Will your dog need a prong collar forever?
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- Опубліковано 5 лис 2023
- We get these questions a lot:
- "When can I stop using the prong collar?
- "When can I stop using the e-collar?"
- "When can I stop using treats?"
- "When can I go back to using a flat collar or harness?"
I understand why people ask these questions. Some worry that their dog will only listen when these tools are on. Others dislike change and would like to return to their old, familiar, comfortable ways of doing things.
However, these questions cause you to overlook some fundamental dog training truths. In this video, you'll discover the inherent flaw in reasoning hidden within these questions.
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First mantra I adopted from the trainer of my now 7yr old working GSD was “every moment is a training moment”. Second mantra I’ll be adopting from you now is “just in case you need it”. Makes perfect sense.
Perfect comment.
I have tried for years to train my fur baby to walk without pulling or reacting. Got to the point I didn’t want to take her out anymore because it was so stressful. Started her with the prong collar and did what you said, I literally cried after 1 week we are having peaceful loose leash walks. She even jumps excitedly when she hears the collar! The way you teach to use it they don’t see it as something bad, I could see if you don’t learn how to use it, it could be a negative experience. But thank you for your content!!!
"because your dog, is a dog" is a funny statement but so true. My stepdad treats his dogs like they are human, if they aren't listening to him it's "they know what they are supposed to do they are just being assholes" but from the dogs perspective they are just excited by a squirrel and have no reason not to chase it. luckily after 2 years of showing them how I use an ecollar on my own dog my mom is doing ecollar training on the dogs and it's changed things for the better.
You never fail!!! I love your training!
You have a wonderful ability to get good information across in an accessible and meaningful way, Miles. You’d have made a great motivational speaker but coaching dog owners to understand their dogs better is tapping into those skills big time. I suspect you are destined for great things and you’ll work hard and will absolutely deserve the bright future ahead of you. 😁
Thank you!
The most charitable way to describe these questions: these owners are thinking (or hoping) that prong collars, etc. are like training wheels for a bicycle: something useful for getting started, and from which your dog eventually graduates (like graduating from puppy obedience school). And it's hard to blame them for hoping this. Alas, the better metaphor for training wheels are the intro steps, the introduction of the prong collar, the repetitive u-turns on the leash, the sorts of things that build foundational concepts for the dog and get them in the right mindset. THOSE things might be temporary to get them on the same page, but the actual training and corrections and structure and boundary-setting is forever.
Thanks for this. Great reminders and analogies.
Awesome explanation, very clear. Thanks!!!
Love ur use of metaphors, very clear 👍
Love your explanation.
Great explanation. Thanks
Every moment is a training moment
Additional great advice from this source. His prong collar training helped me tremendously, and this advice to stick with it is good stuff and explained well!
Dogs are opportunistic associative learners. Tools will always be needed as a default, back-up, just in case. You might not use it, but it’s there for management, consistency and clarity. I took my dog-reactive dogs to the beach - lots of high stimulation and other dogs. Potential for a ‘situation’ to occur. I’ve taught mine to avoid other dogs using the collar. I didn’t need to use their collars once. The dogs were happy at their ‘safe’ distances to other dogs, and recalled without command if other people and their dogs got too near. With the tools comes freedom and happy dogs.
Beautifully explained.
Thank you!
Spot on
Perfect !
Thank you. I was one of the person asking about this. Very clear now. Always thank you.
My prong collar arrived today. Gonna start with the conditioning later.
Thank you.
I guess that we as amateurs, we are hoping, that once dog know something how to do it, we don't need these stuff anymore.😅
You can't even count on humans to do this... Unfair to hold dogs to a higher standard
The right tools allow your dog so much freedom. My 10 mo euro Doberman (only mentioning bc he has hi drive) off leash walks, and recalls like a champ in just about any situation. He’s excited to put his prong/ or ecollar on bc he knows he’s about to go run free and as wild as he wants. While everybody else’s dog is looking miserable and frustrated. Owners tell me everyday that they wish they could let their grown dogs do what mine does. If they devoted a couple months to training with the right tools, they could.
