major island is called Spitsbergen. The graphic was correct, as it highlighted the whole archipelago. The voiceover was not, as it stated " (...) that nearly abandoned island in the middle of the arctic ocean has a name, and that name is Svalbard. (...)"
What I learned today is that my old SSD which went corrupt approximately 5 months ago at time of posting is probably completely destroyed now, if it wasn't before. Cool!
it's pretty unlikely it will actually die in 3 months, that's just the worst case for enterprise SSDs - you'll probably be fine for about a year or so before you start getting some errors (it's a gradual failure, luckily it doesn't die immediately)
minor corruption can be handled by software (read up on it) I had an SSD (SATA) out for 2 years without it losing or erroring (noticeably). Also if you do end up storing it, just plug it in and use it a bit every once in a while, It can't be avoided since it's by design.
@@q1337 The issue with the drive is that it's majorly corrupted or broken. The computer repair shop couldn't get any data off of it whatsoever. So in all likelihood it's totally bricked anyway.
The 5 month time listed in the video is actually the worst-case scenario listed by the JEDEC association for their standards for enterprise drives. It's essentially what might happen to 0.1% of drives or less. Most drives will last way longer than that, its just that when storing data for doomsday, if you have multiple parts of a whole across several drives, they're all only as good as the worst drive.
I love that this channel teaches us about cool stuff like the Oreo Vault on Svalbard, and always throws in funfacts like the data vault that is just across the road from there. Did you know there is also a seed vault on Svalbard? Could be it's own video
I’ve been here (just seen the outside door) and our tour guide was saying that it was supposed to last for 2000 years and they’re already running into issues. They started to have some leaking due to the permafrost starting to melt due to climate change and had to do some some emergency repairs. Allegedly it’s all good now and should make it but who knows
I guess the advantage of optical tape is the same as printed words on a book, chemical inks in a stable environment (dry, consistent temperature, no UV exposure) can last thousands and thousands of years.
@@traveller23e They aren't using four colors, they are using four shades of gray (looks like white, black, light gray, and dark gray). The data is probably stored on a modern version of old fashioned black and white film (similar chemicals, but better, more stable, film stock). See Technology Connections - he has some great videos on film photography. We have some pretty old film now, so that's a good candidate for understanding how film degrades over time and what we can do to make longer lasting film. They definitely wouldn't use color - much too unstable. You can even find color pictures taken in the 80's and 90's that have color shifted, even stored properly, so definitely not what they'd want for this. They could even easily use more shades of gray to get better storage density, but I'm guessing they don't to make a more robust solution that's easier to decode.
Of course, we're not talking centuries but the data on mechanical hard drives can remain viable and readable for a heck of a lot longer than five years.
Yeah, that's a wild claim. I have hard drives that are at least 20 years old that still work. And when they break, the data will still be there. Heck, this computer I'm on right now I built in 2011 and it has had no hardware upgrades whatsoever.
I also really doubt the 3 month claim for SSDs. Not sure about the really high density stuff they use in modern SSDs, but lots of small EEPROMs (similar technology to what flash memory uses) advertise 100 year retention. And the company will have used highly accelerated life testing to verify that. Now, those are single bit per cell and much less dense, so I'm sure your dense TLC and QLC flash will be much less, but I'd be surprised if they are rated for less than 10 years. The official standards for consumer grade SSDs require at least a year, after having written alot of data (something near their max number of writes), at room temperature. Lots of SLC flash memory quotes 10 years at room. And retention life improves as storage temperature is lowered.
They are part of the strategic EU cookie reserve. They didn't want to put an American cookie in there. But America offered Europe massive military support to seal the deal.
Fun fact: Thanks to the Github Arctic Code Vault program, there's also a lot of other fun things to find for future civilizations there. Such as one of my Minecraft mods and probably some smutty fanfic blogs too. :D
There is a minor error in your explanation of SSDs, HDDs, and tape storage. You mention tape storage has the added benefit of not being connected to the internet. SSDs and HDDs sitting on a shelf are also very much not connected to the internet(!) so there is no security benefit there.
The 5 months figure presented in the video is actually marked in the video with an explanation. It's the JEDEC association's worse-case scenario for their enterprise drive standards. Realistically you could say it may happen to 0.1% of actual drives. The reason it matters for the topic of the video is because if you have a whole idea spread across multiple drives, all those drives are only as good as the worst one.
@@stylesrj lower temperature is usually better for storing an SSD. Though I do not know if there is a lower limit. The lower operating limit is 0°C, but that is when it is, you know, operating.
I visited Longyearbyen in November 2005. It was dark for 24 hours a day but the dog sledding was excellent even it-f the snow was over 3ft deep in the valley. I stayed at the Raddison so not exactly slumming and the food was delicious.
