What is great about ciabatta is that it is very forgiving. If it comes out flat of the oven, it’s fine! No one will joke about your “oven spring” or your fancy scoring.
I was just watching an elderly Italian guy making open crumb ciabatta. Ne mixed his ingredients with a fork, Keaded it a little bit on a board by rolling the gooey sticky mass around a little till he thought it was properly incorporated and mixed then plopped it in an oiled covered container for an hour (yah one hour). And then he shaped his dough into loaves and put them on parchment and then DIRECTLY into a 450F oven (no stone or steel, just a sheet pan) and in 20 minutes he had nice open crumb ciabatta. No Biga, no poolish, no overnight, no autolyse, no stretch and fold every 30 minutes none of that at all. Took him maybe an hour and forty minutes start to finish and he was done with baked loaves on the counter.
I've used your method twice now and have had great results. I've always had a hard time with ciabatta, but the way you break all the steps down, it really helps with getting the right consistency for the loaf to hold shape and not spread. Thank you.
Yes defenatly. When i bake yeast bread i use 1-2 gram yeast in a 1000g flour dough. I always nake poolish and take 400g flour/400g water from to total ammount if flour. I fernent it in fridge gor 24 hours, mix the dough and let this dough ferment another 12 hours. I am very happy with the result
Wow, finding episodes I somehow missed before. Great video. I realized how much I've been using sourdough when I made my first yeast bread in two years...it was amazing how much faster it rose, but I do think the sourdough has a better flavor. Nice to know both I guess.
Thanks for the video and recipe. 1. You mentioned that stiff starter has reduced sour flavor. Have you changed your mind about the more liquid starter for more yoghurty flavor? 2. I have found the so called Danish Whisk to result in much less waste compared to using my hands. I use the whisk until the dough releases from the wire whisk. It initially forms a big ball but in a few minutes it releases making cleanup much easier, quicker & with much less waste than using my hand. It also seems more sanitary to on-lookers. Try it; I think you'll like it. Thanks again for your dedication and sourdough testing.
When I do a yeast bread, instead of just putting the yeast fresh of the package into the dough, I do a preferment (like an poolish) of yeast (14g per 1Kg of flour) water (85%) and flour (200g of rye) that I age in the fridge for 24 hours and then combine with the autolist flour and water. It gives a nice crumb and dark brown exterior
Yeah, me too, was about to comment the same. You can just exchange the starter amount by yeast-based "starter". It also improves the quality of the bread.
Way too much yeast. You are just killing the great taste taste that way trust me. If you put a small amount of yeast you are basicaly making a sourdough taste.
Hi Hendrick! I wanted to make sourdough ciabatta so bad, so my first attempt was with The FoodGeek's, (Sune) recipe. It seemed to go rather well, until I proportioned it for the ciabatta pieces. The starter was active, the kneading showed good gluten development, (windowpane), doubling fermentation, went very well, but when I went to separate into portions, the gluten strands completely collapsed. I ate it anyway. The crumb looked decent. Not sure it was the flour or too much water. I am at a loss of what I screwed up. I am 75, maybe a Senior moment. Love your videos!!
@@the_bread_code yes it’s a type 85 high protein flour, 13.5% from Cairnsprings mill. I used my 48% hydrated starter at 20% giving stretch and folds every 20 minutes or so. After 5 hrs of bulk I divided the dough and with no real shaping put them on linen for the remaining 3-4 hours, then parchment and into the oven. No autolysis, baked hot with steam for 15 minutes and then 15 more without.. Crust is soft and the crumb is soft, open and moist. We had company yesterday and I received compliments.
I am so excited about this…..I have been waiting anxiously for you to come up with a sourdough ciabatta recipe Woo hoo ….I have tried several different recipes for sourdough ciabatta and none of then turned out….and since I have so much luck with your other recipes I am very happy about this one Thank you for continually sharing your extensive knowledge ….I for one absolutely appreciate it Keep baking Merryn
I really appreciate you creating and sharing this experiment. I LOVE Cibattas. The recipe I have used in the past from America's Test Kitchen ferments the conventional yeast overnight. I can't wait to try your sourdough ciabaata recipe!!🙂
My question is that the timing is not clear. After inoculation, it appears that you tested to make sure they doubled in size, but after the first fold, how much time until shaping? It is unclear. Is there one fold, or more than one fold. Are you doing it based on time or sample rise?
This is off topic but I tried out a sourdough with cannabis. The results seem decent. I just used ABV (already been vaped) material... So the effects are very mellow. In fact, I tried a few slices and then I woke up and it was the next day... Best sleep I had in a while. Next I will have to try with some fresh, green cannabis. However it will be better to use cannabis infused coconut oil... I have always made cupcakes or brownies, but that was in my pre-sourdough days... using baking soda and eggs or egg substitute. Now that your videos upgraded me to boss level sourdough I will see how my pot cupcakes cakes will do with sour leaven
I made ciabattas few days ago and basically I done the same with just one difference- I chilled the dough in the fridge overnight before shaping, so it was easier to handle 👍
Thanks for the frig idea. I just started Chef John’s ciabatta today to bake tomorrow and it’s already doubled. I wanted to compare the sourdough to it.