💯
0:16 Latinoamérica literalmente 🕊️
So if you use prong collar as correction will you always need prong collar or can you switch to regular collar and leash as a correction.
You shouldn't switch to lesser ineffective type of leash for correction.
However, when your dog is "trained", at that level you barely ever need to correct your dog. Then, you can "condition"/train your dog with harness, flat collar.
I agree with you in all of this BUT I hear SO many people/trainers saying there's no excuse to use a prong collar and work on the fear element. To them I say if you give your child chocolate cake every time they behave well, that still doesn't mean they won't misbehave, also. But do you agree at all with the non fear/positive behaviour approach in any way? I am sure you've said this before but WHY in your opinion are prong collars/slip leads etc more beneficial?
That all makes perfect sense to me. Thank you. I wonder really HOW all of these "positive only" trainers DO think they'll have any success ( they clearly think they do) @@lukeryuzaki2328
@@mildredhighcock7333 Some dog sports like agility. Positive only training can work with the right individual dogs from specific breeds if trained from young age.
Positive reinforcement only and force free training is a cash cow for their trainers. It is a forever in training scheme. Even the well known reputable positive only trainers would advise against off leash their dogs in public because they know their dogs are not trained for this. Whereas if you work hard and do it right, most dogs can be trained to off leash level in months time. The government of course don't want you have well trained off leash dogs either. So unless you restrict your dogs and yourself to same controlled environment for daily routine, you're stuck with retraining your dogs to deal with new things they come to see daily every here and there.
Simply put, dogs need to learn what they shouldn't do too. You can't get that message to the dogs when they're not getting corrected for wrongdoings.
You don't need to be a scientist to know that survival instinct is also based on fear of danger. If any living being stop fearing, it has a screw loose in the head, so one way or the other natural selection would weed out the crazy because the crazy would eventually self harm.
In real life, anyone who had seen parent dogs interact with their puppies, would know that dogs require physical corrections. Parent dogs literally put their mouths and teeth on rebellious puppies' neck, shoveling the puppy until it's back down. Of course they have bite inhibition not to serious injure their offsprings. Training tools such as prong collar was designed to work in similar fashion by creating this controlled non harmful sensation. Strange adult dogs can fight for real if people don't train their dogs properly and just let the dogs do dog's thing with strange dogs.
Why are there a push for force free/ positive reinforcement only training? It's a political move. Technology and info is too accessible for commoners now that many can learn to train their dogs. The government can't just go out and ban dog ownership. A trained dog of any size can become a remote controllable weapon as much as bigger dogs can be trained for close combat. Remember that Soviet had an anti tank dog program all those decades back. Now civilians with bad motive can easily train dogs to carry explosive by communicating verbal command via cheap Walkie talkie. GPS track their dog, or use Drone to watch their dogs movement!!!
Positive reinforcement only and force free training simply doesn't work on majority of dogs, especially those with high drive. Treats are not the best things these dogs desire. It's impossible to restrain a dog as heavy or heavier than yourself with a harness. Imagine a 200 plus lbs Great Dane gets triggered to attack and you only have a harness on it. The more people fall for the positive reinforcement only agenda, the more people would eventually give up dog ownership, especially toward the bigger, headstrong breeds. You would see more attacks, insurance cost rise, renting cost rise for dog friendly apartment, public get frustrated and push for ban/legislation...
Aversion is not fear. Are trained dogs constantly in state of fear? No. Aversive force applied to dog makes them uncomfortable but doesn't mean it's always life threatening that dogs fear for the rest of their life. Because if they are, their body language would show. Dogs naturally have those unmistaken signs to communicate with other dogs because their verbal communication is very limited. It doesn't take higher education for dog owners to learn about dog body language and fall for snake oil salesman selling dog all the mysterious dog whispering nonsense.