Oh I know about this one, a friend has her repository stored in it as part of Github's public repos backup policy. What is in said repository? Video game mod recommendations 😅😂.
Рік тому+1
I have two repos in that vault 😎But it's also nothing important 😂
In the apocalypse, some poor treasure hunters will find a strange vault in a cave, think they've become rich and then find it full of weird disks with a bunch of grey squares on them. They'll try to maybe send it to some big city hoping it's an ancient artifact, and someone might think they are VHS tapes, and put it in a restored VHS player they found, but it wouldn't work. So, eventually, they'll just strip the vault for parts, maybe sell the storage containers for metal and all the knowledge will go to waste.
I do wonder how long deos the new versions last. Single cell ssd last a long time and are stable, but 4 years ago some companies are using triple stack, with research going to quad stack cells. That mean't 4 bits of information in a single cell. I don't know how they do it, but 2 - 3 years might be the case for the triple stack. Disclaimer: Not a professional Edit source: Techquickie - Flash Memory MLC, TLC, SLC
The disclaimer in the video is this is the worst case scenario described by JEDEC. So likely an extremely well worn SSD with TLC or QLC memory. 2-5 years is probably more realistic, longer for a fairly minimally used SSD. SLC SSDs probably exceed that 20 years if minimally used, but they're a lot less common these days. 16 voltage states in QLC vs 2 in SLC means getting confused between 2 different charge states is easier.
2:54 I rewinded because I was working/not looking and I was sure when you said "behind the door you'll find...data" you would've had Data, the character from Startrek. I was sad when I did not see him.
An SSD will store a lot longer than a few months! I just pulled several PCs out of storage that sat for 2 1/2 years with absolutely no data loss!! There are 5 2.5" SSDs and 3 nvme drives . Different brands Western Digital, Samsung and Crucial. One PC was in a Non Climate Controlled storage unit in North Central Pennsylvania near Corning NY the other was in a Climate Controlled storage in Kentucky. Yes my stuff was scattered while looking to buy a house. Ive been using both PCs with no issues . I ran checks on all the drives no data loss so I'm not sure why your SSDs deteriorated in a few months? Must have been a really harsh environment they were in!
It is mentioned with an asterisk in the video that this is the "word case scenario" from JEDEC, which is an association of various technology companies for standardization. Most drives would never fail this quickly, but according to JEDEC's enterprise standards, this is what would happen in the worst case. And if we're talking doomsday, its always gotta be by the worst case lol.
@@stylesrj I had several survive 2 wicked winters in a storage shed just a metal and wood box on a gravel lot no power for 2 1/2 years. Subzero winters . That was my point I was very concerned at least one would have suffered somehow but they were all fine?
I was just thinking about this yesterday. Thinking about what would remain of our knowledge in 1000 years. A lot of our knowledge isn’t physically written down somewhere and it’s going more and more that way as time goes by. We could look back at stone carvings, tablets, and manuscripts. The people of the future looking at our archaeological record will be left with very little as we continue into the digital age unless we do something like this. Although it is somewhat comforting to know it exists. How long would it take future us to stumble upon this treasure trove of information. Svalbard isn’t really an ideal place to go digging for buried artifacts, at least it’s not the first place I’d look if I was an archeologist 1000 years from now
So you're telling me that all the most important bunkers in the world are all right next to each other and everyone in the world knows exactly where they are?
The Arctic World Archive, located in Svalbard, Norway, is a specialized long-term archive that contains some of the world's most important digital data, including the source code for Linux and Android, the constitutions of Brazil and Norway, and the Vatican's most important manuscripts. The archive is constructed in an abandoned coal mine located hundreds of meters beneath the permafrost, where the natural cold eliminates the need for artificial cooling. The geopolitical safety of Svalbard also makes it an ideal location for the archive, as it is demilitarized and located far from any potential conflict zones. However, preserving digital data for several thousand years is a complicated process that requires a special way to store data that can last hundreds or thousands of years. Long-term data storage is usually accomplished with magnetic tape, which can sit on a shelf without power for centuries and still be readable. The Arctic World Archive is a significant step towards preserving the world's most important data for future generations.
I have accessed many hard drives that had laid dormant for more than ten years. I stored my laptop and several hard drives in my brother's attic (in Texas!) for 3 years while I was in prison and I still use that laptop daily.
Its neat they came up with their own lts method, but i think redundancy is still a more reliable solution, so storing it both with their film method and magnetic tape would be the way to go
This is why I backup all my files onto two hard drives with redundant copies burned onto both blu ray discs and DVD. For things like vacation photos I use a special blu ray disc called an M-disc that uses a special burner to actually engrave the data into a quartz like layer. They’re supposed to last at least 500-1000 years
I didn't think that linux would be in a data archive, but hey. I would love for someone in the future to be like "bro i found some 2023 hardware, and i am running that code from the data archive"
The times listed in the video are called out as 'worst case' scenarios as per JEDEC standards, so only physical failure will bring you short of those times.