Just had lunch using a hybrid of the sourdough and whole wheat bonus: equal parts bread and whole wheat. So very, very yummy. Great chew, beautiful crumb and crispy crust! Thanks for all the ideas😊
great video! how about experimenting further and preparing a sourdough and yeast ciabatta that has some whole wheat? In my experience adding a tiny bit of yeast to sourdough gives good and very consistent results and part whole wheat gives wonderful flavors but it is easy to handle
Thank you! Yep. Adding a bit of dry yeast works wonders too when making a sourdough version. Although these days I really have started to enjoy my stiff starter a lot. It allows me to make almost every recipe :-)
I would love to see a video on using vital wheat gluten to supplement weaker flours. What would happen if you had up to like 20% gluten? I'm curious to see what you would come up with and I'm surprised you have never used it!
Dr Gluten, did I understand it correctly, knead the dough (yeast) in the standmixer till its gets loose from the edge? How many minutes did it approximately take? Tnx! Love from the Netherlands
I usually make yeast bread, but I also add milk-based preferment for the added flavor, autolyse, and use a Japanese roux to start the bread as well. It took me years to develop my bread recipe. I want better flour though. You're lucky to live in Germany. You can easily source good flour.
hi can u show how u knead...my dough shows strong gluten at the first step without aalt yeast. after adding yeast and salt and kneading with mixer..i get a very weak dough. please advise.
Trying to get an idea of how long you let this ferment? After you do the first stretch and fold, you say “so our dough is ready.” Do you let it rise after the stretch and fold or just go right to the shaping?
So, how long bulk fermentation should take at room temperature? Don't I need to keep them in refrigerator overnight after room bulk fermentation? And I thought we should include olive oil. We dont have to? Please help
Hi, there. First of all - great and detailed recipe. Thank you. I have a quick question, actually two questions. 1) what if I am using a regular sourdough starter - should I use also 80 grams? And 2) My dough have a lower protein percentage (11%). I guess this means less hydration, i.e. less grams of water?
Thank you for the recipe. Stiff starter definitely has much more yeast, because my dough rised two times so high, but seems like 10 hours is too much for my conditions.
I think that is not a matter of stiff starter only but mainly is about the coefficient W of the flour meaning the resistance to gluten of the flour. The higher the W you have the longer fermentation of the dough you may have without any collapse of the dough.
Hi….I’m trying to make the stiff starter and am having such a difficult time storing it to get a thorough mix. Can I add more water in that ratio? Or do you have a trick to mix that 50 flour/25 water ratio? Thanks.
You should add as much water as you need to get it to stir. Not too much, but if you need to up the h2o a little, that’s ok. Also, best stirrer is a chopstick
I have a quick question about the yeast... At around 5:50 you *say* that you used 1% or 4 grams yeast, yet on your chart you list 0.1% and 0.4 grams, which is a huge difference... For clarification purposes, did you use 4 grams or not quite half of one gram (being 0.4 grams)?
This looks excellent! Have you managed to formulate a sourdough pita recipe? I am always slightly disappointed in mine (the top layer is always quite thin!) and I wondered if you have had any more success?
Could I request a French country style bread? When I was in Grenoble for 6 months, I used to buy a "Pays" loaf from the bakers by my work every day for lunch. It was quite a mild sourdough with a soft, chewy crust, but I've not been able to find anything similar since?
Gooden aben mine Friend I absolutely love your teachings. I have been baking different types of breads now for about a year. There are many many people with many videos but it seems like I always come back to watching your videos. I wanted to say thank you Also my son Tanner Is currently stationed in vil sec Germany.. I myself was stationed in bamberg germany for 4years leaving in 1984. I don't know what city you live in in Germany. Me but maybe you could say Hi to my son make contact with me? It would be great to hear from you. Gordon todd
Instead of pouring hot water into an open tray, try adding mass and surface areas to the tray with cutlery or sauna stones. Heat that together and then pour the hot water, that's steam :)
Looks amazing! Question: where do you get that high protein flour in Germany? Is it available in supermarkets like Kaufland or should I go to a special shop or order online?
Thanks! Great question. Nope - unfortunately not. That flour I get in Italy (linked in description). But, with the stiff starter you can use a default one from Kaufland T550. Some are labeled as "Extra Backstark". That will also work nicely. If you want a strong taste, then you need to get a flour with more protein. That way you can ferment longer without it breaking down.
@@the_bread_code thank you! Just saw the link. And I now realised I might actually be able to use the Italian pizza flour I bought a while ago from an Italian shop! :D
I found these baking comparisons among the most informative! I bake both wild yeast and dry yeast breads, and I also bake hybrids of both. Taste wise, after fermenting at least 18-24 hrs for each, the hybrid is the best combination in my opinion. I will try whole wheat next. King Arthur makes white whole wheat as well as regular whole wheat - I have both and will try them.
I have been using a ph-meter for a couple of weeks for my sourdough loafs. Could you please tell me what ph should the ciabatta dough have when fermentation is at the ideal point?
I'm a bit confused. Seems like the recipe for sourdough ciabatta is not much different than sourdough bread. So is the only difference the shape of the loaf?