@@lukeryuzaki2328never thought of this, it’s interesting
wish i found your videos sooner before i paid a trainer $2500 to do this and keep my dog for 6weeks 😢 without letting me see him
So Orbit still wears prong collar whenever the e collar is not on? Or do u only use e collar now?
If he’s wearing something, it’s usually an e-collar. Prong or slip lead if I need him on a leash
Everything requires maintenance!
Oh dang. Sorry that last email came out really really odd.
I just was wondering what you had before your Border Collie in what were you get next?
Will probably get a mal or another BC at some point!
The reason why I asked not sure if orbit is your first Border Collie, but once you get a Border Collie, it’s hard to get another breed
@@watchmoivies123Border Collies are so cool if you have the time for them. I used to raise sheep and cows and we had a bunch of different herding dogs that would work with us. There are a lot of Aussies that are a little bit better bred for being pets though, they can be less intense. If you get a border collie make sure you meet the parents as the real working line ones can be pretty crazy and all about work, which isn't bad if you can keep them busy but the reality is that most of us have a life where we aren't outside running all day and need a dog that can chill for most of the day.
@@BigBADSTUFF69 right. I have had them all my life. Even different lines can be more intense than others. AKC lines are one of those
So I just had a question I know you have a Border Collie know or but I believe his name is Anne I’m not quite sure how old he is but I know he’s not real young, but just wondering what you had before him and what were you get next? I know you trained with Haz do you think you’ll get a Belgian next time?
The common exception to this theory is toilet training. In 50 years of having dogs I can't remember a slip in this behavior unless there was sickness involved.
While I don't completely disagree with the fact that these insurance policies don't go away as part of their day to day training. I believe that lowering the punishment e.g. switching from prong to martingale to flat collars once certain thresholds have been reached is also a good way to progress through training.
Then you're not disagreeing. You just didn't being on the same page. What I meant is you shouldn't change your level pressure by using different tools, because it would give the dogs wrong ideas. A complete trained dog can just wear the flimsiest harness as restraining meaning whereas they wear E collar for insurance, and you don't even have to apply a correction for the whole walk/activity of your choice.
well so basically, we need the Tools forever haha
Is it possible to achieve a level where dogs can be off leash nicely without any tools on them in the public for a period of time? Yes. Should we? No. We live in human society not a dog society.
Do dogs need maintenance training? Yes, just as any professions would have annual training, to stay update with all the legislation/policy change, however minor the change is.
Shield-K9 copycat.
You've been exposed today.
You've copied word for word Haz's shield K9 course for your own financial interests which goes against his terms of conditions.
Even worse, you created your course literally copying Haz's content.
Lawyer up my friend.
What video did he copy this from?
Don't agree with prong collar
Going by your example, laws are laws BUT despite consequences, people break the law all the time. Everyone does. Drive 5 mph over the speed limit - break the law. Essentially what you've said here is that you are not actually training your dog, you're relying on tools (prong, e-collar) to control your un-trained dog. This is why balanced trainers are ineffective; without the control tools the dogs resort back to previous behaviour because they haven't actually learned appropriate behaviours because they haven't actually been trained.
It’s the same if you train +R only. Behaviors go extinct in the absence of reinforcers. All training requires maintenance, regardless of how you train. Food, toys, praise, are all tools, too.
Let's keep using the driving example. So how you +R only and stop people from driving over the speed limit? Give people money, tax deduction if they don't violate any traffic law in a year? How do you enforce it? Traffic camera every corner of the streets? Employe more transport police? Is that training or constant surveillance? And with punishment/fine/arrest, do you think it would stop violation? By your logic, people never learn anything because if people actually learn, why there is legal punishment for violation? Shouldn't some genius psychologists push +R only teaching/learning method to fix human problem first! ? 🤔
Are you sure that you're not implying that dog is a higher being that is better off with +R only, yet people have to constrained under the law?
the thing I wonder about statements like this that are obviously wrong, is where are you getting this idea, because you clearly have no experience with tools. Are you just making things up to support an agenda?