Isn’t this just the part where the advanced civilization gets wiped out but stored all of its futuristic tech for safe keeping in a vault in a remote tunnel?
A shit ton of countries have seed vaults. There's an entire international NGO dedicated to it. The one in Svalbard is just the "main" final backup. Syria had one that got damaged in their little civil war.
Post apocalypse future humans will scratch their heads trying to find the key to this vault, later to give up when the old Linux Kernel isn’t simply typed out verbatim in source because some jackass company used a proprietary system.
Waiting for a future action/war movie about soldiers of different nations struggling to reach the data vault first, to obtain the valuable data for their nation..
If Warhammer 40k taught me anything is that thousands of years from now people will worship the contents of that vault without actually understanding anything inside it.
The Oreo-priests of Mars
In that case, I recommend that you look into the KEO time capsule. You can leave a message for the people of M53 to discover if you like, or just take comfort in the knowledge that it exists.
It's the world's shittiest STC
As the omnissiah wills
Reminds me of that Star Trek (Original Series) episode... Omega Glory, I believe?
Last august, I visited Svalbard and the Gruve 3. What's strange about this trip is that the guides of the mine told us everything about the mine itself, how the people worked there and about the arctic seed vault. They even showed us a smaller seed vault located within the mine. But they did not tell us anything about the AWA, despite its entrance being super eye-catching.
Really? I was there this March, and they even had a piece of the film stock to show us.
I also went in March this year. Our guide talked about what sort of stuff was stored, but nothing about how (unless I zoned out for that bit)
Since 2001 the magnetic poles annual movement is now 6 times faster...
In 2008 they built a seed bank.. in 2016 the department of defense had to expedite funding to fix our gps systems because of it, and almost at the same time Elon stated the desire to colonize Mars within the next 100 years to "ensure the survival of humanity. They finished this data vault in 2017, then in 2018 Bezos builds an underground clock to last 10,000 years. These are just a few to mention... Even notice Governments don't call it global warming anymore? It's now Climate Change.. why? To avoid challenging the taxes in court once science contributes enough data towards natural causes to suspend the tax given it's lack of infrastructure payoffs.. Once it became "Climate Change" they begun using all the money in these doomsday bunker systems and then funnel untold billions into colonizing beyond Earth. Makes you wonder... Google image search "magnetic north movement map" and common sense will prevail. It doesn't require a genius to realize if our poles move thousands of miles in 50 years that it will cause something to happen. It's also no surprise as the north pole moved out into open water that the ice melts as ocean water is a poor insulator for the cold.. whereas the south pole is still moving over land, the stone can store that cold for longer more efficient periods of time, and thus even NASA will tell you that the Antarctic is still forming ice faster than melting.. (To the UA-cam moderator.. this is all sourced from .GOV and .EDU sources, and personal highlights are phrased opinionated)
Man I love the oreo vault, glad Half as Interesting dedicated an entire video on it!
That is good, but not as good as the brick vault
I hear they are coming out with new Oreo variations faster than the vault can expand storage capacity.
You're going to need a bigger vault
@@CelestialLitesjaws
An ENTIRE VIDEO??? HA HA HA HA. Install an add ---on for your browser designed to better YT, and you will see that like 40 percent of this video's time is either filler of sponsored cr*p. I bet there's also all sorts of obnoxious ads on top of that (I wouldn't know I never saw an ad on the platform in decades thanks to some other tools you can't talk about or else, nowadays).
Back in the 50's(?) a series of books came out entitled "English Through Pictures" that taught the language using images of stick figures rather than by trying to translate into the language of the reader. I think you could preserve a book like that using a technology that has been proven to last millennia by impressing those images on fired clay tiles. You could tile the walls of your data vault with textbooks incised into clay tablets.
Vsauce's vid on the gold discs on a space probe tries to tell anyone or anything that attempts to read the golden discs that humanity existed by making very detailed drawings. Gold never oxidizes or degrades like most other stuff.
@@spicychad55 Gold might be ok for a spacecraft but here on earth gold tends to be stolen and melted/repurposed if left unguarded for any length of time. I think the survival of clay tablets owes quite a bit to the fact that, in the end, the material is just mud and has little value.
in space they could have done this with sodium and still would have worked@@spicychad55
We could probably make a durable but not-worth-recycling material to be a middle-ground between clay tablets that could be damaged more easily or gold that might be stolen/melted down - but the general picture teaching makes sense. Every readable language today might be unrecognizable in even a few hundred years [English 1000 years ago looks like a totally unrelated language vs. modern English]
@@DoctorX17 and modern english today might became ancient english in the future
while todays ancient english might even be unrecognixable
Keeping the instruction in those languages is basically the modern equivalent of the Rosetta stone
Ok a vault but with a library of every known language and how to translate between each of them.