Do you think it can be interesting to not keep a starter But instead use the portion of dough that you separate to mesure volume increase, as a "stiff starter" for the next bake after feeding it ? If I remember right, foodgeek did an experiment on salt in starter, and it didn't seem to change anything significantly
It looks like you are using Caputo Cucuo, are you not? That one is 13 %, not 12, at least where I get it. I use it for pizza, with great results. Love that you made a whole wheat version as well! It also would had been interesting if you let the commercial yeast dough sit in the fridge for a couple of days, and then did the taste test of the longer fermented ciabatta. (And maybe mixing both wild [sourdough] and commercial yeasts together and do a long fridge ferment is the way to go to maximize flavor? I don't know, as I haven't tried.)
The autolysis confuses me. I've been binging your videos on sourdoughs, sometimes you recommend an autolysis and sometimes you say it's too much. Is there a way to figure out when it's needed and when it's not?
@The Bread Code, you never really answered @Brewster Brownville's question. "After you do the first stretch and fold, you say “so our dough is ready.” Do you let it rise after the stretch and fold or just go right to the shaping?" I would appreciate it if you could clear that up. By the way, thank you for all the effort you put into these videos. Phenomenal work!
Didn't you say in one of your videos on a stiff starter that you could replace yeast with a very stiff sourdough starter and make ciabatta? Did I hear you correctly? IF so, I'd like to see that experiment. I think I'll make a stiff starter levain and see how it changes the flavor of my sourdough.
Gluten Tag Kollege 👋 wäre es vielleicht möglich, ein kompaktes Video über bakers math zu machen? Das würde ich persönlich sehr interessant finden, weil es den einen oder anderen höchstwahrscheinlich experimentierfreudiger machen würde. Mich eingeschlossen💪ich weiß das du das teilweise in jedem Video ansprichst... dennoch würde es nicht schaden ein separates Video zu machen 😎🖖
@@the_bread_code ok, I will. Usually I feed it with rye, semolina and whole wheat, that's because my starter love that way. Today fed it with 60% water , it looks better, can see it raised maybe 10% in 10 hours, it's 16 C, winter in Brazil. Will give you another update after baking a bread on Thursday. Thanks.
@@ktyty1244 I also tried this stiff starter and mine basically makes a stiff dough ball, even after several feedings. It was a bit hard to handle and to incorporate into the main dough, but I still baked an amazing sourdough bread. Mine also barely increased but I still used it after like 8 hours. Once I incorporated it into the main dough it made the main dough double in size super quick. Fyi I only use rye flour for my starter. Just yesterday I saw another UA-cam video where a guy scores his stiff starter after feeding it, maybe this helps a bit so the starter has somewhere to grow to, like with baking sourdough bread, not really sure what the purpose was for this.
Gluten Morgen, ich habe deinen Kanal eben entdeckt und finde deine Videos toll. Mir, als Deutsche würde es natürlich besser gefallen, wenn ich nicht diese gruselige Übersetzung benutzen müsste 😏 So, genug gesabbelt, muss in die Küche, stretch and fold wartet.😜
5:24 To one or naught point one, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the dough to suffer the rise and fails of outrages yeasting... Tis fortunate I have a pocket scales like yours. I have two different whole wheat flours in my kitchen, the Pastry is between 9 and 11% protein - the latest bag is nigh on 9 based on how it works - and the other is 14%. Both make excellent sourdough in different ways. You may want to look for whole wheat pastry flour.
make a brick oven, you can make like 5 loafs (or more depending on the size of the oven) simultaneously and it turns out great, you can also make amazing pizza
Isn’t Ciabatta supposed to be with olive oil? Otherwise the recipe is the same as your normal bread, isn’t it? Also: There is probably exactly one speed setting you are supposed to use on your stand mixer if you are using the dough hook. Mine says that I have to use the second setting, I guess too slow and it is hard for the motor and too fast… well, you saw what happens!
Here in Italy, ciabatta is with no oil. You can find different ciabatta depending on the baker you buy it , but with no substantial differences. Elena, Italy
Great question Jochen. Like Elena said. There is no difference in terms of ingredients. It's a milder taste from the sourdough and a more extensible dough. Then the way how it's shaped means you have a bigger surface area and thus more crust :-)
@@the_bread_code As far as I know, Ciabatta means "slippers" (therefore the shape) and was created by an Italian baker in the early 1980s to compete with popular French baguettes. I love sourdough and ciabatta, so am excited to try baking ciabatta with sourdough starter! Thank you Hendrick for this recipe.
Henrik, thanks again for this Ciabaata recipe and method! Would you please consider a sourdough Beignet recipe in a future experiment? P S. GREAT VISUAL AIDS!
As always, I appreciate your videos, but I would have liked a bit better explanation, up front, as to what makes a ciabatta different than a typical sourdough bread and why you're using a stiff starter and how a stiff starter behaves differently compared to the usual 100% saturation starter. As I look at the video I'm just not seeing what's really different from my usual sourdough bread.
Hallo Hendrick, as a Landsmann, let me say auf gut Deutsch, Sch.......se. The bread turned out flat and wet. i put it in the oven anyway and received two flat boards like hard wood. I noticed that your sourdough loafs dough looked very white to me and not kind of a grey cement color look of my dough. I followed your measurements exactly, but it just didn't turn out good at all.
Hendrik, in your WW Ciabatta recipe, you noted no autolyse. Why? This doesn’t make sense as WW flour has the entire berry which includes the bran and therefore requires more effort to develop the gluten. If you don’t believe me, check Kristen’s “How to Make a 100% Whole Wheat Sourdough Bread” video; you will see she performs a 2-hour minimum autolyse and mentions she has gone as far as 4-5 hours with no adverse effect. Here’s the link to her video: ua-cam.com/video/8BvoEWDNRfs/v-deo.html May the gluten be with you! Cheers!
Gluten Abend! Great question. You are right on the gluten development part. One additional note is that the whole wheat contains a lot more enzymes as they are the first parts of the grain that get into contact with water. When doing the autolysis I personally very often have overfermented my breads. Only after skipping the autolysis my whole wheat breads have become a lot better. It might depend on your flour too, but it helped me tremendously. I hope this makes sense!
Note to SELF: Remeber that i have a tooth situation when i eat carbs it becomes filled with PAIN. Not French for Bread. p a i n english for OUCH! Why did I do that! I know better! Just because people seem to be happy and healthy eating bread doesnt mean I can. Remember Where Your Ship is Sailing Teresa. God i wish i could eat ciabatta God i want to eat it right now! Ok I remember I remember. I am oK with protein and fasting . It's only temporary. And if it isnt then i get to be thin which is a pleasure that will last all day long. OH you Bread people ! Make me Envious and ..No never mind ...Maybe its a Perfect Thing After All. Must Be a Way OUT of self torture. Go watch carnivore youtube videos .
What is great about ciabatta is that it is very forgiving. If it comes out flat of the oven, it’s fine! No one will joke about your “oven spring” or your fancy scoring.
Hahah. So true.
Tmm
I was just watching an elderly Italian guy making open crumb ciabatta. Ne mixed his ingredients with a fork, Keaded it a little bit on a board by rolling the gooey sticky mass around a little till he thought it was properly incorporated and mixed then plopped it in an oiled covered container for an hour (yah one hour). And then he shaped his dough into loaves and put them on parchment and then DIRECTLY into a 450F oven (no stone or steel, just a sheet pan) and in 20 minutes he had nice open crumb ciabatta.
No Biga, no poolish, no overnight, no autolyse, no stretch and fold every 30 minutes none of that at all. Took him maybe an hour and forty minutes start to finish and he was done with baked loaves on the counter.
@@fortnite88146 why would either be "better"?
I've used your method twice now and have had great results. I've always had a hard time with ciabatta, but the way you break all the steps down, it really helps with getting the right consistency for the loaf to hold shape and not spread. Thank you.
Yes defenatly. When i bake yeast bread i use 1-2 gram yeast in a 1000g flour dough. I always nake poolish and take 400g flour/400g water from to total ammount if flour. I fernent it in fridge gor 24 hours, mix the dough and let this dough ferment another 12 hours. I am very happy with the result
How much water did you use?
Wow, finding episodes I somehow missed before. Great video. I realized how much I've been using sourdough when I made my first yeast bread in two years...it was amazing how much faster it rose, but I do think the sourdough has a better flavor. Nice to know both I guess.
Thanks for the video and recipe.
1. You mentioned that stiff starter has reduced sour flavor. Have you changed your mind about the more liquid starter for more yoghurty flavor?
2. I have found the so called Danish Whisk to result in much less waste compared to using my hands. I use the whisk until the dough releases from the wire whisk. It initially forms a big ball but in a few minutes it releases making cleanup much easier, quicker & with much less waste than using my hand. It also seems more sanitary to on-lookers.
Try it; I think you'll like it.
Thanks again for your dedication and sourdough testing.
When I do a yeast bread, instead of just putting the yeast fresh of the package into the dough, I do a preferment (like an poolish) of yeast (14g per 1Kg of flour) water (85%) and flour (200g of rye) that I age in the fridge for 24 hours and then combine with the autolist flour and water. It gives a nice crumb and dark brown exterior
That's a great idea too!
Yeah, me too, was about to comment the same. You can just exchange the starter amount by yeast-based "starter". It also improves the quality of the bread.
This is good to know…something to keep in the repertoire
Way too much yeast. You are just killing the great taste taste that way trust me. If you put a small amount of yeast you are basicaly making a sourdough taste.
@@ironpaiste I tried, but with less yeast what tends to happen is that the final loaf ends up being pretty flat.
I'm dropping the idea of making my own sourdough starter for good after watching this video.. Thanks.
Hi Hendrick! I wanted to make sourdough ciabatta so bad, so my first attempt was with The FoodGeek's, (Sune) recipe.
It seemed to go rather well, until I proportioned it for the ciabatta pieces. The starter was active, the kneading showed good gluten development, (windowpane), doubling fermentation, went very well, but when I went to separate into portions, the gluten strands completely collapsed. I ate it anyway. The crumb looked decent. Not sure it was the flour or too much water. I am at a loss of what I screwed up. I am 75, maybe a Senior moment. Love your videos!!