Imagine in a thousand years people trying to figure out all these dead languages only to find this vault like someone saw this issue coming and even leaving a note saying, I know you probably forgot how to read some of these, so I got you.
You're correct. To think about it further, Rosetta Superstone would be UN document corpus
Except for the oversight of not including any slavic language, excluding anyone from Eastern Europe without English skills, which is not a small amount of people
I was thinking this too! Chances are they’ll have access to information about at least one of those languages to translate the instructions, and even if they don’t, they could match similarities between the languages to crack the code
@@turdle837yeah, no slavic language is a mistake I noticed too, but other than that its pretty much perfect, take any person from any continent and they'll most likely speak one of these
Don't lie, you just wanted to make a video about the Oreo Vault but it would have been too short.
The oreo vault makes me think about all the weird shit people would find if the apocalypse did happen and how that made them think our society worked. Like we would have been seen as worshipers of Wafers and coding when instead its just giant corporations doing this for clout/ to rule the remnants of the world again in the future.
You know that reminds me of that joke in that movie Mortal Engines where the archaeologist at this futuristic museum refers to two minions (from despicable me) statues as "American gods".
@@catdogmousecheese just like the old lady adoring the Dragonball card.
@@catdogmousecheesethe books were so good, the movie ruined everything... The minions was a bit cringe and was just an IP advertising crossover really. I doubt minions would even be the most surviving things in a post apocalyptic America
half of humanity spends most of their day online… we ARE worshipers of wafers and code, we’ve given our lives to them
@@LaurzureMinions figurines might not survive the far future, but you know what type of figurines will survive just in the virtue of being so much mass produce in various qualities? Anime figurines, the humans from the far future or aliens will scratch their heads if they find out this things just like us seeing at venus figurines
Great video on the Svalbard global seed vault!
lol
imagine going on a great journey to the wise man on the other side of the world (the only human alive who knows any language of the past) to try and decode this
why would there only be one if there were any?
@@IchorX Because that's how mathematical inevitability works. Somebody has to finish last.
My thought was that it's more likely that someone will use the tutorial as a Rosetta Stone to translate a forgotten language. ("If this works out, maybe we can finally understand Spanish!")
@@IchorX It'd hardly be dramatic of Steve the well-digger knows how to read ancient code, my dude.
@@griffinmckenzie7203I guess he wouldn't need to be able to read code, as long as he can read and understand the meaning of all the words, it could be translated into a language of the future, and someone smarter could actually understand the coding-part
I think you might have confused the data retention and write endurance statistics of SSDs. It is write-erase cycles that cause degradation of flash memory. An SSD used at 100% of its write performance 24/7 will indeed break down after a few months. An SSD on a shelf will last decades. Still, note the important difference between "decades" and "forever". The cells are normally erased by the controller applying high voltage to their gate, but other sources of high energy electrons (such as nuclear radiation) can wipe your data too, if that's the concern you're having.
The wear makes it harder to retain the voltage, but the voltage will still drop over time even in a new SSD. In an SLC SSD a cell only has to be able to tell the difference between high voltage (1) and low voltage (0). But a QLC SSD has 16 different charge states for one cell, so if the voltage drops only a little it may be enough to flip bits. Note, that voltage will drop over time after every write, even if powered on, but if powered on, firmware may decide to 'refresh' the cell by writing it again to boost the voltage if it starts to get to the point it may confuse things. It's not just an external source that can wipe it, it's simply voltage leakage from the SSD cells. 3 Months is probably a theoretical worst case scenario, and for a QLC drive though. Practical evaluations have shown 2 years to be more like a minimum, and exponentially longer for SLC SSDs. But I think the point of Svalbard is planning for longer than decades anyway.
You know, it probably would be a better idea to put all the medical and agricultural knowledge we have accumulated into this thing. We needed antibiotics, large scale food production, and aseptic practices before Android was a pipe dream.
If a civilisation is advanced enough to find these vaults buried so deep inside the earth, they would definitely know all the minor innovations we are proud of...
And about the major innovations, I m sure someone have it covered in a vault as we have a seed and oreo vault
Naaaah let them figure it out. If we could do it, they could eventually lol
All that knowledge is already preserved in many different areas, I'm sure in here as well but on a small scale.
This Artic Vault is just a glorified digital library for the rich. If these people actually cared about data preservation they would be helping store the Internet Archive on those reels for future use. That information there is extremely valuable and is in danger currently.
They charge you around $4000 I believe for only a 120GB reel. That is crazy.