Did you overwork the portions? Ive been there with loaves, perfect leavening then when portioning it just falls apart
Because i went too crazy with the shaping
I mixed 2kilos of flour last Saturday at +80% hydration for ciabatta. Came out great.
Do you remember which flour you have been using? I really prefer a lower gluten flour for a Ciabatta :-). It helps to make a softer dough.
@@the_bread_code yes it’s a type 85 high protein flour, 13.5% from Cairnsprings mill. I used my 48% hydrated starter at 20% giving stretch and folds every 20 minutes or so. After 5 hrs of bulk I divided the dough and with no real shaping put them on linen for the remaining 3-4 hours, then parchment and into the oven. No autolysis, baked hot with steam for 15 minutes and then 15 more without.. Crust is soft and the crumb is soft, open and moist. We had company yesterday and I received compliments.
I would love it if you did a video on sourdough ryes and/or mixed grain using whole rye flour and perhaps white rye as well.
Oh wow. This worked so damn well. Thank you for the introduction to making my first ciabatta!!! It was incredible! Thank you so much!!!
I am so excited about this…..I have been waiting anxiously for you to come up with a sourdough ciabatta recipe Woo hoo ….I have tried several different recipes for sourdough ciabatta and none of then turned out….and since I have so much luck with your other recipes I am very happy about this one
Thank you for continually sharing your extensive knowledge ….I for one absolutely appreciate it
Keep baking
Merryn
I really appreciate you creating and sharing this experiment. I LOVE Cibattas. The recipe I have used in the past from America's Test Kitchen ferments the conventional yeast overnight. I can't wait to try your sourdough ciabaata recipe!!🙂
Thank you! With the stiff starter it's very easy :-)
I use the ATK recipe as well. When they have you ferment the flour and water and yeast overnight, is that the same as the autolyse?
Can you please mention how long you needed in the stand mixer. Thank you
Your Whole wheat looked amazing... Thanks
I love your hardworking Taste Tester 😍
My question is that the timing is not clear. After inoculation, it appears that you tested to make sure they doubled in size, but after the first fold, how much time until shaping? It is unclear. Is there one fold, or more than one fold. Are you doing it based on time or sample rise?
Sorry! I recommend to fold whenever you see that your dough flattened out quite a lot. That can be once, twice, or 3 times.
This is off topic but I tried out a sourdough with cannabis. The results seem decent. I just used ABV (already been vaped) material... So the effects are very mellow. In fact, I tried a few slices and then I woke up and it was the next day... Best sleep I had in a while.
Next I will have to try with some fresh, green cannabis. However it will be better to use cannabis infused coconut oil... I have always made cupcakes or brownies, but that was in my pre-sourdough days... using baking soda and eggs or egg substitute. Now that your videos upgraded me to boss level sourdough I will see how my pot cupcakes cakes will do with sour leaven
Thank you, thank you, thank you!! Exactly what I was looking for….A whole wheat Chiabatta 😋
I made ciabattas few days ago and basically I done the same with just one difference- I chilled the dough in the fridge overnight before shaping, so it was easier to handle 👍
Great idea too!
@@the_bread_code they were amazing 😍and unbelievably easy to make, You saw them 😄
Thanks for the frig idea. I just started Chef John’s ciabatta today to bake tomorrow and it’s already doubled. I wanted to compare the sourdough to it.
Just had lunch using a hybrid of the sourdough and whole wheat bonus: equal parts bread and whole wheat. So very, very yummy. Great chew, beautiful crumb and crispy crust! Thanks for all the ideas😊
Hello!
Love your videos! How many hours before I mix the dough should I be feeding my stiff starter?
I'd give it least 6- you want to make sure it has time to at least double.
What is that pretty bosch mixer you are using? Thanks from Budapest
You had me at Gluten Tag
🤣
I love to bake this recipe soon but I how do I make sour dough starter or is it the same as with yeast? Thank you
great video! how about experimenting further and preparing a sourdough and yeast ciabatta that has some whole wheat? In my experience adding a tiny bit of yeast to sourdough gives good and very consistent results and part whole wheat gives wonderful flavors but it is easy to handle
Thank you! Yep. Adding a bit of dry yeast works wonders too when making a sourdough version. Although these days I really have started to enjoy my stiff starter a lot. It allows me to make almost every recipe :-)
At long last, I've been patiently awaiting this one.
As always great video. Definitely have to try ciabatta…this weekend made a sandwich loaf…turned out nice…really wanted bread for grilled cheese! 😍
I would love to see a video on using vital wheat gluten to supplement weaker flours. What would happen if you had up to like 20% gluten? I'm curious to see what you would come up with and I'm surprised you have never used it!
I have used it at the beginning, quite a lot. But it's totally worth trying again hehe.
Is that an option? I can’t easily find high protein flour here. That could help me a lot!
That would be a great video ! Here in Brazil, we don't have strong flour like yours in Europe.
Yes! It'd be awesome if you could test that! =)
Dr Gluten, did I understand it correctly, knead the dough (yeast) in the standmixer till its gets loose from the edge? How many minutes did it approximately take? Tnx! Love from the Netherlands
My pleasure! Around 10 minutes on medium/high speed :-)
@@the_bread_code Tnxxx a lot!! You have such a great UA-cam channel!
@@the_bread_code how long did you mix the sourdough version, the same as the yeast ones?
I usually make yeast bread, but I also add milk-based preferment for the added flavor, autolyse, and use a Japanese roux to start the bread as well. It took me years to develop my bread recipe. I want better flour though. You're lucky to live in Germany. You can easily source good flour.
hi can u show how u knead...my dough shows strong gluten at the first step without aalt yeast. after adding yeast and salt and kneading with mixer..i get a very weak dough. please advise.
Trying to get an idea of how long you let this ferment? After you do the first stretch and fold, you say “so our dough is ready.” Do you let it rise after the stretch and fold or just go right to the shaping?
It was around 10 hours at room temperature. With the yeast based one you can control the speed by changing the amount of yeast that you use.
So, how long bulk fermentation should take at room temperature?
Don't I need to keep them in refrigerator overnight after room bulk fermentation?
And I thought we should include olive oil. We dont have to?
Please help
Hi, there. First of all - great and detailed recipe. Thank you. I have a quick question, actually two questions. 1) what if I am using a regular sourdough starter - should I use also 80 grams? And 2) My dough have a lower protein percentage (11%). I guess this means less hydration, i.e. less grams of water?
Thank you for the recipe. Stiff starter definitely has much more yeast, because my dough rised two times so high, but seems like 10 hours is too much for my conditions.
Amazing. So, a 12g protein flour can be used for a long fermentation? I thought it can’t handle it.
Stiff starter 🙏🏻. Then it works 👍
I think that is not a matter of stiff starter only but mainly is about the coefficient W of the flour meaning the resistance to gluten of the flour. The higher the W you have the longer fermentation of the dough you may have without any collapse of the dough.
@@the_bread_code I’ll try. Thanks.
Wonderful! Love your videos. Will definitely bake.
Hi….I’m trying to make the stiff starter and am having such a difficult time storing it to get a thorough mix. Can I add more water in that ratio? Or do you have a trick to mix that 50 flour/25 water ratio? Thanks.
You should add as much water as you need to get it to stir. Not too much, but if you need to up the h2o a little, that’s ok.
Also, best stirrer is a chopstick
I have a quick question about the yeast... At around 5:50 you *say* that you used 1% or 4 grams yeast, yet on your chart you list 0.1% and 0.4 grams, which is a huge difference... For clarification purposes, did you use 4 grams or not quite half of one gram (being 0.4 grams)?
Sorry. It's 0.1%. 1% would be way too much 😅
This looks excellent! Have you managed to formulate a sourdough pita recipe? I am always slightly disappointed in mine (the top layer is always quite thin!) and I wondered if you have had any more success?
Thank you! Not yet. I took a note :-)
@@the_bread_code no force/ area 😁
Could I request a French country style bread? When I was in Grenoble for 6 months, I used to buy a "Pays" loaf from the bakers by my work every day for lunch. It was quite a mild sourdough with a soft, chewy crust, but I've not been able to find anything similar since?
Thanks! I took a note!
Gooden aben mine Friend
I absolutely love your teachings. I have been baking different types of breads now for about a year. There are many many people with many videos but it seems like I always come back to watching your videos. I wanted to say thank you
Also my son Tanner Is currently stationed in vil sec Germany.. I myself was stationed in bamberg germany for 4years leaving in 1984.
I don't know what city you live in in Germany. Me but maybe you could say Hi to my son make contact with me? It would be great to hear from you. Gordon todd
Instead of pouring hot water into an open tray, try adding mass and surface areas to the tray with cutlery or sauna stones. Heat that together and then pour the hot water, that's steam :)
Looks amazing!
Question: where do you get that high protein flour in Germany? Is it available in supermarkets like Kaufland or should I go to a special shop or order online?
Thanks! Great question. Nope - unfortunately not. That flour I get in Italy (linked in description). But, with the stiff starter you can use a default one from Kaufland T550. Some are labeled as "Extra Backstark". That will also work nicely. If you want a strong taste, then you need to get a flour with more protein. That way you can ferment longer without it breaking down.
@@the_bread_code thank you! Just saw the link. And I now realised I might actually be able to use the Italian pizza flour I bought a while ago from an Italian shop! :D
Sir for saw er Doug how much floor and water
2mixing
How much flour
How much water
Yeast
And salt
Pls can you give resepi
I found these baking comparisons among the most informative! I bake both wild yeast and dry yeast breads, and I also bake hybrids of both. Taste wise, after fermenting at least 18-24 hrs for each, the hybrid is the best combination in my opinion. I will try whole wheat next. King Arthur makes white whole wheat as well as regular whole wheat - I have both and will try them.
Thoughts on whole wheat flour with the addition of vital wheat gluten?
That totally works!
Hahaha my dog definitely will prefer any sourdough and is obsessed so I think I know what’s going to happen!
Definitely!!
I am always giving first piece of new loaf to my dog Tadeo 👍
I have been using a ph-meter for a couple of weeks for my sourdough loafs. Could you please tell me what ph should the ciabatta dough have when fermentation is at the ideal point?