"A better idea"? They definitely do that
As a connecticut-er I am thrilled to see my state finally being used as a unit of measurement
As a Mass-hole living north of you, a lot of us think you are all just Eastern New Yorkers.
But it's okay, we know that only applied to Hartford.
Americans will definitely use everything, but refuse Metric unit 😂😂
i believe the word is connecticutie
I think an italy should be a unit, because it's about 1,000 km long, so along with the rest of the metric unit system, it can easily be converted into other length units. Imperial units, by their nature, should make no sense, so the imperial unit system can use connecticuts.
@@cedriceveleigh I live in New England, and we do occasionally use Connecticuts, where we specify E-W Connecticuts or N-S Connecticuts.
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There is also the vague measurements I call "A Rhode Island Trip."
A Rhode Island Trip is a trip where you can SEE your destination town/city, but because of the geography of the state, you have to pack a lunch for your three-plus hour trip.
6:25 - "I really only had time to scratch the surface" he says while showing a hard drive disc
The fact that this is kept behind a mysterious door at the end of a ancient mine/cave is the best.
Been there. It's nowhere near the end of the mine shaft it's in.
Ackchyually Svalbard is the name of the Archipelago. The major island is called Spitsbergen. The graphic was correct, as it highlighted the whole archipelago. The voiceover was not, as it stated " (...) that nearly abandoned island in the middle of the arctic ocean has a name, and that name is Svalbard. (...)"
What I learned today is that my old SSD which went corrupt approximately 5 months ago at time of posting is probably completely destroyed now, if it wasn't before. Cool!
Did you also stop using your ssd in March? My pc died in March and I’ve yet to fix it.
it's pretty unlikely it will actually die in 3 months, that's just the worst case for enterprise SSDs - you'll probably be fine for about a year or so before you start getting some errors (it's a gradual failure, luckily it doesn't die immediately)
minor corruption can be handled by software (read up on it) I had an SSD (SATA) out for 2 years without it losing or erroring (noticeably). Also if you do end up storing it, just plug it in and use it a bit every once in a while, It can't be avoided since it's by design.
@@q1337 The issue with the drive is that it's majorly corrupted or broken. The computer repair shop couldn't get any data off of it whatsoever. So in all likelihood it's totally bricked anyway.
The 5 month time listed in the video is actually the worst-case scenario listed by the JEDEC association for their standards for enterprise drives. It's essentially what might happen to 0.1% of drives or less. Most drives will last way longer than that, its just that when storing data for doomsday, if you have multiple parts of a whole across several drives, they're all only as good as the worst drive.
I love that this channel teaches us about cool stuff like the Oreo Vault on Svalbard, and always throws in funfacts like the data vault that is just across the road from there.
Did you know there is also a seed vault on Svalbard? Could be it's own video
This is actually a VERY interesting subject worthy of a full-blown Wendover Productions deal, not HAI. Just saying.
no offense for Sam but that Lemmino guy would be better.
I’ve been here (just seen the outside door) and our tour guide was saying that it was supposed to last for 2000 years and they’re already running into issues. They started to have some leaking due to the permafrost starting to melt due to climate change and had to do some some emergency repairs. Allegedly it’s all good now and should make it but who knows
You'd think that it being a "vault" that the entire room would be a bit more secure than to let ice melting require emergency repairs.
I guess the advantage of optical tape is the same as printed words on a book, chemical inks in a stable environment (dry, consistent temperature, no UV exposure) can last thousands and thousands of years.
The four-colour solution worries me, two colours would require twice as much material but be more reliable.
@@traveller23e They aren't using four colors, they are using four shades of gray (looks like white, black, light gray, and dark gray). The data is probably stored on a modern version of old fashioned black and white film (similar chemicals, but better, more stable, film stock). See Technology Connections - he has some great videos on film photography. We have some pretty old film now, so that's a good candidate for understanding how film degrades over time and what we can do to make longer lasting film. They definitely wouldn't use color - much too unstable. You can even find color pictures taken in the 80's and 90's that have color shifted, even stored properly, so definitely not what they'd want for this. They could even easily use more shades of gray to get better storage density, but I'm guessing they don't to make a more robust solution that's easier to decode.
Now we know why Star Trek TOS uses tapes
You could build the "Half as Vault" on this island in Norway and preserve all your shenanigans!!!
Of course, we're not talking centuries but the data on mechanical hard drives can remain viable and readable for a heck of a lot longer than five years.
Yeah, that's a wild claim. I have hard drives that are at least 20 years old that still work. And when they break, the data will still be there. Heck, this computer I'm on right now I built in 2011 and it has had no hardware upgrades whatsoever.