In my case with my starter the ideal pH is at around 4.2 for finishing bulk fermentation, proofing finished at around 4ish.
@@the_bread_code Danke :)
I'm a bit confused. Seems like the recipe for sourdough ciabatta is not much different than sourdough bread. So is the only difference the shape of the loaf?
Do you think it can be interesting to not keep a starter
But instead use the portion of dough that you separate to mesure volume increase, as a "stiff starter" for the next bake after feeding it ?
If I remember right, foodgeek did an experiment on salt in starter, and it didn't seem to change anything significantly
Yep. That would totally work!
It looks like you are using Caputo Cucuo, are you not? That one is 13 %, not 12, at least where I get it. I use it for pizza, with great results.
Love that you made a whole wheat version as well!
It also would had been interesting if you let the commercial yeast dough sit in the fridge for a couple of days, and then did the taste test of the longer fermented ciabatta. (And maybe mixing both wild [sourdough] and commercial yeasts together and do a long fridge ferment is the way to go to maximize flavor? I don't know, as I haven't tried.)
Did you say, "gluten-tag". If you did that's hilarious 😂 I watch you channel sporadically.
What are you doing with the remaining sourdough when u feed it?
Gluten Tag MW. I typically store it in a jar and make a delicious discard bread out of it from time to time. May the gluten be with you.
Tried to order flour but it says coupon has expired
Sorry Jan. That's fixed now!
@@the_bread_code 👍 thanks just ordered 15kg of whole wheat and Tipo 2 flour 😂😅
The autolysis confuses me. I've been binging your videos on sourdoughs, sometimes you recommend an autolysis and sometimes you say it's too much. Is there a way to figure out when it's needed and when it's not?
TLDW, I'd skip it and just use 10% of starter. It's an important process that happens when you ferment slowly too.
Check my comment on autolyse…
@The Bread Code, you never really answered @Brewster Brownville's question. "After you do the first stretch and fold, you say “so our dough is ready.” Do you let it rise after the stretch and fold or just go right to the shaping?" I would appreciate it if you could clear that up.
By the way, thank you for all the effort you put into these videos. Phenomenal work!
Didn't you say in one of your videos on a stiff starter that you could replace yeast with a very stiff sourdough starter and make ciabatta? Did I hear you correctly? IF so, I'd like to see that experiment. I think I'll make a stiff starter levain and see how it changes the flavor of my sourdough.
Yup :-). That totally works, that's what I did here. In the end the taste was very similar though to dry yeast haha.
Do you have a written version of this recipe?
Not yet unfortunately, sorry :-(
I see, u use caputo flour (cuoco), but it has 13% protein. I use this flour to make 🍕
Gluten Tag Kollege 👋 wäre es vielleicht möglich, ein kompaktes Video über bakers math zu machen? Das würde ich persönlich sehr interessant finden, weil es den einen oder anderen höchstwahrscheinlich experimentierfreudiger machen würde. Mich eingeschlossen💪ich weiß das du das teilweise in jedem Video ansprichst... dennoch würde es nicht schaden ein separates Video zu machen 😎🖖
How we love Berners!
Switched to stiff starter, but mine is hard (50%) and it doesn't look like is rising, very different from yours 🤔
Strange. But it can take a while. Have another look after 10 hours. Also maybe a few feedings are required. Please report back with updates!
@@the_bread_code ok, I will. Usually I feed it with rye, semolina and whole wheat, that's because my starter love that way. Today fed it with 60% water , it looks better, can see it raised maybe 10% in 10 hours, it's 16 C, winter in Brazil. Will give you another update after baking a bread on Thursday. Thanks.
@@ktyty1244 I also tried this stiff starter and mine basically makes a stiff dough ball, even after several feedings. It was a bit hard to handle and to incorporate into the main dough, but I still baked an amazing sourdough bread. Mine also barely increased but I still used it after like 8 hours. Once I incorporated it into the main dough it made the main dough double in size super quick. Fyi I only use rye flour for my starter. Just yesterday I saw another UA-cam video where a guy scores his stiff starter after feeding it, maybe this helps a bit so the starter has somewhere to grow to, like with baking sourdough bread, not really sure what the purpose was for this.
@@mr_sat1va Thanks Johann! Today fed just with white and wheat flour with 50% water and it is much better, believe the rye flour needs more water.
@@the_bread_code hi Hendrick, it worked beautifully; great oven spring, amazing smell, thank you so much for the tip !
Gluten Morgen, ich habe deinen Kanal eben entdeckt und finde deine Videos toll. Mir, als Deutsche würde es natürlich besser gefallen, wenn ich nicht diese gruselige Übersetzung benutzen müsste 😏 So, genug gesabbelt, muss in die Küche, stretch and fold wartet.😜
Why no olive oil added to dough?
Can be done too in case you like. Just add around 5-10% based on the flour :-)
After a relatively flat bake, plus watching this video, I have decided that my new stiff starter needs another week of regular feeding!
5:24 To one or naught point one, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the dough to suffer the rise and fails of outrages yeasting... Tis fortunate I have a pocket scales like yours.