I also really doubt the 3 month claim for SSDs. Not sure about the really high density stuff they use in modern SSDs, but lots of small EEPROMs (similar technology to what flash memory uses) advertise 100 year retention. And the company will have used highly accelerated life testing to verify that. Now, those are single bit per cell and much less dense, so I'm sure your dense TLC and QLC flash will be much less, but I'd be surprised if they are rated for less than 10 years. The official standards for consumer grade SSDs require at least a year, after having written alot of data (something near their max number of writes), at room temperature. Lots of SLC flash memory quotes 10 years at room. And retention life improves as storage temperature is lowered.
So did everyone here miss the small print that said "in the worst case possible"
@@drakebalzer3950 and for ssd that is worst case when the drive is at it's end of life. Not sure if it's the same for hdd
Don't electronics degrade faster in very cold environments?
You are telling me, there's a FULL VAULT, FILLED TO THE BRIM, WITH OREOS?!
They are part of the strategic EU cookie reserve. They didn't want to put an American cookie in there. But America offered Europe massive military support to seal the deal.
No
2017 was 17 years ago 😨😨😰
1:12 anything but the metric system
Fun fact: Thanks to the Github Arctic Code Vault program, there's also a lot of other fun things to find for future civilizations there. Such as one of my Minecraft mods and probably some smutty fanfic blogs too. :D
Why would those blogs be on github of all places?
"6 Connecticut's long" will henceforth be the gold standard of measurements.
I'll just say, it might be best in the event of a near apocalypse that we forget everything we've learned.
There is a minor error in your explanation of SSDs, HDDs, and tape storage. You mention tape storage has the added benefit of not being connected to the internet. SSDs and HDDs sitting on a shelf are also very much not connected to the internet(!) so there is no security benefit there.
Pretty sure current consumer SSDs at room temp can retain data without corruption for 3-15 years. not 3 months.
Yeah, a few months sounds like nonsense. I have one from 2015 that was 100% fine when I went looking for something on it a few months ago.
The 5 months figure presented in the video is actually marked in the video with an explanation. It's the JEDEC association's worse-case scenario for their enterprise drive standards. Realistically you could say it may happen to 0.1% of actual drives. The reason it matters for the topic of the video is because if you have a whole idea spread across multiple drives, all those drives are only as good as the worst one.
@@pathally4684 it's the worst case sernario for drives that have reached it's end of life
An ice cold arctic preservation vault probably isn't "room temperature" for storage purposes
@@stylesrj lower temperature is usually better for storing an SSD. Though I do not know if there is a lower limit.
The lower operating limit is 0°C, but that is when it is, you know, operating.
So it's a roll of film with Gameboy graphics on it, or in other words missingno is preserving our future.
I feel a Svalbard brick vault is required.
As a proud Connecticut resident, thank you for using our new unit of measurement.
It's pretty accurate as a unit of measurement for measuring your state. Exactly one Connecticut long and wide (unless you mix those two up)
I think it’s close to 2 Indiana widths…
I visited Longyearbyen in November 2005. It was dark for 24 hours a day but the dog sledding was excellent even it-f the snow was over 3ft deep in the valley. I stayed at the Raddison so not exactly slumming and the food was delicious.
BRAZIL MENTIONED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh I know about this one, a friend has her repository stored in it as part of Github's public repos backup policy.
What is in said repository? Video game mod recommendations 😅😂.
I have two repos in that vault 😎But it's also nothing important 😂
I have a friend who also officially has that badge. I sadly started coding a bit too late.
6 Connecticuts from the north pole... Americans will really use anything but the metric system xD
I’ve never had data just fade away from a hard drive on the shelf
I like the Oreos being a reward for watching the rest of the video 😂😂 I just hope there's a photo of Tom Cruise encoded onto the PiqolFilm
In the apocalypse, some poor treasure hunters will find a strange vault in a cave, think they've become rich and then find it full of weird disks with a bunch of grey squares on them.
They'll try to maybe send it to some big city hoping it's an ancient artifact, and someone might think they are VHS tapes, and put it in a restored VHS player they found, but it wouldn't work.
So, eventually, they'll just strip the vault for parts, maybe sell the storage containers for metal and all the knowledge will go to waste.
Haha
Sounds about right.
I stopped at 0:24 to go watch a youtube video on Oreo Vault.
An SSD can hold data for a minimum of 2-5 Years often more like 15-20 years unpowered.
Yeah, his disclaimer went by in a half second.
I do wonder how long deos the new versions last.
Single cell ssd last a long time and are stable, but 4 years ago some companies are using triple stack, with research going to quad stack cells. That mean't 4 bits of information in a single cell.
I don't know how they do it, but 2 - 3 years might be the case for the triple stack.