I have two different whole wheat flours in my kitchen, the Pastry is between 9 and 11% protein - the latest bag is nigh on 9 based on how it works - and the other is 14%. Both make excellent sourdough in different ways. You may want to look for whole wheat pastry flour.
Einfach einen Poolish Vorteig (24 Stunden) mit der Hefe machen und dann schmeckt auch der Hefeteig lecker!
Today the unthinkable happened to me, the worst punishment for any home baker: my oven died. :-(
Oh noes :-(. Are you getting a steam based oven next?
Sorry for You loss ☹️RIP lovely oven
make a brick oven, you can make like 5 loafs (or more depending on the size of the oven) simultaneously and it turns out great, you can also make amazing pizza
@@tatogl2616 amazing idea but not everyone has enough space to do it ☹️
@@angelikaradominska5512 that is true sadly
Gluten tag! 😂🥰
Make more videos
Just subscribed
Isn’t Ciabatta supposed to be with olive oil? Otherwise the recipe is the same as your normal bread, isn’t it?
Also: There is probably exactly one speed setting you are supposed to use on your stand mixer if you are using the dough hook. Mine says that I have to use the second setting, I guess too slow and it is hard for the motor and too fast… well, you saw what happens!
Here in Italy, ciabatta is with no oil.
You can find different ciabatta depending on the baker you buy it , but with no substantial differences.
Elena, Italy
@@elenabello138 Interesting! How is ciabatta different from just a regular German wheat bread, then? Is it just the shape of it?
I don't know German breads ... ciabatta is crusty outside, quite flat , soft with open crumbs inside .
Great question Jochen. Like Elena said. There is no difference in terms of ingredients. It's a milder taste from the sourdough and a more extensible dough. Then the way how it's shaped means you have a bigger surface area and thus more crust :-)
@@the_bread_code As far as I know, Ciabatta means "slippers" (therefore the shape) and was created by an Italian baker in the early 1980s to compete with popular French baguettes. I love sourdough and ciabatta, so am excited to try baking ciabatta with sourdough starter! Thank you Hendrick for this recipe.
Henrik, thanks again for this Ciabaata recipe and method! Would you please consider a sourdough Beignet recipe in a future experiment? P S. GREAT VISUAL AIDS!
Sank you! Took a note!
As always, I appreciate your videos, but I would have liked a bit better explanation, up front, as to what makes a ciabatta different than a typical sourdough bread and why you're using a stiff starter and how a stiff starter behaves differently compared to the usual 100% saturation starter. As I look at the video I'm just not seeing what's really different from my usual sourdough bread.
Mostly the shaping technique. But great point there!
Hallo Hendrick, as a Landsmann, let me say auf gut Deutsch, Sch.......se. The bread turned out flat and wet. i put it in the oven anyway and received two flat boards like hard wood. I noticed that your sourdough loafs dough looked very white to me and not kind of a grey cement color look of my dough. I followed your measurements exactly, but it just didn't turn out good at all.
I though ciabatta had olive oil in it?
Focaccia has olive oil.
Hendrik, in your WW Ciabatta recipe, you noted no autolyse. Why? This doesn’t make sense as WW flour has the entire berry which includes the bran and therefore requires more effort to develop the gluten. If you don’t believe me, check Kristen’s “How to Make a 100% Whole Wheat Sourdough Bread” video; you will see she performs a 2-hour minimum autolyse and mentions she has gone as far as 4-5 hours with no adverse effect. Here’s the link to her video: ua-cam.com/video/8BvoEWDNRfs/v-deo.html
May the gluten be with you! Cheers!
Gluten Abend! Great question. You are right on the gluten development part. One additional note is that the whole wheat contains a lot more enzymes as they are the first parts of the grain that get into contact with water. When doing the autolysis I personally very often have overfermented my breads. Only after skipping the autolysis my whole wheat breads have become a lot better. It might depend on your flour too, but it helped me tremendously. I hope this makes sense!
Next recipe should be with some fruit infused in the sourdough
Noice 👌
First 😄
Zero 🤣
@@the_bread_code ? 🤣
@@angelikaradominska5512 I was number 0 haha.
“Oh gluten” 🤣🤣
I thought ciabatta had olive oil in it.... just to make it more difficult to make 🤣
Kein Mehl auf das Backpapier...überhaupt kein Backpapier sondern Hartweizengrieß als Trennmittel verwenden.
Note to SELF: Remeber that i have a tooth situation when i eat carbs it becomes filled with PAIN. Not French for Bread. p a i n english for OUCH! Why did I do that! I know better! Just because people seem to be happy and healthy eating bread doesnt mean I can. Remember Where Your Ship is Sailing Teresa. God i wish i could eat ciabatta God i want to eat it right now! Ok I remember I remember. I am oK with protein and fasting . It's only temporary. And if it isnt then i get to be thin which is a pleasure that will last all day long. OH you Bread people ! Make me Envious and ..No never mind ...Maybe its a Perfect Thing After All. Must Be a Way OUT of self torture. Go watch carnivore youtube videos .
GLUTENTAG......... You did not reply to my last question on your previous video so I won't waste my time sending another message !!!!!
Oh noes. Really? I typically filter by questions. Maybe there was no ? in the question. LOL. Let me check.