Disclaimer: Not a professional
Edit source: Techquickie - Flash Memory MLC, TLC, SLC
The disclaimer in the video is this is the worst case scenario described by JEDEC. So likely an extremely well worn SSD with TLC or QLC memory. 2-5 years is probably more realistic, longer for a fairly minimally used SSD. SLC SSDs probably exceed that 20 years if minimally used, but they're a lot less common these days. 16 voltage states in QLC vs 2 in SLC means getting confused between 2 different charge states is easier.
Recently Microsoft showed their new long- term data-saving system. The information is crashed into glass.
I think we all struggled to pay much attention to anything after “Oreo vault”
2:54 I rewinded because I was working/not looking and I was sure when you said "behind the door you'll find...data" you would've had Data, the character from Startrek.
I was sad when I did not see him.
What in the actual bot-flood is going on down here
An SSD will store a lot longer than a few months! I just pulled several PCs out of storage that sat for 2 1/2 years with absolutely no data loss!! There are 5 2.5" SSDs and 3 nvme drives . Different brands Western Digital, Samsung and Crucial. One PC was in a Non Climate Controlled storage unit in North Central Pennsylvania near Corning NY the other was in a Climate Controlled storage in Kentucky. Yes my stuff was scattered while looking to buy a house. Ive been using both PCs with no issues . I ran checks on all the drives no data loss so I'm not sure why your SSDs deteriorated in a few months? Must have been a really harsh environment they were in!
Yeah, a few months sounds like nonsense. I have one from 2015 that was 100% fine when I went looking for something on it a few months ago.
It is mentioned with an asterisk in the video that this is the "word case scenario" from JEDEC, which is an association of various technology companies for standardization. Most drives would never fail this quickly, but according to JEDEC's enterprise standards, this is what would happen in the worst case. And if we're talking doomsday, its always gotta be by the worst case lol.
@@pathally4684 it's the worst case sernario for drives that have reached it's end of life
Honestly, I think the idea is that if you put them into an ice cold vault, they won't last very long under those conditions...
@@stylesrj I had several survive 2 wicked winters in a storage shed just a metal and wood box on a gravel lot no power for 2 1/2 years. Subzero winters . That was my point I was very concerned at least one would have suffered somehow but they were all fine?
I was just thinking about this yesterday. Thinking about what would remain of our knowledge in 1000 years. A lot of our knowledge isn’t physically written down somewhere and it’s going more and more that way as time goes by. We could look back at stone carvings, tablets, and manuscripts. The people of the future looking at our archaeological record will be left with very little as we continue into the digital age unless we do something like this. Although it is somewhat comforting to know it exists. How long would it take future us to stumble upon this treasure trove of information. Svalbard isn’t really an ideal place to go digging for buried artifacts, at least it’s not the first place I’d look if I was an archeologist 1000 years from now
For someone who isn't mentioning the White Vault, you sure are talking a lot about teeth in Svalbard.
they really think humans will go to a random cold island after an apocalypse
Yup, the seed vault is right next door. So, the brave will collect both seeds and data during their trip to Svalbard!
Svalbard? Where are the polar bears with armour.
0:09 "It's basically just a big cold room full of seeds. Who cares?"
Bro's access to everything related to plants was just revoked 💀
Our last hope is ^w^ and honestly I'm down for it.
Quite frankly i'm worried about my ssd and hdd, google says it lasts far more but i don't think the brick chanel would make a blunder to this extent.
He clarified on the screen that this is worse case scenario
You missed the disclaimer I guess
So you're telling me that all the most important bunkers in the world are all right next to each other and everyone in the world knows exactly where they are?
The "Teeth computer weapons" gave me Tim Robinson vibes.
"The bones are there money, in their world bones equal dollars"
Alright but can we mention the logo is literally ^w^ ?
The Arctic World Archive, located in Svalbard, Norway, is a specialized long-term archive that contains some of the world's most important digital data, including the source code for Linux and Android, the constitutions of Brazil and Norway, and the Vatican's most important manuscripts. The archive is constructed in an abandoned coal mine located hundreds of meters beneath the permafrost, where the natural cold eliminates the need for artificial cooling. The geopolitical safety of Svalbard also makes it an ideal location for the archive, as it is demilitarized and located far from any potential conflict zones. However, preserving digital data for several thousand years is a complicated process that requires a special way to store data that can last hundreds or thousands of years. Long-term data storage is usually accomplished with magnetic tape, which can sit on a shelf without power for centuries and still be readable. The Arctic World Archive is a significant step towards preserving the world's most important data for future generations.
Wtf with all those bots talking about "Amazon's AMK33X"
Nice try, bot
@@Rerbun just doing my job 🤖
What I really got out of this was that all the data I had backed up from 10 years ago and just sitting on a HDD in my closet is probably toast.
The island is called Spitsbergen. Svalbard is the name used for the whole island group.
“How long yer been in Longyearbyen?”
“Been a long year in Longyearbyen.”
I have accessed many hard drives that had laid dormant for more than ten years. I stored my laptop and several hard drives in my brother's attic (in Texas!) for 3 years while I was in prison and I still use that laptop daily.
always love vault, data archiving videos. thanks.
Imagine opening the vault's doors, with gas coming out like a movie scene just to see 4 SSD's saying "connect me to see what is stored."
Went to go re-watch your video about how dying is illegal in that town, then came back to watch this one, and it was just like OHMYGOD ENERGY ._.
1:14 Um, Actually, Svalbard is the whole archipelago, The nearly-abandoned island in question is Spitsbergen.
Its neat they came up with their own lts method, but i think redundancy is still a more reliable solution, so storing it both with their film method and magnetic tape would be the way to go
Thanks the intro, I came in thinking this was about Svalbard sea vault and was prepared to immediately click away
Kinda wild they’re trusting those wooden supports to last millennia
Next Jet Lag: race from Oslo to the Svalbard Oreo vault.
I love that magnetic tape remains a standard in archival purposes.
There's some research into glass/ceramic plates that are super storage dense and even more stable than tape
@@koreywebb7383 That's really cool! Thanks for telling me that!
This is why I backup all my files onto two hard drives with redundant copies burned onto both blu ray discs and DVD. For things like vacation photos I use a special blu ray disc called an M-disc that uses a special burner to actually engrave the data into a quartz like layer. They’re supposed to last at least 500-1000 years
Because your vacation photos must be preserved for a millennium.
3:16 1 is the default erased bit value for SSDs, not 0.
If you want to be really pedantic it could also be 11, or 111 or 111 for MLC/TLC/QLC.
The fact that if something else digs up the information we stored they will find Linux makes me happy.
1:16 "Located only 6 Connecticut's away" Thank you for the shout out, USA USA USA
I didn't think that linux would be in a data archive, but hey. I would love for someone in the future to be like "bro i found some 2023 hardware, and i am running that code from the data archive"
5:47 if you just wanna know the OREO secret.
You should have talked about another vault after the Oreo vault, thus making a vault Oreo sandwich...
Be it the data vault or the seed vault,how do they know to look for any of this in Longyearbyen?
Society will know, - you can contribute further by spreading the word!
3:32 Maybe I've got lucky but I've a regular harddrive that still has the data stored from 8 and a half years ago.
The times listed in the video are called out as 'worst case' scenarios as per JEDEC standards, so only physical failure will bring you short of those times.
the more important thing is will you be able to retrieve the data assuming you don't have the retrieval instruments available
the entire internet archive should be put on there
Isn’t this just the part where the advanced civilization gets wiped out but stored all of its futuristic tech for safe keeping in a vault in a remote tunnel?
Before you know it, there'll be an entire industrial park of vaults and archives😁
This is amazing. It took us thousands of years to create archival technology as good as 40,000 year old cave paintings
Did y'all do this video just so Sam could talk about the Oreo vault?
No matter the answer to that question, I enjoyed the video, so thank you
The reason Sam did not talk about the Oreo vault is be case it is full as interesting
I love the fact that i have some silly open source projects inside this, documented for ever.
Russia has such a repository for some reason. They also store seeds, data, and some other things.
They only spent most of the 20th century in a Mexican standoff with rocket launchers in a phone booth, after all.
The reason is that they don't trust "big seed" and "big information" they're just corporations trying to preserve what they want and not Russian truth
Everyone should have secure storage of such things. I hope the world would not need to use em, but crap happens.
I hear Princess Anastasia is still being held there.
A shit ton of countries have seed vaults.
There's an entire international NGO dedicated to it.
The one in Svalbard is just the "main" final backup. Syria had one that got damaged in their little civil war.
And then when the apocalypse happens,none of the survivors actually know about this vast sum of knowledge
"Six Connecticuts from the North Pole." As both a Connecticutian and American I'm glad to see you only use completely logical units of measurement.
Post apocalypse future humans will scratch their heads trying to find the key to this vault, later to give up when the old Linux Kernel isn’t simply typed out verbatim in source because some jackass company used a proprietary system.
I love the Simon Whistler cameo
As a Connecticutian, I appreciate the usage of Connecticut as a measurement unit of the distance between Svalbard and the North Pole
"6 Connecticuts away" im gonna use that
Waiting for a future action/war movie about soldiers of different nations struggling to reach the data vault first, to obtain the valuable data for their nation..
We need a dedicated oreo vault video
The first rule of the Global Oreo Vault is that you don't talk about the Global Oreo Vault!
oh i cant wait for the second episode, The Arctic Vault That Protects Oreos from the Apocalypse!